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Home My WebLink About730899.tiff BEFORE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WELD COUNTY, COLORADO THE SERVICE PLAN OF THE PROPOSED ) DACONO AREA FIRE PROTECTION ) REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE DISTRICT ) ) APPEARANCE S: MR. SAMUEL S. TELEP, Attorney at Law, 220 First National Bank Building, Greeley, Colorado, 80631, appearing as County Attorney for Board of County Commissioners, MR. LEONARD H. McCAIN, Attorney at Law, 601 4th Street, Fort Lupton, Colorado, 80621 , for the Town of Dacono, MR. THEODORE P. KOEBERLE, Attorney at Law, 1966 13th Street, Suite 230 , Boulder, Colorado, 80302, for the Town of Erie. Pursuant to Notice published in the Greeley Tribune and the Frederick Farmer and Miner on May 3 , 1973, May 10 , 1973, and May 17, 1973 , hearing on the above proposal was held in the Commissioner' s Office, second floor of the Weld County Courthouse at Greeley, Colorado, on Wednesday, May 30, 1973, at the hour of 1: 30 o' clock p.m. , before the Board of County Commissioners; Glenn K. Billings, chairman and Harry S. Ashley and Roy Moser, members of the Board. Keith W. Rusk Official Shorthand Reporter Greeley, Colorado 730899 MAY 30, 1973 CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : We call this hearing to order. Public hearing, Service Plan of Proposed Dacono Area Fire Protection District. Mr. Telep, will you make a record. MR. TELEP : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let the Record show that this cause came on for hearing today, May 30 , 1973, on the petition and application of the Dacono Volunteer Fire Department, Dacono, Colorado, for a pro- posed Dacono Area Fire Protection District, pursuant to Special District Control Act, Article 18, Chapter 89 , CRS 1963 as amended. Let the record further show that the hearing today has been duly advertised as required by law in the Greeley Tribune and in addition, although not required, in the Frederick Farmer and Miner on May 3, May 10, and May 17, 1973, respectively. Let the record still further show that there are in the file several reports indicating that the adjacent governmental taxing units within a three mile radius of the proposed Dacono Fire Protection District have been notified by certified mail of this hearing today, thus affording them an opportunity to be present to testify either in favor or against this proposed Dacono Area Fire Protection District. Let the record show that the petitioner is present and -2- reprsented by counsel , Mr. Leonard McCain. I believe, Mr. Chairman, with that we are ready to pro- ceed. I believe, perhaps, counsel or anyone he may wish to call will wish to testify in their behalf. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : All right. Mr. McCain. MR. McCAIN: Thank you. Mr. Telep, and Members of the Board, the Service Plan for the proposed Dacono Area Fire Protection District is a plan that has been submitted to the Board in writting and sets forth the requirements of the statute to which Mr. Telep has referred. By way of introduction, I would say to the Board that the area proposed is a land area of approximately three sections of ground at around nineteen thousand acres of land. It ex- tends, essentially it lies between the Town of Erie and the Town of Dacono, but it includes the Town of Dacono on the east and does not include the Town o£ Erie to the west. To the North lies the Longmont Fire Protection District and also to the east lies the Fort Lupton Fire Protection District and to the south and to the east lies the Brighton Fire Protection District. These districts are those which, over the years , have given service to this area. The area proposed is an area that does not have any fire protection service and there has been some efforts over the years to bring service into this area from other fire -3- protection districts, for example; Longmont, but it has been determined to do that would not be feasible for this area. To go in another direction, this area is a fast mushroom- ing area population-wise, growth-wise and these areas are too remote from the central area in Longmont or -- MR. ASHLEY: Who serves this area? MR. McCAIN: The Town of Erie. We have Mr. Rebel here, who is the president of the local Dacono Area detail , who will speak to, Mr. Ashley, and the Board, but my understanding is that the Longmont District comes within just a mile nad a half north of Erie. We will be approximately one mile nort of the Town of Erie and this proposed district would include the Town of Erie and therefore, this district would abut the Longmont District on the north. Essentially, that' s the introduction. Boulder County, of course, lies directly to the west of the west line of the town of Erie so we would abut this pro- tection district, it would abut the Boulder District line, also. MR. MOSER: Are Frederick and Firestone on the Longmont or Fort Lupton Fire District at this time or -- MR. McCAIN: No, at the present it' s on its own volunteer fire department and the Longmont district comes up to that. Well, it does include Frederick on the tri-county. MR. MOSER: Thank you. MR. McCAIN: Now, of course, any kind of finan- -4- cial problems that could be proposed in this service land, the population of that area would proximate two mills and it is proposed that a three mill level assessment could be made and that would raise approximtaely six thousand dollars , together with additional funds that are available, it does create a proposed working budget of around thirteen thousand eight hun- red dollars. The proposed district would enter into a pro- posal with the Town of Dacono to give service to the town and for that the town would promise to pay approximately three thousand dollars on an annual basis for this service. In addition to that there are other miscellaneous income, fund raising and so forth, which would bring approximately four thousand eight hundred dollars. Making a total budget of thirteen thousand eight hundred dollars. The funds would be raised as proposed, but the mill levee would be limited to three mills at this point. Of Course, the Board knows that the law does provide a larger mill levee could be placed on this, but this is not proposed in the foreseeable future and there would not be any more than the three mills, that would bring in six thousand dollars. