HomeMy WebLinkAbout851242.tiff 1 BEFORE THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
2 WELD COUNTY , COLORADO
3 Docket No . 85-68
4
5 IN RE: PHASE TWO OF SHOW CAUSE HEARING FOR RENEWAL APPLICATION
6 FOR A TAVERN LICENSE , WITH EXTENDED HOURS , FOR THE SALE OF
7 MALT , VINOUS , AND SPIRITUOUS LIQUORS FOR CONSUMPTION ON THE
8 PREMISES ONLY , ISSUED TO ERNIE LLAMAS , D/B/A ERNIE ' S BAR.
9 October 7 , 1985
10
11 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT :
12 Jacqueline Johnson , Chairman
Gene R. Brantner
13 C.W. Kirby
Gordon E . Lacy
14 Frank Yamaguchi
15
APPEARANCES
16
17 Dan Michaels : Appearing for Applicant .
18 Mike Brown : Deputy District Attorney .
19 Lee Morrison : Assistant Weld County Attorney
20
21
22
23
24
25
851242
1 .
1 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : I call to order the hearing which
2 is a continuation of Docket #85-68 .
3 Will the clerk please call the roll .
4 THE CLERK : Gene Brantner .
5 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Here.
6 THE CLERK : Bill Kirby .
7 COMMISSIONER KIRBY : Here .
8 THE CLERK : Gordon Lacy .
9 COMMISSIONER LACY : Here .
10 THE CLERK : Frank Yamaguchi .
11 COMMISSIONER YAMAGUCHI : Here .
12 THE CLERK : Jackie Johnson .
13 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Here .
14 Mr . Morrison , do we need to re—document this case?
15 MR . MORRISON : Madam Chairman , Docket #85-68 ,
16 regarding Ernie Llamas , D/B/A , Ernie ' s Bar , renewal of liquor
17 license .
18 This matter was continued from September 18th , 1985 , for
19 what is known as the Phase Two proceedings , under local
20 ordinance #102-A.
21 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Okay . I believe both the attorneys
22 are aquainted with where we are in this process at this point ;
23 the Board is as well . So , we will proceed as we did with the
24 previous hearing , and ask Mr . Brown to begin .
25 MR. BROWN : I believe , at this point , I have presented
2 .
1 my evidence and will rest on the initial phase , which was
2 already decided , and also the secondary phase of punishment .
3 I believe we have simply continued it with the idea that
4 opposing counsel will put on litigation , at this time .
5 MR. MORRISON : The Board has been supplied a
6 transcript of the previous hearing , I assume the attorneys have
7 also , is that correct?
8 MR. MICHAELS : I have not received a transcript .
9 MR. BROWN : No , I have not .
10 MR. MORRISON: Well , they should have one.
11 (REPORTER ' S NOTE: Both attorneys were asked if they
12 desired a copy of the transcript of the Phase One Hearing ,
13 both declined . )
14 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Are there copies available?
15 MR . MORRISON : I have an extra one here .
16 (Whereupon copies were presented to the attorneys . )
17 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All right . Mr . Michaels , I guess
18 I ' ll ask you to proceed , then .
19 MR . MICHAELS : Thank you , very much . I ' m not going
20 to make any re-opening statement . I would like to , if I may ,
21 reserve that right to just address the Board briefly after
22 our evidence . I call Mr . Llamas .
23
24
25
3 .
1 ERNIE LLAMAS ,
2 having been duly sworn , testified as follows :
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. MICHAELS :
5 Q. Would you state your full name and your address ,
6 please.
7 A. Ernest Ray Llamas . P. O. Box 472 , Eaton .
8 Q. And your occupation , sir?
9 A. Owner of Ernie ' s Bar , in East Eaton .
10 Q. How long have you owned Ernie ' s Bar?
11 A . Just , oh , a year and two days , as of today .
12 Q. How did you come to acquire Ernie ' s Bar? Where
13 did -- from whom did you purchase it?
14 A . My cousin , June Rosalez was the previous owner for
15 nine years , asked me if I wanted to get into it with a
16 two-year option of leasing it , buy it in two years , which in
17 effect is a year from today .
18 MR. MICHAELS : Can everyone hear Mr . Llamas
19 adequately? I see some people look like they ' re straining a
20 little bit .
21 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Any problems with hearing?
22 Q . (By Mr . Michaels) Would you speak up , Ernie?
23 A. Okay .
24 Q. Would you tell the Board a little bit about your
25 background? Where you grew up and were raised , education , etc .
4 .
1 A . I was born and raised in East Eaton . Went to school ,
2 graduated there at Eaton High. Went to Aims College , received
3 an A.A. . degree . Moved on to UNC, but didn ' t finish there , but
4 I had gotton an opportunity to get a job as a recruiter for
5 the High School Coaching Program for the University of Nebraska,
6 as a counselor also . So, I was there for approximately ten
7 years at the university . When I left there I had been promoted
8 all the way up to Associate Director of the High School Coaching
9 Program for the University of Nebraska .
10 Which, I was in charge of 14 states , of recruiting students
11 that were migrants of farm labor backgrounds and I was their
12 immediate counselor and advisor and placement director, and
13 Associate Director . In charge of all budgets and writing
14 proposals for the university , also , for Federal dollars . That
15 is just a quick summary of my background after getting out of
16 high school and then college and then coming back here .
17 The reason why I wanted to get in the bar business over
18 there is because the place has always had a bad name , even when
19 I was a kid . And , it ' s really not that terrible , if you really
20 have taken the time to investigate , and if you really look in
21 there -- seek in there , see what ' s going on . It ' s not as bad
22 as any other establishment that are the same as mine , per say ,
23 as a Mexican band coming in on the weekends and stuff .
24 I could honestly say that if you looked at the other
25 establishments that are Mexican bands in Weld County , that have
5 .
1 Mexican music on weekends , that their police calls are , by far ,
2 more tremendous than mine . But , mine are directly under the
3 Sheriff ' s Department , so , I have 12 compared to some other
4 places that might have a hundred from the city ' s police calls .
5 Q. Now, what was the conditions of the -- what was the
6 establishment called when you took it over , Mr. Llamas?
7 A . It was El Cocino .
8 Q . What were the conditions and environment of the bar ,
9 at that time?
10 A. Well , when I first went in there , I noticed there was
11 a lot of -- there was quite a bit of harassment , violence and
12 stuff , of people that used to go in there . But , there was no
13 security system there, meaning hired security guards that are
14 licensed through the County Sheriff ' s Department . Which was
15 one of the things I took right away . I went out and seeked out
16 Lyncho Pena Security and hired them , which would be a year
17 approximately this week , it has been a year ago that I put them
18 on staff .
19 Q . At the time you took it over , was it a restaurant or
20 just basically a bar?
21 A. Basically a bar . They sold , I think , burritos mostly .
22 Q. Have you since -- what would you characterize it , at
23 that time as a family oriented place , or was it -- what kind of
24 clientele were there?
25 A . Well , it was , as far as the ownership was , it was
6 .
1 family . It was all family that worked there.
2 Q. As far as clientele?
3 A . Clientele , it was a flip of a coin , you know. You
4 never know really , in most cases , what the establishment is
5 going to be all about until once you get in there . And , how you
6 handle the people and relate with the people and work with
7 the people and try to make them feel secure with the place , or
8 make them feel they can do what they want to do .
9 Q. What type of place is Ernie ' s Bar , now, as opposed to
10 the establishment it was when you took it over?
11 A . Well , we ' ve increased the clientele , I ' d say like
12 70 to 80 percent of the population of people that go there .
13 The people that go there told me they hadn ' t been in the place
14 in over 5 years . They enjoy going there now because they felt
15 secure , they felt nobody was going to harm them and hurt them
16 in any way , whatever the case may be . So , I feel like it ' s
17 a -- I ' ve put a littletast'e of family in there , or a bit of
18 harmony for everybody there .
19 Q . Tell the Board what kind of place it is . Do you serve
20 food , do you have live music and etc . ?
21 A. We serve food 6 days a week . We have a variety of
22 food on the menu , Mexican , also American . We have hamburgers ,
23 cheeseburgers , chips , the whole nine yards .
24 One of the things I ' ve done with the kids too , is I ' ve
25 opened it up for the kids in East Eaton . They don ' t have to
7 .
1 cross that highway to go and buy an ice cream , popsicles ,
2 potato chips , pop , we have it right there where they can buy it .
3 I put in a Pac-Man Machine , just before school let out , before
4 summer started , so they wouldn ' t have to be going across the
5 highway .
6 Q. Now when you say you opened it to the kids , during all
7 hours , restricted hours , during -- just in the restaurant
8 portion , or exactly what do you mean?
9 A . Just regular hours . Normally kids -- I do not let any
10 young kids in after 5 o ' clock . If they come with their parents
11 to eat , the new rule that I have now that ' s in effect , we do not
12 allow, even if one comes with their parents and stuff to eat ,
13 after 7 o ' clock . Because we found it could get you in trouble .
14 People will tend to try and sneak a drink here and there , and
15 you can ' t catch them all . The best thing to do is to totally
16 say no , and eliminate it , instead of trying to fluxuate it there
17 a little bit .
18 Q. When do you have live entertainment?
19 A. Fridays , Saturdays , and Sundays .
20 Q. What type of entertainment is that?
21 A . Mexican music . Live Mexican music .
22 Q . What hours does the band play?
23 A . On Fridays and Saturdays , it ' s from 9 to 1 : 30; Sundays
24 from 7 to 11 : 30 .
25 Q. Now , what is your policy , as far as people under 21
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1 in the bar when the band is playing?
2 A. They ' re no longer allowed in there , irregardless .
3 Like I said , at 7 o ' clock Friday and Satuday . Well , Friday
4 and Saturday at 7 o ' clock , no I . D. , no proof of age , no more can
5 you get in there . Sundays , it is at 5 o ' clock.
6 Q . What -- now, it ' s not illegal for juveniles , people
7 under 21 to be in your bar and restaurant , is it?
8 A . No , it ' s not .
9 Q. How would you characterize -- has the clientele
10 changed then , basically , from when you took over the bar and
11 restaurant?
12 A. The clientele has changed , in my own personal
13 opinion , plus what I hear from outside people is that , again ,
14 it ' s a happy , harmonious place to go and have a good time , and
15 enjoy the music . And , nobody really bothers anybody , but you
16 always have those little hassles that happen . You can ' t have
17 total control , a hundred percent , and I don ' t care what
18 establishment it may be . Even Village Inn ' s have problems . So ,
19 when you get a mess of people together you ' re going to have
20 little flare—ups now and then . I think that I ' ve corrected a
21 lot of those , and have been on top of it as much as possible , to
22 make a happy , harmonious place .
23 Q. Specifically , what corrective measures have you taken
24 to improve the establishment?
25 A . Okay . Like I said , when I first went in there I hired
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1 security . Over the incident that happened in August and now up
2 to this point , I have put on -- I have hired another security ,
3 that I have on the outside , that trades places with my security
4 inside about every 20 minutes , so that the people outside in
5 the community feel that there is somebody there watching and
6 also it eliminates any kind of car theft and eliminates anybody
7 trying to break into cars . It eliminates kids out there
8 drinking . Because if they see somebody with a badge , they ' re
9 going to get away . They ' re going to go drink somewhere else , if
10 they ' re going to drink.
11 Q. Who have you hired in particular? Whar firm is your
12 security?
13 A . It ' s Pena Security .
14 Q . How do you spell that?
15 A. P-E-N-A .
16 Q. And , exactly who is that?
17 A . It ' s -- Lyncho Pena is the owner of it , but --
18 Q. And , how many employees does he have?
19 A . Well , of his staff , Iemploy approximately four people
20 out of his staff . And , what he has other than that , I 'm not
21 real sure .
22 Q . What days of the week and what times of those days do
23 you have security?
24 A . Security on Fridays and Saturdays , it starts at
25 8 o ' clock and there ' s 2 -- 3 on Saturdays , 2 on Fridays . On
10 .
1 Sundays , they start at 6 . On that day , there ' s two also .
2 Q. And , how much does this cost you , to have security?
3 A . A little over $200 a week , or a weekend , for the three
4 nights.
5 Q. Now, there was no security whatsoever when you
6 originally took over the bar , is that correct?
7 A . No , there wasn ' t . The only security they had was they
8 took care of their own , as things happened .
9 Q. Do you know the hourly cost , or is it by conract , or
10 exactly how are you charged for the security that ' s enforced
11 right now?
12 A . I pay $8 an hour .
13 Q. Per security guard?
14 A. Right . Right .
15 Q. These are licensed?
16 A . Licensed security from the Sheriff ' s Department here.
17 Q. From the Sheriff ' s and certified by Weld County?
18 A . Yes .
19 Q. How many employees do you have at Ernie ' s Bar?
20 A. On the weekends I -- let ' s see , approximately -- on
21 Friday , and Saturday , and Sundays , approximately nine employees
22 And , during the week there ' s only three , and that ' s basically
23 because all we serve is lunch during the week.
