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1 785
1 C" M.nu 2 2- 191c-
Recorde'i at ,...._ ---------
Rer::. No. J2
,`11 fwtj�. win, Nn Fe+ae;,rein, Recordar
I-1
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, a public hearing was held on Wednesday, November 4,
1970 at 2:30 P. M. in the chambers of the Board of County Commissioners
of Weld County, Colorado, for the purpose of hearing a petition of
Foundation For Urban And Neighborhood Development (F. U. N. DA, by
Roger Lauen, Director, 944 Osage Street, Denver, Colorado, requesting
change of zone from "A" Agricultural District to "R-UD" Residential Unit
Development, in accordance with official development plat and plan, copy
attached, to be recorded in the office of the Weld County Clerk and Recorder,
and
WHEREAS, the petitioner was present and represented by Roger
Lauen and by counsel, Mr. James Nathanson, and
WHEREAS, there was opposition to the change of zone, and
c WHEREAS, the Board of County Commissioners heard all the
testimony and statements of those present, and
WHEREAS, the Board of County Commissioners has studied the
request of the petitioner and studied the recommendations of the Weld
County Planning Commission, and having been fully informed;
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, by the Board of County
Commissioners, that the petition of the Foundation For Urban and Neigh-
borhood Development (F. U. N. D. ) by Roger Lauen, Director, for a change
of zone from "A" Agricultural District to "R-UD" Residential Unit
Development, said area being more particularly described as follows:
Lot Thirteen (13) of the Wiesner Subdivision located in
the South Half (SP of Section Seven (7), Township Two
(2) North, Range Sixty-five (65) West of the Sixth P. M. ,
Weld County, Colorado, containing 18. 2 acres, more
or less,
all as shown on official development plat and plan, hereinabove mentioned,
copy of which is attached hereto and made a part hereof by reference, be,
and it hereby is granted under the conditions following:
1. That any water and sanitation facilities to be installed shall
be approved by the State Health Department.
2. All applicable subdivision regulations and zoning regulations
shall be followed and compiled with in accordance with the Zoning Resolution
of Weld County, Colorado.
Dated this 28th day of April , 197 1
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WEJ J)) COUNTY, COLORADO
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County A torney
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Show to whom, date and address Deliver ONLY ' , '^
where deiiveliDd '� to addressee
RECEIPT „
Received the numbered article described below. r
REDB#mw'MM... SIGNATURE DR NAME OF ADDRMER r, Aye b Pia w) r,l .•
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FUND
H ` 1
April 12 , 1971
Marsh Anderson, Chairman
County Commissioners
Weld County Court House
Greeley, Colorado
Dear Sir:
Our efforts to secure a zone change on Ione Road from
agricultural to planned unit development started ten months
ago. Our work began with Burman Lorenson and his staff in
June, 1970. and ended on September 8, with a recommendation
from the Planning Commissioners to approve the zone change.
The work with your office began the next day, September 9 ,
1970. Seven months have elapsed. In the interim, we have
talked to the surrounding residents in the area, we have
met with you on numerous occasions (November 4, February 1 ,
December 10 and February 3 ) , and none of these meetings
have produced a decision. Ostensibly, the delay between
our December meeting and April 7 was uncertainty on your
part about'', the availability of water. There is some ques-
tion about, who has jurisdiction over tha kind of question.
That consideration aside, after we produced our documenta-
tion of water ( 20 gallons per minute) , there was still no
decision mide.
Perhaps we have been negligent in our task. Perhaps we
have failed to communicate the urgency of solving some of
the housing shortages in Weld County.
Permit me to be very clear about my next point: people
without decent housing can not wait indefinitely.
We hope and expect a decision next Wednesday, April 14, 1971 ,
Sincerely,
roe
WELD CO, COMMIS:ki
Co
Roger Laueri Arc', 1^3 1971
F.U.N.D.
n.n� .,
4
Gabriel Lianas
FREEDOMS ii
p
RL:G:/e '
FOUNDATION FUR> URBAN AND NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
ii ' cAfkaiffa la49x R xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xWx ?
OUR NEW ADDRESS IS:
g44 Osage Street, Denver, Colorado 80204 (303) 534-0263
.v(1`2 • 3 / lot Cc.i.;n•binr• ..•irrj., 1:.;::51 Sherman Shc•o, Denver, Cotorodo 80203 ,? _
/1.°-I . A• PERMIT TO USE GROUND ER ti'••� 7
1.: . 7 A PERMIT 10 .CONSTRUCT A WtLI �,-t..,-,',e.1,-
APPL I CAT I C'.� FOR.: . 3 REf'LACE�'t"+-I FOR NO, n, z0 1, `� tV
1.: / ` P PERMIT TO INSTALL A PUMP T- (.1 07FJ,•,, Z� co�
(J COj
PR IN" OR TYPE. t.00ATION OFO_EV' „��'
. APPI. ICANT I- ;i, L/ /,'� f` " a /..,? l•.,; COUNTY 1/4'l1
is�• � [_..� .�_'---=i-' _.. =
/1•�', /c-i,• c•e/::4 r. '•/f'...*•,!ice
Street Address ____ Ci 1_... LZ._.�--1?_,z2..,-.-:•,,-___(,;--.!•:) / '—, of the .c ! 4. sec.- 7
4
•
City & State __!c::!1(_ ..-%_- / c':G_) e. / T. �i1/ , R. l ra.,1 �? P.M.
Do I::'';2r/c..: Street or
Use df ground water _-•__ - •_ .- _:/". .'<... . ..// :..);,',-s t.ot & Block
Owner of land on which we i l� City or -
is located )4 !! Sybdiv. Filing
,:i1_•,- if . . . i . :e<.
land ____.....__� __.._._. Ground Water Basin
Number of acres _...�_._� Water Management
to be ir-, igatecl — ___- District
Legal dcs .ription of
irrigated land LOCATE_WELL ON THE BACK
OF SS SHEET
___________ __�_ C(..(?
Driller r• r"% .cC LC /\ F' No. t7 )
Other water rights on Driller's 0f
this land Address 6.<(. C /.": g.S'i f e/it-:. /� ' r/Te- 7
Aquifer (s) ground water is to be obtained
from /7.- ij/� .(-/, / , /
.../ Signature of Applicant
Storage capacity Al 1.0.11D.i II INS _OF.. APPROVAL
ANTICIPATED PUMPING RATE 4:2,,-..-. GPM • APPROVED FOR DOMESTIC USE ONLY.
•
AVERAGE ANNUAL. AMOUNT OF GROUND WATER TO •
BE APPROPRIATED _))- Acre-feet .
ESTIMATED WELL DATA
A i, I( if:I t...0 :t i..-t of ii, , : i . . _,1_:••_;,." .1 ..2 .
Anticipated start of use �.._,lj,�. __./. _i f/
Hole Diameter: / '�� rc�`
A.; ill in. from �_/,�
_ ft . • to • ft.t. ( A-F L l CAT I C.% A.r PROVED: --+
/. in. from ci. ft . to �c'c,L; ft. VALID FOR ONE (1) YEAR AFTER DATE ISSUED
UNLESS EXTENDED FOR- GOOD CAUSE SFlO'..'N TO
Cas sin : THE I SSU I I:i ... .,;Y
Plain _ i.fi in. fromt+_ ft. to _ ..;(*) ft. PERMIT NO. - R_
-- � ,'. i ',0 CO:.:'ITIONAL I"-'-7
" i n. fro:; _. ..'...__ f t . to 1..2.::•:.f t. I .)
DATE I` S''S •r`{'k 2 `' ��••
i'. r i .. f r, i . . i., ft . 0 �..� . . .._ .._..._ _.___._
_____ - S Tr; ..•y i 1
ES fitt;_•rf__D P____ _('':T,"-.
- ; - I Out let i BY
-7
.1. .•
r;. 11--•--'I_.I..: 1__.[ : t OMi•i i il- `. TI Y`_1O:�ILV �1 _•4C :E.AC.CFP.1-,; . .__._...-..____.._-----._...._._.-....(O1.ER).
WRJ.25_7o STATE OF COLORADO
Index No. DIVISION OF WATER RESOURCES ,` r'
IDWD - OFFICE OF THE STATE ENGINEER A
i
Completion________ _____
Yield__._-_.____. __._ MAP AND STATEMENT FOR WATER WELL FILING
Chocked By_.,_____ i
- PERMIT NUMBER [/ 1 .2 7
STATE OF COLORADO ) SS WELL LOCATION
CLAIMANT (s# . "'t4_,-i t•: ,.:}.. ,r; ... �- r •.1..f, �s . I►� / �' County f.
-.J /r f}
being duly sworn upon oath dt poses and says that he (they) is (are)
J of ---- ', sec. 7
the owner (s) of the well descried hereon; the total number of acres '
T. - i \ _R. .' LA/
61 P.M.
of land irrigated from this well is •
oINDICATE WELL LOCATION ON DIAGRAM
work was commenced on this well by actual onstruction on the
.01-1"" day of 1921 the sustained
NORTH
I I
I I
yield from said well is �' gpm, for which claim is hereby made I I
+— I
for ;�'� purpose (s); 1 I
I
the average annual amount to be diverted is I I ^'
Lur--- r ---> -
—
acre-feet; this map and statement is filed in compliance with law; 3 I I I —i m
he (they) has (have) read the statements made hereon; knows the I I I
content thereof; and that the same are true of his (their) own
knowledge. I I
I I
I I i X
Signature (s) — I I I
Ali
SOUTH
Address:. /�' 9 7 �=� y�
1 .,,,,LA E,i;, (. •cr . �''(`'_„1.,Di WELL SHALL BE LOCATED WITH REFERENCE TO •
-.01 GOVERNMENT SURVEY CORNERS OR MONUMENTS.
Subscribed and sworn to before me on this day OR SECTION LINES BY DISTANCE AND BEARING.
of , 19 ft. from section line.
(North or South)
My Commission expires:
(Spelt ft. from section line,
(East or West)
Notary Public
Ground Water Basin
Water Management
WELL DATA District
Dnte Completed /mil' / Domestic wells may be located by the following:
i
Static Water Level / + LOT _ , BLOCK
47
Total Depth of Well N../ SUBDIVISION
FILING #
ACCEPTED FOR FILING IN THE OFFICE OF THE STATE ENGINEER OF COLORADO ON THIS DAY
OF ._.._- ----- , 19 .
STATE ENGINEER
FORM TO BE MADE OUT IN QUADRUPLICATE: WHITE FORM must be an original copy on both sides and signed.
WHITE AND GREEN copies must be tiled with the State Engineer within 30 days after the well is completed or within 7 days
after expiration date of the permit. whichever is sooner; PINK COPY is for the Owner and YELLOW COPY is for the Driller.
..
_ WELL DATA
From To Type Fc Color of Mr, ,l Water Loc. Type Drill I..J V101. ,�
n 2 / -1...<iiH0LE DIAMETER:
J•t �, t ` in. from f.; ft. to__ eft
in. from ft. to ,$ft.
�' .4„.i.,..ii',. ,, in. from _ft. to ft.
- - 7 — • -'-et-I,e, CASING RECORD
-; , _>!,�
,. • f ;'., Plain Casing
•i, ." *- ; ?:f .. w Size kind 1� from r ft. to _ft.
i
If �' �� ^
t f� ° � �•� _ �..• Size kln�,�,���-"om �1 ft. to �►..,Z ft.
Imo_ I �" Siz kind,ot-'tom ft. to b.4,5 ft.
kf 'r rat �Ismg 75
'
. c I t Siz kind ilfrom q, �_..., f ., w ft. to j 710/ft.
�:, ��, Size kind4 rom Sft. to___26.kft.
�-
16/16 -:?l ' .,.,,,:....4.i.'„,.; Size, kind from ft. to ft.
C, - GROUTING RECORD
7 •;, i �- i,. % J•-• " Material .f.'...•, 71.7?- ,I... 5 . -li'/// I Intervals ,�►-. �
lJ�� `// 34 `�J,'�iwly,�i
' r ,/' Placement Method y ,
• _j."
.ti -",• GRAVEL PACK RECORD
i " ./• -.1t-t-t-fi •
.
G.0"
7 ?? ).1.//‘ '✓,4.-0 ? Size Interval
i14,/,'", 7h' """z --- ' v TEST DATA
I / '.. . • i Date Tested 1`0t4.4.;t f0
,�„ 'I'
Type of Pump C��}`� 7 i5
Length of Test 31,4,44„.
Sustained Yield( :Metered) .21:f
Drawdown `-2A.5
s
..A .WfI4,. DRILLERS STATEMENT •
The undersigned, being duly sworn, deposes and •
( says: he is the drillsr of the well hereon
described; he has ,• .d the statement made hereon;
knows the content thereof. and the same is true
of his own knowledge.
Use additional paper .t necessary to complete log. i�
�`
x b1...."e. ..E'.4;;fr - , ...ate
f 'w
State of Colorado, County of ) ss License'No. S! I
Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of , 1y
My Commission expires , 19
Notary Public
FUND
April 5, 1971
County Commissioners
Weld County, Colorado
attn: Betty Schol4e
Dear Betty:
Enclosed is a copy of the water permit issued by the Division of
Water Resources arid copy of the well drillers log. We have the
originals of thee* documents in our files in Denver in case you
are need of them. +:
Sincerely,
RRogeLauen >`
FOUNDATION FOR _;URBAN AND NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
1889 York Street/ Der ? er, Colorado 80206 (303) 377- 8832
November 4, 1970
I hereby certify that pursuant to a notice dated September 23, 1970,
duly published September 25 and October 23, 1970, a public hearing was had on
an application for Change of Zone as requested by Roger Lauen dba F. U. N. D.
at the time and place specified in said notice. The evidence presented was
taken under advisement and the decision will be made -at a later date.
52
-Attest: 1/vrl� /J ,y,�, .n i iE%cC 'C-- /5 l/ „ '-adcfp-7
County Clerk &id Recorder Chairman
and Clerk to the Board Board of County Commissioners
Great _estern United Corp oral n4'
Equitable Building DECEMBER
Denver, Colorado 80202 15th
(303) 893-4400
1970
The County Commissioners
Weld County Commission
Court House, Second Floor
Greeley, Colorado
Attention: Glen Billings
William M. White
Chairman and President Dear Sirs:
Due to an unexpected and unavoidable
conflict, I find myself unable to join
with Messrs. Montfort, Grant, and the
other trustees of_Freedoms, Inc. in
meeting with you tomorrow. By this
letter, I wouldlike to assure you that
I personally and my company corporately
support their comments and the project
thatyxeedoms, Inc. is proposing.
The Great Western United Corporation has
for some time been supporting a migrant
settlement project in Weld County. The
housing project is an outgrowth of that
settlement effort. We believe that the
settlement -effort, in allits ramifications,
is an important national-mile-stone in the
improvem-ent of migrant conditions. I
have personally reviewed the-housing pro-
posal with great care, and believe it to be
crucial to the entire-migrant settlement
_project.
$4sl-Or-co ' me /2
fate Y-OF-WELD
Faed with thrttrwit of-the Board
of xourty-Commtulomra
DEC 151970
COUNTY Cl EPIF ARP ENCOROEfl
by
GreatWestern United Corporation
The County Commissioners
December 15 , 1970
Page 2
If I or this company can help to
facilitate it, please feel free to
contact me.
Very tr y yours ,
WILLIAM M. WHITE
bh
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY, COLORADO
Minutes - December 9, 1970
FUND - Foundation of Urban Development
County Commissioners
County Attorney
County Planner
Mr. Lauen - FUND Representative
Mr. Nathanson - Attorney
Mr. Charles Grant - Trustee FREEDOMS Board
Mr. Billings: Under old business _Change of Zone FUND, -do we have any report
on that?
Mr. Lorensen: Mr. Ohairman, the people from FUND are here and I think
they would like to communicate with you.
Roger Lauen: My address is 944 Osage, Denver, Staff Member of Foundations
for Urban Development. One of the reasons we returned today, of course,
we are anxious about the -decision, how you may -decide on the request.
We didn't adequatly describe the non profit organization, the legal
entity to develop the land and the residential area. This will not
be FUND - FUND has developed it to this point but according to the
farmers Home Administration the stipulation that a much more localized
group - legally registered with the State - as an organization to be
the receiver that is receiver of the loan and the name of this
organization is the initials that it spells FREEDOMS. The FREEDOMS
stands for kind of a long winded name. If you are interested in that
name we can go through that but for our communication today we would
like to state what FREEDOMS is - what their role in this particular
development will be.
James Nathanson: I am attorney for Foundations of Urban Neighborhood
Development. 944 Osage, Denver.
Harold Anderson: Would you speak a little louder please.
Mr, Nathanson: Certainly, I am the staff attorney for Foundations of Urban
Neighborhood of 944 Osage Street, Denver, Colorado. I would like to
explain to the Commission a little more about FREEDOMS. The real
name for FREEDOMS is FrontRange Economic and Enviormental Development
Micropolitan Settlement. FREEDOMS is a non profit Colorado corporation
that was formed in September of this year . It was formed with an
original Board of Directors as required by statutue composed of the
first five families who intend to settle out on the property that is
petitioned for rezoning and most of those people, I think, you met.
at the hearing last month but they are of record again ,
Mr. Gabriel Llanes, Jess Gonzales, Jess Hernandez, Jose Dominques,
-Felipe Garcia all of whom have been approved by the Farmers Home Loan
9
Mr. Nahtanson for individual loans to construct homes at this site.
Also on the original Board of Directors is Mr. William White,
Ken Monfort, Charles Grant and Floyd Koshio. Mr. Grant is here
and would like to speak brieflytwith you and Mr. Koshio who you
may not know is a grower in the Fort Lupton area. As I was saying
Mr. Koshio who is also a member of the original Board of Directors
is a grower a farmer in the Fort Lupton community.
The purpose for which FREEDOMS was formed as Mr. Lauen
said is after discussion with Farmers Home Administration about
loaning money to the development of this project it was felt that
housing in the Fort Lupton area, they felt that a non-profit corporation
which represented a cross section of the people in the community who
were interested in developing low cost housing would be a -more
appropriate entity than FUND _or anyone else in the area to receive
the loan and to tarry out the project and At was at their urging
that this was formed: FREEDOMS would purchase from FUND the property
of which the petition for rezoning has been filed and to secure for
part -of the cost of the development a loan from the Farmers Home
Administration. As I said Mr. Grant will speak on those particulars
in just a moment. I would like to take a minutes if there aren't
any questions about FREEDOMS which 1 could answer, to a recitation
to what I think is a legal posture of our petition for rezoning
mostley I would like to take this time because at the end of our
hearing last month it -didn't really seem to be the time to summarize
or to make legal arguments. I hope I can do that in not too a long
of time now.
I would mostly like to re-emphasize that the Planning
Commission has approved the petition. I think that there is very
strong -case law and general propositions which say that the Planning
Commission, once one is established within a county, has competence
to deal with various technical questions regarding zoning and we
have their approval as I understand that. I think legally unless
this group, the County Commissioners, receives very very strong
evidence contrary to the recommendation of the Planning Commission
that they should follow the recommendation of the Planning Commission
and without trying to go over the entire matter I would like to make
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 3
Mr. Nathanson: a st-atement that I don't believe there has been any
evidence received that is in any way -contrary to the recommendation
of the Planning Commission. And if I may simply, not that I believe
that it is completely dispositive of the legal questions but a think
it is a very good statement of the law I would like to read to you
from a recent opinion from Judge Pyle of Jefferson County a case
very similar to ours. A case involving rezoning in Jefferson County,
where the Planning Commission of Jefferson County recommending
rezoning and the County Commissioners there turned down the petition
for rezoning. The petioners then went to the District Court in
reversed
Jefferson County and had the County Commissioners -revert-and in
doing that in part Judge Pyle said, the Court is speaking for itself.
The Court denies the problems of police, fire, schools and taxes
especially in the context of the evidence of this case are proper
consideration for determining zoning if county government-al officials
are permitted to may to the owners of property that they may not
provide a home for families because the children have to be
educated because adults or children have to be policed because
homes have to be protected from fire, then they, speaking of County
Commissioners, then County Commissioners can require a county without
people - just revenue producing properties and that is the end of
the 'quote from Judge Pyle. I would really like to urge this to
the Commissioners as Judge -Pyle speaks of it and that is there is
some concern for the people in here who were speaking, fire protection,
police protectionand schools. But of course Judge Pyle says and if
you carry those agruments to a logic-al extreme you can have a county
without people. I think that unless you have any questions today
we have indicated to the Commissioners and to the -Planning Commission
the need for housing and in all the other background which, J think,
recommends rezoning here.
I would like to finish by this very briefly letting Mr.Lauen
answer the question that was raised concerning water because I think
all of the evidence presented to the Planning Commissioners -and -presented
to this group indicates that there is adequate water on the property.
I would like Mr. lauen just to speak to that point.