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: What does the law allow for an increase in the mill levee? MR. McCAIN: I think up to five. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Up to five, anything within -5- the five mills. Then the fire district can not increase above this. MR. McCAIN: That' s correct, they are limited just to the five mills right now by statute, that' s all they can raise. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: That' s it? MR. McCAIN: Right. I think there is a bill in the legislature to make it seven mills, but in the Proposal it would not be any more than three mills, that doesn' t raise a great deal of money, of course, but hopefully, it will be increased in valuation in the years and will raise a few more dollars . By way of general information, this area, of course, is a well known prime development area and undoubtly it will development into a residential area. It is right now a prime mobile and modular home area and that will probably develop because in this area there is available water, which is not true of a lot of suburban areas and, hence, being in the Northern Colorado Water Conservancy District and could be eventually connected to the Tri-water District System. There is a nice amount of mountain water available and hopefully plentiful . This will create a rather extensive residential area and will be a nice place to live. It is a nice place to build a home and it also is a nice place to live and people are coming into that area at a greater -6- accleration. Essentially the construction o£, or the purchase of capital improvements, has already taken place. Not so much by this district that' s not created, but the Town of Dacono has into a lease-purchase agreement with the E & S Steel Building Company. They have purchased a turck for eighteen thousand dollars and it' s worth a good deal more, but it has a loan on a fire station, the lease-purchase agreement is in effect and gives the area a fire station with which to operate there fire fighting from. These premises will be lease back to the district and the district will actually be the operators of these partic- ular facilities, together with any other facilities that may be purchased over the years . There is a proposition to buy a thousand gallon emer- gency pumper fire truck and that constitutes about twenty- eight thousand dollars with an annual payment of approximately forty-five hundred dollars . This has not been purchased, of course. I might say that just on a voluntary basis, prior, following the drafting of this plan, the local Dacono Fire Protection District purchased, through a bid method from the Denver Fire Department, a pumper for the sum of twelve hundred dollars. I am advised that this was a tremendous buy, although -7- I know knowing about that kind of thing. But they give the winning bid and some of the gentlemen present at the hearing today signed personal notes for that truck. I know that this is not too material here, but it does show that just on their own they have accumulated capital improvements and capital equipment and these items will go right in and be owned by the district, because it is really the only feasible method of operating capital improvements like buildings and equipment. The district will be the owning entity and operating entity of the items such as that. There are long term propositions proposed on a possible number of substations in the southwest part of the district, but these directly based on a hypothetical plan_ This will be a type of operation that will have to be developed over the years. But, as I said, it does include a thirty-one section area between the Town of Dacono and the Town of Erie. In that area there are approximately two hundred -- twenty-five hundred people and around fifteen hundred in the Town of Dacono and the development of the Town of Dacono is just booming. There is one guy down there who doesn' t have enough sites so that he can sell his mobile homes and I think another plat has been filed. There is a boom there and the sewage district in the area has increased. The Town of Dacono is in the Tri-Area sewage going north and the facilities are -8- there for a rather substantial mushroom. Hopefully, it will be controlled and, hopefully, this district will be provided with the necessary fire protection. More at the point I'm raising, at the present time there is no adequate fire protection in that area. It simply does not have it. I just has a makeshift way right now, purely volun- tary with a very limited capacity to give service because, frankly, it is just not, has not enough funds and if this district is created, funds will began to be available for the funding of the district. Gentlemen, I think that essentially is the crux of the creation of the district. I think sometime back we had some preliminary discussion between the board and the planning commision of Weld County and there will be a filing in the District Court creating the dis- trict, essentially depending on this hearing and following this hearing the Board, under the statutes, has twenty days to make its finding, and then from that point the district is or is not, hopefully it is, would be created in the District Court and the Board of Directors named by the