HomeMy WebLinkAbout730651.tiff DOCKET $44
PANHANDLE EASTERN
P. O. BOX 65
GREELEY, COLORADO 80631
DATE: August 13, 1973
TIME: 10 : 10 A. M.
REQUEST: Land Use Permit
Liquid terminal site and
Compressor Station
PUBLISHED: July 13 & August 3, 1973
MR. TELEP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let the record show that this cause came on for hearing
on this day upon the application of Panhandle Eastern, % George
Minturn, P. O. Box 65, Greeley, Colorado, seeking a Land Use
Permit for a liquid terminal site and compressor station to be
located upon a parcel of land in the SWaSW4 Section 23, T2N,
Range 65 West of the 6th P.M. , Weld County, Colorado and more
particularly describe in metes and bounds as duly shown in the
notice that was published as required by law in the Greeley
Journal on July 13, and August 3, 1973, respectively. Let the
record further show that there are in the file, several receipts
in3icating that the adjacent land owners were notified by certified
mail of the hearing today. Thus affording them the opportunity
to be present and to testify either in favor or against the
granting of this site location. Let the record still further
show that there is in the file a resolution from Weld County
Planning Commission recommending favorably and again the reasons
that work can be gone into further, further detail by Planning
Director Mr. Burman Lorensen. Let the record also show that
the petitioner is present, being represented by counsel Mr. Walker
Miller. I believe we are ready to proceed .now, Mr. Chairman.
MR. ASHLEY: Mr. Miller would you like to proceed.
MR. MILLER: Yes, I would, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
My name is Walker Miller, I'm an attorney in Greeley. I' d like
to introduce a Mr. Jack Ross, who is Corporate Counsel with
Panhandle Eastern and Mr. Bill DeLap, who is the Area Superin-
tendent for Panhandle Eastern.
PL0758
730651
MR. MILLER: We have been before you gentlemen
previously concerning various sites . This site fits into the
general pattern and if I could get Bill to show you the map,
to give you an idea what we are doing. Previous sites that
we' ve talked to you about have been terminal sites a, liquid
terminal sites have been called inessence what you are
talking about is a field of wells that is serviced or runs
through one of these sites, you recalled we talked about
removing impurities as far as the gas is concerned and processing
it on to market . That has been these two sites. The site that
we are requesting, a Special Use Permit, is this site we call the
Hudson Compressor Station Site. It ' s the same process as far
as servicing this area of wells as far as processing it through
the terminal site. But in addition this is a compressor station
to help push the gas on to the market. And as I understand it
also to, if necessary, help to bring the gas to that point and
then to push it on to market. Now I think you gentlemen are
probably generally familiar with the fact that these gas wells
will through exchange agreements and what not, approved by the
Federal Power Commission, will actually service the Denver
Metropolitan area. It ' s anticipated, I suppose hoped, that there
will be as many as two hundred wells in this, these various areas .
But, in order not to repeat many of the things we have talked
about in the past, you again have a terminal site that services
an area. In addition you have the necessary compressor station
that pumps it on. Now I might add that the compressor station
does involve some machinery, we of course have compiled the
necessary detailed data both with the Planning Commission and
with the State Health Department. I think perhaps one point
that I would certainly want to emphasize is that after I sat
through the previous hearing, is that this site is very isolated.
It is literally the end o£ the road in the Hudson Keenesburg area.
There will be some noise associated with the motors and in order
to have the compressors operating. There is no residence within
a mile . I 'm not real sure what the specific location of the
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nearest residence would be in distance,but by the guidelines of
the Planning Commission, we would tell you that there is no
residence within a mile. We have submitted with our application
the signature o£ the Powers and Eichthaler, I guess, I don't
know how they pronounce the name which, are adjacent landowners
who signed the petition supporting the application for the
Special Use Permit. There will on this site be an apparent need
for a small sewer system, We have been in contact with the
Planning Commission, we have no difficulty whatsoever and with
the Health Department meeting these requirements . It is my
understanding that our plan doubles the requirement of the Health
Department. There may be a small domestic water need. We would
apply for the well permit and presumably it would be given. This
is a forty acre site. If there is any problem with water, the
water would be trucked in. This is a very necessary part of the
entire developement of the gas field. I think that it has wisely
been located. It certainly is not an obtrusive use but it does
involve buildings and so forth as shown on our plans and speci-
fications submitted to you. We have not located it in an area
where it could possibly be obtrusive to anybody. I don' t mean
by that to suggest that it is an obtrusive use. But if someone
felt that it was we are certainly remote enough from any possible
objection. I don 't know whether you gentlemen have any questions .
