HomeMy WebLinkAbout971912.tiffBEFORE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY, COLOLRADO
EXCERPT OF MEETING CONDUCTED APRIL 30,1997
RE: ZONING PERMIT ACCESSORY DWELLING(ZPAD) #1319 - WILSON
TAPE #97 - 10 @ 3686 - END
#97 - 11 @ 0 - 306
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
GEORGE E. BAXTER, CHAIR
CONSTANCE L. HARBERT, PRO TEM
DALE K. HALL
BARBARA J. KIRKMEYER
W.H. WEBSTER
ALSO PRESENT:
BRUCE T. BARKER, COUNTY ATTORNEY
TODD HODGES, DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING SERVICES
SHELLY K. MILLER, ACTING CLERK TO THE BOARD
ELIZABETH WILSON, APPLICANT
RICHARD WILSON, APPLICANT
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971912
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 CHAIR BAXTER: With that, we'll move to Planning to consider
2 ZPAD #79 Wilson.
3 MR. HODGES: Good morning. Todd Hodges, Department of
4 Planning Services. What I passed out this morning is a letter from
5 the applicants and response to a surrounding property owner letter.
6 And it was not included as part of the packet. The actual
7 surrounding property owner letter is in your existing packet. I'll
8 give you a little time to read that as I go through the
9 presentation. What I'll do is give a little history on the site.
10 And then I do have a video prepared if the Board would choose to
11 see that. And then go into the recommendation from there.
12 This site is located just west and adjacent to Weld County
13 Road 19, south and adjacent to Weld County Road 16. It is an
14 approximately 240 acre site that currently has four existing
15 structures existing on the site. I'll go into that in a little
16 more detail. There are two residences that were stick built, been
17 there previous. One is the principal residence. The second is a
18 non -conforming structure. Back in 1980, the first accessory to
19 farm was approved by MHP #498 and is existing on site and is
20 currently the mobile home on site. The fourth structure that
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21 exists on the site is a stick built building which was approved
22 January 4 of 1996 through staff and it is more than one accessory
23 structure to the farm through Zoning Permit #67. What I can do is,
24 it would probably help a little bit if I could go through the video
25 at this point. Does the Board wish to see that, or should I pass
26 it?
27 CHAIR BAXTER: Yes, go ahead.
28 MR. HODGES: Is this going to be alright where it's sitting?
29 CHAIR BAXTER: And the applicant can see it?
30 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Before we start that, I want to make
31 sure that I know what it is they want to do. And that is that they
32 want to add another mobile home to the property, is that correct?
33 MR. HODGES: I apologize, I should have gone into that. This
34 permit is a zoning permit for an accessory dwelling. It's for the
35 fifth residence on the property. It would be the third accessory
36 to the farm on the property. And it is a stick built building.
37 This is at the entrance to, this is actually the principal
38 residence of the property. And the entry off of Weld County Road
39 19. And this is looking back west. I'll pan around down to the
40 south. That's Weld County Road 19 looking south, and then across
41 to the east, south-east adjacent property owner and the land uses
42 associated with that. The uses surrounding this existing property
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are principally residential and agricultural uses. This is going
back north along 119. The house in the video right now is the
zoning permit that was approved last year. That is the one from
1980, and in back in the background, is the proposed location and
the structure on site. This is a non -conforming structure and the
principal residence. Now we're on about the middle ground on the
property looking west.
And looking back south toward the
structures themselves, the improvements on site.
to the east of this property.
And the land uses
I apologize, this is actually
located at the northeast corner of the property, is where this
point is on 19 and 16. And that's the intersection of the two
roads. This is located off of 16 about half way up the property,
there is an existing sprinkler system on the property, oil storage
and then a tower. The tower is not located on the property. And
this is showing the existing land use as it occurs right now. And
then back down to the improvements. And that is the proposed
location and the structure.
The Department of Planning Services staff is recommending
denial of this proposal. The recommendation is based on Section
43.2.3.1 of the Zoning Ordinance. Staff does not feel that the
applicant has met those requirements and specifically, in the
recommendation number l.b. that this accessory dwelling unit is
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65 necessary for the effective and economic operation for protection,
66 use or protection of the use of the property. Staff does not feel
67 that adequate evidence has been shown that it is necessary for the
68 operation to occur with this fifth residence on the property.
69 Staff is also concerned that the impact of five structures is the
70 same as a minor subdivision and that there are reasonable
71 alternatives to this actual application. Staff is recommending
72 denial and I will be open to any questions that you have at this
73 time. The applicant and representatives are here today.
74 CHAIR BAXTER: Just a clarification on the first page under
75 request. The total farm is 1 acre herb plot, 50 acres alfalfa, 50
76 acres corn, 170 acres of wheat, 7 head elk herd. That's the total
77 farm?
78 MR. HODGES: That's actually what the production is or
79 proposed on site. The 1 acre herb plot is a test plot from the
80 applicant's indication that is what they're going to run as a test
81 prior to actually planting the property.
82 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: You said there were reasonable
83 alternatives?
84 MR. HODGES: Yes, one of the alternatives the staff feels
85 would be a good alternative to this application would be a minor
86 subdivision. It's not guaranteed that would be approved, but as
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87 far as the impact that we could mitigate some of the impacts
88 through the minor subdivision process and that it also would be
89 long-range, be more beneficial to the property owner with this type
90 of permanent structure being placed that if the zoning permit were
91 approved, it's a temporary permit, the structure is more permanent
92 and basically being a stick built and placed on a permanent
93 foundation. It's a little tougher to move that if the use was ever
94 ceased.
95 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: You said the zoning permit is a
96 temporary permit?
97 MR. HODGES: Yes.
98 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: Based on?
99 MR. HODGES: Based on the need for the accessory to farm.
100 COMMISSIONER BAXTER: And I understand that just as temporary
101 as a mobile home permit for accessory to farm, only it happens to
102 be a stick built, so it's called a ZPAD.
103 MR. HODGES: Correct.
104 CHAIR BAXTER: Which is sort of a conflict anyway.
105 COMMISSIONER HALL: So just for clarification, the building is
106 not there yet?
107 MR. HODGES: Actually it is on site. It's up on steel frames.
108 COMMISSIONER HALL: So this is there to justify what's there,
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109 or this request is at, or what?
110 MR. HODGES: This is actually to allow that. Because a
111 building permit would not be released unless the zoning permit were
112 approved. So the applicant would still have to get the proper
113 permit. I believe the septic permit has been applied for and
114 approved based on the other uses.
115 COMMISSIONER WEBSTER: Are persons living in the mobile home
116 at the present time?
117 MR. HODGES: There are actually, from the discussions with the
118 applicant, they are family members who are working on the property.
119 COMMISSIONER WEBSTER: They are working on the property?
120 MR. HODGES: And I would let the applicant go into more detail
121 on that as far as to what extent on the property.
122 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: On the video, I believe you showed us
123 one stick built home that you indicated was a non-compliance.
124 MR. HODGES: Yes. It's one of the previous to the original
125 homestead and it was built and it was prior to, actually release of
126 that first accessory was one of the non -conforming.
127 COMMISSIONER BAXTER: I think it was non -conforming, not non -
128 complying.
129 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Non -conforming, I'm sorry. Alright. So
130 they have two stick built homes on the property now?
131 MR. HODGES: That are permanent.
132 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: That are permanent fixtures. And then
133 they have a mobile home.
134 MR. HODGES: A mobile home which was the first accessory that
135 was approved back in 1980, and then last year the second accessory
136 was permitted through staff on the 240 acres.
137 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: And that is a,
138 MR. HODGES: That's stick built.
139 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: So they actually have three stick built
140 homes?
141 MR. HODGES: Three stick builds that are in place.
142 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: And everyone that lives in those, or are
143 planning to live in them, are family members as far as you are
144 concerned?
145 MR. HODGES: Right. That's what the applicant has indicated.
146 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: And it takes that many people to farm
147 270 acres.
148 MR. HODGES: And that is what they are proposing.
149 CHAIR BAXTER: Are there any questions to staff? Did you have
150 anything else, Todd?
151 MR. HODGES: No. I don't.
152 CHAIR BAXTER: At this time, would the applicant or their
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153 representatives come forward. Give your name and address for the
154 record and present what you have.
