HomeMy WebLinkAbout871785.tiff 1
2
3 DOCKET NO. 87-68L PHASE II
4
5 HEARING BEFORE THE WELD COUNTY COMMISSIONERS,
STATE OF COLORADO, TO CONSIDER THE LIQUOR LICENSE RENEWAL
6 FOR JUNE FAUDOA, D/B/A LA GARRA, 430 WALL STREET, EATON,
COLORADO, ON OCTOBER 21, 1987 AT THE HOUR OF 9:00 A.M.
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10 WELD COUNTY COMMISSIONERS : Gordon Lacy, Chairman
Gene Brantner
11 Jackie Johnson
Bill Kirby
12 Frank Yamaguchi
13 APPEARANCES :
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14 For the County Commissioners : Bruce Barker
15 For Weld County Sheriff ' s Office : Mike Brown
16 For the Applicant : Keith McIntyre
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22
MABEL BROYLES
23 Certified Shorthand Reporter
Route 1, Box 48
24 Commerce City, Colorado 80022
I- 1 659-1130
25
u7t7a5
1 CHAIRMAN LACY: 9: 30 a.m. , October 21st. We will
2 reconvene the liquor license renewal hearing for June Faudoa.
3 We will have roll call, please.
4 CLERK : Gene Brantner.
5 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Here.
6 CLERK: Jackie Johnson.
7 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Here.
8 CLERK: Bill Kirby.
9 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Here.
10 CLERK: Frank Yamaguchi. Gordon Lacy.
11 CHAIRMAN LACY: Here. The procedure now will be
12 to go into Phase II, because we did find cause for the Phase
13 II part of the hearing.
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14 MR. BARKER: That ' s correct. I believe on Monday
15 you found the two factors, specifically number 1 and number 2
16 of Ordinance 102-A do exist, had been found, so you go to
17 Phase II of the hearing today. Phase 2 is basically the
18 determining of whether certain items mitigate or aggravate
19 the effects of those two factors. The factors are listed A
20 through L and Ordinance 102-A. I would be happy to read
21 those into the record, if you want me to.
22 One thing that I would also tell you is that I
23 remember in at least one other hearing that we have had on
24 this Ordinance 102-A, I believe that you took the testimony
25 to be presented on those factors and then I think you had
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1 gone through considering them one by one. It would be really
2 up to you as to how you wish to consider all of those factors
3 or let me read those into the record.
4 A is seriousness of the factor in terms of the
5 affront to the public.
6 B is corrective actions taken by the license
7 holder.
8 C is prior violations, offenses, and occurrences
9 at the licensed premises and effectiveness of prior
10 corrective action.
11 D is prior violations and offenses by the
12 licensee.
13 E is violation, offense, or occurrence as a
14 repeated course of conduct or as a single event.
15 F is likelihood of recurrence.
16 G is all circumstances surrounding the violation,
17 offense or occurrence.
18 H is willfulness of violations, offenses or
19 occurrences.
20 I is length of time the licensee has been held by
21 the licensee being disciplined.
22 J is previous sanctions imposed against the
23 licensee.
24 And K is other factors making the situation unique
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L - 25 to the licensee or premises subjected to discipline.
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1 Those are the factors that you would be
2 considering today. And again, you have to consider those in
3 light of the two that you had found previously on Monday.
4 Specifically, in regards to number 1, it was two factors.
5 You had found that there was evidence showing that thereby
6 serving to minors. And then secondly, that there had been
7 showing of evidence saying that there had been serving to
8 persons who were visibly intoxicated.
9 CHAIRMAN LACY: Would we then start with, I guess,
10 with the specific information as to the first of those and do
11 that and I am talking about the -- I don't have my copy in
12 front of me. The two -- yes, whether there has been
13 violations in the last year period. Do we do these one by
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14 one?
15 MR. BARKER: I think probably it might be best
16 just to go ahead and take any and all testimony that both
17 Mike might have and then also Keith might have and then also
18 remember that in this is the nature of public a hearing, so
19 that anyone who is here that would like to say anything about
20 those factors can do so. Take that testimony and then go
21 into the determination. You can do it one by own or you can
22 do it altogether. It ' s just however you desire.
23 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. And do we start off again
24 in the same format that we did before, where we had the
25 evidence presented by the Sheriff ' s Department through the
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1 attorney for the Sheriff ' s Department?
2 MR. BARKER: I think that ' s correct. I think
3 also, if both Mike and Keith, if they would like to make a
4 short opening statement, they could do so, then present the
5 evidence if you so desire, then maybe present a short closing
6 statement if they would like to.
7 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. If that ' s fine with the two
8 attorneys, we will start with that and start with a short
9 statement or from you, Mike -- what is your last name?
10 MR. BROWN: Brown.
11 First of all, I would inform the Commission that I
12 am appearing because Mr. Knepel, who had earlier appeared
13 earlier in this proceeding, his father passed away yesterday
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14 and he was called out of state. I would advise the
15 Commissioners that I am not very familiar with the facts of
16 what was presented, having not been at the previous hearing.
17 I am here to do what I can to continue this hearing. I do
18 have some experience with the tavern that we are talking
19 about. It used to be known as Ernie ' s Tavern. We had
20 previous hearings in front of the Commission at which time I
21 represented -- I stood in Mr. Knepel ' s place representing the
22 Sheriff ' s Office in presenting the evidence to the Commission
23 on Ernie ' s Tavern by a prior licensee.
24 It ' s my understanding that Mr. Knepel wished to
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25 present one witness today. That would be Veronica Santos. I
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1 believe she is here. I would also ask the Commission, I
2 believe there were a number of police reports submitted to
3 the Commission by Mr. Knepel and I believe he made a closing
4 argument concerning Phase I, which I believe would also carry
5 over into Phase II considerations. There were a number of
6 police reports submitted as apart of the record. There was
7 testimony by various Sheriff 's Officers and a summary by the
8 Sheriff 's Office, I believe of the types of calls they have
9 had out there, the number of calls they had had out there and
10 basically that information was presented to the Commission
11 for their consideration. I would certainly be asking that
12 that same information that was submitted in Phase I also be
13 considered by the Commissioners in Phase II in determining
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14 what to do with this.
15 If we just go down the list as far as opening
16 statement, I don't think I 'll address those in opening
17 statement. I think that I will wait till we have the
18 evidence presented and then comment on the evidence that ' s
19 been presented and how it affects each individual factor
20 that ' s listed in Ordinance 102. I believe there are -- in
21 the copy that I have, there are twelve individual factors
22 that have been read into the record, which the Commissioners
23 can consider and in my understanding of what was presented
I , 24 also in my past experience with Ernie ' s when it was Ernie 's
25 Tavern, I think there are a number of things the
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1 Commissioners should consider, but I ' ll address those in
J 2 closing argument.
3 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay.
4 MR. MCINTYRE : Just by way of statement, I will
5 advise the Commissioners that I am going to object to the
6 consideration of the problems that a prior licensee may have
7 created for this County in considering what to do with my
8 client. We are not -- I don 't think bound by what he did.
9 Matter of fact, the position we are going to take in this is
10 to show to the Commissioners that this is the second time
11 that June has held this license and both instances, she has
12 taken over in a bad situation. She has taken over a bar that
r- I 13 had a bad reputation and had a lot of problems. In the
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14 first, I think it took her a little over a year to get things
15 cleaned out, but she ran for seven years without appearing
16 before these Commissioners without material problems.
17 It was then sold to Ernie. He came in. He took
18 it over. He managed it. She had no control of it. After
19 two years and I believe several appearances before these
20 Commissioners and several suspensions of his license, she
21 then took it back. And is now trying again to correct a bad
22 situation that she inherited and I think with some degree of
23 success. I think we will be able to show that and we would
24 feel in this particular situation as the Commissioners may
25 remember , we raised this. We at the time of Phase I admitted
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1 basically that, yes, there are some technical violations that
J 2 the Commissioners could find Phase I from.
3 I guess I am a little disturbed about the finding
4 of serving a publicly intoxicated person as that was not in
5 the charges that we were here to -- it was not included in
6 what was claimed that we did wrong. And consequently, there
7 was no evidence addressed to it that I am aware of. But the --
8 I think we will be able to show the Commissioners that this
9 is the first time that positive action really is called for
10 in this case and that we feel perhaps a suspension and some
11 other things, if anything, may be appropriate rather than a
12 revocation of refusal to renew the license. Thank you.
F I 13 CHAIRMAN LACY: Thank you. At this time, then we
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14 would allow the Sheriff ' s Office to present witnesses, if
15 they care to, and we also will go through the process of
16 cross-examination, as we did in Phase I, is that correct?
17 MR. BARKER: That ' s correct.
18 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay.
19 MR. BROWN: I would then at this time call
20 Veronica Santos.
21 CHAIRMAN LACY: Mike, we had the witness sit there
22 at the table so that we have a recorder.
23 MR. BROWN: Fine.
24 CHAIRMAN LACY: And you can use the microphone up
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25 there or you can use the microphone there, if you care to.
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1 VERONICA SANTOS,
2 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
3 the whole truth, testified on her oath as follows:
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. BROWN:
6 Q Could you state your name, please, for the record?
7 A Veronica Santos.
8 Q And are you related to the incidents that
9 occurred, the homicide that occurred in the tavern? What
10 relationship do you hold to any of the actors involved?
11 A Mr. Santos is my husband -- Rosales Santos.
12 Q And he is the what, the suspect in the case?
r--! 13 A Yes.
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14 Q Did Mr. Knepel from the District Attorney ' s
15 office, who I am also from, that office, did he talk to you
16 about your testimony today?
17 A Not really. Just -- I don't -- I keep thinking I
18 wonder why I am here, what I am trying to influence one way
19 or another. I don't know the people. I wasn ' t there the
20 night it happened. Mr. McIntyre talked about it the other
21 day, about the control in the premises. I think there should
22 have been some control that night, but the security guard,
23 there could have been a lot of the hurt eliminated from both
24 families.
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25 Q Okay.
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1 A As I say, I have nothing against the people of the
2 bar. I don' t know them. I don 't care to know them. I have
3 come to a point in my life to where I just want my life, me
4 and my seven children, but it hurts to know that in that
5 place there was no security guard. He could have been
6 checked. They kept serving him. His friends keep serving
7 him. He didn't have any money that night. He was broke. I
8 know that for a fact.
9 Q You know this -- how do you know this?
10 A I know through evidence that the Sheriff 's
11 Department, they didn 't find no money on him. I know through
12 his attorneys that he didn 't have anything in his pocket.
13 And I just wonder, like I say, if you are going to give them
14 their license, put something there, a rule or a law that they
15 might be able to have security guard there, so two other
16 families won't be hurt. Anybody else could be hurt just the
17 way we were. I am not only speaking for myself, I am
18 speaking for Nellie also.
19 Q I am sorry, who are you speaking for?
20 A Nellie Garcia.
21 Q There was some indication that a petition had been
22 passed around in the area up there, do you know anything
23 about a petition?
24 A Well , my brother called me and he asked -- he told
25 me about the petition that was being passed around.
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1 Apparently his father-in-law didn't have any idea of what it
2 was, because just in English. And he doesn't speak or
3 understand English and he said he was -- my brother said he
4 didn't want to sign it because of the involvement me being
5 his sister and Rosales being his brother-in-law, and he just
6 called to apologize to me, tell me he that his father-in-law
7 had signed a petition not knowing what he was signing and --
8 Q Okay.
9 A Like I say, I really don 't care. I hold nothing
10 against anybody. To each his own, their own thoughts, their
11 own mind, their own working, but he just called me and he
12 apologized to me.
F—-I 13 Q Do you have anything else you would like to inform
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14 the Commissioners of concerning your -- what you know about
15 the operation of the bar or what you know about the incident,
16 the major incident that occurred?
17 A Well, I say I have never been back there. I don't
18 know what the bar looks like inside. Like I said before, I
19 don 't know the people. My husband was a good friend of
20 Francisco Gallegos. I understand that they were the -- some
21 of the witnesses that were going to testify against him in
22 Court before he plea bargained. Then, like I say, I 'm not --
23 I know my testimony isn' t going to influence you one way or
24 another and I am not asking it to, I just want you to take
25 into consideration that if you are going to give them their
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1 license back, to put a regulation or a law stating that they
2 should have security guards and to point to where these that
3 they are intoxicated, to either have them thrown out, call in
4 a police officer, have them taken away, the person that ' s
5 intoxicated to a point to where they think is going to be
6 violent. I can't say nothing bad about my husband, because I
7 was married to him for eight years and he had stopped going
8 there. Once in awhile he would go there and talked to his
9 friends, the Gallegos ' . That ' s more or less what I have to
10 say. The fact that I hate to see anybody else hurt the way
11 two families have been hurt.
12 Q Anything else?
13 MR. BROWN: That ' s all I have of this witness.
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14 MR. MCINTYRE : Just one question.
15 EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. MCINTYRE :
17 Q What is your father-in-law' s name?
18 A I mean not my father-in-law, my brother-in-law.
19 Q Your brother-in-law, what is his name.
20 A His last name is Medina.
21 Q First name?
22 A I don't know.
23 Q You didn 't talk to him yourself?
24 A Huh-uh.
25 MR. MCINTYRE : I have nothing further.
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1 CHAIRMAN LACY: Does the Board have any questions?
2 Thank you. You may be excused.
3 MR. BROWN: I would call Lieutenant McGuirk for
4 just a very short testimony.
5 STEVE MCGUIRK,
6 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
7 the whole truth, testified on his oath as follows :
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. BROWN:
10 Q Would you state your full name for the record,
11 please?
12 A Steve McGuirk.
F-7 13 Q How are you employed, sir?
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14 A Lieutenant of the Sheriff ' s Office.
15 Q How long have you been with the Sheriff ' s Office,
16 sir?