24 Q. How does this break down , roughly . in terms of who
25 does what?
11 .
1 A . I have four people walking the floor ; and three people
2 behind the bar ; and two people in the kitchen.
3 Q. You testified , since August you increased security ,
4 is that correct?
5 A . Right . I added another one . Like I said before, on
6 Firdays , it was one ; Saturdays , it was two ; Sundays , it was one
7 And , then we went to two , threee , and two .
8 Q . Now, what have you discussed with your security forces,
9 exactly what your policies are at Ernie ' s Bar?
10 A. Well , if an individual now comes in with a parent or
11 what not , and they just want to have something to eat , I advise
12 them to let whoever ' s working know that this individual may not
13 have any alcohol . I ' ve also , just recently , put in now, where
14 if there was one individual with a pair of people that are
15 old enought to drink , that just one person is going to wait on
16 the table , so just one person has total control , that this
17 individual may not purchase alcohol . So , it ' s not a thing of
18 having to run around and tell everybody . One individual waits
19 specifically on the table .
20 Q. Now , is this because in the past , you suspect you ' ve
21 had problems with people over 21 buying alcoholic beverages and
22 giving them or slipping them to minors that are in the
23 restaurant or bar?
24 A. Yes . Based on the testimony that Lieutenant Hayward
25 had said , about the individual that told him they had slipped
12 .
1 him one. Plus the individual back in September. There was a
2 beer in front of him, he wasn ' t of age , he was only 20 . So ,
3 I ' ve tried to increase , whatever I can , to take any corrective
4 measures to enforce the liquor laws .
5 Q . What is the policy of checking I . D. ' s and admittance
6 to the bar?
7 A. Okay . I -- security checks all I . D. ' s to make sure
8 they ' re not fraud , phoney . I have a poster that is in the
9 establishment , that was given to me , that was given to all the
10 bars , from the Colorado Liquor Commission . They look for
11 different I . D. ' s that might be fraudulent , and they ' re well
12 aware of what they can or can not accept for admittance into the
13 bar , showing their legal age .
14 Q. What about the other employees , besides the security?
15 A . They ' re also -- like I said , now they ' re assigned to ,
16 if it ' s before the hour they can come in and eat and so forth ,
17 then they are assigned one individual to wait on a table. Okay ,
18 now, I have also instructed the bartenders and the working people
19 after those hours , as long as you got an I . D. to get in , that
20 if they questioned anything that the individual might not be of
21 age , for them to check it -- for the I . D. again .
22 Q. What are the employees and security instructed to do
23 if they find a minor attempting to purchase an alcoholic
24 beverage?
25 A. They ' re asked to leave .
13.
1 Q. Now, did you have a discussion with the Weld County
2 Sheriff during your tenure as owner of Ernie ' s Bar?
3 A . Yes . Back, I believe November , late November , I
4 believe it was , after I met with Mr . Dave Sauter . They
5 informed me that I should get a working relationship with the
6 Sheriff ' s Department .
7 I made an appointment with Mr . Andrews , Sheriff Andrews ,
8 and myself and Lyncho Pena Security , to meet with him, to tell
9 him, "What can I do as owner of the establishment to keep an
10 on—going relationship with the Sheriff ' s Department?"
11 Q . What were some of the things that came out of that
12 meeting?
13 A. That if I saw anything happening out in the community ,
14 and so forth , that I would inform the Sheriff , that I would
15 call the Sheriff ' s Department to come in and investigate or
16 whatever .
17 If I found anybody they were looking for to go ahead and
18 inform them.
19 Anything to do with working with them and keeping an
20 on—going better relationship .
21 Q. Did you have an agreement with the Sheriffs , that the
22 Sheriffs would increase their spot—checks at Ernie ' s Bar , the
23 unannounced arrival of officers?
24 A. Lately , right after the incident that happened there ,
25 the stabbing , Lieutenant Hayward met with me and said if we ' d
14.
1 mind if they just walked in , and I said , "the door ' s open , I ' d
2 feel more comfortable if you did that , and I think the people
3 in here would feel more comfortable if that was to happen . "
4 They would see the Sheriff ' s Department had an interest
5 in making sure everybody felt comfortable and so forth.
6 Q . How would you describe , to the Board , your attitude
7 about cooperation with the Sheriff ' s Department and the Liquor
8 Licensing Board?
9 A . I try to work and maneuver any way I possibly can
10 to make everything right with the Sheriff ' s Department and the
11 Liquor Board .
12 You know, that ' s my lively hood . You , know, tha ' s bas
13 basically my job over there , so I got to adjust to everything
14 being done right . I need to adjust to that , to make it right .
15 Q. How would you describe the surrounding neighborhood
16 of East Eaton?
17 A . Well , it ' sa barrio . It ' s all Hispanic people that live
18 there . A high portion of them are older people that live there .
19 I ' d say 60 percent retired people live there , Hispanics .
20 Q. Now, would you agree with Lieutenant Hayward , who
21 testified last hearing , in a way that your cooperation in
22 reporting things to the Sheriff ' s Department is a double
23 edged sword?
24 A. Yes . In the beginning , and that ' s basically one of
25 the reasons why we ' re here too , is ' cause I did in fact call ,
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1 and it ' s on record , when I called I said this is Ernie from
2 Ernie ' s Bar , and there ' s something going on outside and I 'm
3 not sure what ' s going on . And , they responded right away .
4 And , then it comes back , on the record that this many things
5 hapened , but out of the 12 incidents , I would say that I ' m
6 the one that called in 7 of them .
7 Q. Now, which 12 incidents are you talking about?
8 A . The ones that were submitted last -- September 18th .
9 Q. At the hearing?
10 A. The ones that were submitted September 18th . I
11 believe there was 12 of those , or 13 .
12 Q. What about the murder on August 16 .
13 A . I did call the Sheriff ' s Department . Somebody came
14 in and said that these guys are going to get in an argument or
15 get in a fight . I went out there , they weren ' t fighting , they
16 were arguing , exchanging words . I went back in the bar , I
17 told them that I was going to call the Sheriff ' s Department ,
18 they better knock it off . I went in the bar and called the
19 Sheriff ' s Department .
20 Q. Is that a neighborhood where things frequently happen
21 that would require reporting to the police?
22 A . Yes . There ' s a volume of people that are there even
23 during the week, young kids that come from Galeton , Ault ,
24 Pierce , from around here , from Greeley , Gill , that are all
25 friends with some of the locals that live there and they do
16 .
1 frequently have their little parties out there across the
2 street from the bar , or next door , whatever. You know , even
3 during the week they have them there , around there , that I
4 know of , that I ' ve seen them out there .
5 Q. What is the bar policy toward serving intoxicated
6 persons?
7 A . Once that anybody has seen that anybody , you know,
8 looked like , you know, they had too much , they are told that
9 they can no longer have alcohol . We would advise them that
10 we ' ll sell them coke , or orange juice , water , whatever the
11 case may be. We advise them to maybe have something to eat .
12 I ' ve had incidents where people have showed up , 4 or 5
13 people in a car , one of them looks too intoxicated , I tell the
14 other 4 , we ' ll let you guys come in but your friend can ' t come
15 in , he ' s too loaded , too drunk, whatever .
16 Q. So then , you instruct your security not even to let
17 them in the front door --
18 A . Right .
19 Q. --if they feel they are too intoxicated?
20 A. Right . Right .
21 Q . How has the problem been at the bar with fighting ,
22 rowdie behavior , cursing , things like that?
23 A . Well , again I can ' t sit here and say that it doesn ' t
24 happen , because it does . You get arguments with people , and any
25 time you get a bunch of people together , and alcohol is involved,
17 .
1 you don ' t even have to have alcohol , you just get a bunch of
2 people and you ' re going to have the cursing , you ' re going to
3 have the slap-facing , the tension builds up and people
4 want to flare it out .
5 We try to keep an eye on it and try to minimize it as
6 possible .
7 Q. Now, did you give any particular instructions to the
8 security about fighting , for instance , in the bar?
9 A . Yes . That if two individuals go for each other --
10 and I tell them that those two individuals can go outside and
11 talk it out , and if they can ' t come to an honest understanding ,
12 neither one of them can come back in . Most likely , we don ' t
13 let them back in . In some cases , I ' ve been a witness to
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14 watching them talk and it ' s been a little flare-up , I give them
15 another chance , and they have not caused any more problems .
16 But , in most cases , we won ' t even let them back in .
17 Q. What about the band , is the hand too loud?
18 A . I don ' t think so . I talked with people in the
19 community and up and down the street up there right around the
20 area of the bar , and as far as they ' re concerned the bar has
21 not bothered them, they don ' t bother the bar . Some of them go
22 there , some of them don ' t . The music doesn ' t bother them. The
23 parking situation doesn ' t bother them and that ' s all in front
24 of their houses that the cars park.
25 Q. What ' s your opinion of what the neighborhood feels
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1 about your establishment .
2 A . Overall speaking , there ' s a few that are saying , well
3 they could care less one way if the bar closes or stays open ,
4 one or two of those.
5 There ' s a couple that are saying they ' d rather see it
6 shut and become something else .
7 But , I ' d have to say at least 80 percent , or better , of the
8 residents of -East Eaton are in favor of the bar staying open .
9 Q. Would you tell the Board what this petition is .
10 A . It is a petition that I took around to the residents
11 of East Eaton . And I sat with them and I told them, "You
12 don ' t have to sign . I want you to sign ^-'l.v if von feel that
13 the bar should be closed because it ' s hazardous to the
14 community . " And , I only got the people that were over 21
15 to sign , except maybe 1 -- 2 people that weren ' t 21 or older .
16 Still , you can see this as the people that live there ,
17 actually live in the community .
18 Q. How many people did ?
you get to sign it .
19 A. There is 39 or 40 signatures on there , of , I would
20 say , not more than 60 people live in East Eaton , and that ' s
21 counting , I think , just about everybody . I didn ' t take a total
22 count which I guess I should have .
23 MR. MICHAELS : Mr . Brown , do
you want to see this?24 MR. BROWN: Yes .
25 (Whereupon Exhibit B was marked for identification . )
19 .
1 Q. (by Mr . Michaels) How important is the bar to you
2 in terms of the amount of invstment you ' ve made , the
3 importance as far as your livelihood , and emotional investment ,
4 as well as why you want to keep it open?
5 A . Well , you know, I have some dreams for the place.
6 Like I said , I was born and raised in town . I ' d like to make
7 it a decent place , where people can ' t say , -- Rag Town , yuck ,
8 I ' m afraid to go there .
9 I feel good in myself . I have brought it , I think , from
10 one level to another higher up than what it was . And , I can
11 see that during the course of the week , during my lunch hours ,
12 where I have poeple from East Eaton , that are Anglo-Saxon that
13 would never walk over there , walk over to eat lunch . To me ,
14 that ' s a great improvement . I ' m going from one step to another .
15 I want to do more things in the community , with the kids
16 especially . To understand that the livelehood there is not
17 terrible . That ' s where you ' re born and raised and you live
18 with it and you go forward .
19 We ' re trying to get a boxing club going . We ' re trying
20 to re—open the community center there . We ' re working on
21 proposals witht eh Federal Government where I would even throw
22 in the matching money .
23 I donate money every week to the church to make the church
24 look better . We ' ve already been able to put it , put a fence
25 around it , do different things .
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1 So , I want it to be a community that everybody ' s happy
2 with, even though the bar ' s there . That ' s my livelihood , that ' s
3 the only way I know that I could do it , financially speaking .
4 Q. Do you have any other source of income or is that
5 your full-time job?
6 A . That ' s my full -- 7 days , 24 hours a day work .
7 Q. Of your 9 employees , how many of those are full-time?
8 A. There ' s only 2 , other than myself , that are full-time .
9 The other ones , you can almost say they ' re full-time ; they
10 put in 30 to 35 hours a week . They ' re part-time classified .
11 Q. Do you ever hire children around the neighborhood to
12 clean up around the area of the bar?
13 A. Every Saturday mornings , Sunday mornings , and Monday
14 afternoons , when they get off of school . I have at least
15 3 or 4 kids in the neighborhood , that go around and pick up
16 the empty cans , bottles , papers , on both sides of the street .
17 They cover the whole block, of the whole front street of East
18 Eaton .
19 They pick up everything . It doesn ' t even have to be
20 anything pertaining to the bar . Anything , any rubbish . And ,
21 I pay them. There ' s at least 4 of them that do that those
22 mornings and that afternoon .
23 Q. What policies have you established through the
24 security and employees , about liquor leaving the premisis , out
25 of the bar?
