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BEFORE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY, COLORADO
SHOW CAUSE ORDER
WASTE DISPOSAL SITE
PAUL MC CLURE
PRESENT:
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MARSHALL H. ANDERSON
GLEN K. BILLINGS
HAROLD W. ANDERSON
COUNTY ATTORNEY
SAMUEL S. TELEP
WELD COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT
DR. E. M. CLEAVER
GLEN PAUL, CHIEF SANITARIAN
MR. PAUL MC CLURE
MR. JACK BASS
Tape No. 75
DECEMBER 1, 1969
690 26 1
Pe;o//y
Mr. Anderson: We will call this meeting to order, it is a Show Cause
Order in the Matter of Mr. Paul McClure. Mr. Telep will you make the record.
Mr. Telep: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Let the record show that
this matter came on for a hearing on this day, December 1, 1969 at 10:30
A. M. Let the record further show that the particular causes in the matter
of the complaint namely, Paul E. McClure, and the hearing is being held
at this time for Mr. McClure to show cause for his permit to operate a
waste disposal site should not be revoked. In the matter of complaint
in regard to Paul E. McClure, whereas it has been made to appear to the
Board of County Commissioners of Weld County, State of Colorado, the
County Licensing Authority, that you have violated the law. That your
waste disposal site does not meet the minimum standards as set out by
provisions of the Solid Waste Disposal Sites and Facilities Act of 1967,
Permanent Cumulative Supplement to Colorado Revised Statues 1963, Chapter 36-
23-10 in the following respects:
(1) failure to properly cover waste materials
(2) failure to adequately fence the facility thereby permitting waste
material and debris to escape therefrom
(3) other violations contrary to the provisions of paragraphs (B)
(E), (F) and (G) of the hereinabove mentioned act.
Now therefor, you are hereby ordered to appear before the Board of
Weld County Commissioners, in the Weld County Court House, in Greeley, Colorado,
on the 1st day of December 1969 at the hour of 10:30 A. M. or as soon after
as you can be heard to show cause why your certificate of designation to
operate a waste disposal should not be suspended or revoked as by law provided.
Dated ibis 5th November, 1969.
Now, Mr. Chairman, I think it would be in order to proceed with the
testimony - having the particular witnesses identify themselves by name
and the position they occupy and the testimony to begin with I believe is —
the one to start with is the Health Department and then I think the respondent
Mr. McClure should have an opportunity to either defend himself or he should
also have the opportunity to cross examine each and every witness who testifies
as this hearing this morning.
(1)
Mr. Anderson: At this time we will hear from Mr. Glen Paul of the Weld
County Health Department.
Mr. Paul: Yes sir, I am Sanitarian for the Weld County Health Department
I have a group of pictures here taken at the dump site. They start with
October 8th. Would you like to pass these pictures around.
Mr. Telep: Would you like to identify these Mr. Paul?
Mr. Paul: Yes sir,
Mr. Telep: As exhibits A, B and C perhaps.
Mr. Paul: Well I have a bunch from 3 different months. I mean from
3 different times.
Mr. Telep: Do you want to enter them all - do you want to identify them
at the present time and then speak at length as to what each picture
conveys.
Mr. Paul: That would be fine.
Mr. Telep: Did you take these picture personally Mr. Paul?
Mr. Paul:
Mr. Telep:
I did.
How many are there in number?
Mr. Paul: I have not counted them, I don't know.
Mr. Telep: Would you like to enter them all?
Mr. Paul: Yes.
Attorney requests that all pictures be marked as exhibits
Mr. Telep: Alright, Mr. Paul, would you try to convey from your mini and
from your memory based on your personal observation and based on the pictures
that these photographs purport to convey to the Board, the appearance of this
dump.
Mr. Paul: I might say that everytime I have gone to the dump since
i started taking pictures - I have takeipictures everytime and not only
(2)
Mr. Paul: they do not meet the standards on coverage - we realize this
is or has supposedly been a small dump with 1500 square feet
and I .might say it covers more than 1500 square feet so it would not
qualify as a small dump. It would have to covered each night in which in
the times that I have visited I never did see where it was completely covered.