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 4 FUND
Mr. Lauen: There is essentially three sources of evidence that I
where the
think confirm and agree with our notions of/water is -and how much
water we can provide. One was from the water enginner that was here
the last time Mr. Phil Ray from Ray Associates from -Boulder saying
that the Foxhills water lies somewhere between 600 and 900 feet.
That was confirmed by a representative from the Division of Water
Resources from the State of Colorado in a letter to the Planning
Commissioners through Mr. Lorensen. The third source of evidence
are four different well drillers that have drilled wells in the
Foxhills in that mange of b00 to 900 feet and they are Ray Clover
of Fort Lupton, Roger Shocky of Adams County, George Wanaka of
Layfayette, Colorado and Holden and Holden of Brighton and Hudson.
All of them have drilled wells, all of them have tapped the foxhills
water and all of them have got water between 600 and 900 feet. So
I think there is enough experiential evidenceand theoretical
evi-dence from -geologists and water engineers to say that the water
we are in
is there. By the way/in the process of having Mr. Shocky drill our
well that is underway now.
Mr. Grant: I am Charles Grant from Longmont, my address there is
180 South Platte Parkway. I am Presi-dent of the Golden West Milling
Company in Longmont and I am currently in the State Legislature and
I am here today in a personal capacity as a trustee of FREEDOMS
INC. and speak to this problem of migrant resettlement with a
certain amount of personal experience and personal concern having
been an owner of farms in Weld County, which employ -migrant labor
and having become involved _in the question of f-arm help and farm
workers and as a member of the legislature and also as the Democratic
candidate for Lieutenant Governor in this last xampaign. I would
like to lend my personal support for -this request for rezoning.
I think FREEDOMS INC and FUND have stone an imaginative inovative
creative study of serious _problem in our State. A serious human
problem. I believe that their research and their _request for
rezoning have -been thoroughly researched and adequately presented.
I feel that in many ways this represents an opportunity for Weld
County to take zeal leadership in this field to do something about
Board Minutes Decnrber 16, 1970 5 FUND
Mr. Grant: the serious problem of migrants in our society and in our State.
I speak also in behalf of Mr. William White, who has requested that
I submit a letter also expressing his endorsement of this request
and I would like to hand this to the prop= r person.
Mr. Billings: I assume this is Mr, White of the Great Western.
Mr. Grant: Right.
Mr. Nathanson: We would like to consider Mr. White as one of the directors
of FREEDOMS.
Marshall -Anderson: Have you any fellows been out there say a week ago Thursday?
Mr. Nathanson: -Be out?
Marshall -Anderson: _0n that site.
Mr. Nathanson: -A week ago Thursday.
Mr. Lauen: I was out there on Friday.
Marshall Anderson: If anybody has guts enough+ to put people out on that
hill the way that wind was blowing the other day they have 'got no
kind of
heart. I grew up in that/country and that dust is so dam bad
coming off of that particular piece of ground. There is some old
boy out there trying to build a house, the plywood was flying all
over, you go out there and you' break that vegetation and if you..
are not going to start the Grapes of Wrath again, well men then
I am wrotg; It is the worst place in Weld County for snow storms
it is on that storm ridge. You get anybody sick out there there As
no way -of getting to them. I think you guys have missed the boat
for location, the concept is alright, but for God's sake don't put
those people in that sand and snow storms. If you break that
vegetation on that ground out there it will take the paint off
the houses. I don' t think you people have looked at the situation
thats the highest most windy, dirtiest, rottenest hill in Weld County.
There isn't enough water to keep it wet.
Mr. Lauen: I really think that
Marshall Anderson: If you don't believe me go out there - just go out there
and try to get around that road sometime in a snow storm. That is
the worst hill i-n the County. There is a lot of places insthis County
where this thing would work but I tell you - you take them out that
far out of town, out on that ridge, that thing faces the north
and that wind _comes down across there I tell you its awful. I was
out there in a County pick up a week ago tomorrow, -there was rocks
a flying - you talk about the Grapes of Wrath starting. There is no
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 6 FUND
way that you can get any vegetation to grow on that ground
with the amount of weather you have got. If you go stirring
that ground up out there -and the weather conditions on that
ridge - you can go three mil-es in any direction and stet out
of it but you got the highest -hill east of Fort Lupton.
Now there are pl-aces that can te - the place that needs
to have this done to is Wattenburg. You even have a -built
in recreation hall down there. The Federal Home Administration
spent $50,000.00 for a well. T-here is already a settlement there
there is some pretty fair houses, there is some decent ground in
there and with some planning you could buy an eighty acres in there
that you would have something but out there-I come out of the dust
bowl I know what it is like to be a little kid and live _in that
stuff.
Mr. L-auen: Our response sir, is that the residents that Mr. Nathanson
talked -about and the additional residents that are planning to live
there have considered _it for some eight months now.
Marshall Anderson: Well I don't care they are not natives of the area, they
don't know, the climatic conditions.
Mr. Lauen: Gabriel LLanes has lived there since 1956.
Marshall -Anderson: Well I don't care just go out there — we fight sand drifts
on that road, it is the worst road we've got in the County to keep -open.
Mr. Lauen: Its paved within a quarter of a mile
Marshall Anderson: That doesn't make any difference. ,just go out in that wind
for a while when that winds a blowin and as dry as it is. If you guys
got guts enough to put families out there in that dust you haven't got
any heart. J grew up in that stuff and I know.
Mr. Lauen: I think it is a misnomer to say that we are putting them -out
they have participated in the problems that are i-nvolved
Marshall Anderson: If you guys promote a deal like that when we have good
places in Weld County.
Mr. _Lauen: I am not prepared to say that Wattenburg is a better place--
Marshall Anderson: I am not either. I know 13 acres thats for free if the
right people get a hold of it. But you go out there in that sand dunes
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 7 FUND
Mr. Lauen: Well I think we have listened very carefully to the
planning staff and Planning Commissioners, other developers
water developers.
Marshall Anderson: Sure any one of the guys for a buck will do anything.
But you are putting those people out there.
Mr. Lauen: I am not saying that the planning staff has any financial
interest in developing that land.
Marshall Anderson: I know but if you are not familiar with that area. Just
look at the sand dunes around there, the fence rows are drifted in
I remember when they tried to farm it out there - that whole country
was moving out there - they give it up. . If it hadn't been for the
sprinklers two miles east of there that whole country moves. It you
don't keep cover on it - you know how it is Glenn if you go to farm
it. I think you had better take a look. I made a special trip out
there.
Mr. Telep: Charley, have you seen that area out there? You know where it is?
Mr. Grant: Yes I do, I know
Mr. Telep: I wanted you to know
Mr. Grant: I have raised some question about feasibility of farming
the area, the test that they made by FUND in analyzing in the area.
I think the one terribly important concept implicit in this program
that is terribly important to me and is the key to the whole program
is the involvement of the settlers themselves in determining the site
on which they want to live and making policy decision on which they
want to live and making policy decision in the program and those of
us who are trustees of FREEDOMS INC., we are not settlers nor migrants
ourselves feel that this is about thermost important feature namely
that the settler themselves are going to be the determining where
they live, the kind of housing they are going to live in and we feel
for too long there has been a kind of paternalism on the part of
government and the part of the agencies that are dealing with migrants
and with the poor. I feel that the point brought out by Mr. Lauen
that the settlers themselves are the ones who prefered this site
is terribly important to understand.
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 8 FUND
Marshall Anderson: Well Charley I think you can tell anybody anything but
damned if I would live out there and you wouldn't live out there.
The concept - I am not fighting the concept or the theory behind it
but for God's sake lets don't put those people out there in the sand
dunes. You guys come out of the bright lights and off the pavement
and the green grass in Denver and you don't know how it As to have
that sand cut your nose and eves. You don't know what it is to
hang a bedspread - presoaked bed -sheets over the window to keep the
dust out. And that is just where you are going.
Mr. Billings: I doubt if you realize we were plowing snow off the roads
just like this situation out there and the roads were actually blocked
that would be on out in my district we were plowing snow yesterday.
Marshall Anderson: Did you ever have a sick sitter or brother with the _roads
blocked and you can't get to them.
Mr. Nathanson: This is -really - as you were talking I was looking back
at last Thursday and as I recall I was at about l0:DD or 11:00 o'clock
in the morning driving from _Greeley to Fort Lupton on Highway 85
and Highway 85 was not a good place to be - there were over 110 mile
an hour winds in Boulder and I suppose about 80 mile an hour winds
Marshall -Anderson: Well alright, it comes right out that Boulder Valley
and hits the top of that hill. But fellows lets look for a better
place.
Mr. Nathanson: I would just like to speak to the medical questions that
you have raised to make a point which I think has been made. In terms
of knowing Weld County and the area at Fort Lupton there is in the
process of being constructed and will -be operating next month a
major medical clinic which is less than -six miles away from the site
which will put medical facilities in the Fort Lupton area that have
never been there before. I don't think and Judge Pyle doesn't think
that that is necessarily a zoning consideration. I think that we have
to remember that things do change and that the desirability, the
feasibility of living places really will change with time passing
and as for example there will be a major medical facility less
than ten miles away from this settlement ---
Marshall Anderson: Did you ever try to fight a snow storm - a two or three
foot snow storm and a 100 mile an hour wind trying to get to a sick
child?
Board Minutes Dercmber 16, 1970 9 FUND
Mr. Nathanson: No I personally haven't stone that sir.
Marshall Anderson: Okay. Try that sometime.
Mr. Lauens I think it is of merit that if Gabriel Llanes, Jess Hernandez
and Jose Hernandez have been in that area since 1956 and have been
the major participants and decision makers in selecting this piece
of land.
Marshall Anderson: I don't know but I don't have the heart to _put those
people out there. There is a better place.
Mr. Lauen: I am not putting them out there sir, they are deciding that
that is the place
Marshall Anderson: Sure but your -making it impossible for them, lets find
a _decent place for them. If you are going to bring them out of that
stream let get them in at where at least they can live like human
beings. Hell their dog won't even have a place to live unless
they take him in the house out there. I have seen these colonies
around this county for thirty years.
Mr.Nathanson: We had almost a hundred people here last month who had
been living there -
Marshall Anderson: Well thats right, but they are a different kind of people
they grew up there.
Mr. Nathanson: Well so did many of these people
Marshall Anderson: and they have wind breaks, there are trees that are 30
and 40 years old, they are pioneer people out there and they know
how to live in that country. But you take people who don't know
how to live and there is no windbreak there for ten years and I
dou`t if you can get trees to grow out there with the water you've
got. But fellows there is so many better places in this county
than that dam ridge out there. You think the wind was blowing down
on 85 you should have been right around that hill because my foreman
and I were out there. We came all the way across there and it wasn't
bad until we got on top -o-f that hill but I' ll tell you everything was
moving. Those people - look at those Aeries out there - windbreaks
trees, down behind the hill -and you are setting these people right
on the north slope - right square out of Boulder Canyon. That wind
comes out there and fans out - watch your storm pattern out there
that road gives us a fit. You try to farm it out there- I've seen
that road 6 or 8 feet deep out there.
'oara Minutes December 16, 1970 10 FUND
Mr. Billings: A problem you are going to run into that area too
in our hearing the other day it was indicated that some of these
people were working in the Greeley area and even as far as Denver
area and there is just no way those people can get back and forth
to work in the wintertime.
Marshall Anderson: You can open that road and the dam thing will be closed
before you can get out there.
Mr. Lauen: They are workingin Greeley now and living in Fort Lupton
Mr. Billings: I know - but you place them -out there and you say
basically they are ten miles from any facility of any kind
medical and all of this
Mr. Nathanson: They are six miles from a major medical facility
Mr. Billings: With the -equipment we've got and we have been very
fortunate this year, but with all the equipment we've got its
taken us and last year, and there was one case and these people
didn't happen to be in any great problem - it took us three days
to get to them. We were using 966 Dozer and a snow plow and
everything else in there. They weren't a great distance they
wereabout five miles from a small community but to actually get
from our place in Ault on main highways and everything else
to get to them to find out if they were alright it took three
days. And with these people there is just no way — if they have
a job - say they are working for Monforts - he has to know that
those people are going to be there day in and day out. If they
are working for any industry they have to feel the same way. I
think that Mr. Grant would agree that if five of his people are
living in that area and his milling and elevator is suppose to
turn out so much feed or so many cattle that day and they didn't
show up he is going to have to take his tie and shirt off and
go to work. This is the problem that is going to be created
in this location.
Mr. Lauen: To keep this in the proper prospective are we talking
about just a few days a year in terms of being snowed in.
HIM)
Marshall Anderson: What about your blizzard of 1949? Those kind of people
that you are talking about living out there - those farmers living
out there - they are farmers with tractors with four wheel drive
they know how to fight it. If it gets bad they will go on horseback.
Now I can see those people- coming up - you bring those people out
of the south that don't even know how to dress for this country.
I picked them out in that country a lot of times running around
in a snow drift with low cut overshoes or low cut shoes on. Those
people then you bring them out of the south country putting them in
the worst damned spot in the county.
Mr. Lauen: I have to repeat we are not out of - Gabriel Llanes is not
they really know how to dress. He knows how
to deal with himself in that climate. He has worked there for years
and he know what he is doing. He knows what he is doing when he
pick that particular site.
Marshall Anderson: They don't either. I'll tell you what those guys will be
wearing straw hats in December.
Mr. Billings: One other thing I run in to that - because of the hearing
we had and this was after our hearing I was on a panel for housing
held
in Weld County and throughout the State/here in Greeley - it was a
two or three day panel and I sat on this panel one evening and we
had a great many of these people - none from this group - but we
had a great many people who are needing this type of housing
low cost housing anywhere - so I put this question to these people.
You need this housing where should it be located and how should it
be located? Should it be in groups like you are proposing there
where you are going to have again a total Spanish village and
everyone of them and these are Spanish people, they said no it
shouldn't be that way. They wantto live with all the other, I don't
if you wantto say nationalities or what, but they felt that we were
going the wrong( way in establishing another total area with these
same people, your Spanish that would be th's group that you are
proposing, which you are putting all Spanish people in another area
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 12 FUND
Mr. Billings: and what are we getting from the State level, our legislatures
and from the national level and our schools to break up this _pattern
to get these people intermingled and to located thes-e different people
in the areas and around these towns where there is close work - a big
share of these people told me this at this meeting - and I didn't
indicate what we are talking about but I said we did have a problem
a decision on approving a zone change or a housing project that is
going to be set out and I think I used 10 miles instead of 6, so I
streched it a little bit. I told them it was going to be set out
six miles from town or anything like that and the problem of
transportation and right away the big share -said - well the transportion
we have isn't good transportation and we can'-t be driving these long
distances. We have to be located closer to where we work. These
are the people that I was asking at this housing meeting.
Mr. Lauen: Mr. Billings, the weakness of --
Mr. Billings: Weren't you at that housing meeting?
Mr. Lauen: Yes I was at that housing — the weakness of your argument
asuumes that speaking to some Spanish applies to most Spanish or to
all Spanish. These particular people, these particular indivduals
because of agricultural skills prefer to be in that setting. We
aren't talking about a transportation problem that would deal with
the transportation problems that you are talking about. We already
have in the process a medical facility that would deal with the
medical problems that you ark talking about. We already have in
medical
the process a medical facility that would deal with the/problems
that you are talking about. We are not ignorant or ignoring or
trying to hide from these particular problems we are facing them
very realistically. But this particular group of Spanish Americans -
Mexican Americans this is where they want to live - I think we have
to - you know -
Mr. Nathanson: Also it being, sir, FHA financed project we are really
have
assuming a lot by saying that this community will/only benfit the
Mexican American or the Spanish surname people that live in it.
If that is true it is certainly not our design nor the design
of the members of FREEDOMS. That would have to become a truth
that would be the perpetuation of a pattern that was established
long before anyone in this room was born.
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 13 FUND
MARSHALL ANDERSON: You know what this thing reminds me of - is the Navajo
and the Hopis down between Cortez and Gallup. Those people know
how to live out in there and what did they loose fifteen or
twenty of them out there in that blizzard last year. These
people know how to live in that country. The thing that worries
me about it is - I know you've got to try and sell this deal
but I just can't in good faith after growing up in a situation
like that in the Sand Hill of Nebraska and its the same old sand
it cuts your arms and puts your eyes out. Did you ever have to
hold ahandkerchief over your eyes and nose to get home from school?
Mr. Lauen: I did in Minnesota.
Marshall Anderson: And I mean take your breath away from you. Thats what
you are running into. Those little kids out there - fellows I
can't buy it. There are -too many places in Weld County that we
can do this thing. I would like to sit down with Bill White and
Kenny Monfort and Charlie and talk about it. This thing is clear
out of season, Charlie. Someday when that wind is blowing just
go over on that hill - just to visulize - you know that the
vegetation isn't going to stay. You open 20 acres of that up
and let that wind hit that - put houses on the south end of that
land - why they can't even find their front door. It was really
a doll over there. You thick Highway 85 was rough you should have
been out on that hill.
Mr. Billings: The testimony with Mr. Grant not being here I think
he should know some of this - one reason why we are asking for -
that a test well be driven in the area is that those people who
have lived in that area for some of them indicated 30 or 40
years have a problem that - as the people in the area the wells
in the area dry up - they are quite sparse - but as the well drys
up then they will dig deeper and automatically the other wells
which are - maybe they are 500 to 300 foot wells - I believe this
was indicated, some of them - about 300 was the minimum for good
water. That within not too much time they've got to drill deeper
because this low well had taken their water and this is one of the
reasons that our Health Department simply had to know how much
water was there, whether it would adequately serve the 16 homes
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 14 FUND
Mr. Billings: that would be in the area. I think there is a real
big question mark. There is not going to be enough water - there
might be enough water yes to serve the people in the area but
there is not _doing to be any left over for irrigation of this
land to -grow anything on. This is one of the major problems
that we have in the area. _It was brought out by many of these
people that when a neighbors well did -create probelms and he
had to _put in a deeper well then their wells would go dry.
So they have got a problem out there and they were indicating
that as I remember five gallons a minute or something like that
and if you discount the five gallons a minute and how much each
family is going to use. You use a standard family of - I don't
where we come up with a standard for each family
Marshall Anderson: There is the water expert back there. What is it
Dale - 200 gallons per family?
Mr. Oldenhause: Yes that would be an average but your max is something
like 800.
Mr. Lauen: Well 1 have been through this now for six months, defending
our position to the Planning Commission, to- the Water Engineers
very
I want to say again/precisely that we have to distinguish it between
surface irrigation water and domestic water we have had an abundance
of evidence by local well, water engineers, geoglogists and the
Division of Water Resources that the water is there. We are going
to go thzought extra expense to -case off the Larimie so as not to
violate anybody's water table in the Larimie. All the surrounding
neighbors are in the Larimie we are going through that and casing
off and going into the Foxhills. The Foxhills water is dependable
it is better water and it is one of the reasons we are not hooking
up to a -municipal water system. The high nitrate content in the local
townships is dangerously high.
Mr. Billings: What is going to happen in that area when the farmers
and ranchers in that area go on down to the 900 foot level?
Mr. Lauen: If that happens sir, it has absolutely no relation to
our well because we are casing off the Larimie.
Mr. Billings: I know you are but I say when they go down to the same
depth as you are at. Are they going to deplete this 900 foot level
that you are drawing from and the people living in these houses
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 15 FUND
because this has been the same reaction to this happening on the
shallow wells.
Mr. Lauen: We estimate -some of the function that the Divisions of
Water Resources is doing their job consciously and that is precisely
their jurisdiction to see what the permit should be given based on
the questions that you have.
Mr. Nathanson: I think the man from the State Water Resources was here
at the hearing and said precisely the same thing that these 300 to
500 foot wells really have nothing to do with the water that we
are seeking and that also the water that we are seeking and the
taking of the water from this lower stone would not in his opinion
influence these 300 to 500 foot wells.
Mr. Billings: I was just wondering when they keep this gradual having
to go deeper for wells end they get down to the 900 foot Llevel
then what is going to happen?
Mr. Lauen: You are asking the question about the people in the Larimie
not about the people that are going to be tapping the Foxhills. The
question that relates to how many and the quantity and gall-ons per
minute we are taking water -out of the Larimie - we are not raising
that issue at all.
Marshall Anderson: Well I still think it all goes back to Enviroment.
Mr. Telep: Glenn, I think that when you are talking about whos -depleting
whos water well you are going off in a tangent, I think, because you
can come up with a question of priorities in the State of Colorado
as we are all aware of that first of all the first priority is allocate
water to domestic use - so we don't want to get involved in that.
Marshall Anderson: No but I still think we are living in - with all the
do gooders and the enviormentalist and the ecologists and everybody
that we are going just exactly in reverse of what those people are
recommending. I can go along with some of their theories -and some
of them I don't. But I sure don't want to be a part of moving a
bunch of people out in the sand dunes where I grew up.