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21 .
1 A . Well , I ' ve instructed the employees and security , if
2 an employee sees an individual sticking a bottle in his pocket ,
3 instruct security , so security can search them as they ' re going
4 out , double check them.
5 The security double checks , check purses too , going in and
6 out . You never know, someone might try to sneak a bottle
7 inside the premises.
8 So , I try to do everything , and anything possible, to
9 increase the security , and the awareness of my employees. That
10 they ' re not just serving alcohol , but they ' re part of the
11 security staff there also .
12 Q. Have you increased your own prescense at the bar ,
13 in terms of the number of hours you spend there in attempt to
14 correct some of these problems?
15 A . Yes . Now, usually from Friday to Sunday night I am
16 there from -- you can find me there just about any time. Even
17 at night I stay there at the bar , from Friday to Sunday night .
18 And then I 'm there every day of the week , a minumum of 6 -- 7
19 hours a day .
20 Q. Do you have a commitment as proprietor of Ernie ' s
21 Bar to run a decent , orderly , law abiding establishment?
22 A . A very stron commitment . ' Cause again , that ' s my
23 livelihood . Without that , I 'm out on the street , so to speak .
24 Q. And , you want to do it right , is that correct?
25 A . Exactly .
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22 .
1 Q. Do you feel that the cumulative evidence of the last
2 hearing presented an accurate portrait of the establishment to
3 the Board?
4 A. No. To be very honest , I don ' t think it did at all .
5 Definately there was some findings there , that they may have
6 had ; however , I think they painted it more negative , and really
7 didn ' t put any positive, which I think there should have been
8 some more positives come out that did . And , it was all one-
9 sided .
10 Because I ' ve tried to work with the local authorities , the
11 Sheriff ' s Department . I ' ve tried to work with the -- I ' ve
12 worked with the community , doing things with the community .
13 I ' ve worked with Dave , I ' ve met with him once and took his
14 suggestions , and went and met with the Sheriff ' s Department .
15 And , those kind of things didn ' t come out in my favor.
16 Everything was all against me.
17 I ' ve only been in the establishment one year and I think
18 I ' ve grown , quite considerably , in one years time . And , I ' ve
19 adjusted as much as possible to meet the Liquor Codes as they ' re
20 violated and adjusted to make sure that that violation doesn ' t
21 occur again .
22 Q. Have there ever been any sanctions other than the
23 ticket you received on September 16th? Have there been
24 previous sanctions administered to you as owner of Ernie ' s
25 Bar?
23 .
r
1 A . No.
2 Q. For any violations?
3 A. No. None .
4 Q. Is your attitude such that you ' d be amendable to any
5 further suggestions by the State Liquor Authority , or by the
6 Weld Conty Sheriff ' s Department , to try to --
7 A. I 'm open for any kind of suggestions to make it a
8 better place . I 'm not one to -- I mean , we all learn from
9 day to day a better way of doing things. And , if someone from
10 the outside can see some adjustments I need to make to correct
11 the inside , I 'm open.
12 Q. You ' ve had some problems in the past with serving
13 liquor to minors , serving intoxicated people , what do you feel
14 is the cause of those , or the problem with allowing those to
15 occur?
16 A. I think it was a lack of communication on my part ,
17 along with just my employees , and a break-down in communication .
18 Basically , I 'm not getting and staying a hundred percent on
19 top of everything . Definately , those things , more of less ,
20 occurred in some of the cases.
21 Now, I see where I need to have a stronger eye on what
22 actually is going on at all times . And , I need to be constantly
23 moving around too , inside the establishment , outside the
24 establishment , working with my security , my help , Sheriff ' s
25 Department , Dave , and everybody . Maybe I got a little relaxed
24.
r
1 after a while . I better tie my belt back up and hit it again .
2 Q. Are you willing to make those sacrifices?
3 A. Yes .
4 Q. Do you feel it would be unfair of the Board :to refuse
5 to renew your license, at this point in time?
6 A. Strongly .
7 Q. Why do you feel that?
8 A. 'Cause I think , like I ' ve said , I ' ve taken the
9 establishment itself from a negative 10 to maybe a negative 5 .
10 And , I think that ' s a step upward , not a step downward.
11 I have my heart and soul in that place and working as much
12 as I ' ve been working can make it even a better place . And ,
13 the denial of the license would totally be a total slap to the
14 face to me , at this point in time .
15 Q. At this point in time , how do you think your
16 establishment compares with some If the similiar establishments,
17 in Weld County , that have the same kind of clientele? Like the
18 Latin Quarter here in Greeley , The Blue Willow in Gilcrest ,
i9 or the Carrousel , Plattelville , to name three .
20 A. I have a lot of people that like to go out and dance
21 and have a good time , just like everybody else. Everybody has
22 their own pet pet peeve of what they like to do . I have a lot
23 of people that go different places -- that used to go , and they
24 come to my place now and they feel secure at my place , they
25 don ' t feel threatend there no more, and they ' d rather come to
25.
1 Ernie ' s than the other places . They have too much -- too
2 many hassles going on at the other places all the time,
3 compared to what we have over there .
4 MR. MICHAELS : If there ' d be no objection, I ' d ask
5 that the last exhibit marked be entered into evidence .
6 MR. BROWN : I ' d like to ask a few questions before --
7 MR. MORRISON: Would you like to do that now, or --
8 MR. MICHAELS : I have no further questions, at this
9 time.
10 CROSS EXAMINATION
11 BY MR. BROWN :
12 Q. Mr. Llamas , as I understand it , this Exhibit B, as
13 it ' s marked , is designed to indicate the people in East Eaton ,
14 is that right?
15 A. Um-hum.
16 Q. Okay . There ' s a number of signatures on here that
17 don ' t reflect East Eaton , they reflect Eaton Proper , La Salle ,
18 and a couple of other places --
19 A . Yeah , I indicated that there was some people that --
20 that the one ' s that just say Eaton , they didn ' t put East Eaton .
21 But , I did tell you that these people were actually from
22 East Eaton . I can go down here and tell you exactly who is .
23 There were some people that wanted to sign it . They knew
24 I had it and wanted to sign it . Other people I didn ' t let
25 sign , they went ahead and signed it --
26,
1 Q. These are people that came into the bar --
2 A. Yeah. The one ' s though that I -- if you want me to
3 go through here and scratch out the one ' s tha ain`t from East
4 Eaton --
5 Q. I just want the Board to understand that there are
6 people on there that aren ' t strictly from East Eaton .
7 A. Right . But , like I said , at least 98 percent are .
8 Q. And , the manner in which you went about doing that , y
9 you personally took that to each one of the individuals on
10 there , is that right?
11 A . Yes.
12 Q. Did you go alone?
13 A. Yes .
e
14 Q. And , did you indicate -- all those people knew you ,
15 is that right?
16 A. Yes .
17 Q. They know who you are , youv ' e been there for a long
18 time .
19 A . Un-hum.
20 Q. Okay . And , they knew you run the bar and that
21 you ' re trying to keep it open?
22 A. Right .
23 Q. They know your reputation areound there?
24 A. Right .
25 Q. And , they signed it while you were present?
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•
27 .
1 A. Exactly .
2 Q. You didn ' t have any independent person go around and
3 try to make an estimation as to whether or not people wanted
4 to leave it open or not?
5 A. No .
6 I take that back. My brother-in-law took it out one day ,
7 and I told him not to : '. But , he did get one signature on it .
8 I told him I didn ' t want him to do it , I wanted to do it
9 because I wanted to talk to people myself. To let them know
10 that ther ' d be no hard feelings if they didn ' t sign it .
11 Q. So, your -- all the sinatures were retained with
12 either you being present or one of your relatives?
13 A. One signature was with my relative. The other
14 signatures I went to people ' s doors . A lot of people actually
15 came in the bar and I met with them and they signed .
16 Q. Have you asked any of the residents to testify for
17 you today?
18 A. I had them here the last time around , and I didn ' t
19 ask them to come again today , no.
20 Q. But , they didn ' t testify?
21 A. No .
22 Q. So , we don ' t have any idea what they were going to
23 say?
24 A. Not at this point .
25 MR. BROWN: For what it ' s worth , I have no objection
28 .
1 to this exhibit .
2 (Whereupon Exhibit B was offered into evidence. )
3 Q. (By Mr . Brown) You ' ve gone through a long list of
4 things that you ' ve done to change this bar. As I understand it ,
5 you took this over originally on a management agreement back --
6 a little more than a year ago , is that right?
7 A. It was September 1st . I went in as acting manager
8 to see and know the ropes ' of the ordering process , and this and
9 that . Knowing how to actually run a bar .
10 After we -- I had been approved of the license and it was
11 going to be -- it takes about 6 to 8 , I believe , to actually
12 receive the paper itself .
13 Q. Okay . In fact it ' s not until Mr . Sauter met with you
14 and indicated you ought to get it over in your own name that you
15 took steps to do that , isn ' t that right?
16 A. No , that is not true. I had already made that move
17 prior to that. Way before that . That ' s the only reason that I
18 left the University of Nebraska .
19 When I came in , I applied for my liquor license so that
20 I ' d have it in my name and not nobody elses name .
21 Q. Okay. But , you closed the bar for a few weeks after
22 you talked to Mr . Sauter , is that correct?
23 A. No .
24 Q. You weren ' t closed?
25 A. No . The only time I ' ve ever closed the bar was one
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29.
1 time I closed it about 11 o ' clock , I believe -- no, it was
2 about 12 o ' clock , that was because the tension was too heavy
3 in there , and I felt it was better off to close it . That is
4 the only time I ' ve ever closed it.
5 Q. How many entrances and exits are there to the building?
6 A. There ' s two in the front and two in the back .
7 Q. Okay. And , how many security personnel do you have
8 there on Friday night?
9 A. Two .
10 Q. And , if I understand right , one of those is inside
11 and one ' s outside?
12 A. No , they ' re both inside , on each side , on Fridays .
13 On Fridays the population isn ' t that heavy . Saturday night ,
14 when the population ' s heavy , that ' s when I have somebody
15 outside .
16 Q. So , you have three people there on Saturday nights?
17 A. And two on Sunday .
18 Q. So you only have two doors covered then?
19 A. Well , that ' s the only two doors that are in the
20 general area of the bar itself . The two back one ' s are the
21 kitchen , and the other one ' s on the side , way behind the bar .
22 Q. Okay . But , people can go in and out through the back
23 door , is that right?
24 A. No .
25 Q. No?
1 A . Just from the front door
2 Q. Who stops them from that?
3 A. I do, behind the bar. The door ' s behind the r:ne
4 it ' s kept locked . At times I ' ve had people run through there
5 and broken the lock off . It ' s just a little chain lock .
6 Q. Okay . Let ' s try and put a time segment , or let ' s
7 try to develop a time line here as to how you went about making
8 these changes that you made . Tell me when you first put
9 security on .
10 A. Last October .
11 Q. That was after you talked to Mr . Sauter , is that
12 right?
13 A. No . I didn ' t talk to Mr. Sauter until November .
14 Q. So, you had security , at that time?
15 A . Yes .
16 Q. Who was your security?
17 A. Pena Security .
18 Q. And , you had one individual , at that time?
19 A . Yes . No , I started with 2 , went down to one in the
20 winter months , when you didn ' t need more than one person,
21 because the population does not get over 30 people . So , one
22 security could handle it with the 3 bartenders , and 2 people on
23 the floor with no problem.
24 Q. When did you put on a second security ?
person .
25 A. Like I said , I had them in the beginning . I took them
•
31 .
1 off in the winter ; then I put the 2 back on the Friday and
2 Saturday and Sunday . I ' ve always had 2 on Saturday .
3 Q. Even throughout the winter?
4 A. Yeah. And , then I went back to -- I can ' t give you
5 the exact dates when I went back to 2 on -- well , the three
6 I didn ' t put on until ater the incident that happened , the
7 killing took place outside.
8 Q. Okay . So , you went to 3 after that?
9 A. Right .
10 Q. So , that was as recent as a little over a month ago?
11 A. In August .
12 Q. What other -- you talked about other steps you' ve
13 taken to communicate with your bartender , when did that all
14 occur?
15 A . That occurred as much as -- like I said , people give
16 me advice from the outside more so now. We ' ve gotton more
17 strict after the situation has occurred . And , like I said ,
18 you know, I ' ve been trying to up-grade it as much as possible.
19 Anytime anybody gave me suggestions or something happened , I
20 adjusted to that to try to make it a better place the next time.
21 Q. So , the communication with the bartenders , on your
22 policies about serving minors in the bar , when did those take
23 effect?
24 A. We ' ve always had a policy about no minors drinking in
25 there . We ' ve gotton now where we do a double check , standard
32 .
eas
1 situation that ' s in effect now. It ' s been in effect maybe
2 only a month .