155 MS. WILSON: My name is Elizabeth Wilson and my address 6707
156 Weld County Road 19, Fort Lupton. What my husband is passing out
157 right now is a response to what you got in your packet from
158 planning.
159 CHAIR BAXTER: Just a second. Todd, would you move that mike
160 a little closer?
161 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Yes, we can't hear at all.
162 CHAIR BAXTER: Try to speak into the mike please. It's being
163 recorded and the people can't hear it unless.
164 MS. WILSON: Do you want me to start over with my name and
165 address?
166 CHAIR BAXTER: Yes, please.
167 MS. WILSON: My name is Elizabeth Wilson and I live at 6707
168 Weld County Road 19. The paper that we just passed out, the
169 project overview and then the specific responses, are based on the
170 packet that we received from Planning and maybe will help to answer
171 a few of the questions. To give you a little bit of the history,
172 we bought the property in January 1996 with the intention of
173 farming it We intend to have a greenhouse which is labor
174 intensive on the property for wholesaling herbs and so that's not
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175 exactly specifically mentioned, although the greenhouse is in the
176 plans inside the packet, it doesn't really mention in Planning
177 exactly how labor intensive that would be, and that's why we need
178 the people on site. There will be split -shift hours and it's real
179 intensive with the planting and transplanting and getting the
180 little seedlings potted and transporting and things like that.
181 There would be one person, at least, from each dwelling, working on
182 the site primarily within the next month. The reason that we
183 weren't able to farm it until now is, by contract when we bought
184 it, the tenant farmer for the previous owner already had a crop in
185 the ground and had a contract to use the ground through the whole
186 year of 1996. So we are just now starting able to get our project
187 going. We knew from the beginning that we would need two accessory
188 dwellings and we tried to apply for the two permits together. At
189 that time we had only located one house so they told us we needed
190 to apply for them separately, which we did. We went through the
191 process and it was not a problem, and the stick built that was in
192 the video was approved. So when we found the second house, we
193 brought that out to the site. It has not been set down. And we
194 began the same process. We're still covered by all the same
195 documentation, we have the same project, the same proposal. This
196 time we went around again and talked to all the neighbors. We have
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197 probably, I think we figured 82 percent. Several of the signatures
198 that we did get copies of were not on the signed list, but we've
199 submitted those separately and I don't see them in the packet. But
200 they do exist and they cover another four parcels. Our plan is to
201 raise herbs in the greenhouse and also the irrigated land that used
202 to be in corn, we would like to put that into an assortment of
203 herbs, including both culinary and medicinal herbs. And the
204 medicinal ones, some things like akinesia, take three or four years
205 to really develop a good root crop before you can start harvesting
206 them. So we're going to try to do a mix of annuals that will
207 return money soon and perennials that will be there for an existing
208 period of time. The reason that we chose a stick built house is
209 because this is, we know, a temporary dwelling. But for our
210 family, all of us that are involved in it, we intend to make it a
211 long-term commitment to the business. It's going to be hard to
212 find people that want to come out and work so long to get things up
213 and running if they aren't family. But even if the people in the
214 dwellings weren't family, we would still need to have somebody on
215 site for the greenhouse.
216 The other thing that we're raising is elk. And they're
217 currently boarded at another facility. We are trying to build our
218 facilities on site, but the previous tenant farmer's hay stack has
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219 been right where our facility needs to go and he is in the process
220 of removing that right now. But there's kind of been obstacles
221 that we've needed to overcome. And this isn't a good time to move
222 the elk because three of them are bred and we need to go ahead and
223 calve where they are and be settled before we move them to where we
224 are and we need to have our 8 -foot fences up. We do have our
225 permit from the Department of Agriculture but we want to have the
226 handling facilities in place before we move the elk on site. But
227 we already own them and that's one of the other reasons why we put
228 that little stick built back where we did. It's back off the road.
229 We already had existing access. We already have existing water and
230 power. It's a small house, but where it's strategically placed, it
231 gives us a really good view of where the elk handling facilities
232 and the elk pasture will be, as well as a good view of the
233 greenhouse in front. The concerns that the County brought up about
234 reasonable alternatives, today's the first time that it was even
235 suggested to us that we try to make that a minor subdivision.
236 Probably the first two big problems with that would be that we need
237 to do this now, as soon as possible. It's a long drawn-out
238 process, and like Todd said, it's not guaranteed. And it seems
239 kind of silly to make a subdivision for a house that has been there
240 since 1924 and it's 20x24 feet in size. That's one of the existing
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241 stick built dwellings. They're not really big and they're not what
242 you would do if you were doing a subdivision. We did request
243 permission to divide off a little bit of land in the northwest
244 corner where it's not irrigable and it blows out, and we were told
245 that if we tried to divide up any of our land, that we would lose
246 our accessory dwelling permit that we just got approved. So we
247 have tried other things. We told them we'd take the smallest house
248 out of use as a residence if we could put in a little bit bigger
249 house for use as a residence, and we were told that we couldn't do
250 that because the smaller dwelling was a non -conforming use. We
251 tried checking into rentals in the area. They are very scarce and
252 they are real expensive, especially any kind of housing out in the
253 country, and none of that would be as good as having somebody on
254 site anyway to kind of oversee our work in the greenhouse and to
255 kind of keep a really good eye on the elk. Especially when the
256 facilities are new. They are not vicious, but they are skittish
257 and they're real expensive and other elk breeders have had
258 situations where neighbor kids have shot at them or they've gotten
259 out, and we don't want anything like that to happen. So we need to
260 have people on site so that somebody can be there pretty much all
261 the time.
262 I know that Planning said that they have never had a request
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263 like ours for an herb operation. The intensity of it might be
264 something that's a little bit, you know, hasn't been discussed too
265 much, but it is a valid agricultural use. As a point of reference,
266 Rabbit Shadow Farm in Loveland, they have two greenhouse, three
267 cold frames, they don't have very much outside acreage, they do
268 mostly all inside things so they don't even have the outside field
269 crops to deal with. They are retail, but they have 23 full-time
270 people. Probably five of them do retail. We're not trying to get
271 into that, but my point being that they have 18 full-time people
272 trying to work there to do just the greenhouse part. So it is real
273 labor intensive.
274 This accessory dwelling will be occupied by us, the owners.
275 Adequate water and sewage deposal facilities are already available.
276 The fire department, and roads didn't have any objections. Do you
277 have any questions?
278 CHAIR BAXTER: The first I have is, did you say earlier that
279 you would have one person from each of the five houses, so how many
280 people would be working?
281 MS. WILSON: Probably, well 5 people would be working full -
282 time, not doing anything else. We've put in a real extensive
283 projection of what we need for labor, just for this first year of
284 what we're doing, and figured that we need 9-1/2 full-time people.
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285 We would have our family members. Everybody will be working there
286 some, but at least one person from each accessory dwelling and from
287 another will be working exclusively at the farming part of it. And
288 that will give us a chance to have, it's going to be my two
289 daughters and myself doing herbs. That will be at home and
290 somebody will be there all the time supervising everything.
291 CHAIR BAXTER: You said you have the elk already. You've been
292 in elk ranching, have you been in farming before, is that what
293 you've been doing?
294 MS. WILSON: Yes, we've farmed another farm over on Road 15
295 for 11 years. We have the elk boarded someplace else right now
296 because they require different facilities than just the cattle.
297 They need 8 -foot fences and kind of a lot more extensive facility.
298 We've got the plans drawn and our approval from the Ag Department.
299 Like I said, the hay stack is right where we need to put it. We
300 planned out the whole farm real carefully when we started the
301 project and everything has been done with a lot of consideration
302 and thought.
303 CHAIR BAXTER: Did you bring anything else to bring for your
304 presentation right now?
305 MS. WILSON: No, I think we handed out a little
306 CHAIR BAXTER: Okay, you will get an opportunity to answer the
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307 questions that are brought up from the public. Okay, is there
308 anyone in the audience who would like to either speak for or
309 against this? Yes, come forward if you would please. We need your
310 name and address for the record and then your statement.
