HomeMy WebLinkAbout720659.tiff • !
WELD COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Date : February 22 , 1971
Subject : Indianhead Subdivision
Applicants : Interladco , Inc .
Planning Commission members present at executive meeting :
Philip Bowles , Chairman
Glenn Anderson
Donald Clark
Ronald Heitman
J . Ben Nix
John Watson
County Commissioners :
Marshall Anderson
Glenn Billings
Tom Connell , Ass ' t . County Attorney
720659
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- Mr. Bowles : First of letter , create a Homeown-
er' s Association to maintain the sewage facilities , a
signed water contract with Little Thompson Valley for
219 taps plus a tap for the commercial area , paved streets ,
curb , gutter and sidewalks designed to urban standards on
sixty foot right-of-way , meet all other requirements of
the existing Subdivision Regulations , plans for street
lighting , location and lumens , indicate minimum lot sizes ,
set-backs and height , typical lot layout , emergency - - -
that' s those dancing girls - - inaudible .
Mr. Bowles : I make a motion we don ' t read the
letter back to Commissioner Anderson . Inaudible. Sub-
mittal of utilities plan and drainage plan as part of the
PUD and propose development schedule and landscaping
plans for public or commercial areas and meet the require-
ments of the Unit Development as described in the regula-
tians . If the above items are in sufficient detail , a
preliminary plat would not be required but a final plat
would be required after the PUD is recorded . The entire
area mould be submitted as a final .plat and not piecemeal
and the PUDs require greater deal of work between the plan
ner , developer and engineer and cannot be expected to pre-
sent a PUD without extensive meetings before being present-
. ed to the Planning Commission . When you are ready to be-
gin , please contact the Planning office .
Mr. Lorenson : We' ve had one change in the water,
rather than stating fire hydrants distance , they relate to
the minimum water size line , should be six inches and one-
hundred pounds static pressure and sixty pounds flowing
pressure with a sustained capacity of at least 500 gallons
per minute .
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r'r• Barnes : You know that ' s s one thin with red . There ' s 9 I ci rc
no damned way in the world that anyb
can comply with that. Town of Keenesbur ' t ,
Town of Hudson g doesn ' t , the
doesn ' t , - -
why put somethin
there m im
at ' s 9 in
possible? They ' ll shoot you down
fast as if you never wrote it . Just as
Mr.
___ Lorenson : Alright ,
I tried .
Inaudible.
Mr. Billings : Is this
the first time you ' ve
seen this ?
Mr. Bowles : Yeah .
Mr. Billin s : After the
the letter over last time Burman sent
saying that he would possibly hear it
again on this half-acre lot they called and wanted some
clarification
on just what was expected and if you want
this taped
they didn ' t know it but
I taped all the things
they said they would do and one of the th •
threw in here , I advised them a little b � ngs that we
that since they ' ve � t and I told them
.Y vheard of some of the r
some other requirements in
. areas regarding fire hydrants and water Tines
and water enough to . supply those hydrants
it should be , that we thought
built in regarding anything they did an
of the gentlemen that were d both
. there said that they had no
objections to that so they' d put it in b
man to d° and for p decade ' but what I want
Bur-
. people to whether
you want to do or whether you this is what
you don t, I want him to specifi_
cally draw up the whole
regulations that you thought ought
to be in that subdivision
out there before they ever start-
ed on this file and
plat thing ?u have before you on half
acres and if there ' e anything that ' s in here
or should be
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included that you .Mould require any changes in any of
these suggestions that Burman ' s got , why it should be
strictly up to +,gnat the Planning Commission wants to do
but I think Burman ' s put these all down on paper so we ' d
have something to hang your hat on them and so far as
the fire hydrants , and there was something else Burman ,
to object to .
Mr. Lorenson : Installing all the sewer lines
before building permits can be issued .
Mr. Billings : Yeah .
Mr. Lorenson : And that ' s in there .
Mr. M. Anderson : Well , why don ' t they make
these deals with Burman or the Planning Commission? Why
should we hear any of this stuff before these deals are
made . If they ' re going to start making side deals , I ' m
going to fight it .
•
Mr. Billings : Well , there wasn ' t any side deal
made . The letter that they got and the last meeting at
the Planning Commission wasn ' t clarified so I told Burman
to make this list of things and the Planning Commission
could discuss and then tell them these things they had to
• develop .
Mr. Bowles : Well , on this water thing , you know,
I don ' t think there ' s any place in the County that could
meet that 100 pound static on water. There ' s not a small
town in the country that maintains 100 pounds static in
the water main .