17 A Nine years.
18 Q During the last year , during the time that the
19 present licensee has had control and possession of the
20 license and the premises that we are speaking of, are you
21 familiar with the complaints the Sheriff' s Office has
22 received concerning incidents occurring there?
23 A Yes, sir, I am.
24 Q During the course of that year , just that year is
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25 what I am talking about, from the beginning of that year for
1 licensing to the present, have you seen any improvement over
2 the course of the year?
3 A No, sir, I haven 't. Understanding that the
4 licensee here, I think is from October 1 of '86 to October 1
5 of ' 87, and that ' s the time parameters that I used to get all
6 of my information that I brought to Mr. Knepel and to the
7 Board and the dates and the times of those occurrences are
8 spread out just about evenly. In other words, I can't say
9 that there is a particular month where it was really bad and
10 a particular month where it was really good. It ' s spread out
11 pretty much evenly over the whole year.
12 Q Do you continue to see the same kinds of offenses
F-T 13 throughout the whole year period then?
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14 A Of the various natures that I outlined, yes. You
15 know, there is no pattern that I can see either type or of
16 month or of time of day or day of week or anything like that,
17 no.
18 Q As far as saying that the complaints have dropped
19 off, you can't say that?
20 A No, sir. As I recall, and I don 't have it in
21 front of me, it seems like the first one was sometime around
22 mid December and the last one being the end of September and
23 then kind of spread out evenly in between.
24 MR. BROWN: That ' s all I have.
25 EXAMINATION
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1 BY MR. MCINTYRE :
2 Q Officer McGuirk, you say over the last six months,
3 you haven't noticed any pattern as far as days of the week or
4 anything else.
5 A Over the last year.
6 Q How about the last six months?
7 A No.
8 Q So the occurrences come in virtually any day of
9 the week , is that what you are saying?
10 A Right. Without it in front of me, I can ' t specify
11 any particular time during that whole year period and that
12 wouldn ' t change in the last six months.
"TI 13 Q So you are talking about the twelve things that
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14 are in the exhibit, is that correct?
15 A Right.
16 MR. MCINTYRE : Nothing further.
17 CHAIRMAN LACY: Further questions from the Board
18 or any questions from the Board for Mr . McGuirk? Thank you.
19 You may be excused.
20 MR. BROWN: I don 't believe I have any other
21 evidence to present, other than to ask the Board to also
22 accept the police reports and the summarizations that were
23 given by the previous witnesses in Phase I as apart of this
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24 Phase II of the hearing.
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25 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. You do understand that if
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1 Mr. McIntyre has witnesses, you may cross-examine them.
2 MR. BROWN: Yes. Okay. Thank you.
3 MR. MCINTYRE : At this time, the Applicant would
4 call Mr. Toby Martinez.
5 TOBY MARTINEZ ,
6 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
7 the whole truth, testified on his oath as follows :
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. MCINTYRE :
10 Q Mr. Martinez, will you please state your name,
11 please?
12 A Toby Martinez.
I 13 Q And how old are you, Mr. Martinez?
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14 A Forty-nine.
15 Q Mr. Martinez, do you speak both English and
16 Spanish?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Do you speak both reasonably affluently?
19 A Mostly English, but if I talk to anybody, it ' s in
20 Spanish and if they don 't know English, I will talk to them
21 in Spanish.
22 Q And they understand what you are saying?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Mr. Martinez, did you circulate some petitions
25 relating to the La Garra bar?
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1 A Uh-huh.
. _ 2 Q You will have to speak up?
3 A Yes.
4 Q When did you circulate those petitions, Mr.
5 Martinez?
6 A Sunday.
7 Q Of this last Sunday, this past Sunday?
8 A Yes. Uh-huh.
9 Q What area did you circulate those petitions in?
10 A First I started the other side -- what do you call
11 that?
12 Q Within what block radius of the bar was it?
F-1 13 A The face this and --
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14 Q You went from the tracks to the east?
15 A This way. And then around.
16 Q Covering the whole area that surrounds the La
17 Garra bar?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And did you do your best to contact every resident
20 of that neighborhood?
21 A Most of them. It was really getting late.
22 Q Were there some you were unable to contact?
23 A Yes, uh-huh.
24 Q How many was that?
25 A That I didn 't get a hold of?
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1 Q Yes. Roughly.
2 A I don't know, about four, I think. Four more.
3 Q Did you contact a Mr. Medina?
4 A He was the first one.
5 Q He was the first one?
6 A That ' s where I started from.
7 Q Okay. That ' s where you started from?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Did you explain the petitions to him in Spanish?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did you read them to him?
12 A Yeah.
I 13 Q There were actually two petitions, a top and a
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14 bottom?
15 A No. I explained it to him and they wanted it and
16 then he put his name on top. His first name.
17 Q One of them is that they want it and one of them
18 is they don 't want it?
19 A I made a mistake here. I read it wrong and he
20 said yes on it, see.
21 Q There are actually two parts to the top, are there
22 not?
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q And one of those parts says, do you feel the
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25 license should be issued?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q And then one part deals with rowdiness and
3 problems in the neighborhood?
4 A I made a mistake right there, you know. I didn 't
5 know till way afterwards so I didn 't erase. I just put my --
6 that was.
7 Q In other words, you yourself misunderstood that
8 second part?
9 A Uh-huh.
10 Q You were the second one who signed the petition?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And you signed yes where you met no?
F` I 13 A Yes.
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14 Q Did you go back to the people who signed yes and
15 explained to them the difference of what you had mistaken?
16 A Yes. On this other side, but it was already too
17 late. You can't do that in a hurry and you have to talk to
18 them still about ten, fifteen minutes. Especially the ones
19 who don't know how to speak English, you have to explain them
20 pretty good and it took me until 6 and I went back, but, you
21 know, it was already too late.
22 Q Did any of them want to sign the petition saying
23 that the license should not be issued?
24 A No.
25 Q Everyone signed that it should be issued?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q Are these the petitions you circulated?
3 A Yes. That ' s the first page I made a mistake.
4 Q Okay.
5 MR. BARKER: We will mark these collectively as
6 Exhibit No. D.
7 Q I hand you what has been marked Exhibit D, which
8 consists of three pages, did you circulate these petitions?
9 A Yep.
10 Q Did you fairly explain to the people who signed in
11 English or in Spanish, if they could not understand English,
12 that the top part was if they felt the license should be
13 issued and the bottom part was if they felt it shouldn't be?
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14 A Yes, uh-huh. Practically all of them signed
15 didn't say nothing, they said it was okay and I didn't -- you
16 know.
17 Q Now -- okay. Now, the part on which confusion
18 existed involves the statement about excessive noise or
19 rowdiness exists on a continuous basis, is that correct?
20 A Huh-uh.
21 Q People signed that yes?
22 A Yeah. It should have been no.
23 Q Thinking that there wasn 't excessive noise? At
24 least the ones you went back and talked to to change that?
25 A Yes.
F371 S1R
1 MR. MCINTYRE : I would offer Exhibit D. Mike, do
2 you want to look at it?
3 MR. BROWN: I would just basically object to it.
4 I think that based on all the confusion that 's been talked
5 about by this witness concerning what people thought or what
6 they didn't think and the changes that had to be made and I
7 don ' t think that we can draw or the Commission should draw
8 any conclusions based on a petition that apparently was
9 misrepresented. People filled out one way and believing it
10 to be another and now we have a witness here telling us that
11 he thinks he straightened it out with all of them. I would
12 simply object to it, that I don 't think it has any relevance
13 based on the fact that the confusion has been outlined.
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14 MR. MCINTYRE : The confusion existed only as to
15 one part, if the Board wishes to disregard that part. It ' s
16 clear there is no confusion on the other part and that is
17 whether the license should be renewed or not. We would offer
18 the exhibit.
19 MR. BARKER: You might want to make I guess we
20 would call a ruling on it. The one thing though is as to
21 procedures that we are working under, most, if not all, of
22 the evidence which is presented may be taken into evidence.
23 You just have to give it certain weight. Mike pointed out
24 certain problems of relevancy and however Keith also
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25 mentioned some points which would be relevant to it. So with
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1 that, it ' s your option, but I would suggest that you make a
2 ruling at this point in time as to whether you would take it
3 in evidence.
4 CHAIRMAN LACY: I presume that is my option, is
5 that correct?
6 MR. BARKER: That ' s correct.
7 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. I would then suggest that
8 the Board or that we accept this exhibit and relate to it the
9 amount of weight of evidence that we want to place on the
10 exhibit.
11 MR. BARKER: Okay. Again, that ' s marked as
12 Exhibit D and it consists of three pages, which appear to
1 13 have been signed by certain individuals.
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14 MR. MCINTYRE : I have nothing further of Mr.
15 Martinez.
16 CHAIRMAN LACY: Mr. Brown.
17 MR. BROWN: Yes. If I could have the petition
18 back for a moment to ask a few questions about it.
19 EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. BROWN:
21 Q So it ' s Toby Martinez, is that correct?
22 A That ' s right. Yeah.
23 Q What relation, if any, do you have to the bar?
24 A Huh?
25 Q Do you have any relationship at all to the bar?
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1 A No.
2 Q You don 't -- you are not a relative of any owner
3 or any operator of the bar?
4 A Yeah.
5 Q You are not?
6 A Yeah.
7 Q Why did you happen to circulate this petition?
8 A Well, I live there. Instead of going anywhere
9 else, like, you know get in the car, you can walk over there
10 and walk back home.
11 Q So you frequent this establishment quite often?
12 A Huh?
13 Q You go over here quite often?
14 A Yeah.
15 Q Out of all the people that you went to see, did
16 anybody refuse to sign anywhere on the petition?
17 A One that went over there, he didn ' t want to and
18 that ' s the one, "You can do me a favor, say how come you
19 don't want it?" and he said he didn ' t want nothing to do with
20 it. He said that they had a bad name and all that and he
21 didn 't want to sign it.
22 Q So he didn't sign anywhere on the petition, but he
23 indicated he didn't want it?
24 A But yet he didn' t want to sign the bottom. He
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25 didn't want to get involved.
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1 Q But he is the only one that indicated he didn't
2 want to get involved?
3 A Yeah.
4 Q Out of all the other people, I am not sure I was
5 clear on how many people you indicated you were unable to
6 contact in this area?
7 A Say about four.
8 Q Do some of these people live at the same
9 addresses?
10 A Some of them do.
11 Q So I notice here that the addresses listed?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Several people are from the same residence?
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14 A Yes.
15 Q Do you know if the people here that have signed
16 frequent the bar?
17 A What ' s that again?
18 Q The people that have signed here, placed their
19 names supporting the bar?
20 A Yes.
21 Q They go to the bar?
22 A Huh?
23 Q Do they drink at the bar?
24 A Most of them do.
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25 Q If I understand correctly, you say you explained
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1 this to people in English and in Spanish?
2 A Yes. Just a few of Spanish. They don' t know how
3 to speak pretty good English.
4 Q But you -- it ' s true, isn ' t it, from what you said
5 when you went -- initially went to these people, you didn't
6 understand exactly how the petition was set up?
7 A I understood it, but I marked the wrong -- I
8 marked it wrong.
9 Q We just have your word for the fact that you went
10 back and explained it to them and it really meant something
11 else?
12 A I was asking them to sign it. I was the second
r-1 13 one to sign it.
L J
14 Q You were the second one to sign it. There are two
15 check marks here in the no column, what do those represent?
16 A Oh, it ' s because I went back and it was already
17 too late and for me said I was cheating or anything I just
18 left it alone.
19 Q So we are to rely on your word that this petition
20 where they said that excessive noise or rowdiness exists on a
21 continuous basis and where everybody marked it yes, except
22 for one individual down here, Evlyn Race, she marked it no,
23 those people really meant no?
24 A Yes. All of them meant no.
25 MR. BROWN: No further questions.
871488
1 MR. MCINTYRE : No further questions of Mr.
2 Martinez.
3 CHAIRMAN LACY: Does the Board have any questions
4 for Mr. Martinez?
5 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: I am not real clear on Mr.
6 Martinez ' answer when you asked your relationship to the
7 operators or anybody at the bar, are you related to anyone
8 that operates the bar?
9 A Yes. Uh-huh.
10 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Thank you.
11 MR. MCINTYRE : Then I do have a question.
12 EXAMINATION
(' 1 13 BY MR. MCINTYRE :
14 Q What is your relationship?
15 A Huh? She is my niece.
16 Q She ' s your niece? June is?
17 A Yes.
18 MR. MCINTYRE : Nothing further.
19 CHAIRMAN LACY: Any further questions from the
20 police? You may be excused.
21 MR. BROWN: Based on that explanation, I do have a
22 couple of other further questions. I understood him to say,
23 no, he was not related to.
24 EXAMINATION
25 BY MR. BROWN:
871488
LI
1 Q Have you ever worked at the bar, sir?
2 A When she was got it.
3 Q Okay. Are you allowed to drink there and given
4 drinks from time to time without paying for them or doing
5 work there in exchange for drinks?
6 A I haven ' t worked there for quite awhile.
7 Q You haven 't been able to for quite awhile?
8 MR. MCINTYRE : He hasn 't worked there for quite
9 awhile was his answer.
10 Q As far as getting drinks there at the bar, do you
11 have to pay for your drinks?
12 A Yeah.
r' l 13 Q They never give you free drinks?
L
14 A No. Huh-uh. Huh-uh.
15 Q Have you ever seen intoxicated individuals in the
16 bar?
17 A No.
18 Q Never once have seen intoxicated individuals in
19 the bar?
20 A No.
21 Q How often do you go there, sir, to drink?
22 A Sometimes on weekends, gone dancing.
23 Q Would you say every weekend, every couple of
7 24 weekends, what?