I know that it has been a long hearing before. I don' t think
that it would serve any purpose for me to go on in any detail.
If you have any questions Mr. DeLap and Mr. Ross can certainly
answer them.
MR. ASHLEY: What about a septic system?
MR. MILLER: Yes .
MR. ASHLEY: Does that indicate that (not audible)
MR. MILLER: No, were talking about one stool and one
wash basin. It' s very small.
MR. ASHLEY: How many employees?
MR. DE LAP: There ' ll be two to three people out there
at the most during and eight hour day and that ' s what the stool
and lavoratory facilities would be for.
MR. ASHLEY: Nobody living there?
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MR. DE LAP: Nobody living there.
MR. ASHLEY: There be some buildings on this one?
MR. DE LAP: There will be some buildings on this .
The primary building will be the compressor station housing
which houses the engines . There will be then the small
locker area and office area, and there will be a couple
of smaller building, the electrical and air compressor
building and some of the facilities which are similar to those
which are located on the terminal site . The compressor station
building I believe is about 180 fed long and I believe about
80 feet wide.
MR. MOSER: Are there holding tanks on this site?
MR. DE LAP: We have the same sort o£ storage tanks
that we have on the terminal sites where the residue from
the natural gas stream is taken out which will be trucked out.
MR. MOSER: If I may ask, does the Panhandel Eastern
have a request to have some additional roadways built in say
from the westerly part of this location. Do you know?
MR. ROSS : I believe that we do. At the present
time all they' ve done. We were considering that the county
would be interested in opening the road out west and we initiated
a petition which I think there have been some questions by some
of the land owners that through Mr. Powers we haven' t pressed
it or anything. If there are any objections why I think if I
understood the objections and we have had quite a few things more
pressing than that road. We thought we ' d just kind of hold off
on that and then see if we can't work out - as I understood it
just very minor things such as getting cattle from one side of
the road to the other.
MR. MOSER: Would this be the purpose of this road?
Would be for what purpose outside of the one that does serve the
site now.
MR. ROSS: Of course , the one that serves the site now,
we 're afraid that in the winter we 're going to have trouble getting
in and out of there.
MR. MOSER: I understand, but I mean the possible
upgrading of the present entrance to the site.
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MR. ROSS : Oh yea, I ' d think we ' d be interested in
that.
MR. MOSER: Well yes , but I mean would this other,
shall we say proposed roadway have any advantages outside of
maybe being, a betterly improved type of road?
MR. ROSS : Sure, routes for our employees . You
know, the' ll be making the other parts of the field and then
coming by here some of them, and the way it is now, you have to
go clear down to Hudson, you know, and then come back up through
the sand.
MR. MOSER: Well, yea, that' s a difference of two miles .
Roughly, I believe, two and a half. Fifty two is on a half mile
line. So what are we talking about? Are you going to approach
from a westerly direction instead of from a southern direction?
MR. ROSS: Yea, actually, you could make a circle
around through there I guess.
MR. MOSER: Well, this is my district and of course
I am vitally interested in any new road proposals . Of course ,
we 're up to here now in bridges out everything else. Cost . . . .
MR. ROSS: That' s one of the reasons we haven 't
pursued it too far. Byron indicated that even if everybody
was in favor of it, they wouldn't be able to do anything with
it right away.
MR. DE LAP : We 've seen that there are problems there
that we hadn' t anticipated when we first proposed it there.
MR. ROSS: This is an ultimate desirable thing, you
know.
MR. ASHLEY: Anything else Roy?
MR. MOSER: No, I think I 'm entirely familiar with
the location. I know exactly where it is . I have been across
there many times on horseback and jeeps and everything else
through the years . Infact, by the time I was probably five or
eight years old I' d been over that area many times . No, no
further questions on this .
MR. ASHLEY: Is that all Jim?
MR. ROSS: Yea, that' s really all I have.
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MR. MOSER: That doesn't cost any extra for that
display.
MR. ASHLEY: Does anybody else like to speak in favor
of this? Everybody in the room in favor hold up their hand.
MRS. EICHTHALER: I want to ask some questions .
MR. ASHLEY: We ' ll get to that. Just a moment if
your in opposition.
MRS. EICHTHALER: Not really.
MR. ASHLEY: Nobody in favor?
MR. ROSS & MR. MILLER: Well sir, we ' re obviously
in favor.
MR. ASHLEY: Five?
MR. OLSON: Six.
MR. TELEP: Are you in favor?
MRS. EICHTHALER: I 'm in favor, but I want to ask
some questions .