•
Mr. Lorenson : Well , those are our proposals .
Inaudible .
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-1r. Bowles : In Keenesburg , if we have 50 pounds
pressure we all take baths and shower and everything else
and that ' s a lot of water pressure - - - - may be a 60 ,
you can require it but there ' s no way they can construct
the ;later system up here to get a 100 pound static unless
they ' re down at the bottom of the hill . So I don ' t know.
Mr. Heitman : Inaudible .
Mr. Bowles : , they' re going to
have to build an awful deep water tank on a pretty level
site like that , you ' re going to have to put a light on
top of it so the airplanes don ' t hit it .
Per. M. Anderson : 231 feet.
Mr. Bowles : That ' s got lights on it.
Mr. Nix : Well make it tough - - - -
Mr. Bowles : It ' s tough , but what I , you know ,
there ' s no sense in making it so tough that they can point
out that no other place in the County meets this , _so why
Mr. l.orenson : There ' s , what they ' re getting it
down to is the fact , if we ' re writing down all these con-
ditions and they meet every one of them, are they , going
around the mulberry tree again? Because they say they
don ' t want to spend $15 ,000 going through this thing again ,
not coming up with this disapprovals again . They' re ask-
ing for a zone change here and a zone change gives you a
perfect right to refuse them with sufficient reasons and
that' s where you can really bring in "that you don ' t want
a development out here etc . " , where with the Subdivision
Regulations , my opinion , and I ' m sure the County Attorney ' s
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is , is that when they meet the regulations ,
they ' ve got themselves a subdivision .
Mr. Nix : It ' s my feeling about this , correct me
if I ' m wrong , and that is in the first place we don ' t want
them , so , hopefully , they have to meet the regulations that
are so strict that , what I would hope anyway , that you try
to do , is make it so darned tough for they; that if they do
it , then you ' ve got something that ' s good . To answer your
question , I would have to go for it if it meets the so
called required regulations and I can face up to any op-
position , I ' ll stand hitched . This is the way I feel about
it , but I want them tough .
Mr. Watson : You ' re saying this letter should be
mailed then , Ben , with all these tough regulations and
things in it .
Mr. Nix : Sir?
Mr, Watson : You think this letter ought to go
out to them, cause it ' s tough , it' s tough , there ' s no
question about it ' s being tough.
Mr. Nix : Well I don ' t think , well the doggoned
legal department is sitting back here and I don ' t agree
with them all the time but they ' ve indicated that , that
they' ll take us to court for any , almost any reason we -
would object to . Isn ' t this about what you said , Tom?
Mr. Connell : I think that ' s definitely their in-
dication , as long , I think this , Ben. As long as they
feel that there is a valid argument on their part , I don ' t
think that they certainly are going to try the courts , if
they have to go get it through . They ' re probably are in a
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- position where they just about Cot to , considering the
investment , and plans they ' ve got stuff like that .
Mr. N . Anderson : inaudible .
Mr . Nix : I ' m not familiar enough with the re-
quirements and restrictions
Inaudible .
Mr . Bowles : All I ' m saying , you say , O. K. ,
Interiadco does it and then all of a sudden one of our
old buddies puts something out here and you ' ll say , "bell ,
maybe he ought to have a little bit less" - - - - and
make everybody toe the mark and there ' s cases where the
City of Greeley is furnishing water , they ' re not furnish-
ing 100 pounds static this , so do what you want
to on this , you can be just as tough as you want to , I
just think it ' s like anything else , it ' s got to be reason-
able , if they want to take it to court on a point, that' d
be the one I ' d take and the Judge would say , "Well , why
should you require it of these people when you don ' t- re-
quire it of the other areas?" , so - - -
Mr. Billings : The basic reason I told Burman to
• put this together is for the Planning Commission to tear
apart and to add , take out of or throw away or anything
else , but that deal he ' s got in there , as I read it , is
exactly what they said they would do but they didn ' t want
to start on this final plat unless the Planning Commission
thought that these met all the things that you were inter-
ested in and they also said that there were things there
that you thought ought to be added , that you should add
them to it , but if the Planning Commission decides they
- want tr send this out , it should ao out under the recommend-
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- ations of the Planning Commission . It ' s only a letter I
told Burman to put together for you people to study and
do what you want to .