25 A Probably twice a month, three times. Depends, you
F1'71 /11;23a
1 know.
2 Q And twice a month during the last twelve months,
3 you have never been seen anybody in the bar that you would
4 consider to be intoxicated?
5 A No, huh-uh. Huh-uh.
6 CHAIRMAN LACY: I have a question for him. You
7 said that you have not worked there for quite awhile, are you
8 talking about in the last year?
9 A No. Been about four years, I think.
10 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. Thank you. Any further
11 questions from the Board? You may be excused.
12 A Thank you.
13 MR. MCINTYRE : At this time, we would recall I
L ;
14 guess June Faudoa.
15 JUNE FAUDOA,
16 the Applicant herein, having been first duly sworn to state
17 the whole truth, testified on her oath as follows:
18 EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. MCINTYRE :
20 Q For the record again, will you state your name?
21 A June Faudoa.
22 Q June, when did you first acquire the establishment
23 now known as La Garra?
24 A September 1 of ' 86 .
T
25 Q Of ' 86?
871488
1 A When I first got the premises?
2 Q Yes.
3 A October 1, 1976.
4 Q 19?
5 A '76 .
6 Q '76 . Okay, and from October 1 of 1976, how long
7 did you operate the bar before you sold it?
8 A I think it was about seven years. I think it was.
9 Q When did Ernie take it over?
10 A ' 84.
11 Q In 1984?
12 A Uh-huh.
r- i 13 Q So you had it from ' 76 to ' 84?
b
14 A Yes.
15 Q What time in ' 84 did he take it over?
16 A September 1.
17 Q Of ' 84?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And he kept it then until when?
20 A September 1 of ' 86.
21 Q Of 1986?
22 A Uh-huh.
23 Q Did you have any control of the bar or anything to
24 do with the bar during that time?
25 A No.
873. :83
1 Q He was making payments to you on the bar at that
I
_ _ 2 time?
3 A Yes.
4 Q June, when you first acquired the establishment in
5 September 1 of 1976 , did the bar have a bad reputation?
6 A Yes, it did.
7 Q Were there difficulties in the bar?
8 A Yes, there was.
9 Q Did you come before a hearing or a hearing before
10 the then Commissioners?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Concerning that?
i 13 A Yes.
L i
14 Q Was that in that first year that you bought it?
15 A Yes.
16 0 Did they require that you put lighting in the bar?
17 I am sorry, in the parking lot?
18 A Yeah.
19 Q Did you do that?
20 A Uh-huh.
21 Q Did that have any effect on the incidents that
22 occurred in the parking lot?
23 A They still used to happen now and then.
24 Q But did it cut them down at all?
1
25 A Well, yes, in a way.
871488
1 Q Have you been back before this Board since that
2 time till today?
3 A No.
4 Q On any sort of a question of nonrenewal or
5 anything of that nature?
6 A This is my first time.
7 Q Okay. There was no suspension entered in 1976 ,
8 was there?
9 A None.
10 Q When you were before the Board? When you took it
11 back over, had the bar again acquired a bad reputation?
12 A Yes.
r-° 1 13 Q Before you had sold it to Ernie, had you -- how
i
14 was the bar functioning? Was it running pretty smoothly?
15 A Yes, it was.
16 Q Did you have any problems in there?
17 A None.
18 Q Now, can you tell me since the shooting incident
19 in March, what nights of the week have you been open?
20 A Saturday and Sunday.
21 Q Those are the only two nights you are open now?
22 A Uh-huh.
23 Q How long has this been going on?
24 A Ever since the homicide.
T
25 Q Prior to that, did you have extra employees in
871488
1 there to watch the crowd and try to avoid trouble?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Were they primarily relatives of yours?
4 A Yes, they were.
5 Q Did you have any more than was necessary to tend
6 bar and serve tables?
7 A No.
8 Q I mean did you have any extra than what you needed
9 to tend bar and serve tables?
10 A No. Huh-uh. I still don' t understand.
11 Q I don't think you do. Did you have some family
12 and employees there whose purpose was to watch the crowd and
13 try to avoid trouble?
L
14 A Yes.
15 Q So you were providing some security on your own,
16 basically?
17 A Uh-huh. Yes.
18 Q Just for the -- okay. Now, you had mentioned that
19 financially things have been tight since you have taken the
20 bar back over?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Was the business substantially smaller than when
23 you had sold it to Ernie?
24 A Yes, it was smaller.
25 Q And over the period of last year, have you done
871488
1 anything about trying to weed out the clientele to keep the
2 troublemakers out?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Tell the Board what you do when you discover
5 someone is a habitual troublemaker?
6 A I just 86 them out.
7 Q Explain to them what 86 them out means. Some may
8 be familiar , some maybe not.
9 A I tell them they are 86 'ed. You can never come
10 back any more.
11 Q Have you done this over the last year?
12 A Yes.
—iI 13 Q Do you feel the people that are coming in are
L i
14 improving?
15 A I think so.
16 Q Did you when you owned the bar for that first
17 eight years, did you follow any course like that?
18 A Similar.
19 Q Of 86?
20 A Similar.
21 Q If they were troublemakers?
22 A (Nodded affirmatively. )
23 Q Describe for the Board where the primary clientele
24 comes from that you have?
n
25 A Gee, from Fort Collins, Greeley. Some from
871488
1 Cheyenne.
2 Q It ' s primarily Hispanics?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Do some of the neighbors come in?
5 A Once in a great while.
6 Q Not a heavy?
7 A No, huh-uh. Huh-uh. Not my steady customers, no.
8 Q Now, as far as the financial situation, has
9 anything changed this month that would make it possible for
10 you to hire outside security guards?
11 A Yes, I just made my last payment.
12 Q Just made the last payment?
13 A On the bar, yes.
L
14 Q Eleven years, it 's paid off and it ' s now yours?
15 A Yes.
16 Q What instructions do you give to your bartenders
17 concerning the checking of i.d. ' s?
18 A Well , most of our clientele is illegal aliens and
19 it ' s sort of hard to determine because some of them don't --
20 they can't have an i .d. , so we go for the older type that
21 look that older type.
22 Q Some of them carry green cards, do they not?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And some of them are citizens?
I 1
L
25 A Yes.
8714sc
1 Q But do you tell your bartenders to check anybody
2 at all?
3 A Yes.
4 Q What do you tell them to check?
5 A I go check i.d. ' s, especially if they are very
6 young.
7 Q If they look young?
8 A Uh-huh.
9 Q And if they can' t produce i.d. ' s, what do you do?
10 A We been turning them away.
11 Q Have you been more careful about that lately?
12 A Yes.
I 1 13 Q Why?
L
14 A Well, what I am going through now.
15 Q Because of the incidents that happened this year?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Do you feel that with a continuous of your
18 license, you would have the ability to might say clean the
19 clientele back up and reduce the difficulties?
20 A I think I will. Uh-huh.
21 Q And you have in the past been able to do that, is
22 that correct?
23 A Yes.
24 Q There was some talk about a statement made over
7
25 the microphone by Antonio Rosales?
871488
1 A Yes.
2 Q Can you tell the Board what was said?
3 A Okay. Antonio Rosales is my father. He had told
4 them be careful, make your stops right when you leave the
5 premises. Travel all, you know, traffic violations. Mean to
6 drive right. If the cop would stop them, for them not to
7 harass them, just to take whatever the cops gave them. They
8 ending and they would have to go to Court and fight about it
9 if they wanted to.
10 Q So he didn 't tell them to fight with the cops?
11 A No.
12 Q Or to run from the cops?
I i 13 A No.
L J
14 Q He told them they would have to go to Court to
15 fight about it?
16 A Yes.
17 Q If you or your father or any of the other people
18 working there see someone that you don't feel is capable of
19 driving, what did you do?
20 A My father has taken them home.
21 Q He will take them home?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Rather than let them drive?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Until this year , how long -- have you ever had
891488
1 another charge of serving a minor?
2 A No.
3 Q So back in those first eight years, you didn 't?
4 A Nothing.
5 Q Okay. When you took the bar back over, what --
6 did you bring the clientele back in right away that you had
7 or did you inherit what Ernie had?
8 A I think it was half and half.
9 Q Some of them came back because you were there?
10 A Yeah.
11 Q Are you willing now to hire outside security if
12 the Board feels it ' s appropriate?
F--[ 13 A Oh now, I can afford it.
L. i
14 Q But just so the Board understands, did you ignore
15 security even though you didn 't have an outside force?
16 A No.
17 Q How long has it been that you have used your
18 employees for security?
19 A Ever since I got back the business.
20 4 How about before you let the business go before
21 you sold it to Ernie?
22 A He used to have security guards there.
23 Q No, before you sold it to Ernie, did you have your
24 employees as security?
25 A Yes.
871488
1 Q For how long a period of time then?
2 A That was like on Friday, Saturday, Sundays and I
3 had the regular security guards there I think only for about
4 two years.
5 Q The first two years?
6 A Yes. They really didn't help us out that much.
7 Q Okay. Did you think that your employees knew the
8 clientele better and had a better chance of stopping
9 difficulties?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Is there anything else you would like this Board
12 to know concerning this matter?
13 A No. Not at this time.
L i
14 MR. MCINTYRE : Okay. I have nothing further of
15 this witness at this time.
16 EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. BROWN:
18 Q Now, you were asked by Mr . McIntyre whether or not
19 except for this year, this one guilty plea that you entered
20 to serving a minor, had you ever had any other charges of --
21 A Against me?
22 Q Against -- right.
23 A Against me or --
24 Q Against you or any members of the bar staff there?
I -1
25 A One.
871488
1 Q Just one other charge was brought?
2 A Huh?
3 Q Are we talking charges or we talking convictions,
4 do you know the difference?
5 A There was a charge, then it was dismissed.
6 Q And that ' s the only one?
7 A Uh-huh.
8 Q In this last year?
9 A And the one that I pleaded guilty to.
10 Q There wasn' t -- there weren't three this last
11 year?
12 A Only -- I only got twice.
F I 13 MR. MCINTYRE : Excuse me, but I believe my
L i
14 question was prior to the time she sold the bar to Ernie, did
15 she have any before this last year?
16 Q How many have you had this last year? That ' s my
17 question.
18 A Two.
19 Q The one you pled guilty to and one other that was
20 dismissed?
21 A Yes.
22 Q As far as previous to that, you had never had
23 another charge?
24 A None.
25 Q You indicate that you have advised your people to
8'71483
1 check for i.d. 's?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And but that ' s particularly hard because you have
4 the illegal aliens who don't have any documentation?
5 A Yes.
6 Q I think you have also indicated that your
7 clientele doesn't really come from the local area there, it
8 comes from as far as away as Cheyenne?
9 A Well now and then people from the area go in
10 there.
11 Q But your marjor clientele --
12 A It ' s not on a regular basis, like Friday,
-1 13 Saturday, Sunday, no.
L. J
14 Q So your main clientele is from serving people way
15 outside the Eaton community?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And all those people I assume have to drive there?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And you indicate that your father -- what was your
20 father ' s function at the bar then, let me ask that?
21 A He has been there like a security guard type.
22 Bartender.
23 Q His responsibility is to drive people home?
24 A It ' s not his responsibility, but he does it on his
25 own.
871488
1 Q How often would you estimate he does that?
2 A Maybe like every other week on a Saturday only.
3 Q What have you instructed your employees or have
4 you instructed your employees concerning intoxicated people
5 in the bar, what are they instructed to do once they realize
6 someone has had too much?
7 A Okay. When they had too much, we take off the
8 bottle and we go sits them down in a corner booth and they
9 sleep in there, because I can't see myself throwing them out
10 and somebody -- I mean sometimes they could rob them or
11 whatever. Either way, I would get blamed on that part.
12 Q How often does that happen?
—1 13 A Oh, maybe that they sleep?
L
14 Q Yes, that you have someone so intoxicated that you
15 make him sleep?
16 A Well , they are not that totally intoxicated, but
17 they are sort of feeling good. Maybe about twice a month, I
18 would say.
19 Q And they don' t resist that, they say okay I will
20 just sleep it off?
21 A Yes. They go in the corner and they stay there.
22 Q Okay. What do you consider -- what do you look
23 for in someone that you think is so intoxicated that they
24 can't drive home?
7
25 A They are slurred, you know, with the way they
871488
1 talk.
2 Q Uh-huh.
3 A Their moving actions, the way they walk.
4 Q Are you aware that blood alcohol tests were done
5 in the homicide case?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Are you aware that those blood alcohol results
8 showed that with regard to some of the actors in that case
9 that were in the bar , one of those people had a point 19
10 blood alcohol level?
11 A Yes, but it was stated too they were in other bars
12 too. How am I supposed to determine how much they drink in
F-H 13 another bar for me to cut on them?
14 Q Well, you look for slurred speech?
15 A To me, they weren' t slurred speech.
16 Q Okay. Someone with a point 198, I am sorry point
17 190 didn 't have slurred speech?
18 A No, because there is some good ones out there that
19 drink too. They could drink all day and all night and still
20 act okay.
21 Q One of the other individuals had a point 168 blood
22 alcohol level?
23 A Yes.
24 Q That person didn ' t appear to be intoxicated to you
25 either?
871188
1 A And the victim only had a 380 -- point 38 and he
2 was there all day.
3 Q That ' s the victim?
4 A Yes.
5 Q But not the people that caused the trouble?
6 A Pardon me?
7 Q The victim was just sitting there as I understand?
8 A He was drinking his beer now and then. He was in
9 the bar almost all afternoon until it happened.
10 Q But these other people did not appear intoxicated
11 to you?
12 A No.
F I 13 Q You were serving them alcohol in the premises
L J
14 then?
15 A What ' s his name, Ario, he wasn 't drinking one like
16 every five, ten minutes. He would have one in his hand for
17 the longest time. If another person bought him a beer, I
18 wouldn't know just what I had served.