On the north side of the - we are talking about a fence on the north side
of the dump site I do have some pictures here - they are very faint -
but I think if you look very closely you can see papers that have blown:
over across the fence into the farm north of the dump. I think that is
about all I have to say Mr. Telep. Are there any questions?
Mr. Telept Mr. Chairman, or Board members do you have any questions?
You have not seen these pictures yet Mr. Chairman. Wae these pictures taken
all at one time or at various times?
Mr. Paul: Various times. I believe they start October, November --
Mr, Telep: Now the first three were they taken at the same time?
Mr. Paul: Yes.
Mr. Anderson: 10/8/69.
Mr, Telep: 10/8/69. How about the others, would you tell the Board
so - we are making a record here - when say this or that it doesn't show.
Mr. Paul: On October 22nd, at 1:15, this picture was taken. October
21st at 1:15 also this picture was taken; and here are some in September
- September 29th at 3:50 P. M. that is Number 4 I took that day. On
September 29th at 3:46 Number 3 that picture was taken. September 29th
at 3:42 Number 2 was taken;
Mr. Telep: Now thats alright - but Number 2 depicts what? In your
opinion what does that depict? A bunch of material there which seems not
to be covered?
Mr. Paul: This is trash that has not been covered.
Mr. Telep: Try to explain about each picture, would you please?
(3)
Mr. Paul: Alright
Mr. Telep: What exhibit is that on the back?
Mr. Paul: This is exhibit "Q"
Mr, Telep: "Q", What does it show?
Mr. Paul: "Q" is very dark and if you notice light spots - this is the
time of exposure there were papers blowing north of the dump- in the field
there is a fence row - it was right by the fence row. This is very dark
you can see only - now don't get the white spots, those are not the papers
in here are the papers.
Mr. Telep: Alright, how about the next one. Identify it by number
and when it was taken and what it proports to show.
Mr. Paul: Exhibit "N" 9/29/69 at 3:40 this shows also the dump - it
hasn't been covered. You will notice that we have found in two or three
of the pictures - it shows the same location there - and it never was
covered.
Exhibit "M" 9:24 in the morning, you will find also the
trash and I might state again this is in the lower part,it is taken from
the back - from the east side facing west. It does not comply with the law.
Exhibit "L" 9/24 at 9:51 a little further down the dump, same day and it
shows more of the dump the same day and it shows more of the dump more
than the 1500 square feet. Exhibit "K": 9/24/69 at 10:00 A. M. this is
also a fence rail with the papers blowing across - a little better than
the other picture.
Exhibit "G" 9/24/69 at 9:58 another picture or another
location of the same dump further west and no coverage.
Exhibit "I" 9/24/69 at 9:56 another picture of the dump
showing no coverage on further west in that exhibit.
Exhibit "H" 9/24/69 at 9:55 a polarid picture
back
This is taken/in the dump which is a pile that hasn't been covered.
Exhibit "G" 9/17 at 9:45 it was a very cloudy day
and you can still see the trash not covered.
Exhibit "L" 9/17 at 9:50 the dump still not covered
Exhibit "E" 9/17/69 at 9:45 a big view of the dump. I was
on the southwest part taking a picture northwestward. No coverage.
(4)
picttre
Exhibit "D" 9/17/ at 9:45 another/taken down in the dump
facing the northwest and still no coverage.
Mr. Anderson: Alright does anyone else have anything to say?
Mr. Bass do you have anything to say?
Mr. Bass: Well I can only second what Mr. Paul has said. Orginally
I petitioned the Commissioners to nc2t open the dump because it did not
abide by the law. We talked, I agreed to withdraw under the conditions
it
that/would be properly taken care of. It has never been properly taken
care of, as you have all witnessed from the pictures and what Mr. Paul
has said. I contend it should be shut down. If it is not within the
law for the other residents its not within the law for Eaton and a deal
between Paul and the City of Eaton.
Mr. Anderson: Do you live right next to it?
Mr. Bass: I live - I am vitally concerned because I live directly
south of the dump. It is within 1700 feet of my front door. Naturally
I have an interest in it, my wife and I. We have been aslenient as we
could possibly be, but nothing has been done. I see no reason why - an
unlawful dump should be run in that particular place. That is all I have
to say at the present.
Mr. Anderson: Does anyone else have anything to say?
