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Home My WebLink About690188.tiffWELD COUNTY, COLORADO OFFICE OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WELD COUNTY COURT HOUSE GREELEY, COLORADO STATE OF COLORADO) ) ss. COUNTY OF WELD ) IN THE MATTER OF THE LICENSE OF SANITATION ENGINEERING CORP. DESIGNATION CERTIFICATE OF LICENSE #11 SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL SITE FINDINGS AND ORDER After investigation and pursuant to Order and Notice heretofore issued and served on March 26 , 1969, to show cause why the above -numbered Certificate of License should not be suspended or revoked, public hearing was duly held in the office of the Board of County Commissioners of Weld County, sitting as the Weld County licensing authority, at 10:30 A. M. on Monday, the 14th day of April, 1969, and the Board of County Commissioners of Weld County, sitting as the Weld County licensing authority, having heard the testimony and evidence adduced upon said hearing and having considered the testimony and evidence filed with said Board, and having carefully weighed the same, now makes the following findings: That the above -named licensee did violate the provisions of the Solid Waste Disposal Sites and Facilities Act, 1967, Permanent Cumulative Supplement to '63 CRS 36-23-10 in the following particulars, to -wit: 1. By failing to properly cover waste material; 2. By failing to adequately fence the facility, thereby permitting waste materials and debris to escape therefrom; and 3. By other violations in the conduct of operation of said disposal facility contrary to the provisions of Paragraphs (b), (e), (f), and (g) of the hereinabove mentioned act. THE BOARD FURTHER FINDS that said licensee was found to have violated the provisions of said statute on October 28, W8, and ORDER OF SUSPENSION entered with six months probationary period g ted; and that licensee did violate the provisions of the terms of said ORDER of the Board of October 28, 1968. NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of the foregoing, and pursuant to authority of law, the Board of County Commissioners of Weld County, as the Weld County licensing authority, hereby Orders that the above -numbered Certificate of License of Designation for Waste Disposal Site be and the same hereby is revoked upon each of the grounds set forth in the Board's findings therein; tat said Certi- ficate of License #11 be returned for cancellation; and that said licensee shall have 30 days from date hereof to cover with dirt the dump or dump sites operated by it to the complete satisfaction of the Board. Ordered and signed this 23rdday of April, 1969. ATTEST: 0 Clerk of thWBoard RD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OUj1 Y, COLS ;sa!O APPROVED AS TO F RM: ca22s Aj j/5 _,c.�.C;aT PL0631 690188 CHANGE OF ZONE HEARING John Neuhauser - dba Sanitation Engineering Corp. April 14, 1969 Present: The Board of County Commissioners Marshall H. Anderson Glenn K. Billings Harold W. Anderson County Attorney Samuel S. Telep Weld County Health Department Glenn Paul, Director Enviormental Health Service Sanitation Engineering Corporation Carl Smith, Owner Mr. Jerry Russell, Attorney Representing Sanitation Engineering Corporation Mr. John Neuhauser (Not present - out of state) Landowners in Area Mr. George Russell, farmer in adjoining area Mrs. Broncucci, representing Mountain Dragways Marshall Anderson: We will call this meeting to order, at this time we will call on Mr. Telep, County Attorney, to make a record. Mr. Telep: Thank you Mr. Chairman, Let the record show that this cause came on for hearing this day, pursuant to a notice of the hearing that was supposed to have been had on March 24, 1969, at the hour of 10:30 A. M. At that time it was noted that the respondent Sanitary Engineering Corporation represented at the time by Mr. Carl Smith was not ready to proceed with the hearing due to the fact that counsel for the respondent was not able to attend, namely Mr. Russell. So consequently the hearing was posponed to this date. We would like the record to further show that it was agreeable that this hearing be postponed to this date by Mr. Carl Smith personally. I would like the record to further show that this hearing is being had because of the alleged failure to properly run this waste disposal site in that the respondant failed to cover the waste material and that the respondant failed to adequately fence the facility and permitting this waste material to escape and for other violations namely paragraph "S", "E", "F", and "G" of the Solid Waste and Disposal Sites Act of 1967 and especially the Permanent Cumulative Supplement there, denoted by Colorado Revised Statutes of 1963 - 36-23-10. Mr. Chariman, I would like the record to further show that the respondant is here this morning represented by Mr. Carl Smith , who in turn is represented by counsel, Mr. Jerry Russell. I believe Mr. Chairman we are ready to continue the hearing. I think Mr. Chairman in view of the fact that Mr. Smith here represents the respondant, I think it is only fitting and proper that the Board hear the complaints involved here. I believe that we should hear them first and make a record of what these acts consisted of and what the situation complaint is about. Mr. Paul is here and he should be invited to state his name. 2 Mr. Paul: I am, Glen Paul, Director of Enviormental Heath Service for the Weld County Health Department. We have pictures here to state and show that the sanitary landfill belonged by the Sanitary Engineers Corporation out of Broomfield , I believe, that they are violating the act of the solid waste bill by not fencing the dump site. I will call it dump site - it is sanitary landfill site and also covering as the law states. I have pictures to show that the - we have never been down and found a dump covered and also I have pictures of the papers scattered to weeks ago , I believe it was, it was a windy day, I might state, and the papers scattered all over the farm. I think that is about all I have to say. Mr. Telep: Mr. Paul: the date there was - Mr. Telep Mr. Paul: Mr. Telep: Mr. Paul: Mr. Telep: Mr. Paul: Mr. Telep: Mr. Paul: May we see those pictures? Those pictures are from November through well Would you say there are 19 pictures here? I have not counted them. The dates are on these pictures? Right. Who took these pictures, Mr. Paul? I took most of the pictures. Which ones did you take? I took them all except two. Mr. Telep: Let the record show that Mr. Glen Paul wants to introduce - you want to introduce these into evidence don't you? Mr. Paul: Right. Mr. Telep: Nineteen pictures and stating that he has taken all of these pictures personally except two which we shall mark as "X" and "Y". These you did not take is that correct? Mr. Paul: Correct. Mr. Telep: Now, Mr. Paul, do these pictures fairly represent what you actually saw at the site? Mr. Paul: It is. 3 Mr. Telep: 'Ix" Mr. Paul: and Mr. Telep: you saw? Mr. Paul: Mr. Telep: °Y'o Who took these other pictures? The pictures marked which you did not take? Mr. Bail Bagley my Air Pollution Control Officer. Would you also say they depict quite clearly what Yes I do. Well Mr. Paul, have you been down to this location on more than one occasion? Mr. Paul: I would say I average at least two times a month for the last four months. Mr. Telep: Each time you were down there, did you notice any activity any working, anyone covering up debris? Mr. Paul: Yes, now this was at the time - I don't know the date - this last fall when the County Commissioners was with me and they were there covering it. It was about October or November. Mr. Telep: When was the last time you were down? Mr. Paul: On April the 7th. Mr. Telep: 1969? Mr. Paul: 1969. Mr. Telep: What did you find there then? Mr. Paul: I found no fence, no one covering and the wind blowing the papers. Mr. Telep: Was there anybody on location at all? Mr. Paul: No sir. Mr. Telep: From the Sanitary Engineering Corporation? Mr. Paul: No sir - no one. Mr. Telep: Did you observe anyone dumping anything there while you were at the location. Mr. Paul: Not this last time - oh I would say about a month ago I say two trucks in there. Mr. Telep: This would be when about sometime in March of 1969? 