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Home My WebLink About700371.tiff FINDINGS AND RESOLUTION CONCERNING APPLICATION OF THE CITY OF GREELEY WELD COUNTY, COLORADO FOR APPROVAL OF SITE FOR A SEWAGE TREATMENT FACILITY The application of the City of Greeley, Weld County, Colorado, requesting approval of site for a sewage treatment facility known as Site No. 7, came on for hearing June 3, 1970, at 3:00 p. m. , in the District Courtroom, Weld County Courthouse, Greeley, Colorado, and the Board of County Commissioners of the County of Weld, having heard the testimony and evidence produced upon said hearing, and having considered the testimony, evidence, petitions and remonstrances filed with said Board, and having carefully weighed the same, now makes the following findings: 1. The evidence and investigation shows that the inhabitants of the immediate vicinity of the area whereat said facility is sought to be installed, are unanimously opposed to the installation of such facility. 2. The evidence and investigation shows that said site lies in a potential growth area, and that same would be a source of air pollution to the surrounding property owners. 3. No good reason has been given by the petitioner as to why said install- ation should be in the particular location chosen rather than in some other location more compatible for this type of facility. 4. That each of the preceding findings in and of themselves and independent of each other constitutes a separate and individual ground for denial of the application. RESOLUTION WHEREAS, the Board of County Commissioners of the County of Weld has heard the application of the City of Greeley requesting approval of site for a sewage treatment facility known as Site No. 7 on the following described property, to-wit: /� 700371 A parcel of land in the Southwest Quarter (SWg) of Section Five (5), and in the Southeast Quarter (SE4) of Section Six (6), Township Five (5) North, Range Sixty-four (64) West of the Sixth P. M. , Weld County, Colorado, lying south of the Ogilvie Ditch and north of the Platte River and containing 186 acres, more or less, WHEREAS, the said Board has made its findings upon the evidence, testimony and petitions submitted to it, including its own personal investi- gation of the premises where said facility is sought to be installed, which findings precede this Resolution and by reference are incorporated herein and made a part hereof; and WHEREAS, the said Board has carefully considered the application, evidence, testimony and petitions and given the same such weight as it in its discretion deemed proper, and is now fully advised in the premises; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the application of the City of Greeley, Weld County, Colorado, for approval of site for a sewage treatment facility known as Site No. 7 on the premises indicated above, be, and it hereby is, denied upon each of the grounds set forth in the Board's findings therein. Made and entered this 1st day of July, 1970. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, WELD COUNTY, COLORADO ATTEST: ;l CLERK OF THE BOARD ; ,. f-e-f. - k--' Deputy County Clerk APPROVED AS TO FORM: COUNTY ATTORNEY l , j 2 V „ t r�/Lc_azirni, 4 (2.71,1_,”: . a/_ 7-,...ota.i.7,, 24.'"' it , 7 7 0 '.40- ki1 _Ad t_ Lc L L/ ,C-C.`-C..r1/ i I Cfri `' € i.Z , , (, -,1,.c-,fri.,J 9--t( n-4 / ,- is.,,-, 2 3 2yii % e:/e:: .‘-",c 4-01 G -.4 .-., .2 Ar---i-r-- -.,,,,,,..„_„,„., 6,2, , ce ee e (/ /-9-Yzti2/i jl l27y � �y'`�� ) l w-u; , " - "c? ja--c -r , /-e.�r< i�,l24 ZZ// .% <,ti,7-C'-7l / -/ 2-( (-C^, ' IILt ii &-C � 271, Rj _cc !" LC). 5 5,7L-/ ,� /E/ ' ., /;7 7/�Z )"//i , '//` ',)j '' // JJ l" / T? ,.//71l✓LC/ iG1G �f r� �J / 5 C'f�s✓ c /n, 'Jt;{ ✓ ✓�71 ° " ^;ct,z,o - `C.L'' .r-7.e' et. � l Jt _-.56 - _ Lc / ' Lt / T /2 1. 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L.,, CZ a [ fe� y , L ' _t e-[mot-( I S C. / 4 c ,, ct-, e1- (,._ 2 /q -2V — 5 Z L /�et �v,-/ a/a: - >3Uk / // /I-OZ 21 1 J ,/,�; /�? /i I „. - / z'' Jx -f t 7) 1 l/ 222,46 «L;,/ /X z�e y. Ls-L- L - t., t__/ 7 i L l` /i2�y -y--.fz i_!'` Z� /cG —AZ( of �� It 03 C-____ git- ( ✓J c,-✓ /6.J -i.F_%✓ / -c/ /1s-,- e :j / 7 -C70- / 63 °F ≥- % elkm iA- Y /2-e27 0):_ 71 ��„ '2 vy ti&/ �i /d a —' �p�O' vi 621,4 w c- X/ -14.cw,.- JO2. C' - 2 Y cc (:-k_ c iz- ,k, t_ v (411 I ,y //,'1 /,3 Cy /30) tA `7-13 ) Lc t. Notes taken at a spec i meeting that was held in the C ice of the Board of County Commissioners on June 23,1970 at 9:00 A. M. Present: Mr. Lowell Adams, Monfort of Colorado Mr. Hank Brown, Monfort of Colorado Mr. George Hall, City of Greeley Board of County Commissioners Purpose: To explain to those present some of the difficulties and problems and some of the information that had arisen over the Sewage Lagoon Site Number 7. Mr. Glenn Billings explained that the only function the Board of County Commissioners had was to approve the location site for this lagoon, but that they were concerned over the type of plant and some of the repercusions that might develop if this site was approved. He advised that the city of Greeley would more then likely be served with a court injunction and that this would delay and cause additional problems. Printed copies of the report that was made by Mr. Frank Bond was given to each person, and these were discussed in general. It was the feeling of those present that advise from professional people should be considered and that much money had been paid to people that had the authority to speak on this subject. But, that it was a difficult situation and there would always be some type of opposition to any site. However, the Board restated their feeling, that they wish to do the best for every one, and did not want to see the City of Greeley have an injunction filed against them. Mr. Lowell Adams expressed the opinion that the closer the lagoons were to Monforts Plant the more successful they would be, but that they all should try to figure something out. Discussion followed as to different sewage plants, John Mansville pipe, the PH count and all agreed that there were many variables to be considered. Mr. Marshall Anderson ask if there would be any objections to a different site, that was very similiar in the physical nature, being given approval. Mr. Anderson had done considerable research on this and thinks that it might be possible to obtain a site that was only one mile difference in location and that would be acceptable to all. It was agreed that this should be given consideration and a meeting date was set for July 6,1970 at 9:30 A.M. in the