3 Q. Okay. That ' s since you were cited , is that right?
4 A. Oh, more or less . I ' ve told them in the past , I ' ve
5 made it more stronger now.
6 Q. So you ' ve -- in the past they were supposed to check
7 I . D' s also?
8 A. No . In the past what their understanding was was
9 that security would check . And , whoever came in would be,
10 more or less , would have been O. K. Now we double check. Each
11 of us double checks each other .
12 Q. How many of the people do you think are from East
13 Eaton there that frequent your bar?
14 A. Well , I would say 50 percent .
15 Q. And , would many of those be the people that signed
16 the petition?
17 A . Yeah.
18 Q. You indicated this is your sole source of income ,
19 didn' t you used to work for Ag—Land full time?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Okay . What ' s the last job you held down before this?
22 A. I had , like I said , I left The University of Nebraska,
23 and I was there ten years with them; when I got here , I applied
24 for a liquor license ; I got a job with what they call the Rocky
25 Mountain ('iraudible) program, as a couselor/coordinator for
33 .
1 Weld County and Larimar County , to put together and operate
2 counseling programs for individuals that were in the migrant
3 stream and working with them in job-readiness skill programs .
4 And , I taught that also, for approximately a little over 2
5 months . I found that and trying to run both counties and run
6 the bar was a little too much for me to handle as an individual
7 So, I resigned the first part of December .
8 Q. Since that time you haven ' t been doing anything except
9 running the bar?
10 A. Just strictly running the bar.
11 Q. And , have you been there -- you indicated you ' re now
12 there every night , before this were you there every night?
13 A. I was there every day . I said I 'm there every night
14 on the weekends, but I mean I stay there over night . I ' m there
15 every day of the weekend and night . I 'm there every day a
16 week, 7 days a week .
17 Q. Okay . I think you indicated, and you were referring
18 to the , specifically , to the reports that were presented at the
19 last hearing we had , of the incidents that had occurred in the
20 bar or around the bar , you indicated that you think about 7 of
21 those you called in , been the reporting party?
22 A. Roughly speaking , yeah .
23 Q. Do you remember specific ones which you called in and
24 were the reporting party?
25 A. Okay . To be frankly honest with you , I can ' t because
34 .
1 I haven ' t looked at that list since September 18th . There are
2 some of those in there that have nothing to do with the
3 establishment , that I know other people have called after the
4 bar had closed .
5 Q. But , you think 7 of those ?
you called .
6 A. More or less . That ' s just a ballpark figure .
7 Q. You indicated too , you have some strict polocies , and
8 I think you indicated you ' ve had those quite a while , regarding
9 people serving intoxicated people . Have those been in effect
10 since the beginning?
11 A. Yes . I never let anybody -- they all know they can ' t
12 serve them liquor if they ' re totally intoxicated -- I mean
13 just intoxicated . What I mean is swaying or whatever . If you
14 have a suspicion that that individual is drunk , you can ' t serve
15 them, period .
16 We ' re , again , open to suggestions of better ways of finding
17 out -- you know, where ' s your limit , where ' s you cut off .
18 Q. So, if Deputy Herring testified , as he did last time ,
19 that he saw people carried out of there who were unable to
20 walk, that couldn ' t have happened at your bar , is that what
21 you ' re saying?
22 A . It could ' ve very well happened . It could ' ve been
23 somebody sitting off in the corner , who maybe got served , who
24 maybe bought a pint of whiskey here in Greeley , drove to Eaton ,
25 went in the bar and drank a beer or two , and all of a sudden
35 .
1 it just hits him. These kind of things happen , I won ' t say
2 they don ' t .
3 Q. Now, as I understand it , your security people were
4 going to check people as they come in to determine whether
5 they ' re intoxicated or not .
6 A. Right .
7 Q. So , all of a sudden it hits them, is that right?
8 A. Yes . I know people that that happens to . They can
9 be fine and ten minutes later they ' re closing their eyes .
10 There ' s incidents also that I ' d say there were 5 people
11 that come to the door and one of the looked to intoxicated , and
12 they can ' t be served , so one or two of the friends take him
13 back to the car because I won ' t let them in.
14 Q. Okay , as I understand your policy with regard to the
15 security people and fights that might start in the bar , their
16 instructions are to break it up , is that right?
17 A. Yes . Break up the fight , take it outside , talk to
18 them and have them calm down , and instruct them it ' s time to go
19 home . But not to just throw th em out in the street and let
20 them fight out there . I informed them to talk to them outside
21 also .
22 Q. Okay . And , if that later turns into a fight outside
23 then you call them in , is that right?
24 A . Yes . On a lot of those , yeah.
25 Q. Can you estimate how many times you ' ve called in?
36.
1 A. Well , like I was saying , there ' s about 7 times that
2 I know of in this past year that I ' ve called in , where the
3 fights have been outside , I ' ve called in on those .
4 Q. You would call in and say , this is Ernie at Ernie ' s
5 Bar?
6 A. Right . It should be on record over here under the --
7 I forget what they call that , when you call in on those.
8 Q. Do you -- you indicated you have some kind of snack
9 foods or something like that , so little kids don ' t have to
10 cross the street , right?
11 A . Right .
12 Q. Do you sell groceries out of there?
13 A. No, we don ' t . It 's strictly chips , ice cream, pop ,
14 hamburgers cheeseburgers , burritoes, tostadas , and stuff like
15 that . Mainly the kids used to run across the street to get
16 chips and pop .
17 Q. Okay . I understand now, at this point in time , you
18 are not letting little kids run in and out of the bar .
19 A . No . I don ' t let them run in and out of the bar late
20 hours .
21 Q. But you have let them come in through the afternoon?
22 A. Yes . Up until about dark, about 5 o ' clock or so.
23 Q. Have you ever called the Sheriff ' s Office and told
24 them you ' d like for them to increase the number of bar checks
25 they make on you?
37 .
1 A. No , I did not personally do that . It was suggested
2 by Lieutenant Hayward , and I said , to me , that was beautiful .
3 Q. But , you never have called and told them to do it?
4 A. No . I didn ' t realize that was something I could do ,
5 to be frankly honest .
6 I met with , like I said , about a year ago or last November ,
7 with Sheriff Andrews and indicated to him that if there were
8 any suggestions for me , to get a better workng relationship
9 going , here I am.
10 Q. And , you -- it ' s a fair statement that you ' re the
11 only business in East Eaton , is that correct?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. There is nothing else there except residential area .
14 A. Residential , church , bar , that ' s it .
15 MR. BROWN: I believe that ' s all I have .
16 RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY MR . MICHAELS:
18 Q. How many complaints have you had from people in the
19 neighborhood since you ' ve owned the bar , about the bar,
20 directly to you?
21 A. Directly to me , I havehad none .
22 Q. Have you heard secondhand , from you employees , of
23 people complaining , neighborhood people?
24 A. Yes , I have. From one individual that lives in the
25 community , she lives , I would say , approximately 2 and a half
38 .
r
1 blocks directly east of the establishment .
2 Q. And , who is that?
3 A. Marrianne Archebeque. And , that ' s just hearsay on
4 what I ' ve heard in this room.
5 Q. Any other complaints either direct or secondhand about
6 the bar gotton to you?
7 A. To be frankly honest , none. Not even , they don ' t
8 like the way you do this , they don ' t like the way you do that .
9 Q. Have you yourself , or have you ever instructed your
10 employees to sell alcoholic beverages to minor or to sell
11 alcoholic beverages to intoxicated people?
12 A. No . You can ' t do that .
13 MR. MICHAELS : Nothing further .
14 RE-CROSS EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. BROWN :
16 Q. You do admit however that those ty
pes of incidents
17 have occurred in the past years?
18 A. Like I said , the one incident that happened in
. 19 September , yes , that they were served . Now, I don ' t know if
20 the individual was drinking it or not . They had just walked
21 in prior to Lieutenant Hayward pulling up and said they were
22 looking for 4 guys that had been in a car down the street . So ,
23 I said , do you have a description of them, I ' d be more than
24 happy to keep my eyes open and call you if I see anybody that
25 fits the description. And , he walked in and he said , well ,
39 .
1 there ' s 4 guys over there and he walked over there . And , these
2 guys had just walked in before he did . And , the 4 individuals
3 were there , there was 4 beers, and one individual , his I . D.
4 showed he was 20 . I didn ' t see the I . D. personally .
5 Q. But , your bartender , you realize, did admit serving
6 the individual?
7 A. He did admit to serving 4 beers over there , he didn ' t
8 admit serving directly to him. What I ' m trying to say is,
9 he was upset that nothing was told to him that this individual
10 was not of age. Again , it was a break down in communication ,
11 and we ' re correcting those right now.
12 Q. Okay. So , he was upset that the guy didn ' t tell him
13 he was 20?
r
14 A . That the people up front didn' t tell him, that ' s
15 what he was upset about more than anything .
16 Q. And , you ' re saying those are the only 2 incidents ,
17 this other incident where a minor was served , the beer was
18 supposedly given to him by --
19 A . I didn ' t know anything about that until it was brought
20 up in August . The 25th or 26th , when we came in here origianlly.
21 Q. And , you haven ' t seen any other minors drinking in
22 your establishment , is that what you are saying?
23 A. That ' s right .
24 MR. BROWN: No further questions .
25
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40.
1 MR. MICHAELS : I would call Lyncho Pena.
2 LYNCHO PENA
3 having been duly sworn , testified as follows :
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. MICHAELS:
6 Q. Would you state your full name and spell that for
7 the reporter , please, Mr. Pena.
8 A. Say that again .
9 Q. Would you state your full name and spell that for
10 the reporter , please .
11 A. My name and address?
12 Q. Yes .
13 A. My name is Lyncho Pena. Do you want me to spell it?
14 Q. Just spell your last name .
15 A. P-E-N-A. And , my address is , residential address
16 360 Spruce Street , Eaton , Colorado .
17 Q. And , how are you employed , sir?
18 A. Well , I ' m employed as security for Ernie ' s place .
19 Q. And , what business do you work for?
20 A. Well , I do security for him and we search for weapons ,
21 search for bottles or whatever when they ' re coming in. And , at
22 the same time , we check so they wont take no liquor bottles out .
23 Q. That is your own business , is it not?
24 A . My own business , yes , sir .
25 Q. What is the name of your business?
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41 .
r
1 A. Pena Security Guard Patrol .
2 Q. How many employees do you have?
3 A. I have about -- oh , let ' s say about 12 -- 14 guys
4 right now.
5 Q. How long have you -- what ' s your experience in the
6 security business?
7 What experience have you had in security guard business?
8 A. Well , I worked a little over 2 years for Loyal
9 Security in ' 78 until ' 81 , first part of ' 81 -- about 2 or 3
10 days in January. And then I started my own agency and I ' ve
11 been working since. So , since ' 81 on my own company , my own
12 business .
13 Q. Are you , and each of your employees licensed by
14 Weld County?
15 A. Yeah , we ' re licensed by Weld County , through Weld
16 County and bonded and everything .
17 Q. What ' s the amount of the bond?
18 How much of a bond do you have?
19 A. I got a $10, 000 bond .
20 Q. Can you identify this photocopy of these documents?
21 A. Yes .
22 Q. What are those?
23 A . This here ' s supposed to be copies from our license .
24 Q. And , it shows the license to Pena Security Guard as
25 well as individuals thereon?
42 .
1 A. Yeah. Pena Security Guard Patrol and Florencio
2 Pena .
3 Q. Are those the individuals that you use to secure
4 Ernie ' s Bar?
5 A. Yeah. Tony Lopez and Pat --
6 (Whereupon Exhibit C was marked for identification . )
7 Q. (By Mr . Michaels) How long have you worked for
8 Ernie' s Bar then?
9 A . I ' ll be working for him since last October
10 Q. And , yourself and 2 others are used as security?
11 A. Well , we started -- we have had more security and
12 it let up and then we started again with more security . So ,
13 it ' s been off and on . But , we ' re still with 2 securities
r
14 Friday and Sunday and 3 Saturday .
15 Q. Okay . And , do you wear uniforms?
16 A. We wear uniforms.
17 Q. Are you armed?
18 A. Yes , sir.
19 Q. What are your instructions and your duties for
20 Ernie' s Bar?
21 A. We ' re supposed to check for I . D. , weapons , and not
22 to let any minors in. In case one of them sneaks in , we are
23 suuposed to let the waitresses know that he ' s a minor .
24 Q. Okay . For instance , how do you check for weapons?
25 A. We check for weapons, we frisk the chest , the coat
43.
1 pockets , around the waist , the belt , the pockets and boots .
2 Q. These are as the patrons enter the bar?
3 As they ' re coming in?
4 A. As they come in. From the door frame in .
5 Q. Does everybody get searched , or just people that look
6 like they might have weapons?