Mr. Telep: Mr. Chairman, correct me if I am wrong , but aren't we
waiting to get some reports having to do with water and some additional
factor that you had to consider, isn't that the reason you tabled this?
Board Minutes De-ember 16, 1970 16 FUND
Mr. Billings: We are waiting until we got a report on this test well
that is being drilled and the water it would produce. Has this
been completed yet?
Mr. Lorensen: No, Mr. Chairman, the State did send a water report
and I did send the report over here but as far as the test well
we have not received anything yet. The report did indicate that
there was a well down 850 feet in the area and from what I was
to gain from the report is that they still at that point foresaw
no considerable problems with tapping a well that deep.
Marshall Anderson: Well Charlie I hate to see you and Kenny both get
involved in this thing - the enviormental thing and the kid end
of it and the peoples living conditions, There has got to be
a better place and a better way. I don't think you feelows really
realize the problem and I sure would like to see - you haven't gone
too far yet. God I hate to see those people go out there. Unless
you are a native of that country and turn your coat collar up your
in trouble. What worries me is the kids out in there its the
farthest place from the school district, its right on the edge
of a school district, its at the end of the 60 or possibly 50
mile bus route. The County has 52 snow plows and our biggest
problem right now is the schools busses on these snowy days.
There is no way to get enough snow plows to enough busses to
get these kids there and is just putting problem on top of problems,
plus hardship on people. There is a better place in this County to
do it. I want you guys to think about it in that light. There is
nothing any worse than to go out here and dig a bunch of kids out
of a snow bank and sit out there when the bus had slid off in the
ditch. You don't think its bad - right now in Weld County we have
roads that are blocked.
Mr. Billings: I would like to have you just before you leave take a
look at two pictures that I have that were taken just last year
right out in the open , clear blue skies and yet there is a ground
blizzard blowing so fast that the whole ground here and this is
pretty hard to distinguish, in fact the motor grader and the snow
plow is a 966 loader wasn't 50 feet away and there is a big
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 17 FUND
haze here and I can show you one of the kind of snow drifts that
you are going to run into out there. You can just barley see the
top of the telephone pole behind the loader.
Marshall Anderson: This is one of the biggest problems that we are faced
with in the road and bridge department in this County is 4;500
miles of road and I don't know how many school busses and most
of those school busses are driven by women, and don't want to
show any disrespect or disregard to their bus driving, but we
are just compiling another problem upon the ones we got in the
worst area we've got to fight it in. The bad part of that country
out there is if you get a ground blizzard and it isn' t a big snow
we fight sand and snow and if that isn't something to get stuck in.
Mr. Telep: Mr. Chariman with your permission I would like to ask
Charlie and counsel some questions. Is this the only location
that has been considered, I mean is it possible or probable that
your organization or whomever you reprsent would consider a new
location in view of the fact that there is a opinion or opinions
as to the feasibility of this particular location. I have been
listening here, of course, to both sides and I know that there are
certain biases to overcome and one thing and another and I know the
law and I know that we have to apply the law to the facts as they
are and I know all of that but Marsh has pointedly several times
asked - has this ever been looked into Charlie? I know they have
responsible people on this Board and I know that you guys want to
do what is best under the circumstances and the County is a large
county and in view of the fact that Marsh has such an opinion
which is probably shared by the other two members of the Board -
would you entertain another location because of what has been
brought up here?
Mr. Grant: I think it is an interesting background because of the
site that was chosen I think Mr. Lauen you could tell then what
that background.
Mr. Lauen: We had a site that was orginally - didn't have the rozd
access and didn't have the water conditions and didn't have the electricity
like this land does. On the basis on some very good sound Planning
recommendations we chose this site because it had good access, better
water table and electricity. So we had been open
Board Minutes 1Dergmber 16, 1970 18 FUND
Mr. Nathanson: In a way I think it is more general in and really deals
with it, FUND is not a housing development it is a non-profit
organization and we are not getting any money out of this and
we aren't interested in selling to anybody - we are in to this
project because there are thousands of people who don't have
adequate housing in Weld County now that is a true statement.
Out of those thousands of people who don't have housing - we
began almost two years ago to work with a group of thirty families
who didn't have any housing in Weld County and for whom there was
no housing available. Those people have spent the equivalent
I suppose of 8 months times 25 maybe 20 man years investigating
the question with some very sound technical and professional help
and those 10 to 15 man years of investigating the question by those
people who are going to be the people who need housing have resulted
in this selection of this site because it is much closer to medical
facilities it is closer to jobs, it is closer to roads and you
can bring in utilities and there is adequate domestic water and
there is a great probability of there being irrigation water
available. That is the process - no one has sold them- there
has been a tremendous amount of time by the people involved
and nobody is selling these people anything. They have done this
with access to technical and professional help. I think it is a
very fair question to say it has been their choice based on
thorough and sound investigation.
Mr. Lorensen: Mr. Chairman, I would like to indicate the Planning
Department and staffs participation in this because we did to
some degree. Mr. Lauen came to us with the question and had a
site in mind which was in the vacinity and the strong question
that we had and we still have, and my personal opinion, is we
still had some question as to the location - in the general location
but they presentedtheir views on that a number of times with regard
to its location. But at any rate they had a site proposed, they
either had an option or were prepared to create an option on this
land. I went out there and looked at the land and it was sand
country and it wasn't to far from this site. There was not existing
road to it, it was interior on a section, in fact the land was worse
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 19 FUND
Mr. Lorensen: and what we knew of the water out there - the water
situation was worse. So about this time Mr., who is the developer,
Mr. Lauen: Fred Wiesner
Mr. Lorensen: Mr. Wiesner's subdivision had been through the Planning
Commission and had just been approved for a subdivision and I suggested
that he had the availbility of land somewhere near the area they
wanted, which did have access to county road and possibly that
some of the other factors might be improved. So with this information
they did contact Mr. Weisner.,
and made it very clear as far as being able to serve
the people there they were going to have to prove it step by step
and with the information that the Planning Commission received -
the Planning Commission falt, I think at least Am a form of a motion,
that the people would be -able to be able to be served. Again we
did not address ourself to any other consideration than that of
planning. We, 1 felt, that the people had a voice of where they
would be as long as they could prove that services were available
to the area and otherthan this I feel that the Planning Commission
made no other judgements and that is how the decision was arrived
at.
Mr. Grant: If Imlay ask develop that point of enviormental consideration
a little more - in other words - the Planning Commission did not feel
did not investigate the enviormental question to the greatest.
Mr. Lorensen: Well we lets not call it enviromental - lets call it social
now as far as the enviormental points went we one determined where
was the access on to roads, do you have to build any new roadsfor
this area and one yes they would have to build a new road into this
area, the first site they would have to build a quarter mile of road
just to get to their site and so when they sat down and talked to us
we felt that a quarter of a mile a road just automatically eliminated
it as being a low cost site. So we suggested that they do get on
to a road which is appropriate. Then they came up with the question
of water well in investigating the other site the water was not
as good, They went to the point of going to the State and finding
out what the water situation was and you know you can argue all you
want - you either believe what an expert says or you don't and you
either place faith in the State consultant or you don't. The Planning
Commission decided to apparently.
Board Minutes Decmeber 16, 1970 20 FUND
The next thing was besides the 'eater about the land and they were
talking about a system for sanitation and proposed an idea of
recycling the water and using it for irrigation purposes after
it was used for domestic purposes after it was used for domestic
purposes.
The Health Department looked at it and were apparently
satisfied themselves that this was appropriate, again how can the
Planning Commission question this over well - well they lust
took it at faith that the Health Department in accepting this
had reviewed it, had made a decision_on it and so we went through
each one of these factors of serving these people there and
it came but with all the information that was presented to the
Planning Commission that in every area it appeared that they
had a feasible answer and the decision was made on that basis.
Harold Anderson: Weknow from the people who were here with experience
that this water wasn't fit to grow any vegetables, any flowers
or anything like that.
Mr. Lorensen: Well Mr. Anderson they have also made it clear that
they are not using this water they are going down to a deeper level.
Harold Anderson: Yes but has that water been proven satisfactory? My
idea is this your set up is great - there is no question about it
but it is our duty to protect the people of Weld County from being
place in a very undesirable location, you understand? We have these
things coming up all the time from profit organizations, individuals
who buy a piece of land and they sell it for profit. Well the
people who buy this - get took - We feel like it is our duty
to prevent this at every chance we have because while your not
making any money on this some finance company that is financing
these people on their building is making a profit. If the location
is so undesirable as it more or less proven to us we certainly can't
go along with anything because we need protection. It makes no
difference:to me whether they are Spanish, or Negros or Swedes
they are entitled to protection.
Mr. Billings: I think we have really covered this quite well and I
am glad that Mr. Grant could come down and express his feelings
Board Minutes Decembar 16, 1970 21 FUND
of those people who have been appointed on this FREEDOMS Board
I think we will have to wait until this test well is completed
to see what facilities we are assured of that the water is there
and this would still be no indication that this Board would approve
or deny the location at that time. From notes I have here before
and I didY refer to them - that our previous hearing Mr. Grant
there were 9 people here who were in favor of rezoning of this
and 22 residents in the area in fact about 100 percent of the
residents in the area who were against it, the approval of it,
some of the objections that were made from these 16 families
were against the locating and it is not our decision to decide
whether we approve something because of the school problem or not
indicating there would be approximately 8 children in these 16
families, grade school age and 20 of high school age - that would
create
help/an overloading of the schools. So this is something we have
no .way of making a decision on. I would agree with the other
2 member of this Board that I think that the location is a very
poor location and unless we can come up with some fac-Or that
we don't know at this time it might be that before a decision is
made that Mr. Anderson's suggestion that we meet with you and
Mr. Mouo5ort and Mr. White and the rest of the advisory board
and all the interested people in the area and knowing the land
and would be able to come _up with a much better location than
we have here. A location that would be closer to the working
area for these people, closer to medical facilities and claser
to school facilities I think these are the problems that we the
Board have.
Marshall Anderson: I have been thinking about that sick baby out there
in blizzard and trying to get to him with an ambulance. That
is a long ways even if it is only six miles but you only move
about a half mile when you are fighting that snow.
Mr. Grant: I would like to say one last thing if I may to the
Commissioners before we leave and that is that one consideration
that is very important to keep in mind and at least it is in our
minds and I would just simply like to express it and that is
it is no secret that in many quarters there is a lack of sympathy
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 22 FUND
for this • kind of a project. One of the points that we have been
concerned about is that the project not be criticized to maybe
with - critisima that are really excuses for a lack of sympathy
for this project and that is the reason that we are very determined
of mind in presenting our case in these different hearings. I
think that with respect to some of the residents living in the
area and with respect with some points of view sometimes there is
the danger of opposition being not simply not on the merits of the
project rather with excuses and with other kinds of arguments.
The other, and I am certainly not saying that this is the case
today, I am just sighting that in promoting this kind of a project
that has been on of the things we have had to cope with.
The second point I would like to make is - it is
terribly important for us as trustees to keep in mind the desires
of the settlers themselves. I have had some questions about the
project , not about the project, the site and I have raised them
with the settlers. I have been impressed with their determination
on this particular site. I think back to as Mr. Anderson surely
knows about some of those tough Swedes 100 years ago up around
Rushy who settled on some pretty poor ground that is pretty rocky
how they ever lived through some of those winters I still don't
understand. I know my great grandfather must have had some
tough winters up there and I tend to think there is a certain
importance to a settler whether it is a Swedish settler of 100
years ago or the Spanish or Mexian Americans of today, getting
out on his own even if he fails. Maybe some of these people are
going to have it pretty tough. I am no so sure that it is my
role to present as one of the trustees, to try and tell them
that they have to live someplace where I think they should live,
because I think that is where they are going to be able to raise
crops that I think that they should raise. I tend to think that
with new experiments like this you got to give a lot of attonomy,
a lot of independence, and freedom to the person himself if he
is trying to do something on his own.
Marshall Anderson: Lets don't create another Indian reservation, I have
seen enought of that
Mr. Grant: Thats sxactly what
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 23 FUND
Marshall Anderson: That is exactly what you are going to do out':in those
sand hills. I still think we can sit down - I know of two or
three different locations - I would just like to sit downwith
you and Kenny and Bill and go over this thing because I don't
want to be guilty of creating an Indian reservation out there.
I have seen those Indians with their hogans covered up with snow
and eating their own dogs and everything else.
Mr. Grant: I think it would be beneficial tghave that kind of a
meeting. I would certainly appreciate it if that kind of a meeting
was held but the settlers themselves are in attendance because I
think it is not for me to say where they should live and I would
like to hear there point of view expressed and their opinion of
that area.
Marshall Anderson: All you have to do is to go out there and look at those
shacks of the homesteaders and they are all filled up with sand
and rundown. They couldn't make it there before its all back
to a few of the residents one that could make it and if it hadn't
been for the sprinkler system put in there the Mosiers would have
owned the whole thing and they just run cattle on it - that was
free country there. Mr. Mose Davis old that whole country clear
to the Keenesburg cut-off - that was free range in there one time.
It was big cattle country and a few nestor went in there and they
couldn't make it. Now that they have irrigation down in the
valley they have finally got it but that ridge is not good there
are some people going out there and getting hurt right east of
Brighton. Go out there on a windy day.
Mr. Lauer': Could you arrange a time for that?
Mr. Billings: Yes, I' ll have our secretary see if we can't arrange
a time - we will be waiting for a report on the well - I imagthe
we would have to arrange it sometime after the Christmas holidays
and possibly right after the first of the year because I assume
that many of these people involved in this will probably have
business over the holidays or are doing something.
Mr. Nathanson: Just one point of information when you keep refering
to the test well are you referring to the State's well or the
well that we are drilling?
Board Minutes December 16, 1970 24 FUND
Mr. Billings: The well that you are digging. Whos is chairman
of your advisory committee on this Mr. Grant?
Mr. Nathanson: Gabriel Llanes. Who was here I think you remember him
Mr. Billings: Perhaps we had better address---
Mr. Telep: I think the best thing to do with their permission
here is to address it to whomever you feel should be notified
Mr. Nathanson or you Charlie.
Mr. -Billings: We can address it to counsel.
Mr. Nathanson: That would be fine.
Mr. Billings: We can get the advisory board in on this and those
people who are going to live there and who have been approved
for the loans. There is no reason for filling this room with
a bunch of people or anything else. We can get down to actual
facts of why they feel they need to live there and even as the
water situation we need to know that by the first part of the
year.
Mr. Grant: I appreciate the suggestion of that meeting.
Mr. Billings: We will schedule it and notify you far in advance
so that you can make arrangements for all the people.
Deputy County Clerk
r
L-e-Az J v�^ L,., iC/JL. a��G'art
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7 i V 7 n -clh /
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G
COUNTY Or WELD se.
C t t'=- .. trt t.I2 Clerk of the board
Of Cou.ity COtnntssioner$
N0V 191970
COUNTY CLERIC AND RECORDER
By— _ Deputy
41Wf,; ''4°' 11,ev. r !�
•z't''1
I/ TtGHT ,R.. CITY CONTROL SUGGESTED
, ''''' } ; : n ,-, .., , ,
Center Torn
tentinwd feotn gape 0 4•�-:- — — ——
for'the current fiscal Year was .-
approved, a Denver Housing a
AutAortty tenant group mailed .' a _ First item of business: A cur-
a thin*n... 'attack' on the sort' discussion of the center,
4413norlty.`Oeidbrvengsloyes had - r; third annual meeting of 1970.
helped °ti' ,`the group.'The , Next item of business: A pay
,s �,. `
�cptetes' 'urea^ .� _ the previous fiscal year. All but raise for a division director.
to . Orders ; $75,000 of this was for continu- Board-members pondered, then
down;to'asiifke the anb- ing operation oft Fair Hous- discovered the executive corn-
idy'" had already
paying An a quarterlypro - : ing Center, and the balance Y gone-ahead
this' year•'for the first was for initiation of a pilot withtlie pay raise.
*tlnle, suggesting that the city state-level project. EX-CHAIRMAN CRITICAL
i�( Acoaahtbd ol. to exercise s bit roars The enter now is proceeding
i "This is a damn lousy way to
''"' ontr ' .' i with incorporation of a new or- run this organization!" snapped
ganization to operate on a sta Carl Dixon,-a former chairman
"
Al', poorfamilies p
:„•4come to the'center to seek help ` 3 tewide basis. This new organi- of(the boa Dixonamplified
»tdtat the center .can't supply. zation — which is-to be setup P fed his
"The enter Lapp amts trends sometime late this-month, ac-
a.... remarks. This, he said, was
0.../them off to other agencies !is, corg to 'Lapp rrdfl use only one of many cases in
C' "selected members" of the', which "the board hasn't always
tawtuch can't help them,. either. ROBINSONeen given the straight scoop
MRlds doesn't put a roof over the NSON G.
LAPP _ Denver center staff as consul-
w" Pitfalls will be dodged. I tants. by the director. When you only
r family a heads, but it serves get half-the story, you can only
"as an instrument of pressure. of the center is`to enable
all SEPARATE ORGANIZATION make half a judgment.")
re°gSays Lapp: citizens to realize genuine free- In an interview with The At 10 p.m., the board went
` " "Our philosophy is ,that the dom of choice in selecting their Post, Lapp made it clear the I into executive session. Non-
r, a family goes to the e� housing 'by furthering the new statewide organization will members were asked to leave.
r right _entity and tries to get provision of more housing for attempt to avoid the pitfalls en- At la.m., the executive session
ielp,-the sooner will-come the low income `families in metro countered by,the metro Denver broke up, and the board
"right
when government will do Denver and by changing coin- operation, which will continue members went home, without
�; hat it should do in order to mumty attitudes through corn- as a separate-entity. The state- adjourning the public session.
c ;w mum education in de wide organization will have a Behind closed doors, they
tt.:Ailfilt what it is set up.to do." y _staff
pub- five-to-nnine-member board, in-°^".PURPOSE SPELLED OUT Hefty, counseling and staff as- had:
sistance to action_groups, tech-
member of the present 30- —Overruled t ho exe cutive
The center was established member board.
to would-
t� in January 1860, primarily "te beeB_sponsors and biuilders and Metro Denver Fair Housing s on_iirector'sliay raise.committee action on the divi-
.foster, promote and, secure the lending of weed money. Center's last monthly meeting, —Trimmed t h e executive
,. ,open occupancy of housing for Oet. 27, serves to illustrate the
ic;aR persons m the metropolitan SECONDARY MISSION problem. committee's recommendation
t'*;Denver area,regardless of race, "2) That the secondary mis- ' he meeting was called for that Lapp be-given a raise from
-screed, color, sex,national origin sion of the center is to assist 7:30 A13 to 0 to X21,000, by a vote of
or e:c o n o m iL individual minority members A quorum of 15 13 to 2, they compromised on
or _ancestry 'group and is required to begin $19;600.
^status." poor families with specific the meeting. No quorum.
The center soon found it housing problems . . . pi's secretary got on the RESIGNATION ACCEPTED
its area of "3) That the role of the '
'' necessary 'to shift telephone and started calling. —Accepted the resignation of
emphasis. Middle-income black renter must be as a catalyst of At 845 p.m., a quorum was John_Deasy-as public relations
4t
C,Iamilies were having little, dif- social change and as a facilita- declared. director, after calling him to
:ficulty' Moving to whatever tor and technical adviser to answer quPqiions; it was Deasy
: neighborhoods they.chose. And, others. It is not the mission of who had objected to billing the
. ,for the most part, they elected the center to advocate the pas- Model Litt'grogram for work
:to handle the:move themselves, sage of legislation or to engage he hadn't performed.
,„ ,, thout the help of the center. in digit confrontations with Some of the complaints bear
;w The new area 'of emphasis legally authorities." closer examination. Taking
was spelled out in a report The nee ithjement of policy them one by oar:
tabadopted by the ceases board came on orders of_the Office of
-abf governors last June 15. This Economic -Opportunity, which
'°report states: dangledas 1375,000 in fund-
,.s.'.! That-the primary mission ing—an increase of$99,000 over
cJ
Inner Dissension .