Mr. Connell : There is one problem than I can
foresee with it . I think they are trying on this to do
much the same thing they did that first time they came in
before the Planning Commission , you know , before they ever
submitted a plat or anything and wanted the Planning Com-
mission to help lay it out for them'. What they ' re trying
to do is in one sense , put us in a position that , if we
give them a flat list of items and say , "These are the
things that have to be complied with " , or anything in
writing , then when they come back , if we have some addit-
ional grounds for denial , they ' re going to say , "You under-
took to set out a list for us , telling us that these were
the things that we had to comply with and we did , in fact
comply with them" , and then argue that by virtue of that
compliance that they should have it.
Mr. Lorenson : That ' s right , they ' re asking for
a pre-commitment .
Mr. Connell : Yeah , and I , you know they' ve got
their regulations . You might say that things that might
be considered - - - and in addition to existing regula-
tions would be such things as fire regulations , your State
code , I think provides , doesn ' t it already , for your loca-
tion of hydrants and your six inch minimum line .
Mr. Lorenson : Ou•r existing regulations do.
Mr. Connell : And so , as long as it does , then ,
but , oh , you might tell them that these are things that
will be given special look , fire protection , things of that
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-- nature , but when you go through your whole list of re-
quirements , if they put it together and come back in ,
they ' re going to be sitting there yelling , "0 . K. , you
listed them all and then there is another consideration
that we ' d bring up and it dsn ' t listed , how come? You
told us that these would be the thing " .
Mr . Billings : This is the reason , Tom , that I
had Burman list these out because there are , if there is
anything the Planning Commission sees that might not be
there or anything else , or they ' re even considering - -
can be added to it or deleted from or just use - - - - .
Per . Connell : Well , - - - what I was meaning
though , Glenn , was not that all these things that are
listed , we actually have provision for in the regulations
and I think our best bet with an outfit like this or any- -
body else , is say , " Look , you have the regulations , your
council has the regulations , you .kno,r the application pro-
cedure , if you apply , the first assumption is that you ' ve
got to follow those regulations as advised and as you read
them" , then that way you ' re not - -
Mr. This would be a commitment.
Mr. Connell : Well , it' s probably not a commmit-
ment , but it comes pretty close , or it gives them an argu-
ment of commitment at least .
Tyr. Nix : What you ' re saying , Tom, is , if I fol -
low you , that if ,if you don ' t have all of the requirements
listed , when you turn this over to them, you ' re pretty
much out on a limb .
Mr. Connell : What I ' m concerned with , all of
these requirements in a sense , have at least a foundation
a •
for. l•Ihen 4e undertake outside the regulations , to set
our a list of requirements , we ' re probably , not positive-
ly , but at least in a sense , limiting ourselves then to
these as csiderations for their application and I ' d just
rather not give them that edge . They' re already set out
in the regulations , they know they ' ve got to comply with
them .
Nr. Billings : Are all of these things in our
regulations ?
i:r. Connel 1 : O . K. , if they' re not in the regu-
lations , yOu might say , "0. K. , these are items that
would be considered in an application for a subdivision
in that area " , something like that , but don ' t , in any way ,
limit it , I mean leave it open ended on both ends , where
all you ' re doing is giving them some additional things
that would be considered and then specifically state ,
"But this does not limit the considerations that may arise
in public hearing or" , be specific , leave it open ended
where they ' re not saying , "0. K. , we gave , we got fifteen
points and by 'golly here ' s our application and here ' s all
fifteen points taken care of" .
Mr. Heitman : What you ' re saying though is just
• in the technical reasons .
Mr. Connell : Yeah , 4 mean , yeah , I ' d rather
just leave it open ended , because those guys are darned
sure what those regulations are as far as the requirements .
Mr. Billings : Well , I know they have - - -
Mr. Bowles : But these wouldn ' t be unlike plan-
ner recommendations , they make them up , they' re all writ-
ten c t anal you say, "I ot ' c l ok at th list , wh?t am
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•- staff recommendations " , it ' s just a matter of maybe giving
them to them ahead of time .
Mr . Connell : Yeah , but all I ' m saying is , we ' ve
in the sense that a non-consideration is given in your plan
and you should pay special attention to these things . Some-
thing like that . Well , all you ' re doing is giving them some
things to look at , but you ' re not limiting yourself or them
in their requirements , I mean , leave it open ended on both
ends , where there ' s no way that they can come in and say ,
you wrote a letter and we ' ve complied with every-
thing and now that we ' ve complied with , we want our change" .