311 MR. DVORAK: I am Robert Joseph Dvorak. I reside at 6363 Weld
312 County Road 20 in Longmont which is due north of Firestone. 15
313 years ago when Wilsons moved into the area and they became
314 neighbors, they came out without a welcoming committee and
315 introduced themselves and they have four boys and two girls. I
316 have in my family, I have one less boy. They came out and
317 introduced themselves and have been friends, neighbors and friends
318 since that time. The basic family unit, a strong basic family unit
319 is one that has an abundance of love. It has a spiritual
320 togetherness. It has a continuing participation and the stronger
321 that participation is, the stronger the family unit is. The
322 farming that Wilsons did at that time was, to my knowledge, well
323 done. And the cooperation, there were times when some of my
324 machinery broke down and they helped, and there were times when
325 they had, I used their machinery as well. And they were, there is
326 a sense of cooperation and respect and when you have 7 or 8 people
327 in a household with one bathroom, you have a tendency to have both
328 of those. When you have that many kids, as many as we do, and of
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329 modest means, then you do have a certain amount of cars and that
330 you have when they're older and repairing them. Joe Wilson's son
331 has helped me in car repair for my children and has helped others
332 in giving a car to someone that needs. They were on the location
333 on Road 15 for 11 years and moved into Lakewood for a while and
334 they are again neighbors in the area. And what I have seen in the
335 past, I feel that the family unit together, working together, is an
336 asset to the whole area. Thank you.
337 CHAIR BAXTER: Thank you. Anybody have any questions? Thank
338 you. Would anyone else like to come forward to speak either for or
339 against this? Yes. I'll just remind you, we do need your name and
340 address for the record, please.
341 MS. SPURLING: Diane Spurling, 6648 WCR 19. We're the
342 residents that are across the road and to the south and down a
343 little bit from them. And I'd also like to say I had oral surgery
344 about a week ago and I'm having trouble talking. So if you don't
345 understand me, ask. First of all, I'd like to say I'm all for
346 family. I think it's great when you work together. I have nothing
347 against the Wilsons. I also have a family, I just don't happen to
348 house them all. There is so much I'd like to say, I hardly know
349 where to begin. But I'll begin. I received yesterday a certified
350 letter and a personal letter from the Wilsons and I didn't read
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351 them because we were too close to the hearing. I knew what I
352 wanted to say and I wasn't going to be swayed by anything. I'd
353 like to give these to the attorney and if they're not submitted for
354 the record, please submit them. I opened them and gave them to
355 Todd before the hearing.
356 MR. BARKER: This letter is in your packet that you were given
357 by Todd. It's the letter that's addressed to Thomas C. and Diana
358 L. Spurling and it's dated April 26, 1997.
359 MS. SPURLING: And was there a second letter?
360 MR. BARKER: Actually there was a copy. There was the
361 original and then the copy.
362 MS. SPURLING: Okay. So you do have them in your packet.
363 Okay. You also have read and received the letter that was also
364 included in your packet that my husband and I wrote. We farm the
365 quarter section across the road. The farm has been in the family
366 since 1958. My husband and I have been farming it as our only
367 livelihood and raising livestock since 1977. It might be easier at
368 this point if you would just ask me whatever questions you have,
369 and then whatever's left out, I'll get to.
370 CHAIR BAXTER: The Board hasn't
371 MS. SPURLING: Well, I'll state my letter. We strongly object
372 to another temporary accessory based on the fact that we don't feel
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373 that the use has been established. Their proposal is wonderful.
374 I wish it was across the road from us. They've had 16 months to
375 work on it. They've given no indication that they are in any way
376 directed towards farming, towards livestock. All we have is houses
377 and more people. And I'm very upset about that. We already are
378 working a second shift on that farm. Their main activity is
379 located in their 46x90 foot building. They have more than enough,
380 my letter refers to them as "boys" based on their behavior and lack
381 of judgment, I don't know their ages. They're working on cars 24
382 hours a day. We have commercial tow trucks coming in, picked up,
383 taking away, pick-up loads and trailer loads of car parts, tires.
384 We listen to hour upon hour of revving engines, which is very
385 disturbing and very nerve-wracking. The Wilsons didn't mention
386 that they recently moved in, I believe it was a week ago on
387 Saturday, is the first time that they've been there. The trailer
388 was occupied last December. Up until then, there's been nothing
389 there but boys. Houses full of boys, young boys. I'll refer to my
390 notes.
391 Based on farming the farm, since they haven't worked it in the
392 last 16 months, I have to ask what have they been doing? The only
393 thing they've been doing is working on vehicles. And I don't think
394 that, we're zoned agriculture, we've ended up with an auto shop of
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395 some kind across the street from us. I have seen cars primered and
396 taped. Apparently they are being painted there. I have seen junk
397 cars hauled away. I don't know what more to say. Even in the
398 winter, they've heated the shops, so in the winter they can close
399 all the doors and bang all night. We can still hear it in our bed,
400 the banging and the revving of engines. They come and go 24 hours
401 a day. Apparently their friends know that they are out in the
402 shop, so they feel free to come and go. They all gear down in
403 front of our house. They gear shift up in front of our house. The
404 lights hit our bedroom. I mean, you are destroying what life we
405 have left and you're chasing your dream. We've worked hard. We
406 have sweat and blood in our lives and we're not giving up our dream
407 either. And I'm getting too emotional so maybe we should just go
408 back to the facts. As I said, I have nothing against them. The
409 plan's wonderful, but it does not exist. And as far as family
410 members, I couldn't give you a count of how many are living there
411 or staying there. In the last year, they say they had a contract
412 on it and were unable to do anything. There was no weed control,
413 no water control, no prairie dog control, no indication of any,
414 anything to do with the property. Just that garage and the cars
415 period. I find it hard to imagine since there are already so many
416 people housed there, so many family members, that surely they would
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417 have begun something by now, some indication of what they were
418 doing. It wasn't for a lack of labor, is what I'm trying to say.
419 Cost to the County, this may not be fair to mention it, but I'm
420 going to because I don't want it to happen again. No waste ditches
421 were cut in last year. That would have been the farmer's
422 responsibility that was farming correct. There was water running
423 everywhere out there. Crossroad 19 we had a rain. During that
424 time they were using an access off 19, they rutted it all up so all
425 of the irrigation water, the rain water, swept across 19, across
426 our fields. Since then, the County's come out. I talked to them
427 for months. They came out and spent five days there making a
428 barrow ditch that should carry anything that comes across there
429 provided it's not broken down by houses going in and out. The
430 Wilsons have repeatedly referred to me in letters that they've sent
431 various places as a hostile neighbor. I want you to know I didn't
432 start out as a hostile neighbor. But when you look up and here
433 come all your new neighbors, car loads and car loads, and they're
434 all pulling, they also have their own tow truck that's there on the
435 place. Several times they flip that on at night and have almost
436 given me a heart attack. My whole bedroom, you know the flashing
437 lights and stuff. Last summer was the worst summer of my whole
438 life. There was no adult supervision there. And the boys don't
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439 seem to know the difference between 2:00 in the morning and 2:00 in
440 the afternoon. I've probably said enough about that.
441 What my husband and I would like, what we're asking you for,
442 is that since there is no use at this time, I don't really see that
443 there is going to be a use, we ask for denial of this application
444 and we also ask that you seriously look at the use of the other
445 accessory dwellings and consider just what it is we're doing out
446 there. Thank you.
447 CHAIR BAXTER: I did have a question. You've lived there for
448 some time. I have a question about the farming. You alluded to
449 the way it was farmed last year, but over the past years, this
450 parcel of ground has been farmed by someone else?
451 MS. SPURLING: It has been farmed by one man and his two sons.
452 When we moved in, they were about knee high. And he farmed there
453 for the last 20 years. One man. He also raised livestock there.
454 He didn't live on the property. When his sons got older, they
455 lived on the property. But it was one man and his son as his son
456 grew up, with farming and livestock. It was all irrigated at that
457 time.
458 That's another thing I wanted to mention. There's only two
459 shares of water left on this farm. There's an overhead sprinkler.
460 You know, most of us farmers, before we go planting crops and
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461 making plans, the most important is the water source.
462 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Have you ever complained to our Zoning
463 Department at all regarding the activities over there?
464 MS. SPURLING: No. My husband and I are great believers that
465 it can only get better. Until this application and the house came
466 rolling down the road, we gave up all hope. It's not going to get
467 any better. No, we have buried our heads. We keep busy. Several
468 times I would have went across the road and complained, but there
469 was just a group of boys, you know.