Mr. Paul: Mr. Chairman I have one other thing to say, these pictures
were taken at a time when the dump was supposedly been locked and I think
he is violating the certification by not having the dump open to the public
when he applied for the certification that was in the application, that the
dump would be open to the public.
Mr. Anderson:
Mr. McClure:
Mr. Telep:
Paul, do you have anything to say?
Well ---
Mr. McClure you have a right to cross examine Mr. Paul, I
want you to know that and also Mr. Bass.
(5)
Mr. McClure: This dump was provided for the convenience of the area
orginally as the location. It certainly wasn't for the monetary receipts that
was realized from - the covering - I haven't seen pictures - I don't - I know
what the place looks like anyhow. The dates and the time - I noticed there
are probably 4 or 5 pictures that were taken on the 17th of September some 9 --
Mr. Telep: On the back Paul are the dates, you certainly have a
right to look at them and comment on them.
Mr. McClure: Just going on the number of them on the 24th and then
there is one, two, three, four pictures here on the 17th. I don't know what
day of the week those were - I might go back to the requirements as was
discussed when this place was started. That if the area that was opened,
the dump area, exceeded 1500 square feet per day then we covered each day.
If it did not exceed then we were to cover once a week or when it was
necessary. The dump was established or the area was established for the
people and it was our understanding that the people in the whole area up
there would go to this dump, which it would perhaps make enough income to
pay for the cost of having a man there to take care of it. Other areas
were left open for dumping in the whole area up there so consequently the
use of this dump wasn't financially- financial income from the use wasn't
there to provide - or to pay for the cost of covering this each day, however,
the area, the paper and the refuse - there is some heavy refuse on one end
that has all been worked at least once a week, since the first day of
September.
Mr. Paul stated that according to the permit - the
gate was locked. I informed him and the Commissioners that it would be
locked on the first day of September due to the fact that the cost was
excessive to me to provide an area for the public for the disposing of their
refuse. So the Town of Eaton had no place to dispose of theirs and they
leased the property on the first day of September and I told them that we
would do what we could to maintain the thing in a proper manner, there was
a fence on the north end that was removed, which I didn't realize was a
vital necessity. There are other dumps we can go get pictures of that will
show the same conditions that you have here from some of them the papers
are blowing considerable more than they are in these pictures on to other
people's property. I can say that Jack Bass has objected to the dump
(6)
which anyway is 1700 feet away from his place. We did attempt to take
care of the thing as I say on once or twice a week, Wednesday and Saturday.
Now the dates of these pictures whether they were on Thurdsay or in the
mornings, the City came out there generally in the morning generally for
dumping. They were 9:50 in the morning or 9:56 - at 9:50 and here is one
at 3:50 on a Wednesday or a Tuesday evening - I don't know the days of the
week but anyhow in the mornings the dumping process is going on there.
We couldn't have someone there to cover the thing and the Town of Eaton
couldn't afford it in the first place when each load comes in, however
as I have stated - once a week and generally twice a week dirt has been
spread - or material has been spread down into the hole and dirt has
been hauled and put on it - on the surface.
To start with as I have said, this place, the area was
provided without any idea of making money from it. As far as I was
concerned I was providing it as a manner of convenience and more a less
a necessity of the people in that area - the Town of Eaton had requested
and I offered it to them. Orginally the whole thing was brought up by the
County Commissioners and the Health Department. It was all agreed that
certain things would be done there by the County. The fence was removed
which was, the Town of Eaton says they will cooperate and put a fence
back on the North boundary, if the place is allowed to continue.
For me had I known the area was not was going to be - that
is the whole area up there was not going to haul materials into there
and I knew if other places were left open for dumping then there would not
be enough money to come in to pay for the cost of keeping aman there all
day every day. There is no other dump in the area that is open every day
all day, except this one in Greeley. As I stated before, in September
the place was leased to the Town of Eaton for their sole, for only their
use and that is the reason the place was locked and the Commissioners
and the Health Department were all advised of that at that time.
Mr. Anderson:
Does anyone else have anything else to add? Mr. McClure
you know we are having problems with these dumps all over. It isn't just
Weld County, it is a national -- -
Mr. McClure: Yes sir, its a bad proposition.