MODEL CITY *USG — McCollum withdrew from any
Jim Patton, of tee Irak further work for the center. "I
Center's business Ofd thought there was a little con-
The Post that the center is per- fusion, since I wasn't sure who
mitted to charge a percentage I was going to work for or who
of certain supervisors' time as was going to call the shots," he little more
legitimate overhead incurred in explained. "I felt it was best should loose ended they - 4 t thorityns with the
behalf of the Model City Pro- that I get out" have "' wore sin Authority now are
gram. In Deasy's case this was ing on the resjllents in Housing v
Mumey said he and Lapp Authority prefects to see how .v ' ''
10 per cent, Patton said. parted friends, and added: "I they liked msiaageme.nt" ent for the Housing
of
g
There appears to be an arith- don't know how anybody APP ,, 'Isfor Housing
meticalY Y can said. "When waloy got wind nof- reluctan to die
problem here, in addi- operate through all that admin- it. , we did some reor """
Lion to the fact Deasy -said he istrative hamstringing."He said zing. ' +•41 8 41 teo,a;week. "At one
did no work in October for-the Lapp sent him "a nice letter These tronbies, he .-added s„ • ' "we did think
Model City Program. The time of congratulations" for his au- "certainly! were thebut I think,
sheet ("Documentary evidence dio-visual work—the slide show ins of growing . road to better
of cash equivalent -contribu- and some radio-television coin lie s '
tions," in Model City parlance) mercials he had prepared.
states that `Deasy worked 88 RESULTS DISAPPOINTING
hours for the.program. Said Lapp: "They didn't pro- 1
Based on -a 40-hour week, duce the results that were ex-
there are approximately in pected—not only in terms of dol-
working hours in a month. Ten tars, but -also in terms of the ex-
per cent of 172 is 17.2. Eight- kinds of performances we had onuYas i, director of the it was more or they control over to e
eight is 10 per cent of 880. A expected by the original a Denver Co Relations:
noted on thatCom-in erdae id. the
30 day month of Z#-hour days went." .,, mushy Relations; in funds," Yasul said. "Over the
has 720 hours. DENVER ,H 0 U STN-.G AU- is ving t fiscal 3 ate city Years' .there's always been
Mike DiNunzio, director of THORITY—This still is a sore ie giving the Fair Ipayme Cen on, an ing controversial going
the Model City Program, told subject with both the center three000 one of payments of on, and they wanted to be able
The Post his agency required and the authority. However, he and one of $7,900• This, to cut the water off at any
that services billed to it be "to- Philadelphia (Phil) Giron, of he said, was docit on "mslruf- time."
tally spelled out." tfoes from the city council of- yaq added that some staff
4466 Mariposa Way, an or- floe!,
"We have to depend on the ganizer of the. Denver Tenant
honesty of the institution," he Congress, said his group got "a Obviasaty reason behind Continued on page 3
added. "It's impossible for us lot"of help from the Fair Hous-
to have a man standing over Mg Center—including use of
each of these guys." printing equipment,
QUESTION RAISED other materials. postage and
If the Fair
admin-
believed the billing
le
ngwas legiti- istration nter Lapp said the city
on never
mate, why did it cancel it? that it was tightening up its
FUND RAISING DRIVE — payments because of the relaa-
Robert McCollum, of Robert tionship between the center and
McCollum Associates, said his the Tenant Congress—but "the
company was retained fora fee word got-here."
of $1,500 to engage in a two- . "Some of our staff
month program of fund raising + were a little bit willy-nilly, a
and public relations. The agree- m
ment was extended to three
months, and the total fee paid
McCollum was $2,100. The
$3,253.88 additional apparently
went for audio-visual services
supplied by a firm headed by
Jack Mumey, Fair Housing
Center records indicate.
V. �.. ..
W_.
' '' �
>I.
g� P C
1 d 5d
if cir
1
HUGH CATHE RW00D
Sees signs ofCARL erDIXON
progress, "A-wider'porspecrive,"
FUND DRIVE MISSES
Continued from page 4. board that they did have some
• • • * members "have been a little very serious problems," Cather-
Cri#ieis Hits abrasive •
regarding the Hous- wood said. "But let me make it
' ing Authority; and that's not a clear that the center is not now,
legitimate function of the Fair nor ever will be, an organize-
, Housing
� �� � Center
7foushag Center" tion without problems.
Dead-end referrals have "The fair Housing Center is
:Groused much Emotional m 1-rently_p 0-p.1 +,e pl....--f
x r. • 1 I
�r�s^ I .
r t t'A ltal*Oft lbsre bees
Mary Dilates, a board a lot of people problems. I
member, charged that the or- really have a very strong feeling '
.ganization is doing "a lot of that these are partly due to
bath passing.-: : :—I--think we-there,being at the center these ,
have failed the people we are contending forces.
Rupposed to be serving." My feeling about the I
, ;,Another board member, Miss center is, let's cure some of f
: Gloria Vigil, said she has de- these things, but,let's also rise
n tected a sense of disillusion- above them. I think the center }
V. AR,, has a at mission.and I think
pia `
d t. fII
1 1.in q
� t
: to them, results are housing us the opportunity to look at
-and loans, and the center is let- things in a wider perspective."
!...4
• tbtg them down." INEXPERIENCE STRESSED
`"M vigil 241tAiNW,10401 But still has ;"a'
' "of all ki�of powerstrugg�tremendous of management
• amagg the staff, "but k really experience," he added. "I think,
cam't get any anawdrs we have to correct a lot of prob-
1 �C erwegd4' a mana�laste before w setactr
taint net our program"
lathed eATPatgling
idle ,caber ea( is Another 'heard member, ;
Y that s.R:.Love of job?
:Pit ,dew fotk .
ass
ks fat what'
fib, Hebb Lapp sod hieSr ',Peking**ltd.'.
JOHN A. LOVE 4F,pF-®F / �� 31j7L,G2�1
Governor yQ / C. J. KUIPER
,k.64 0 State Engineer
sate
DIVISION OF WATER RESOURCES
Department of Natural Resources
101 Columbine Building
1845 Sherman Street
Denver, Colorado 80203
November 13, 1970
Weld County Planning Commission
Weld County Court House
Greeley, Colorado 80631
Attention: Mr. Burman Lorenson
Dear Mr. Lorenson:
Your letter of November 6, 1970 has been directed to me.
A check of our records indicates that there are no registered DEEP
wells within two miles of section 7, Township 2 North, Range 65 West.
The nearest deep well is about three miles south and is 930 feet deep.
Examination of several Petroleum Information Cards indicates the top
of the Fox Hills formation lies at depths ranging from about 650 to
850 feet.
A properly constructed and developed well in the aquifer should result
in a discharge ranging from 50 to 200 gallons per minute.
Water quality records of deep wells in the region will have to be ob-
tained from State or County Health Departments and/or the Water Quality
Branch of the U. S. Geological Survey at the Denver Federal Center. I
might add that records of the quality of Fox Hills water from other
regions indicate the hardness ranges from very soft to hard whereas
waters from the upper Laramie and younger formations are generally hard
to very hard and in some cases are undrinkable.
I hope I have been of some service.
Very truly yours,
Harlan W. Erker
Supervising Engineer A . F
Ground Water Section Co ref' pF WI d 95s
ti, ,;,'to the Clrrk of fhd 8oatd
HWE:JCR:mas
al Eou,ttY Comp yalprleri
NOV 1 1 ;370
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BEFORE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY, COLORADO
-NOVEMBER 4, 1970-
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS )
Glenn K. Billings )
Harold W. Anderson )
Marshall H. Anderson )
COUNTY ATTORNEY )
Samuel S. Telep )
CHANGE OF ZONE
COUNTY PLANNER )
Burman Lorensen )
FUND
)
FUND REPRESENTATIVES ) FOUNDATION FOR URBAN AND NEIGHBORHOOD
Mr. Roger Lauen )
Mr. James Nathansen, Attorney ) DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Gabriel Llanes )
DIVISION OF WATER RESOURCES REPRESENTATIVE )
Mr. John C. Romero )
"A" Agricultural District
TO
PROTESTANTS ) "R" Residentail - "UD Unit Development
Mr. M. C. Sarchet )
Mrs. M. C. Sarchet )
Mr. Ed M. Muse )
Mr. Glenn Nichols )
Mr. Roland Thompson )
Mr. Leonard Anderson )
Mr. W. A. Brothe )
Mr. Robert Mc Peak )
Mr. Kenneth Moore )
Mrs. Kenneth Moore )
Mr. Turnquist )
Mr. Maynard Nichols )
Mrs A. F. Cronin )
RAY & ASSOCIATES WATER COMPANY )
Mr. Phillip Ray )
Mr. Marshall Arlan )
Novembe- 4, 1970 CHANGE OF ZONE
..f F.D.N.D.
IR i F \\I, f i L Lauren Roberts
i 1 Garden Estates
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Mr. Billings: Pursuant to the zoning laws of the State of Colorado, a public
hearing will be held in the Office of The Board of County Commissioners
Greeley, Colorado, Weld County Court House at the time specified. Any
person in any manner interested in the following proposed change of
zone are requested to attend and may be heard. Docket #50. The
applicant asking for the change of zone is F. U. N. D. - Roger Lauen
of 1889 York Street, Denver, Colorado, Date November 4, 1970 at
2:30 P. M. Request of change of zone from "A" Agriculture District
to "R"-"UD" Residential - Unit Development. Mr. Telep will you at
this time make a record.
Mr. Telep: Thank you Mr. Chairman, let the record show that this cause
came on for a hearing this day, November 4, 1970, at 2:30 P. M.
-on the petition for Foundation for Urban and Neighborhood Development
in care of Roger Lauen, 1889 York, Denver, Colorado, for a change of
zone from "A" Agriculture -District to Residential District in accordance
with a planned unit development. For a tract of land more particularly
described as Lot 13, Wiesner Subdivision, located in the South Half of
Section Seven (7), Township Two (2) North, Range Sixty-five West (65)
of the 6th P. M., Weld County, Colorado, Containing 18.2 acres, more
or less.
Let the record further show that this hearing is being held
in accordance with the notice that was duly published as required by
law on September 25 and October 23, 1970.
Let the record further show that the petitioner is present
and represented by Mr. Roger Lauen. Also present and representing
-the petitioner is Mr. James Nathanson, Attorney. Also present is
Mr. James Kent, Executive Director of the Foundation for Urban and
Neighborhood Development.
FUND Change of Zone 2 November 4, 1970
Mr. Telep: Let the record further show that there is on file a copy
of a resoluti-on dated September 9, 1970, from the Weld County
Planning Commission recommending favorably for this change of
zone and more specifically in accordance with the planned unit
development plan on file. Mr. Chairman I believe we are ready
to proceed, Perhaps the petitioner would like to make an
opening statement.
Mr. -Billings: The petitioner, Mr. Lauen.
Mr. Lauen: Thank you, Mr. Billings, My name is Roger Lauen and the
address has been changed from 1889 York Street in Denver to
944 Osage, the Zip Code is changed from 80206 to 80204. I will
not add to the legal description nor will I add to the description
of the zone change from "A" Agricultural to Residential Unit
Development. I would like to say two things briefly before we
get into the specific site development plan and the housing plans.
My occupation is - is trying to get people together to work out
the problems and confront these problems honestly and openly. I
think the amounts of people and the kinds of people that we have
in this room - the people I have been working with and the potential
neighbors that are also in this room is some evidence that we have
a participatory and open and honest in our plans. We have worked
with the people that would move into these homes for eight months
now and we have met with the potential neighbors also present in
-their setting.
It is no secret that the potential residents in this particular
settlement are primarily previous migratory agricultural workers who
are attempting to settle out of the migrant stream and into rural
areas generally. Two or three generations ago, with this particular
group o£ people, homeownership was -a thing of pride and very much
a part of their historical background. One of the attempts and one
of the focuses for this particular project is to renew that historical
reality of homeownership because as we know homeownership is very much
attached to your credit rating for instance. The pride in which you
have in the community from ineeme-•p}-anning and we wanted to
FUND Change of Zone 3 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lauen: move past renting and being tenant of other people to
homeownership. It is also a fact that the lack of available homes
in southern Weld County is very real and one of the things we are
trying to adjust ourselves to is a generation of new construction
of homes in that area.
I think a third point is homeownership would contribute to
the stability of the rural area as opposed to the high amount of
mobility from the rural areas to the urban areas. Historically
what has happened to people without marketable skills when they'
move from a rural area to an urban area is that their skills are
no longer useful in the urban area and therefore they end up on
Welfare rolls. This is one of the things that we are trying to
avoid is to try to predict that this is
going to happen and secure full time jobs and work towards home-
ownership to cut that dependancy - social welfare basis - cut that
kind of dependancy off before it happens. 8o in other words we
are trying to skip a step from being a migrant to an agricultural
worker and then normal step - the historical step is to go to the
urban area and go to job training and social welfare and then try
to stablize. We are trying to skip that middle step. These people
will never have touch the job training rules of the social welfare
rolls - specifically on purpose.
The second major section - the theme - is how have we
done this in the last eight months. I have been in the field now
about a year and a half, Dacono, Frederick, Firestone and Fort Lupton
and the Prospect Valley area and we are very very concerned that
the people that participate in any part of settlement be that
mreation of new health systems, new -housing or whatever, participate
in that planning. Now this is something that sounds like kind of a
glib statement but I am trying to emphasize it for really what it
is. In theprofit making sector consumers don't participate in the
selection of or the designing of their houses. A contractor comes
in builds it - a group of houses - and people then select which one
of those houses they would choose - what they would prefer.
la Faye o_ .one L Novemaer , _970
Mr. Lauen: We are getting the consumer involved prior to that time
before we make any plans on the kind of water system that will be
involved, where the houses will be, what kind of houeses they are
consumers enter into that planning stage at that period. So the
last eight months we have bean - "we have" that is myself and the
developer and many of the field workers for the Foundation of
Urban Neighborhood -Development along with the consumers have
been involved in specifically stating where a group of houses will
go. What kind of a water system do we perform? What kind of water
system will bring low monthlypayments for the best quality of water,
because water is so very crucial on the -eastern slope. How big
should the house be? Whets the cost? What are the materials of
the house? Every single decision that we made - was made with the
people who will be living in the homes that is what has taken us
eight months and I think we would do the same thing if we had to
do it over again.
The third and last section I would like to say some
specific things about the site itself. On record with the
Planning Commission is this particular document showing the outline
of the unit development and the explanation in narrative form on the
other side. I would like to illustrate on this so everybody in the
room and not just the peoplewho have copies of this - describe
what our plans are.
Essentially the 18 acre tract is relatively flat and there
is a low point - very slightly low point in this area and a very
slight high point in this area. We are concerned that (1) the
density of settlement in this particular tract does: not adversely
effect or substantially alter the densities that already exist
in the area. One of the mistakes that housing planners have made
in dealing with this particular population in the past is that have
not taken into account what already exists. So up they go with a
high rise or an eyesore — a physic-al structure and the neighbors
get very justifibly concerned that it will mare the enviorment.
We tried to take into account and S think we have very successfully
FUND Change of Zone 5 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lauen: and the settlement of houses will be on the south end
this is County Road Number 22 here. The County Road Number 39
goes north and south along this side. So the houses in planning
16 of them are on the south end of the 18 acre tract. We did
that purposely - we would like to have apace in this area to
do what precisely what the neighbors are doing - that is trying
to find -auxiliary or supplementary forms of income to support
the jobs that he is already doing in the neighborhood. That is
they raise chickens, tomatoes, whatever you need a little extra
land to 'do that and that is precisely why we kept this open.
The water system that we have chosen in consultation
with Ray Associates of Boulder, water engineers there, we have
representative from that organization present here. It is a
community well in this area to serve all 16 families because
this is the -high point and the community water treatment plant
which will replace the septic system in this area. So the
water would come into the community system here and go back to
the low point -here. I should say just a couple of words about
thin -because we considers at some length about this particular
system. About your water treatment plant is a system whereby
water can be used twice that it gets cleansed through a chemical
churning process and you can then use that water agai-n but it
is used for domestic purposes -here and -sewage here. It gets
cleansed through the treatment _plant and then it can be reused
for irrigation purposes and gardens in the immediate vicinity.
We thought that it was worth the extra cost -because we could
use the water twice. That is why we choose that particular
system.
There are electrical facilities along County Road Number
29 and the Public Service Company has assured us that service to
the houses in this area is no problem at all.
We have begun negotiation with the Greeley Gas Company
to -bring in a natural gas line from the east on west to service
this area which would be of benefit to the residents of the area.
I think you probably are knowlegable that the other alternatives
to natural gas is propane gas and all electric are about twice the
monthly cost of natural gas. We think that bringing a natural gaa
FUND Change of Zone 6 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lauen: line in and not for these particular families but
other residents in the area. We think it will pay itself off
by our calculati-ons in three and a half years. Although the
initial cost of the gas line is substantial. There will be
low - roughly into the area here and a green space in this
area where the playground and picnic tables and places that
people _can use - this will not be - I should start another
piece of paper because it is messy -and you _can't understand
what I am saying. This is amplified where the houses will be
The houses -along this line - 4 there - and houses along this line
Marshall -Anderson: Question -
Mr. Lauen: Yes.
Marshall Anderson: Are those houses going to have an access to the
County road or are they going to be inside there - the confined
area - I mean there will be one access to a county road.
Mr. Lauen: The roads will be here - one road here so the person
would get to a house this way — off County Road Number 22.
Mar-sthall Ander-son: The houses won't face the -county road?
Mr. Lauen: No.
Marshall Anderson: Alright.
Mr. Lauen: This is the green space there i-n the middle. That
is the layout of the land. It is probably much clearly shown
on the preliminary plat. I said there were 1-6 - 4 units here,
here, here and here. I should say something about the houses
themselves. The houses will depend on the family itself - that is
Mr. Yanes with rather a small family will not need a house with
five bedrooms — we are trying to take that into account in our
planning. But another _fellow with five children will need more
than two bedrooms - we are trying to take that into account.
The individual homes will correspond to the size of the family
that will go into the house. All houses, however, will be frame
construction, -they will not be mobile homes, all will be on foundations
FUND Change of Zor^ 7 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lauen: and all will be at 1-east 1,000 square feet in size.
The smallest unit that we are planning now is a 3 bedroom
house. The cost of the house al-one is approximately 312,000.00
The finishing work of the houses will be done -by the families
themselves so this will cut down the finishing costs and the
labor costs. I think that pretty well describes what we are
planning to -do and how to do it. T-he Farmers Home Administration
has given us assurances that they will go ahead with us. The
Rural Housing -Alliance is _giving us 1-ow interest loan to help
defray the costs of the community water and the water sewage
pl-ant. So that is about what I have to say to introduce however
some of the people that are here help take care of the technical
questions if there are any.
Mr. Billings: At this time I would like to ask anybody with comments
on this either way each time give their name and address. This
will help in identifying the person.
Mr.Lauen: To my immediate sight is Mr. Phil Ray from Ray Associates
of :Boulder, Colorado and he is along with his _partner, Marshall
Arlan, have been working with us in designing the water and
sewage systems. Also present is Jim Nathanson, _legal counsel,
as the County Attorney has described. James Kent, Executive
Director of FUND, Jerry Sandoval, field worker with me for FUND
and 1 am not sure if Mr. Koshio is here. There may be a number
of people who are trailing it.
Mr. Billings: _Do you want these people to give testimony as to what
there part in, the development is?
Mr. Lauen: I should think that they are prepared - Micheal Moore
is administrative assistant for the Great Western United Foundation
and she is here to respond to any questions that deal with Great
Western United Foundations support of this program. I should
think that we will begin and now respond to specific inquiries
or questions that may come up.
Mr. Billings: I made a few notes here as you were speaking and you
brought out a point that you were going to develop a well in that
area for water. I would like to ask what type of well this would be
FUND Change of Zone 8 November 4, 1970
Mr. -Billings: and whether there -have been water tests regarding the
type of water that would be necessary for the improvements
for domestic use for this development?
Phil Ray: Sir my name is Phil Ray of Ray -Associates in Boulder
we did a rather extensive examination of the state engineers
_records and the existing wells in the general area of the
_property in question. -Ranging out from a mile and a half to
two miles around. We are suggesting a well approximately 900
feet deep, which would be cased down through the Laramie -Formation
which contains some coals and other contaminates; pressure cement
casing at that -point going into the probancy of the Fox Hills
obtain the water in the lower units. Whether it be a large
diamenter well - 10 inch nominal casing.
Mr. -Billings: How many gallons per minute?
Mr. Ray: We estimate that we can think in terms of the minimum
stable yield of about 15 gallons a -minute.
Audience: Excuse me will you please talk louder or use a
microphone,
Mr. Rav: We estimate that a stable yield will be about 15
gallon per minute or greater.
Mr. Romero: Did you say 50 or 15?
Mr. Rav: Fifteen.
Mr. Billings: For those who mi-ght not have heard - the question
I asked about the well - it has been indicated that the well would
be 900 foot deep and it will produce approximately 15 _gallons per
minute.
Mr. Rav: I might additionally point out that the source requirement
based on the average day for 16 families would 5.2 gallons _per minute.
The source requirement without storage is based on a max day would be
13 gallons a minute. Our -design incorporates the use of a 40,000 gallon
FUND Change of Z. 9 November 4, 1970
Mr. -Ray: treated storage tank to take tare of peaks.
Mr. Billings: This would not produce sufficient water then for irrigation
of crops?
Mr. Ray: No sir, the concept here is that these people - is that
they are acquiring certain surface rights for the agricultural water
required for the development.