470 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Then I assume that the water rights
471 from the farmer before, he kept them or sold them to somebody else,
472 is that correct, or he rented them or leased some water or
473 something?
474 MS. SPURLING: The farm is Mr. Supa's farm and I believe he
475 sold the water off three or four years ago and kept two shares, I
476 suppose to support the sprinkler system.
477 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Okay, And are you aware, or was it
478 apparent that he was farming this land the last 12 months, I mean
479 from January of 1996 to 97? Apparently the applicant said that he
480 had a right in there to farm the land even though they purchased it
481 last year. Do you feel that Mr. Suca or whatever his name was, was
482 farming that last summer?
23
483 MS. SPURLING: Yes he was. Mr. Supa owned the property. He's
484 an elderly gentleman and he had a farmer, Fred Hamilton, that had
485 farmed that for 20 years. And the same farmer farmed it that year.
486 They stated they bought it in January that year. Yes, the same
487 farmer that farmed it for 20 years.
488 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: So he harvested the crops last Fall and
489 so on.
490 MS. SPURLING: Exactly. He harvested them last Fall and he
491 was not seen again until, I think I've seen him once or twice going
492 up and down the road. But no, he left the place when the crops
493 left.
494 CHAIR BAXTER: You did mentioned ditches that weren't pulled
495 and water that ran away. Was that on flood irrigated ground then
496 that was not farmed last year, or what was the problem?
497 MS. SPURLING: That was on irrigated ground. The problem
498 being is through the years, well I don't know why, there was a
499 decision made, they plowed it right up to Road 19 or whatever.
500 There was a water line that went in several years ago and just
501 decided to farm up to the edge of the road. There was a small
502 enough ditch there to barely contain the irrigation water and keep
503 it on their side of the road. The culverts weren't cleaned. But
504 then it rained while the water was coming down, so that took care
24
505 of that, you know. The house that they had moved in previously,
506 they were going off Road 19 and they rutted it all up. So when the
507 water hit the ruts, it, you know, just came across the road. But
508 like I said, since then the County has taken care of it. That was
509 another problem for us. The boys liked to take all their vehicles
510 out and they drag race all up and down Road 19. They stop at our
511 property line and see how fast they can hit the corner up there.
512 That's why there's two signs knocked down. And they also like to
513 take their vehicles out at night and play in all the mud puddles.
514 I sound like a school girl telling you all my problems. But it's
515 been quite trying. But we have sat there with our fingers crossed,
516 just hoping and praying that something would improve. Well, at
517 this point, nothing has improved. We have more people and now we
518 need another family to come in. And there still has been no
519 increase, you know it takes one man to drive a tractor. That's all
520 it takes. We have the man power.
521 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: How many acres do you own?
522 MS. SPURLING: A quarter section, 160.
523 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: And how much help do you have?
524 MS. SPURLING: None. We have never had any help. It was
525 irrigated when we were younger. It was corn, alfalfa, barley. As
526 we grew older and tireder, we also raised hogs. We had a farrow to
25
527 finish operation. We used to feed out, we kept about 200 pigs on
528 the place, feeding them out. We irrigated, we farmed, we did
529 everything. As we got older, we have now gone to wheat. We're no
530 longer able to walk through the mud for days on end. We've given
531 up the livestock, we've calmed down. We plan on staying there
532 until we reach retirement age, was our plan. And that has been our
533 sole income, you know.
534 CHAIR BAXTER: Any further questions:
535 MS. SPURLING: I would just like to repeat, please find a
536 solution for this.
537 CHAIR BAXTER: Is there anyone else in the audience who would
538 like to come forward and speak either for or against this
539 application?
540 MR. SPURLING: I'm Tom Spurling. 6648 WCR 19. And I'd like to
541 just tell Wilsons a couple of things. One thing I think they've
542 CHAIR BAXTER: You do need to address the Board. We're the
543 ones that have to decide, so if you would, if it's pertinent to the
544 subject, we're glad to hear it.
545 MR. SPURLING: Okay, I'll address the Board. I believe in all
546 these letters and everything, the family has been haphazardly used.
547 If she had this much family, she'd be in the world record book.
548 This is not family, no more than I want to be Heaven's Gate family.
26
549 And another thing, I believe if she'd had done as she intended
550 originally and hadn't Rambo'd it in on us, she'll have a lot better
551 luck from here on. Thank you.
552 CHAIR BAXTER: Thank you. Anyone else?
553 MS. ADAMS: Diane Adams, 7987 Weld Road 19. My husband and I
554 also farm. My main concern is the precedent being set by
555 establishing stick built houses being moved in under temporary
556 residency restrictions. I don't feel that's appropriate and I
557 think that it's really an infringement on the rules that have been
558 set up for proper reasons to maintain the agricultural community in
559 a realistic and justifiable basis. I recommend please deny this
560 application. Thank you.
561 CHAIR BAXTER: Thank you. I would only add that we would not
562 be establishing anything new. This ZPAD has infact been there,
563 whether for better or worse, it is there. We just have to decide
564 whether to use it. Anybody else? If not, I will close public
565 testimony. The applicant would please come back and if you would
566 like to answer some of the questions that have been raised.
567 Name and address, please, again.
568 MS. WILSON: My name is Elizabeth Wilson, and I live at 6707
569 WCR 19. I have several things that I'd like to say. The first
570 thing is that I'm very sorry that they didn't come over or call or
27
571 contact us personally. We wrote to them, we called them. They did
572 not return phone calls. We tried to contact them personally and
573 didn't get an answer. It is certainly our intention to be good
574 neighbors. I know the boys were real upset to think that they had
575 given you this much grief when you had never even, we didn't know
576 who you were until I saw you at Tri-Area Planning Commission. That
577 was the first time that we'd ever seen you. We would have been
578 happy to try to deal with any problems as they came up. Certainly,
579 I think that the working on cars 24 hours a day and so forth might
580 be a little bit of an exaggeration, but I don't doubt that it's
581 possible that things could happen that are annoying. We're looking
582 at trying to put in a fence right now that will be at least a
583 visual and somewhat of a noise break. We've talked to everybody
584 that's living there about keeping quiet hours at night. As far as
585 driving in the mud, I don't think that you know, that's probably
586 true, they did take 4 wheels out in the pond and things like that,
587 but I don't think that's a bad thing. The shop is not a business,
588 not in any way. We do have the boys and we have their friends and
589 we felt like when you have the boys, it's your responsibility to
590 have a place for them to do something that's a constructive hobby
591 and someplace where they can be with their friends where we know
592 where they are and what they're doing. If the noise is a problem,
28
593 we would be happy to try to work with anything like that. It is
594 not our intention to make anybody else's life unhappy. There
595 haven't been, as you have alleged, unsupervised boys over there.
596 That's not true. There's always an adult on the property, always
597 when somebody else is there. The biggest consideration here is
598 that what we were trying to explain about we have not been able to
599 get the operation that we bought the place for under way until this
600 year. And so far this year, we've already gotten the hay disced,
601 you know we've got the equipment for haying, we've got equipment to
602 deal with the wheat. This is our summer fallow year. We are doing
603 weed control. We've already got almost everything gone through.
604 I'll let you do that part.
605 MR. WILSON: My name is Richard Wilson, 6707 WCR 19. We
606 weren't able to move to that house until a week ago because our
607 house took a long time to get sold in town. I have tilled 135
608 acres. I would think that the Spurlings know what tilled ground
609 looks like. They allege that there's no farming activity going on
610 at the place, but this is patently not true. While we are short of
611 water, we are on a waiting list, in which we will be able to get
612 water. There has been traditionally rented water put on this farm.
613 While most of the water was sold off, there has been rented water
614 put on this every year. And there shouldn't be any problem. But
29
615 cities won't let you know until, that you get your water until they
616 know that the reservoirs are full. Getting water shouldn't be a
617 problem. But the reason why we need the additional structure is
618 because we're changing the face of agriculture the way that it
619 needs to go. Southern Weld County is having all their water taken
620 by the towns and there's going to have to be some changes made.