4' Mr. Paul: March. Mr. Telep: How long did you remain at this site during the time you were there in March? Mr. Paul: Long enough to talk with two of the drivers of the truck and also go down to - well I would say at least 30 minutes. Mr. Telep: Who are these truck drivers/ Mr. Paul: I didn't ask their names. Mr. Telep: Who were they dumping for? Mr. Paul: They were dumping for - well they stated - I didn't see a name on the truck - but they stated they were out of Layfayette at that time. That is when I found out Mr. Neuhauser had left the area had left the company. I talked to one of the drivers and he told me about Carl Smith being the president of the corporation. Mr. Telep: Did you at any time when you learned that Carl Smith was left here, you might say, did you contact Mr. Smith? Mr. Paul: Yes, I contacted Mr. Smith by telephone. Mr. Telep: What was the ocassion of your contact? Why did you call him? Mr. Paul: Because I was kind of disturbed over Mr. Neuhauser, I had been working with Mr. Neuhauser on this problem and we had no record of Mr. Neuhauser leaving the company or the county. I don't know if he left the county but that is the statement given to me. Mr. Telep: Mr. Paul, how long have you been a sanitarian in Weld County? Mr. Paul: Since 1946. Mr. Telep: You investigate quite a few sanitary dumps? Mr. Paul: I try to visit the sanitary dumps at least once a month. Mr. Telep: In your opinion, based on what you saw, what you know about sanitation problems and under this law would you say that this dump site was run the way it was intended to? Mr. Paul: No. It is not run the way it was intended to. 5 Mr. Paul: Now wait - you say intended to - intended by whom? Mr. Telep: The coverage and Mr. Paul: No, no it is not run the way the law states it should be. Mr. Telep: Well tell the Commissioners.: what coverage should be had at this particular dump site. Mr. Paui: There should be at least two inches of dirt every square night if the dump is over 15,000 square feet. If it is under 15,000/feet it should be covered one time a week. But when they leave or when they finish it should be covered with at least 2 feet of earth, ac they progress along. Mr. Telep: Has this been done? Mr. Paul: No sir. Mr. Telep: You are talking about square footage in area - what would you say the square footage of this particular dump ; in order that it should be covered everyday. Mr. Paul: Mr. Telep: Mr. Paul: ravine in there. Mr. Telep: Oh at one time, you mean as of last week, We are talking about this particular dump. It would be over 15,000 square feet - they have But it is of sufficient size and there is sufficient dumping that would certainly warrant this type of coverage every night is that correct? Mr. Paul: Yes. Mr. Telep: Is it true that some of these dump hills are not covered every night? Some. Mr. Paul: Yes. Mr. Russell: Mr. Paul, these pictures that you took just a week ago today - these are intended to show what? The blowing paper. Mr. Paul: Right. Mr. Russell: Now as I recall last Monday it was a terribly terribly windy day. Did you take any pictures of any of the other dumps in the county on that day? 6 Mr. Paul: No I didn't. Mr. Russell: Just this one dump. Were you not on that day making a tour of dumps in the county? Mr. Paul: Just this particular dump. Mr. Russell: Now if this dump had a fence it wouldn't prevent this from blowing on a real hard windy day. As a matter of fact I recall that on that day the wind was blowing up to 70 to 90 miles an hour over in Boulder, wasn't it? Mr. Paul: I don't know, I wasn't in Boulder. I was there but I wouldn't say 70 miles an,hour, no sir. Mr. Russell: How hard would you say the wind was blowing? Mr. Paul: Twenty to thirty miles an hour. Mr. Russell: What time did you take these pictures? Mr. Paul: About 1:30 or 2:00 o'clock. Mr. Russell: Do you think it was blowing at the most thirty miles an hour? Mr. Paul: Well - I would say that but I am no wind gauge. Mr. Russell: You didn't measure it? Mr. Paul: No I did not. Mr. Russell: The wind was blowing pretty hard though? Mr. Paul: Yes it was. Mr. Russell: Now, you say you have looked at this dump frequently how many times have you .looked at this dump,'in the last month? Mr. Paul: Three times. Mr. Russell: Alright that would have been on the 7th and this hearing was scheduled for - orginally scheduled for the 24th of March, right? Did you see it shortly before the 24th of March? Mr. Paul: I saw it - is that when the snow storm - I went down about the time it was storming. I did not record this against you because with the state law states that/this kind of weather there is no way you could get in an cover with that snow. Mr. Russell: You said three times, once when it was snowing, there are some pictures in February. Mr. Paul: Yes, I don't take pictures everytime I go to the dump. 7 Mr. Russell: Do you just take pictures of it when it looks bad or do you take pictures of it when it looks good? Mr. Paul: No - the last time as it was stated in March - I didn't take a picture because of the snow and the other times when I drove by there I don't carry the camera around with me everytime. Mr. Russell: Have you ever - I think you said you never found the dump in good shape? Mr. Paul: I have never found the dump complying. Mr. Russell: That might be because you were never there after it had been covered. Mr. Paul: That is possible. Mr. Russell: But you don't want the Commissioners to believe that it has never been in compliance do you? Mr. Paul: No sir. Mr. Russell: In fact on many occasions it has and is - isn't that true? Mr. Paul: I haven't seen it that way and I wouldn't say it is true - no. Mr. Russell: Well it is obvious from you observation of it that the dump has been covered on occassions? Mr. Paul: Covered yes - but not covered sufficiently enough to be - you can see in the pictures here - where it has supposed to have been covered but with not enough earth on it. You have one picture there this picture - Mr. Russell: That was back in December - two days after Christmas right. Mr. Paul: Thats right. Mr. Russell: I think you said you had been there on occasions when they were actually working there and doing that covering - what kind of equipment did you see? Mr. Paul: The time - two big carryalls. Mr. Russell: This man Neuhauser was he there then? Mr. Paul: Yes. We talked to him. 8 Mr. Russell: Do you recall the last time you say Mr. Neuhauser? Mr. Paul: No I don't. Mr. Russell: Well you saw him here at the last hearing - you recall that? Have you seen him since that date? Mr. Paul: Oh yes, a lot of times. Mr. Russell: Several times. There at the dump? Mr. Paul: At the dump and meeting with Neuhauser he was trying to get other towns to form a district to start hauling and work with Mr. Neuhauser. Mr. Russell: Isn't it a fact, Mr. Paul, that after the hearing here which was late in October right around the first of November - after that date there was a fence errected there to contain blowing Mr. Paul: No. Mr. Russell: You never did see it? Mr. Paul: No sir. Mr. Russell: Well you remember Neuhauser's statement to the Commissioners here the last time that he was in the process of constructing it and that it would be in place within the week, and statements to that effect. Mr. Paul: I saw the results afterwards - you mean that steel he was going to move it. Mr. Russell: I am not sure I didn't see it myself. Mr. Paul: I don't think it ever materialized, I know he was building a lot of framework for it. I guess it blew over so many times. I never did see the fence - I saw the framework. Mr. Russell: I knew it was in the process - you did see it there? Mr. Paul: I saw the framework I didn't see any fence. Mr. Russell: Have you ever met Mr. Smith before, today? Mr. Paul: No sir. Mr. Russell: Before today, this is the first time you have ever seen him. And you say you did talk to him recently, I believe, Mr. Paul: Not recently. Sometime in February or March I wouldn't know when - I think maybe Mr. Smith could tell you when. I called him. 84 Mr. Russell: How does this dump campare in size to, how many dumps are there in Weld County? Mr. Paul: I would say 12 to 15 dumps. Mr. Russell: Twelve to fifteen dumps, alright. How do you compare this size with those other dumps? Mr. Paul: Oh, I would say it is the third largest. Mr. Russell: When you measure a dump, Mr. Paul, do you measure the entire area or just the area they are dumping in? Mr. Paul: If he has a trench we measure the trench not just the place where they dump. Mr. Russell: Does the statute on these landfill dump sites describe how to measure it? Mr. Paul: I don't think so. Mr. Russell: So that say last July we dumped in an area and it was covered and they were not dumping anymore, you would still count that in toward your computation of this 15,000 square foot requirement? Mr. Paul: Mr. Russell: Mr. Paul: If it wasn't closed off. Regardless of whether they were dumping at the time. Right, because the service is there and we find this in other dumps they will just haul over it. Mr. Russell: Well in this particular dump, they don't just dump ever it at random do they? Mr. Paul: Not the last time I was down there, no, at times yes. You can see pictures of barrels here, this is