(7)
Mr. McClure: I started taking care of sanitary fills in 1946 and I know
what they are. It was my responsibility at that time to take care of
that dump at Camp Carson, So I think I know just about everything about it.
It is a problem if you go to the City of Denver, if you want to take any
pictures to make any comparisons - thats a pretty clean area up there.
You go out east of Ault to the place where the County has that one, take
some pictures off to the south side, across the road and south from the
dump area at Ault.
Mr. Anderson:
Mr. McClure:
Mr. Anderson:
We are dealing here with an unknown factor -
Thats right.
Its about the same as a sewer system but there is one thing
about it a sewer you can put in a pipe, but when people go to hauling they
will scatter refuse.
Mr. McClure: That is one of the reasons that the gate was locked, because
you could not lead each person that comes in there around and show him where
to dump and that is one of the conditions that you run into. The City of
Eaton,they have not been educated yet as to the way you dump in a dump.
If it is allowed to continue why perhaps they will learn that they - it
takesra long time for anyone to learn how to operate this and that is one
thing where personnel enters into it.- you can not just pick up anyone
and expect a facility such as this to operate right down according to the
law and somebody driving by say , " boy thats a fine place". You can
spend more money on it than any municipality can afford to put out for
it if you go right down and hold onto the point of the law. But with
this law that is established there is not a dump in the state that meets
the requirements of it.
Mr. Anderson: Are there any more questions?
Mr. Billings: No, my concern for this basically was that when we set up
the agreement and I thought it would work, that it would be an asset
to the whole area up there. There is no question that we need something in
and Pierce.
that area to take care of the Towns of Eaton and Ault/ But when it is just
open for the Town of Eaton and does not serve the whole area - it does
not serve the purpose, to fullfill the law as we are required to fullfill
(8)
Mr. Billings: and I made numerous inspections of the dump at different times
on the requests of the Health Department and for my own satisfaction and for
my own personal agreement that I had with Mr. Bass and with his family, for
the way it would be maintained. Actually other than when it was first
operated, I never found it was maintained any where near the standards that
it should be. I still feel, I know that it is an inconvenience to have it
there as far as the Bass' are concerned, but I felt that when I set it up
it was an ideal location and to reclaim the land if they were operating
properly and served the whole area.
Basically, I guess, this has not been the situation
and it isn't serving the whole area. Probably one thing that Mr. McClure
didn't realize and I am sure that I explained it to him that after the first,
the first of the year - January 1, 1970 - there would be an increase in the
amount of trash that would be hauled in there - it would probably double or
more. Now he didn't supply any statement at one certain time that he was
losing money on it. There was a considerable amount at the time of starting
the operation. I don't think any operation makes a profit the first month
or the first few months. I was informed by the Health Department, that it
was not meeting the specifications that they required of the area and I
did notify the Town of Eaton and Mr. McClure that it would have to be closed
and the County did set up signs just inside of the gate notifying anybody
that there would be a $50.00 fine for anybody dumping in the area. The
signs have been ignored. Basically that is all I have, I still feel that
if it had been operating properly it would have been an asset to the whole
area and also to Mr. McClure.
Mr. Anderson: Well, Glen, you are the ramrod of this whole deal,
what do you think we should do with it? If Paul can't comply and there is not
money there why
is
Mr. Paul: My recommendation/if he can't comply and he has closed
the gates there is nothing to do but to revoke his certification and let the
City of Eaton find a dump, Paul, - I mean it is the only thing. He can't
make any money with this and so the recommendation I would say
Mr. Anderson: Its putting Paul in a bind to have to operate at
a loss - I think he has tried to help these fellows along.
(9)
Mr. Paul: Right, I realize,Mr. McClure,he went along with us
I know when I went down to get himmto get the certificate, Paul wasn't
sure that even at that time that he wanted the dump there. But these
circumstances and it didn't work out and still we don't have any alternative
- I am not sure but does Paul want to operate a dump? Does he want to
continue with this dump?
Mr. Anderson: Well that is what I was going to ask him. What do
you think Paul? Do you want ----
Mr. McClure: Well I wouldn't operate it for the public because
there are to many different areas where people can go dump there and there
is not sufficient money - alright you talk about operating at a profit
or making money - you say in the first place the place is open because
if they will perhaps - the operation has the income from the use would pay
the cost of the operation - no profit - I didn't expect any profit in the
first place. I think I told you fellows that.