621 We're not going to be able to use traditional methods. Irrigated
622 ground won't go back to dryland farming very easily. It will do
623 it, but it takes a long time and if we can put it into more
624 intensive, labor intensive use where we are, our intention is to
625 put up a greenhouse. We can't do everything all at once. I mean
626 we don't have the money right now. We do need the labor right now.
627 As we can do it, we want to do it, but in order to do that, we have
628 to have the people available. I work a full-time job. I have to.
629 I have to have insurance and until we can make more money on the
630 farm, quite frankly we need the income. I'll be working primarily
631 on the farm on those off hours, but there are people in each house
632 that we need to make our operation go. It isn't a traditional use,
633 that's true. And if you look at it, possibly the way the Spurlings
634 do, that they've got their 160 acres, if that's all I had to take
635 care of, I could do it myself too. But that isn't what our plan is
636 here. We have an extensive plan that's going to need more bodies.
30
637 That's all there is to it.
638 CHAIR BAXTER: I did have a question while you were talking
639 about the farming. You have a circle, is it a full circle?
640 MR. WILSON: No, it's only about a third left because of the
641 oil.
642 CHAIR BAXTER: About a third of a circle. So that would be
643 the irrigated for alfalfa or
644 MR. WILSON: Could be.
645 CHAIR BAXTER: And then your other area is dryland wheat?
646 MR. WILSON: We have about 110 acres flood -irrigated. There's
647 about 50 acres underneath the sprinkler that could be sprinkler -
648 irrigated.
649 CHAIR BAXTER: And wheat is the balance of it then?
650 MR. WILSON: The balance is in dryland wheat.
651 MRS. WILSON: Do I need to give my name again?
652 CHAIR BAXTER: No.
653 MRS. WILSON: The reason why the numbers don't add up, the
654 pasture was inadvertently left out of the total which is irrigated
655 also. And the other thing is that we're farming the 80 acres under
656 the surrounding farrow properties, they're also in dryland wheat.
657 So it's actually a half section, 320 acres. The houses are not
658 only for the boys. Our daughter and her husband live in the
31
659 smaller house and have since last Spring. The reason that the
660 other house was rented was that was part of our contract also. The
661 previous farmer, it was in our contract that we had to let that
662 person live there until September 1st because of the work that she
663 had done on the place before. That he wanted her to have time to
664 find a place. So that's why we weren't able to take over the
665 dwellings until then. As we were able to, we have taken over each
666 one and been living in it as soon as possible. We just recently go
667 the C.O. on the stick built that we applied for in '96 when we
668 first bought the house. We applied for this one in good faith. We
669 bought the house, the exact same process, we went through exactly
670 everything the same. The same zoning ordinance applies, the same
671 rules that we had everything approved for the first time,
672 everything is the same. We also researched the ZPADs. The reason
673 we chose stick built houses is because we do intend to make this a
674 long-term operation ourselves and we realize that we're still
675 subject to what temporary regulations are and that if we ever sell
676 the place or if we're not farming it with the need that would be
677 looked at. We realize that, but we thought that the stick built
678 houses are much better in terms of, the houses that we bought are
679 about the same ages of the other places on the farm. That it
680 matches the character of the farm. They're just small kind of
32
681 unobtrusive farm houses, but they're not mobile homes and we
682 thought that stick built was a little more along the lines of
683 improving the looks of the community and section under the Zoning
684 Ordinance that we are subject. Says a mobile home or an accessory
685 dwelling. And it doesn't say that you are supposed to try to put
686 a mobile home. And I know that there are accessory dwellings on
687 numerous properties around. We went back through all the ZPADs in
688 the County Commissioner's records back through 1989 and there have
689 been none denied. We have the list of everything since they
690 started doing ZPADs and there has never been an accessory dwelling
691 to a farm denied that we could find ever. Special Use Permits are
692 denied because you are trying to use the land for something else.
693 But we're trying to use it for agriculture. We're not asking for
694 special use. We're just asking for the historical, the
695 traditional, agricultural use for a legitimate accessory dwelling.
696 And so we've put that house in there, we've brought in on iron, we
697 haven't set it down because we didn't have a permit, but we did
698 everything we've done in good faith. I'd like to tell the
699 Spurlings that, you know, whatever we do from now on, we really
700 will try to be good neighbors to you. If you have a problem, I
701 hope you'll feel free to contact us. It has not been our history
702 and we certainly don't want to start now, having problems with the
33
703 people that we live around. And I think if you'll give us one more
704 year now that we're actually farming it, you will see a big
705 improvement. The water control, the weed control, all that kind of
706 thing, that maybe should have been there before.
707 MR. WILSON: We've always had excellent relationships with our
708 neighbors.
709 MRS. WILSON: Yes, this is too bad. But we, you know, we
710 don't want a neighbor dispute kind of a thing. And I think we
711 could settle ourselves face to face a whole lot more effectively
712 than having to take it to the Commissioners. I don't want that to
713 stop us from a legitimate and reasonable use and a chance to keep
714 our livelihood.
715 MR. WILSON: When we spoke with Mrs. Spurling at the Tri-Area
716 Planning Commission, I asked her very specifically what it was that
717 we were doing that was annoying her and she refused to give us any
718 specifics at all. She said, "We'll see you in Greeley." Well,
719 we've heard it finally, but we can't respond to something we
720 haven't heard. I think her objections are overstated. I'm sorry
721 that we've been a problem to her.
722 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: What are the ages of the children that
723 have been living there this winter?
724 MRS. WILSON: Our son, in the main house, we took over that
34
725 house. And this isn't the first time we've ever been up there. It
726 sounds like we're never there. We have another house that we've
727 had in Lakewood, but we've been up there a lot. And our son, who
728 is 24, an adult, has been in charge of the farm when we're not
729 there and he's in one house. The second house has been our
730 daughter, Megan, and her husband, since March, the end of March,
731 first of April. And then the trailer, as soon as we are able to
732 rent that out. We do have teenage boys. We have an 18 and a 16
733 and a 15 year old son, but they have not been living up here. They
734 visited sometimes, but they have not been living there.
735 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Who do you think has been working on
736 all these cars and driving at night?
737 MS. WILSON: Our 24 -year old son definitely does work on cars.
738 The boys, all of them are very interested in cars. They have a lot
739 of old pickup trucks, including an old tow truck. It's not for
740 hire, it's not a commercial vehicle. They do have, they buy old
741 trucks and fix them up and they still have them all.
742 MR. WILSON: He has a hobby. He loves to work on vehicles.
743 MRS. WILSON: He has since he was little.
744 MR. WILSON: For friends and for us, and for himself. But
745 it's absolutely not a business going on there. He does body work,
746 he works on the engines. Absolutely. There's absolutely truth, to
35
747 that, but at 2:00 in the morning, it would be rare. I think that's
748 extremely rare. He has to get up at 5:00 in the morning to be to
749 work.
750 COMMISSIONER HALL: Where does he work?
751 MR. WILSON: He works for G&H Bending in Denver.
752 MR. WILSON: The people who have been living up there till now
753 have been working other places because we didn't have the potential
754 to do anything with the farm because of the fact that it was under
755 contract for the 1996 growing season. 1997 is just now starting,
756 you know. We have half of that shop that we're talking about right
757 now full of seedlings that need to go in the ground that are our
758 crop for the perennials, you know, the akinesia, the oregano, that
759 are going to be the perennial crops. We've been shopping for
760 greenhouses. We're hoping to get that just up in the next couple
761 months. We're just now really starting to do what we can do on the
762 property. And we knew that when we bought it. We knew it would be
763 this long before we could really do anything. But we bought it
764 even though we had to put up with the stipulations because we
765 really want to have a change to make a go of it.
766 MR. WILSON: It's going to be a struggle, but I think if we
767 have the help we can make it go.
768 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: So you're going to end up with five
36
769 dwellings on this and you're going to live in one and the 24 -year
770 old son I assume is living in another. And your daughter and her
771 husband are living in one. So who's going to live in the other
772 two?
773 MRS. WILSON: Okay, the other one is already, my sister and
774 brother-in-law and their son live there. They are also going to be
775 involved with the elk and especially the herbs. That's really
776 going to be our most labor intensive piece. And the other house
777 that we're living in right now is for my daughter and her husband.
778 She's also going to be working full time.
779 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Other than this daughter?