19 Q So you could be serving him a beer, the bartender
20 could serve him a beer or?
21 A Even a friend could serve a beer .
22 Q One of the cocktail waitresses or whatever you
23 have in your establishment could serve a beer and you
24 wouldn't know that?
fl
25 A No. Well, if another customer would buy him a
871188
1 beer, I wouldn't know that either.
2 Q Okay. So really you have to rely on your senses
3 of observation to determine whether the person is intoxicated
4 or not?
5 A Yes.
6 Q They didn 't appear intoxicated to you with those
7 blood alcohol levels?
8 A No.
9 Q As I recall , you were called in the hearing
10 regarding Ernie ' s Tavern, do you remember testifying in that
11 case?
12 A The hearing?
I 13 Q Yes, the hearing in front of the Commission, you
L
14 came and testified, did you not in that case?
15 A Yes. I can't remember.
16 Q You don' t remember that?
17 A No.
18 Q You had not sold the tavern, you mean you had
19 leased?
20 A Leased it out with option to buy.
21 Q But he had never exercised that option, is that
22 correct?
23 A No, huh-uh.
24 Q You are indicating you couldn 't afford to hire
I
25 security personnel because you were paying off your mortgage?
871438
1 A Yes.
2 Q What were your mortgage payments?
3 A And plus that, the business had really went down.
4 Q What was your mortgage payment?
5 A Three hundred a month.
6 Q How much do security guards normally cost?
7 A Eight dollars an hour.
8 Q And you didn 't have any security guards during
9 this whole year of operation other than your father who kind
10 of was a semi security guard?
11 A Within this last two to three weeks, yes.
12 Q You have hired security guards within the last two
I 13 to three weeks, but prior that you didn't have any?
L.
14 A No.
15 MR. BROWN: That ' s all I have.
16 EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. MCINTYRE:
18 Q June, I wanted to clear one point up. With regard
19 to if you see someone visibly intoxicated in the bar, do you
20 continue to serve them?
21 A No.
22 Q And they either leave or they go sit for awhile or
23 whatever?
24 A They go and they like slump over, you know, put
L
25 their head on the table.
8?1= 3a
1 Q Okay. But or sometimes they leave?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Let ' s talk a little bit about your clientele. You
4 have indicated some come from quite aways away?
5 A Uh-huh.
6 Q Where does your majority of your people come from?
7 Do they come from the Eaton Greeley area?
8 A Right in the area I would say now and then some
9 will come in from Cheyenne. It ' s not like every weekend they
10 would come in from Cheyenne, no.
11 Q Okay. Are many of your clientele at this point
12 farm employees?
13 A Yes.
L
14 Q That live on farms around there?
15 A I would think so.
16 Q Thinking back during the first eight years, which
17 you had this license, do you remember any charges against you
18 for serving a minor?
19 A None.
20 Q Is it possible there may have been one that you
21 forgot?
22 A I don't know --
23 Q As far as you can remember, there weren ' t any?
24 A Yes.
I T
25 MR. MCINTYRE : I have nothing further.
871488
1 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions from the Board?
2 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Do you have a policy, if
3 not why, do you have a policy as far as your employees
4 drinking while they work, your father having a drink now and
5 then or your family that ' s serving tables or tending bar, do
6 you have any kind of a policy for them to drink or not to
7 drink when on duty?
8 A Yes. If they drink, they do not work that night.
9 They don't help me out. They just stay in there as a
10 customer, whatever .
11 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I had just one question.
12 You talked about your policy of telling certain habitual
I 13 troublemakers they cannot come back?
L i
14 A Yes.
15 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON : In the past year , how many
16 people have you given that to?
17 A Four or five of them.
18 CHAIRMAN LACY: Further questions? I have one
19 thing. Were you there the night of the shooting incident?
20 A Yes, I was.
21 MR. BROWN: You were on duty the entire night?
22 A Yes. I was right there by the victim so.
23 MR. MCINTYRE : For your benefit, Mike, she has
24 testified that she was sitting next to the victim when he was
I �
25 shot.
1 MR. BROWN: Fine.
2 MR. MCINTYRE : One further question.
3 Q (By Mr. McIntyre) When you say you 86 'ed four or
4 five people, by that you mean four or five specific
5 individuals or four or five groups of people, families
6 whatever?
7 A Families.
8 Q With regard to the fight that occurred across the
9 street at the aunt ' s house, do you remember that -- I think
10 it was September 27th?
11 A Yes. They are 86 'ed.
12 Q They are 86 'ed?
l 13 A Yes.
L J
14 Q The whole family?
15 A Yes.
16 CHAIRMAN LACY: Was this action taken before the
17 incident across the street or was it taken after?
18 A After.
19 CHAIRMAN LACY: Further questions? Witness may be
20 excused.
21 MR. MCINTYRE: We have no others that we intend to
22 call. I believe there may be some others here that wish to
23 address the Board concerning this.
24 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay, we would ask after you are
I 7
25 through with witnesses and Mr. Brown is through with the
871488
1 witnesses.
,_ 2 MR. BROWN: I have, if the Board would allow, I
3 have one witness I would like to call in rebuttal to some of
4 the things that were said here by his client.
5 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay.
6 MR. BROWN: Be real short if it is agreeable with
7 the Board?
8 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay.
9 MR. BROWN: I will call Officer Cooke, Deputy
10 Cooke, I should say.
11 JOHN COOKE,
12 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
F - I 13 the whole truth, testified on his oath as follows:
14 EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. BROWN:
16 Q Can you state your name for the record, please?
17 A John B. Cooke, C-o-o-k-e.
18 Q Are your employed, sir?
19 A I am an investigator with the Sheriff ' s Office.
20 Q Were you involved in that capacity when a homicide
21 was reported in the bar that we are concerned with here?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did you participate in the investigation of that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Did you take statements from various individuals
8'71188
1 who were in the bar?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Are you aware of what was reported as the conduct
4 of the suspect in that case?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Just prior to the shooting?
7 A Yes.
8 Q How was his conduct described by the individuals
9 who were in the bar?
10 A That he was out dancing on the dance floor acting
11 like a clown, drawing attention to himself. Doing a version
12 of the Mexican hat dance and dancing with a beer bottle.
13 Q So he was dancing with a better bottle in his
L J
14 hand?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Did they express any opinions as to whether or not
17 he appeared intoxicated?
18 A Yes.
19 Q What was the consensus of the opinions in the bar
20 of the people that you talked to?
21 A That he appeared drunk.
22 MR. BROWN: That' s all I have.
23 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions?
24 MR. MCINTYRE: No.
25 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. Questions from the Board
871488
1 for the officer? Witness may be excused. Any further
2 witnesses as far as the counsel is concerned? Excuse me.
3 MR. BROWN: No, sir.
4 MR. MCINTYRE : No, except I believe there are six
5 or seven people here supporting the application.
6 CHAIRMAN LACY: We will call them. At this time
7 then I would -- Bruce, we would consider to be finished with
8 the specific witnesses called by the counselor? We then can
9 go to people who are interested in speaking to this in
10 regards to the renewal of the license or nonrenewal of it?
11 Those specific people are -- are they allowed to be
12 cross-examined -- are they involved in cross-examination or
F_'I 13 examined by either counselor?
L
14 MR. BARKER: Well, I think probably one thing it ' s
15 in the nature of a public hearing, so they can come and speak
16 to those. Specifically, to the issues of we are looking at
17 today in the Phase II hearing.
18 CHAIRMAN LACY: Yes.
19 MR. BARKER: It ' s up to you as to how you would
20 like to conduct with the attorneys, if you would like to have
21 them ask questions after the persons have said whatever they
22 would like to say. I think it may be appropriate given that
23 we have gone through with that type of examination,
24 cross-examination to this point. I think it really depends
7
25 upon what these people have to say and if it raises any
871488
1 questions by either of the attorneys that they would like to
2 ask. So I guess what I am saying is it ' s really up to you as
3 to how you would like to handle that. It probably would be
4 appropriate to allow them to ask questions after the persons
5 have finished saying what they would like to say.
6 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. Does the Board have any
7 problem with that? Okay. Then at this time, we would call
8 forward anyone who would care to speak in regard to the
9 renewal of the license for La Garra. They can come forward
10 to the microphone, to the standing microphone and state your
11 name, your address and information that you might have for
12 the Board.
13 MR. BARKER: They should be sworn.
L
14 CHAIRMAN LACY: They have to be sworn in? So,
15 okay, if you will come to the microphone and the Court
16 Reporter will swear you in?
17 BETTY GALLEGOS,
18 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
19 the whole truth, testified on her oath as follows:
20 CHAIRMAN LACY: Your address and the information
21 that you have?
22 A Okay. I am Betty Gallegos. I am Jean ' s sister.
23 I work for the bar and I am also a resident. I have also
24 called the cops four times and not just because as a
H
25 bartender. I have called because I have had my window shot
871488
1 out. I have had the kids -- well, whatever you want to call
r—
2 them that are drinking on the corner. They are always
3 spinning in the dirt and I have had to call the cops so that
4 they could make a round and stop them because I am afraid
5 they are going to land up in my yard, because I have no
6 fence. I just feel they are just going to spin on there.
7 Okay, I do not communicate with my neighbors. That ' s why I
8 need the cops there, because half of them aren't
9 understanding people. They right away get violent and I am
10 always wrong even if I am right. Even one of the officers
11 can testify when I sent them over there to my neighbors,
12 because they shot out my window, even the cops told me, he
13 says, "No wonder you don't go over there because they are
i
14 violent, " and it ' s just the neighborhood there.
15 Okay, as far as working for Jean, I was there the
16 night of the homicide. I feel sorry for Nellie Garcia and I
17 feel sorry for Veronica, because they are the ones that are
18 paying for it. Also my sister is paying for it, because she
19 was bartending that night and she was there point blank
20 seeing the whole scene. We have been told when the people
21 are drunk, okay, her husband has a clowning attitude. He
22 goes out for a good time, laughing, joking and that ' s the way
23 he was that night. That ' s why I didn't think the man was
24 drunk. If he was drunk, I would have stopped him. It has
7
25 made my husband think second thoughts what he did because he
871.483
1 owns a gun and I tell him look what he did. My husband went
2 into shock seeing what the man had did.
3 I guess that ' s it, but like I said, I have called
4 the cops and it ' s only as a residence not as a bartender,
5 because half the calls that are called are after the bar is
6 closed and the people are still out there functioning the way
7 they do.
8 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. Are there first -- I guess
9 it doesn't make any difference of the procedure. We just
10 have any questions or any specific questions for the witness.
11 MR. BROWN: Yes, I would just like to clarify.
12 EXAMINATION
13 BY MR. BROWN:
L J
14 Q I wasn 't quite sure what you were indicating when
15 you called the police and you live in the neighborhood, I
16 take it?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And you have called the police after the bar has
19 closed and the people are still hanging around?
20 A It 's not the customers that are doing this. See,
21 we have a gravel road. It ' s the main street and then it ' s --
22 well, my mobile home faces the street and these kids -- I
23 will say they are kids because they are not patrons of the
24 bar. I have even had to call Nellie Garcia and say will you
25 tell your son-in-law to quit driving like that because I am
c»ma4 ACQ
1 afraid they are going to land up in my front yard and on top
2 of the trucks because of the fact that high view of the
3 street is just there. I have woken up at 3 o' clock and the
4 people are still out spinning in the dirt.
5 Q So these people that are causing the problem are
6 not from the bar?
7 A No, they are not.
8 Q How do they just pick your street?
9 A They pick the corner street. They are all kids
10 like Galeton and maybe Eaton and Greeley and they just all
11 form in that little corner there.
12 Q They just pick this isolated spot in east Eaton to
1-1 13 come and meet in?
L J
14 A They do. Even the County can verify that these --
15 that one certain crowd on the corner because I have called,
16 because for the fact they start driving that way.
17 Q You have never seen anybody from the bar out there
18 causing any problems?
19 A No.
20 MR. BROWN: No further questions.
21 A I would like to also add is another thing that the
22 kids that are there, I wouldn 't call them charas or street
23 walkers or that, but they don't get along with the illegal
24 aliens at all, at all, so they just keep to their side and
I
25 they are kept apart.
B9I4RR
1 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions?
2 MR. MCINTYRE: I have no questions.
3 CHAIRMAN LACY: Does the Board have any questions?
4 Okay. Thank you.
5 A Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN LACY: Is there anyone else who cares to
7 speak?
8 DONNA ARVIZO,
9 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
10 the whole truth, testified on her oath as follows:
11 CHAIRMAN LACY: Your name and address.
12 A Donna Arvizo, 1500 North 2nd Avenue Court. I have
13 gone to that bar when I was 16 years old in 1973. A guy took
L J
14 me. He was an older man. He took to that bar. He was my
15 boy friend and it was not under Jean's ownership at the time.
16 I had to walk out and hide in front of him because there was
17 so much shooting going on around there. That was in 1973. I
18 am now a regular customer. I was scared to death to go in
19 that bar for years until Jean had it. Now, I am a pretty
20 regular customer. I go up about every other weekend, if I am
21 not working.
22 I also work in a bar with my brother-in-law still
23 and I go there all the time and I have never had any trouble
24 inside the bar with anybody. But I have had trouble when I
25 walked out of the bar with the neighbors. And that 's because
8714,
1 they are all outside grinning and getting rowdy and they are
;_ 2 rowdy people. And they don 't -- I see the same girls here in
3 Greeley in the bars I work in or the bars I am in and they
4 never say anything. It ' s -- I don ' t know why they pick right
5 there, just that street to cause their trouble, but I go
6 there all the time and there ' s -- I have never had a problem.