Mr. Lauen: I should say here we are talking in terms specifically about
that for domestic use. I only intended when I presented the community
well and the community sewage system for domestic use -only. The surface
irrigation water is still under -advisement. We are still taking the
surrounding
advice of the/neighbors and the Plains Irrigation and Ditch Company.
Mr. Billings: Probably it would -be advisable if you would go into more
det-ail about the operation of your sewage plant there for the people
present so they will be more -familiar with this plant and how it is
operated.
Marshall Arlan: I am familiar with that, I am Marshall Arlan, a registered
professional engineer in Colorado and am with Ray and Associates,
29O5 -Pearl Street, Boulder, Colorado. The sewage system that is
under consideration is the bio-pure system. It is an anerobic
digestion type -system. It has certain advantages over some of the
larger systems in that it works on what is considered to be a batch
principle. A problem that is -common to -small sewage systems of this
type is the intermittent supply of sewage, which in the usual system
produces an excess of the product to be digested by the bacteria
part of the time and then the balance of the time there is not
enough so the bacteria dies off. In this system the sewage is
accumulated and it is exposed to air in the first -digestor and _i-t
is kept in that digestor fora specific period of time. Then it
second
is pumped out into a/set of -accumulators in which the -solids
of the undigested portions of the sewage it -settled out and the
clear portion is pumped in to the third storage. The settled out
portion is pumped back in to the original digestor for further
digestion.
FUND Change of Zone 10 November 4, 1970
Mr. Arlan: In the third section the affluent is also settled
and it is treated with chlorine to kill all the chloroform type
of life in it and to further reduce the BOD, for those
who are sewage experts, and again this is the settled portion
of this again and this is returned to the first digestor and
the clear portion is the affluent that will be pumped into a
30 day storage pond out of which they will use the that portion
of it that they wish for irrigation purposes.
Mr. Billings: Does anyone have any questions?
Marshall Anderson: One question on this water - have you any proof or
assurances that the water at 900 feet is going to be fit to drink?
bores
Mr. Rav: From the examination of other well/ that we have examined
Marshall Anderson: Some of those wells out there are pretty sorry.
Mr. Rav: That is true and a great majority of them have been
improperly completed and they are getting contaminated water from
the upper sand and coals.
Marshall Anderson: I know a lot of those wells have gone sour out there.
Mr. Billings: Harold, you had a question?
Harold Anderson: I was wondering if there is any surface water allocated
on any parts of the land?
Mr. Ray: I would have to direct that back to Roger, we examined
certain ditch rights - I want to say the Spear Ditch and the owner
or the developer of this property Mr. Wiesner has some surface rights.
There are some problems connected with the use of that - I say it
runs part of the year not all of the year, also there are some
substantial losses through the - part of the ditch - at the present
time. Some discussion has been held with a gentlemen about obtaining
certain irrigation rights from him. But predominately for irrigation
use rather than run for domestic use. We feel very satisfied that
we can get a well route that will satisfy the domestic requirements.
There is no way you can satisfy both the agricultural and the domestic
FUND Change of Zone 11 November 4, 1970
use by the well, you simply can not get those productions out there
not for decent water anyway.
M Lauen: I would like to add to that one of the reasons we
have taken the irrigation water - surface water - under advisement
instead of going ahead with it like we originally planned is simply
return
because of the expense involved is high and its4s not very good.
We would like to consider different uses of this open space such
as raising chickens or something like that. Only because of the
expense and the unreliability of the surface water.
Mr. Billings: You stated that on these homes that you are proposing
to build there that actually the owners of the home will finish
these homes - is there a time limit on this - in other words
if this were granted as soon as you have 16 families who would
move into this project is there any time limit on how long it
is going to be before these homes are finished, so they would
meet the standard of a finished home in Weld County? Or is this
going to be strictly up to the person who owns the home when he
finishes it or could it possibly stand for a number of years?
Mr. Lauen: I should say first we do have 16 families and
secondly the stipulations of the Farmers Home Administration and
the County Engineer guide us in the level and quality of construction
of those homes. Thirdly they will be contractor built so they are
not going to be left in a rough shell form. The outside, the roof,
the paint on the outside, window wells and so forth will all be
completed befo±e any family moves in. The finishing aspects of the
home will all be internal - that is in some cases one family has
30 hours a week available they prefer to choose to installl the wall
board, plastering and stripping and painting. The next guy may have
only 10 hours a week free so he may only do inside painting. So the
level of finishing will depend upon the amount of time per family.
But the external finishing will be done with the contractor.
Marshall Anderson: What do you have to do to qualify for one of these homes?
FUND Change of Zone 12 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lauen: Just walk up Ninth talk to the new county supervisor
of the Farmers Home Administration, Richard Lengel and ask for an
application.
Mr. Billings: This is then not a fact low cost housing - available
for anyone who wants a home in that area regardless of their income.
Mr. Lauen: It is specifically for those who have income earnings
within the range of approximately $3,500 to approximately $6,500 to
$7,000 a year. So there is a minimum amount of money that you should
-earn before you can be seriously considered for approval and a maximum
amount of money over which you can buy and presumably-you--could buy
the amount that was the minimum - maximum range income so to speak
it isn't a pick or exclusion process.
Harold Anderson: Do I understand this right? Now you have 16 families
for these houses?
Mr. Lauen: Right.
Harold Anderson: Any additional houses would not be built until you
had the family in need of them?
Mr. Lauen: Thats right.
Mr. Nathanson: Roger, no additional houses beyond 16 will be built on
this property. The development is for 16 units and if there are
additional families that we would encounter that would want to
build a house in this fashion we would look for other land or other
sites.
Mr. Lorensen: Mr. Commissioner, the planned unit development that is
proposed 16 can be built on this land only - no more.
Mr. Billings: Our requirements if I read the manual right are for
13,000 square feet and you are asking for a minimum lot size of 7,500
what is the Planning Commission decision based on as far as this change
in the lot size?
FUND Change of Zone 13 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lorensen: It has been changed to primarily to the unique aspect
of which they are approaching it. You take a parallel example if a
home were required to meet the uniform building requirements it tells
you exactly how you would have to build your house within a certain
range and what they are developing on here is performance standards
this is the way they are approaching it. They are saying that they
tan get their water and that they can take care of .the sewage
in a satisfactory manner. There is some attempt to make them prove
this and they felt that if the performance standards were there
then it would be satisfactory to depart from the normal standards.
Marshall Anderson: Are these going to be under the jurisdiction of the
uniform building code?
Mr. Lorensen: The houses? Yes sir, they are required to have a
building inspection and the uniform building code like any other
Structure.
Marshall Anderson: Who is going to enforce that after they take over?
How are you going to give themtafinal on a.project like this?
Mr. Lorensen: There will be some concern the way he was discussing it
right now we have not used a certificate with occupancy which has been
a normal way of doing this in organized areas. The building inspectors
have been relying on their judgement as to when it is safe to inhabit
these when they are not entirely finished. It is primarily done on a
judgement angle. I would assume from that this to when they deemed
total
it to be unsafe to move into aefore the/construction was completed
we would not allow them to do it until we felt that it was safe.
Marshall Anderson: You are already deviating from you rules - the uniform
building code. How can you make exceptions- is there any way Sam?
Mr. Telep: I don't know the thing that comes to my mind is the
FHA spending money on these and not being fully finished - wall
board and things of that nature I was just wondering about that
could you clairfy that? That is the only observation I have
had many experiences with the FHA - is that Farmers Home Administration?
FUND Change of Zone- 14 November 4, 1970
I know that they will demand an inspection on their own before they
release the claims.
Mr. Lauen: Let me say to Mr. Anderson, we are not asking for any
deviation from the uniform building codes. The people abide by all
the building codes that exist. The ones now in process and the ones
that are more recent amendments that have come subsequent to this
date. This is our agreement with the Farmers Homes Administration
as well as it is with the Planning Commission and this route.
Mr. Lorensen: Mr. Lauen, I think his question comes more direct
at what point do we allow occupancy?
Mr. Lauen: I see.
Mr.Lorensen: We assume that they are going to be built to the uniform
-building code.
Mr. Lauen: If the uniform building code has a particular statement
to that issue that occupancy can not take place and then they make a
list of it has to have wall board, it has to have certain things, we
will abide by that. We are not a king any deviation from that.
Mr. Billings: Is there any recommendation by the Health Department,
Mr. Lorensen? I don't see any attached to this a sewage plan or anything
or any information about the water?
Mr. Lorensen_ Mr. Glenn Paul was at two separate meetings when this
appeared before the Planning Commission and although he has not
submitted anything in writing the only thing I can give you is my
recollection and he felt that the - that there was a possible surface
water problem as far as using surface water. He felt that if they
were going to use surface water for their - for the people then he
would not approve it. But the well was a different situation.
So generally he approved it or I felt that he approved of the deep
waters or the deep well. He also wanted - it appeared to me - wanted
more information or better judgement of the bio-pure system and he
really never did make judgement of the bio-pure system in my belief.
FUND Change of Zore 15 November 4, 1970
Mr. Billings: Will you contact him and ask him for a written recommendation
of the known facts of this development of this development?
Mr. Lorensen: Yes sir.
Mr. Billings: Is there anyone else who is here who would like to give
testimony?
Mr. Lauen: If subsequent geustions come up we will be glad to respond to those
particular questions.
Mr. Billings: There are a number of people here and undoubtedly some of
you are not in favor of this is there a spokesman for this group-who
would not be in favor it it - anyone individual that could express---
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. Chairman, I am M. C. Sarchet I have been asked by some
of the local area people to act as spokesman for them and since this
zoning is posted a number of people have asked to be represented by
petition since they felt they could not be here in person. So a petition
has been signed and we would like to present that petition at this time.
I will ask Bernice Sarchet to read it, the heading of it and the number
of signatures.
Mrs. Sarchet: My name is Bernice Sarchet,
Mr. Telep: I think that ought to be read into the record Mr. Chairman
it might be a good idea to acertain who circulated it.
Mrs. Sarchet: The reason we did this is because we are concerned about
people, we are not concerned about cheap land, whether land is a few
dollars cheaper in the sandhills than it is in a practical place. For
this reason we wrote this petition. "We the undersigned propose the
reason to rezone the East Half of the Southeast One Quarter of the
Southeast Quarter of Section 7, Township 2 North, Range 65 West, from
"A"Zoning District to "R UD" Zoning - Request Number Z-165 in the
proposed migrant and low income familes project for the following
reasons:
1. Insufficient water supply far domestic use.
Man has done many things but he has never yet produced water.
2. Poor soil is not adaptable to growing garden crops.
FUND Change of Zo^Q 16 November 4, 1970
I have lived in this area and at time have kept records on this
particular land and 1 know what the soil will produce. I have
been a member of this _community for 44 years and I know the
land around this, and in this land, and on this land, all those
years. *The Speer Ditch supplies water for this area can straw
water only from the top part of Barr Lake. For this reason
the last run of water is usually in the first part of July.
This is a matter of record.
4. There is no employment in this area and it is an
unreasonable distance for these people to travel to places where
jobs are available and then there is very limited telephone service.
There is absoulutely no fire protection available. There is no
medic-al assistance, no shopping area nearby, no local law enforcement.
The long distance that the xhildren have to travel to school. The
project would result in a very segregated community which is a
very undesirable thing.
Mr. Sarchet: In support of the reasons we could call somepeople to
testify. I call on Mr. Muse.
Mr. Muse: My name is Ed Muse and my address is Star Route, Box V.A. 11
Hudson, Colorado.
Mr.Mr. Sarchet: Are you familiar with this tract of 1-and?
Mr. Muse: I live straight across the road to the south of here.
Mr. Sarchet: How long did you live on that land and farm it?
Mr. Muse: :From lx341, I believe it is til this past spring.
Mr. Sarchet: wring that time did you put down a deep well?
Mr. Muse: Yes, I did put down a sleep well - I think it was in 1947
supplied a lot of
and this well was herd-wed} water. I raise cattle and 1 had lots
of them for about 10 years, then one_ day why the pump - the pump
was settin there. I got Holden and Holden over there and they
started pulling pipes - we thought something was wrong with the pump.
* Reason Number 3
FUND Change of Zone 17 November 4, 1970
Mr. Muse: The water level in this pump had dropped 190 feet and
so -they drilled a well -on it and they said when this one goes
dry well they will all go 625 feet said all of its if it drops
that much more its about out of water.
Mr. Sarchet: How many gallons per -minute would this make that pump —
pump?
Mr. Muse: Well its gettin 6, 3 guess its a working head and pumping
it over 325 feet - 1 don't know what the 'capacity would be, it
couldn't be 200 gall-on and hour perhaps or 250 I know it couldn't
be 6.
Mr. Sarchet: And with that amount of pumping the=water level did drop?
Mr. Muse: The water level did drop for some reason 190 feet.
Marshall Anderson: Was that water fit to drink, Ed?
Mr. Muse: Well the water is alright to drink but you can't grow
flowers or anything like that — they just won't grow in this and
you £-an't grow -a garden in this water because there is too much
of soda or something that get in and that is it.
Mr. Sarchet: Over this 30 year period did you irrigate from the
Speer -Canal?
Mr. Muse: Yes.
Mr. Sarchet: Do you consider it alright for growing garden crops?
Mr. Muse: 1 tried to grow garden crops - I was _raised on truck
farming and I have only grown a few tomatoes the last few years.
It isn't suited. Whenever your water goes out in July the tomatoes
need water for another month and beans - the only thing you could
grow is -early tomatoes.
Mr. archet: What is the distance from school for this glace?
Mr. Muse: About 8 miles to grade school, the high school is about
6 or 7 farther.
Mr. Sarchet: About 20 miles to high school.
FUND Change of Zone 18 November 4, 1970
Mr. Muse: I know the _children are bn -the bus _quite a while. They
haves to go around on the different routes you know.
Mr. Sarchet: Is this land in a fire district?
Mr. Muse: No, or mine isn't.
Mr. Sarchet: I don't -think I have any further questions. Does anyone else.
Mr. Muse: If anyone -thinks these peopl-e out there might be prejudiced
as to Spanish Americans. The last 4 or 5 years we had school out there
before they consolidated we had a Spanish American teacher, Mrs Lopez
taught school . So it is -not that.
Mr. Sarchet: Thank you. Is Mr. Slenn Nichols -here?
Mr. Nichols: My name is Glenn Nichols, my address is Route 2, Ft. Lupton.
I live on the place for 18 years which is 2 northwest.
Mr. Sarchet: You are familiar with this site on this project then?
Do you consider it _good soil for growing 'garden crops-?
Mr. Nichols: I do not.
Mr. Sarchet: You are familiar with -the Speer Ditch? The water in it?
Mr.Nichols: Yes sir.
Mr. Sarchet: to you attempt to grow garden crops from the Speer Canal?
Mr. Nichols: No — we couldn't. As Ed has said there would be a few
of the early crops that would grow without water there isn't enough
water to last. most of the time we have weeks of
early spring water. It just doesn't take care of it.
Mr. Sarchet: When you use the Speer Canal, what crops 'do -they grow?
Mr. Nichols: Well crops that I
grow and the -neighbors around is hay, ensilage corn, rye i-n there
Mr. Sarchet: Do you have a deep well on your place?
Mr. Nichols: I do.
Mr. Sarchet: How beep is it?
Mr. Nichols: Six hundred feet.
Mr. Sarchet: Did you -replace a former well?
Mrs, Nichols: Yes, about -4 years ago - about -a
half a mile west of my placeI put Am a new well a stock water well
and I suppose we used it about 3 months and my well didn't _pump any
water. So 1 had Holdens out and drilled a new well & we went deeper to get it.
Mr. Sarchet: In other words since you have beenthere the water table
has dropped
° ie 9 November 4, 1970
Mr. Nichols: Yes, and it is no secret, the well drillers will tell
you that
Mr. Sarchet: Thank yon. Is Mr. Thompson here?
Mr. Thomspson: Mr. Chairman, mny name is Roland Thompson of Route 2
Box 206, Fort Lupton, ,Colorado.
Mr. Sarchet: Where do live from this project?
Mr. -Thompson: I live about -a half mile north of this project.
Mr. Sarchet: How long have you lived there?
Mr. Thompson: Well, a little _over three years
Mr. Sarc-et: During that time have you had anything to indicated that
the water table is dropping?
Mr. Thompson: Yes our - we ran out of water - we got inquiring and
checking -around and the water table had dropped. We had to add on
about another 125 feet of pipe in order to continue having water
from the same well. It is a deep well -600 and some feet deep.
Mr. Sarchet: Thank you.
Mr. Billings: I would like to ask this gentlemen a question? You
say you -are a half mile from there. This gentlemen said he had
to go deeper becausa of a man putting in a well deeper — -because
of-e-area-pattsag-la-a-we}}-deeper how far is your property from
the manwho put in a new well?
Mr. Nichols: I was between a quarter and a half
Mr. Billings: A quarter and a half mile.
Mr. Nichols: Yes he was right west of me.
Mr. Billings: Now you had to 'go how many -feet deep to get water after
he put i-n his new well?
Mr. Nichols: Well - I would say we put in 75 or maybe more of pipe
in the new well
Marshall Anderson: Mr. Nichols, what is the quality of that water in thosa
wells?
Mr. Nichols: It was just like the ,dells around it — it is drinkable
you can't grow flowers in it. It is acceptable water.
Mr. Billings: Yon -don't have the water tested to see what --
Mr. Nichols: Yes we do have.
FUND Change of Zone 20 November 4, 1970
Mr. -Billings: Testing what does it indic-ate - what is in the water?
Mr. Nichols: I don't know that — it has been tested
Marshall Anderson: Would you happen to have those results of the tests?
Mr.Nichols: You can get them from the Health Department. I am a
dairyman and once a year I have to take a test. I guess I could find
out too. It tells if they will let us keep a dairy.
Mr. Billings: Mr. L-oransen would you check with the Health Department.
Mr. Lorensen: Yes sir.
Marshall Anderson: Is that the State Health Department or the Lounty?
Mr. Nichols: It would be the State. I am pretty sure its not the
County it would have to be the State.
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. Leonard Anderson.
Mr. Anderson: 1 am Leonard Anderson of -Route 2 Box 203, east of fort
Lupton. I live two miles south of this proposed site I have been
there for maybe six years. I have a deep well it is 650 feet deep
drilled in 1955. At that time the water table was at a static level
I mean after it was pumped it was 180 feet below the surface and
right now today it is 315 feet -below the surface it has dropped that
much on my property.
Mr. Sarchet: You have had to add pipe?
Mr. Anderson: Well 1 -have added pipe about 1'8 or 19 pipe lengths
Recently about a month ago I had to replace the pump in it a submersible
pump and it was on a Sunday - that the water table dropped so much
again that 7 should have had a pipe on it but it was Sunday and couldn't
get anybody, H+• didn't have any with him. It is right at the level
now that it is pumping right out of the pump.
Mr. Billings: How deep is your well now?
Mr. Anderson: It is 650 feet. The pump is about 315 or 320 feet
there is that much pipe in it - the water table has dropped that
much.
Mr. Sarchet: Have you had your water tested?
Mr. Anderson: Well just the same as Mr. Nichols has - as a dairyman.
Mr. Sarchet: The dairy requires that you have it tested.
-FUND Change of Zone 21 November 4, 1970
Mr. Anderson: Yes, it has to be tested every year whether its you
or the Health Department tests it.
Harold Anderson: Do you have any idea at all how many solids there
are per million parts of water.
Mr. Anderson: No I would not have any idea. Like we say it is
hard on house plants and all plants - it is a soda water. I don't
know what that does to them - but it isn't good for them.
Mr. Sarchet: We in the community feel that it is not a good site
for this proposed project for the reasons that are given in the
petitions, water supply, additional pumping. Personally I don't
think that 16 families can get by on one well- that supplies 15
gallons per minute. Most of the wells out there supply about this
amount and have one family on them and are pumping water for cattle.
The water table is receeding under that use. My own well is a
shallow well and we pump 10 gallons per minute which at times is
not adequate for our house.
The soil in this area I have lived on the adjoining
property for 40 years and I don't consider this particular tract
as suitable for production of irrigated crops. The water supply
or pastures
is probably adequate most years for alfalfa hay/or mixtures of
grass that don't require too frequent of irrigation or a late
irrigation or an early irrigation for most garden crops.
Marshall Anderson: Mel what school district is that in - Hudson?
Mr. Sarchet: In Re. - 3.
Marshall Anderson: Is that Hudson?
Mr. Sarchet: Roggen
Prospect, Hudson,/Keenesburg all south of there is in
Re. 3
Marshall Anderson: Then those children would have to go to school at
Keenesburg.
Mr. Sarchet: The high school would be south of Keenesburg. We have
a consolidated high school and the grade school is Hudson. However
the Hudson Grade School is now over crowded and they are taking
part of those grade school children to Keenesburg.
Mr. Billings: Do you have anyone else you want to call?
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. Thompson.