off in a separate place this is in a separate place, here is burning. You see this is a separate dump from these. Mr. Russell: Well now on this dump there is a road that runs along the north side, right? Mr.Paul: Yes. Mr. Russell: And if you were to measure the dump, would you start measuring from that road over to the spot where they are dumping? Mr. Paul: dumping. Mr. Russell: that right? I would measure the ravine down where they are Just in the one ravine where they are dumping is 9 Mr. Paul: ravines. Mr. Russell: Well as I understand now, there are two different I see. In size how would you compare this with the dump the city uses, the City of Greeley. Mr. Paul: Mr. Russell: the by-pass. Mr. Paul: Mr. Russells Mr. Paul: Mr. Russell: Mr. Harold Anderson: Third, I'd say Greeley, Longmont and Layfayette. Greeley is the largest and that is located near Right, southeast. Do they cover that on a daily basis. Yes they are covering now. That is all. I have one question for Mr. Paul. How many times have you contacted Mr. Neuhauser and the dump area and have giving them warning that we would not put up with this? Didn't we have a meeting here in November and he was given 30 days sort of a probation to get it changed. Mr. Paul: I would say I contacted John Neuhauser at least oh eight or ten times, because I was working with John, hoping that John would straighten up down there where he could get where he could yet other business here in Weld County. I would say - I mean - I like John Neuhauser he was an operator at first. Mr. Telep: Let the record show that 17 photographs, including 2 that were not taken by Mr. Paul, be introduced into evidence, Mr. Chairman. Marshall Anderson: We will accept those into evidence, as part of Mr. Paul's testimony. Mr. Telep: Jerry, you are through with Mr. Paul, temporarily Mr. Chairman, I think we have these other people here, I really don't know if they are here to present evidence or not. Would you state your name sir? George Reynolds: I own some land near there and we rent the 3/4 directly east of the dump, so we are very well acquainted with what has been going on. Mr. Telep: Would you tell the Commissioners in your own words just what is there, what you have seen, do it in your own words. 10 Mr. Reynolds: We we strip farm this ground to the east in 10 or 11 strips and I can honestly say that there isn't a yard of stubble that isn't covered with paper. Naturally it blows off the strip that isn't wheat now. Not only causing us we have to get off and unplug the machines. We also own ground dow to the south of this we have to go by there so I am well aware of what goes on at this place and I don't like to use this term but it is disgraceful what has gone on here for the past few years. I used to go by there two or three times a week when we were working there but it is much easier to drive 2 or 3 miles out of your road to get around rather than to drive by. As ever saying that it was ever - I have never been by when the thing looked decent or half -way decent. Also about your covering up - we I have been down below in there I have seen the thing so plugged up that they had to dump on the road because the dump was absolutely covered it must have taken weeks to fill up that much face. Then of course somehow or other it catches on fire someway or other, everytime they get a good bunch there and then of course it will burn for several days. I could go on for quite a while but I don't think it is necessary. Mr. Telep: Do you have any questions to ask Mr. Reynolds? Marshall Anderson: How long did you say Mr. Reynolds this thing has presented a problem? Mr. Reynolds: From the beginning. Mr. Anderson: That was over in the other area. Mr. Reynolds: Yes, to the west of there. Mr. Billings: There hasn't been any attempt to fence this at all? Mr. Reynolds: There has never been any at all our fence keeps it from blowing. Mr. Telep: Jerry do you have any questions? Mr. Russell: When was the last time you looked at the dump? Mr. Reynolds: Just a week ago Mr. Russell: What day was it? Mr. Reynolds: I don't know what day it was, it must have been the first of the week. Mr. Russell: About a week from now, was it the same windy day that Mr. Paul was down. 11 Mr. Reynolds: No, it wasn't that day, but I will say, we had a hired man over there plowing all day long so I am sure the wind was no 70 miles an hour. Mr. Russell: So on the day you were there it was the same day. Mr. Reynolds: No - it was this past - the wind wasn't blowing I know that. I have been over there once or twice every week, during the summer. Mr. Russell: Was your man plowing on that windy day now. Mr. Reynolds: Yes, he was. Mr. Russell: On Monday, a week ago today. Have you ever seen them doing any work there? Mr. Reynolds: I have never seen them work there, although I have seen evidence where they have gouged out ahead of time and tried to cover up afterwards, yes. I have seen a catapillar. Mr. Russell: I think you used the phrase, it is easier to go a couple of miles out of your way rather than to look at it. This is why I am trying to find out how Mr. Reynolds: It make me sick at my stomach when I drive by. Mr. Russell: Have you ever looked at any other dumps? Mr. Reynolds: Yes sir. Mr. Russell: You don't consider yourself an expert on dumps? Mr. Reynolds: I know what a little cleanliness is. Mr. Russell: What other dumps have you looked at Mr. Reynolds: The Longmont dump. Mr. Russell: Is that the only one? Mr. Reynolds: Well, I have seen the Denver dumps, I don't go out of my road to be a dump man. Mr. Russell: I didn't get your address. Mr. Reynolds: It is 1105 Hover Road in Longmont, Colorado. Mr. Russell: And do you own land - did you say you own land near there or do you live nearby? Mr. Reynolds: No, we own land we own about 15,000 acres that we V own there and we are renting about a thousand acres from the U. P. Coal Company, so its the 3/4 rent from theCoslett Estate which is directly east of this dump. 12 Mr. Russell: Mr. Reynolds: Mr. Russell: to him about the dump? Mr. Reynolds: Did you ever know Mr. Neuhauser or meet him? No Never talked to him - okay. Did you ever complain I complained to his wife once when they put down at the other end - when they put the fence up practically in the middle of the road. We were going to have to move our equipment through and rather than fight why went back through the back part of the section. The fence still stands down there. Mr. Russells There is a fence you say that is still there - does it obstruct the road? And you drive in from what direction? Mr. Reynolds: From the south. It wouldn't make any difference which w=.y you drive in the fence is still there. Mr. Russell: Well I drove through there this morning and I didn't find any fence. Mr. Reynolds: You went clear through up to the Base Line Road? Mr. Russell: Yes , we came through Layfayette, over 7 and all the way through to the dump. Mr. Reynolds: Well you weren't pulling a 16 foot implement. Mr. Russell: Well it is a fairly narrow dirt road there. Where is the fence located that you are talking about? Mr. Reynolds: You remember the railroad grate where the old dump they still dump occasionally there? There is a railroad grate on the west side and the road fall right beside it. Mr. Russell: Yes, I think I know where it is at. Mr. Reynolds: It would be impossible for us to bring our equipment through there so now we go back around through the country and do it that way the east of there. Mr. Russell: That is all I have. Mr. Telep: Are there any questions? Mr. Billings: Looking at these pictures, I wonder where these fifty gallon drums are being hauled in from and it looks to me as if they had been sealed with something in because there are quite a few of them that have blown apart which would be a serious hazzard to human beings if they were around if they were around when they were on fire. You notice these two pictures are not - I notice the one 13 Mr. Billings: that isn't burning you can see how it is bulged out there and that would be a good deal of pressure to do this to a fifty gallon drum. If somebody was anywhere near there and if that blew up it would slice somebody right in two. I notice quite a few of these around. Mr. Paul: Mr. Billings I think that is about the second or third time - I know the third time that Mr. Billings: Did you ever see a fifty gallon drum blow up. I have seen one blow up right out of the building. Mr. Paul: The time before this he even burned one of Mr. Neuhausers trucks that was close by, and it is very dangerous. Mr. Billings: If these were covered up right he could eliminate that hazzard. Mr. Paul: It is a pretty serious hazzard and causing someone to be injured. Marshall Anderson: Are there any more question