7 I have never seen even a bad fight in there and I,
8 myself, I don't get intoxicated to where I am falling or any
9 of that. Yes, I enjoy drinking. I enjoy dancing and for the
10 dancing around and making a clown out of himself, I do that
11 stone sober. We girls get together all -- us girls will get
12 together and we just put the jutebox on, get us a bottle of
13 beer and we just dance around and we have a good time and
L
14 that ' s just girls. We don 't even have a dancing partner. So
15 as for making a clown of himself, I don't believe that
16 necessarily meant that the man was intoxicated. No, I wasn ' t
17 there that night. I was supposed to be, but I did not ever
18 make it. I was working for my brother the night of the
19 homicide, but I do know some people that were there and the
20 lady that was there, she said that the man didn 't look like
21 he was any more out of the ordinary than anybody else.
22 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions from counselor?
23 EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. BROWN:
25 Q You are indicating that you have gone there and
871488
1 you have never seen any fights, nothing you would consider --
2 A Not anything other than a nice little argument
3 that if it starts, they right away say, "Guys, if you want to
4 have a disagreement, then go somewhere else because you are
5 here to have a good time. You are not here to break the
6 place up or bother the people. "
7 Q You have never seen my blows being struck against
8 anybody inside then?
9 A I have seen maybe one hit and then they will
10 say, "Hey, guys, that ' s it. Stop. " And they either quit.
11 Usually they quit and they just, you know.
12 Q Or they send it outside in the barking lot?
13 A No, they don 't send it outside in the parking lot
L J
14 either. Like I say, usually that I have seen anything they
15 quit then and there and they just stay away from each other.
16 Q So you have never been there during any of the
17 incidents that were reported in the first phase of this?
18 A No.
19 Q So you didn 't witness any of these incidents?
20 A No, to be trouble I have ever seen. I was a
21 regular customer . I was there every weekend when Ernie had
22 it.
23 Q And you didn 't see any problems when Ernie had it
24 either?
L
25 A Yes, but that was outside. It was always outside.
8'71488
1 Q But those problems didn't stop you from going
2 there?
3 A Sometimes it did. It got to where we told Ernie,
4 "Hey, this just doesn't make any sense. "
5 Q Now, are you related in any way to any of the
6 ownership of this?
7 A No, I am not.
8 Q But you are good friends with them, I take it?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Because you spend a lot of time in the bar?
11 A Yeah.
12 MR. BROWN: Nothing further.
13 EXAMINATION
L i
14 BY MR. MCINTYRE:
15 Q Have you -- you say you have worked in other
16 establishments?
17 A Yes.
18 Q You have seen the action that the employees of La
19 Garra take when a dispute occurs inside, is that correct?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Do you feel their actions are appropriate?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Does it appear to stop the disputes and settle
24 them?
25 A Yes. I just quit working in a bar myself that I
871488
1 worked for a year and-a-half and we had more trouble than I
_ 2 have ever seen Jean have.
3 MR. MCINTYRE : I have nothing further.
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. BROWN:
6 Q What bar was that?
7 A The L & C Bar.
8 Q Where is that?
9 A It ' s on North 9th Avenue.
10 Q And you indicated you have seen these same
11 individuals that are in the bar up there in bars down here
12 and they don' t act the same way as they act up there?
13 A That ' s true. And I have seen them in different
L J
14 bars. I have worked in every bar in the north area.
15 Q So the only bar they act crazy in like this is up
16 there, not down here?
17 A No. They act like that everywhere, if that ' s what
18 they feel like acting like. It just depends. Nobody acts
19 the same every week.
20 Q I thought you just said that you had seen them
21 down here?
22 A The girls, those women, yes. No, they don' t.
23 Down here, they don't. They won't turn their face and say a
24 word to anybody.
25 Q But they do in Ernie 's?
871488
1 A They are not in the bar. They are outside the
2 bar . They are on the street. You walk out into the street
3 and they start trouble.
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. MCINTYRE :
6 Q The ladies that Mr. Brown is asking you about, am
7 I correct in remembering earlier testimony in that they are
8 not patrons of the bar but they are neighbors of it up there?
9 A That ' s right.
10 Q And they cause as neighbors problems outside the
11 bars?
12 A That ' s right.
13 MR. MCINTYRE : Thank you.
L
14 CHAIRMAN LACY : Questions from the Board? Thank
15 you. You may be excused. Anyone else who cares to speak in
16 regard to the renewal?
17 GENEVA LOPEZ,
18 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
19 the whole truth, testified on her oath as follows :
20 CHAIRMAN LACY: Your name and address.
21 A Geneva Lopez, 1324 7th Street, Number 1, Greeley.
22 I am here because I worked for Ernie when Ernie had the bar
23 and I have seen the difference the way Jean is handling the
24 business now and I think she is really giving an effort to
I n
25 trying to keep the place clean and going by all the rules.
871-188
1 What happened is very unfortunate with the homicide. We had --
2 when Ernie had the bar, we had a lot of trouble and that was
3 not with the patrons of the bar. It was the neighbors next
4 door . We had to call the Sheriff ' s Office maybe about five
5 or six times and everytime we called them, it was always --
6 in fact the neighbors that were having the problems and then
7 same -- I think the bar is always going to have trouble as
8 long as those people hang around outside and they drink and
9 they harass the customers coming out of the bar.
10 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions?
11 EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. BROWN:
13 Q When you say neighbors, you don' t mean one family,
L J
14 you mean numerous families, I take it?
15 A Well, it ' s one family with numerous people in it
16 involved.
17 Q And those are the only people that ever cause any
18 trouble up there?
19 A Well , while I was there, yes.
20 Q What ' s the name of that family?
21 A Antiviro and Martinez .
22 Q So they live in one residence or several
23 residences around the area?
24 A They live in a house next door to the bar and some
1
25 of the family come from Greeley.
8'71188
1 Q None of the patrons inside the bar ever cause any
2 problems?
3 A I was in the bar two weeks ago and it was so quiet
4 in the bar. It was good to relax and sit there and have a
5 beer without being harassed. But as soon as we walked out,
6 we had trouble with the girls that live next door.
7 Q Do you work at all in the bar at this point in
8 time?
9 A No, I don't. I like to go to the bar because I
10 feel comfortable in the bar.
11 Q Do you know all the people?
12 A I know all the people. I also work in a bar right
F"1 13 now.
14 Q Where are you working?
15 A I work at the L & C Bar and Restaurant.
16 Q You work with the person that just -- or she is
17 not working there now?
18 A No, she doesn 't.
19 Q But she had worked with you previously?
20 A Uh-huh. And we do get a lot of rowdy people in
21 there. We do and it ' s hard, because you don 't know if some
22 have had enough to drink and some haven't had enough to
23 drink. Even when they are sober, they go in there acting up.
24 You just have to use your own judgment.
25 Q Some people have better judgment than other people
871188
1 in determining when someone is intoxicatd?
2 A Well , when I think you are watching a bar you are
3 going to use your judgment better.
4 Q Well , some people have better judgment though than
5 other people, right?
6 A Right.
7 MR. BROWN: That ' s all I have.
8 MR. MCINTYRE : No questions.
9 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions from the Board? Thank
10 you. Further testimony -- is there anyone else who cares to
11 come forward at this time?
12 FRANCISCA BENITEZ,
13 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
14 the whole truth, testified on her oath as follows :
15 CHAIRMAN LACY: Your name and address, please?
16 A Francisca Benitez, 1931 2nd Street, number 3.
17 CHAIRMAN LACY: I am sorry, what was the City?
18 A Greeley.
19 CHAIRMAN LACY: What was your name again?
20 A Francisca Benitez.
21 CHAIRMAN LACY: You may proceed.
22 A Well, I been at the bar a few times. I don 't go a
23 whole lot. I don 't go out too much, but I have been there on
24 several occasions. Like I went with some friends on New
25 Year 's Eve. We had a good time. It was packed. I wasn 't
871/88
1 there until the end. But, you know, what I was there, I had
2 a good time. I was there a few times. I know some of the
3 people that go there and like it ' s hard in the bar. I like
4 going there. I just -- you know, have a good time and I go.
5 I don 't know what else to say.
6 CHAIRMAN LACY: Do you have any questions? Just a
7 moment, please.
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. MCINTYRE :
10 Q Just one. When you been there, have June and her
11 family been able to maintain control of the people in the
12 bar?
F. 13 A Yes, sir.
L
14 Q And then the security guard they have had there?
15 A Well, I think one of the times that I went awhile
16 back when I first came to Greeley, they did have security
17 then and like I say, I never really, really stayed a whole
18 thing when I been there, but I go there. The service have
19 been good. They wait on you right and I enjoy it. I like
20 dancing there.
21 MR. MCINTYRE : I have nothing further .
22 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions from the Board? Thank
23 you.
24 LEANNE ZERMENO,
25 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
871483
1 the whole truth, testified on her oath as follows :
2 CHAIRMAN LACY: Your name and address, please?
3 A Leanne Zermeno, 1912 1st Street, Number 3,
4 Greeley.
5 CHAIRMAN LACY: You may proceed.
6 A I been up to the bar in Eaton, the one in question
7 on numerous occasions. I have never had any trouble in
8 there. I have never seen any problems in there. Yes, I do
9 know a few of the patrons that go in there, because I do work
10 in a bar myself. But the people that I have seen up there,
11 they have never caused any problems for me or with anyone
12 else while I was there. I don't go up there real often.
13 Once in a awhile I will go up there, though, and I do have
L
14 fun when I go up there.
15 CHAIRMAN LACY: Any further comments? Questions?
16 MR. MCINTYRE : No.
17 MR. BROWN: No.
18 CHAIRMAN LACY: Board have any questions? Thank
19 you. Is there anyone who cares to speak?
20 GLORIA GUEVARA,
21 a witness herein, having been first duly sworn to state
22 the whole truth, testified on her oath as follows :
23 CHAIRMAN LACY: Your name and address, please.
24 A Okay. Gloria Guevara, 3210 West 4th Street in
25 Greeley. I have known Jean and her family for 19 years. I
871488
1 used to go -- I went there when she had it the first time. I
2 went there when Ernie had it and I been in there since she
3 got it back again. And I have never ever had any problem in
4 there. As a matter of fact, as early as September of this
5 year, since they didn't have security guards, I saw her
6 father personally escort somebody outside who had too much to
7 drink, put him in a car with somebody who could safely drive
8 him home, so I know that they do care about their customers.
9 CHAIRMAN LACY: Further comments?
10 A No.
11 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions from Mike or Keith?
12 MR. BROWN: No.
13 CHAIRMAN LACY: Questions from the Board? Thank
L
14 you. Is there any further comments from members of the
15 audience? There being none, at this time then I would
16 presume we have a summation from counsel as far as tike is
17 concerned and Keith. So Mike, if you would go ahead.
18 MR. BARKER: I guess could I suggest maybe we take
19 about a one to two minute break. I don 't know.
20 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay.
21 (Short break tkane. )
22 CHAIRMAN LACY: We will reconvene the hearing at
23 this time. We will have the summation by Mr. Brown.
24 MR. BROWN: Should it not be the other way around?
1
25 Mr. McIntyre?
8714;83
1 CHAIRMAN LACY: That ' s fine.
2 MR. BROWN: It ' s his application. I think it
3 should be the open and close. He gets two bites. I get one.
4 CHAIRMAN LACY: Sorry.
5 MR. BROWN: That ' s unusual.
6 CHAIRMAN LACY: Make them short .
7 MR. MCINTYRE : Hey, I am not very tall to begin
8 with. You don't want me any shorter? As Garfield says, I am
9 not overweight, I am simply under tall.
10 Okay. Now, with the levities out of the way,
11 let ' s get down to the serious business at hand. Subject at
12 hand is the renewal of the license for the establishment
13 known as La Garra. The actions we been dealing with or that
L
14 we been talking about have been within the last year since
15 June Rosales, now Faudoa came back in, and I never pronounce
16 her name right, came back in and took over the bar. I think
17 one of the things that this Board needs to remember and keep
18 in mind in dealing with the subject of this renewal is the
19 fact that June has had this bar before. June took the bar
20 over in a bad situation, much as she has taken it over now.
21 One of the witnesses alluded to the fact that in '73,
22 shootings that occurred under a different manager. She took
23 it over. It took her a little while to get it cleaned up as
24 witnesses said right away after she got the license, but she
25 got it cleaned up and she ran it clean for eight years.
571488
1 Never come in before this Board for a suspension or a contest
2 on renewal . At least of best of our memory and I represented
3 her in those original actions. She did a good job with a bad
4 situation.
5 Now, she has had to take it back over again.
6 Taken it back over from a man who had it, I believe for two
7 years, and I believe was in front of this Board twice in the
8 two years he had it. She is in the process of cleaning that
9 bar up again. She has told you how you have to go about it.
10 You identify the troublemakers, you 86 them. You get them
11 out of there. You build the clientele that ' s willing to live
12 within your rules. And she is in the process of doing it.
n`I 13 The particular family and I have forgotten the
L
14 names, the Antiviors and the Gallegos, I can' t remember, has
15 come up several times in this. It ' s come up with June ' s
16 sister ' s testimony, about the neighbors that she has called
17 the police on. It ' s come up in one of the other ladies who
18 came forward to talk about the difficulties with that family.
19 It also came up with regard to the September 27th incident,
20 if you will remember. That involved that family in a fight
21 that occurred across the street at their aunt ' s house, but is
22 here being blamed on us. We have control of the premises
23 within. We have control of the premises in the parking lot,
24 but with the exception of a technical violation for serving a
I
25 minor and you have heard the explanation of those and the
871488
1 shooting that occurred inside, all of the other violations we
2 are talking about occurred off of the premises.