Office of the Commissioners. Mr. Hall said that he felt something must be done very fast, as he thought the residents on the east side of Greeley would get an injunction against the present sewage system. He ask that if site 7 was refused how long it would take to make a decision on site 8. The Commissioners assured him that it could be handled very fast. The meeting adjourned and those present left to view a possible new site. ,ee Ling with Mr. Frank Bo--; on June 15,1970 taken from tape; beginning portion of the tape (was unable to pick up the How do you run your packing house in the winter time It was in the paper that these guys got fined eleven hundred dollars for not clodng the by-pass and so I got it out of this Young fellow that they dump it in the rf river, just dump it direct into the river when she freezes up solid. That is the only way they can handle it. They have no other wa freeze up solid and they will not work at all. y' with they their freezelagoons they solid and then when they start thawing is when the when get the rst odor. Now up when I was there, the odor seemed to have passed, everyone told me this but you still had quite a bit of odor. I could stand it, it wasn't that bad. The people at Denison where Wells said that he built these Lagoons. (there are two lagoon systems). I didn't get to talk to the plant manager at Quanquist (sp) to find out if Mrs. Wells engineered that one or not, but Mrs. Wells did engineer the other one. I did see the contract, Mr Wells had not it at all. I also ran into two or three people that knew them. I was told that she was an electrical engineer. I did not have time to check this out in Omaha whether she was or wasn't. I think it is something that should be checked This man Young that was at the plant was called in special to talk to me. He is a specialist in the lagoon field. Marsh: His name is Jim Young. Frank: Yes, he is from the University of Iowa. I think he is one of the top engineers at the plant. The plant there is owned by the city and the University. He is the top man there. He can answer more of your questions in five minutes than I could all day. These fellows were real nice to me. I told them that I am just a farmer, don't talk over my head. Because, I don't understand all of these things. I wrote down all they said. (presented notes to board and a study that he made) One of them told me that she( Mrs. Wells) could get in a lot of trouble doing this. I said back to him, "I didn't come here to get the lady in trouble I just came here to find out all I could about lagoons. it is nothing to me one way or another. I asked this man Young, point blank "Is this man Wells capable of spending a million borrowed dollars to build a lagoon system?" he did not studder or stammer, he just answered by saying "Well, his wife is, she build quite a few of them, but he did not answer my question if Wells was capable. So this kind of makes you wonder. Now this Des Moines plants, they say that it costs 15 million but that was because it was built quite a number of years ago. You couldn't touch that thing now for 150 million today, it is a big plant it is just huge. old,That is one thing I noticed back there, theirplantshave neverbeen but -ka�ft deteriorated. Now from what the engineer has told us, and I have never seen this plant on the inside, all I know is from just looking at the outside. The engineer from Ft. Morgan stated that they had just let this plant (Greeley) fall to pieces. These plants no matter how old, or how new or what the capacity was, they are right up to snuff. Prac ically all of them no matter how small, they have a chemist and one or two others on their staff that work at this thin 'all the time.new angles and so forth. An this Bes Moines plant like I told you i,gisifreenofout order This H. R. Green Engineering is highly recommended by quite a few of these sewer systems. . They want to expand in Colorado and they want to get into Colorado. They say this area in northern Colorado is an opportunity and they have never been able to get out here. Now, to me after lissening to other engineers and other sewer men that this is the best in the state of Iowa, and that this plant in Cedar Rapids is the very best. And if we are going to spend this kind of money. I do believe we could save some money by /etting this company out here. Now this is thoughts, but they did sac' they would just about go to any expense to gett my e own in Colorado. This Ken Castel has visited several times out here , he is from tCedar hed Rapids and he know the Platte River, also the people north of Denver, Ft. Collins, Longmont and knows the problems. He also knows what the PH was in this plant here. 1 2 I had him explain all of this to me, and when techincai information ( see study and materials)u read it you can see all of the Marsh: Frank, we are in a hell of the site. a position. All we have been asked to do is s Frank: I realime this pprove Marsh: The engineer has to come through the city and Monforts. I am if Lowell Adams knows all of this stuff. He is not an engineer, but heiso the r�n who takes care of it. guy We are in a hell of a position, no matter which way we design, how it is set up or nothing like that. NowI know�andwe hyouve know i to say aboutss of what we do. Say we approve that site you that regardless s o we can hang our hats on, except distance hat comes under the heading of the lot and t engineers. Glenn: It gets back to Greeley. Greeley is responsible for the datum thing. Marsh: We are setting between a rock and a hard spot. Regardless of which way we go. Say we take the way of the City of Greeley and the Weld County Planning Commisgon. Number 1, we have got to have facts to hang are hats on. and we are not in the position to engineer. John Mansville says the p on any place that I can find. There is some stuffoncarJ John Mansvilry it, we leit won't. There is Aurora o proof is using some of it. It has come to me that the stuff is flexible and that the joints pipe. The city of sealed. Sealed with mercury seal, and that the da--stuff squashes and then are leaking. This is hear say, goes to the case, and there is a minimundoftasmiletanddhalfaofnwatert(weYsawcit. Now if on that is at Jim Maxeyx) so if that starts, and if the pipe leaks and they start picking supesub- water. We are not in the position to say. We got two (2)things. P Number I. 1300 and some people r Frank: Don't these petitions, at least e h passed circulate, nobody here. Marsh: I have had it from real good sources, from guys that are on the know. Telloeme . that this plant would run 40% efficiency. Frank: That is right, from what I found our back there, I doubt if it was 40 I described them the system, with a few minor chapes %• When an another and to clean it up at Monforts, g , the right PH and this and that this plant here could handle Monforts. (like they make them all to do back there) Marsh: I have been told that by several different people. Frank: the only thing that you have to distance,akt nonbod go on, as far as my report is concerned is the book from Ames, it says thatotemperatuhas redisfthe1s mostpe importantg hiti this far. the one that spoke from the local. outfit. This man said in the newspaper In this important thing. This man Haley, heard him say it. "The heat from the packing house made it hard to process, noI w the wrong. You want it 90 to 95 in order to make it process Iowa they head their regularey good. In all of the slants linis it process good. In all of the Shin Iowag it the up to 90 degrees or 95 in order to make it up to 90 degrees. Y their regular • they Marsh: To me they are bring going to work, when running that in at 87 degrees and it is not Glenn:oig Did you cut off 300 thousand gallons of water. It isn't worth it. you talk to all managers or engineers on all 8 of these plants? Prank: no, on 7 of them. At Minden, Negr. there was no one available. people that went to the plants. At the rest of them I talked to Chamber ofl Commerce ked to he people. Some of the Chamber of Commerce people just didn't know the plant like they should and some of them did know it quite well. But I have the name and address of all the engineers. Glenn: Did they give ,'ou any facts, back there? You said, Lagoons will probably be lawed by the Federal Health Departments nextyear. Did they , out they base this on. P give you any facts, what did Frank: Right at this time, this meeting in Mason City called last week, was for this purpose. There are 17 lagoons in Iowa that have either a law suits, or they are filing law suits on them now. Glenn: What on Frank: Odor, smell and taring was called for this purpose only. Glenn: are any of these salt by Frank: He said, this man Young,thought there wasone right east f his office and the people could not seem to find it. He was at theplaacalled nt when I talked him. I hated to ask the guy to go 5 or 6 miles back to town to get this for me. Buthe to said this was what the meeting was for. He said were l7 lagoons that they were studying. ( and it states in the study) that there in r aska, on was a 50 thousand dollar suit rightinColorado Springs filed lasthe week. A motel owner n know in Colo. Springs is suing the city for $50,000 damages. I didn't eve news, lagoons. I have heard of several suits. But, he said there were 17 to fi they had le. 3 Glenn: The you plant nowt through in Cedar Rapids where they used the ozone treatment. Now, you said this was all enclosed. You said, it was a conventional sewage disposal plant? Frank: Like Greeley's only. they have a dome. Dow Chemical built domes. over each of the units. Frank: Marsh: Do they get fumes off of those domes. Frank: The ozone treatment, eliminates it. At Cedar Rapids, the ozone treatment is all pipes under these domes. And it sets up and the ozone treatment is all piped from the domes. In order to what there is left, they sent it 5 stories high. There is an old building there, and they pipe it up to the top story. You know the fellow that was at the hearing that was talking aoubt the air and so forth. That is what they have, an air specialist, he told them that if they get it to the top of this building, it would never lit the City of Cedar Rapids again, so that is what they did. Now I walked through those plants and you could eat your lunch any where. I looked through those holes in the Dow Chemical covers. The one thing I didn't get was the price of those things. Because the manager and the assistant had gone to,R meting. And I was just butting my head against the wall as I had a few more I `I k at. Glenn: That meeting they all went to was where? Frank: Mason City Glenn: Was it held last Tuesday. Frank: No, on Thursday and Friday. Glenn: There should be some information on this Frank: Yes, and they said they would send me any information that concerned us, as quick as they could. Glenn: He is the Engineer out' of Ames College. Frank: Yes, his address is in the study. James Young ( see the study report) He said some times these meetings were pretty slow, they don't get it out in a week or two. They study and digest this thing. He said they may kick it around a week or 10 days before the actual printing of it. I noticed that these me from there were the same way. They were started in 1965 and mended s h gave in 1968. There is a lot of sluff there. Marsh: I don't know if it would do any good to go and talk to Ben Cruz or not. I don't think or know if Ben would give you and audience or not. Frank: I am not an engineer. I can understand the mechincal part, as a matter of fact at one plant I talked to the mechanic. I understood what he was talking about He started to explain how it all works mechincally, the pipes and what have you. just like a they use a in it, and they bring the electros down into it and shot this with silver iodite and this is what causes and he said, "do you understand this far" said because I have fooled with pipes and railroad engines, motors and etc. and Iknewwes. what he was talking about. He said that is as far as I can go because I am not a chemist, but the chemist can tell you more. So I told him he might as well stop right there because you are over my head. Glenn: This James Young, the engineer from Ames, is he the one that made the statement, as when the lagoons are going to be out lawed? Flank: Yes and the Federal Health Department would be acting on it. Glenn: You have here (see study) that a conventional plant requires only about 2 acres. An.;i t conventional plant at Ames is much larger then Greeley' s plant and serves less people. Frank: One thing you have to remember back there, is that the college there works and does studies all the time. They make a project out of it, just testing bacteria It is just like an IBM machine set up in a hall and they have electrical engineers So naturally with the collegethey have the very best information right up to date. Wextataaxia><xexkbaaak We can't have that because we don't have the personal. Marsh: I wish we could figure out how to get this word to the right people. Frank: I doubt if Ren Gruz would even lkssen to me, I don' t know the man, but. I just have the feeling. 