780 MRS. WILSON: The two daughters and I will be working full -
781 time in the greenhouse and with the herbs all the time. We'll
782 have, also, my brother-in-law is going to be working doing herbs,
783 the marketing, all the bookwork, the research. Like we have to
784 keep track of germination rates and how long everything takes. And
785 there is a lot of that kind of thing. The accounting for costs,
786 for moisture content, soil acidity, we have to do a whole bunch of
787 things. And then the marketing.
788 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: So the son that's 24 who is occupying
789 a house right now isn't going to work there full-time, though.
790 MRS. WILSON: As we can pay everybody full-time, somebody in
37
791 there will also be working for us full time. We have another son
792 who is graduating high school that will probably live in that house
793 and he is going to work for us full-time doing the tractoring,
794 irrigating, the planting. We have 110 flood irrigated by two
795 acres. We have the sprinkler system also, which I know that the
796 point was made that we haven't done anything yet and that's really
797 not true. Last year we planted 700 trees for a wind break and then
798 this last weekend we put another 1,000 trees and installed a
799 sprinkler to try to cover that. We've repaired the pivot sprinkler
800 which has been inoperable for the last 3 or 4 years. The place,
801 when we rented it, there was like 23 years of accumulated debris
802 and we have been working to get that cleaned up. Because it was a
803 rental I think a lot of things were just kind of to get by and it
804 really needs a lot of repair and a lot of refurbishing which we've
805 been working on. And we have a feed mill that we'd like to use for
806 feeding the elk. We'll raise our own wheat and mixing, that's
807 going to need to be re -built.
808 MR. WILSON: The other thing, my son the mechanic, is my
809 mechanic too. He repairs the farm equipment we've got. We don't
810 have a lot of money so we've got old, kind of junky farm equipment
811 and it's going to break down more often than the brand new shiny
812 stuff I wish I had, but I can't afford.
38
813 MRS. WILSON: But hopefully in five years we will be able to
814 support everybody there. The thing is that some of the crops take
815 five years to really start giving you a good return. But one of
816 the things we're going to be raising is akinesia. It's a medicinal
817 herb that used to be just kind of foraged and now there's a real
818 commercial demand for it. It's also very drought resistant once
819 you get it going. So that's what we're trying to get in the ground
820 right now, is things that we can get growing with the water and
821 they're drought resistant. Then we can move the water to another
822 patch, get something going there and then once it's established,
823 then that's drought resistant. We're trying to work with the fact
824 that water is really not the available resource that it used to be.
825 We do have enough to do what we have in mind to do here.
826 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Have you applied for water yet for your
827 farming operation?
828 MRS. WILSON: Yes. We are on the list for everybody we can
829 think of.
830 MR. WILSON: And it shouldn't be a problem. The problem is
831 that you don't hear until you almost are desperate for it. But
832 according to Fred Hamilton who has farmed the place for 22 years,
833 he said it shouldn't be a problem. He said this happens every year
834 and you're hunting and scraping and wondering if you're going to
39
835 get it, but you've always been able to get it before. I pray to
836 God we can get it some more.
837 MRS. WILSON: Yeah. We're working against the day when they
838 say, "Well, there isn't any." By that time we're hoping to have
839 our drought resistant crops established. There's a lot of other
840 herbs like mullin and some other things that are for ear drops and
841 eye drops that are very drought resistant that we can put in some
842 places where our wheat is and where we can't get water to it.
843 MR. WILSON: We also plan to apply for a well permit, for an
844 irrigation well permit. Whether it would be approved or not I
845 can't tell you. It's just possibilities. But we've got an awful
846 lot of things going here and we can't do everything all at once.
847 CHAIR BAXTER: Planning had some problems, or at least they
848 were concerned about, and I know you've answered this one already,
849 but that the intensity of the work there really required that many
850 people. You've stated part of that, but in your mind you're going
851 to need at least that many people.
852 MRS. WILSON: Yeah, we'll probably have to have some part-time
853 help during the busiest harvesting times too. One of the things on
854 Planning, I think this might have been a little bit of the
855 confusion. On our map it says 50 test plots, and those test plots
856 are for this year that we're testing to see what does the best in
40
857 our soil. But we have 50 irrigated acres that whatever are the
858 crops that we end up deciding out of those test plots, then we're
859 expecting that's going to expand to a 50 -acre outside, plus the
860 greenhouse, which as I said before, is going to take four full-time
861 people from the very beginning. And we'll have another full-time
862 person doing the irrigation and the planting and the cultivating
863 and so forth.
864 MR. WILSON: At this point, it is mostly a plan. But we need
865 the help in order to make it work.
866 MRS. WILSON: Yeah, the hay is already in. The wheat ground
867 is already taken care of. You know, we have the equipment to do
868 that and we been working on that. We kind of have been held up on
869 this permit because we applied for it, I think the final thing was
870 accepted in February, and usually they only take 30-45 days. We
871 were hoping to already have this set down and ready for somebody to
872 be in. So, we're kind of behind the gun on that. But we can catch
873 up and hopefully have it by the end of the year.
874 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Okay, I have one more question, and that
875 has to do with Mrs. Spurling. If your 24 -year old son has been the
876 only one of your family that have been living there and working on
877 cars, where have all the rest of these people that have been
878 driving up and down the road and so on, where have they come from
41
879 and who are they?
880 MRS. WILSON: Well, for one thing, we've noticed that there's
881 a lot of people out on the road too, that we have nothing to do
882 with, that drag race. You know, so I don't think that everybody
883 that ever drag races up and down the road is our family. You know,
884 and that's certainly not something that we would ever condone and
885 if that's happened, it certainly isn't something that we would ever
886 condone. And there have been other boys out there to visit, and
887 they do have friends that come out there and work on cars. I don't
888 think it's 24 hours a day. That certainly has not been
889 MR. WILSON: Absolutely not true.
890 MRS. WILSON: That's not true, but I'm not saying that there
891 is no cause for, that nobody's ever been an irritation. I think
892 that's probably entirely possible. I think it's not anything that
893 we can't work out by using quiet hours and enforcing that. You
894 know, 10-6 is quiet time, everybody needs to drive carefully. We
895 certainly encourage that.
896 MR. WILSON: It would be out of order, but my daughter's here
897 who has been living there at the same time. And we asked her, what
898 is it that's bothering the Spurlings.
899 MRS. WILSON: Because she's closer to the shop than we are.
900 MR. WILSON: Absolutely, she's right next to the shop. And I
42
901 know it would be out of order, but if she could speak she could
902 talk about that. If you're really interested.
903 MRS. WILSON: She's here. We disagree that's a problem to the
904 extent that it's been presented.
905 CHAIR BAXTER: I think we probably understand what your
906 daughter would say.
907 COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess I didn't hear the answer to
908 Commissioner Harbert's question. I think her question is who has
909 been living in there besides your son, along that area.
910 MRS. WILSON: Well, there are three young men living in that
911 house right now.
912 COMMISSIONER HALL: And what do they do? Why are they there
913 or whatever?
914 MRS. WILSON: Well, now that we're getting the operation up
915 and running, they're going to be working on the farm also. Like I
916 started to say before, people have been working elsewhere because
917 we couldn't earn a living on the farm. But they have different
918 skills. Two of them are in school that are going to be there and
919 they'll be working part-time for us. And then one will be working
920 full-time on the farm.
921 COMMISSIONER HALL: Are they paying you rent then?
922 MRS. WILSON: That came up too with Planning, and we are not
43
923 collecting rent from anybody in the sense that we're renting them
924 out to strangers or anything like that. We've had to make our
925 other house payment until our house closed and we've been making
926 this house payment even though we haven't had any income from the
927 farm. Everybody in the family who wants to be part of the
928 operation has been contributing to making the payment. Everybody
929 in the family, once we get it up and running, will be making a
930 living at it as we get it going.
931
932 COMMISSIONER HALL: They will still be contributing? Is that
933 what you're saying?
934 MRS. WILSON: No. What I'm saying is once we get it going and
935 it's paying us back, then everybody else will be getting the money
936 back. Right now we are all contributing to making enough to make
937 the house payment until we start making enough money on the farm.