District Court would file their bond and funding as the taxing entity and create a budget under the Colorado Budget Law. That budget would take effect, would be created in September or October of this year, 1973, and would actually be assessed on valuation and would be taxed in 1974 . They would -9- collect the tax during 1974 . So, even if the district is created today or this month or next month, no funds would be made avail- able to the district until next year, when those tax funds come in. I have present with me several of the persons involved in the Dacono Volunteer Fire Department. The first one is Mr. Joe Rebel, he is seated next to me and he is the president of the Dacono area fire protection district. Next is Joe Fuss. Next to him is Bob Allender and Mr. Jim Stewart is the next gentleman and next Mr. LeRoy Johnston and the other gentleman is Mr. Gaylord Deum. These servicemen have appeared and they are taking part in this to prove that Dacono has a service plan that is reasonable and necessary to the area' s service and that there is a need for service in this area. These gentlemen, of course, are all volunteers and there will not be any paid salary positions in this Dacono Area Fire Protection District in the foreseeable future. Conceivably, the long term -- in other words, there could be an agreement in such a way that it would require paid services, but that' s not, doesn' t even seem feasible and does not seem to be nec- essary. I would like to call, if I may, Mr. Rebel just to kind of give the Board his general impressions of the purpose of the district, the necessity of it, how it would be developed to protect the whole community of Dacono and the surrounding area. -10- I would like to have Mr. Rebel make a few remarks along these lines , if he may. JOE REBEL Thank you. About a year and a half ago we felt the need of a fire protection district, in fact many people were surprised that there wasn' t one now. It has been the case in the past for the Town of Dacono to bear the cost of all the fire fighting for almost all the area that we have in this proposal, which gets to be quite a sum of money after awhile. Of course, we do have mutual aid pacts with other fire departments that we call them and they come and help us . If they call us we go help them, so mutual aid goes a long ways, too. But sixty percent of our fires in the past three years of been outside of the Town of Dacono. Now, we are certainly not going to turn anybody down that calls in a fire, this is not our way of doing it. We have never charged for a fire service call. We have never charged a penny to any one for a fire call. Now, with the idea of a fire protection district came up we feel that the tax payers of the area who are extended the service should take care of part o£ the costs and essentially, that' s why we started working on this district. I came, Mr. Steward and Mr. Fuss and myself came to the Board of Commissioners back in April of ' 72 for a preliminary -11- approval and at that time we didn' t have quite as much area, but the commissioners made us see the light that we needed more area. They didn' t want any open spaces in the southwest corner of Weld County. So, that was agreeable with us, it kind of scared us a little. But instead of twelve sections, I believe, we got thrity-one sections, which is fine. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: That doesn' t leave us with any area down there that isn' t covered by a fire dis- trict, does it? MR. REBEL: No, sir, it goes right up to the County line. And, of course, after you gave a preliminary approval, I appeared by myself before the Weld County Planning Board July 6, 1972 , and they approved the plan, for a pro- posal. That' s just about the history of the fire district, unless you have any questions. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: One question, probably none of our business, but certainly it would be something that you should look at. What type of a contractural agree- ment do you have with the Town of Dacono? Is it per capital or is it a one year contract or long term, can you see what I'm trying to get at? MR. REBEL: At the present time. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: What would happen, for instance, say, you form this district and you would basically -12- be serving Dacono, but the growth of Dacono is moving along at a pretty good rate, as you have indicated, and what would happend if the Town of Dacono suddenly decides it wants a fire district in just Dacono. Do you have some type of a long range program with the Town council in Dacono that it is going to be an existing contract, because looking here, well, you are getting three thousand dollars now and Dacono is based on a per capita situation that makes that three thou- sand and it could very well exceed the mill levee that you are getting outside of the area. I want to see this develop and not have something not work out with the town council of Dacono. I hope you have a long term contract where it is placed on a per capita of the residents within Dacono that you are going to take care of their protection. I hope you see what I am trying to get at. MR. REBEL: I thing it' s long term, we have half of the city council here right now. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: That' s pretty long term. MR. REBEL: Actually, the contract with the city is not on a long term basis. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: What happens, for instance, if the city council decides next year that they want their own fire truck within the city limits of Dacono. That would be the kind of think you wouldn't want. -13- MR. REBEL: It certainly is. MR. ASHLEY: Would you still get the mill levee from them? MR. REBEL: I really don' t have an answer. MR. McCAIN: They are in the district, the town is in the district and they would still get the mill levee. I think if they wanted to get out of the district, the court would have to permit it and it would be objected to, I 'm sure. There is a built in protection there, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Very good. MR. REBEL: Also, I believe, the town, under the three thousand dollars assessment would still be coming out ahead, provided the acquiring of a fire department is around five thousand dollars. MR. ASHLEY: So they would be getting a bargain. MR. REBEL: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: May I inquire again as to the assessment. This was based on population and is it going to increase as you go along? MR. McCAIN: It' s at a bare minimum figure. I e the future it would probably be increased as conditions warrant, right. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: That answers my question. -14- MR. MOSER: I might be out of order asking this question. Didn' t you say that Frederick and Firestone had their own town fire department? MR. REBEL: Yes . MR. MOSER: Would there be any chance or way of working out something to utilize their equipment with the proposed fire district here including Dacono? Like I said, it might be out of order, it was just a thought that occurred to me. MR. REBEL: I had a feeling you were going to ask that. MR. MOSER: All right. MR. REBEL: Let me go back a little bit in history. Part of us came to the Dacono area, we were out- casts. MR. MOSER: Well . MR. REBEL: I 'm not trying to be facetious, but the Frederick people didn' t like us newcomers and a number of us got a bad reception from Frederick. I see Mary Easton back there so I can' t get too rough. We thought of going to- gether with Frederick, which would have been the best way. MR. MOSER: Seems logical. MR. REBEL: But now, more and more, we are getting together. We still mutually help each other fire-wise . But we don' t go across the Mason-Dixie line there, Highway 52 . -15- MR. MOSER: Good enough. MR. REBEL: I don't know i£ that answers it or not. MR. MOSER: That ' s answer my question. MR. REBEL: Okay. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : Harry, do you have any questions? MR. ASHLEY: No, I think it' s a good idea. MR. TELEP: Gentlemen, I would like to make a further observation here. I would like the record to fur- ther show that there is in the file a resolution of the Weld County Planning Commission reacting favorably as for the ad- mission of this particular fire protection district. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : For the record, is there anyone in the room that would want to give testimony in favor of the granting of the application? MR. KOEBERLE: I guess I stood up too soon. I want to give some, but not necessarily in favor. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: All right. All those in favor of this application, raise your hands. Let the record show that there are six people present in favor of the grant- ing of this application. Is there anyone if the room that would like to give some testimony in regard to this application? MR. KOEBERLE: For the record, I am Ted -16- Koeberle and I represent a thousand and one hundred fifty people from Erie. We certainly are not against the application, we just would like to have some clarity on the boundaries pursuant to Chapter 139 of the Colorado Revised Statutes. Erie has gone forth on the kind of land use plan of incorporating an area of land around Erie, Colorado. I have this Comprehensive Plan here and this is one of the maps within that plan. I feel that perhaps the Board would like to be able to study this as it relates to what I have here for the Board. To go into the history of the fire protection district in the area; Erie first applied for a fire protection dis- trict in 1964 , approximately nine years ago. At that time it was recognized that there was a fire protection requirement in the area and we had essentially nothing. We had a 1942 model truck and that was about it. We wanted to spend forty-five thousand dollars to get a new fire truck and a fire house. That sum of money nine years ago frightened the people and was turned down. Since then we have been in the process of doing things right, or attempting to do them right and within the statutory require- ments . The first requirement, of course, is getting a Compre- hensive plan for the Erie area, which has finally been accom- plished in March of 1973, or approximately three months ago. -17- The area encompassed by the Comprehensive Plan will, if it is completed according to plan, an estimated population of approximately forty-eight thousand and there is no place in the plan which is more than three miles away from Erie. When we look on a geographical relationship between the towns of Erie and Dacono, or the tri-town area we find the demarcation line of interstate 25 . According to the fire protection plan we had before the Board we intended to divide that land north of 7 and south of 52 and -- west, pardon me, then east to interstate 25 and in an informal conversation with members- of other towns they felt they would be better off in servicing the area up to the interstate on the east side and we would better off servicing the area up on the west side. In practice that has been this way. When they were first called the people to the west of I-25, they would call us for assistence. Subsequent to all of this, of course, we became apprised of the area asked for instead and, of course, that is the reason I am here. We all feel both this Dacono area and the rural area adjacent to the town is covered by our fire protection district and I would ask that the Board consider the area as within the Comprehensive Plan as being an area that is probably with- in our fire protection district as has been