61enn: If we could get some of these people together, could we get you hack in here to talk to them. Frank: Oh I suppose, I don' t know if it would do any good. You are aoino to ha»e to make up your mind if you are going to pass this or not. Glean: The only other thing I would ask. These plants like the one that Young states, he doesn' t state the exact system other then that it is ? enclosed plant. Glenn: If they would go to some type of plant like this. And this seems to be the feeling of everyone that the lagoon system is not the right wasy. That I really couldn't see any objections myself and I would not think that the people in your area would see any objections, locating in that area, if the plant was operated in some of these ways. Frank: If they could prove it, of course they did not put any figures in there. I stated that these packing houses are just across the river about as far as across 4 this city park. _ the river is only about 150ft. wide. Glenn: This pipe that they have is suppose to be a brand new development. There would be a lot of these pt-ople who would not kn ow about it, as it hasn' t been used. Frank: When I mentioned this kind of pipe and that they would transport this far. They just looked at each other and grinned. they thought it so stupid. So I just didn' t pursue it any farther, because it is impossible, that is the anwer they would give me. They would just laugh at you, as to say what kind of a foil are you anywy. T+ s \ - h- -e +},mot; they had ._,_.._ p"c'-' '-"` __..._ i t show that they have to heat this stuff right as it comes out of the packing house. Glenn: They re-heat it right in the plant. Frank: right in the pipes. They have to dig out this stuff with big augars, it is really a mess. But, they had problems taking it .just across the river. Harold: Did I understand you? that they have treatment right at the plants? Frank: yes Glenn: How much is the BOD? Frank: 85 to 95 It is a requirement from the men sewer system company, I don' t think it is a requirement of Iowa. Glenn: what kind of a system are they putting in at the packing plants to do away with this excess BOD Frank: Different types. Some of them have settling vats some of have screen, and some arate. Marsh: Did you see any glex541,th skimmers. Frank: Yes, big ones. In Iowan Falls they have a 30 thousand steel vat. The skimmer ., .they have an augar that comes up through the middle. They use augers or a chain drive that brings this stuff up. Then they have an auger on a chain drive that brings it up to the top above the water bxeex level and dumps it out. This brings all the solids up and just dumps it out. That was not sufficient. it would not work at all. So they got what they called "the gear box" now I don't know what this is, but the gear box would come on the top. This Young, said the gear box was put on , extended the shaft, and put the skimmer above the thing • This skimmer for the fat, has a great big arm that comes around. They have an incline, the arm comes around, skims the vat and drops it. They have blades, some have 3 Or 4. I looked at several plants and its the same thing. Glenn: How many plants did you look at. Frank: I don' t know, I never really kept count. I just wrote these down, because they had packing plants. Glenn: Did you find any lagoon systems that were satisfactory? Frank: The one at Dennison. The smell had gone by , the lady at the C. of C. told me that Dennison (8000pop) had 2 packing houses, beef and pork. ( now here again this man Wells said there were two pork plants there) and another processing plant was going in. She said, that the economy of the city is such that we can stand a little odor. I talked to the Nixon Feed people about 4 mile from it. He said we sell these people a lot of feed, and the farmers cattle to to market, we can put up with a little odor, it isn't that bad. But he also told me ;that during the spring thaw it gets pretty strong. He said we car tolerate it, we get use to it. But, when I drove through the first lagoons, they had a good crust on them..But the wind was blowing and the crust was broke in several places, that is where they get their odor, from the wind. They did have a crust, and you could see where it had shifted and broken and them you get odor. But, when it is sealed completely you get about half this odor. So I ask what this odor was from, if it was sealed completely, and he said the pumping station. The pumping station is between the two lagoons. They had a pumping station down in the middle. I ;don' t know why. I suppose to keep them from freezing. They all have this and they all have that pumping unit down about 14 or 15 feet deep and they never cover that hole. They all smell about the same, however there is a difference between perk and beef. But, boy those hide plants. that smells terrible. (rest of tape is a general repeat, the different plants he visited, most of the information in the study that he presented. ) MINUTES A special meeting was held in the Office of the County Commissioners on May 4,1970 at 11 A.M. Present: Board of County Commissioners Mayor of Greeley, Mr. Richard Perchilk County Attorney, Mr. Samuel Telep Greeley City Manager, Mr. Ben Cruce Greeley City Council member, Mr. George Hall Representatives from the news media Subject: Public Hearing date for Sewage Lagoon Site # 7 Discussion: Mr. Glenn Billings opened the meeting by stating that the Mayor of Greeley, Mr. Richard Perchilk, had requested a meeting with the Board of County Commissioners for an explanation as to why a thirty (30) day public notice was necessary before a hearing date for a site approval of a sewage lagoon. Mr. Billings explained the county' s action by stating, that it was an established procedure to give notice of thirty (30) days in order to allow all protestants an opportunity to prepare their case, hence help ward off any court injunctions. It was explained that the Board of County Commissioners had set June 3, 1970 as the hearing date for this lagoon site and that this had been done on the advice of the County Attorney. Mr. Perchilk stated that he felt this was an undue restriction and would cause a delay and hardship for many. He questioned the legality of this action, and ask that he be allowed to see the statute covering this matter. He speculated on the possibility of the city condemning the land and proceeding with out the county' s approval. Mr. Telep- explained the county' s long record of a thirty (30) day public notice, experiences with previous court injunctions