Mr. Anderson: Yes I know you did.
Mr. McClure: There was no way to operate it at a profit.
Mr. Anderson: There is no enough volume.
Mr. McClure: Thats right. But if there are other places that the
people in the area - the Town of Ault and the Town of Pierce can go and dump
that costs them nothing, then they will go and dump there. Those are the
conditions that exist all the way through from the time we started this
dump until it was closed.
Mr. Anderson: Do you feel that we are too far south with it?
Do you think it ought to be up north farther so we can combine one dump
into ----
Mr. McClure: Well, no you've got - the population that this area
will serve - it was close to the center of the population.
Mr. Anderson: Well yes but if we went north - say north of Highway 14
- if we had a place in there, for Nunn, Pierce and Ault and Eaton. Whets
another five miles once you get that stuff loaded. Do you think that would
work if we went farther north and combined all three or four of them in to one.
(10)
Mr. McClure:
Mr. Anderson:
for every town.
No, you are hauling a bigger volumn> a farther distance.
But what I am getting at - you know we can't run a dump
Mr. McClure: No sir, but you have to serve the area. It has to be
set out in areas. The volumne has to be considered in the first place.
Mr. Anderson: The thing is we can't get too many of those things
or we are lost.
Mr. McClure: Absolutely not.
Mr. Anderson:
If you had all four of those dumps put in ore bunch
it still wou;dn't be a very big deal.
Mr. McClure: Well - no. No as I felt in the first place, I didn't
know if I wanted the thing there but the people in the area needed something.
That is why I offered it. There has been a dump along in that area and there
was a dump on the Bass' place, there was for years. It was right by our plant
and we had conditions existing there definitely - it was one of the things that
had to be - people had to have a place to dispose of their refuse.
Mr. Bass:
Mr. McClure:
Mr. Bass:
Mr. Anderson:
I coreect you, it was on Blandin's place.
Well its on the place you have, lets put it that way.
When did I close it?
We've got a problem here, county -wide, Paul. You have
been in this thing and you have helped us.
Mr. McClure: I think the City of Eaton has a right to ask for some
consideration if they want tgEontinue to dump there.
Mr. Anderson: But you know you go to figuring the mileage and the time
involved as far as the Town of Eaton is concerned it wouldn't take them 15
minutes longer to run down to the Greeley dump that it would to go out there.
Mr. Billings:
is going to contract with their trash hauler. Eventually they would have
switched over at the first of the year hauling to your area. The odd situation
about it is they are charging less to haul trash for the people in the Town
than
of Ault on a contract basis the City of Eaton is charging the people
in the City of Eaton to haul their trash. It doesn't add up when the people
in the Town of Ault can haul clear down here to the Greeley Dump and are
hauling for less that the City of Eaton is charging for hauling to your place.
So this kind of indicates a few more miles isn't a big problem as far as the
trash haulers are concerned. There is a need for one in that area and when
one can be established in that area that can comply with the laws so that I
don't have Glen Paul down my neck all the time why I will find a place and
I will establish one. I know the need is there it is there for Eaton, Ault
Pierce and for all the farmers. If there weren't any farmers in the area
there wouldn't be any need for Ault or Eaton or Pierce, there is no question
about that. By closing the gates to farmers why we end up with a situation
like we encountered at Ault. We have had to spend between 2 and 3 thousand
dollars of county money, we have pictures here to substantiate it. What we
did there was to dig a trench there some 18 feet deep and 25 foot wide and
over 350 feet in length to put all that junk into and covered it up. I know
its
the need is there/just getting something operating that will comply with
the health standards. There are some objections to the one operating here
in Greeley, but I noticed the other day according to a statement of the
State Health Department that they are 97% within compliance with the law.
One of the things that concerns me is the Town of Ault
Mr. Paul: Ninety-two percent.
Mr. Billings: I don't think we can expect anymore than that from
anybody at this early stage of the game. But you do have to comply with
the law so you can stay within the laws of the State Health Department.