of Mr. Reynolds? Do you have anything else you would like to add Mr. Reynolds? The dump you are talking about is the old ridge going down west of there. Mr. Reynolds: That is what I am talking about the last and the fence. Mr. Telep: We have Mrs. Reynolds here but Mrs. Broncucci: No, I am not Mrs. Reynolds, I am Mrs. Broncucci we own the dragstrip north and west. Mr. Telep: Are you here to give any testimony either for or against? Mrs. Broncucci: Against. Mr. Telep: I take it you have been at this location and have viewed this. Mrs. Broncucci: We live there now. Mr. Telep: You live there? Mrs Broncucci: Right. Mr. Telep: Would you mind telling the Commissioners in your own words what you have observed. Mrc Broncucci: Like Mr. Reynolds says our fields are constantly full with black paper and these huge sheets which is very bad and it always in our yard and we have the dragstrip.We have kids come out they clean up 14 Mrs. Broncucci: our paper. We have all of these papers to clean up in addition afterwards. We do have high speed vehicles on that race tract and if any of them were hit in the windshield they would have it. Mr. Telep: How far do you live from this dump sight? Mrs. Broncucci: Our house is right to the end, well it is almost on the corner lets see it would be about a half of a mile. Mr. Telep: A half of a mile from this dump sight, how long have you lived there? Mrs. Broncucci: We moved there in August. Mr. Telep: Of last year? Mrs. Broncucci: Right. Now we have had a caretaker house there since 1965. Mr. Telep: In other words this dump sight facility had been there long before you moved? Mrs. Broncucci: Well yes, but we didn't have all these big papers and stuff blowing around and sheets of cardboard as big as this table on our dragstrip. Mr. Telep: Was this place used as a dump sight at the time you moved there? Mrs. Broncucci: I couldn't tell you except when we first moved in now we have been building and it took us almost a year to build that. But when we first moved in night after night they hauled all night long, these trucks were going by all night long and I know they are not covering at night. Mr. Telep: Well that is alright, but it was used as a dump sight at the time you moved in there? Mrs. Broncucci: I asbume'so yes because they were hauling right away. Mr. Telep: How long has this dragstrip been there? Mrs. Broncucci: We started building back in 1964 and it was completed in 1965. Mr. Telep: To your knowledge was this used as a dumping ground even at that time? 15 Mrs. Broncucci: We didn't notice the trucks going by on drag racing days when we were out there cleaning up. Mr. Telep: I know but do you know of your own knowledge whether or not it was used as a dump fill? Mrs. Broncucci: Not to my knowledge, no. Mr. Telep: dump sight? Mrs. Broncucci: I see when did you first notice that it was used as a This year it has been the biggest problem and it was brought more to our attention because our dragstrip is located down below it. In fact there is over a 100 foot riser from the beginning to the end. So it isntt noticeable until you get all this stuff blowing around constantly. And there has been burning up there. We have had people come up from Erie on a Sunday, there was so much burning or blowing up that I think half the people in Erie thought our house was on fire - big black smoke all afternoon and the odor was bad. Mr. Telep: How much land do you own? Mrs. Broncucci: One hundred and fifty acres. Mr. Telep: Do you farm any of it? Mrs. Broncucci: Yes. Mr. Telep: If they had a fence there do you suppose it would catch these bluwir.g papers you are talking about? Mrs. Broncucci: I don't know they blow awfully high, they look like big baloons flying around on some of the windier days and they don't have to be 70 mile an hour winds. It is like a plastic paper or something it covers the whole yard and then these big pieces fly over. We always have to pick those up and burn them along with our stuff. Mr. Telep: Have you ever registered any complaints? Mrs. Broncucci: We call Mr. Anderson about once a week. Mr. Telep: Have you registered any complaints at all with the people who run this business. Mrs. Broncucci: Mr. Anderson said they were talking to Mr. Neuhauser. Mr. Telep: No, '.did you ever -do it? Mrs. Broncucci: No I don't even know who the man is. 17 Mr. Telep: You never took it upon yourself to visit this location Mr. Russell: Mrs. Broncucci: year was in February. Mr. Russell: Mrs. Broncucci: Mr. Russell: and complain personally, you never did that? Mrs. Broncucci: Visit the location? Well it is right there. Mr. Telep: Did you ever get over there to register any complaints with whomever would be there? Mrs. Broncucci: You mean the driver? Mr. Telep: Yes. Mrs. Broncucci: No, no Mr. Telep: I am just asking. Are there any questions? Mr. Russell: How often is the drag strip run, Mrs. Broncucci? Mrs. Broncucci: It depends, in March we had five scheduled and we had two that cancelled dut to snow. We didn't run the first two weeks in April, one of course being Easter. In the winter you don't run? Our last race was in November, our first race this Scheduled in February? They ran in February. I see. Assuming the weather conditions are good which apparently they will be from now to fall, what do you do, you run every Mrs. Broncucci: We will run almost every Sunday plus our Friday night graduations and we have a race scheduled for the night of the 24th. Mr. Russell: Mrs. Broncucci: Mr. Russell: Mrs. Broncucci: Every Sunday, plus Friday night. Every Friday night when the weather really gets warm. How many people do you usually get in the area? The 30th we had 4,500 people not counting the children that was paid attendance. Mr. Russell: Is that a typical turn out for you 4,500? Mrs. Broncucci: Well it is very difficult to say, if the Bronco's play you don't get as much and so on and so forth. Mr. Russell: Do you have concessions in the areas there too? Of course these people generate trash and rubbish themselves and you contrel that as best you can. 18 Mrs. Broncucci: We pick it up after the race and the next morning the Scouts from Erie come up and pick it up. Mr. Russell: The following day? Mrs. Broncucci: Most of it the bigger stuff we pick up that night after the race. We ourselves, our family. Mr. Russell: Then there is this additional clean-up the day following. Mrs. Broncucci: Yes, these are like small papers cups and that sort of thing. They are not big things. Mr. Russell: Thank you. Marshall Anderson: Are there any more questions? Mr. Russell: I might ask one other question, do you ever use the dump? Mrs. Broncucci: That dump? Mr. Russell: Yes. Mrs. Broncucci: No. Mr. Russell: Where do you dump? Mrs. Broncucci: We take ours to Erie. Mr. Russell: The Erie dump. Mr. Telep: I imagine you would like to ask your client to testify a little bit? Mr. Russell: Yes, I might make a couple of remarks. I am not sure when Neuhauser left, Carl do you know or recall? Mr. Smith: It was in December. Mr. Russell: Before Christmas? Mr. Smith: yes, just before Christmas. Mr. Russell: What is your connection with Sanitation Engineering Corporation? Mr. Smith: Well I am a stockholder in the corporation. Mr. Russell: Have you invested money in it - is that correct? Is that your only real connection with the business until the time Neuhauser left? Mr. Smith: Yes sir. 19 Mr. Russell: Mr. Smith: Mr. Russell: Mr. Smith: Mr. Russell: you were out there? Mr. Smith: Mr. Russell: Mr. Smith: Alright, did you know about the dump? Well I knew the dump was in operation. Had you ever gone out there and visited the dump yourself? Yes - I have been at the dump. And was that prior to the time Neuhauser left that Yes. How many times have you been out there? Oh I suppose two or three times in the years I have been acquainted with John. Mr. Russell: Alright, what was the condition of the dump when you were out there - that would be prior to the time that Neuhauser left. Mr. Smith: Generally the dump was in a controlled condition. Mr. Russell: As shown to you it was. You don't mean to imply to the Commissioners that on occasions it wasn't in good shape do you? Mr. Smith: No. Mr. Russell: Gentlemen, as we did at the last hearing certainly we must admit that we on several occasions, the dump has been in bad condition as Mr. Reynolds said - terrible condition. Now what have you - what were the circumstances under which Neuhauser left? Or explain to the Commissioners how this came to your attention. Mr. Smith: Well Mr. Neuhauser was in some sort of financial difficulty and he hired his brother-in-law to manage the business. He was in attendance at the March meeting we had here, Mr. Widner. Mr. Russell: Is that Dale Widrier? Mr. Smith: Yes. As I had indicated earlier I have been somewhat remote from the operation and at the time Neuhauser told me that he was putting Mr. Widner in charge was when Mr. Neuhauser told me he was gong down to Alabama to look after his brother who has a heart problem and was going to discontinue direct operation of his business there. That he was turning the business over here to his brother-in-law Mr. Widner to handle, and that is when I started getting more and more directly involved with the business. 