filed with the District Court in Boulder County. In addition if the Board would consider favorably the -18- the possibility of this we must further state to the Board that we are presently actively negotiating with some people in sections 15 and 16 . I believe it' s 452 that runs east through this area right down to the interstate 25 and the interchange here. There are private parties involved in sections 15 and 16 , these two areas , which are negotiating a working agreement with us on a reciprocal basis of that they would provide more than their share of money for sewer and water facilities in order that we can have a mutual reciprocal agreement, so that we service this area, too. This is not in the plans because it has developed since March, ' 73. At this time we consider the demarcation line as being that shown within the Comprehensive Plan, plus 15 and 16. In the alterantive to that, of course, the land that we originally selected to be within our fire protection district and land between 7 and 52 , lying west of interstate 25 . Per- haps you would consider this when you do consider they would have many more miles to drive in order to give service to this area than we would have to. Still, it' s no more than three, or at the most four, miles in this corner from the fire house. To further state, we now own a new fire engine, a 1972 fire truck, as well as a ne fire house and we do have this at this time. Since we do serve this area anyway, we need funds -19- for additional engines and the best of apparatus and for back up equipment. Had we been aware of this at the time I feel we could have worked out a deal with Dacono for new boundaries and we bring this to the Borad' s consideration and Dacono' s consideration of forming new boundaries over here at interstate 25 . CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Mr. Lorenson, are you familiar with this Comprehensive plan and have you worked it out with the County Planning Commission? MR. LORENSON: Yes , sir, I am familiar with the plan, I have summoned Mr. Jones to come over and the Town Board of Erie approved this approximately two months ago, March of this year. The Town Board had Ray and Asso- ciates who did it and we are fully familiar with the Com- prehensive Plan and this is not a plan that we have prepared for the year or as much or modest and I think the Plan covers an area of twenty some square miles, approximately, around twenty, and it was done by a Boulder firm, as I have indi- cated, and Mr. Jones was there most of the time at most of their meetings and was familiar with it step by step as they were going through the plan. The plan has never been pre- sented to the Weld County Planning Commission or to the Larimer-Weld Regional Planning Commission, nor to this Board for approval . And since it includes County jurisdiction, there is some question in my mind whether it has validity. -20- But, I 'm not questioning the goodness or whether the plan is good or bad, I'm just saying that legally it' s my understanding, it would seem to me that it would have to come before the Weld County Planning Commission and work it through like Windsor did and Greeley and et cetra. And when the Planning Commission did take its action it was taken on July the 6th, 1972 , and no plan at that existed for the Town of Erie. They had the one done by Ray and Associates, but this started just since the first of this year. MR. KOEBERLE : Basically, it was still working on the facets o£ it and it was not final and before we could bring it before the County we wanted to get it completed for its approval or disapproval by the Weld County Planning Commission. We did take at the last minute a plan before the Planning Commission and we did give a detailed indication of what possibly the plan would contain and detailed some of the information to the Planning Commission indicating possibly some different direction to go. At any rate, at the conclusion of the meeting it was the determination of the Planning Commission concerning the new information that it was possibly the best to form the district without any change in recommendations and that if there were adjustments to be made they could be made after the district was formed. -21- CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : We do have other infor- mation given by the Planning Commission that it generally decided to present it, unless there was a strong desire to do so. MR. LORENSON: I believe Mr. Jones just came in. He is the one that attended the Erie meetings and has sat with them through the formation of their Comprehensive Plan, although he had no part, he is aware of everything, generally, that has went on and if you want any information from him, that' s why he is here. MR. ASHLEY: What land area are you talking about, you aren' t going to leave a strip over here, are you? MR. KOEBERLE : The question is what land are we considering? MR. ASHLEY: What land are we leaving if we are talking about a land use plan. MR. KOEBERLE : We first considered going from I-25 to the east and south to 7 and north to 52 and taking it across 287 . This amounted to too many square miles and too much future potential population, which could amount to two hundred thousand. We did consider the nature of the statement and I went to work with the various com- mittees and we have to have their agreement before we could proceed. However, we do at this time realize the private persons who we were working together with in sections 15 and -22- 16 . So the answer to the question is, yes , we are leaving it as beyond the area of where the town would be urbanized and develop services for, however, from the standpoint of the fire protection district it would be a hiatus area, but we would be serving the people with fire protection and yet they are not within a district. That' the reason our primary con- sideration was to carry it to a logical point to where we could get to most reaily with our equipment and which we could get into with any equipment quickly and we wanted to service them and that' s the reason we are asking for the boundaries to be changed and come out with the possible boundaries of our district as being 7 on the south and 52 on the north and I-25 on the east. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : Maybe I can ask you this question if whether the town council on this area realizes or whether they don' t realize that they have crossed jurisdic- tion boundaries by negotiating with DRCOG out of Denver and yet the area you are talking about falls in the jurisdiction of the Larimer-Weld Planning Commission, or regional govern- ment and since they have gone this route that certain DRCOG has no jurisdiction inside of Weld County. Certainly the town could not answer and if DRCOG has the jurisdiction we would leave it up to them. However, we didn' t consider DRCOG when we were talking about a fire protection district. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : I wonder if it' s fair -23- to state that because the governor did by proclamation desig- nate the twelve regions within the state and that jurisdic- tion of those regions, and by newspapaer article, I understand that Erie is contained somewhere or another with DRCOG and certainly they have no jurisdiction or authority with region two. MR. KOEBERLE: That' s under the DRCOG, I believe, but it didn't pertain with regard to a fire protection district. We were strictly adopting it on a population and tax basis, which would give us and the fire district we were considering these people who wee have been serving for the last several generations. MR. ASHLEY: Could you show me on this map where you want to divide this area. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: You are cutting it off right down I-25 , that' s what you proposed, I assume . MR. KOEBERLE: Yes, what I said originally was the original plan was everything west of I-25 and north of Colorado 7 and South of 52 . This is the area in here. At the most that area would be bounded here by section 17 on the west side, west side of 16 , east side of 17 , which- ever the Board would feel most appropriate. MR. MOSER: You including approximately six- teen or seventeen sections of ground in your protection dis- trict. -24- MR. KOEBERLE: Yes. This area is -- MR. MOSER: Why is it not your proposal that you-- MR. KOEBERLE: It' s up to the Board of the Town of Dacono to have this or for us to have it. What we are asking is anything within two miles of anywhere in our area and if the Board would take us even over to 25 we are ready to take it. Our original plan was to cover anything within four miles of our firehouse and, of course, that would be eight or nine miles or ten or twelve miles from Dacono and we would be the logical community to serve this. MR. ASHLEY: What is the legal part this plays, Sam, in changing a boundary at this point? MR. TELEP: This is the district hearing and certainly some other people would have something to say. MR. ASHLEY: I mean to start -- MR. TELEP: If you should react favorably to it, the District Court, then the Town of Erie can go to the District Court and there will be another hearing. I think you should hear some of these other people. MR. ASHLEY: Then it should be decided on this plan. MR. McCAIN: What did you say, you have committed a filing on behalf of the district? MR. KOEBERLE: Yes. -25- MR. McCAIN: For creation of a fire district? MR. KOEBERLE: Yes. MR. McCAIN: You don' t have a finalization of that though? MR. KOEBERLE: No. I don' t think there should be an completion until we all agree on our boundaries. MR. McCAIN: Then if -- in other words, if the district were accepted just as it is for all of this area, except for the Town of Erie, then your district would not, or could not, as a matter of law, incorporate that area, is that correct? MR. KOEBERLE: That' s the reason I 'm here, to see to it to work something out, if possible. MR. McCAIN: My other question is, you are aware, are you not, that people can detach themselves from a district? MR. KOEBERLE: Yes. MR. McCAIN: There is a legal process of law to do that, if they choose to and the Board permits it, I'm sure it would tkae their permission. MR. KOEBERLE: Yes. MR. McCAIN: What do you think the people should recommend here? MR. KOEBERLE: We would prefer, since -- well, first of all, look at the entire picture of southwest Weld -26- County. We are under the impression thatthe Board and the Court would prefer that the fire protection district be formed so it would not have any hiatus and not overlap any areas . Therefore, we are better off with the people proposing a district we could agree on the boundaries which would not leave any hiatus area. That' s why we are here today to ask the blessing of the Board and the approval of the Dacono people to have I-25 as being the boundary line between Erie and Dacono, district boundaries . Or in the alternative to let that area that we are actively working in be the boundary, one or the other. If you want more land, than we will take less; if you would rather not service this area and in order that there be no hiatus area left, we' ll take more, but all of the area is closer to us than it is to you. MR. McCAIN: Did you present a petition for a creation of a district, as you said, it was in Boulder County? MR. KOEBEREE: Yes. MR. McCAIN: Does it include all of the area west of I-25? MR. KOEBERLE: No, it does not. What our present petition encompasses is the area within our Compre- hensive land use plan. What we are offering today is if you want to make a boundary available for both communities , -27- that we change our petition to take that which