938 MR. WILSON: We've got an investment of almost a half a
939 million dollars invested in this. It's got to come from someplace,
940 we haven't been able to make it on the farm.
941 MRS. WILSON: Yeah, we knew that we'd have to carry the farm,
942 make the house payment all together for a year before we could get
943 the operation up and running. That's what we want to do now.
944 COMMISSIONER HALL: So these three other people that, two of
44
945 them are going to school, are helping you with that?
946 MRS. WILSON: No, that's just in that one house. You said,
947 and then my daughter and her husband live in the second house.
948 She's going to be working full-time with us, her husband's in
949 school also and working.
950 COMMISSIONER HALL: And who is in the trailer then?
951 MRS. WILSON: That's a sister and brother-in-law and their
952 son. And the brother-in-law is going to be working full-time with
953 us. The son is in school. And then we are in the fourth dwelling.
954 When, if and when we set down the other one
955 MR. WILSON: The other one is for us.
956 MRS. WILSON: Yeah, the one that we're trying to set down right
957 now is the one that we want to live in because it's right where we
958 can see the elk real well and watch the greenhouse. And the house
959 that we're living in now, which is the stick built house from last
960 year is for our daughter and her husband, and she is also going to
961 be working full-time. That's her only job. Our son-in-law is in
962 school, and he'll be working probably full-time there too, but just
963 to be totally technical,
964 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: And what does the other daughter and
965 her husband do then? Do they work there too?
966 MRS. WILSON: She's working right now for us, coming up to
45
967 work, but she's going to work in the greenhouse. The two daughters
968 and I will be working full-time in the greenhouse and one brother -
969 in-law from the beginning. And my daughter right now is a school
970 teacher and an artist and she's the one that's going to be working
971 that isn't there yet. She doesn't live there yet. She's there a
972 lot, but that is who the other house is supposed to be for. And
973 her husband is a student also.
974 COMMISSIONER HALL: When talked about the water, you're
975 basically saying you don't have the water at this point in time,
976 you've applied for it?
977 MRS. WILSON: Yes, we have two shares, we have enough.
978 COMMISSIONER HALL: What about domestic water for the
979 residences?
980 MRS. WILSON: That's all taken care of.
981 MR. WILSON: That's all Weld Central Water.
982 COMMISSIONER HALL: You've already got the permits for that?
983 And what was the well that you were suggesting that you were going
984 to apply for?
985 MR. WILSON: An irrigation well. I'd like to look into that
986 with the Department of the Natural Resources of the State of
987 Colorado. I know they're issuing some, whether they can issue one
988 to our area, I haven't gotten to that point. I say we have an
46
989 awful lot of irons in the fire here.
990 COMMISSIONER HALL: I also note that we've got an access
991 information sheet for the road. You have two existing accesses?
992 MRS. WILSON: Right. We will be using existing access roads.
993 COMMISSIONER HALL: So there's an improved supposedly close to
994 the intersection there?
995 MRS. WILSON: No.
996 COMMISSIONER HALL: You're not going to use that?
997 MRS. WILSON: The third one was supposed to be a temporary and
998 it was just for putting in the house, you know, just for getting it
999 over there. We never even put it in and we're going to be using
1000 the existing access roads that have been there since the 1920's.
1001 Those are the only two. And we allow all the oil traffic to come
1002 through there.
1003 MR. WILSON: And I'm kind of out of order here, and in response
1004 to the Spurlings' problem with the water running across the road,
1005 I apologize for that, but that was the farmer that was doing it for
1006 us.
1007 MRS. WILSON: Yeah, she did mention that he should have drug
1008 the ditch.
1009 MR. WILSON: Absolutely. He should have cleaned it out before
1010 he turned on the water. Once he got the water running, it was so
47
1011 plugged up, I worked on it for a couple of hours trying to get it
1012 to unplug but it pretty much just had to run. It actually wasn't
1013 out on Road 19, it ran across our driveway. And that was a lousy
1014 way for him to do that, but it was out of our control.
1015 CHAIR BAXTER: And you will have control of that this year
1016 then?
1017 MR. WILSON: Absolutely. I don't mind taking responsibility
1018 for everything that we do, but you know, like I say it was beyond
1019 our control.
1020 CHAIR BAXTER: Any other questions from the Board?
1021 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: Just one. So you don't have, the
1022 greenhouse isn't located on the property as of yet and you haven't
1023 purchased it?
1024 MRS. WILSON: Well, we've talked to four different dealers.
1025 We're just deciding. And we should, when our house closes on the
1026 13th, we'll have the money to purchase the greenhouse. So it's a
1027 matter of it will be purchased in the next month, but it might take
1028 us another month to get it set up, but we need it right now.
1029 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: The 50 acres that you're going to
1030 plant next year in herbs
1031 MRS. WILSON: Over the next five years.
1032 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: Over the next five years? Thanks.
48
1033 COMMISSIONER HALL: From the time you bought this property, in
1034 1996, is that right?
1035 MRS. WILSON: January, 1996.
1036 COMMISSIONER HALL: Was it being farmed from that point on?
1037 MR. WILSON: Yes. It was continuously farmed for 22 years up
1038 until this January. This same man was responsible for the farming.
1039 COMMISSIONER HALL: He was tenant farming?
1040 MRS. WILSON: Right. The previous owner.
1041 COMMISSIONER HALL: Was he living there on the site then?
1042
1043 MRS. WILSON: His son, I think lived there. And he was a
1044 farmer also. And then the lady in the trailer did work around the
1045 place. We didn't know the people before, so I don't really know
1046 what all the situations was.
1047 MR. WILSON: But we were subject to that lease agreement
1048 MR. BAXTER: The lady in the trailer was not really working on
1049 the farm?
1050 MRS. WILSON: Well, she worked for the farmer who owned the
1051 place and she was working on, I know she totally refurbished the
1052 trailer, you know, which was on the farm, so she was working on
1053 that accessory dwelling to get it back up to usable. I don't, but
1054 like I said, we weren't there before, so I don't really know except
49
1055 that it was in our contract that we had to allow her to stay there
1056 for a very minimal fee until the first of September. That was in
1057 our contract. We went ahead and bought the place anyway because
1058 all of those kinds of things were things that we felt like, we
1059 couldn't farm it because the farmer already had his crop in the
1060 ground and had a tenant lease agreement for the 1996 year. Now,
1061 everything is ours. But it's just like we just now bought it in
1062 terms of us being able to do anything with it. And we have already
1063 put in the wind break and we've got everything laid out. There's
1064 a little picture in here, it's a little rough, but it kind of shows
1065 the plans for the place. If we were a year down the road, it would
1066 be a lot easier to say that this is, it's obvious that we need all
1067 this and the help for the greenhouse and things like that.
1068 Greenhouses are very labor intensive for herbs, especially, you
1069 sprout them, you get them up to a certain point, you pot them,
1070 we're going to have to take them out for marketing. That's going
1071 to be the heart of it. Because we want to do enough of it that we
1072 can be self-supporting.
1073 (Begin Tape #97-11)
1074 CHAIR BAXTER: Anything else? Okay. Thank you. I have one
1075 question, Todd. Did I hear you right earlier, I asked them you
1076 were concerned about whether you really needed that much labor.
50
1077 Were you aware at the time that there was going to be a greenhouse
1078 and the total amount of what was going to be going on?
1079 MR. HODGES: Yes, actually staff was aware of that proposed
1080 plan and had that as part of the application materials that were
1081 submitted at a later date from the original application.
1082 CHAIR BAXTER: And staff still felt that they didn't really
1083 think this would be needing that much labor.
1084 MR. HODGES: Staff still feels that with the intensive proposed
1085 uses and the number of people on -site existing, that was adequate
1086 for the proposed use. And that we have not seen any change in the
1087 operation of the site since the existing zoning permit, the ZPAD
1088 that's existing now, had been approved a year ago in January.
1089 CHAIR BAXTER: And that was proposed or completed a year ago as
1090 an accessory to farm and part of staff's problem was that you
1091 didn't see anything happen in the meantime.
1092 MR. HODGES: Right. The zoning permit, it was actually
1093 approved January of '96 and they just stated in their response that
1094 they just occupied that structure, just got CO so actually that has
1095 not been used as a residence to date.