and the county' s zoning resolutions. He felt that the county was acting within their rights and agreed to send to the Yor officials City Greeley copies of the county' s zoningesolutions concerning this matter. The hearing date of June 3, 1970 remained unchanged, and the meeting was closed. Transcripted: Betty Schulte Secretary to the Board Dated: May 4, 1970 NOTICE A public hearing will be held in the District Court Hearing Room, Fourth Floor, Weld County Court House, Greeley, Colorado, at the time specified. All persons in any manner interested in the proposed location of a Sewage Treatment Facility Site are requested to attend and may be heard. Docket 33: The City of Greeley Greeley, Colorado Date: June 3, 1970 Time: 3:00 o'clock P. M. Request: Approval of the Sewage Treatment Facilities, Site VII on the following described property: That part of the SWI of Section 5 and the SE—e of Section 6, Township 5 North, Range 64 West of the 6th P. M. , Weld County, Colorado, lying South of the Ogilvy Ditch and North of Platte River, Containing 186 acres, more or less. Dated: April 29, 1970 THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WELD COUNTY, COLORADO BY: ANN SPOMER COUNTY CLERK AND RECORDER AND CLERK TO THE BOARD Publish: The Greeley Booster May 1 and May 22 The Greeley Tribune k � A� June 3, 1970 I hereby certify that pursuant to a notice dated April 29, 1970, duly published May 1, 1970 and May 22, 1970. A public hearing was had for an Approval of the Sewage Treatment Facility, Site VII, as requested by the City of Greeley, at the time and place specified in said notice. The evidence presented was taken under advisement. /� / ATTEST: (�1LtL/ .-_ i /' �` �� /i' � �� COUNTY CLE ND RECORDER CHAIRMAN AND CLERK TO THE BOARD BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WELD COUNTY, COLORADO Harrtc' A.public hearing will be held in the District Court Hearing Room, Fourth Floor, Weld County Court House, Greeley, Colorado, at the time specified. All persons in any manner interested in.the propose] location of a Sewage Treatment Facility Site are., requested to at- tend and may be heard. DOCKET NO. 33: The City of Greeley Greeley, Colccado DATE: June 3, 1970 TIME: 3:00 O'clock P. M. Request: Approval of the Sew- age Treatment Facilities, Site VII on the following described prop- erty: That part of the SW'- of Sec- tion 5 and the SE'/+ of Section 6, Township 5 North, Range 64 West of the 6th P. M., Weld County, Colorado, lying South of the'Ogilvy Ditch and North of Platte River, containing 186 acres, more or less. Dated: April 29, 1970 THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WELD COUNTY, COLORADO By: ANN SPOMER COUNTY CLERK AND RECORDER AND CLERK TO THE BOARD Published in the Greeley Boos- ter MyI.1,40431.4dare" ` I Affidavit of : blication STATE OF COLORADO, ss. County of Weld, L -- Mildred S. Hansen of said County of Weld, being duly sworn, say that I am the (publisher) (editor) (advertis- -11YIO'E + r ing manager) of tee f lr WftII be held`in THE GREELEY DAILY TRIBUNE, and °O glutur or;; ea a THE GREELEY REPUBLICAN r that the same is a daily newspaper of general 1�6 fn y -� 't , circulation and printed and published inthe b he to eted city of Greeley, in said county and state; that Sews a ee F Fati li oY a the notice or advertisement, of which the an- are tment Facility Site be hea .. �fi attend end may flexed is a true copy, has been published in DOc ai y said daily newspaper for one day; that the ley, e. - bblFr.�ot �r99r notice was published in the regular and De entire issue of said newspaper, and in the TI "' ,("t ? newspaper proper and not in a supplement Ii thereof; that the publication of said notice .<-. was contained in the issue of said newspaper bearing date yt 9 u �7(� b:R of 4th day of Max A.D. 19�; {{ ' .'SYbtd '} e that said The Greeley Daily Tribune and pp rDl yc -aod� he The Greeley Republican, has been published ppu�tt River., a Nor N continuously and uninterruptedly during FF9tte RlvRT 386 the acres, to period of at least six months next Date X976. prior to the issue thereof containing said OF notice or advertisement above referred to; E COUNTY that said newspaper has been admitted to the WELD' United States mails as second-class matter RYo IL 1D0 under the provisions of the Act of March 3, COUN . 1879, or any amendments thereof, and that RRLLgpRp9� ND D(,. ME said newspaper is a daily newspaper duly T qualified for publishing legal notices and The Greeley ribull advertisements within the meaning of the May. 4, 1979: laws of the State of Colorado. (Publisher) (E4-i-ter) (Advertieiag--M& Subscribed and sworn to before me this 5th day of May A.D. 19 70 My commission expires June 6, 1970 . � . / '�/�"/` Notary ublic. AMERICAN PUBLIC WORKS ASSOCIATION COLORADO SOUTHERN WYOMING CHAPTER SEPTEMBER 11 , 1970 Mr . Leroy E. Tobler, President Colorado-Southern Wyoming Chapter American Public Works Association 10280 W. 74th Place Arvada, Colorado 80002 Dear President Tobler;. The Chapter Research Committee was authorized by the Executive Board to secure and review the literature available on Reinforced Plastic Mortar (RPM) pipe. The object of the review was to determine whether sufficient information is presently available to justify a decision on the pipe's acceptability as a sanitary sewer material . • A letter of inquiry was mailed to selected Chapte! Members, manufacturers, contractors and Public Agencies asking for literature and experiences concerning RPM pipe. A large amount of information was received, although there were relatively few replies. The material used is listed on the attached sheet. Fieid trips were aiso made, including a visit to the U. S. Bureau of Recla- mation Testing Laboratories in Denver. The -eview of the material received was made independently by the committee members, An attempt was made to be a critical and objective as possible in `he review, This report is presented as the opinion of informed persons who a:,. involved with sanitary sewer construction, design and maintenance and are free from self-interest concerning materials specifications. C0NCLUt II0N° RPM ripe may reasonably be specified for use in sanitary sewers provided that tee design o the sewer recognizes The flexible character of the pipe and the pos.s i b ie long-term effect of chemical changes i n the plastic component of the pipe walls. the function of a sanitary sewer is to convey liquid and water-carried wastes uninterruptedly with minimum maintenance and with minimum pollution or lnter- ception of ground and surface waters. in order to do this, the conduit most. have structural integrity and resistance to infiltration, abrasion, and chemical deterioration. The information presently available concerning RPM pipe indicates that. it Is ca,=able of ful fi ! 