MR. ROSS : There' s another gentleman back here .
MR. TELEP: Seven?
MR. ASHLEY: Seven.
MR. OLSON: Yes .
MR. ASHLEY: Now, would anybody like to ask some
questions or speak in opposition?
MRS. EICHTHALER: Yes, I'm Margrit Eichthaler. My
property joins this proposed plan on the South. I own the
W1 S26 , T2, R65 , and I would like to know a little bit more
about the noise. We live a mile South. We 've got an oil rig
right in our back door now, and if it' s anything like that
I don' t want it.
(NOT AUDIBLE)
MRS. EICHTHALER: My gads, they ' re only down 3, 000
feet, we hope .
MR. ROSS : Well, I think we have to touch it. Do
you want to speak out on that, or do you want me to go ahead
with it?
MR. DE LAP: Go ahead. Then I' ll answer anything that
you don' t.
MR. ROSS: What we have on here which might let' s say,
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createany noise really, which would go any distance , would be
that which would eminent from the compressor station building
itself. A, we will have four compressor engines located inside
this building and each of these are about 3,000 horsepower.
MRS. EICHTHALER: They' re inside the building?
MR. ROSS: They' re inside a building and I've got
copies and I would be happy to show you. I believe there
already are copies of the building filed with the Planning
Commission. So, it would be housed inside a building which is
a complete closed structure. It will be located almost within
the heart of the acreage, the forty acreage , itself.
MRS. EICHTHALER: Right in the center?
MR. ROSS: Right, so the setback is considerable . I
haven' t calculated it up in hundreds of feet, but it is a
considerable setback for this portion of the structure.
MRS. EICHTHALER: How would this affect any one living
closer?
MR. ROSS: Well, we have many facilities which are
far larger than this that are almost located in the middle of
towns . Or not in the middle , of towns but edge of towns , and
I can say we 've had far larger facilities with far more horse-
power with very few complaints from adjacent neighbors . They
aren' t really what you would call all that noisy. Especially
because of the fact that they are enclosed. In any area where
we have had a problem where we have people as close as 100 feet
or so, we've taken measures necessary, of course, to reduce the
sound levels. But, I don' t of course, believe here. . .
MRS. EICHTHALER: It would be minimal?
MR. ROSS: It would be minimal yes . It ' s extremely
minimal.
MR. ASHLEY: They have mufflers on them, don 't they?
MR. ROSS : Yes, that ' s right. They have mufflers on
the engines. It' s certainly. . .
MRS. EICHTHALER: We run livestock right up there.
See, we join you right to the south.
MR. ROSS: Right, we have in many o£ our compressor
station area livestock on all sides. Most of our sites are
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far smaller than this forty acres. Most of them might run a
maximum of twenty acres . Of course, one reason. . .
MRS. EICHTHALER: The one over West of Lupton is much
smaller.
MR. ROSS : Yea, now that' s Bill DeLap' S . That' s
probably that Amoco plant you have reference to.
MRS. EICHTHALER: I don't know what it is. It' s right
on the road going north off of fifty two.
MR. ROSS: Yes, ma' am that' s the Amoco plant and
that' s is some ways similar to the plant you' ll have there. We ' ll
be back further from the road than that.
MRS. EICHTHALER: Well, I know this is very essential
that we have this . I just wondered about the noise.
MR. DE LAP: Well, we 're conscious of that.
MRS. EICHTHALER: We moved off of the highway and
we got back in the boondocks . And now we don' t want to hear
anything.
MR. ROSS : I don 't blame you. I know you' re problem
with the drilling rig. I 've got one next to me out there. It
only takes ten days.
MRS. EICHTHALER: As to this road that Mr. Moser
answered, or asked about. I am very much opposed to putting
that road in from the West. Very much so. Because it would
cost the taxpayers a lot of money as far as that is concerned,
and we have wide open spaces in ranching. We ' re having enough
cattle thieves as it is . It would just expose us to more public
and people coming in there and I'm very much opposed to opening
that road.
MR. ASHLEY: Is there a ditch or a canal or something?
MRS. EICHTHALER: Yes , and that sure saves our neck .
It sure does. It really does . We' ve had a big problem in there
and if it were so that the people could get in there, I don't
know whether Mr. Powers and we could even stay in business.
MR. ROSS: Rustling?
MRS. EICHTHALER: Rustling ' s terrible in that area.
Mr. Moser' s aware of that.
MR. ASHLEY: A bridge would have to be built across that.
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MRS. EICHTHALER: Yes , a big bridge. A lot of
money bridge.