The County Health Department, Glen is doing his job, I am trying to put
one out there because the need is there and he is trying to regulate
according to the law. How we can get around the situation so we that
we have one that is in the area and is operating according to law, I don't
know.
(12)
Mr. Harold Anderson: One question, now without a doubt, there is a dump
needed in that area. Mr. McClure made a statement that dumping in other
places and not dumping in this established dump. Now where are these other
places?
Mr. Glen Paul: There is one out on Highway Number 14 out east of
Ault.
Mr. Harold Anderson: Thats not a registered dump.
Mr. Paul: Yes sir that is one of the registered dumps. Then
the one here in Greeley and one over at Windsor. It is like Mr. Billings
stated the contractor is hauling trash from Ault into Greeley. It might
be that the City of Greeley might have to be hauling there - about 12 or
15 miles too. There have been so many complaints on the dump we have now.
I might answer Mr. McClure's question, when they mention about the 5 or 6
pictures on the same date. The reason for those 5 or 6 is to show that
its all not in one pile, Paul, its scattered; more than the 1500 square
feet. I can't - it looks like we might be having to haul to Johnstown
oT Windsor. I mean we keep getting complaints from the dump the way it
is now. The way Mr. Billings talked, he stated and its a fact the State
Engineer was up and made a survey and gave them a 92 rating. But at that
time he wasn't in water. It is definitely against the law to be in water.
We were down there this morning and we have some people who are making more
inspections out there - we had better make them into sanitarians - because
they are making more inspections than I am - which i don't have time to make
all these inspections.
I'll admit with Mr. McClure there are dumps that are
in bad condition. He mentioned about the one at Ault being scattered. Well
open
that dump it is only/one day a week. I sent out 9 letters. We picked up
evidence of people dumping on the outside. We sent 9 letters out giving
those people 24 hours to pick it up and they did. They went out and picked
it up. But still it scattered, when you have a dump that is only manned
once a 'Meek you are going to have it. Its a problem fellows and I think
we all realize it. I wish someone would come up with a solution I don't
have it.
Mr. Anderson; Well it is a national problem, there isn't a state
a county or a city - they are fighting it in New York City and all over.
(13)
Mr. Paul: Right.
Mr. Billings: We have to have one in that area - to serve that whole
area - Ault, Eaton, Pierce and the towns that is open at least 5 days a week
or 6 days a week. This has to be:done in that area. Well there is too
much population in that one area not to have it open.
Mr. Harold Anderson: Mr. Chairman, I feel like the necessity of a dump
in that area, therefore I would like to move that we take this under
advisement.
Mr. Billings:
Mr. Telep:
I'll second the motion.
Mr. Chairman, with your permission before you take
the vote I would like to say a few words. Mr. Chairman it is my observation
that we can go out and talk in generalities but the fact of the matter
remains that this certificateof designation - we are here tocbcide what
to do with the certificate. It is a certificate of designation that was
specifically granted to a one, Paul E. McClure, now the question arises
Mr. McClure stated that he has entered into a lease with the Town of Eaton
alright. The certificate of designation is still his, it hasn't been
brught out whether he delegated any and all obligations that he might
of had to the Town of Eaton. Now my question is, the Town of Eaton is
using this and no one else: Does the Town of Eaton have the necessary
facilities to comply with a sanitary disposal site, Mr. McClure? Do they
have the necessary equipment and are they using it?
Mr. McClure: The agreement they made with us is that we would
cover the materials that they dumped but they were to place these materials
in those locations so designated that the area would not exceed that -that
is required by the limits of the State Health Department. The duty to
get the stuff covered was my responsibility.
Mr. Teleps Well do you have the necessary equipment to cover
this thing as is required by the Health Standards and by the Law. You
have heard Mr. Paul say that in his opinion it wasn't being done.
Mr. McClure: It is required that - I will have to go back and
find the requirement according to the law. We have dirt available and
we have equipment there. Its covered now I believe.