7 A. We search everybody , mans , you know. On Saturday ,
8 I got a lady to search the ladies , just the purse, but we all
9 search mans and the ladies.
10 Q. And , how do you check the I . D. s?
11 A. We check the I . D. s .
12 Q. When?
13 A. When they coming in . We check them as the approach
14 the door and if they look too young , we just ask them for
15 I. D.
16 Q. How many entrances are there that people come in?
17 A. How many entrances?
18 Q. Yeah.
19 A. There ' s only one .
20 Q. What are your instructions as to maintaining order in
21 the way of fighting , etc . ?
22 A. Well , if they start a little hassle, I just tell them
23 to cool down a little bit or else I ' ll put them out . And ,
24 several times I ' ve put them out , but , I ' m warning them right
25 as I 'm putting them out , if they fight outside they won ' t be
44 .
1 coming back in again.
2 Well , they usually don ' t fight once I tell them that if
3 they fight I won ' t let them in no more . And , I 'm at the door ,
4 my self , personally , with that job .
5 Q. What has Mr. Llamas told you about intoxicated people
6 inside the bar , if anything?
7 A. Well , just to take them to get some fresh air , and
8 stand out there on the side of the car and just get fresh air
9 and wise up a little bit .
10 But , outside of that , they ' ve been pretty nice about it .
11 Q. Now, as I understand it , there ' s a security on the
12 outside on alternating --
13 A. There ' s a security on the outside and there ' s another
14 one on the inside and me by the door.
15 Q. What are the duties of the outside security? What
16 are they supposed to do?
17 A. They ' re kind of checking the sidewalk , towards the
18 cars , so they won ' t damage the cars , ' cause they usually like
19 to break in cars , you know.
20 And then , keeping people from sidewalk with the cans ,
21 ' cause usually they go up there with bottles and beer cans and
22 drink at the sidwalk , and they just tell them to take the cans
23 to the car and get rid of them.
24 Q. Since you ' ve been employed, have you ever seen a
25 real serious fight in Ernie ' s Bar?
45 .
1 A. Not that I know of . I ' ve been working there since --
2 off and on since October and I haven ' t seen a fight up ' till
3 now -- inside that is . I seen them outside , but at the same
4 time , never got started inside . We put the guys out , or they
5 going out , ready to go home, after hours , and that ' s when they
6 start the trouble .
7 Q. If -- is there any policy about if you think a
8 situation reaches a certain point of severity , you ' re supposed
9 to call the Sheriff ' s?
10 If a situation gets serious enough , are you instructed then
11 to call the Sheriff ' s or the Police?
12 A. Yeah. Yeah. We suppossed to let the bar know, or
13 Ernie to call the Sheriff and they do the calling , yeah.
14 Q. Have you ever , on the fights that occurred outside ,
15 gone ahead and reported that , called the Sheriff , or the the
16 Police?
17 A. Say it again.
18 Q. Have you ever, on the fights that occurred outside ,
19 gone ahead and reported that , called the Sheriff ' s , or the
20 Police?
21 A . Up ' till now, Ernie has called the cops , the County
22 Sheriff , because they always get there . Sometimes they get
23 there and the fight ' s -- we break it up , you know, and they
24 leave. But , up ' till now, they ' ve been pretty much there .
25 Q. What ' s your general impression of Ernie ' s Bar, as far
46.
1 as what kind of place it is , maintaining order , etc? After
2 you ' ve had good oppurtunity to observe it since you ' ve worked
3 there.
4 How would you describe it , in that sense, to the Board?
5 A. Come again .
6 Q. What ' s your general impression of -- what kind of
7 place is Ernie ' s?
8 A. Well , I'm going to tell you I ' ve worked a lot of
9 places already , and to tell the truth , I like to work at
10 Ernie' s because Ernie, what he says , that ' s what goes , you know,
11 and that place , it ain ' t too much different than the others
12 but still -- I don ' t know how to say it , but , it ' s pretty nice .
13 I like it .
r
14 Q. Is it a particularly rough, tough place?
15 Is it a particularly rough or tough place?
16 A. Well , it ain ' t a rowdie place , that' sfor sure . You
17 know, a lot of people come to me, they say , that it ' s pretty
18 rowdie , that that place is pretty rowdie , I wouldn ' t say that .
19 I wouldn ' t be there, but I mean I ' m working there and up ' till
20 now I ' m not , I ' m not -- I don ' t know how to say it . I 'm
21 willing to work any time there. It ain ' t a rowdie place or
22 anything . It ' s just like any other place that I ' ve ever worked .
23 I ' ve worked from here in Greeley to Commerce City , and it ' s
24 all the same .
25 MR. MICHAELS : I have no further questions .
r
47 .
1 MR. BROWN : I have no objection to this document .
2 (Whereupon Exhibit C was admitted into evidence. )
3 CROSS EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. BROWN:
5 Q. Now, you say you' ve worked a lot of places , from
6 Commerce City all the way up to Eaton --
7 A. Up to Eaton, yeah .
8 Q. And , you ' ve worked in bars?
9 A. Bars .
10 Q. You ' ve always been a security man?
11 A. Well , since ' 81 -- well , since ' 78, for another
12 company I worked a year and 8 months in Erie . But since ' 81
13 I ' ve been security .
14 Q. Okay. Do you and your company
p y do they cover other -
15 bars as well right now?
16 Are there other bars that you have some of your other
17 people work for on security?
18 Where else do you secure?
19 A. I work --
20 Q. Let me clarify the question . Where else do your
21 security people work right now? What other bars do they work
22 in? The people that work for you.
23 A. We work in Brighton, 2 places . Right now, at the
24 George' s Bar , or Ranchito . They call it Georgie ' s Bar or
25 Ranchito , and Efren ' s Bar. And then we work at the Bowling
48.
1 Lanes in Brighton .
2 Q. So , this is basically all you do is work bar security?
3 You work as security at Ernie ' s and at these other bars ,
4 thats all your security service does?
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. You don ' t patrol and check people ' s houses and that
7 kind of stuff?
8 A . Well , lets put it this way . I ' ve worked at the
9 Dave Walker Warehouse , that used the build wire fences and
10 everything in Fort Lupton ; then I worked at the Rocky Mountain
11 Petroleum Company in Commerce City --
12 Q. That ' s right now? You ' re doing that too?
13 A. Right now?
14 Q. Uhm um.
15 A. Just the one ' s I ' ve named .
16 Q. A large part of your livelihood depends on Ernie ' s
17 Bar , is that right?
18 You get paid quite a bit by Ernie to be his security --
19 A. We ' re supposed to get paid $8 an hour .
20 Q. And , you get paid that plus the people that work for
21 you get paid that as well?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. You had indicated that you kind of watch inside for
24 fights there at the bar?
25 A . Yeah .
r^.
49 .
1 Q. And , if something gets started you break it up?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. And , you send the people out to the parking lot?
4 Is that right?
5 You take the people that are getting ready to fight and
6 shove them out to the parking lot?
7 A. No. Just walk them to the sidewalk , not shove them
8 in the parking lot , no.
9 Q. Okay . You walk them out to the sidewalk and tell them
10 to cool off and then you go back inside?
11 A . If they cool off . If not , I won ' t get away from them,
12 I ' ll stay there until they cool off .
13 Q. Okay . If they continue to fight outside , do you
14 let them fight?
15 A. No . No.
16 Q. What do you do?
17 A. Break them up .
18 Q. That ' s outside , you break them up?
19 A. Yeah . Oh , yeah .
20 Q. Then what do you do?
21 A. If they keep up , we just have Ernie call the cops .
22 Q. And , you think that ' s happened in the past that
23 Ernie ' s called the cops?
24 You think that ' s happened in the past that Ernie ' s called
25 the police?
r
50.
1 At least the police arrived , is that right?
2 A. Yeah .
3 Q. You don ' t know if Ernie called them or not?
4 A. What?
5 Q. You don ' t know if Ernie was the one who called the
6 police? You just know the police got there .
7 A. I just tell Ernie to call them --
8 Q. And , they get there?
9 A. Sometimes . And , sometimes they break up and go home ,
10 the guys go home .
11 Q. Okay. What ' s a serious -- you used the term ' serious
12 situation ' , what ' s a serious situation to you?
13 A. What ' s a serious situation?
14 Q. Yeah, what would that be?
15 A. Well , I would say if somebody gets stabbed .
16 Q. That ' s a serious situation that you would call the
17 police on?
18 That ' s the kind of situation you would call the police on ,
19 if someone got stabbed?
20 A. Well , on any one you can call them. I mean , you ' re
21 supposed to call them, you ' re supposed to turn in a report .
22 But , you mean serious , that' s what' call serious .
23 Q. That ' s the one you indicated you would call the police
24 on , if it was a serious situation , you ' d call the police .
25 A. Not really . I mean , a guy should call them at any
r
51 .
1 time , you know, that ' s what I say . That ' s if they don ' t stop ,
2 that ' s what --
3 Q. You were working the evening that Lieutenant Hayward
4 came out there and cited Ernie with a violation for selling to
5 an underaged person , do you remember that?
6 A. I might have been working there , yeah .
7 Q. In fact , I thinkthey used you as a translator to
8 translate for them, is that right?
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. Can you explain how that individual got in there
11 without having the I . D. checked?
12 A. He was supposed to go eat . That 's what he told me ,
13 he wanted to eat . I told him he could go eat , yeah, but as
14 soon as you get done eating , you leave the place. He said ,
15 Oh , sure , sure .
16 Q. So , you let people come in and you I . D. them and if
17 they say they just want to eat , you say go ahead?
18 A. Yeah . Yeah . I just tell the waitresses not to serve
19 them.
20 Q. You didn ' t tell the waitress or bartender on this
21 particular case , is that right?
22 You didn ' t tell the bartender this guy was underage , is
23 that what you ' re saying?
24 A . Well , I told one of them. I don ' t know if he told
25 the other guy . They ' re supposed to spread the word , you know,
52 ,
r
1 among themselves .
2 Q. Can you explain how the beer cans and all the stuff
3 get outside if you ' re searching people that --
4 A. Which beer?
5 Q. The beer cans that end up out in front of the bar .
6 Empties .
7 A. I don ' t know. But , I think kids run around there
8 with six-packs of beer . And , through the door , never go nothing
9 out through the door .
10 Q. Nothing ever gets out by you?
11 A. Oh, no . Not when we ' re working there .
12 MR. BROWN: That ' s all I have.
13 MR. PENA: And , there ' s a lot of them that drink
14 there .
15 MR. MICHAELS : No further questions .
16 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : We ' d like to call a short recess .
17 We ' ll take a 5 minute recess .
18 (Whereupon a recess was had and the following
19 proceedings took place at 3 :05 p .m. )
20 MR. MICHAELS : We ' d like to call Maria Lucero .
21
22
23
24
25
53 .
1 MARIA LUCERO
2 having been duly sworn , testified as follows?
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. MICHAELS :
5 Q. Would you state your full name and your address for
6 the Board , please.
7 A. Bernice Lucero . 17487 East Highway 14 , Ault .
8 Q. And , Ms . Lucero, how are you employed?
9 A. As a cook.
10 Q. And , where are you employed?
11 A. At Ernie ' s place .
12 Q. How long have you been employed there?
13 A. Since May .
14 Q. And , how many hours and days a week do you work at
15 Ernie ' s?
16 A. We start at nine , sometimes we stay there until
17 2 : 30 or 3 , depending how busy we are .
18 Q. What days of the week do you work?
19 A. Frm Tuesday until Sunday , everyday .
20 Q. So , on the weekend nights , the kitchen is open until
21 closing time , basically?
22 A. Yes , sir .
23 Q. Is the main area of the bar visable from the kitchen
24 where you work?
25 A. What?
54 .
1 Q. Can you see the main part of the bar from your
2 position?
3 A. No .
4 Q. Do you have access to a place where you can see what ' s
5 going on in the bar?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. And , do you have occasion , during the shift then , to
8 see exactly what ' s going on and how things are going in the bar?
9 A. Yes , sir .
10 Q. What kind of kitchen do you run , Mrs . Lucero?
11 A. I think it ' s clean .
12 Q. And , do you have anybody helping keep it like that?
13 A. Yeah , I have a . help . My daughter-in-law helps me .
14 Q. Tell the Board what you think of Ernie ' s Bar as far
15 as , is it rowdie , is it noisy? Have you seen a lot of violent
16 incidents there since you ' ve been employed?
17 A. No. I haven ' t seen nothing serious . Nothing violent .
18 I think it ' s o . k. There ' s a little bit of arguments and that ,
19 but they ' re stopped right away .
20 Q. How about rowdie?
21 A. I don ' t think it ' s too rowdie .
22 Q. Is it a noisy , agitated kind of place?
23 A. I don ' t think so .
24 Q. What do you think of the way Mr . Llamas runs his
25 place?