20 Mr. Russell: Alright, without going into all the other problems that - this problem with the dump is one of many - is that correct? Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Russell: Did you ever know that there was a hearing up here last November, at which time, I came up here with Mr.Neuhauser? Mr. Smith: No. Mr. Russell: When did you find out there had been such a hearing? Mr. Smith: Mr. Paul called me, I would guess it was 6 to 8 weeks ago approximately. Mr. Russellt That was the first knowledge you had. Well since Mr. Neuhauser left and this Dale Widner took over, has there been any management changes, for instance is Widner still working for you? Mr. Smith: No. Mr. Russell: Are you engaged in the actual day to day operation of the business? Mr. Smith: Well, to answer that directly I have a full time job working as an engineer but I am in direct contact with the man who is mananging it now. Mr. Russell: Who do you have managing it now? Mr. Smith: My oldest son. Mr. Russell: And his name? Mr. Smith: Carl, Jr. Mr. Russell: Carl Smith Jr., right? What have you done or do you plan to do with regard to this dump? Mr. Smith: There are several things that have to be done, number (1) we are recently getting acquainted with the requirements, personnaly as well as my son who is managing it from the information that Mr. Paul mailed to us. That being as established as how to fill and take care of an operation of this nature. We are also having one of the tractors put in the shop to have the engine put in it. Mr. Russell: You may explain, I think this tractor came up at this last hearing in October. What kind of tractor is it? Mr. Smith: It is an Alles Chalmers - D-7. 21 Mr. Russell: Mr. Smith: Mr. Russell: Mr. Smith: It it one that the engine burned up on it or something? Yes. Where is it now? It is in Denver, at Lakewood in a shop where they Mr. Russell: Did you authorize some work on it - to be done on it? Mr. Smith: To put another engine in it. Mr. Russell: How much will that cost? Mr. Smith: Oh, about $1,200.00, I guess, I don't have a full estimate on'L it the first bill on parts was about 400 some dollars and then I asked them for a little more detail and its not a hard firm quotation it is subject to what additional part they find etc. but it will go approximately $1,200.00. Mr. Russell: What are your plans with this tractor? Mr. Smith: The plan is to put the dump in more controlled operation as indicated by the requirements that were recently established. Mr. Russell: Mr. Smith: Mr. Russell: Does this tractor have a blade on it? It has a dozer blade on it. Since you became really aware of this dump problem how have you been taking care of the covering of the stuff that is dumped out there. Mr. Smith: Well we are using two different road construction contractors who bring whatever equipment they have - one of them we have is Bailey , south of Layfayette, and the other is Pendelton and I believe he is Longmont. We bring them in to trench and cover. Mr. Russell: How often do you do that? Mr. Smith: It is approximately a week to ten days, it depends upon how deep they are able to dig the trench, and how much they are capable of stacking it doesn't always run the same volume. Mr. Russell: What does it cost to have them do this work? Mr. Smith: Two hundred dollars a day and eight hour day. Mr. Russell: And when you get this tractor fixed up and operating what are your plans for it then? 22 Mr. Smith: Well my plans for that is that we will still use the contractor to do the major trenching and then we will use the lighter tractor to cover dailey with or as requirement call for. Who will operate that, your son? Yes sir. I don't know have you ever measured the area in which Mr. Russell: Mr. Smith: Mr. Russell: you are dumping do you know how big it is? Mr. Smith: No. Mr. Russell: feet? Mr. Smith: Mr. Russell: Have you looked at any other dump in the county recently? Mr. Smith: Yes sir. Mr. Russell: Which ones have you looked at? Mr. Smith: I have looked at the Longmont dump, the Erie dump the Greeley city dump. Mr. Russell: Could you explain to the Commissioners, by way of comparison the way the other dumps compare to yours. Mr. Smith: Yes, those dumps compared to mine, in this regard they are well equipped county, city funded equipment. Many hundreds of Would you say it is more or less than 15,000 square I would say it is probably more than 15,000 square feet. thousands of dollars of equipment. Marshall Anderson: Mr. Smith: Mr. Harold Anderson: The county doesn't fund any dump. Not the Longmont? No sir, nor any place else, the city of course takes care of their dump but the county offer any equipment. We have had old dumps before this law came into effect - cleaned them up a little bit and that was it. Now they are altogether under private control. Mr. Smith: They are under private control? Mr. Harold Anderson: care of it. Now that is none of our business as long as it is properly You understand the city has a dump, the city takes taken care of. The county furnishes no equipment whatsoever. Mr. Russell: You are not in the dumping business? Mr. Harold Anderson: No sir. 23• Mr. Billings: You might give him a copy of that letter as to what we can do and what we can not do. We have a ruling from the State Association of County Commissioner Attorney and also approved by the Attorney General. Mr. Telep: We are not faced with that problem now gentlemen. I would hate to get involved in that now, Mr. Commissioners. Mr. Smith: My only implication there is that those three dumps which you designated as the two of them as being comparable or larger in size Than ours, which are tax supported. Now in so far as the quality of maintenance thats occured at these locations the city, the Greeley City dump, I am of the opinion that our dump is as well taken care of as their dump is. Both in two regards the amount of trash that is blowing around and the fencing that is up. In so far as the Longmont dump it is a well maintained operation. The Erie dump is closed all except one day, I can't find it open, so it must be Saturday morning, but I haven't checked on it. Mr. Russell: So in conclusion what would you ask that the Commissioners do in regard to your dump. Mr. Smith: Well I think I would like to ask two things, I would like to ask recognition that a sanitary landfill or a dump is something you can't make a beautiful sight for anyone to see, the need for disposing of the rubbish generated by our economy is something the government officials haven't the answer for so far as anything else and certainly that puts us in a positioq, those who are operating landfills, of having to accept the refuse and put it under cover and I offer here too that this is a free enterprise operation there in Layfayette. There is a lot of people who dump in that area that we never collect a charge from including even Brighton, driving over there, so I ask recognition of the fact that you can not make a sanitary landfill look like a park. Number two I would personally like to have a little time to organize and since I have just recently taken control of this thing get into operation some of the requirements of the statutes. Marshall Anderson: How much time are you talking about? Mr. Smith: Well I think the tractor can be back together in about two weeks, I would like to have six weeks time. 24 Mr. Russell: Just one other question I would like to clarify Carl you say other people were dumping. You mean other trash haulers as well as individual people. Mr. Smith: Trash haulers and other individual people. Mr. Telep: Well do you charge them any money, these other people and trash haulers? Mr. Smith: I try to collect from them but I haven't been able to except for one. Mr. Telep: Mr. Smith I would like to back up here a little bit. There are too many questions that are posed automatically here that I think the Commissioners want to have answered. For instance you say you took this over, alright, this posses a question immediately. This is a corporation isn't it? Mr. Smith: Thats right. Mr. Telep: Alright, who are the stockholders? You are one of the stockholders but who are the other stockholders? Mr. Smith: John Neuhauser and his wife. Mr. Telep: Now just you three. Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: Were you in there from the initial time it was incorporated? Were you a director? Mr. Smith: I was one of the orginal founders of the corporation. and I sold out of the business and in March of 1967. Mr. Telep: Lets see now, you, Mr. Neuhauser and his wife were three incorporators, right, then you sold out. Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: To whom? Mr. and Mrs. Neuhauser. Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: So then the corporation was just owned by husband and wife. Alright do you have any idea, when you sold out you had some stock didn't you? Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: How much stock did you have? 25 Mr. Smith: Fifty percent. Mr. Telep: You had fifty percent, and who had the other fifty percent? Mr. Smith: John Neuhauser and his wife. Mr. Telep: Did they have twenty-five percent each? Mr. Smith: I am not sure of how it was exactly how it was Mr. Telep: You didn't know? Mr. Russell: I think they had it together in joint tentancy, I don't recall either. Mr. Telep: Alright, now you say you sold out, would you mind telling us how you came back in. Mr. Smith: I bought back in. Mr. Telep: You bought back in, when was this? Mr. Smith: In April of 1968. Mr. Telep: In April of 1968, you bought back in, how much did it cost you to buy back in? Mr. Smith: $16,000.00. Mr. Telep: You paid John Neuhauser $16,000.00. Mr. Smith: Yes sir. Mr. Telep: How much stock did you get? Mr. Smith: Fifty-one percent. Mr. Telep: You got controlling interest? Mr. Smith: Yes sir. Mr. Telep: At the time we had that hearing and I think it was in October of last year - the 28th I think- you didn't know anything about that hearing and were a controlling stockholder? Well what - didn't you participate in the management of it at all with fifty-one percent ? Mr. Smith: Just the financial management. Mr. Telep: Just the financial management. Did you make money? Mr. Smith: No. We lost money. Mr. Telep: You lost money. Now at the present time you still own fifty-one percent? Mr. Smith: Yes. 26 Mr. Telep: Have you made any effort to obtain the balance of the stock to buy the Neuhausers out? Mr. Smith: No. Mr. Telep: Are you going to? Well that posses another question. You feel you don't need to, is that right? Mr. Smith: Mr. Telep: Mr. Smith: Mr. Telep: Thats right, he didn't want anymore. Is it the intention of Mr. Neuhauser to return? They have stated that it is. Does the corporation in which you own fifty-one percent, does it own the land? Do you just rent it or what? Mr. Smith: No, we just lease it. Mr. Telep: From whom? Mr. Smith: From Mr. Harold Pratt. Mr. Telep: P-ra-t-t Mr. Smith: Yes, of Longmont. Mr. Telep: How many acres does he own in this area? we are in Mr. Smith: I would say about of that section/he owns 3/4 of it. I think the line property in the center Mr. Telep: Do you lease it? Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: uo you pay him money for this lease. Mr. Smith: Mr. Telep: Mr. Smith: of the landfill. Mr. Telep: Mr. Smith: Yes. How much do you pay him? Fifty dollars a month and a percentage of the profit Whats the percentage of the profit? I can't accurately state, I am of the opinion that it is five percent. There hasn't been any profit so I Mr. Telep: Mr. Smith: Mr. Telep: Five perce:t of gross or net? No I think it is net. In other words five percent of nothing is nothing. 27 Mr. Telep: You say that Dale Widner, brother-in-law, managed this business when Neuhauser left and he is not there any more, right? Mr. Smith: No. Mr. Telep: I can assume of course that you fired him? Mr. Smith: That is right. Mr. Telep: Now you say your son manages this, how old is he? Mr. Smith: Twenty-one. Mr. Telep: Is he married? Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: Where does he live? Mr. Smith; He lives in Broomfield. Mr. Telep: He lives in Broomfield, is he on the job each day? Mr. Smith: Yes sir. Mr. Telep: All day? Mr. Smith: Yes sir, and part of the night. Mr. Telep: And part of the night. What time does he get on the job in the morning? Mr. Smith: Well he is on a twenty-fou hour call, we have a twenty-four hour operation and wherever he is needed and whatever time he is needed he is on the job. Mr. Telep: Does he do any other work than manage this dump sight. Mr. Paul: He is not driving a truck now? Mr. Smith: No. Mr. Telep: You feel he is capable of managing this business? Mr. Smith: Well from the demonstration that he has accomplished since the first of April, I am definitely of the opinion that he is. He started managing as of then. Mr. Telep: When? Mr. Smith: The first of April. Mr. Telep: This year? Mr. Smith: Yes sir. Mr. Telep: What had he been doing before managing this? Mr. Smith: He was driving one of the trash trucks or working in one of the various service points in the operation. 28 Mr. Telep: For whom did he drive this trash truck? Mr. Smith: For this corporation. Mr. Telep: For this corporation, oh I see, Does he ever drive the truck while he is managing this job? Mr. Smith: No. He may have need to drive one to a repair station other than that he does not drive to haul trash. Mr. Telep: How long has he been working on these trash trucks? Before he assumed being manager? Mr. Smith: About a year. Mr. Telep: About a year - how long has he been married? Mr. Smith: About a year or a little over - 14 months. Mr. Telep: Is it his intention to continue to live in Broomfield? Is there any possibility whatever the motive might be that he move on to the location? To be nearer to his work. Mr. Smith: No. Mr. Telep: I think you mentioned earlier and you told the Board, you can correct me if I an wrong, you hired this covering to be done and it is done about once a week or about every ten days, is that correct? Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: You are aware of it aren't you that this should be done more often than this? Mr. Smith: Well more often is a point of contention here, but it wasn't my understanding that it had to be covered everyday. Mr. Telep: Where did you get this understanding? I mean how did you go about it - did you ever ask Mr. 'aul for any literature? Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: Did you ever get it? Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: You have it now - you understand that it should be more often than a week. Mr. Smith: Yes sir. Mr. Telep: Assuming and this is just assuming - Mr. Smith: I would like to raise a question - the point that 29 Mr. Smith; was made when I answered yes I should be covered more often than once a week, only answering in the light that it should be covered to adequate control. So far as once a week I don't know that the statutes say anything about once a week. Mr. Telep: No it is to control. -When they say adequately they certainly don't leave it up to your judgement. Mr. Smith: Well they call that two inches. Mr. Telep: Yes. Tell me this assuming and just assuming that this Board allows you to continue to run this dump, would you be willing to meet the standards as are set out by the sanitarian, commensurate with the law of course. It is up to him to enforce the law that is why he is here today. Mr. Smith: Well I have to answer that I am certainly going move toward meeting that objective but I have indicated that I don't have a tractor there but there will be one there. Mr. Telep: Alright, well I hate to ask you this question, I really do but I have got to. In other words you tried to tell this Board here that your running this operation on a shoe string? Mr. Smith: Well, I didn't imply that it is a shoe string. In addition to the $16,000.00 I have put in an additional $16,000.00 trying to run this operation. Mr. Telep: Did it ever occur to you that perhaps maybe, and that is putting it mildly, that you are under financed. Get some more money in here, get some more partners or stockholders - like you say. Someone like yourself as you were to Mr. Neuhauser. Because obviously your - its going to take money to run this. You are going to have machinery there that nots going to be old and worn out and I don't mean to sound disrespectful. You are going to have something there available for the necessary earth to cover this up to prevent this blowing. It has come out that perhaps the papers were flying and maybe you can't control it completely because if you get gusts of wind, even though you don't have wind there over thirty or forty miles. You can imagine you will have gusts up to sixty or seventy miles and hour. These types of precautions are going to cost money, and fences and I am not talking about a four or five strand barbed wire fence. 