(14)
Mr. Telep: The next thing I would like to ask, it is otvious to me
at least and the Health Department is trying to establish - it hasn't been
established yet until the Board decideds it - we are trying to establish
that this dump is certainly has not been in compliance with the health
standards and pictures were introduced into the evidence to show that
it has not been so. Now the next question that would come to my mind
if as in your opinion the dump can not meet the requirments that perhaps
in your opinion are maybe in your opinion are to rigid but nevertheless
something has to be done to bring this dump into what we call substantial
compliance, maybe not 100 percent, because you heard that Greeley is up
pretty good and it is at 92%. Substantial compliance so that the
sanitarian and the Health Department wouldn't be on their backs - The
Board of County Commissioners. Now the question will also arise and
perhaps maybe you should entertain it - would you be willing in the
interest of reclaiming this land' I am sure you would be interested
in that - to the leasing of this land to get the job done, fo meet the
standards. In your opinion you think you meet the standards. Now in
your opinion you think you meet the standards, the Health Department
says that you do not. We have a controversy here and this meeting is
principally a friendly type meeting and it pricipally being held to
decide — the Board can do one of two things: it could suspend the license,
because you have the license. The Town of Eaton doesn't have anything in
my opinion. They don't stand any bigger than they stand in your shoes.
And you are allowing this to happen if this is established at this meeting
here.
So they could suspend your license or revoke it, if they
suspend it they could put you on probation. They can give you thirty or
sixty days for you to come in to what we call substantial compliance and
this is about the size of it. If you want to talk to the Board to try
to sway them, by your eloquence or how forceful you are - this is the
place to do it paul. They are faced with a problem and you have probably
heard about the fact that they are trying to establish "X" number of
dumps and we have an "X" number of dumps that have been certified and it
has come again and this is common knowledge that not any, perhaps of
these dumps are in compliance with - maybe the standards are too rigid
I don't know this is what we are talking about. If you have anything
further to say to the Board you should do it here.
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Mr. McClure: Well I don't have anything more to say other than
this facility was provided for the people in the area, and theTown of
Eaton, I believe, is going to be interested in it - it is a populace
section I know because I have been there. What the cost is that they
are charging I don't know. What they are charging in Ault as Mr. Billings
pointed out - if they are hauling trash out of Ault for less than they
are hauling at Eaton I couldn't tell. I think it costs $1.50 a month
out of Eaton to get the trash hauled whenever it is necessary.
The facility is available if the Town of Eaton wishes
to qo on and participate in whatever the State requires as to installation
before there was a fence there and it was taken down. It didn't
even enter my mind that the fence was down but we have a fence there and
it can be put up on the north end of the thing. An excavation has been
made on the adjacent for the dirt to be available. If the health department
makes it necessary and the County Commissioners feel it is best to be open
so many hours everyday for anyone who comes in there, then I can not operate
a dump. If the Town of Eaton figures or appeals to the County Commissioners
to let them operate the thing which they can, if they are educated along
that line, to be a facility for 1300 or 1500 person who are up there
in that vacinity.
Mr. Paul: Mr. Chairman, it would be rlther akward for us to
work with two concerns, I mean, I would - I don't see how we can work
with Mr. McClure having the certification and the Town of Eaton dumping
there. Who should I go to when there is a violation.
Mr. McClure: Well it would be my responsibility to see that they
cover things.
Mr. Anderson: Paul I think for the good of the cause that we had
better take this thing under advisement and fall back and regroup and see
what we can do on the thing.
Mr. Bass: May I say one more thing - I have to disagree with Paul -
I have to - I live there. The day it snowed it broke every limb in the country
you closed it two days later or whenever it was I couldn't even take my limbs
over there. There hasn't been one spoonfull of dam dirt put on it. Not until
Saturday. I will swear to it - I will get the other boys down here too, if
you want to supeona them and get them here.
(16)
Mr. Anderson: Jack we have got this problem county -wide and we have
been working on it for three years. We've got another group fighting us
and we hope we can work this thing out. It is my thinking if we can get
one dump in the area closer north - what is five or six miles once you
get the stuff loaded.
Mr. Bass: It isn't economically feasibile to move the dirt on
a truck and haul it up and push it over that stuff to maintain a dump, well
that is the only situation they have got up there. Yes, there is a big hole
but you have got to cover the hole.