MR. ASHLEY: You don' t like bridges then?
MR. MOSER: Sandy, sandy hills, too, there. . .
MRS. EICHTHALER: Well, if the bridge is big it' s
almost impossible to hold. Wouldn' t it be?
MR. MOSER: Probably have to be a great big bridge,
too.
MRS. EICHTHALER: Oh, yea, sure.
MR. ASHLEY: Any other questions?
MRS. EICHTHALER: No, that' s all I have.
MR. ASHLEY: Anybody else like to speak? Questions
or in opposition? Anybody in the room hold up their hand in
opposition to this application? Let the record show there is
none. Any further questionsfrom the County Commissioners -
Planning Commission?
MR. LORENSEN: Mr. Chairman, the Planning Commission
recommends favorably to the Board of County Commissioners for
the following reasons. Agrees with the Land Use Policy. Agrees
with the surrounding land use and zoning. Would recommend that
it be subject to the Health Department recommendations on their
sewage. We haven 't received those as yet. And subject to
construction begin within one years time period from date of
approval and limited to the plans as submitted.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, in previous plans that we
have submitted we have indicated a three or four strand barbed
wire and thats indicated here as well. On the last permit that
was granted to us, contrary to our plan the resolution called
for a chain link fence on I believe the ten acre site. We
meant to ask about this and we haven 't yet done this . This
is of course an expense factor. And at least for this site, we
surely want the plea of record that this only be a four strand
barbed wire fence and not a chain link around forty acres . And
if it 's at all possible that we modify the previous resolution
on the ten acre site which is still substantial with regard to
the chain link if that' s at all possible .
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MR. MOSER: In regards to a four wire fence now your
other recommendations are probably or would be in line with the
way state building fences . Steel or wooden posts every sixteen
feet and then be upright connectors in between.
MR. MILLER: I know what you' re talking about. Yes , I
would think that there would be absolutely no question about that.
It' s just a chain link fence on that much. That ' s a very
expensive item.
MR. MOSER: If this four strand barbed wire fence is
built properly with proper connecting fishers to hold the wires
together on every four feet, it' s almost impossible for any
creature to get through that. Even antelope shy away from it
if the bottom wire is low enough. They don' t like to try to
tackle that.
MR. TELEP: Walker, what's the definition of a legal
fence? Is it four or five strand?
MR. MILLER: I think legally, three .
MR. MOSER: Used to be, Sam.
MR. TELEP: Posts set not further than x feet?
MR. MILLER: Awe , I can' t remember that.
MR. MOSER: One rod. I think one rod, sixteen and half
feet.
MR. ASHLEY: Any comments on that Mr. Lorenson?
MR. LORENSON: Well, Mr. Chairman, on the ten acres
site it was requested by the staff a chain link fence seemed. . .
Apparently the Planning Commission felt like going along with
this. However, the Planning Commission since that time have
devoided most of these plans of vegetation at least and have
made really no comment concerning fencing. However, I felt
that if they were going to fence the entire area of forty acres
with a fence, it would seem unreasonable. Chain link fencing
may be desirable in the immediate perimeter around the facilities
if they' re being located in a concentated area. I feel that the
chain link fencing still may be of value in a smaller area. But
I agree with the applicants that forty acres of chain link fencing
is a little ridiculous .
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MR. ROSS: Thank you.
MR. ASHLEY: Is there any need for this chain link
around your facilities?
MR. ROSS: We can' t see any at this time right now.
We obviously if we are located in a city or an area where you've
got high population density just for reasons of safety for every-
body involved. In keeping an attractive nuisance from being
developed obviously we will. But in many installations we
either have no fencing or we have this three or four strand.
Especially in view of the fact where this is located, we would
think a three or four strand would be appropriate.
MR. ASHLEY: The other site' s a little different than
this one. Isn' t that true?
MR. TELEP: The other one' s ten acres .
MR. ROSS: Yea, the other is ten acres and it was
very similar to the others we have gotten approvals before that, we
had just a three or four strand barbed wire requirement for.
That' s what came back as extremely unusual in the resolution
that on this one which was similar to others having been passed
that we had a chain link requirement.
MR. ASHLEY: That' s on only one of your two sites
you' ve got that?
MR. ROSS: Right.
MR. TELEP : Mr. Chairman, I don't know, but that
was in the record. Now, whether that was inadvertently put in
or why, I don't know. Personally as counselor, I could care
less . I could see the cost factor involved there. And I
do, from a legal standpoint, can see no justifiable reason for
having chain link fence around ten acres . But for a compound
situation to enclose a particular structure, I can see where
you going twenty feet one way and one hundred feet another way
around that would be different. So, if it' s, I don' t know
what your pleasure is in the matter and I'm glad that counsel
brought it up.