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55 .
1 A . Well , I think he runs it O. K.
2 Q. How would you describe that? What does he do to make
3 it a clean , orderly , well running establishment?
4 A. Well , he has rules , you know. Underage they ' re not
5 supposed to go in and if they ' re drunk, I guess they ' re
6 supposed to take them out .
7 Q. Does he really do those things? Does he try to keep
8 the place orderly like he says he does?
9 A. Yeah . I think he does .
10 Q. He ' s making a good effort at doing that?
11 A. I think so.
12 Q. Do you like to work there? Do you enjoy working
13 there?
14 A. Yeah , I enjoy working there .
15 MR. MICHAELS : No further questions , right now.
16 CROSS EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. BROWN :
18 Q. Your responsibilities are to cook there , is that
19 right?
20 A. Yes , sir .
21 Q. Okay . You spend most of your time back in the
22 kitchen?
23 A. Yeah . We spend a lot of time there .
24 Q. The kitchen is a separate room from the bar?
25 A. Yes , sir .
56 .
1 Q. So , there ' s a doorway from the kitchen out to the
2 bar?
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. So , you can see a portion of the bar from the kitchen?
5 A. Yeah ..
6 Q. But , you can' t see what ' s going on out there all the
7 time?
8 A. Not unless you go out , you know --
9 Q. Not too many people wander back in the kitchen , I
10 guess , is that right?
11 A. No.
12 Q. The waitresses come back there?
13 A. I take the food out .
14 Q. You take the food out?
15 A. Me and my daughter-in-law.
16 Q. Okay . But , you don ' t have too much contact with any --
17 you don ' t serve any liquor yourself?
18 A. No.
19 Q. And , you don ' t have to check any I . D. ?
20 A. No , sir.
21 Q. And , you get paid by Mr. Llamas for working?
22 A . Yes .
23 Q. And , you ' d like to keep you job?
24 A. Yes , sir .
25 MR. BROWN: That ' s all I have.
r-�
57.
1 MR. MICHAELS : No further questions and no further
2 evidence.
3 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Lee , is it appropriate to ask for
4 any kind of closing statements , at this point?
5 MR. BROWN : I do have one short witness I ' d like to
6 put on in rebuttal to the testimony .
7 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All right .
8 MR. BROWN: That would be Ed Herring .
9 ED HERRING
10 having been duly sworn , testified as follows :
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. BROWN:
13 Q. You were present during Mr . Llamas ' testimony , is
14 that correct?
15 A. Yes , sir .
16 Q. And , he indicated that he had called in probably
17 at least 7 times --
18 A. Yes .
19 Q. Called the Sheriff ' s Office regarding services at
20 least 7 times.
21 A. Yes , sir .
22 Q. As a result of that testimony , did you inspect the
23 records that you had before the Commission or the Board at
24 the last hearing date?
25 A. Yes , I did .
58.
1 Q. And , can you tell the Board how many of the incidents
2 that you reported on then , the reporting party was Ernie Llamas?
3 A. There was 13 incidents that I reported on . One call
4 came in the Sheriff ' s Office from Erinie Llamas. And , I also
5 checked for employees , there were no employees of Ernie ' s that
6 called into the bar .
7 Q. And , as I recall , your testimony from last time was
8 that you went through and checked all the incidents that had
9 anything to do with the area concerning Ernie ' s or Ernie ' s
10 Bar , or in which Ernie ' s Bar was mentioned .
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And , then you eliminated it down to the ones that see
13 seemed to have some connection with bar?
re-
14 A. Right . Drinking inside or directly related to
15 Ernie ' s Bar , yes .
16 MR. BROWN: That ' s all I have.
17 CROSS EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. MICHAELS :
19 Q. Would a particular call fromErnie ' s Bar necessarily
20 have been put in report form?
21 A . If a call comes down from Ernie ' s Bar and he ' s the
22 reporting party , the name is given to the deputy over the air
23 and that will go on to the face sheet as the reporting party
24 whether a statement is received from him or not .
25 Q. But , you ' re speaking to incidents that were
59 .
1 investigated to, or --
2 A. No . The report comes id from somebody , their name
3 goes on to the face sheet .
4 Q. So , -- but -- if the department didn ' t do anything
5 further about it , it would not necessarily be on the report
6 form then , would it?
7 A. If the department didn ' t go up there , it wouldn ' t
8 be on the report , no .
9 Q. Right . That ' s what I mean .
10 A. If the Sheriff ' s Office showed up it would be on a
11 report .
12 Q. But , if they didn ' t show up , didn ' t investigate an
13 incident or a murder or something , it wouldn ' t show up , is that
14 correct?
15 A. To my knowledge , if we receive a report we can not
16 not show up .
17 MR. MICHAELS : No further questions .
18 MR. BROWN : That ' d be all .
19 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Okay . It ' s our turn now, is that
20 right?
21 MR. MORRISON: That ' s correct . One approach may be to
22 go through each of the criteria listed and review that , see if
23 there was even any -- if there were even an issue as to any of
24 those listed in 4-A -- I ' m sorry , listed in A through K of
25 ordinance 102 ; and first determine whether there ' s a factor at
60.
r
1 all in each of those.
2 In other words, it could be either a -- well , it was
3 basically presented as mitigating . So , determine whether
4 there was any evidence to show that the incidents might have no
5 not been as serious or their penalty should be less because of
6 the evidence on each of these.
7 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Okay . Is that an agreeable format
8 for the Board?
9 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER : That ' s fine.
10 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Okay . Let ' s take No . A. The
11 serious of the factor in terms of the affront to the public .
12 MR. MORRISON: Remember , that ' s in relation to
13 those factors that you previoulsy made finding on .
14 CHAIRMAN JONHSON: You mean the service of a minor ,
15 serving intoxicated persons , and rowdiness within the --
16 MR. MORRISON : Yes . Both within the establishment
17 and the effect of the noise , rowdiness , or disturbance on the
18 immediate area; which is substantially as a result of operation
19 of the premises .
20 COMMISSIONER LACY: Looking at the violations I find
21 2 violations to minors that can be documented . One , testimony
22 from, or a comment from a minor to a deputy that friends/parents
23 gave him a drink. My thoughts on that are that -- that ' s a
24 problem that I ' m not sure that any bar doesn ' t have.
25 A minor , 20 years old , found in the bar with a beer in
61 .
1 front of him by a deputy . I think that has a serious effect to
2 it in the sense that if there were 4 people sitting at the
3 table and 3 beers , then I could say he was not served . No way
4 are we going to believe that the fourth person wasn ' t served a
5 beer . So, that would be, in my mind , a violation .
6 I have a problem with the seriousness and the testimony on
7 the intoxicated people being brought out of the bar ; in that
8 this testimony is that these people became intoxicated in this
9 bar . I 'm not sure that I can go along with that totally , all
10 though I ' ve seen this happen . I know that people will be in a
11 bar drinking and have 3 drinks one night and be totally out of
12 it , and have 7 drinks the next night and not have a problem.
13 And , it ' s pretty hard , in effect , to prove totally , that the
14 intoxicated persons were served in the bar .
15 So , that ' s my comment on those two , I think. And , those
16 are the two offences right now that I can see have been brought
17 to our attention as far as the testimony is concerned .
18 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : I think , in terms of talking of
19 the affront to the public , maybe we need to define exactly what
20 we mean by that . I presume we mean to those patrons of the
21 bar who might be offended by it , those things , as well as the
22 surrounding neighborhood . Would that be a fair understanding
23 of that term?
24 MR . MORRISON: Yes .
25 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Other comments with regard to that
62 .
1 No . A.
2 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: I guess I would make a comment
3 in relation to that . I think that Mr . Llamas made a statement
4 that it was -- the bar had kind of a bad name going back before
5 he had ; while he ' s had it , and he thought he was trying to
6 improve the bad name of that . And , he also stated , evidently
7 with that type of a bar there ' s a certain amount of -- he used
8 the word "violence. " I think that is a definate affront to the
9 public .
10 It ' s been demonstrated with the written statements ,
11 Sheriff ' s reports , and everything else , that there has been
12 numerous fights , serving of minors . The security for him even
13 said that there were numerous fights .
14 So , I guess the seriousness of the factor-- I ' d say it
15 was pretty serious.
16 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Other comments?
17 COMMISSIONER LACY: I have a question to that , Gene.
18 I don ' t think there was considerable testimony that there were
19 fights in the bar . And , I guess my situation is that I feel
20 that a good amount of the problem tha ' s around there is brought
21 there by the bar , by the business being where it ' s at . But ,
22 I don ' t know if it ' s necessarily because of what ' s been served
23 or what ' s happened in the bar , what happens outside . That
24 would be my thoughts on that .
25 I agree that it ' s an affront to the public in the area
63 .
1 because the bar is in East Eaton . But the bar has been in
2 East Eaton for many , many , many years .
3 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: I would stand corrected . I
4 meant to say , related to the bar , whether it ' s inside or outside.
5 So , I would stand corrected there , Gordon . But , I guess further
6 comment on that is that just because it ' s been there , if it ' s
7 a problem, it ' s not really any reason to allow it .
8 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: As I recall , there was some
9 testimony that fights occurred inside also , as well as outside .
10 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Other comments on A?
11 We can , I think, go through these and balance I guess.
12 MR . MORRISON : Right .
13 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Corrective actions taken by the
14 licensed holder . Comments with regard to that?
15 My own observation is that there have been those , but I
16 think there ' s room for more. I guess the testimony , in my
17 opinion , was that he was a little bit lay in terms of some of
18 those corrective actions , and I think that ' s something the
19 Board needs to be aware of .
20 Mr . Llamas indicated he is willing to pursue those , but I
21 think that the effect of that is one that requires a lot of
22 follow through and I think that is something that I would bear
23 in mind as I make my consideration .
24 COMMISSIONER KIRBY : I would concur with that . I
25 think he ' s shown possibly some corrective actions , very recently,
64.
1 and the intent to correct , as he testified today , seemed to be
2 there . But , it seemed like it was a little slow in coming ,
3 possibly .
4 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Other comments?
5 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER : I would add to that . I guess
6 the main problem I have with that is that when we had a probable
7 cause hearing , I think Mr . Llamas was aware that we were
8 watching it , that things were very -- things could be very
9 serious and there was a violation that did occur up there. And .
10 I 'm sure that nobody ' s perfect , security or anybody else , but
11 I would have certainly been watching if it would ' ve been me .
12 And so , I think there have been corrective actions taken but
13 I 'm not sure there was enough. And , I 'm not even confident
14 they were soon enough , nor even would they be strong enough
15 in the future .
16 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : That almost goes to No . C , I think
17 in terms of prior violations , offences , and occurrances at the
18 premises , and the effectivness of prior corrective action .
19 MR. MORRISON: I think I should clarify that . I
20 think that ' s intended to cover that area that ' s not covered in
21 the scope of this hearing . I mean , we are talking about the
22 last year . Mr . Llamas doesn ' t have any history , any substantial
23 history , prior to that time.
24 I think the other factors cover his current operation . But
25 this would be the history , whether he has previously been asked
65 .
1 to shut the bar down and things like that .
2 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Oh , okay . I see what you ' re
3 saying . All right .
4 COMMISSIONER LACY: Is that on both C and D?
5 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Prior violations and offences by
6 the licensee . I think --
7 MR. MORRISON : You can ' t count the violations that
8 you found as agravating . I mean , those are there. This is --
9 if he had been operating 5 years and had a history , which is
10 not the evidence.
11 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Okay . Violation , offence , or
12 occurance as a repeated course of conduct , or 'as a single event .
13 That , I think , we can consider over a period of a year.
14 MR. MORRISON : Yeah.
15 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Comments from the Board?
16 Observations?
17 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Well , I think we have been shown
18 with reasonable testimony that there are various violations
19 in the past year . Over a fairly broad time period .
20 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Likelihood of recurrence .
21 I guess my own feeling there is that that ties very closely
22 to B, and I think , Gene , your comments about the occurance
23 after even the hearing was in process is one that gives me some
24 concern . It should be considered by the Board .
25 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER : I ' m going to touch on
66 .
1 something . I guess I would havea concern of our security
2 set—up .
3 Now, I am certainly not going to -- I 'm going to try not
4 to be negative with Mr . Pena ' s firm. But , if I was running a
5 business and I had someone that I had in my employment that
6 could -- his performance would hinge upon my staying in
7 business , and that business did not , or that person , or his
8 people did not live up to what I needed ; if they were not
9 performing the way they needed to to protect my business , I
10 guess maybe , I would be looking at a different business , or
11 I would ask them for directions . I would ask for more people ,
12 different people , or something . I would think that that would
13 have to be part of management of getting the right people for
14 the right job .