3 Now, Sergeant McGuirk says that they occur all
4 different nights of the week and fairly steadily once or
5 twice apparently a month is what he says, but for the last
6 six months, any that didn 't occur on Friday and/or, I am
7 sorry Saturday and Sunday nights can 't be the obligation of
8 La Garra because we haven' t been open. La Garra has been
9 open Saturday and Sunday nights since March. That ' s all.
10 That ' s part of the process of cleaning this bar up. That ' s
11 what she is doing.
12 Security guards, she has her own employees working
F-1 13 security inside. I don't know whether an outside service
L
14 would be better. We are willing to try that. An outside
15 service didn 't stop the four people from getting stabbed in
16 Longmont with a big knife that a guy took in through the
17 security guards. It ' s not a be all and end all . What June
18 Faudoa has done in the past with this bar and what she is
19 doing -- in the process of doing again is what holds down
20 trouble and that is selectively moving the clientele out.
21 The people who cause problems.
22 As a practical matter, if this bar is shut down,
23 they are going to be moved to another bar. If June continues
24 what she is doing, they are going to be moved to another bar
25 because she won 't let them in there and she has shown that
871488
1 and she is trying to run this bar right. She has nine years
J 2 behind her of running this bar and this is really the first
3 time we have come in on what amounts to a motion to revoke.
4 We would submit that at the very worst , at this
5 point, she should be given a suspension at the most. And not
6 a revocation. Not on this time.
7 The service to a minor, as the Board remembers,
8 one of them someone else bought it, went to the bar and
9 bought who was of age, took it back and gave it to the minor.
10 One of them, no identification, but the mother said that ' s my
11 son, he is 21. Foolish to rely on that perhaps, but the
12 mother had been a customer in there and she relied on it.
1 13 The other one was a mistake. A violation. And perhaps she
14 does deserve a short suspension because of that.
15 The shooting that occurred, all the security in
16 the world can't stop every incident in a bar. June was
17 sitting right beside the man who was shot and said there was
18 no way, no warning that it was going to happen. She is doing
19 her best to try to clean this situation up again and run this
20 as a decent bar .
21 You heard the ladies come in and testify who say
22 that they go in there. They feel safe. They don't have a
23 problem with it. The only problem they have is what with the
24 neighbors that are outside, not ones in the bar . To some
7
25 extent in meeting the charges that have been brought against
871488
72
1 us here, it 's kind of like driving a bowl of jello, because
- 2 we talk to Sergeant McGuirk who talks about offenses that
3 were apparently called in but no reports made. We don't know
4 what they were. They occurred within a square mile. He
5 can 't say whether they were involved with the bar or not.
6 You look at the ones that were involved in those four and
7 three of them -- two of them are on one night, arose out of
8 the bar. Everything else was off the premises. Some of them
9 down on highway 85. Some of them across the street.
10 We would submit that the evidence doesn ' t justify
11 revocation. We would ask the Board to look at the factors
12 involved, whatever it is, nine, ten factors that determine
F-1 13 what the Board should do and mitigation and aggravation.
14 Corrective action. We do now have outside security guards.
15 Although she ran for some six years with inside security
16 guards and worked very well .
17 Prior violations, offenses and occurences, nothing
18 for long periods of time until today. Until this year and
19 then she took over a bad violation or bad situation. Prior
20 violations and offenses by the licensee. There don 't appear
21 to be any. Violation offense or occurence or repeated
22 course. Repeated yes, but in a number of once or twice per
23 month on the average. We don 't know what they are. Other
24 than the twelve that are there, most of which occurred in the
L
25 first six months. The likelihood of reoccurence. We will
871488
1 \ubmit based on what June showed that there isn ' t a lot of
2 likelihood. Circumstances, we have gone through.
3 Willfulness of violation. I don't think there is
4 any willfulness of violation here at all. The length of
5 time, the license has been held by the licensee when you
6 consider both times she has held, it works distinctly in her
7 favor. Having held it and operated for some nine years
8 without a revocation, without a suspension, without appearing
9 before this Board with the exception that first year when she
10 took over a bad situation. Previous sanctions against this
11 licensee, none.
12 Other factors making the situation unique. We
7I 13 would submit looking at these factors the most that is
L
14 justified is a suspension, perhaps a three, five, ten days.
15 We would ask that that be entered. The Board may wish to
16 impose security guards. We are in a position where we can do
17 that. That 300 a month that doesn' t have to go -- that we
18 paid for the building can now be used for security, although
19 we feel in all honesty and from would has been shown here
20 that she does a good job of maintaining security. We would
21 ask that the Board renew the license in this case.
22 MR. BROWN: Unlike Mr . McIntyre, I am not going to
23 ask that the Court renew the license, I am going to ask that
24 or that the Commission revoke the license, not renew the
25 license. I think there are a number of factors that would
cv-,4 A cQ
1 lead the Commissioners to find in that particular situation.
2 We must look at the seriousness of the violation in terms of
3 the affront to the public. Well, a lot of stress has been
4 placed on the homicide that occurred in the bar. Certainly
5 we don't need to spend a lot of time talking about how
6 serious that is and what affront to the community that is,
7 but we should also not forget the other reports of criminal
8 things that have been associated with the bar someway and
9 which were submitted as apart of Exhibit C, which I have
10 here, which includes some twelve violations. Those include
11 police reports. That exhibit includes police reports
12 attached to it covering some of the exhibits. There are
13 several police reports that were previously submitted to the
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14 Commissioners when the initial consideration of setting this
15 for hearing came up. But I think the Board has those items
16 in front of it or will have those items in front of it when I
17 return Exhibit C. We have, I believe two assaultive type of
18 cases. We have a simple assault and they occur from the
19 beginning of her takeover all the way up through, I believe,
20 September of this year. So we need to take a look at all of
21 those offenses and I would ask the Commission do that .
22 I won't spend the time in argument going through
23 those, but there are situations that involve broken legs.
24 There are situations that involve attempted sexual assaults.
25 There are situations involving contacts for all kinds of
891488
1 behavior that is contributed to by the alcohol being served
2 at the bar. As I appointed out in questioning some of the
3 witnesses, we also need to look at what 's been said about
4 their steps to correct from serving people that are clearly
5 intoxicated at the bar. We have statements made by the owner
6 and the Applicant here on the license that they don 't serve
7 to people that are obviously intoxicated. But yet, we have
8 the testimony of Officer Cooke, who indicates that in this
9 particular homicide situation when they had a chance to
10 interview many of the witnesses who were present, the
11 individual who was a suspect in that case was out dancing
12 around acting like a clown with a beer bottle in his hand and
13 when we test him for blood alcohol, I believe he was the one
L. J
14 showing a point 190 blood alcohol level. I believe most
15 people know at this point that a point 1 is sufficient under
16 the laws of the State for an arrest and conviction for
17 driving under the influence and I would submit to you that
18 point 190 is almost twice the legal limit for driving.
19 So we have that, one of the people being involved
20 having a point 19. We have the other person, another person
21 being involved with a point 163. Those people were both in
22 the bar is my understanding of the situation that existed out
23 there. But yet these people say they did not appear to be
I_ , 24 drunk.
25 Also, her explanation of what they do when people
1 appear to be drunk and her definition of a person that had
.. 2 had too much to drink was a person that would sit down at a
3 table and slump over. That was one that she would take them
4 and put them in the corner and let them sleep it off. So you
5 have to look at the standards that she has imposed, what kind
6 of decisions is she making as a manager/owner of the bar as
7 the licensee? Those types of serious violations we have.
8 The testimony that ' s been presented and you have those in the
9 police reports as well and you need to consider those.
10 Number two, the corrective action taken by the
11 licensee holder. I have only been involved in two of these
12 applications or these renewal processes and they have both
r 13 involved this particular geographic location. And that
14 location, of course, when we came before the Commission to
15 have the hearing, they had begun to make remedial progress.
16 MR. MCINTYRE : I am going to object to a prior
17 licensee hearing being brought in for consideration in this
18 license.
19 MR. BROWN: My response to that would be Mr.
20 McIntyre cannot have it both ways. He has argued from the
21 beginning of her license, he has presented evidence on how
22 the situation was at Ernie 's Bar. He has argued that in his
23 closing and now he is attempting to keep me from arguing the
24 same periods of time that he has already tried to use. I
25 think it would be inappropriate for the Commission to limit
871488
1 my argument from things that occurred in Ernie ' s.
2 MR. MCINTYRE : I am not arguing his right to deal
3 with those. I am arguing his right to try to use anything
4 that Ernie may have done in his bar against us. That ' s what
5 I am trying to say. We were not the licensee.
6 MR. BROWN: He has already tried to argue the
7 situation at Ernie ' s to support that it 's been better here,
8 so I don ' t think that I should be limited.
9 MR. BARKER: I think technically, I think Keith is
10 correct in that the idea concerning that there may have been
11 violations when Ernie was the licensee, those cannot be
12 considered in the sense that those -- that June had capacity
H13 to remedy those. However, I believe Keith was making the
14 distinction between the way it was when Ernie was running it
15 and how it had changed since June had taken over. And so,
16 that would probably be wise to limit and all references to
17 the bar when it was under Ernie ' s license to that sort of a
18 comparison.
19 MR. MCINTYRE: I don 't object to him talking about
20 Ernie 's Bar and what happened in there, I object to his trying
21 to use it against us.
22 CHAIRMAN LACY: I agree, Mr. McIntyre. Thank you.
23 MR. BROWN: My point would only be that the
24 remedial, the same type of remedial action that has now been
25 taken, the corrective action that is being taken by this
C'^14 A CO
1 license holder was also taken immediately by Ernie once his
2 license became in jeopardy. So I would suggest to the
3 Commission that the license holder, this is the typical thing
4 you are going to see in a revocation hearing. Whenever the
5 license becomes in question, then the remedial measures
6 begin. We are going -- we are -- I am going to lose the bar,
7 what can I do to keep the bar from being lost? So I am going
8 to go out and I am telling you now that all of a sudden I can
9 afford to hire security personnel . I couldn't afford to hire
10 them up to this point, but I can now and I am going to do so
11 and that ' s all you ought to make because that would correct
12 the problem.
13 So as far as any corrective things, other than the
L
14 fact she is now saying she has hired security personnel or is
15 willing to do that, the other corrective action she says she
16 is taking is she has 86 -- to use her terminology, certain
17 families from the bar. She has 86 'ed four families she
18 indicates over the course of the year. Well, I would submit
19 that there are more than four offenses occurring and they
20 don' t involve -- I would submit they probably don' t involve
21 the families that she has kicked out of the bar .
22 The prior violation and offenses of the licensed
23 premises, she is asking you to go back and look at a
24 situation that existed previously. She is asking you to go
25 back some ten years into her history, the first six years she
871488
1 operated the bar. Well, the fact is the make up of the bar,
2 the people that frequent the bar has changed a great deal .
3 Now that may be because of the way Ernie ran it. It may just
4 be a continuing change in the geographic distribution of
5 people throughout the County and the people that frequent
6 that bar, but she has to accept the clientle as she has it
7 and take care of the situation that ' s out there. She has not
8 done that over a full year period. Continue to have
9 violations. The same type of alcohol related violations
10 during the first year.
11 If she was serious about changing that situation,
12 she could close the bar with any client that ever begins to
r'-1 13 give problems in the bar. She can kick those people out.
L A
14 She can take a lot more steps than she has done, which the
15 reports certainly indicate she has not done -- taken
16 sufficient steps to take care of that, although she has had
17 all of these kinds of disturbance calls that are associated
18 with the bar.
19 Again, this is the first chance really the
20 Commission has had to review any violations that occurred out
21 there, because it ' s the license renewal period. So as far as
22 that, if we had four or five years of continuous operation
23 since she took over this last time, the Court or the
24 Commission might have a better view of what kind of remedial
25 action she has taken. But we have to look at the year
871488
1 period, the first time you have had a chance to review
2 because it is the license renewal period, so it ' s a violation
3 within her first period of operation.
4 We look at the repeated course of conduct. We
5 don't have just the one event. We have it spread out
6 throughout the entire year. I think if you look at the
7 reports, you can see that they are all tied. There is some
8 reference to the fact that the conduct either resulted in the
9 bar or as a result of something at the bar flowing out into
10 the parking lot or out onto the highways of Weld County. So
11 we have a continuous course of conduct and not just a single
12 event .
13 The likelihood of reoccurence. The witnesses that
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14 support the bar indicate these types of things are going to
15 continue. Now, they blame it on people in the area outside
16 the bar, but I think that ' s something the Commissioners need
17 to consider too. Is this the appropriate place for a bar of
18 this type in a neighborhood? It ' s the only business I am
19 acquainted with that is in that area. The rest is a
20 residential area. So I think you have to look at the
21 likelihood of reoccurence, not only inside the bar but also
22 in the parking lot and the areas controlled by the bar. If
23 this type of setting occurs, it may not be the appropriate
24 place for a bar in that neighborhood.
25 All the circumstances surrounding the violation.
8'71483
1 We have a number of things that had been testified to as far
2 as serving of liquor to minors. She says that she has taken
3 great pains to see that that ' s not done, but yet we have
4 three different tickets being issued during the course of
5 this year license. We have one being explained as a mistake,
6 one being explained as she just relied on a family member.
7 Well, she can't do that under the law. She has to require
8 identification and she does not do that. Her other employees
9 did not do that. So she can' t try to excuse her conduct by
10 simply saying we believed our customer .
11 The willfulness of the violation or violations.
12 Once again, if they don' t present an i .d. , they are not to be
13 served. And she went ahead and served them violating the
L
14 laws, so she made a decision or her employees made a decision
15 that, "Okay, I will trust this person, even though no i.d.
16 has been supplied to me and I will serve that individual . "
17 The law doesn't provide that you can trust an individual you
18 know without an i .d. . It provides that they have to be able
19 to show that they are of age -- of drinking age.