Mr. Anderson: Well I think we have the wrong misconception of a dump
in my own mind the best place for a dump is out on level ground -
Mr. Paul: Mr. Chairman, I have one other thing. You know I
mentioned about the city - the one in the Greeley area might be moved because
of the water. The dump up there is the same situation - it is ground water
level up there. We might have to move this one if we do we might as well
Mr. Billings: There isn't anything definite yet but I have another
location up there - that has been proposed to me. It is an area where they
will remove the dirt and have it covered it is just a matter of finding out
if they have the equipment to do this or whether Landfill - I think that
probably Landfill is doing like the State said at least 92% efficiency on
the Greeley dump. I am wondering if Landfill istbig enough outfit to
operate the Greeley dump and these other dumps in the county aleo. I don't
think so - I have had meetings with Mrs. Guerro to this but still it ties
in. I have had meetings with both the Hereford and Grover area and they
have said they would work with a mutual place out there where they could
have a dump. If it has to go to contract with Landfill and then her recontracts
with them - if some of the farmers in the area will supply the equipment
to keep it covered so they will comply - this is a possibility I have on
this other location. It is actually further north than Paul's and it is
a ravine in the middle of a farm. It is owned by this person who seems
to think he could have it open 6 days a week and maintain it himself.
It may have to be a sub contract with Landfill, I don't know. I am checking
into this at this time. May I say again a dump in that area has to be
available for all the people - I know the Town of Eaton has a problem
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and I know the others do too. Still again we have to supply a place for
these farmers too, they are going to come under the same rules as the
people in town. They are going to have to have some place to haul this
trash and tree limbs of theirs. We can't just confine it to the towns.
Mr. Paul: I think that Eaton has never taken care of any of
their dumps even years ago before they had the law. They were scattered
all over and moved all over the place and we mention about Pierce and Ault
they are paying this farm out there $100 a year to dump on this property.
I don't know but it seems like Eaton better wake up to the fact that they
are going to have to have some responsibility for the trash up there.
Mr. Billings:
to have to say that
Mr. Paul:
This is part of the situation up there. I am sorry
Right.
Mr. Billings= But in my dealing with the members of the Town Board
in Eaton - they are split on this. There are a number of them on the Town
Board that think that Eaton definitely has to take a hand in the thing.
I was approached by a person before I was elected for office if I promised
to do this, and this and this - this is kind of a bdd way to start out -
I do feel that Eaton is trying to get someone to do something for nothing.
I shouldn't say the Town of Eaton - its just the feeling of the people in
the Town of Eaton. I have talked to quite a number of them, two or three
of them on the Town Board. I know the need is there and it: needs to be
operated at least 5 days a week or 6 days a week. Whether its Paul's
location or another one - the need is there but it has to be for everybody.
Mr. Paul: Well I am not trying to kick the Town of Eaton I am
just giving you the facts. Ed Dunbar, you know he took care of the 2 dumps
for them. He covered them all the time, the ex -Commissioner, I mean they
have gone along so easy - Eaton better get on the ball and get some kind
of a program.
Mr. Billings: This area I felt - when I came in as Commissioner
I should know what the law was as far as far as County taxes to operate
dumps and so forth. I have an opinion from the Attorney General which
says the only way we can use Highway Users Tax, which is the Road and Bridge
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Funds is to maintain roads in and out of these landfills. I am sure that
everybody has agreed that it should be operated on private enterprise and
went to a
we did set up a separate fund that / mill levy and asked the people of
Weld County to vote the mill levy through to operate a sanitary landfill -
I doubt if it would ever
to the limit now as far as I am
have a half way chance of passing they are taxed
concerned. The route to go is private
enterprise if we can get them operating to meet the requirements of the
Health Department.
Mr. Anderson:
Mr. Billings:
advisement.
Mr. Anderson:
Is there anything more to come before this hearing?
I will second Harold's motion to take this under
We would like to talk to the Health Department, Paul
and see what we can work out. Jack we will try to take care of the blowing
situation. We have got the problem all over the county it just isn't at Eaton ita at
Keenesburg, Frederick, Firestone. We have bean working on this thing for
two or three years now. We are getting closer but it takes time.
we have had our problem with this Greeley dump. It looks like it
getting off the ground and of course we have some people saying it
I mean
is king of
isn't
running right. That is another argument but we will let you know Paul
in the next week to ten days. In the meantime we will see what we can
work out. Meeting adjourned.
Tape No. 75
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Deputy County Clerk
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