FUND Change of Zone 22 November 4, 1970
Mr. Thomspson: I just have a couple of items here on the same order
as Mr. Sarchet here. In the schools you have the schools being
over crowded. I have a boy who goes to class at school with
74 children, with two teachers and this has been consistant
for the past couple of years. I feel it would be an added burden
to the school district itself.
Mr. Sarchet: The reason I am opposed to the goals and aims of this
FUND to provide housing for migrant people - we don't feel that this
is a suitable location for these people because of the water supply,
the distance they would travel to employment, there is no fire
district and for various reasons that we have recited: We would
like to state that we think that the use of this land as agricultural
and not residential unit development. The number of signatures on
this petition, I think is approximately 300 — 284 at the last time
I counted them there has been some signatures since then.
Marshall Anderson: These are all people, Mr Sarchet, in the school district.
Mr. Sarchet: The majority of these people would be within the five
mile radius - and come out as far as twelve miles. The biggest
percent of them would be in this school district, some in the
Platteville and the Fort Lupton School District. This area is
inbetween Fort Lupton and Platteville. The phone there is out of
Hudson. The School District if Re.-3. Right in here is not served
by any fire district, the Platteville Fire District ends a couple
-of miles north, the Fort Lupton Fire District ends to the west
and the Hudson Fire District ends to the south. So it is inbetween
three communiti-es.
Mr. Billings: Do you have anyone else that you want to call an?
W. A. Brothe: I am W. A. Brothe of Route 1, Tort Lupton, Box 258-R
How does this compare with the labor camp that was destroyed at
Fort Lupton?
Mr. Sarchet: Maybe some of these people could answer but it is my
_understanding this is a different situation altogether.
Mr. Brothe: Well I will ask another question then - is this intended
for migrants or for anybody?
FUND _Change of Zone_ 23 November -4, 1970
Mr. Sarchet: I think Mr. Lauen answered that question some time ago.
I think that anyone that applied who qualified would be eligible
I don't know - some special requirements before the BHA finances
them or is this a special FHA loan - interest free.
Mr. Lauen: The answer to your question sir, is that anyone that
falls into this income range - and both the farmers Home and the
FHA
Mr. Brothe: Are these for Welfare -families or for workers?
Mr. Lauen: Workers that fall - you have to have a full time job
to be able
Mr. Brothe: Well that is -a _poor location you get a big snow
and any one can tell you that you won't get on the -highway
whether you are working in here or in Greeley - you iget a big
snow and you will have a time.
Mr.Lauen: I have trouble getting out of my driveway in _Denver.
Mr. Brothe: I would like to know what that labor camp in Lupton cost
is that involved?
Mr. Billings: Z think this is something that doesn't pertain to the
hearing. I don't think you could find the figures on that anyway.
Mr. -Brothe: It seems to me a waste of -our money (change of tapes)
qualified to put on wallboard. I have seen some considered experts
do a pretty sloppy job. -I have put on wall board myself and S know
what it is like - I know something about it.
Mr. Billings: Let the record show that do have four petitions here
Numbers 1, 2, and 3 and 4 with a considerable amount of -names on
them, against the granting of this petition. It will be accepted
into the record and will -be turned over to our County Attorney for
any clarification that might be needed.
Robert McPeak: S live at Route 2 Box 192, Fort Lupton, I am kind of
curious when he was starting - -he never did tell us what the sewer
was like, what it was going to take. Is that included in that included
in the picture, or in the penaLties or will that take additional water?
1<. Sovemoer 4, 1970
Mr. Lauen: I am not sure - the system is designed to satisfy the
sewage flow from 16 families, which is anticipated to be, approximately
7500 gallon per day.
Mr. McPeak: You mean 750D gallons per day will -operate this facility?
Mr. _Lauen: Right, and on an average basis that is 5.5 gallons per
minute.
Mr. McPeak: There is something else I would like to add, this is real
good country and a like to live out there, has anyone mentioned about
our little sand storms and the elements. Are these people going to be
adaptable to this kind of living?
Mr. Lauen: I am not going to be a resident down there. 1 would like
to address that to Mr. Gabriel LLlanes who will be a resident down there
and maybe you could say if you are or are not adapted to the area.
Mr. Llanes: I live in Fort Lupton, 157 First Street and in the matter
of adopting to climate or rain - storms - you have never been -a migrant
yourself — but when you are a migrant you adopt to everything because
you can live through that - and if we have walls around us - that is
what we need to protect us from the elements.
Another thing - I was anxious -to answer questions. I have
been raised in Texas and I have been travel for many states but where
I was living for part of a year anyway - this sand - pure sand in Texas
they don't have no irrigation system there it is :only the rainfall and
still you see in Safeway - you see the watermelon - -they call them
Texas Grey - they came from , Texas, right in that
area there and they grow yes - tut they _only have one or two rains.
Its a lot of things you can grow — with little enough water if you know
how to grow it. If you don't know how to grow it you -can have a tons
of water there but when you do you ruin the roots. So 1 don't think
this is so anyway I like the place for two reasons - in my whole life
it is the first chance I tave to own something - something that belongs
to me - something that can make me proud to be -a man and secondly the
land is good to grow things on - not everything. I had taken some
dirt from there, -Friday and had it tested, and it can be grown tomatoes
and beans and some other vegetable there with help of a fertilizer.
FUND Change of Zrne 25 November 4, 1970
I don't -have the records hers of which Z have spoke because I
don't have i-t. But they told me there yesterday I would have
to have some zinc or nitrate or differentthings but it can be
growing something. Many times I was _picking potatoes grown
by there 10 years ago and it was very good potato there, I don't
remember the name of the farmer but it is only about a -mile -and a
half vast of the location which we wanted and its only been 10 years
ago and I don't think the 1-and can be ruined around there- be ruined
all that there is around there.
Audience: -Does the fertilizer - if you keep using fertilizers
you :realize you can make your soil sterile?
Mr. Llanes: But we did Friday - I already - I work for Wycon
in Fort Lupton period of time and I learned how to test the ground
that is how to get the sample. :o I get the samples and turn them
into the office, they turn it in and bring me the results of it.
Mr. McPeak: But they didn't tell you that after you keep using
commercial year in and year out then you make the ground sterile.
Mr. Llanes: They don't even know where the land is at.
Mr. McPeak: Yes, but did they tall you that when the ground is
- using commercial fertilizer year in and year out it will make the
ground sterile?
Mr. Llanes: I know that myself - see I want to -bring this out,
because it is something that can be Slone.
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. Chairman, _I understand there is -a representative
here from the State Engineers -Office, the Water Resources Office,
Mr. Harlan Herger, we asked him to attend to answer any question
and he wan't able to be here. Ti believe the gentlemen over here
it from the Water Resources. Perhaps someone would like to ask
him questions about the underground water in this area.
FUND Change of Zone 26 November 4, 1970
Mr. Romero: I won't venture to answer any question in regards to
fertilizing land.
Mr. Sarchet: No I mean as to the formation there and the possible
water supply. Is this in the underneath the Fox Hills Formation
Mr. Romero: Yes.
Mr. Sarchet: Isn't it true that usually where this has been pumped
the water table are going down.
Mr. Romero: This is true throughout the entire Denver Basin and
Colorado Springs too to about five miles north of Greeley.
Mr. Sarchet: There is no or very little recharge through the formation
Mr. Romero: Well we believe that pumping rate exceeds the recharge
rate but we are investigating this right now and we should have the
study complete shortly.
Mr.Sarchet: I believe this is all the question I have, perhaps the
Commissioners have questions or someone else will have questions.
Marshall Anderson: You are more concerned with amount of water rather
the quality aren't you?
Mr. Romero: Right, our records show that the quality of water from
the Larimie-Fox Hills is good as compared to the quali-ty of the shallow
water. The parts will range in the Larimie Fox Hills will range anywhere
from 50 toabout 500 to 700 parts per million, whereas, your surface
water the -total disolved solids will range anywhere from about 100
to over 1000. So by comparison you watid say the Larimie-Fox Hills
water is stable - high quality water. The prohlcm comes from certain
water bearing zones in the _Larimie -formation when you get the very
poor water with the sulfate and chloride and possibly iron and I
don't know what all but some of the Larimie water zones are very poor
Mr. _Lorensen: Mr. Romero may I ask you a few questions? At 900 feet
is this a good water bearing level?
Mr. Romero: Our records show that most of the wells in the area —
the deep wells - range from 20D - 500 to 600 feet deep. We don't have
records from wells that deep in this area so I can't say one way or
another whether one will be poor or one will be bad. Good water, the
records on goodwater come from deep wells in other areas and it just
so happens on most of the water from the Fox Hills and
is good compared to your surface waters. We have no records of water
quality in this particul-ar area. I am just extrapolating -from other
areas
FUND Change of Zono 27 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lorenaen: Could you tell me if 15 gallons per minute -as estimated
is that a reasonable figure and will it serve a population of 16
familes with a 40,000 gall-on water storage.
Mr. Romero: Fifteen gallons -a minute will produce about 21,600 _gallons
per day if Mr. Ray is correct well that is what they call for - then
the 15 gallon pump will -do the j-ob. It is a question of whether or
not - well 40,000 gallon storage sounds alright too, as far as I am
concerned. It will have to possibly pump quite -often. One question
I imagine
that might arise is what your peak load will be -/the peak load
occurs sometime between 4 and 7 at night - I just don't know this
is something that is speculative from my point.
Mr. Lauen: Mr. Commissioner, this is something that the Foundation
has investigated a good bit of time and a good bit of money I might
add, at the displeasure of Mr..,Kent, our director. Paying for this
kind -of analysis, it seems to me like Mr. Sarchet has raised essentially
two issues that is the issue of surface irrigation water and the amount
of and the quality of the soil that is one distinct issue. The other
one is the reliability of domestic water. I would like to turn over
the latter question that is domestic water to Mr. Ray so he could
explain precisely what we -have invested and applied amount of time
and -a lot of money.
Mr. Rav: I would like to use that, if -I could please. First of
all let me say one thing. Mr. -Sargent has had four people talk about
the condition of their wells and their wells and the water they are
using at their wells and -deriving : is not the water we are talking
about. Let me make that point extremely clear. Most of the wells
that these people - I didn't get the depth of Mr. Muse's well - could
you tell me the depth sir?
Mr. Muse: I think around 600 feet.
Mr. Ray: All these wells are within 50 feet of one another, bottom
out, somewhere in the lower land you would never make it into what I
call the Fox Hills in the first place. In the second place we are
talking about well that is drilled down approximately 600 feet - large
diameter hole - set large diameter casing and pressure oement and
\ovemoer �, _v/U
Mr. Ray: seal off that water. There is very little vertical
of water
movement/around through the Larimie-Fox Hills sequence. An
intermitant sequence of sandstone, shales, clays, marrals -and
cules and very 1i-ttle porosity. I think you gentlemen from the
State Engineers -Office would agree with me. When you seal off
this miserable water up here endthat is what 7 have to call it
because it has a high sulfate content and undissolved solids and
we would certainly not recommend it for domestic water supply for
these reasons. You -are then able to get better quality from belaw.
The people here have not done that, now whether they haven't done it
because someone hasn't told them to do it or whe[her they haven't
done it because they couldn't afford it is inmaterial but the fact
remains that they haven't done it.
The second thing is we are talking about an average
daily requirement of these people of 7,500 gallons a day - in designing
for natural daily demand 2.5 time that 18,750 gallons per day. We
are talking about 40,000 gallons it storage, which is substantially
more than that - twice that - so if -there is en outage in the system
the pump breaks down, or has to be replaced, they have water to
operate certainly on a limited basis for several days.
The -sewage system is designed to accomodate the sewage
flows anticiapted by these water yields. We have done a lot of
water work in the front range, we have put in a lot of wells
with this kind of use. We found this is the only way if you are
going to have to go to a deep well source and there is no sensible
way of reaching out from -this property to get a town or municipal
system. This is the way to construct it and this is not an
irrigation well which is to some extent what we are talking -about.
Mr- Sarchet: Mr. Ray perhaps you misunderstood us - these people
didn't say that this was irri-ga`.ion water or wasn't _irrigation
water or it wasn't used on flowers and plants. There wells have
been in the case surfece water has been cemented off. I have a log
on a couple of them here.
FUND Change of Zone 29 November 4, 11370
Mr. Ray: I am not talking about surface water I am talking
about sand of about a depth of 400 to 500 feet.
Mr. Sarchet: One of -these wells I think Mr. Meyers was cemented off
at I think 450 feet.
Mr. Muse: And another thing a mile west, a half of a mile north,
and a half of -a mile west - there was well drilled at 90O feet and
they got no water.
Mr. Ray; That doesn't apply her sir, because we don't know what
the geology is at - at that particular location.
Mr. Muse: Our well drillers -say we were in this Fox Hill Sand, I
don't know, tout Holden and Holden are our main drillers and holds
Number one right in Weld County and is one of the oldest in our
district.
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. Romero don't you consider this 60O foot depth to
be in the Fox Hills-?
Mr. Romero: It is pretty hard to tell when you are in the Fox Hills
and when you are in the Larimie its only academic any way the question
is whether you have good water and there is a pretty good possibility
here that the deepest well in here is composed of the boundary
that separates the Larimie and Fox Hills, however, as said a few
minutes ago it is only acadamic anyway. It just so happens that we
don't have any deep wells to really- pay out but they are really
penetrating the Fox Hills —
Mr. Sarchet: Now what----
Mr. Romero: all we offering and willing to indic-ate is that there
are sands in the area and -as Mr. Ray points out it is quite possible
that they did not penetrate the Fox Hills. Now it could be that
Mr. Ray is wrong entirely and the wells are _in the Fox Hills. We
don't have - the deepest well that I have here on my logs is-well
590 to 595 feet to 600 feet. That could very well be the Pox Hills
but --
Mr. Sarchet: There is nothing to indicate whether there is more water
at -900 feet?
Mr. Romero: We don't have any more depth - 600 feet is it - this is
all we have in this area.
FUND Change of Zone - 30 November 4, 1970
Mr. Ray: Have you -evaluated any geophysical data from area at
all?
Mr. Romero: No I have not - I haven't had the chance to 'do that
Mr. Ray: Well I did, that is why I am pursuaded that we are looking
at well depths of 900 to 950 feet to get out seep beds.
existing
Mr. -Romero: Right now - the deep - the wells/now are in the transitition
side.
Mr. Rav: Thats right.
Mr. Romero: And the A 8 P and the sandstone have not -been contaminated.
Mr. Romero: Right.
Mr. Sarchet: That from and not from actual testing.
Mr. Rav: From the existing geophysical records as well as from
other information.
existing
Mr. Sarchet: Wouldn't the/wells there -be depleted -by the use of this
one?
Mr. Rav: Depending on whether you get - from where you hays any
vertical cross connections between the units that these gentlemen
are pumping from and the ones that you are proposing to -pump from.
There is very little vertical movement of water through these layers
there is very little vertical movement.
required
Mr. Sarchet: Isn't there a permit/to put down a well for more than
one family ?
Mr. Ray: Oh certainly.
Mr. Sarchet: What are the things taken A-nto consideration for granting
this permit?
1101711 ELL A great number -of things.
Mr. Sarchet: Would one of them be whether -or not they would deplete
the wells that are there - the existing wells in the area?
add currently
Mr. Romero: I might/that the Division of Water Resources are/undertaking
a study of the entire Denver Basin — of which this will be the northern
parts of it and the preliminary report should be out within lets say
between 4 and 6 months and I say this because -I am doing this. We hays
quite a bit of :data that needs to be digested .
FUND Change of Zone- 31 - November 4, 1970
Mr. Billings: I think we have covered most of the questions that have
been eked.
Mr. Nathanson: Mr. Chairman, I wondered if I would have anopportunity
with the Board here concerning the petition.
Mr. Billings: Yes sir, you will anything we have here that we have
received as testimony or -otherwise will be made available.
Mr. Marshall Anderson: I have on _question - I know its hard to anticipate
but how many school children do you estimate to be absorbed in the
two school districts and the school system..- Re. 3?
Mr. Lauen: Of the five famili-es -that have received their elgibility
for a Farmers Home Administration Loan the average family size is 5
per family including parents.
Marshall -Anderson: Would it be safe to say then 3 time 18?
Mr. Lauen: Three times 16 — or 48. I would like -to emphasize Mr. Chairman
that the term migrants has been used to some extent this afternoon and
it doesn't apply to this particular group of people. These people have
decided sometime ago to get out of the migrant stream and are presently
employed in Fort Lupton and in Adams County and in Greeley . So they are
no longer migrants.
Mr. -Billings: Well I think or at least we tried to indicate and I
said -there wasn't any similarity between this and the Fort Lupton
Labor Camp and this project. I believe we have pretty well covered
all the information that this -Board might -need and the County Planning
Commissi-on might need. Do you have something?
Mr. Moore: Yes sir, I am Kenneth Moore of Route 2 Box 203, Fort Lupton,
and I kind -of like to throw a few more things in here. Most of the
testimony this afternoon has been concerned with water and as I understand
it the income of -these famili-es can he from $3,500 to $7,500 -a year.
Myself I make around $11,000 a year and I commute to Denver, right now
I am working in the Louisville area, which is approximately the same
distance about 30 to 35 miles. The cost of commuting is extremely
high it runs me around 15 to 20 -dollars a week. I am just wondering
if they take into account the - cost of what this will be for these
people.
FUND CHANGE OF ZONE 32 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lauen: I would like to answer that Mr. Moore, according to the
calculations of the figures just given that is almost a $1,000 a year
for commuting costs. He has just stated the very reason why we should
settle in groups of people instead of individually dispersed around
the county. If ten people get in a driving and transportation network
you may have ten cars for two people, that would be $2,000.00 divided
by 10 which would be $200.00 a year instead of a $1,000.00 a year;
and these are the kinds of - the very things we have been planning
for 8 months. These are very much our concern and we appreciate
them bringing up that point.
Mr. Moore: Thats very good and well if everybody work at the same
place but myself I work in construction and know a lot of the former
migrants work construction too and construction jobs are scattered
all over the place. As I say I am working over by Lousiville now
and I don't know where I am going to be working next.
Mr. Lauen: Well that is a problem - we need construction workers
the fact is that most of our people work in a similar area in Greeley
and in northern Adams County so we - a transportation pool is something
very condusive to keeping our costs down.
Mr. Moore: Another thing I want to bring out - I mean - your s'.tting
down and figuring this out and the way we figured in out it runs the
families about $17,000.00 total cost for their house and all their
things to sustain there living. I am just wondering if they can meet
their obligation at that price.
Mr. Lauen: I would like to respond to that - if the Farmers Home
Administration didn't think that it would fit their particular budget -
family budget - they would not approve the loan. You have to go through
a very rigerous application procedure and each family is Evaluated on
what their bills are how much they are earning presently, how much they
will eventually earn and that has to be looked at in terms of what they
can afford per month and no one that is in tough financial shape can get
approval. So that screening process upon on those home is the very
process that will insure that the people can afford this kind of settlement.
FUND Change of Zonc 33 November 4, 1970
Mr. Moore: I would like to ask this question, why would the County
Commissioner - in rezoning into the RU - residential zoning - now will
that prohibit livestock in that residential - that type of zoning?
The reason I ask this is these families will probably get out there
and being in a rural enviorment undoubtedly some of them will want to
raise a hog or a calf for their own use and if this zoning prohibits
this and if i-t does where are they going to be?
Mr. Billings: Our County Planner can aiswer that, Mr. Lorensen.
Mr. Lorensen: The "R" zoning - they have related to the "R" zoning -
except they have made an exception from the "R" zone lots as it was
mentioned earlier, 7500 square feet and the "R" zone does put a
restriction on the number of animals that you can have. Our regulations
read that its possible through reference from one zone to another to have
animals practically any type zone that you have. Their planned Unit
Development makes no reference except refering to the "R" zone and
I believe animals are available for this although it - they show no
intent of doing this.
Audience: Mr. Lauen made a statement here a few minutes about the
raising of chickens - I don't know if that has any bearing on it.
Mr. Lorensen: On the Planned Unit Development two major area - one is
the home sites which is 16 sizes lots located on two streets and the
rest of it is open land and there was some intent to use the other
land for agricultural purposes such as was suggested by this gentlemen
ovar here. That the land should be agricultural.
Mr. Brothe: What sectiw of this land is going to be where their houses
are? You have a section set aside for agricultural purposes and as you
know -even the farmers - in a farm - you look generally there are farm
houses, chicken houses, all their livestock are close to their house
so they can care for it. Now this will put all their livestock and things
out away from them and if they were in need of veterinary care or anything
they would not know about it. Like anything else people tend to get
lazy and they don't like to walk a long ways to things.
Mr. Lauen: I think you better ask Mr. Llamas, I am not about to move
into other areas.