1 inq this function under usual sewage-flow conditions for a reasonable period of time. S1RUCTURAL INTFG7-OTY° RPM pipe is r`ie)Oble and gain , its supporting abi 1 ty through interaction with The material in which ii, is imbedded. Proper bedding and backfilling procedures must be specified and followed with appropriate factors of safety provded Mr. Leroy E. Tobler, President, September 11 , 1970, Page two Published flexible pipe theory may be used in this design. The factor of safety includes an allowance for the predictable reduction of strength due to plastic deformation with age. RESISTANCE TO INFILTRATION_ The rubber gasket joint provided for RPM pipe is bottle-tight when properly installed. Excess joint deformation due to structural deflection may permit leakage past the gasket in the crown of the pipe. This should not occur with- in the usual design tolerances. RESISTANCE TO ABRASION: RPM pipe has an enriched polyester lining which is very resistant to abrasion. Failure of this lining would expose the vulnerable glass fibers to rapid deteri- oration. The harsh erosive action required to penetrate the lining is not typical of sanitary sewage flows and erosion of the lining should be no problem. RESISTANCE TO CHEMICAL DETERIORATION: RPM pipe has been demonstrated to be immune to active deterioration by sulphuric acid, the primary corrosive element created by septic sanitary sewage. The pipe does show a certain strength reduction over a period of time due to being soaked in various chemical solutions, including tap water. In addition it is not indis- criminately immune to all chemicals. Since the historical period of time the pipe has been in service in the field is relatively short, it is impossible to certainly perdict its ultimate service life under usual conditions. Very likely, under extreme adverse conditions such as certain industrial wastes, the pipe could show active chemical (followed by structural ) deterioration. For this reason, the pipe should not be indiscriminately specif ;ed for all locations at all times. However, the usual chemical conditions found in sanitary sewers apparently would not adversely affect the pipe's performance over a reasonable design period. Sincerely yours, IS/ David D. Vanderhoofven Chairman, Research Committee BIBLIOGRAPHY _- RPM PIPE in SANITARY SEWERS Johns-Manville Flextran -- Product data Company bulletins Material Specification DS-935 Bausch, A. C. , Forces at work on Flexible Conduits, Johns-Manville. United Technology Center Techite -- Product Data Company Bulletins & Newsletters Comparative Erosion Study, Interim Report No. Oi010A Installation Guide Specification No. 01036 Proposed ASTM Specification, RPM Sewer Pipe, No. 01028C Specification, RPM Liner Pipe, No. 01039 ASTM Acid Resistance and Water Absorption Tests, Report No. 01012 United States Bureau of Reclamation Evaluation of Reinforced Plastic Mortar Pipe for Water Resources Applications - A Progress report, Timblin and Selander, presented at ASCE Irrigation and Drainage Conference, Austin, Texas, November 6, 1969. Summary of Test Program Government Industry Cooperative Study of RPM pipe, June 25, 1968. Tentative Specifications for Reinforced Plastic Mortar Pressure Pipe, August, 1969, Erosion Studies of Pipe Lining Materials - Fourth Progress Report No. ChE-97, H. Johns, USBR, June 1969. National Clay Pipe Institute —Company bulletins Reinforced Plastic Mortar Sewer Pipe (Physical and Chemical Properties) , Research Report No. 124, NCPI , March 25, 1970. Seminar on Flexible Conduit, NCPI , April-May, 1970. Spangler, M.G. , the Structural Design of Flexible Pipe Conduits, Iowa State College Bulletin 153, 1941 . Watkins and Spangler, Some Characteristics of the Modulus of Passive Resistance of Soil : A Study in Similitude, HR.B Proceedings, Vol . 37. Design and Construction of Sanitary and Storm Sewers, ASCE Manual No. 37. Recommended Practice for Underground Installation of Flexible Thermo- plastic Sewer Pipe, ASTM D2321-67. Standard Specification otr Rubber Rings for A-C. Pipe. ASTM D1869-66. Reynolds., Frank R. , "New Life for a Sewer and Money in the Bank", Public Works Magazine, Nov. , 1969. Foster and Tooley, "We Kept the Sewer in Service. ..while installing new pipe to renovate a failing 30- inch pipe", The American City, Nov. 1969. "Bringing Space Down to Earth", Busine.•._ Week, March 2, 1968. June I, 1970 Mr. Harold Anderson County Commissioner Weld County Court House Greeley, Colorado 80631 Dear Mr. Anderson: I am enclosing a copy of a letter that I wrote to Mr. Leonard Bartels of the County Planning Commission. A letter also was sent to each of the other members of the Planning Commission. I know that you have received a great deal of correspondence, pro and con, regarding the Greeley sewage lagoon issue. I would like to express my concern over this matter, and have done so in the attached letter. The position of the City of Greeley is one of expediency and costs. Judgement in the affairs of government based on these factors can hardly be justified, especially when the long range effect is damaging and irreparable. We must in all conscience plan now for the future generations, and not further pollute the environment that they will inherit. It is my hope that your decision in this matter will be one in opposition to the proposed sewage lagoons. And it is my hope that the City of Greeley will reconsider, and plan for a more desirable method of treating its sewage. Sincerely, Howard W. Johnson Architect Greeley, Colorado HWJ/km �1 GLENN K. BILLIN66, 'n(fi ��.�.pj�11g�, Ar, CHAIRMAN L.... ��y�'sl��'J1 X61- d� RT. 2, BOX 167, GREELEY, COLO, }�1 ��•7s� �_,� HAROLD W. ANDERSON. � [ �,]� CHAIRMAN PRO.TEM RT. 1. JOHNSTOWN, COLO OFFICE OF ANN SPOMER COUNTY CLERK AND RECORDER COUNTY CLERK AND RECORDER MARSHALL H. ANDERSON. PHONE (303) 353.2212 MEMBER 2412 8TH AVE , OREEL[Y, COLO C j � .y f May 11, 1970 Mr. Ben Cruce City Manager, City of Greeley City Hall Greeley, Colorado Dear Mr. Cruce: Enclosed you will find a copy of a legal opinion by the County Attorney as to regulations setforth in the Weld County Zoning resolution which is self explanatory and is being sent to you for your information. Yours truly, • The Board of County Commissioners Weld County,nt� Colorado /2 ��/� Byi .