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MR. MOSER: I would just, I personally like to see a
recommendation for the four wire barbed wire fence rather than
the three strand barbed wire fence, because I realize this is
an area where cattle are predominantly there. And they do
have a habit of, especially small calves, to get through a three
wire fence. Where, very seldom do they get through a properly
built four strand barbed wire fence .
MR. ROSS: That' s what we ' ll do then. Propose this
as part of the plan.
MR. ASHLEY: Out here west of town, Public Service is
building upon a site about the size of this one . They ' re chain
linking all around that plus through the middle. Your situation
is surely different for safety? I wouldn' t let them get by with
a four wire fence out there, with that thing in the middle .
MR. ROSS: What did they have? They probably have. . .
MR. ASHLEY: Substation.
MR. ROSS: Oh, well, high voltage.
MR. ASHLEY: Yea.
MR. ROSS: Right, that' s power hazard.
MR. ASHLEY: You don 't have any hazards out there?
MR. ROSS: No, we shouldn' t. If there was an area in
the plant where we had that high voltage situation, we would put
a little fence around it.
MRS. EICHTHALER: May I speak? I am Margrit Eichthaler
again and we have a terrible problem out there with trespassing.
Are you going to have a night watchman?
MR. ROSS: We don' t plan on one, I hopewe don 't. . .
MRS. EICHTHALER: Well, I ' ll tell you what happened
to the Public Service. These two boys came out from a city quite
a long ways away from there and as my husband and I were out
checking cattle, we saw sparks flying from that high power line.
So he had to stay home and I went on up there and I find two
boys trying to shoot the main wire of that power line, besides
shooting all of the insulators off. Well, I went back and got
my husband. He, being a Deputy Sheriff, he put them under
arrest and turned them over to the Public Service. They were
prosecuted here in Weld County and they got them on sabotage
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and something else. Now you are going to have a lot of
trouble because we are running them out constantly. They
like to go back in there because it 's dead end and it ' s no
place to go and yet they think they 're out of the way and
you are going to have a problem.
MR. ROSS: Well, we appreciate you giving us that
information.
MRS.EICHTHALER: I know, we 've been there thirty
years.
MR. ROSS: If we have problems, we' ll take the
appropriate measures.
MRS. EICHTHALER: Yea.
MR. ASHLEY: Anybody else like to speak?
MR. POWERS: I'm Jess Powers , owner of the land.
Now, you' re speaking of your fence. I would much rather see
a four wire fence which I have ten miles now which I maintain
continuously and good posts , because it is safer for a fire
hazard. Now, you put up a real log fence and sometimes you' ll
have Russian Thistle come from several miles and fire get in
that and burn the whole ranch off. And a good four wire
fence I 'm sure would be very substantial and would be appreciated
a lot more than a real log fence in that country. Because several
years ago, we put in a course of mile of steel posts and four
wires and a stay in between. It had been in two years and
Russian Thistle, where they came from nobody knows ,but they
cam for miles and they bent that post and bent ' em over we
couldn' t hardly, use a post. We couldn't hardly get the post
off and I have always used wooden posts since. Because the
weed problem is something. Somethimes it will drift back six
to eight feet from a fence. A year ago, I had a mile of that
run East and West. And I could not get into that even to put
a steeple because the Russian Thistle had came for miles . And
got back five or six feet and you get a fire in that you get a
real log fence you' ll have Russian Thistle clear to the top of
it. Which is really a fire hazard. And a good four wire fence
with good posts sixteen or eighteen feet a part would really
answer the purpose. And I assure you of that because I maintain
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a lot of fences.
MR. ASHLEY: That' s a good point.
MR. POWERS : Just the other day, we had a fire and it
took out eleven posts up in the corner. And the wife and I was
over there and where the fire started nobody knows. But it sure
burnt the posts up. Just left the wires . A real log fence
would be a death out in that country.
MR. ASHLEY: Any questions , Roy?
MR. MOSER: Oh, I agree one hundred percent with
what Mr. Powers said.
MR. ASHLEY: Now I entertain a motion to deny or accept
it.
MR. MOSER: I entertain a motion to the chair that we
approve this request of Panhandle Eastern for development.
MR. ASHLEY: Chair seconds the motion. How do you
vote Mr. Moser?
MR. MOSER: Yes
MR. ASHLEY: Chair votes yes . Let the record show
Docket #44 is approved.
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