FUND Change of Zone 34 November 4, 1970
Mr. Llamas: Yes, you are right about man, some people get lazy
they are not the ones who want to own something, not the one that
never had a chance to own something. These group of people
that I would be, and I am one of them, a person who would like to
get my own home there, we have been working hard all our lives.
Don't feel sorry for us because we have a house, we have to keep
on working, its our land, we have been working like heck, very hard,
because the place where I came from they don't have a union like you
where you work
have/- I don't have a coffee break. Dont' tell me that you don't have
it - you have the coffee break at least once a day. We used to work
sun up to sun down - we still work that way in Colorado - sun up to
sun down. Another thing we know how to make our money strech because -
At times
I - myself -/I have only about 20 to 22 dollars a week and I five
at that time to support. Thanks to the Lord that they are all
but grown up now. But at the time I have to feed them, take them
to the doctor, buy them medicine, pay rent, buy clothes and give them
money for the lunch - with $20.00 per week and so don't worry about
us. Let us do what we want and we will find a way to pay balk that
because it is our ego - it is our only hope - to have something that
belongs to us - that we can be proud of. We don't want to be like
we have been all our lives. The only reason we have been before-
is that we have never had a chance before and now that I have it I
would like to see it go through.
Audience: One other thing before I won't say - I don't know if
my feelings are strictly for the entire group but myself I am not
opposed to this thing in its entirety - I am only opposed to the
high density. I would rather see you put them on one acre site
rather than make it1high density zoning.
Mr. Brothe: I happen to live on the other side of Fort Lupton -
and the Aristocrate Ranchettes - directly - my property joins it -
you get all the big cardboard boxes, refridgerator cases and otherwise
they are out in the yard and come the first big wind they are on my
place. That is something to think about. Unless that property is
fenced with a woven wire fence you will get all the paper and trash
and everything else all the roofing blows over on this 80. You have
to stop your tractor and get off or put up with otherwise. As for
FUND Change of Zone 35
November 4, 1970
Mr. Brothe: animals and care of them I would like to have anyone
drive into that subdivision and see the conditions. All the cars
by the dozen the has tried to stop that and
he has an awful time and he has never stopped it. He has stopped
one and then the next dozen will come in and do the same -thing.
Audience: Not audible
Mr. Billings: I think we are possibly getting repetitious in the
personal problems that still doesn't involve the decision of this
Board on the approval. If anyone has anything they would like to
bring up that they haven't brought up we will be glad to hear it
other than that I think we will start closing this off.
Mrs. Cronin: I would like to speak to the gentlemen here, we are
the people who are presently farming that farm that this is part of.
We too are interested in your welfare because there is a lot of us
who worked hard to get where we are and that is the reason that some
of us are concerned about you. There was rye planted on that ground
last August and it has never come up. You can't get water to that
corner because there is no way of getting it there unless you install
a pipeline, apump system or something to get the irrigation water
there out of Barr Lake and you can't use the domestic water for
anything. They are very true in telling you that. That is the reason
we hate to see you come in there and work from sun up to sun down and
not have anything because we doubt if you can raise grass. You know
the early freezes we have sometimes which nobody has any control over
that and you are really taking a chance. As you notice the hayfield
that isn't too far from you, now there is water there, a sprinkler
system and all that but from that corner you can not get water. You
can carry it there by a bucket and it won't do you much good.
Mrs Kenneth Moore: I am Mrs. Moore of Route 2 Box 203, Fort Lupton, I don't
question these people sincerety in doing this -this would be - different
people work hard and there are those who don't in any sort of a situation.
The thing that brings to mind is that this will create a sort that is
dissimilar to everything that surrounds it. It seems like for the
comporable cost that these houses are going to be that a person could
FUND Change of Zone 36 November 4, 1970
Mrs. Moore: go say, if they work in Greeley, go into a suberbs in Greeley and
buy a house for the approximate same cost without the necessity of
creating a specific community so they can pay the same cost.
Mr. Lauen: Mr. Commissioner can I speak to that? One of the - I am
not really trying to make you miss supper - but I really think I should
expound.
Mr. Billings: Don't worry about that - it is just another meeting.
Mr. Lauen: This is a proposed locations on the Ione Road and this
is Greeley. One of the realities of life for people that have skills
from the rural area that are trying to readjust to those city skills
is to other areas is that they should be in a position where they can
reach both areas. As we know right now the Monfort Plant is shut down
some of the people that will be living here are working at the Monfort
Plant, if they are equi-distance to bath. major employement centers
instead of in Greeley or in Denver they are in a better position to
maintain employment. That is our only rational for locating this
equidistant to both major employment centers.
Mrs. Sarchet: Well do they have to be 60 miles from their employement
which you have just shown on the map here?
Mr. Lauen: No 28 miles.
Mrs. Sarchet: My heart bleeds for these people.
Mr. Lauen: My heart doesn't - because they will make it by themselves.
Mrs. Sarchet: I feel very sorry for them because I think they ,;re being
roped into something that is very very cruel and there is no other word
for it, there is no water, there is a terrific distance to where they work.
They may smile and think its happy but I hope they are smiling when they
live for years because I have lived there for 44 years and I know of
what I speak and they have my heartfelt sympathy. I think it is the
cruelist thing that I have every heard or has every come to my attention.
I think it is cruel.
Mr. Lauen: Mrs. Sarchet, it would have been if they had not been
participating in all the decisions.
FUND Change of Zone 37 November 4, 1970
Mrs. Sarchet: It doesn't make any difference they had somebody guide
them and I don't know - they have my heartfelt tympathy.
Mr. Billings: I think at this time we will have - yes.
Mr. Turnquist: I live at Route 2 Box 205, I am on the southwest quarter
section right across the road and there are a couple of questions.
How is this going to effect our agricultural zoning across the
road? What about animals - I am thinking about going into hogs.
Are they going to complain about our hogs? The hog smells when the
wind blows their way? This I don't know.
Mr. Billings: They probably will but you were there first.
Mr. Turnquist: Yes but
Mr. Telep: You were there first - later on if it gets real bad
and there are enough people in there - there might be enough people
in there - might I say - I have nothing to do with it - they can -
in answer to your question. If you have a nuisance.
Mr. Turnguist: You see this concerns me becuase my pasture is adjacent
to this and we have animals coming right up to that road and also
another point is that we have no dump. We have no garbage disposal
in the area and there is a minimum bf ditches - it is reasonably
flat land. I don't own one on my land and I try to find a way to
handle my trash. These people will have the same problem and in
reference to Mrs. -Cronin's statement about her wheat and rye that
didn't come up - it did - it came up in my pasture.
Mr. Billings: At this time I would like to address a couple of questions
to clarify the record. I would like to have all those people here who
are in favor whethr they have had a chance to speak or not to indicate
that they are here in favor of the approval of this change of zone.
If you would raise your hands we will get this into the record.
Let the record show that there are 9 people here who are in favor
of the change of zone. I will direct the same question to those
people who are there who are not in favor of the change of zone -
raise your hands.
Audience: Mr. Chairman, there are some people who had to leave
because they had to get to their cattle and some of them I know were
going to vote against.
Mr. Billings: Let the record show that there are 22 people here who
are against the approval and that were numerous people in the audience
who had left - there may have been some in favor and some who were
„Jb November 4, 1970
Mr. Billings: against. Did you have something else.
Mr. Nathanson: 'es, I was wondering if I could make of record here
of this report of any data that has been presented here and the
Sargents and any of the others
Mr. Telep: Why don't you go ovet it with the Sargents and you can
cross examine on those petitions.
Audience: I would like to ask a question, if I may, my name is
Maynard Nichols of Route 2 Box 204, I live across the road south
and my house is on a - _down there. How
much more of this land is going to be acquired by these people
if they are going to build more houses - if they can't build more
houses on this particular piece of ground they have now. How much
land
more/will they be able to acquired by these people to build more
houses - you say you can't build more houses on this piece of ground
they have right now. Are they going to be able aquire more land to
do the same thing?
Mr. Billings: There would be no way for this Board to be able to
answer this. If this were approved then they would have to come in
for similar approval if they had additional land and somebody might
want to be developing your land or land such as this land, for a zoning
change
Mr. Nichols: In other words each lot would have to be rezoned - this
is just lot 13 - it is not the whole Wiesner Subdivision?
Mr. Billings: The only lot that is being rezoned 18. some odd acres
18.2 acres anything additional will have to be rezoned.
Mrs Cronin: Mr. Chairman, they have an option on - do they have to go
through the same procedure with that that they have an option on.
Mr. Billings: Yes mam they would, this is only for, as I said before,
18.2 acres. Mr. Lorensen.
Mr. Lorensen: I would like to point out some of the considerations that
the Planning Commission gave it before they recommended that it be
approved. Under normal subdivision regulations requirements the
requirement for each lot in an "A" zone, if it were subdivided, is
40,000 square feet, which is a little less than an acre and with
FUND Change of Zor^ 39 November 4, 1970
Mr. Lorensen: respect to density, if this were developed under a normal
subdivision regulations approximately 18 units could be built
on this same piece of land and that the purpose in this Planned
Unit Development was to put the units in a small common area
which would essentially make road, less water lines, sewer lines,
or wherever they got their services for this type of thing. In.
fact less maintenace to the County when they turn it over to the
County for road maintenance. The balance of the land could be
used for some other purpose. So this is one of the thoughts
behind this.
One of the other considerations is that there was no
consideration about who or what was going to use the land only the
plan that was being proposed. They felt that this was a better use
of the land than the normal subdividing and cutting it up into one
acre lots. This was their major concern and the other major concern
was that the utilities and things that would be required for 16 families
be available. I think that is all I have to say.
Audience: Mr. Chairman, when they put this in density it makes a
real good fire hazzard, the way it looks to me, it is in no fire district
and they have absolutely no fire protection whatsoever.
Mr. Billings: Mr. Nathanson -
Mr. Nathanson: Just for the record Mr. Sarchet, as this petition has been
made part of the record here I would like to go over it so that we
understand it and I wondered if you could tell the Commissioners exactly
who was in as much details as you can, and how they went about circulating
the petitions and acquiring the signatures.
a good
Mr. Sarchet: I think/many of the people in the area requested to sign
the petition and they came to a central point and signed it. It was
taken home by different residents in the area and their neighbors came
to their place and signed it. It was taken around some to give other
people in the area an opportunity to sign it.
Mr. Nathanson: I wonder if you could clear that up - it would help us
at getting at the authenticity of the petition and the signatures on it.
Who were some of the people who took the petitions around?
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. McPeak was one, Mrs. Harkes was one, Shirley Turnquist
was one, Irma Dowdy was one, Mrs. Dowdy, Mrs. Moore was one, Mrs. Cronin
I believe.
Mrs. Cronin: There were a lot of them signed at my house.
FUND Change of Zonr 40 November 4, 1970
Mr. Sarchet: Does that answer your question?
Mr. Nathanson: Well I guess what I was asking you - what I am trying to get
at is - is that do you know the people who did this - do you know that these
are real signatures.
Mrs. Sarchet: Would you like to have them notarized?
Mr. Nathanson: Notarized or not that won't- help that at all.
Mrs. Sarchet: Well I can do it -
Audience: They are all there - nobody forged
Mrs. Sarchet: Nobody----
Mr. Nathanson: No, no I am not suggesting - I want to clear up sort of
a complicated legal matter. I just want to clear up that you know the
people who circulated them and that you know the signatures are real.
Mr. Muse: '• You mean does he know each person personally?
Mr. Nathanson: Yes.
Mr. Muse: I think he does - yes.
Mr. Sarchet: There might be some signatures by people that I am not
personally acquainted with but
Mrs. Sarchet: They are all in our locality and we have 44years.
Mr. Sarchet: Nearly everybody that signed I am personally acquainted with
and the ones that I am not - the person who had the petition at that time
is probably here and knows that that signature was authentic.
Mrs. Cronin: Sir - I am a Notary Public and I could notarize 3 of those.
I could notarize 3 of the petitions I would notarize.
Mr. Nathanson: I know that but that is not the question - I guess when you
say - I think it was Mrs. Sarchet that said - all these people are known
to you and are in you locality, could you describe them geographically
as to locality for the Commissioners.
Mr. Sarchet: I think all of those signatures - with a possible exception
of a few that I wouldn't recall would be within a 12 mile radius. Some
of the people have the Hudson address, live within 3 miles of this area
and some of the people with a Fort Lupton address live within 3 miles
of this area. Some of the people that have----
Mr. Nathanson: Just for the record - I believed you - just for the record
would you show that 3 or 4 people are answering the question and that
thats on the record.
FUND Change of Zona 41 November 4, 1970
Mr. Sarchet: People that have a Platteville address, the Platteville
route is within 3 miles of this tract of land. The address doesn't
necessarily mean that they live in those towns.
Mr. Nathanson: Thats what I was really trying to get at, casually looking
at these - I haven't had a chance to study them - I notice this address
is in Fort Lupton - the City of Fort Lupton
Mrs. Sarchet: Ours is Fort Lupton.
Mr. Nathanson: Route 2, Fort Lupton and Hudson and Star Route Hudson
and Brighton, and Greeley and La Salle and Platteville and other
communities which seems to cover- because I don't know the exact
location - if I think of it the addresses that I just gleamed are
in an area _from Greeley to south of Fort Lupton.
Mr, Sarchet: I don't think there is any
Audience participation.
Mr. Billings: Just a minute - the questions are being directed between
these two gentlemen - it will only confuse the issue if we get conversation-
Mr. Sarchet: I haven't checked each signature on here but I know that
nearly all the signatures are in the area there - there is a few of
them that live in the town of Hudson and a few that live in the town of
Fort Lupton, but nearly all of them live in the country there - the area
that this land is located in.
Mr. Nathanson: Well let me suggest to you - there is a Mr. - there appears
to be a signature of a Lloyd Meyers of Greeley, Colorado, is he personally
known to you?
Mr. Sarchet: No.
Mr. Nathanson: You don't know him? There - just picking out at random there
is I belive a Mickey Meyers of Greeley, Colorado, would he or she be
personally known to you?
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. Mc-Peak
Mr. McPeak: I got them signatures and they rent ground down there and
they are farming down there and they are interested in what is going in
to that locale.
Mr. Nathanson: Oh, I have not objection to these _people -
FUND Change of Znne 42 November 4, 1970
Mr. McPeak: I think what your problem is - just because a guy lives
one place and might have interest other places
Mr. Nathanson: I am just trying to see who the people are that signed
this - I don't know them so I need someinformation.
Mr. Billings: Gentlemen - I am not speaking for this but the redistricting
in this area of the postal districts - many people actually live closer
to another town and it show them living in Fort Lupton and maybe not
I am not sure whether this is what you are trying to point out.
Mr. Nathanson: No - I am just trying to establish (1) process by which
this document was generated and (2) who the people involved might be
when you consider the document whatever way you do deliberations why
it could be considered with it. I don't know what the nature of it
is but that is what I am trying to get at.
Well could you - you were making reference before to the
12 miles radius and would that 12 miles from the town of Fort Lupton
or 12 miles from----
Mr. Sarchet: A 12 mile radius from this particular tract of land,
Mr. Nathanson: Twelve miles from the land that is proposed from being
zoned? Does that include the town of tort Lupton?
Mr. Sarchet: Yes.
Mr. Nathanson: What other towns would be in that radius?
Mr. Sarchet: Platteville, Hudson, and La Salle - no La Salle would not
be but the rural routes from La Salle would be.
Mr. Nathanson: So that what you say would be the towns of Platteville,
Fort Lupton, Keenesburg, Hudson and would there be any other towns?
Mrs. Sarchet: Well it might be somebody who owns the land there but lives
in Greeley but you might own some land - and I don't know for sure if
anyone
Mr. Nathanson: If you took a 12 mile circle from the proposed site, how
many towns would be inside that circle.
Mr. Sarchet: Hudson, Fort Lupton, Platteville, Keenesburg, I believe
Mr. Nathanson: And was there an effort made by you or your group to take
a poll or a sample of the people in these towns?
FUND Change of Zo -e 43 November 4, 1970
Mr. Sarchet: No.
Mrs. Sarchet: They just — why they just ran the phone off of my wall
wanting to come sand sign it.
Mr. Nathanson: Well — who is they mam?
Mrs. Sarchet: A lot of those people - do you want me to point them out
to you?
Mr. Nathanson: No - but there are a lot of signatures here. I am trying
to acertain exactly how the signature were gotten and it wasn't by going
through - the process by which you got this petition wasn't by systematically
going through the towns and asking -
Mrs. Sarchet: Oh no - not one - not one
Mr. Nathanson: What was the process by which you got them? How did it
happen?
Mr. Sarchet: The _process was this, the petitions were presented to people
whom they knew were interested inithis zoning change one way or the other
and so far as I know no one was pressured or even asked to sign it.
It was as it was shown to them if they wanted to sign it-was their privilege.
Marshall Anderson: Mr. Sarchet these were all signed voluntarily there was
nobody forcing them to sign the petition?
Mr. Sarchet: Yes sir.
Mr. Nathanson: I am not saying that there was any pressure for these people
to sign it — I am just wondering if it was a cross section, how many people
were reached and I am not sure I understand.
Mrs. Sarchet: You didn't have to reach them - they _came to you and asked
may I please sign the petition. You can't believe that but if you would
go and talk to them.
Mr. Nathanson: Oh - no I absolutely believe you but they came to your home
is that right?
Mrs. Sarchet: They came - everytime I drove to town they would say, let
me sign that petition - let me sign that petition. Everyplace and the
phone rang off the wall, can I come this afternoon to sign that petition?
Mr. Nathanson: Would you be familiar enough with these people interest to
sign the petition to know whether or not each one of the persons supported
the 10 points made on the petition.
FUND Change of Zone 44 November 4, 1970
Mrs. Sarchet: Yes - definitely. Because when they came I said don't
sign that until you read every word that is on the head of that petition.
That was one specification I made - don't sign it unless you read it.
Don't sign it blindly - you sign those 10 things - you are signing
everyone and you believe them full heartedly. You should get down
in that neighborhood and talk to some of,these people.
Mr. Nathanson: Would you then say that the interest of the people in
signing this - that in this 12 mile circle they believe that there
is no local law enforcement, no telephone, no fire.
Mrs. Sarchet: Its a fact - it is true - you can't get around it - its
true. You can't get around it those are facts.
Mr. Nathanson: Would that apply - I am not trying to dispute the facts
I am just trying - I was wondering in view you would----
Mrs. Sarchet: I would like for you to come down because Mr. Lauen promised
me to bring me one of those men and my heart aches for those people - it
really does. And I asked him to please bring me this poor sole who works
12 hours a day and then he is going to get into a mess like this. And
my heart aches for them.
Mr. Nathanson: Ya, I understand that.
Mrs. Sarchet: Its cruel.
Mr. Nathanson: But then you as the proposed presentors of this petition
and with the County Commissioners - the understanding of the people who
signed it is - is that you have an objection to any rural land in this
area - in this 12 mile circle - the reasons--
Mrs. Sarchet: For those reasons.
Mr. Nathanson: So that any time people came in to build new homes in the
rural region which could. be described as lying in a 12 mile radius
from the proposed site you would - and the petitioners would ask that
the - that they required zoning change for this project would be denied
because there is no fire, no law.
Mrs. Sarchet: I don't think that that comes into it.
Mr. Nathanson: Well then would they feel I suppose that this site is as
good as any other rural site in that 12 mile radius?
Mrs. Sarchet: No - for the various reasons that are listed.
'-_J\2 Change of Zone 45 November 4, 1970
Mr. Nathanson: Well no----
Mrs. Sarchet: We -have a fire at our place - Leonard has one at his place
do you know what it costs to get a fire district?
Mr. Nathanson: No mam, but I am not going
Mrs. Sarchet: Look up little point
Mr. Nathanson: I am not going to go through that - I am really serious and
interested in getting the record clear - is all I am interested in.
Mrs. Sarchet: Well its as clear as it can be.
Mr. Nathanson: Your statement before was that you as the presentors of
the petition and the peopl-e who signed it would have the same objection
would have the same objections to rural - any piece of rural land in
this 12 mile circle?
Mrs. Sarchet: I am not concerned with any other piece -
Audience: We are talking about this particular spot.
Mrs. Sarchet: I am concerned with these people. This poor fellow works
12 hours a day and he is going to get into this mess.
Mr. Nathanson: So that you don't have any other objections to any other
parcel
Mrs. Sarchet: I am not talking about any other parcel, I am talking about
this one. Why do we have to bring other land in when we are discussing
this one. This is the one the Commissioners are going to rule on%
Mr. Nathanson: Yes but - I want
Mrs. Sarchet: Don't you know we will 4o something else when the time
comes for whatever situation comes up.
Mr. Nathanson: Yes, I understand that mam, but what I wonder is - do
your objections to all the rural - in other words these people are making
a statement to the Commission through this petition.