20 Hardship on the licensee of the penalty imposed.
21 I don't know that very much evidence was presented on that.
22 It certainly wasn ' t presented in today ' s testimony. Maybe it
23 was in previous hearings, so I will leave that alone, but I
24 don 't think that should be the principal concern of the
25 Commission in this particular hearing.
STI`L 3&
1 Other factors making the situation unique to the
2 licensee or premises subjected to discipline. Again, she has
3 inherited the customers and clientele of her bar when she
4 previously ran it, plus whatever clientele were picked up or
5 changed when Ernie had it and she has now had it another
6 year. She has testified that most of her customers are not
7 from the Eaton area. They are from Fort Collins. They are
8 from as far away as Cheyenne and they are from Greeley and I
9 think that that ' s another thing that the Commission should
10 keep in mind is whether or not this bar is needed in that
11 location by the persons around the area. Again, it ' s an
12 unique situation that has existed now for three years. Two,
13 I believe under Ernie ' s licensee and now under her license,
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14 that we continue to have problems at the bar, which require
15 this Court to hold licensing hearings and lengthy licensing
16 hearings.
17 I think based on all of those factors, all of the
18 continuing problems that we have and everything that is
19 outlined by the various reports, police reports, Sheriff ' s
20 Office reports that have been submitted, that the license
21 should not be renewed. It should be revoked out of concern
22 for the public and I would ask the Commission to do that. To
23 not renew the license to revoke the license.
24 MR. MCINTYRE : Briefly in summary, there is a few
25 things that I would like to touch on that Mr. Brown touched
871488
1 on. Mr. Brown mentioned the serving of people who were
2 visibly intoxicated. I find myself at a little bit of a loss
3 to see why we were spending a great deal of time on this when
4 this wasn 't one of the grounds that was charged for the
5 violation. But I would point out Mr. Brown very carefully
6 stated that, as most of you are aware, the legal limit for
7 driving under the influence of point 10. That may be
8 correct. But the Statute we are dealing with deals with
9 visibly intoxicated. The legal limit providing under the
10 influence, for driving under the influence not while
11 intoxicated has nothing to do when a person who is visibly
12 intoxicated. You will find that that varies a great deal
F - ! 13 from one person to another and I think that was fairly
L
14 obvious by some of the people who spoke to you here today.
15 There was some talk about the person who did the
16 shooting, Rosales Santos, I believe is the name, being visibly
17 intoxicated. That was on hearsay from the officer. We had
18 some other hearsay here. She said yes, I have seen him like
19 that before and he wasn't drunk. What ' s drunk? What is
20 visibly intoxicated? One certainly isn 't able to determine
21 in many cases.
22 Mr. Brown argued the attempted sexual assault that
23 occurred somewhere on Highway 85. Well away from the
24 premises. Says that and the shooting were attributed to by
25 the alcohol. That may be a good argument for prohibition,
871488
1 but I don't know that it ' s an argument to close this
_ 2 particular bar down. It ' s been attributed to by alcohol.
3 He talks about the problems over the last three
4 years being what should be used to close the bar down.
5 Clearly, we are not dealing -- we are not liable for what
6 Ernie did. We are trying to correct that. It was mentioned
7 of corrective actions. Security guards. You say security
8 guards are the panacea. This is what ' s going to correct the
9 problem. Hogwash. We haven't said that and we don't say
10 that. We said if you want them, we will provide them. But
11 for a period of six to eight years, those premises were
12 controlled with internal people, her family, as she said, who
13 knew the people who were in there and knew when to stop them
L
14 from getting too rowdy. They could handle them. We feel
15 that that ' s better than security guards, but if you feel
16 security guards, we will put the security guards in.
17 What ' s important in handling any bar, whether it
18 be this bar or any other bar , is what June is trying to do,
19 and that ' s tailoring clientele to yourself. Weed out the bad
20 ones. There is four families that have been 86 'ed. How many
21 other people won't be back there, because she is cracking
22 down on them? It ' s what it takes. But you have to get
23 control and it takes time to get control.
24 Look at the criminal charges. He talks about
25 Exhibit C. Most of the earlier ones are included in Exhibit
871488
1 C. They are apart of those. But take a look at them, see
_ 2 what they are. They are off the premises. Here it is. Half
3 of them found nothing when they were there. They were
4 reports. I think I counted four or something like that, that
5 there was nothing there when they got there. I have outlined
6 for you the ones that occurred on the premises and the
7 officers talked about those. Exhibit C was thrown in as an
8 afterthought prepared the day before the hearing.
9 Yes, she was wrong in serving. Most specifically
10 in the one case when her bartender served the young lady that
11 the Police Department sent in there. And yes, I think this
12 Board is probably justified in taking some action. But
fl-I 13 looking at the nine years she has operated this, looking at
J
14 the lack of problems this Board has had with that license
15 when she has been the licensee, I think a revocation is far
16 too extreme a remedy. And we would recommend, as I said
17 earlier, anything, that the licensee be given a suspension
18 for a limited period of time.
19 Other factors you want to involve -- if you want
20 outside security guards, we will keep them. We feel that we
21 are going to keep the internal ones anyway, because we feel
22 those are more effective. We will put in outside security
23 guards, although they are not totally effective, particularly
24 against something that happened like last March.
L 1
25 I didn't deal with the effect on the licensee
871488►
1 because I think that was in Ordinance 102. I don't think it
2 exists in Ordinance 102, which is what we are under today. I
3 don 't find it in the list today, so I am not even going to
4 touch on that. I have gone through it.
5 I think the two things -- no, I think I have
6 covered it adequately enough. It ' s up to the Board. We are
7 in your hands with your discretion and we are relying on it.
8 Thank you.
9 MR. BARKER : Mr . Chairman, I would like to point
10 out and Keith touched only the first thing concerning visibly
11 intoxicated. I believe that on Monday the motion was made by
12 Jackie to consider the visibly intoxicated part as to
F-! 13 specifically item number 2 , which dealt with the rowdiness
L
14 and the problems of rowdiness and on an ongoing continuous
15 basis, is that correct?
16 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I made it as part of the
17 motion, but I suggested in both parts and I have my notes
18 here, that I felt that there had been evidence suggested that
19 intoxicated persons had been served in the bar and that that
20 serving had created conditions related to Number 2 .
21 MR. BARKER: The resolution and also the probable
22 cause hearing, there was not evidence which was presented at
23 that time specifically as to the visibly intoxicated and I
24 think it was also relating to more or less what had happened,
I 1
25 occurred at the bar, the incidents specifically there. And
871488
1 so in the resolution --
2 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON : I agree. There was
3 evidence submitted concerning the murder suspect ' s behavior
4 and all indications that he was vixibly intoxicated in first
5 Phase I hearing.
6 MR. BARKER: Okay. Yes, that ' s correct. And so I
7 guess what I was going to say was that should probably be
8 relating specifically to item number 2 . I guess the main
9 thing is the resolution said only specifically there is
10 evidence of persons under the age of 21 years old having been
11 served malt, vinous, or spirituous liquors at this
12 establishment. So Keith ' s point is that his client was not
F ! 13 given notice of that one specific violation under item number
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14 1 for the hearing which occurred on Monday. And so, I think
15 technically he is correct there, however, there was as part
16 of the resolution you had made that there was a finding that
1.7 there was some visibly intoxicated persons who had been
18 served. So that was the distinction that I wanted to make.
19 CHAIRMAN LACY: We have the A through K factors
20 that we are involved in as far as the hearing is concerned,
21 is that correct? As far as stage 2 is concerned?
22 MR. BARKER: That ' s correct.
23 CHAIRMAN LACY: Most of that that you read into
24 the record.
L
25 MR. BARKER: That ' s correct.
gr71J7M
1 CHAIRMAN LACY: If the Board wishes, we will take
2 those as a group and if there is discussion or a motion to
3 take those as a group rather than doing those one by one.
4 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Well, Mr. Chairman, I am not
5 sure I am quite ready to decide on the severity of the
6 penalities. I would just like to make a statement in my
7 opinion and I feel that I will refer to these letters, in the
8 interest of saving time that A, B, C, E, F, G and I are in my
9 opinion again aggravating circumstances. I think probably D,
10 H and K may have some mitigating facts. The others in my
11 opinion again are not relevant.
12 Further statement, I believe previously going back
13 previous to the time that Ernie had this bar, it was not
L J
14 without some problems. There may not have been proven
15 problems, but it was always addressed with some concern. It
16 was at that time reported to be a family restaurant and bar
17 served primarily a neighborhood. We have heard evidence in
18 these hearings that the clientele primarily comes from a good
19 deal further out. And I guess I would just like to stop with
20 that for now as far as stating things that I see and I am not
21 quite ready to make a motion.
22 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON : I have a question with
23 regard to that, Bruce, and I don't know if we need to ask it
24 in executive session or not. It is a legal question.
25 MR. BARKER: It ' s up to you as to the executive
871488
1 session part of that. If you --
J 2 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think I will request a
3 brief executive session on matters relating to the attorney
4 to inquire of our attorney. I would so move.
5 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Second.
6 CHAIRMAN LACY: Motion by Jackie, seconded by Gene
7 that we have a brief executive session. Further discussion?
8 All in favor of the motion say aye.
9 (Ayes voiced. )
10 CHAIRMAN LACY: All opposed, same sign.
11 (Commissioners are in executive session. )
12 CHAIRMAN LACY: We are ready to reconvene. Mr.
13 Barker, if you would inform the people present what we
L i
14 discussed in our executive session, please.
15 MR. BARKER: Specifically, there was a question
16 concerning as more of a procedural question concerning the
17 neighborhood, the idea being that once a liquor license, if
18 it ' s granted initially, one of the consideration you take
19 into consideration is the neighborhood and the desires of the
20 neighborhood. I mentioned that at the renewal stage,
21 basically what we are looking at is ultimately the item
22 number 2 , which deals with what ' s going on outside the bar,
23 possibly with which has been substantially as a result of the
24 operation and licensed premises.
25 So specifically, the question was about the
871.488
1 neighborhood and do you take that into consideration? My
2 answer was you look at it only in the sense of the operation
3 of a licensed premises. Secondly, some of his questions just
4 concerning the procedures with regard to taking into
5 consideration the factors; and then also concerning any sort
6 of a motion how that should be made and that was basically
7 what we talked about in the executive session.
8 CHAIRMAN LACY: We are then ready for a motion
9 from the Board.
10 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Mr . Chairman, I will make
11 the motion. I would like to preface my remarks by saying to
12 both counselor that I appreciate the fairness and the
13 presentation that you made. I think it was an area that has
14 a lot of emotional overtones and I thought the hearing was
15 well conducted and that ' s very helpful to we lay people who
16 aren ' t used to being Your Honors, so thank you for that
17 consideration.
18 I would make a motion that we conditionaly renew
19 the license and I will speak to those conditions in a moment,
20 but I want to state the reasons for my motion. I think there
21 has been evidence that the licensee has -- that we have kind
22 of a mixed bag here. There has been in my view a laxness in
23 terms of enforcing the Code and the requirements of the
24 license and I think the evidence of the minors who have been
L
25 served, technical violations are there, violations, and it
1 seems to me they are serious ones. I think there is at least
2 some question as to the care and attention that is given in
3 terms of serving people who appear to be intoxicated and
4 there appears to me that there needs to be a stiffening up, a
5 more careful observation of those people and more diligent
6 effort to not serve persons where there is some question.
7 On the other hand, I do believe that there is or
8 was some evidence presented that indicated that the licensee
9 has made some efforts to improve the operation, both in terms
10 of not allowing those people who identify as troublemakers to
11 frequent the bar or to patronize the bar and albeit a
12 reasonable effort, but evidently some ongoing effort to
F-7 13 provide some kind of security within the bar, whether that ' s
14 family or hired security.
15 Additionally, I think that the licensee ' s general
16 history would suggest that she has in the past operated
17 without major problems and that was apart of my thinking and
18 decision to conditionally renew. Further consideration, I
19 think was the evidence that was submitted as regards to the
20 nature of the neighborhood itself. The fact that at least to
21 some extent some of the difficulties were not within the
22 control of the licensee but were the result of other persons
23 who lived within the neighborhood and create some conflict
24 and I don't know that a person could ever sort out where the
J
25 fault or if there is some fault there. So for those reasons,
871488
1 I am not making the motion to revoke but rather to renew.
2 However, I would like to suggest that the
3 following conditions be attached to that renewal. First of
4 all, I do believe we need to require paid security at the bar
5 and I guess I would welcome some discussion from the Board as
6 to the hours and the extent of that security. I am concerned --
7 I think I don' t understand exactly which days the bar is
8 operating. Is it Friday, Saturday and Sunday?
9 MR. MCINTYRE : Saturday and Sunday only.
10 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The second requirement that
11 I would condition that I would require in this motion would
12 be that patrons be i.d. 'd at the door and that they not be
13 admitted without identification at the door. And finally, I
L i
14 would like to also move for a suspension of the license for a
15 period of time. For purposes of conversation and discussion
16 with the Board, I am going to move that the license be
17 suspended beginning today and for a period of 30 days after
18 the license has been renewed by the State. So that ' s
19 probably, in essence, about a two month period of time
20 starting today. I am putting that out for discussion, just
21 to see how the Board feels about it.
22 So that motion is for conditional renewal of the
23 license with requirement paid security, identification at the
24 door and a suspension for a period beginning today and for 30
25 days following the renewal of the license.
871488
1 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: I will second the motion. I
2 think that probably time is open for discussion that I might
3 think about would be the severity of the suspension with the
4 unknown factor knowing when they will actually have the
5 renewal . I would assume that they want to at least be able
6 to plan and be ready for them to be able to at least open
7 through the holidays. So I think that --
8 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: As I say, I put that out
9 for discussion.