15 They are licensed and they are bonded and maybe that ' s
16 where we are a little bit lacking ; some of the qualifications
17 and some of the training and that sort of thing .
18 I don ' t feel real good with the steps that Mr . Llamas
19 has taken as far as his security , whether it ' s adequate people
20 or properly trained people . So , then I would feel there could
21 be a very good likelihood of reoccurrences or even things
22 getting out of hand .
23 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Other comments?
24 I don ' t know how we talk about all circumstance surrounding
25 the violation , offense , or occurrence .
67.
r
1 MR. MORRISON : Well , the intent is not to make
2 judgement on the facts but , for instance, in the case of the
3 minor , you can consider -- it ' s a violation , whether you serve
4 him directly or not , in my opinion of the law, but if his
5 parents pass it under the table to him, the circumstances
6 differ from where he goes up to the bar and orders it himself
7 and can barely see over the edge .
8 So , that ' s a way of explaining the facts , reasons , or
9 excuses to why something might have occured . Even though it ' s
10 a violation , it ' s not as bad a violation as some other kinds.
11 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: You might also, on that .
12 consideration , be the concept of the young people in the
13 neighborhood who might be provocative outside the bar and
14 creating some of the incidents .
15 MR. MORRISON: Right .
16 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Other comments?
17 Willfulness of the violations , offenses or occurrences .
18 MR. MORRISON : That , I think , has to do with the
19 degree of control that the licensee would have . That is ,
20 willfulness is either bordering on intentional or knowing that
21 something is likely to happen and still not taking steps to
22 correct it .
23 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Comments?
24 COMMISSIONER LACY: Well , I guess I again come back
25 to the situation where you can check everybody ' s I . D as they
68.
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1 come in the door and some are legal and some of them are not .
2 And , some people can walk into a place , and we heard the
3 comment , if they looked like they were too young they were
4 checked, and there are people that are too young that look
5 older that walk into those places. I guess my thoughts on that
6 would be that it ' s a pretty tough situation to check that .
7 I don ' t think there ' s a willfulness in letting people
8 just walk in and do it . I think the testimony was that at a
9 certain time of the night , the evening , you know, then families
10 or minors were not allowed in the bar . So , I think there ' s
11 some -- I think there lacks . I don ' t disagree with that . I
12 don ' t disagree with that at all . But , I don' t think it ' s a
13 willfull situation of just violating the law, doing it
14 purposely .
15 We look at two offenses in a year ' s time that actually
16 are verified .
17 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Other comments?
18 From the time the license has been held by the licensee --
19 MR . MORRISON : That ' s a history kind of thing again .
20 I .mean , if the license has been held 30 years and this is the
21 first time they ' ve ever been in question , that would certainly
22 be a mitigating circumstnace .
23 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Previous sanctions .
24 Same sort of historical perspective?
25 MR . MORRISON : Yes .
69 .
1 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Other factors making the situation
2 unique to the licensee or premises subjected to discipline.
3 COMMISSIONER LACY: Would that be location?
4 MR. MORRISON: Could be.
5 COMMISSIONER LACY : Residential area?
6 MR. MORRISON: Certainly .
7 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : I don ' t know how well this is
8 working for us . I think this is --
9 MR. MORRISON: Well , it ' s somewhat agonizing to go
10 through each of these .
11 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Well , I think it helps us collect
12 our thoughts where maybe someone is ready to make a statement
13 or even possibly a motion .
14 Does the Board have any additional comments they want to
15 make about these A through K factors , or any questions that we
16 might like to ask any of the witnesses? I presume that ' s our
17 perogitive , as well?
18 MR . MORRISON : Yes , it is . Or , you could ask for
19 concluding statement or reccomendations as to sentencing .
20 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : I thought I had done that , but
21 perhaps it wasn ' t understood .
22 MR. MICHAELS : I didn ' t hear you say it .
23 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Okay. If the Board is willing ,
24 I would be happy to entertain concluding statements from each
25 of the attorneys present , if you wish to make one. Is that
70.
1 acceptable?
2 MR. MORRISON: Yes .
3 MR. BROWN : In sitting and listening to the comments
4 that have been made thus far by the Board , I think that you 're
5 picking up on a number of things that I 'd like to point out
6 about the incidents that we ' ve brought to you.
7 One of my concerns is that , all though the evidence that
8 we ' ve presented is essentially what we verified to you . You
9 have to understand too that we ' re talking about a year time
10 period . The incidents that were verified as far as service
11 of minors were two events when officers just happened to be
12 in there and made these observations . Once they were looking
13 for individuals who had been in a car , the other , I think the
14 testimony was , they were on a bar check or something of that
15 sort .
16 So , even though those incidents have been brought to your
17 consideration , I would ask you to keep an open mind and
18 remember that these were just two checks that were made . And ,
19 there weren ' t a whole lot of bar checks made other than the
20 times the officers were called out to investigate another crime ,
21 and they were there investigating that specific crime that was
22 testified to by Deputy Herring .
23 The evidence was that , and I think you have a transcript
24 of the hearing and I don ' t have that , so hopefully you can
25 review it and it ' ll be more accurate than what my recollection
71 .
1 was of the testimony two weeks ago.
2 But , the major problems that appears to be in the area
3 are the residents concern for the image of the communitiy ,
4 which was brought out by not only individuals from the
5 community , but by an individual who was from the housing board
6 who came and testified concerning his conversations with
7 people in the area and his long-standing relationship with the
8 people in the area and their concerns for the image of the
9 community.
10 I ' d also point out that the location of the bar is a real
11 problem. Here, we have the only business in a residential
12 area , and what ' s it turn out to be? It turns out to be the
13 bar.
14 I 'm not particularly impressed by the situation where he
15 says , well , he ' s added cookies , chips and pop and ice cream
16 and that sort of stuff , so that the kids don ' t have to cross
17 the street . I think that I ' d prefer that my kids cross the
18 street than go into a bar . I maybe a little different , but
19 I ' d prefer that they go to a 7-11 , or whatever maybe available
20 close by rather than go into a bar and buy food and snacks .
21 So , I ' m not -- personally , I 'm not impressed by that particular
22 statement .
23 As the Board has already indicated , the changes that have
24 been made by Mr. Llamas are changes that -- most of them have
25 occurred most recently , when he ' s had the major problem with
72 .
1 this that ' s come about . We had the question of whether or not
2 he' s going to be renewed , when he actually -- there ' s a
3 probable cause here , and he has to come before the Board and
4 justify what he ' s been doing to run this place properly and
5 what he ' s doing to correct problems .
6 These are things that he could ' ve done all along . He could
7 have had better communication with the bar tender , his
8 waitresses . He could have a policy of instead of just checking
9 at the door , he could have had them check everyone that ' s
10 served . That ' s the person that ' s responsible, the person who ' s
11 going to be serving .
12 The security guards , as they represent the situation to
13 be at this time , may check them at the door and say go ahead
14 and get some food . He may go sit down and say ' I ' d like to
15 order a beer . ' The bar tender doesn ' t check him so they serve
16 him.
17 I think when you ' re serving liquor, you ' ve got to be
18 checking . You ' ve got to check when you serve that liquor . Is
19 that person of age or under age?
20 The testimony concerning carrying drunks out of the bar .
21 And , we heard the testimony of people here today , whose
22 livlihood depends on the operation of the bar . I ' d ask you
23 to consider that when you think about the way their testimony
24 came out . What they said may or may not be slandered based
25 upon , ' I ' d like to continue to work , I ' d like the bar to stay
73 .
1 open . I ' m the security guard there , I 'm responsible for some
2 of the stuff that goes on , so I don ' t want to make it look that
3 bad . '
4 So , I ' d ask the Board to keep that in mind when they
5 evaluate what the testimony was .
6 The other people -- Mr. Llamas certainly would like it
7 open . He indicates it ' s his only livelihood now, and I
8 understand that ' s a problem for the Board . They don ' t want to
9 take somebody ' s livelihood away , of the people that work there ,
10 and they testified here today too . And , that ' s a problem for
11 the Board .
12 In looking at the entire impact this thing has on the
13 community , which is important . The number of violations we
14 have , the number of times the reporting party was not Mr.
15 Llamas . We have one incident in which the reports that were
16 testified to by Deputy Herring , indicating that Mr . Llamas was
17 the reporting party .
18 I would suggest that if you ' re operating a bar and you' re
19 having that kind of problems the way you solve fights in your
20 bar is to report them. Let people know that you report it .
21 The Sheriff ' s Office comes out , the pick them up , they arrest
22 them , they take them in and they face whatever the law can
23 throw at them. That handles a lot of those situations . That
24 gets rid of the reputation that a bar may have for being rowdie ,
25 for being a place that is dangerous , for giving a bad image to
74 .
1 the community and the bar . That ' s the way you handle it . You
2 cooperate with the Sheriffs . Now, it may hurt your business ,
3 it may not be the monetary thing to do , but it ' s certainly
4 the way to change the image of the bar ; to do the things that
5 Mr . Llamas indicated he wanted to do now. That was to upgrade
6 the bar , but , he ' s not done that . He ' s not been the reporting
7 party . He ' s not run the bar in the way that it would be
8 benificial to the community . Provide a nice eating place for
9 the local residents to go .
10 As Deputy Herring indicated , the contacts that they ' ve
11 made there at the bar , there are very few that involve local
12 people being in a scuffle. I don ' t remember the exact figures ,
13 I think you ' ll have those in the transcript , but there were
14 very very few incidents where a report was made which involved
15 local people. The bar is not necessarily servicing the needs
16 of the local community . Lots of them were from as far away as
17 La Salle ; a lot of them from Greeley .
18 So , those type of situations -- is the bar needed out
19 there?
20 Is it wanted by the community?
21 With regard to his petition showing the wants and wishes
22 of local residents of East Eaton , there are a number of people
23 on there I would suggest are not from East Eaton . I just saw
24 that , so there ' s no way for me to check or verify the petition .
25 Also , I would question the way the petition was obtained .
75 .
1 Mr. Llamas goes to these people and says ' Sign it , ' while
2 they ' re there . It might be somewhat intimidating . I ' d ask
3 you to keep that in mind when you review that kind of evidence .
4 The indications that Deputy Herring , again , gave as to his
5 conversations with the local residents seem to indicate that
6 most of them would prefer the bar be something else. Some of
7 them prefer that the bar change ownership and change the manner
8 in which it ' s run. Very few want it continued in the manner
9 that it is . So , I would suggest to you that an overwhelming
10 majority of the people in the area would like to see major
11 changes in the bar ; if not , it ' s closure . Suggestions were a
12 grocery store , things of that type .
13 I ' d ask you to consider all the evidence and the fact that
14 officers can not be there daily . They can not sit there and
15 look for violations . They have to depend on the owners and
16 operators of the bar to police themselves , and only when they
17 get reports do they actually go up there other than just routine
18 bar checks , which don ' t occur very often.
19 The other thing that you picked up on is location .
20 Aside from being a residential area , it ' s quite a ways from the
21 center of Weld County . We ' ve got the Sheriff ' s Deputies having
22 to make runs up there , so they can ' t control it very often .
23 It ' s also a strain on Eaton . We had Traci Edens here to
24 testify concerning what he had had to do . The fact that he had
25 to come over and help out sometimes when the Sheriff ' s Deputies
76.
1 couldn' t get over there right away . Or , he ' d recieve a report
2 and have to go over there and do something . The treatment he
3 got from bar patrons when he pulled up . Things being thrown
4 at him, cans being thrown and things of that sort .
5 So, I ' d ask you to consider all that . In just the general
6 manner in which the bar and it ' s surrounding area run . He ' s
7 responsible not only for the interior of the bar , but for things
8 that are in his controls ; such as the parking lot , the
9 sidewalks , all of the things that happen to the adjacent area
10 to the bar .
11 And , I ' d ask you to consider that and all of the testimony
12 that we ' ve had concerning drunks being carried out and placed
13 in cars , people that couldn ' t walk. And , I can suggest to you
14 that that didn ' t all happen somewhere else. I can understand
15 that certain ones of those people were drunk or intoxicated
16 when they got there , but not all of them, I would suggest to
17 you.
18 I ' d ask you to consider all those things . I suggest to you
19 that some kindof drastic action is necessary . And , we would
20 suggest that this license not be renewed , at this time.
21 Thank you .
22 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Mr . Michaels .
23 MR. MICHAELS : Thank you . I ' d like to thank the Board
24 too on behalf of Mr . Llams for your patience in hearing this
25 matter .
r
77 .
1 I think , in reading between the lines a little bit , what
2 we saw was amirder last summer , August 16th, that happened
3 20 feet -- 25 feet from the front doorstep of Ernie ' s Bar . And ,
4 the link to Ernies Bar is tenuous, at best . I think that
5 brought a lot of attention to the situation . And , since that
6 time , a lot of involvement with the authorities and attention
7 paid to Mr. Llamas ' bar .