30 Mr. Smith: I will have to answer your remarks from my direct knowledge of sanitary landfill operations. The whole picture is in front of our society today. I qualify my next remarks by saying I served on the Regional Air Pollution Committee for the Tri-County area and I served as a technical advisor and the statutes that Mr. Paul has made known to me recently I do not read in them all this being said here today. So that my remarks are intended to say that we intend to meet the statutes and I intend to get the equipment as I indicated earlier the financial situation of this corporation was such that it has taken a lot of work to get it at a point where we are now at a point where we can borrow. We couldn't borrow money - that was the reason I came back in with this thing is that John couldn't borrow money he had to have more equipment. People we think sabatoged the dump, when we talk about fires. The reason I say this situation on fires incidentially is because we don't pick up anything hot. If it is hot in a barrel we won't pick it up because we would have a fire in our truck. So the dump has to be set on fire. I don't know if you know it or not we have had problems with that man down the road from the dump. We think actually (change tape) Well I guess I shouldn't belabor the point but I still am not of the position that as the statutes have developed not all of the regulations have followed that have allowed the private contractor to be guided by what should be expected. For example they were going to stop all burning which has been done Mr. Telep: Well thats - of course we are going off in a tangent here but in other words what happens with someone else doesn't necessarily mean its going to happen with you because after all we have to enforce the law as best as we can. But going back and this is a very important point I would like to ask you here when this company was organized was it organized primarily to this type of business? Mr. Smith: Yes. Mr. Telep: I see. Now when you took over did you have any type of a meeting, are there any minutes to reflect the fact that you took over? That you took over the management of this business. Mr. Smith: Well Mr. Telep: In view of the fact 31 Mr. Smith: Mr. Telep: Mr. Smith: Mr. Telep: There is this Even though you have fifty-one percent. There is documentation. Okay, now assuming again, just assuming, if the Commissioners decide to terminate this permit that was granted to this corporation would you still be willing to stay in this business personally as Mr. Smith, because obviously we are having trouble here with this Sanitation Engineering Corporation? Now as far as your liability is concerned that is something else again but it seems to me that the Commissioners here have been deluged with complaints really and perhaps - I don't know whet their decision will be just making some assumptions here and this is where they ought to be made, I do believe. You have counsel here and I don't know what the decision is going to be but this particular operation - anything you put a model even though others are maybe as bad - it is a question of degree. Mr. Smith: Let me offer that, if you will grant me to the end of May, which is approximately six weeks, to get the operation in shape I will either have it in compliance or close it down. Mr. Telep: Do you have any further questions to ask? Marshall Anderson: Yes I have one, what kind of arrangements do you have with the landowner at the day of abandoment and you move out. Do you have to clean that area up or are you going to leave it like it is or as it is? Mr. Smith: No, no we have to cover it properly. Mr. Russell: If you close it down we are going to have to cover it up and clean it up the best we can. Marshall Anderson: Well it is proved here, I think everybody agrees that the thing has been a nuisance, a health hazzard. The neighbors I don't think have to put up with that, the paper blowing around. I have seen the papers clear over to I-25 and I think they have a legitmate gripe. I think we gave John Neuhauser all the lea -way six months ago that any man ought to get. It isn't our problem that he is in financial trouble. Mr. Smith: T:.ats understandable. Marshall Anderson: We got to protect the people. I want to know whether - I know that dump down below us isn't closed. I mean it is a mess no matter how you look at it. I was wondering Mr. Pratt's agreement was with you, whether you had to clean it up. It may Yet to the point where the county 32 Mr. Anderson: may have to go in there and do it. If they do somebody is going to pay for it, we can't take county equipment in there anymore and clean up these dumps. It has been a mess over there for the last three years since I have been in here. I have been down there three times and everytithe I see it it gets worse. There is no management there I think we gave John Neuhauser all the breaks anyone man could have. I don't know what the outcome of this hearing will be but I have heard about all the conservation I want to hear on it you are either going to shape up or ship our as far as I am concerned. But it is a mess and is a disgrace to the area as far as I am concerned and these dumps can be run you can grow trees right behind you. I saw them back in Illinois a week ago and the statement you made a while ago, that they couldn't look like a city park, well the hell they can't, they are coming right down the Mississippi River with them. They are farming right behind them so as far as not being able to keep them clean it is just a matter of housecleaning. We are just getting into this dunp thing and I think we went overboard with John Neuhauser trying to get along with him. It is not our problem that he can't go buy a cat that he can operate. These dumps can be run in a clean and orderly manner there is no use of this stuff blowing around. With a little ingenuity and a little bit of work they will work. They will make a lot of money if they are run right. But the thing has not been run like a business since I have been involved. We have tried our best to get John out - I think your attorney will agree with that. Mr. Russell: Yes, I have been in agreement. Mr. Anderson: I think these people who live next to that dump have a legitimate gripe, I know if I was living there I would be worse than you fellows. That is all I have to say. Do you have any questions Glenn? Mr. Billings: No I haven't. I have a suggestion that we do let him operate but he has to get somebody there - so he can get some money off some of these people who are dumping there because you are going to come to that anyway. If you are going to operate a dump you have a sign as to where and how they can dump. Mr. Smith: We plan to have a man out there when we get the tractor back in shape. 33 Harold Anderson: When was this dump first started? When did you move up from down below? Mr. Smith: I am sorry I can't tell you I don't know. Harold Anderson: It hasn't been over a year and a half? Mr. Paul: No it was oh I would say about the middle of the summer last year. Harold Anderson: You still have a contract with the IBM? Mr. Smith: Yes sir. Mr. Paul: The oil company - Mr. Billings asked where the oil cans - not only the IBM - these cans at one time were coming out of Denver or Commerce City or something. What oil company was it - Sunstrand? Harold Anderson: How many loads of paper - I call it paper because certainly most of it - do you haul from the IBM Company daily? Mr. Smith: There are about seven loads a day. Harold Anderson: Now with material of that kind you certainly should realize that it has to be covered up everyday. We don't know what wind is going to come up I have seen papers strung three miles east of there hanging on fence lines. The operation of the dump has to be - the material dumped in there must be considered. Now I have been there pretty often, I am not that saying anymore about/any part of that dump has been properly covered. The law requires two feet of earth on top after the fill is made, I am not right. Mr. Paul: Right. Harold Anderson: I think that is certainly the most important set-up is to consider the material dumped. Now you take tin cans and things are not going to blow as quick as these papers and most of your seven loads a day - about what capacity do your trucks have in cubic yards? Mr. Smith: Twenty cubic yards. Harold Anderson: Twenty cubic yards to the load, thats 140 cubic yards of paper or at least 120 cubic yards of paper exposed to the wind for a week or ten days. I will have to admit that the best I ever saw that dump was after that big wind it had cleaned ip up better than I have ever seen it. Mr. Russell: Which wind was that Mr. Anderson? Was that in January? Harold Anderson: No it was on a Tuesday, when they had the big wind up at Boulder. Audience: January 7th. 34 Harold Anderson: But you had this material