Mrs. Sarchet: On this particular piece of land
Mr. Nathanson: I just want to clear up i, what their statement is and if
you can help in that because of your personal knowledge of their intentions
and if would they have the same objection to rural land in this 12 mile area?
v1rs. Sarchet: I don't know why this has to enter into it - because
Mr. Nathanson: Because they made statements like there is no fire protection
and there is no water-
Mrs. Sarchet: Its true - its true
FUND Change of Zone- 46 November 4, 1970
Audience: On this property there is no fire protection.
Mr. Telep: May we have order in the room - I don't think she can answer
that really because for the reasons that the other answers that she has
given. That -they know as a matter of fact that some of those names in
there are as a matter of fact the persons they preport to be and I am
sure the Board will give those petiti-ons proper weight and discrestion
that is given to this particular thing. I don't think she can answer
that really because you are talking about a specific piece of ground
and yet you have -circumscribed a 12 milt diameter or radius is it?
Mr. Nathanson' Radius.
Mr. Telep: A 12 mile radius - the diameter is 24 - so this is what
you have for what it is worth and I think that we are going to have to
limit it to this particular locati-on and whatever the people thought
who did sign it - some of those can answer - those who are on the
petition you can take their testimony that way. We are trying to keep
this a quasi judicial hearing.
Mr. Nathanson: Oh, sure --
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. Chairman
Harold Anderson: I would like to -explain about these fire protection districts
you understand, we have fire protection districts and then we have what
we call no man's land - that there is no fire district. It is organized
and is taxed. The point I am trying to make therefore there are a lot
of areas that absolutely have no fire protection whatsoever because they
are not within the district.
Mr. Nathanson: Yes I understand that. If the Commission will permit all I
am trying to get at is that the objections - the 10 points that are made
here seem to me to be very general objections that perhaps could be made
on any rural - that is not incorporated site - within this same area and
if thats true, as I understand the Commissioners duties in zoning matters
is to plan for the public health and safety and if their objections are
general I think you can of course take them into account. But at the
plan to
same manner I think you have to take into account that you have to/have
some houses in this rural area if there is the demonstrated need for houses.
I was just trying to see if there - if the petitioners the people who are
presenting the petition know that this is an objection to this.tte or is
it an objection that in rural Colorado, that is unincorporated area
FUND Change of Zan- 47 November 4, 1970
there may not be fire protection, there may not be police, very many
other things which of course are true, but in general don't go with
the specific site, that is all I was trying to get at.
Mr. Sarchet: Mr. Chairman the petition specifically refers to this
site in the heading of the petition, it doesn't refer to any general
area. It refer specifically to the legal _description of this site.
Mr. Nathanson: Then I just have one more or a few more question perhaps.
Point Number 10 says, the project would result - I belive it say, "
The project would result in a segregated area which is very undesirable."
and I suppose I would want you to expand to the extent that you can
as the person presenting the petition what you mean or what is your
intent by that?
Mr. Sarchet: I think that the publicity that was _given this project
in the press indicated that it would be primarily migrant labor, former
migrant labor, and eventually would be Spanish-American people. The
general feeling at this time is desegration of schools, desegration
of communities and that was what was referred to.
Mr. Nathanson: So that the record should show that your _group, the petitioning
group would want to -go on record with the Commissioners, and the FHA and
everyone else as being opposed to racial segregation - is that it? Is
it -race that you are considering?
Mrs. Sarchet: Segregation period.
Mr. Nathanson: Well does economic, cultural, racial--
Mrs. Sarchet: Racial.
Audience: I would just like to add economic to that too.
Mr. Nathanson: Well--
Mrs. Sarchet: That is a different subject.
Audience: To me its not.
Mr. Nathanson: Your testimony - I guess I had better ask - Your testimony
Mrs. Sarchet is that the point taken is to racial segregation.
Mrs. Sarchet: Yes. We are trying nationally and every other way to
get away from that and I am Scotch born and I say — if I had been only
shut up with Scotch people I don't think that it would be very easy
to become Americanized and I think the same thing with these people.
aren't
The reason they are becoming more broader Americans is that they
have been segregated and I think it is wrong.
FUND Change of Zor- 48 November 4, 1970
Mr. Nathanson: I guess the only other question would be in terms of
point Number 1 which I think is ," insufficient water for domestic
use."
we own
Mrs. Sarchet: Well/the land the quarter across from it and we have
put down test holes down there without any results so judging from
the other people in this area, their testimony here this afternoon
for that reason we say there isn't. Some people - to drink water
from Barr Lake is just more than I can stomach - I can tell you
that, seepage from Barr Lake.
Mr. Nathanson: I was going to ask a question regarding the meaning of
this particular objection that you all have and that is would you
being
object if any wells/drilled for domestic use on this property or
does it relate to racial segration or what is the objection to the
domestic water on Lot 13?
Mrs. Sarchet: Because we don't think it is there.
Mr. Nathanson: You don't think there is any-
Mrs. Sarchet: From the wells that were drilled around us - the water
is very unsufficient.
Mr. Nathanson: As far as you know the understanding here is that drinking
water on that property is insufficient for one family or 16 families.
Mrs. Sarchet: It couldn't be enough for 16 families but that would be
up to you to worry about not me.
Mr. Nathanson: We are not worried about it
Mrs. Sarchet: I saw--
Mr. Nathanson: I did not sign a petition.
Mrs. Sarchet: Because I put this up because I am concerned with people.
I don't think the people can - I don't think they can do it - on $3,200
pay for an $18,000 house, put down this well, take care of the repairs
and the upkeep and so forth.
Mr. Nathanson: No I understand your general concern but I am trying to get
at in the record for this Number 1 objection and that is - you believe
that there is no water there?
Mrs. Sarchet: There is insufficient water there as stated in the petition.
Mr. Nathanson: Is it insufficient for a single family or 16?
Mrs. Sarchet: Well thats for the
FUND Change of Zone 49 November 4, 1970
Mr. Nathanson: No I really wonder because you know it your statement--
you can't go in there blindly
Mrs. Sarchet: Your not going to -/you are going to have to make some
tests to find out.
Mr. Muse: Maybe we are selfish in a way we are wondering whats
going to happen to our other wells if they go to puttin this municipal
well down. Are we going to have to go down and is there anything there
when we go down. You see our wells are going dry you might say. If
we put down some more municipal wells they are deeper than ever - will
we have to go down there too? Maybe that is a selfish point.
Mr. Nathanson: Then you really don't have a statement for the record
about what is---
Mrs. Sarchet: No I am not an engineer - I am just a
Mr. Nathanson: No I am asking you what you meant to say----
Mrs. Sarchet: Just what I meant to say there is insufficient water which
has been proved by the wells and the people drawing water around the
place. I am not an engineer so - this is because I am concerned with
people. I don't care if they areewhite, yellow, pink, green or yellowgreen
I don't care what they are. I am concerned with people.
Mr. Nathanson: Ya, but I am concerned with your statement about insufficient
water - does that mean per a single operation - per a single family -
you believe would be objectionable?
Mrs. Sarchet: You would have to ask an engineer.
Mr. Nathanson: Would you like to withdraw?
Mrs. Sarchet: No, no, no under no circumstances.
Mr. Sarchet: I signed the petition and by insufficient water for this
project I don't think that there is sufficient water in_the deep well
strata to stand the pumping for the 16 families. The water table of
the adjoining wells has gone down sufficiently in the past few years
but the use that is already there to justify that opinion.
Mr. Nathanson: Would you say based on your personal knowledge of the
people that you know personally signed this - that they wouldn't object
to a lesser use of water on the property - it is just the 16 families
that got it?
Mr. Sarchet: I think that is beside the point they did state that they
felt there was insufficient water for the proposal of 16 families
FUND Change of Zone. 50 November 4, 1970
on one well.
Audience: You are getting off the subject here, we are talking about 16
units here we are not talking about one - get on the subject. Sixteen,
that is what you are talking about - you are not talking about one.
Mr. Telep: Lets confine this to
Audience: Lord almighty I know I don't have a college education lets
keep it down where we are going someplace. Like we are going
Mr. Nathanson: If it is the pleasure of the Commissioners and it is really
getting late and I guess my temper would -get short if I were subjected
to a lot more abuse and I sure that is of you too. I wonder if we
should continue this now or not.
Mr. Billings: I think if you have some more questions we should finish
it now. I would like to finish it within the next 5 or 10 minutes at
least.
Mr. Nathanson: Could you Mr. ---- I guess let me ask the question of
Mr. or Mrs Sarchet - could you say for the Commission - again just
to clarify it - I know you went over it - 5 or 6 names - could you
indicate to the Commission where those people live and how long they
and you took to collect the names?
Marshall Anderson: I think that has been established. You don't have ---
people have testified and it is in the record. As far as -I am concerned
they have already given their names.
Mr. Telep: It has been taken care of. The petitions are presented
in evidence and it is their right to examine under what conditions
they were obtained because it is only fair and proper I think partly
because---- why don't we gut it short.
Mr. Brothe: May I ask
Mr. Telep: No you can't
Mrs. Cronin: Mr. Chairman I don't think the gentlemen identified himself
I am sorry -
Mr. Telep: He is Mr. Nathanson, for the record he was in the record
earlier. I made him of record representing the petitioners on this
change
FUND Change of Zone 51 November 4, 1970
Mr. Nathanson: Well I didn't understand there was sort of an objection
from Mr. Anderson to the question I asked - shall I ask a new question?
Mr. Telep: Well make the question shorter and punching right to the
point.
Mr. Nathanson: Okay - Mr. and Mrs Sarchet could you tell the Commissioner
how many day or weeks were involved in generating the petition that you
presented - how long?
Mr. Sarchet: I think the petitions were out about 10 days.
Mr. Nathanson: Was there any work done on this matter, as far as you know,
prior to that 10 days?
Mr. Sarchet: There was a meeting held at which Mr. Lauen was present
in a neighborhood meeting - a group similar to a good many of us that
are here, this was discussed at that meeting , the project explained
by Mr. Lauen. After that time the petition was started and after the
notices were posted.
Mr. Nathanson: Can you remember at all what date that meeting was with
Mr. Lauen?
Mr. Lauen: Approximately three weeks ago, wasn't it? So it would
be 10 days after that particular meeting. Some 10 days after that
meeting isn't that right.
Mr. Sarchet: Approximately that - I don't have the exact date of the
meeting and I don't have the exact date of the petition.
Mrs. Sarchet: Is it important to know the exact date - I mean what does
it mean to haves the exact date that these were started. What significance
does the exact date have?
Mr.Nathanson: The Commissioners have to determine the significance of
all of this and I am trying to help them.
Mr. Telep: I think we have established about 10 days.
Mr. Nathanson: Would there have been any, as far s you know, would there
have been any work done or any people gotten together or talked with
this group prior even to the meeting with Mr. Lauen?
Mr. Sarchet: Not to my knowledge.
Mrs. Sarchet: Not to me.
Mr. Nathanson: So there would be
FUND Change of Zone 52 November 4, 1970
Mrs. Sarchet: He came and talked to me and I told him exactly
what the score was for a person that I knew was living there for
44 years and that is all I knew about it.
Mr. Nathanson: So this would be about 3 weeks ago that this process
was started that resulted in the petitions.
Mr. Sarchet: I think it was approximately about that long ago.
Mr. Nathanson: I have no more questions at this time regarding the
petition.
Mr. Billings: Alright then at this time I would like to thank everybody
for _coming and taking time out from all you busy schedules. I would
then at this time entertain a motion of either one of the Commissioners.
Marshall Anderson: I move that we take this matter under advisement.
Harold Anderson: I will second the motion.
Mr. Billings: I have a motion ands second that this Board take this
under advisement and I will make it unanimous. Let the record show
that the motion by this Board the decision by this Board is a unanimous
individual vote of approval and I would instruct you Mr. Lorensen to find
out the information that we required.
Mr. Lorensen: Yes sir.
Marshall Anderson: I move that we adjourn.
Meeting adjourned.
/ /
Deputy County Clerk
Request #f Z165 E of the SE's of the SE's DI' Sec 7 2N R. 65 W from zoning
A District to R !JD zoning District. Apposed:
1. Insufficient water supply for domestic use.
2. Poor soil is not adapted to growing garden crops.
3. Speer ditch which sunpli-es irrigation water for this area can
draw water only from the top part of Barr Lake--for this reason
the last run of wafer _is uaually in July.
A. There is no employment in this area and it is an unreasonable
distance to travel to places where jobs are available.
5. limited telephone service.
6. No fire protection available.
7. No medical assistance--no shopping area near-by.
R. No local Iaw infore-ement.
9. Long distance for children to go to school.
in. The project would result in a segrated area which is very
undesirable.
name Address
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Page 2
Request if Z1-65 E,1, of the SEE'` of the SE% of Sec 7 2N R 65 u' from zoning
A -District to R LID zoning DA strict_. Apposed:
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We the undersigned are apposed to rezoning the Ei of SEk of SE 4 -of Sec. 7 2N R 65W
from -A zoning -district R UD zoning district (Request #2165) and -the proposed Migrant
and 1-ow-income families project for the -following reasons:
1. Insufficient water -supply for domestic use.
2. Poor soil is not -adapted to growing garden crops.
3.Speer _ditch which _supplies irrigation water for this -area can draw water only
from-the top -part of Barr ?*lke--for this reason the last run of water is
usually in July.
4. There is no employment in this -area and it is an unreasonable di-stance to
travel to places where jobs are -available.
5. limited telephone service.
6. No -fire protection available.
7. No medical asei-stance--no shopping area near-by.
8. No local law infercesaent. -
9. Long distrance for children. to -go to school.
10. The project would result in a segrated area which is very undesirable.
Name Address
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Page 2 Request b 7165 Eb of the SE4 of the SE4 of Sec 7 2N R 65w from zoning
+Af District t//'o R U D _zoning Apposed:
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We the undersigned are apposed to rezoning the EA of SEE of SE , of Sec. 7 2N R 65W
from A zoning district R UD zoning district (Request #Z165) and the proposed Migrant
and low income families project for the following reasons:
1. Insufficient water simply for domestic use,
2. Poor soil is not adapted to growing garden crops.
3.Speer ditch which supplies irrigation water for this area can draw water only
from-the top part of Barr Lake--for this rea son the last run of water is
usually in July.
4. There is no employment in this area and it is an unreasonable distance to
travel to places where jobs are available.
i
5. Limited telephone service.
6. No fire protection available. •
7. No medical assistance--no shopping area near-by.
P. No local Law inforcement.
9. Iong distrance for children to go to school.
10. The project would result in a segrated area which is very undesirable.
Name Address
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Page 2 Request .' Z165 B2 of the SE of the Sal; of Sec 7 2N R 65W from zoning
A District to R L 0 zoning district. Apposed:
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P?ge 2 Request Z265 El of the SE4 of the SEt of Sec I 2N R 651/ from zoning
A District to R U D zoning district. Apposed:
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We the undersigned are apposed to rezoning -the Ei of SEG of SE 4 of Sec. 7 214 ft 45W
from A zoning district R UD zoning district (Request #2165) and the proposed Migrant
and low income families project for the following reasons:
1. Insufficient water supply for domestic use.
2. Poor soil is not adapted to growing garden crops.
3.Speer ditch which supplies irrigation water -for this area can draw water only
from the top part of Barr Like—for this reason the last run of -water is
usually in July.
4. There is no employment in this area and it is an unreasonable distance to
travel to places where jobs are available.
5. Limited telephone service.
b. No fire protection available.
7. No medical assistance—no shopping area near-by.
P. No local Law inforcement.
9. long distrance for children to go to school.
10. The project would result in a segrated area-which is very undesirable.
Name Address
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NAMES OF OWNERS OF PROPERTY WIThiN 500 FEET
NAME MAILING ADDRESS
•
Fred Wiesner 0 � • , Arok. �1c�
Jim Thrnqui s t.... A ,2cs
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- NOTICE
I Pursuant to the zoning laws of
the State of Colorado, a public
hearing will be held in the office
of the Board of County Commis-
sioners of Weld County, Colorado,
Weld:County Court House, Gree-
ley, Colorado, .of the time speci-
fied. .All_persons in any manner
interested ..in the following pro-
posed Change of, Zone are re-
quested to attend -and may be
heard.
DOCKET No. 50
FUND
c/o Roger Lauen
1889 York
Denver, Colorado
DATE: November 4, 1970
TIME: 2:30 O'clock P M.
Request: Change of Zone from
"A" Agricultural District to "R-
IM" Residential Unit Develop-
ment
Lot 13, Wiesner Subdivision
located in the South-half (5%)
,of Section (7),, Township Two
(2) North, Range Sixty-five
(65) West of the. 6th P. M.,
Weld County, Colorado, con-
taining"18.2 acres,More or less.
Dated: September 23, 1970
THE BOAR'D.OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY, COLORADO
By:::ANN SPOMER
COUNTY CLERK AND
RECORDER AND,
- . CLERK TO THE BOARD
Published in The Greeley Boos-
I ter September 25, 1970 and Oc-
;Nbe1`7/ 1.11
NOTICE
Pursuant to the zoning laws of the State of Colorado, a public hearing
will be held in the office of the Board of County Commissioners of Weld
County, Colorado, Weld County Court House, Greeley, Colorado, at the time
specified. All persons in any manner interested in the following proposed
Change of Zone are requested to attend and may be heard.
Docket No. 50 F. U. N. D.
c/o Roger Lauen
1389 York
Denver, Colorado
Date: Novembet 4, 1970
Time: 2:30 o' clock P. M.
Request: Change of Zone from "A" Agricultural District to "R-UD"
Residential Unit Development
Lot 13, Wiesner Subdivision located in the South-half (Si) of Section
Seven (7) , Township Two (2) North, Range Sixty-five (65) West of the
6th P. M. , Weld County, Colorado containing 18.2 acres, more or less.
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY, COLORADO
BY: ANN SPOMER
COUNTY CLERK AND RECORDER AND
CLERK TO THE BOARD
DATED: SEPTEMBER 23, 1970
Publish: The Greeley Booster
September 25 & October 23
C C ; / i�_
BEFORE THE WELD COUNTY, COLORADO PLANNING COMMISSION
RESOLUTION OF RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
.
Case No. 2-165 Date 9/9/70
S-81
APPLICATION OF F. U. N. D. c/o Roger Lauen
Address 1889 York Denver, Colo.
Moved by Ronald Heitman that the following resolution be introduced for pas-
sage by the Weld County Planning Commission:
Be it Resolved by the Weld County Planning Commission that the application
for rezoning from "A" ( Agricultural District to R-UD (Residential Unit Development
R&A4 tildiotL CArden Estates of
covering the following described property in Weld County, Colorado, to-wit:
Lot 13, Wiesener Subdivision located in the South—half (Si-) of Section Seven
(7), Township Two (2) North, Range Sixty-five (65) West of the 6th P. M., Weld
County, Colorado containing 18.2 acres more or less
See attached zone map and Unit Development plan
be recommended (favorably) (u6r$Ct7MC to the Board of County Commissioners
for the following reasons: All the elements of good planning are included in
the proposal, also it is an effort to provide low cost housing for low income
groups.
Subject to 6O' Right-of-ways and the cul-de-sacs be built
Motion seconded by Glen..Anerson .
Vote:
For Passage: ... G'en...Mderson Against Passage:
Leonard..Bartels.
Philip. Bowles
Ronald Heitman
Adam..LePora.
The Chairman declared the Resolution passed and cordered that a certified copy be -forwarded
with the file of this case to the Board of County Commissioners for further proceedings.
PC-Z-005
CERTIFICATION OF COPY
I, - .PorcithY , Recording Secretary of Weld County Planning
Commission, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing Resolution is a true
copy of. Resolution of Planning Commission of Weld County, Colorado, adopted on
Sept, 8 .,.1970 and recorded in Book No. III , Page No. , of the
proceedings of said Planning Commission.
Dated this 9th day of Sept , 19 70
Recording Secretary,( Weld County Planning Commission
PC-Z-006
6 29.8 3
,"A,
to
"R'= Residential
Unit Development
� I
LOT 13 o I
7 N 18.473* Acres '9 I
Jam-/ to
r
N I
Scale: Ifir 300' — MI
21
-al
of
a:i
c
of
Zvi
629.58'
_County Road No. 22 — — — — -4SE Cor. Sec.7
T.2N. R65W
REZONING RiQUEST NO. Z— 165
ROGER J. LAUEN (F. U. E. D. )
Docket No.
A Part of the Solith - of Section 7, T.2 N. R. 65 W. of the 6th P.M.
From "A" to "R" Residential Unit Development
Lot 13 of the Wiesner Subdivision, First filing a subdivision in Weld
County, Colorado, located in the South one—half of Section 7,
Township 2 North, Range 65 West of the Sixth principal meridian,
Weld County, Colorado.
Approved and Recommended by Weld County Planning Commission.
Date
Chairman
Adopted by Board of County Commissioners, Wel-d County, Colorado.
Date
Chairman
Hello