��C�!'i�.Gv � Zs",CE ` Chairman GKB/f I,CIi Ti 2Y i GLENN CHAIRMAN BILLINGS, - rTh RT. 2. BOX 167. GREELEY COLO I J HAROLD W. ANDERSON, CHAIRMAN PRO.TEM RT I. JOHNSTOWN. COO. OFFICE OF THE WELD COUNTY ATTORNEY SAMUEL S TELEP MARSHALL H. ANDERSON, COUNTY ATTORNEY MEMBER PHONE 13031 3525132 2412 BTH AVE„ GREELEY, COLO. r.fi May 6, 1970 Glenn K. Billings, Chairman Board of County Commissioners Weld County Courthouse Greeley, Colorado 80631 Gentlemen: Your question, "Does a petitioner who wishes to locate a sewage treat- ment facility in the County need permission of the Board of County Commissioners as to location for the establishment of such facility? " The answer is, yes. It is my opinion that a sewage treatment plant is considered to be an obnox- ious business and/or facility and the location of which should be seriously considered by the Board before permission is either granted or denied. Section 3. 3(2) of the Weld County Zoning Resolution, USES PERMITTED IN THE "A" AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT provides "I, , sewage treatment facilities . , . are subject to approval as to location by the Board of County Commissioners. " In view of the fact that this type of facility is specifically mentioned in the Weld County Zoning Resolution, it is my opinion that in every case where permission is requested of the Board of County Commissioners as to loca- tion for the establishment of such an operation as is here requested, namely a sewage treatment facility, I recommend that a public hearing be held; that thirty days notice be given by publication in a newspaper of general circulation in the County; and that all adjacent landowners be given personal notice by registered or certified mail. I trust that I have fully answered your inquiry. Ve y stir , Samuel S. Telep County Attorney SST:bp Cif >201.51.9,9°2° • i GLENN K. BILLINGS, ; h [^�� CHAIRMAN �-- • 4;42; \` ';rsX 4ir ti R7. 2, SOX 167, OREELEY, COLO. + l'GLD W. ANDERSON. C..AtRMAN PRO.TEM OFFICE OF • RT 1, JOHNSTOWN, COLD. BURMA LORENSON WELD COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY PLANNER N MARSHALL H. ANDERSON. PHONE 19031 953.2212 MEMBER �j q i� EXT. 27. 28 AND 29 mO 241: 8TH AVE.. GREELEY, COLO. •� 'L`�u Ti1r �LO1 4/24/70 • Ben Cruce City Complex Greeley, Colorado Dear Sir: Please verify the fol' owing legal description as the amended legal description submitted in the Application For Approval of L'-cation for Sewage Treatment FaciJ.i.ties dated 4/24/70 for the City of Greeley: That part of the SW.'- of Section 5 and the ' SEi of , ection 6, Township 5 North, Range 64 West of the 6th P. M.,, lying south of the Ogilvy Ditch and i;orth of the Platte River, above elevation 4600. Sincerely, el 2(n) Burman Lorenson • Planning Director BL/dh , • • e•'"") +~ I • • 44, ice 1%(Peelif t••.' °K7 `attealley Schools WELD COUNTY, DISTRICT RE-7 ELLIS JOHNSON, SUPERINTENDENT cc��//� PHONE 352-6168 La", &Laao 806.44 BOARD OF EDUCATION ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENTS: NEELAND B. SIEBRING, PRESIDENT JAKE HUWA, 7-12 HARRY ANDREWS, VICE PRESIDENT GLEN M. HANSON, K-6 REUBEN SITZMAN, SECRETARY HARVEY G. PEPPLER, TREASURER May, 27, 1970 JAMES SITZMAN, DIRECTOR To Whom It May Concerns From: Office of Superintendent of School District, Re-7, by authority of the Board of Education. Subjects Sewage Disposal East of Greeley Since this school district is immediately east of Greeley, automatically there is interest in the outcome of the various proposals as to lagoon sites, or sewage disposal plans. We would urge that serious consideration be given to dropping any plans that may be extant regarding establishment of a lagoon in this School District, such thinking on two counts. In the first place, the presence of the lagoon in our country side would not enhance the beauty nor the living conditions around the area. In the second place, all land used by this lagoon would go off the tax rolls. Should such a project be planned, consideration should be given to what the presence of a lagoon would mean to us. True, such a project would mean the same to anyone, but we feel that possibly it is not our respon— sibility to be required to contend with the unpleasantness involved with a lagoon. In the second place, it is well known that our District has a low val— uation per child educated. Any portion of land taken out of taxation would further decrease the value per child and add a greater tax burden to the remaining taxpayers. We do not favor one lagoon site over another. In fact, we feel that all lagoons are nuisances, unnecessary sources of odor, and are ugly spots in any country side. School District Re-7, being located just to the east of the most concentrated area of the county's population is interested in development of some type of sewage disposal which will not entail such an odor problem. This is the contention of School District Res?, which is vitally inter- ested, being located as it is. We favor none of the proposed sites for lagoons. We strongly urge proper authorities involved to abandon the lagoon as a method of sewage disposal, leave intact the beautiful country side east of Greeley, and adopt other methods for use in providing ways to dispose of increasing wastes due to rise in population figures in and around Greeley. Ellis JOhnson, Supt. WILLIAM M. SIMINGTON,Secretary-Trelsurer ALVIN H. TUCKER,President LOUIS FLOREZ, launes, Representative AMALGAMATED Butcher WORKMEN SUITE 306/CONTINENTAL TERRACE BUILDING OF NORTH AMERICA - LOCAL NO. 641 ' ' 2785 N. SPEER BLVD. • TELEPHONE 433-8265 AFFILIATED WITH AFL-CIO _"—"-` DENVER, COLORADO 80211 eio M•i 26, 1970 f f,-• 17 tOt ALL RIPWIUS OF MONFORT PACIINO 04*PANT WHO ARE WOUPORi OF LOCAL UNION 641 -- IN THE NEAR FUTURE, MAINS SODIUM AND SONS OF TR! INPARTNEWTAL STEWARDS WILL ES 1RIWIIIG A PIF ITION AROUND, ABRIID FOR TOUR SIONATURIA. AS IOU KNOW, MOWORT PACSINO COMPANY HAS SON RATING A °PRAT DRAL OF TRW= ONTTIVO AmOFAL ON A SITE FOR TIN SWAGS PLANT. INS CITY COUNCIL 144 PateNNTLI APPROVED A SIDI IN TIM 1[Xt31T AREA. THEM WILL 8T A PUNIC REARING ON JUNO 3 AT 3tOU P.M. REFUSE THE COUNTY cC!41CSaICNUS FOR TOXIN APPSONAL. IT TDB COUNTY CONICI 5TOR1'RS TAIL TO APRONS THIS SI!!, IT NAT CAUSE MONFORT Pall= COMPANY TO DISOONTINNI ITS PLANS TOR A SIMONS :AFT AT ICOR PLANT. THERSFORN, WI MID TOUR SIONATURIN ON ISIS PETITION, SO TWAT WI NAT SNOW THE COUNTY C01DtI9✓u ; ?NAT TRIM IS PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR TRW PMDPOav SITS IN BOW OF =row nano COMPANY. ME THINK THIS IS A MATTES CV MOST IMPOOTANGZ TO ALL 31OLO11ES OF IESORT AND TO TUX WORKING CL?IMS OF ONNOISl. WE Ylo@LB APPRICZATI5 TOUR SUPPORT AND COOIRRAnga IN TITO MA,tOt Fnnternellp re.M, LW; Me- Alvin S. testis William R. President S•srstafi?rssais"T 7 Plow elliterr Business lrposte alit/IAA opdu 5 s sfl„e}o lae t f 4" . * a : .