Mr. Bowles : O . K. , wel 1 , if it ' s general agree-
ment , let' s let Burman redraft the letter then to include
tonight ' s suggestions . Proceed -- - - - as far as I ' m con-
cerned throughout the -- - - - .
Mr. Watson : And have it checked by council be-
fore he mails it?
Mr. Bowles : Why , sure , that ' s what they ' re over
there for.
Mr. Nix : Inaudible.
Mr. G. Anderson : This is in addition to the ex-
isting regulations .
Inaudible .
Mr. Bowles : Well , you say , "They' re just put for
consideration of Planned Unit Development , where , you know ,
- - - -- the Planning Commission for our consideration of" ,
instead of just saying "for" a Planned Unit Development.
Mr. Connell : Say , "The following , but not limit-
ed to" .
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Ask
Mr_. i Ye?h , Tom , help him ;cord that damned
thing so that it doesn ' t come and - - -
Mr. Watson Open ended .
Mr . Connell : That ' s what I want
we don ' t have to chew it up and
Inaudible .
Per. Watson : You don ' t have to send the letter.
Inaudible .
Mr. Bowles : I don ' t know why send them a letter,
hell , don ' t send them anything as far as I ' m concerned.
Let them come in and - - - - .
Mr. G . Anderson : The regulations are there if
they want to come in and submit something , let them come.
This way we just encourage them.
Per. M. Anderson : Well , they' ve tried to get
everybody I think in this room precommitted on this damned
thing over there . They started working on me the day , about
a week after that day , they gave us a working over out here
at the park , and I told them I didn ' t want to listen to any
of their problems because they was the Planning Commission' s
problems and wasn ' t the County Commissioner' s problems . I
.didn ' t want to hear anything about the damned deal till
after the Planning Commission heard it and made a recommend-
ation . And if they ' re running around here trying to make
side deals , with some of us , we ' re going to , somebody ' s
going to slip and we ' re going to get sued anyway , so let ' s
don ' t , let ' s don ' t give ' em anything to hang their hat on .
That ' s the way I look at it , cause they worked me over pretty
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- good up there one day and I finally told them I didn ' t want
to even hear their problems , I didn 't ever know where they
was at till they come out of the Planning Commission .
Mr. Bowles : Well , whether you send a letter or
not - - - - .
Mr. M . Anderson : The worst thing we can do is
pre- commit ourselves as County Commissioners on anything ,
especially on this planning and zoning and if we ' re .going
to do that , we don ' t need you guys . I think it ' s your prob-
lem first , then we ' 1 l take them on .
Mr. Bowles : with a good tough list - - -
Mr. Mr . Anderson : Don ' t put nothing in writing
to them, make them conform with the regulations and if they
can comply and , we ' re not going to have a lot to say, have
we , Tom?
Mr . Lorenson : Well
Mr. Connell : a simple matter , their ap-
plication , they ' re in the same position as anybody else. to
make their application conform with the regulations and it
stands for consideration on the application that ' s made,
and - - - - .
Mr. M. Anderson : And it comes through channels .
Mr. Connell : All I ' m concerned , from a legal
standpoint , I don ' t have any objection to the letter or no
letter , except that if the letter is sent , I want to be
darned sure that it ' s worded in such a way that it , there
is no possible way that they can construe that to be the
only requirements there are for consideration or that any-
thing el sp i < pre,l I` ded from consideration , th t i t'
J - �. . � .. .. that it' s J any
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- guarantee that as long as it ' s complied with , I want it
wide open .
Mr . Watson : feel l , I think that - - - -
Mr. Nix : I ' ll agree , Tom .
Mr. Lorenson : Well , I take it my instructions
are to confer with Tom and have a letter sent which does
not commit the County to anything but state some of the
things that would be required in a Planned Unit Development.
Mr. M . Anderson : Let them come over and get the
information from you , don ' t mail them nothing .
Mr . Heitman : I kinda agree with that . I agree
with Glenn , I don ' t think a letter should be sent on any-
thing .
Pair. Lorenson : ,lel l , I don ' t know what to do.
Mr . Bowles : You ' ll - - have to decide which
side of the fence to fall off on .
Inaudible .
Mr. Bowles : Who says send them a letter?
Mr. Watson : You want a motion?
Mr. Bowles : No , I don ' t want any motion , who
Urants to send them a letter? Say "Aye" .
No answer.
Mr. BOwl es : Who says don ' t send them a letter?
Unanimous : "Aye" .
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Mr. Bowles : O. K. You know which side of the
fence your going to be on .
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