you prefer not to have. In any event, the area that is within our planned area plus, o£ course, 15 and 16. We want to work together with you. And, of course , we all know that acres means tax base and we all need that. The big thing is, who can serve a given area best. We feel that where our responsibilities ly our respective of town responsibilities . MR. REBEL: May I speak. I don 't know where you were when we first started, but originally we only asked the Commissioner for the areas east of I-25, which is four miles east, four miles north and bordering the Fort Lupton fire district and the Longmont fire district and the Com- missioners said to us we want to ake all of southwest Weld County so we will have no open areas . Well, in our think- ing we wanted the district badly enough not to get particularly more tax money, but to get some tax money because we weren' t getting any. MR. KOEBERLE: Neither are we. MR. REBEL: Now, we have dealt with Longmont a long time ago and the fire distrcit attorney then, I believe, a member of their board of directors, but after we had the district formed if we could take some of their area. In other words, come right up to the city limits, and this is hearsay, I know, we would like to eventually have the area -28 - of the Longmont district close to our firehouse because we can service it better and we never have called on them. All they, they would call for assistence, I 'm not saying they don' t go to fires. MR. KOEBERLE: Right. MR. REBEL: Like, I think it' s the thinking of all the guys here from Dacono, is we would like to form the district really and work with you people on letting you have whatever you need in your area and we can work with Long- mont to get some of their area. I mean something like this can hold up a fire district and I know all of the guys here, we had the understanding that in one area the fire truck would not go out of the city limits, but this is hearsay, also. (Mixed talking by many people, unable to report, was not repeated. ) MR. TELEP : For the record, we would like to know who is going to talk. Let the record reflect that Mr. Joe Rebel is doing the talking at the present time. MR. REBEL: But I'm sure we can work it out with, the facts, with you and give you some of the area and we can get some of Longmont' s area. It' s more sensible for us that we answer most of the calls in the Longmont area. MR. KOEBERLE: Right. MR. REBEL: They have to come twelve miles and it' s not feasible for them to answer them. -29- MR. KOEBERLE: Right. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: It looks to me that it' s actually premature from your request from the area that the city was unable to form a fire district and the Dacono people have in this, have had this proposal in for a year and a half or two years and if we review this and decide to at this time it would be an area consisting of 3, 6, 9, 12 , 15, 16, 17, approximately 17 sections that wouldn't be served and I'm just throwing this out, but here again the way it looks to me the, you should go ahead with Erie with their proposed fire district and the one that is proposed by Dacono and have it approved at this time and when you do get your fire district drawn up, then work with Dacono and Dacono work with Longmont to establish a nucleus or center area for each fire district. But at this time the sections we are concerned with in the first meeting were these in the general area around Erie. There wasn' t any protection there at all. Under the statutes you can work together and divide this district up at a latter date, it looks to me. At this time that would be the best way to go. I also think that along that same line this district plan of yours that hasn' t been adopted by the regional planning commission or by this board needs to be brought before these bodies because I can see a problem with Erie being limited on Federal funds. MR. KOEBERLE: I have a few things to point -30- out at this time. The first one is regarding prematurity. I have the original petition here and it was filed September 2, 1964 . This is how long we have been involved in the fire protection district. The second point is we are under the impression that we are bound by CRS 139-59-8, which does require master land use planning by the State. The next point is that we don' t think there will be any delay between the three towns in so far as the formation of the district boundaries since both of them are on file. The statute says that any County and any District Court has jurisdiction if part of the proposed district lies in the county. Well, Dacono is all in Weld , but Erie being in both counties of these where the original petition was filed and where the subsequent petition was filed. My third response is, I feel that we certainly can work together with Dacono in working out the district boun- daries between us and hopefully doing it in advance with- out delaying Dacono and without delaying Erie' s protection district and to have boundaries common to both parties and all parties be satisfied with. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Yes, Joe, I will refer back to you and the: •members of your fire board as to what solution at this time you people are to take. -31- MR. REBEL: We will merely take the fire dis- trict as it is and hopefully you will approve of the fire district and then I think probably we would want to work it out with Erie first, and later on, I don't know, probably be awhile yet, and make at the same time work with the Longmont fire district. What we are going to lose on tax revenue we would like to gain at another place because if we' re talking about six thousand dollars, which isn 't too much money, we hate to petition something out or have this petition of our tax payers into their district and we are the losers naturally we want to get six thousand dollars, which isn' t very much money, but we can' t afford to lose a penny. We will have to work with Longmont and work a deal out and get some of their district into ours and would like to have district approval, because we feel we were the firstest with the mostest. MR. JOHNSTON: LeRoy Johnston, Dacono. I think one thing we ought to consider is Longmont' s fire district is in Weld County and Erie, which the tax money mainly supports Boulder County fire stations. I have a little apprehension about Erie with there being on the border of Boulder County, being on the border. If sections were to be taken from Weld County in support of Errie I feel that probably some of that money would also go towards the Boulder County district there. I think we should look -32- at this . And I think we should be aware of this and we are very much aware of this in southwest Weld County. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : Yes. MR. ALLENDER: I am Bob Allender from the City of Dacono. I would like to ask a question o£ Mr. Koeberle . If you have had your petition on file since 1964 , what is taking so long, nine years is a long time for your petition to be drawn out. I don' t understand, what' s the delay? MR. KOEBERLE: I think that' s a very good question. On our original proposal we asked for forty-five thousand dollars, which frightened a few people, to build a new fire house and to get a new fire engine and it was turned down because the people were afraid of forty-five thousand dollars. As a result of that we subsequently have built or own a new fire house and do have a new fire engine , as I said, a ' 72 model engine. That' s the primary reason we were turned down in 1964 and that has been wiped out. Now, since that time something has happend which affected these small towns, as I'm sure you have been advised of. Back in July of 1972 we had to have, as any private citizen, lia- bility insurance. When all the little towns were trying to shop around for liability insurance to cover this . Prior to July 1, 1972, a year ago, there were very few insurance com- panies that were set up and able to treat this type of insur- ance and were frightened of insuring little towns with this -31 type of insurance. Therefore, we made an insurance contract which lasted ,one year, July ' 72 to July ' 73 and it was very limiting tows, in any event, the insurance company didn' t cover the equipment outside of town, liability-wise. As of July 1, 1973, this year, next month, we will be in a position to cover everything we did before, prior to last July, which was the area west of I-25 and you covered the area east of I-25, as I understand it. After this July we will be doing it again. It was the insurance problem that gave us all the trouble and I"m sure we have worked this problem out. They were just restricted in their liability during this one year and the company and the industry is geared up to give us insurance coverage that will take care of out of town service. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Are there any more com- ments; MR. McCAIN: Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the proponent I would respectfully ask the Board to approve the Dacono Area Fire Protection District as set forth and I think I gave the reasons and Mr. Rebel gave them. And we well try to work with Longmont and Erie to separate this district so that it will be feasible and so that it would have the ad- vantage of giving these people relatively immediate service that is as quickly as anybody could possibly do. I respectfully ask the Board to approve this application. I believe all the reasons have been stated earlier. -34- CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Any other comments? Mr. Lorenson, what was the recommendation o£ the Plan- ning Commission? MR. LORENSON: Our recommendation was to approve it as proposed. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: The Chair would entertain a motion to approve the application of the Dacono Fire Pro- tection District. MR. MOSER: I so move that we do approve this fire district as proposed. MR. ASHLEY: I would second that with the hope at some time in the future we can work out the mutual problem. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: The Chair would materially agree with this that through the efforts of both Erie and Da- cono and Longmont and Dacono that you people in the future work it out so that each of you have a hub and serve an area. How do you vote on the motion, Mr. Moser? MR. MOSER: Yes. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Mr. Ashley? MR. ASHLEY: Yes . CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: The Chair proposes that the Dacono Fire Protection District be approved with the stipulation that not only Dacono and Erie work this out, but work it out with the Longmont Fire Dsitrict also, in the future. Anything else to come before the Board; if not adjourn- -35- ment is in order. MR. ASHLEY: So move. MR. MOSER: Second. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS : The motion was made and seconded to adjourn, how do you vote, Mr. Ashley? MR. ASHLEY: Yes. CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Mr. Moser? MR. MOSER: Yes . CHAIRMAN BILLINGS: Chair votes yes. This hearing is adjourned. (Hearing closed. ) -36- REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE STATE OF COLORADO ) ss. COUNT( OF WELD ) I, Keith W. Rusk, Official Shorthand Reporter within the State of Colorado, hereby certify that I took in shorthand all the proceeding had and done in the foregoing hearing on the 30th day of May, 1973 . I further certify that the fore- going thirty-six pages contain a full, accurate and complete transcript of my notes. eith W. Rusk f Dated this 15- day of �,� , 1973, at i/ Greeley, Colorado. -37- Hello