to contend with and the book can't spell out exactly that when you have material of that kind if you are going to run the dump properly you have to cover it every day. Because it is material that scatters easily. Marshall Anderson: is there anymore or does anyone else have any comments? Mrs. Broncucci: I would like to add something, of course we buy special rates insurance on these days, but I would like to know if some of this debris did fly over and hit one of these cars that go about 200 miles an hour in the first quarter and the man is injured, what kind of liability insurance does he have to take care of this? Mr. Telep: Well that is a personal action. Mrs. Broncucci: WEll it would be, but does he have any? Mr. Telep: Well I would hope so, but we can't force him to take whatever insurance policies he should have. Hopefully he is aware of it. I am right, Jerry? Mr. Russell: That is a serious question of liability, in the first place. Mr. Telep: We can't establish any standards as a condition of having this business. He knows that and I am sure he does, if not his attorney will advise him. Jerry do you have any question? Mr. Russell: No, I think that Mr. Smith has summarized it fairly and his feeling about it now that he will either get it into shape or close it up and hopefully you will give this man some additional time too make his word good. Mr. Billings: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we take this under advisement and notify the people by registered letter the decision. Mr. Harold Anderson: Seconded. Marshall Amaierson: Meeting adjourned. Deputy County Clerk Tape 14 & 15 (1969) NOTICE OF APPEARANCE John Neuhauser dba Sanitation Engineering Corporation March 24, 1969 Present: The Board of County Commissioners: Mr. Marshall Anderson Mr. Harold Anderson County Attorney Samuel S. Telep Sanitation Engineering Corporation Mr. Carl Smith, , Partner Mr. Dale Widner, Manager Absent: Mr. Glenn K. Billings Commissioner Mr.John Neuhauser Partner Sanitation Engineering Corporation Tape 8 - 1969 Mr. Teleh: I would like to make a short report for the record here Mr. Jerry Russell, counsel for Mr. Smith and I pressume for the Sanitation Engineering Corporation, which I find out is a corporation, called me and asked for a continuance for his client. A continuance of the hearing that was set this morning at 10:30 on the grounds that he was notified quite late and he had a conflict in that he had to be in the District Court in Boulder County, Judge Bucks Court. He was wondering if this body of Board of County Commissioners would graciously admit a continuance to a time suitable to him so that he could be here and present his client Carl Smith or the Sanitation Engineering Corporation. Mr. Smith is here without counsel and if he asked for a continuance - only this Board can grant such a continuance - you might tell them when you would like it continued too, if this is the pleasure of the Board. However, this meeting will be called for this morning at 10:30 A. M. Mr. Smith you are here on behalf of the Sanitation Engineering Corporation, is that correct? Mr. Smith: Yes Mr. Telep: For the record, this is a corporation? A Colorado corporation - is that correct? Mr. Smith: Mr. Telep: Mr. Smith: Mr. Telep: Yes. You have no office in this corporation, is this correct? No sir. You are just a stockholder is that correct? Mr. Smith: Yes sir. Mr. Telep:. Mr. Widner, where do you live? Mr. Widner: I live in Arvada. Mr. Telep: Mr. Widner: Mr. Telep: Mr. Widner: Mr. Telep: Mr. Widner: Mr. Telep: What is your first name, Mr. Widner? Dale. Dale Widner - and you are the manager? Yes Of this company? Yes. Tell me Mr. Smith, who owns the other - the other stockholders of this corporation. Mr. Smith: John Neuhauser and his wife Ima. Mr. Telep: John Neuhauser - it is the same John Neuhauser who had a hearing before the Commissioners because of the complaints. Where is Mr. Neuhauser at this time? Mr. Smith: Mr. Neuhauser is in Alabama at the time. His brother is in poor health and he took a leave from the business to go down there and help his brother's operation - while he gets ready for as I understand heart surgery. He put Mr. Widner in charge during his absence. Mr. Telep: Mr. Smith I don't know how the Board is going to feel about it but there are a lot of questions to be answered here, there is a lot to be desired and I think that perhaps on behalf of the Board - they do not need to take my recommendation but I would recommend that this thing be continued in order that we find out who we are dealing with. Obviously we are dealing with the Sanitation Engineering Corporation, however, I notice the permit was issued to Mr. Neuhauser dba Sanitation Engineering Corporation. That would imply that there was a personal permit an in view of the fact that he is not here and we have it of record that he had this permit personally and it is not transferable - we have some problems. I would suggest that you bring your Articles of Incorporation so we would have an idea of what we are doing and who we are dealing with. It is my understanding that only he and his wife and you are members of this corporation - is that correct? Mr. Widner: Yes sir. 3 Mr. Telep: I think we have many questions to be answered because the Board is certainly concerned with this situation and now all of a sudden we are concerned with whom are we dealing? We don't even know really. Mr. Smith: May I pose a question - if the permit is issued in the name of Neuhauser dba Sanitation Engineering Corporation isn't it all encompassing. Mr. Telep: I doubt it, your attorney can tell you a little more about it. I doubt it very much - in other words - it was granted to a Mr. Neuhauser dba - I don't care if he does business as Triple "X" Corporation or what he is doing - or any kind of a development company or what it is - the fact of the matter is that it was granted to Nenhauser and I don't know what kind of minority stockholder or majority stockholder you are - I just don't know. Mr. Chairman I would recommend that you take this matter and perhaps reset it in view of the fact that we are ready to procede. I think he should have his counsel here so that he could be better advised so that this Board when it makes its decision would be sufficiently advised to make a judgement. Mr. Anderson: I think it would be more fair to you Mr. Smith, This is a rather serious situation and we want you to feel that you are not being taken advantage of. If it is alright with you will two weeks from today at the same time be alright? That would be the 7th of April Mr. Smith: I wonder if we might put it off another week the week of the 14th. I am not sure of your schedule. Marshall Anderson: Well lets set it for the 14th of April, Mr. Telep: Will you confirm this in writing that it is agreeable to you, or have Mr. Russell write on your behalf. He is your counsel isn't he? Mr. Smith: Yes. Marshall Anderson: It will be 10:30 A. M. on the morning of the 14th. I think it will be aairer for everybody involved. We have this problem of who owns what. We don't know whether the permit is issued to Sanitation Engineers or whether we issued on to John Neuhauser. 4 I think for everybody concerned we had probably get those things cleared away so - however our records show that it is issued to John Neuhauser not to Sanitation Engineering. Why don't you notify our office in writing. We will set it tentatively for the 14th of April. Meeting adjourndd Deputy County Clerk Violation: Sanitation EI__sneering Corp Carl Mk Smith 8 Garden Office Center Broomfield, Colorado 80Q20 ECEIPT FOR CERTIFIED MAIL -300 00 t-i N 0 CD z Continuance Date SENT TO ..-Z-1, rtie7 it -1',- �1f //OR /12,4 ,...,4,,,a, �'y (' 't' POSTMARK DATE _„/.fie/ SrTTREETANND NO. ��JJ��// / t (f ///./�/11� OP'.// ( �/J%/1/ P, 0., STATE, AND ZIP C ILL 4% food a ...75--0-7 EXTRA SERVICES FOR ADDITIONAL Return Receipt Shows to whom Shows to whom, and date date,, and where delivered d ❑ 10¢ fee ❑ 35¢ fee FEESDeliver to Addressee Only ❑ 50$ fee POD Form 3800 NO INSURANCE COVERAGE PROVIDED— (See o Mar. 1966 NOT FOR INTERNATIONAL MAIL RECEIPT FOR CERTIFIED MAIL -30¢ SENT TO STREET AND NO. 742,/,„/ P. 0., STATE, AND ZIPDE afn .P-4-271/4.-47;" EXTRA SERVICES FOR ADDITIONAL FEES Deliver to Addressee Only ❑ 5Ot fee Shows to whom Shows to whom, and date date, and where delivered delivered D lot fee ❑ 35t fee RECEIPT F SENT TO STREET AND NO. P. 0., STTE, AND ZIP CODE 9-/ ESTR Return Shows to whom and date delivered ❑ lot fee POD form 3800 NO INSURANCE COVERAGE G PROVIDED— See other side) Mar. 1966 NFOR INTERNATIONAL 'SERVICES FOR ADDITIONAL FEES Rwlpt Deliver to Shows to whom. - Add Only date, and where delivered ❑ 35¢ fee ❑ 5Ot fee POSTMARK OR DATE POSTMARK OR DATE Hello