1096 CHAIR BAXTER: Okay, it was sitting empty and they didn't have
1097 the use of the farm. Okay.
1098 COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay, so there's the zoning permit for the
51
1099 other stick built home already there?
1100 MR. HODGES: Yes. It was in January that was approved by staff
1101 in January of 96.
1102 COMMISSIONER HALL: And there was a mobile home accessory in
1103 1980?
1104 MR. HODGES: Correct.
1105 COMMISSIONER HALL: And that also was a ZPAD?
1106 MR. HODGES: It's also for, no it's an old mobile home permit.
1107 It's an MHP for an accessory to farm.
1108 COMMISSIONER HALL: Which would be a ZPAD today, if we
1109 MR. HODGES: Today it would actually be a zoning permit, same
1110 application but different name and it would still be a temporary
1111 CHAIR BAXTER: It wouldn't actually be a ZPAD because a mobile
1112 home is not a ZPAD.
1113 COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, it says an accessory to farm use
1114 CHAIR BAXTER: Not a ZPAD, is that right? Same criteria, but
1115 it's actually called something else.
1116 MR. HODGES: It'd be an MHZP. Or ZPMH. The same criteria
1117 would be used in the zoning ordinance for determination of need.
1118 COMMISSIONER HALL: What does it mean when you, 43.2.3.1 says
1119 one mobile home or accessory zoning permit may be permitted in an
1120 A Zone.
52
1121 MR. HODGES: To date, there is a use that, back in 1980 they
1122 permitted it through an accessory zoning permit. To date the first
1123 accessory is done through a Certificate of Compliance, and it does
1124 not even require the actual zoning permit for the first accessory.
1125 It would still require the building permit and they would still
1126 have to justify the use but it does not require the zoning permit
1127 for the first mobile home. Now, the zoning permit for an accessory
1128 dwelling, a stick built, would still require the zoning permit if
1129 it was the first on the farm.
1130 COMMISSIONER HALL: So what is the meaning of this when it
1131 says one may be permitted in the A Zone, A District?
1132 MR. HODGES: That's so that staff actually is given the
1133 authority to permit that in the Agricultural Zone and
1134 COMMISSIONER HALL: So then after that one it has to go to the
1135 Board.
1136 MR. HODGES: It would generally go to the Board.
1137 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: I think that change took place in
1138 1993 when we were going through looking at some of the zoning
1139 ordinances. Is that correct that took place then, that we were
1140 trying
1141 MR. HODGES: With the signatures. And that's through the
1142 signatures of surrounding property owners.
53
1143 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: Do more of an administrative review
1144 for the first one because prior to that anyone that came forward
1145 for an accessory dwelling, whether it be for a mobile home or stick
1146 built home, had to come before the Board of County Commissioners?
1147 MR. HODGES: That's correct. They used to all come before the
1148 Board.
1149 COMMISSIONER HALL: So what was staff's criteria for approving
1150 the first one?
1151 MR. HODGES: That documentation is very slim. It's based on,
1152 as far as the zoning permit for accessory dwelling or the first
1153 mobile home?
1154 COMMISSIONER HALL: The first design permit for accessory
1155 dwelling last year.
1156 MR. HODGES: It was based on the actual application. I do
1157 have that here. It was based mainly on the amount of land use and
1158 their proposed uses and the applicant states that the existing
1159 three houses that were on the property were then inadequate for
1160 their proposed use and they needed a fourth. And that's basically
1161 what was stated in the letter, of the application, and that's it.
1162 So staff looked at it and based on the proposed uses, and it's very
1163 minimal. This does not go into any detail as this new one does.
1164 So I think it was based on, go ahead.
54
1165 COMMISSIONER HALL: So, What now is different now?
1166 MR. HODGES: That it's a fifth residence, none of the
1167 operation has actually occurred on site that staff can see. No
1168 animal units. We have not seen the seedlings or the operation to
1169 this point, of the proposed firm or herb garden.
1170 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: So since January of 1996, we
1171 basically have had four homes on this property.
1172 MR. HODGES: Four approved homes.
1173 COMMISSIONER HALL: Which means what?
1174 MR. HODGES: That received a zoning permit and was approved in
1175 January of '96.
1176 CHAIR BAXTER: The fourth one was not occupied until recently.
1177 MR. HODGES: Until recently. The CO was just released
1178 recently.
1179 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: Let me ask you this question. The
1180 mobile home that was permitted in 1980 was based on the farming
1181 operation that was occurring at the time and it's a temporary use.
1182 MR. HODGES: Correct.
1183 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: So if the farming operation changes
1184 substantially, then that temporary mobile home permit could be in
1185 jeopardy.
1186 MR. HODGES: Correct.
55
1187 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: Because it was related to a different
1188 farming operation.
1189 MR. HODGES: Right, and technically it should have been
1190 substantiated or brand new, it was lost when the property was sold
1191 or conveyed. At the time that the zoning permit for the second
1192 accessory was released, that permit was justified at that point for
1193 the second time.
1194 COMMISSIONER WEBSTER: That was my question. He already
1195 answered it. Any further questions?
1196 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: Mr. Chairman, obviously this is a
1197 difficult one or we'd all be jumping out there to make a motion.
1198 I'm going to make a motion to deny ZPAD#29 based on staff's
1199 recommendation. I'm going to agree with them first of all that it
1200 does seem like the residents still engaged in the operation are not
1201 principally employed by the proposed operation. They have not
1202 shown adequate evidence in the current operation of the property
1203 that a third accessory dwelling unit is necessary. And I think my
1204 biggest concern however is that if this proposal is approved, it
1205 would allow for a total of four basically permanent structures in
1206 nature, plus a mobile home, which does start looking like a minor
1207 subdivision, and I just don't think that it's consistent with the
1208 intent of the Agricultural Zoned District.
56
1209 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Second.
1210 CHAIR BAXTER: Motion by Barbara, seconded by Connie to deny.
1211 Discussion? I guess I will say again, I'll agree 100 percent that
1212 it's not an easy decision. This one, in my mind, I guess I take
1213 people at their face value or what they say they're going to do.
1214 And I think that as far as the use on the property could be if it
1215 does indeed develop like it is, I don't really have a problem
1216 thinking that you'd need that many to do that intensive an
1217 operation. It's unfortunate that there's been this kind of
1218 conflict between neighbors to begin with that I think got it on a
1219 bad start. I think because of that and again we have this age-old
1220 conflict with this ZPAD which makes a permanent dwelling a
1221 temporary one, it's a real conflict. And yet it's there and we've
1222 approved them before, so I think in this case I will be voting
1223 against the motion. Any other comments?
1224 COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Chairman, I guess I will go ahead and
1225 vote in favor. I do think that we have a temporary use. I have a
1226 concern about making stick built permanent facilities a temporary
1227 use and it becomes a permanent use and how do you get rid of the
1228 concern if there's a change in that process? And I think it just
1229 turns into something where you can subdivide without subdividing
1230 and those that go through the process of the minor subdivision are
57
1231 not offered this opportunity to just do accessory farm uses, they
1232 have to go through the whole process. I think it's unfair to them
1233 to do that. I'm not convinced that the usage is completely for the
1234 property. I'm a little concerned that everybody is going to have
1235 full-time jobs and work part-time on this building, or on this
1236 farm, and it's not one of those clean issues. It's just kind of a
1237 big problem I think.
1238
1239 CHAIR BAXTER: I guess my only comment would be that we do
1240 have that, if that is the problem then we need to change our
1241 process because we do have a process there to allow that to happen.
1242 And so
1243 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: I would agree with that, and that
1244 maybe we do need to look at the process and I also want to say that
1245 this is a different Board than what was present back in 1989 and I
1246 know that we've been trying to look at and change our processes.
1247 And I think you know, different commissioners will offer different
1248 interpretations.
1249 CHAIR BAXTER: A comment? All in favor say aye?
;1250 COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
1251 COMMISSIONER HARBERT: Aye.
1252 COMMISSIONER KIRKMEYER: Aye.
58
1253 COMMISSIONER WEBSTER: Aye.
1254 CHAIR BAXTER: Opposed? Nay.
1255 CHAIR BAXTER: Nay.
1256 CHAIR BAXTER: The motion is carried. Thank you for coming.
1257 With that we are adjourned.
59
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