+ ,.lv': tetew 00+"...° all rt # Aititrio i.. --Item;+.�t'W v^0 h, y N" �*"w„ s a yam . April 23° 1970 GREELEY CIVIC CENTER GREELEY. COLORADO 80631 of "14k U • 4 Board of County Commissioners and County Planning Commission coionP°o Weld County Court House Greeley, Colorado 80631 CITY COUNCIL Subject: APPLICATION OF APPROVAL OF LOCATION OF SEWAGE MAYOR TREATMENT FACILITIES - CITY OF GREELEY . DR. RICHARD A. PERCHLIK According to the rules of the State Health Department, the COUNCILMEN City of Greeley is requested to obtain the signatures of GEORGE HALL certain local governmental officials , which includes the GIL HAUSE County Planning Commission and the Board of County TOM RAPE Commissioners. The Commissioners have requested that I JAMES RUCKER submit this matter first to the County Planning Commission WAYNE SODMAN WAYNE WELLS for their recommendation. CITY MANAGER It would be appreciated if both county agencies can take B H CRUCE action on this matter in the next 10 days . CITY OF GREELEY ei B. H. CRUCE,.... . ....... CITY MANAGER BHC/mas cc: Burman Lorenson It 4,0 ,PP OLORADO STATE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH WATER POLLUTION CONTROL ' 'MISSION 4210 East 11th Avenue Denver, Colorado 80220 APPLICATION FOR APPROVAL OF LOCATION FOR SEWAGE TREATMENT FACILITIES Submit in duplicate. Complete only Parts A & B. See Instructions. Applicant: City of Greeley c/o B. H. Cruce, City Manager Address: Civic Center, Greeley, Colorado Telephone: 353-6123 A. INFORMATION REGARDING PROJECT SUBMITTED FOR REVIEW: 1 . Size and Type of Treatment facility: Anaerobic, aerated, aerobic lagoon system for meat packing wastes ; flow 3.0 mgd - BOD 30,000 lbs/day 2. Location of facility: Sections 5 and 6 T 5N R 64W. This site will also be utilized by the City of Greeley for a regional sewage treatment plant. 3. Location of effluent discharge: South Platte River approximately 3000 feet downstream from the confluence with the Cache La Poudre River. 4. Describe and give distance downstream of water plant raw water intake or intake nearest this effluent discharge: None to our knowledge. 5. Name of watercourse into which effluent is discharged: South Platte River. 6. Est. bid opening date: August 15 , 1970 Est. completion date: Jan. 1 , 1971 . 7. Est. project cost: _ $675,000 8. Project layout and design criteria: (Attach separate sheets or report showing entire service area with respect to surrounding areas , habitable buildings, location of potable water wells within 4 mile, effluent discharge point and topography of area. ) 9. Consulting Engineer Bell , Galyardt and Wells Address: 220 Hillcrest Bldg. , Ralston , Omaha , Nebr. Telephone: 331-0321 68127 The undersigned applicant agrees to supply information necessary for Review of Plans and Specifications and to secure signatures of the appropriate local government officials prior to submission. CITY OF GREELLY 4-24-70 Date Signature of Applicant B. H. Cruce, City Manager City of Greeley Type Name B. SIGNATURES OF LOCAL GOVERNPTT OFFICIALS: The undersigned*_have reviewed the . proposal for the location, ;ns facility, and CERTIrY APPROVAL nand o effluent ordischarge Dl5AiPf:OVAt. of the above-described sewage treatment in space provided below: . DATE APPROVAL DISAPPROVAL /----7 /---/ Signature for Local Health Department / / /� / Signature for Planning Commission • --- - / / / Signature for Board of County Commissioners �, f Y Manager r 7� --� Signature for Mayor or City Muniipality *Before plans and specifications will be . ccepted for review, gae pplicant tsmust ttshow hereon the action taken on the project by the Local Health tee ive . of the Planning Commission , representative th�tBma�htobeCaffectedunty n�bysthendischarge the Mayor or City Manager of the municipality of this waste. C. . THE FOLLOWING FOR STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT USE: I , the undersigned District Engineer, have the following cor,:nonts:' l . Is this plant located so that it can serve the needs of the present and/or future logical service area.___ ___— 2. Is the plant located where it is likely to create nuisance problems for existing or now planned development? �__ -- 3• Has a sufficient amount of suitable land b� een set aside for expansion? , 4. Has the developer or owner of the facility made provision kind r funding to buy, maintain, operate and repair replace _, Are there any community water supply intakes within 5 miles downstream of th e 5• _ effluent discharge points? -- _ _ ------•--- -- RECOMMENDATIONS: Date: _ Signature: ____-------___! — WPC-3(Rev. l0-66-20) . IMF • • • _ !--7 :x`%76 S9 79 zi Schedule No. Name Address 8975 Sitzman, John Rt. 4 Box 156 Grly % efe(5 8984 Rayburn, Cecil Rt. 4 Box 161, Grly 8983- Hoff, Conrad same as before 8976 Achziger, Charles Rt. 1 Box 163, Greeley `/.?"..1 T 8976 Achziger, Charles 8979 Heckendorf, R. F. P. 0. Box 154, Kersey " :%77-4/1. 8980 Plumb, Donald Same as above I /I;971` !(/‘/3 v- 6 I 1 7]C K 'it O9 „> B r 9�II A , /' 89Y-7 I , c'j j', ScheduleNo. Names Address (112,44,2 27 8985 Webster Feedlots 1601 Glenmere _Z-S2 -4 (R "1 8985-A Baker, Dallas, etal Rt. 4 Box 162 Greeley 41 ("% ; ruf: i 8988 Kirton R. A. & Anna 1803 - 7th Ave Grly `",f _ z e986 Hoff, •Conrad & Leta Rt. 4 Box 164, Grly A 27 n 7 8990 McConnel, Robt & Rt. 4 Box 165-A Grly 6 >7 c � 8990-A Weld County 8989 Plumb, D. F. 1809 Delwood Avenue _}��C j 8987 Hoff Conrad same as above 8987-A Frick W. J. Rt. 2 Ault it- _777 _ 8991-A Weld •County 8991 McConnel Same as above 8994 Walker, R. D. 611 Curtis, Brush `, j // 8993 Strausheim, Rudy & Gloria Rt. 4 Box 167 Grly 4ftV . 8992 Mitani Toyiko & Kuyeshi Bob Rt. 4 Box 166 Greeley —' �`�- -') 8992-A State of Colorado Game, Fish & Parks Commsn fff 1/5} 8991-B Kirton, Same as above I i C(276 Sniicr may% Y 7 I 7 ;....I j5) Schedule No. Names Address 8996 Plumb, Luella & Lr;cille Rt 4 Box.--201 Greeley ' ' r/7 716 ..E 8995 Plumb D. F. 1809 Delwood Grly j ,1/4,- l61'.3 89974- Value to 8999 8999' Same as 8997 8998 Dunn, Clarence Rt 2 Box 345 Greeley e:',9(7/7.5— ' I /Err r9 A jc c.12-7 8• Schedule No. Names Address 9009 Plumb, Don Delwood (same as before) =- ____` 9008 Jurgens George Rt. 4 Box 209B Greeley - 9004-B Smith, Duane & Jackie 2316 - 6th Avenue Greele /`i%0 / 9000 Heckendorf same as before 9004A Jurgens, Geo same as above 9004 Jurgens, George same as above Hello