8 Now, the evidence presented at the last hearing which is
9 relevant only at this point in time is to the number of
10 offenses during the renewal period . A lot of it , as even the
11 prosecutor , or Mr. Brown admits , is it may or may not have
12 originated there . Frankly , we really don ' t know how substantial
13 the entire volume of that evidence was to Mr . Llamas ' bar .
14 But , I don ' t think that that is particularly relevant because
15 even Mr . Llamas said he ' s had problems in the past .
16 I think what ' s important , or what I would ask the Board
17 to consider exactly his situation . What is he doing about the
18 problems? And , I think you ' re looking at a man whose only owned
19 that bar , at least for the time that most of these offenses
20 were alledged to have occurred , less than a year .
21 Now, at the time that he took it over there was no
22 security system in place . He put on Mr . Pena. Mr . Pena then
23 had to add , at considerable expense to the bar , extra people on
24 crowded nights . They now have a policy where on the busiest
25 night there ' s 2 inside and one outside , on an alternating
78.
1 basis. That ' s a distinct improvement over what happened
2 before , the way the bar was run at that time .
3 I think Mr. Llamas is learning by experience a little
4 bit . And , the Board , it ' s suggested in Ordinance 102 that
5 that ' s a consideration . How -- the length of time the license
6 has been held by the licensee . And , there was sufficient
7 testimony today that original policies maybe didn ' t work as
8 well as they should ' ve . I don' t know how else you do , except
9 learn by experience.
10 He ' s instituted new policies and , I think , shows an
11 openness to make suggested changes , be it from the Weld County
12 Sheriff ' s Office or Mr. Sauter of the Liquor Commission . I
13 think that ' s important , I really do , that you look at how long
14 Mr . Llamas has owned the bar. Also , his commitment to the
15 community . The number of employees he ha- . There are two
16 other full-time employees that are entirely dependant on their
17 livlihood . He ' s an area --was born there , raised there . I
18 think he shows a strong commitment to East Eaton . I was there ,
19 I had lunch there. I thought it was a pleasant place . It
20 was a clean , pleasant place . The food was g000d .
21 There just isn ' t a 7-11 to walk to across the street for
22 the kids to go to buy candy . There isn ' t one there . What ' s
23 there is the bar .
24 Circumstances that should be considered , unique to
25 licensee or the premise . Historically this bar ' s been in place ,
79 .
1 it has served a particular type of clientele , and it ' s always
2 been a bar in this neighborhood . I think that it ' s a better
3 bar now, and we ' ve shown that .
4 We ' re asking the Board to renew the license and I think
5 we deserve to have in renewed , based on the changes that he ' s
6 made , that attitude he has , the other circumstances surrounding
7 the particular incidents that have occurred . He ' s never had
8 a sanction before . So , I think it would be unfair for the
9 Board , at this point in time , to refuse to renew the license ,
10 in effect , during Mr. Llamas ' very first year of operation of
11 the premises .
12 I think it ' s a better bar than it was and we ask for the
13 chance to prove that even more .
14 Thank you .
15 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Is the Board in a frame-of-mind
16 to make a decision , at this time?
17 COMMISSIONER LACY: Madam Chairman , I would like --
18 I 'm sure there might be an addition or two to this motion ,
19 but I would like to make a motion.
20 At this time , I would move that the license of Ernie
21 Llamas , D/B/A Ernie ' s Bar , be renewed November 11th , 1985 .
22 That the establishment be put on written violation probation
23 for one year . If written notice be received , a probable cause
24 hearing shall be held .
25 COMMISSIONER KIRBY Probable cause -- that skips the
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80.
1 show cause --
2 MR . MORRISON : It ' s the other way around .
3 COMMISSIONER LACY: I 'm sorry . Go directly to the
4 show cause hearing .
5 COMMISSIONER KIRBY : I ' ll second it .
6 I would like to comment that I think we have been shown
7 some violations . But , I do think that the testimony today
8 shows that he is trying to correct those things . I hope he ' ll
9 take it very seriously because at the next hearing , if it
10 should happen , we will be able to consider these past
11 violations , and it will be that much more serious , at that time .
12 But , I really do feel like he does deserve a little more
13 opportunity to show that he can get squared away .
14 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER : Would you read the motion
15 again .
16 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : The motion is that the license
17 be renewed , November 11th , 1985 . In effect , the license is
18 suspended for a period of time .
19 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER : Okay .
20 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: That the establishment be put on
21 written violation probation .
22 If a written notice is received , a show cause hearing
23 shall be held .
24 So , in other words , if there ' s a violation , then there
25 will be an immediate show cause hearing , is that right , Lee?
81 .
1 MR. MORRISON: For suspension or revocation .
2 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : For suspension or revocation .
3 MR. MORRISON: Right . And , that would cut out the
4 first step in the normal county process ; which is , first
5 probable cause and then the main hearing .
6 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Gordon , what , in terms of written
7 violation probation , what are the terms of that?
8 CHAIRMAN LACY: Well , my thoughts on this would be
9 that the establishment would be put on "written violation
10 probation . " In other words , if we receive a written violation ,
11 the probation shall be that we shall not receive it . In other
12 words , that we ' re not supposed to . I 'm not sure that ' s worded
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13 quite the way it should be .
14 What I 'm saying is that they be put on probation for one
15 year and if we receive a written violation , that probation is
16 revoked and then the show cause hearing shall be held .
17 MR . MORRISON: Well , there still would be a hearing
18 prior to any suspension or revocation .
19 COMMISSIONER LACY : Oh , yes . We ' d have to have a
20 show cause hearing .
21 MR. MORRISON: I think the question is what you
22 intend by written notification .
23 COMMISSIONER LACY : From the law enforcement agencies .
24 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Other comments?
25 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: I just think that , as I
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82 .
1 understand it , the intent would be that we would have a written
2 violation with sufficient sureness that if it did happen , so
3 that it would be worth going through the hearing process for .
4 COMMISSIONER LACY : I think if we have a violation ,
5 or we were given a written violation notice on the 20 year
6 old , I would consider that to be a violation .
7 I think the one year is a long period of time , but I think
8 we ' re talking about the biggest share of the problems that
9 come about from this establishment , come through the summer
10 months , when there are more people there . And , that ' s why
11 I think that it should be for that period of time . I would
12 explain that one year situation . I know that ' s a long time ,
13 but I feel that -- I guess I have faith in Mr . Llamas that
14 ther ' ll be some things done . Things will be running a lot more
15 strict than they are now.
16 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Mr . Morrison , I have a question .
17 I guess I thought the testimony indicated , at least in my mind ,
18 at least 3 areas where there could be improved proceedures .
19 Can we condition this as well on those , could I at least
20 proplse that to the Board?
21 MR. MORRISON : I think , at the very least , you can
22 give guidance to the Board , should they ever have to hear it
23 again . You can put the licensee on notice as to the areas
24 you consider deficient .
25 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Okay . I would like to mention
83.
1 the three of those , and maybe the Board has others , but I ' d
2 like to have on the record as an indication of things that
3 I think would assure that we would not have to hear this
4 again .
5 I feel that the cooperation with the Sheriff ' s Office
6 needs to be more assertive on your part . I think that there
7 should be increased number of bar checks requested , and the
8 Sheriff ' s presence should be more visible than it has been
9 in the past . I would hope to see some affirmitive action on
10 your part with regard to that .
11 I believe there needs to be improved proceedures for
12 checking I .D. I think the point made that those who are
13 serving ought to be responsible for checking , as well as
14 security .
15 Third , the communication just doesn ' t work . If you ' ve
16 got lots of people in there keeping that information and
17 directing to other people -- I don ' t think you' ve got that
18 system down as well as you should . I would urge you to improve
19 those proceedures .
20 I would be reluctant to see the level of security decreased.
21 I think you ' ve learned through your experience that that level
22 of security is required . I would hate to see you back off of
23 that again , as you did previoulsly .
24 Those are the three things that came to my mind in terms
25 of considerations that I think need to be addressed . I think --
84 .
1 if not conditions , at least in the record that that ' s what
2 I ' ll be looking for the next time , if there is a next time .
3 COMMISSIONER KIRBY : Well , I would even add to that
4 that I would certainly like to see a reduction to the
5 rowdiness , immediately around the bar , as well as within . I
6 do feel that that ' s a difficult specific condition to trigger
7 a hearing with because pinning the responsibility is so
8 difficult.
9 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : That ' s one of the reasons I
10 really didn ' t even try and address that Bill . That would be
11 most difficult .
12 COMMISSIONER LACY: If I understand correctly , the
13 area around East Eaton is unincorporated , right?
14 MR. MORRISON : Yes .
15 COMMISSIONER LACY : It is not part of Eaton itself ,
16 right .
17 MR . MORRISON : Correct .
18 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER : Madam Chairman , I ' d like to
19 make some comments . I ' m going to vote against the motion , I
20 think it should not be renewed . I would like to state some
21 comments on why I have that attitude.
22 Mr . Llamas ' testimony earlier said that East Eaton -- I ' m
23 going to quote as closely as I can -- East Eaton, since he
24 was a youngster had kind of a bad name . He was doing everything
25 that he could to improve it , he felt . He said that there was
85 ..
1 a bunch -- a large amount of violence there. And , I think
2 it has been shown today that the bar contributes much to that ;
3 the bad reputation and the violence. He said he would like to
4 improve that . He ' s had a year , and I guess I am not convinced
5 that he has done everything that he should or could do to
6 improve the situation in East Eaton ; when he could have a
7 direct contribution to that .
8 I think with proper management , proper security , that the
9 bar, possibly , could have been made into a nice neighborhood --
10 as nice as a bar can be in a residential neighborhood .
11 He testified that he felt that 60 percent of East Eaton
12 was retired people . We ' ve heard testimony today that a lot
13 of the violence , the incidents that have happened have been
14 people from different parts of the county . They were younger
15 people . So , we know that the bar is really not serving the
16 needs of the neighborhood .
17 I would like to also reitterate some of the violations
18 that were documented . There were two for serving minors .
19 There was a total of 13 violations in one year and those were
20 documented .
21 Again , I think the bar contributes to the bad reputation
22 that Mr. Llamas said he would like to improve.
23 Going to some of the testimony that there was people being
24 carried out that were intoxicated . I 'm sure they weren ' t being
25 carried in . Whether it was just because they went in and
86 .
1 and -- when they passed out , it was not related to the bar ,
2 that ' s hard for me to realize how that could happen .
3 There ' s very few local people that were involved in the
4 reports . Again , that just documents that most of the people
5 were coming from other areas of the county , from other areas
6 even further than the county , to that area . I can ' t see where
7 that could help your neighborhood at all .
8 Officer Herringa also testified in interviewing and talking
9 to the neighborhood that most of the neighborhood , the biggest
10 percentage , if not all the neighborhood , preferred to have some
11 other type of business there rather than a bar ; a grocery store ,
12 convenience store , anything .
13 Officer Edden, an Eaton Officer , testified that the
14 violence there was much more than anything that was in Eaton .
15 He said that the violence , when he would go in to back up or
16 respond when requested to , was a violence of throwing beer
17 cans and that sort of thing .
18 I guess I am convinced , I am totally convinced , had
19 somewhat , how much I don ' t know, with the murder in that area.
20 If the bar hadn ' t been there , I 'm not sure that those people
21 would have even been in that area.
22 I think it ' s been shown that he has not followed the State
23 Liquor Laws . And , I think that is one requirement of any
24 person owning , managing , or having anything to do with a bar .
25 They know those laws , and they enforce them. It ' s just been
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1 demonstrated here that he hasn ' t done that .
2 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Other comments?
3 Let me ask for a roll call vote on the motion. I ' ll once
4 again indicate that the motion is to renew the license on
5 November 11th ; to place the establishment on a probationary
6 status for one year , with the provision that if there are
7 written violations presented to this Board , that there will
8 be an immediate show cause hearing for suspension or revocation .
9 THE CLERK : Commissioner Brantner .
10 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER : No.
11 THE CLERK: Commissioner Kirby .
12 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Yes .
13 THE CLERK : Commissioner Lacy .
14 COMMISSIONER LACY : Yes .
15 THE CLERK : Commissioner Yamaguchi .
16 COMMISSIONER YAMAGUCHI : No .
17 THE CLERK : Chairman Johnson.
18 CHAIRMAN JOHNSON : Yes .
19 The motion carries with a vote of 3 to 2 .
20 Is there further business to come before the Board?
21 If not , we will adjourn .
22 (Whereupon the hearing was adjourned at 4 : 05 p . m . )
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1 Certified a true and complete transcript .
2 Dated this of r day of March , 1985 .
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10 Valerie S . An una
Shorthand Rep rter
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