10 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: I think that ' s an item for
11 discussion. I don't have particularly strong feelings, I
12 would just like to identify them.
13 CHAIRMAN LACY: My thoughts on this and may I ,
L
14 Bruce, I would like to ask you a question. The suspension
15 could be at a time other than at the present? In other
16 words, 30 day suspension could start January 15th to February
17 15th or in that period of time, could it not? It doesn' t
18 necessarily have to, as I understand it, be taken at the
19 present time in that respect.
20 MR. BARKER: I don 't really see anything which
21 would prohibit that. However, I guess the idea is that with
22 a renewal, you wish to have whatever suspension is -- in
23 dealing with the renewal is taken care of to start -- and in
24 other words, the penalities is up front and the penalities is
25 to make a point that it is as what you put on as conditions,
871488
1 has to be taken into consideration and then the renewal or
2 the license is renewed after that time.
3 CHAIRMAN LACY : Okay. Okay, then in regard to
4 that, we had when we first started this process, the license
5 was due October 16th, if I remember correctly?
6 MR. BARKER: That ' s correct .
7 CHAIRMAN LACY: And they have been allowed, the
8 Applicant has been allowed to operate the bar since that
9 period of time until this process took place.
10 MR. BARKER: That ' s correct.
11 CHAIRMAN LACY: Is that correct?
12 MR. BARKER: Pursuant to the stipulation.
r ! 13 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay. Then, I guess they actually
L J
14 have been in any respect had a valid license going through,
15 you know, it ' s not been issued by or signed off by us or by
16 the State. My feeling would be that if we would do a
17 suspension, that we do it as of now for a period of time
18 rather than as Bill was saying and it would be for , you know,
19 for a 30 day period and then by a 30 day period, we are
20 talking about a calendar period, are we not correct? Is that
21 not correct? If we did 30 days of suspension with two days a
22 week, you are talking about 15 weeks that you would not allow
23 them to be in operation, which would --
24 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I was talking calendar
25 days.
871488
1 CHAIRMAN LACY: You are talking calendar days and
2 that ' s what I thought and that would be my thought, but I
3 would be more in favor of doing a 30 day suspension or a
4 suspension as of right now through a period of time and then
5 allow them to reopen.
6 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Let me make a motion to amend
7 the motion that -- excuse us just a moment. Let me move to
8 amend the motion to suspend until a date certain, that being
9 Saturday December 5th.
10 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That ' s an acceptable
11 amendment to me.
12 CHAIRMAN LACY : Second to that?
13 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Beginning today.
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14 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Beginning today.
15 MR. MCINTYRE : They could reopen on the 5th then,
16 is what you are saying?
17 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: That would be a Saturday the
18 5th.
19 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: That is -- November, this
20 is October, in essence.
21 MR. MCINTYRE : Forty-five days.
22 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Forty-five days.
23 MR. MCINTYRE: A little better.
24 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Is there a second to that?
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25 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Since I made the original
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1 motion and that amendment is acceptable to me, I think Bill
2 was the seconder. I don' t think we need to do anything else.
3 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: You can do just by
4 acceptance.
5 CHAIRMAN LACY: Okay, I hear what you are saying.
6 We don't need to have an actual amendment.
7 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Well, now, do you discuss
8 that amendment at all or is that just accepted?
9 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: It could be discussed with a
10 motion.
11 CHAIRMAN LACY: Discussed with the complete
12 motion.
13 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We are not voting yet .
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14 CHAIRMAN LACY: We are in discussion of the
15 motion. There is no amendment. This is just agreeable to
16 Jackie and Bill in the original motion that this date be till
17 suspension --
18 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I am changing my motion.
19 CHAIRMAN LACY : See, so actually no amendment.
20 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: We are getting along today.
21 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: So as long as I know he is
22 going on vacation we can do that. The other question I guess
23 is how specific do we need to be about the requirement for
24 paid security?
25 MR. BARKER: Well , I think it may depend, you
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1 know, part of your decision may depend upon what type of
2 security she has there at present and if you think that that
3 is adequate. So and I am not sure we really got into who the
4 security guards were, what firm they are from, what hours
5 they are there and what, you know, what they do when they are
6 there and I think that may be appropriate to hear from Miss
7 Faudoa at this time concerning that.
8 MS. FAUDOA: Okay, they are there when the dance
9 starts. They are there from 8 o 'clock until 1: 30 when we
10 close. They search everybody that ' s in the bar that ' s there
11 presently and continue on searching on Friday' s --
12 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Searching?
13 MR. MCINTYRE : They physically also search.
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14 MS. FAUDOA: With the women they have a type of
15 machine. You know, I don't know what it ' s called, but a man --
16 MR. MCINTYRE : It detects metal .
17 MS. FAUDOA: Yes, and with a man it ' s physical.
18 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: What are you paying those
19 people?
20 MS. FAUDOA: Eight dollars an hour .
21 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are they with a
22 professional firm?
23 MS. FAUDOA: It ' s Lincho Pena. Pena Security
24 Guard Service.
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25 MR. MCINTYRE : He has been around, I think quite
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1 awhile.
2 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Is it proper for me to
3 question her on the type of security and the amount and that
4 sort of thing?
5 MR. BARKER: I don't see why not. I think that ' s
6 a question that ' s come up as to what type of security is
7 available and what she is using right now and if that ' s
8 adequate in your mind.
9 MS. FAUDOA: Saturdays are our busier nights, so
10 our security guards are there but on Sundays they are not
11 because there is only like about six couples that that go in
12 the bar now.
7-1 13 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: So you are talking about
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14 two security guards from what time again?
15 MS. FAUDOA: Eight through 1: 30 .
16 COMMISSIONER BRANTER: And that is two security
17 guards? You said guards, I am just assuming -- how many
18 security guards are there?
19 MS. FAUDOA : There is one security guard.
20 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: One security guard?
21 MS. FAUDOA: Uh-huh.
22 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: That would be five
23 and-a-half hours and that ' s only on Saturday?
24 MS. FAUDODA: Yes.
25 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Are you thinking about
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1 opening other nights and expanding your hours within the next
2 year?
3 MS. FAUDOA : If it is possible. Probably just be
4 on the weekends, because I never open during the weekdays.
5 MR. MCINTYRE : So if we went Friday night with a
6 dance band and crowd, you would have security that night too?
7 I assume that is what you are saying, you understand that?
8 MS. FAUDOA: Yes.
9 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Well , I guess my point is
10 that she had testified she couldn't afford the security, but
11 now she can because she has this 300 dollars that the payment
12 she had could go to security. Well, 300 dollars is not going
13 to cover that type of security if she expands at all .
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14 MR. MCINTYRE : No, but hopefully she will make
15 profit on the night she expands where she can. It will cover
16 the nights she is doing right now. If you want them, she
17 will go to have them there. She would only open if the
18 business were justified and if it justifies it, it will
19 justify having the security guard there. Either that or she
20 doesn 't open.
21 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: I think that ' s an important
22 thing to talk to for people there if it is needed to make
23 sure that it is available.
24 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: How do you determine if
25 needed.
P,1 .r15;4,4
1 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Well, that ' s --
2 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: One of the things that
3 Keith suggested was that if there were a dance, you know,
4 dance band, which is what brings the crowd on Saturday.
5 MR. MCINTYRE : If we open Friday, we will go to
6 security guards .
7 MS. FAUDOA: Yes.
8 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON : That makes it easy.
9 MR. MCINTYRE : Let ' s just do it that way.
10 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: So I guess for purposes of
11 the motion, we will be identifying security at the level she
12 has now on Saturday and on Friday she will open the same
I 13 level.
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14 MR. MCINTYRE : We are also agreeable with stating
15 that we will not open any other night, with possible
16 exception of a Holiday, you know, Christmas type thing. We
17 will not open any other night during the week without coming
18 to the Board and informing them that we will open or
19 requesting if you prefer and working out an arrangement on
20 security guards.
21 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: That ' s good.
22 MR. MCINTYRE : Other than the possible reopening
23 of Friday when we would impose security guards.
24 CHAIRMAN LACY: Further discussion by the Board?
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25 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON : I will just put that down,
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1 possible exception of Holidays. Do we want to maybe --
2 MR. MCINTYRE : Do you have like a special party
3 that goes on?
4 MS. FAUDOA: No. If it does, it comes on weekend.
5 MR. MCINTYRE : Forget the holidays.
6 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay.
7 MR. MCINTYRE : Friday, Saturday or Sunday.
8 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Open for discussion?
9 CHAIRMAN LACY: Yes, we are.
10 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: I am going to vote against
11 the motion for two reasons; one is that I don't think that
12 the penalty of 45 or approximately 45 days is enough.
13 Second, I think the license should not be renewed. I think
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14 that it ' s been shown without any doubt that there have been
15 very serious violations of most if not all of the liquor
16 license rules and regulations. I think it ' s been shown that
17 since she has taken over, not that there has not been a
18 decline in the offenses or calls to the Sheriff ' s Office,
19 that things have not gotten better.
20 when you have twelve reports, plus other Sheriff
21 Office calls, a homicide, I think this is serious and I think
22 that it shows that they are not enforcing the laws and rules
23 and regulations. The only corrective actions taken by the
24 license holder that appear to maybe correct the situation is
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25 the hired security for the last two weeks. It ' s hard for me
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1 to imagine the Applicant running a bar for seven years and
2 then another two years not aware of the rules and
3 regulations, the laws and how to enforce those and then when
4 we have serious, very serious violations, saying well , okay,
5 now I am going to start taking care of these and I really
6 have a problem with that. I have a problem with not being
7 aware of the problems that the previous lessee or potential
8 owner had. I think that she was leasing to him and I think
9 when she took over, she knew that there were potential
10 problems and I am not real sure that there were actions taken
11 to correct those.
12 The last year, there were three incidents of
13 selling to minors. Selling to minors once is enough for, I
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14 think, either revocation or nonrenewal. The likelihood of
15 reoccurence I think is real good that they could recur.
16 Because I am not sure -- I am still not convinced that the
17 Applicant is familiar with the liquor laws and I am not sure
18 that she or her people that she employs have the ability to
19 determine the levels of intoxication or really what rules
20 and regulations there are. We had testimony that they were
21 serving -- one waitress might be serving a person, if she
22 wasn 't aware that they were even being served. I think
23 that ' s the owner ' s or licensee ' s responsibility to monitor
24 their help. So I am going to vote against the motion and I
25 think it should not be renewed.
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1 CHAIRMAN LACY: Further discussion?
2 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Well, I would just state that
3 I have an awful lot of Gene ' s same concerns, but I feel like
4 there is enough attempt being made to rectify the situation
5 to give them one more chance to change, if you will, and I
6 think it should be substantially better at the time of
7 another renewal or revocation would have to be the end. It ' s
8 a very difficult hearing. I am torn between those two
9 answers, but I will honor the motion or Gene ' s comments.
10 CHAIRMAN LACY: Further discussion?
11 MR. BARKER: Mr. Chairman, maybe I am just not
12 clear here concerning the being open on Friday, Saturday and
1 13 Sunday, is that part of the motion, that being only open
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14 during those days? I believe that the Applicant is willing
15 to stipulate to that and they are agreeing that they would
16 only be open for those days, so that could probably be part
17 of the motion.
18 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Is that even legal?
19 MR. BARKER: I guess then the thing is that the
20 Board can, if the Applicant says they are willing to open
21 during those days, a tavern license can be given for that
22 purpose. Being open during that time, continuous. In other
23 words, continuous doesn' t make any difference that the bar
24 will not be open continuously during the week, everyday of
25 the week. If it ' s closed for a few days of the week, the
8 X1488
1 tavern license can still be issued to that individual.
2 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: But I am not sure we can
3 legally impose those sanctions.
4 MR. BARKER: Well , I guess what I am saying is
5 they are willing to stipulate to that. So if they are saying
6 that that ' s what they are planning on doing anyway, and Keith
7 has said that if they do plan on opening on, let ' s say,
8 Monday through Thursday, that they would come back and ask
9 for the Board' s permission. I don't see any problem with
10 that.
11 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I would intend to have that
12 as apart of the motion. Further that either Friday or
13 Saturday nights, that the security be imposed.
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14 MR. MCINTYRE : June, is that correct?
15 MS. FAUDOA: Yes.
16 MR. MCINTYRE : You are willing to be open at the
17 most three nights and if you desire any more, you are willing
18 to come back to the Board and request permission to expand
19 those nights?
20 MS. FAUDOA: Yes.
21 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: If she is open on Friday or
22 Saturday nights, there will be --
23 MR. MCINTYRE : Security guards.
24 MS. FAUDOA: Yes.
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25 CHAIRMAN LACY: Further discussion on the motion?
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1 Ready for roll call. We will have the roll call, please.
2 CLERK : Gene Brantner.
3 COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: No.
4 CLERK: Jackie Johnson.
5 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes.
6 CLERK: Bill Kirby.
7 COMMISSIONER KIRBY: Yes.
8 CLERK : Frank Yamaguchi.
9 COMMISSIONER YAMAGUCHI : No.
10 CLERK : Gordon Lacy.
11 CHAIRMAN LACY: Board votes aye.
12 The motion is to renew the license with
13 restrictions and with the suspension. Being no further
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14 business before the Board, the meeting is adjourned.
15 MR. MCINTYRE : Thank you.
16 MS. FAUDOA: Thank you.
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1
2 CERTIFICATE
3
4 I, MABEL BROYLES, Certified Shorthand Reporter
5 within an for the State of Colorado, do hereby certify
6 that I was present and reported in Stenotypy the forgoing
7 proceedings before the Weld County Commissioners.
8 I further certify that the above and foregoing 106
9 pages contain a transcript of said proceedings and that the
10 same is true and correct.
11
DATED this i -- day of 1987.
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16 Ma B yles /
16 Certified Shorthand Reporter
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