HomeMy WebLinkAbout891431.tiff BEFORE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY, COLORADO
EXCERPT OF MEETING CONDUCTED FEBRUARY 15 , 1989
RE: ZONING PERMIT MOBILE HOME #1391 - KIMMEL STOCK HORSES, INC.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
JACQUELINE JOHNSON, PRO-TEM
GENE R. BRANTNER
GEORGE KENNEDY
GORDON E . LACY
COMMISSIONERS EXCUSED:
C.W. KIRBY, CHAIRMAN
ALSO PRESENT:
BRUCE T. BARKER, ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY
LEE D. MORRISON, ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY
BRIAN SINGLE , DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING SERVICES
TOMMIE ANTUNA, ACTING CLERK TO THE BOARD
JAMES KIMMEL, APPLICANT
PL0461
8914:31
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Item number 3 under Planning is a Zoning
Permit for Mobile Home #1391 for Kimmel Stock Horses ,
Incorporated .
MR. BINGLE: Madam Chairman , this is ZPMH 1391 , the applicant is
Kimmel Stock Horses , Incorporated, c/o James and Donna Kimmel.
This request is for one mobile home to be used as a principal
dwelling. Legal description of the parcel is located on Lot A of
Recorded Exemption 518 , part of the Southeast Quarter of Section
8 , Township 1 North, Range 66 West of the 6th Principal Meridian ,
Weld County, Colorado. The Department of Planning Services staff
recommends that this request be approved .
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are there questions for Brian?
COMMISSIONER LACY: Okay, Brian, I guess to clear the air on this,
the request here is for a , request for a principal dwelling. . .
MR. BINGLE : That is correct.
COMMISSIONER LACY: This is not for a temporary dwelling while a
home is being built, or anything of that type , this is for a
principal dwelling?
MR. SINGLE : That is correct , sir.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON : Are there other questions?
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: You did issue the permit?
MR. BINGLE: Yes , sir, we did .
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Do you want to explain, for the record,
Brian.
MR. SINGLE : If I could , yes . In 1988 , February of 1988 , the
applicant did submit an application fcr a principal dwelling which
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was reviewed by the Department of Planning Services , in line with
the Weld County Subdivision, excuse me, Zoning Regulations , as
well as the application material that was submitted . At that
time , staff reviewed it, had the ability to approve it , in line
with the application material and the Weld County Zoning
Ordinance, and did so. In February of this past year, the
Department of Planning Services received concerns from surrounding
property owners in regards to the processing of the petition that
was used in the principal dwelling application. Upon further
review by the Department of Planning Services, it was determined
that the applicant did indeed submit an insufficient number of
surrounding property owners identifying them. Whereby, if the
petition was used, it lowered the percentage to 46 instead of the
required 70% needed. So, at that time, the staff invalidated the
permit and proceeded with it at a hearing before the County
Commissioners in regard to the application material .
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Question of legal staff. Is it your
opinion that we ' re acting in accordance with the legal
ramifications of that?
MR. BARKER: I think that ' s correct. I haven' t taken a look at
this before , but it was my understanding that Mr. Morrison had
approved this , from our office , had approved the procedure , and
had found that it complied with the Zoning Ordinance and all of
the required statutes that we abide by.
MR. BINGLE : That is correct. Mr. Lee Morrison , Assistant County
Attorney, was used in the review process of staff ' s pursuit in
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regards to this matter, and it was concurred that this was the
proper process , to review the application material once again.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay . So, just in summary, we had an
insufficient petition , it didn ' t represent all of the property
owners . And we require 70% of all of the surrounding property
owners to sign a petition in order to go through the
administrative review process?
MR. BINGLE: Yes , ma ' am, that is correct.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: And , consequently we are here because the
actual number was less than 50% of the -
MR. BINGLE : Less than 70% . Forty-six percent was found to be, if
the petition was used in regards to the surrounding property
owners determined by staff .
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We are now reviewing then , a Zoning Permit
for a Mobile Home as a principal dwelling on this property , and
are going through a public hearing process to make that
determination?
MR. BINGLE: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: There was , in the materials , some
information about a second mobile home . Can you give us the
status of that?
MR. BINGLE : The status on the second mobile home was that staff,
once again, reviewed an application that was submitted by Mr.
Kimmel for an accessory to the farm, representing himself as
Kimmel Horse Ranch , Incorporated, indicating the need for a hired
hand for the purposes of a horse facility, as well as the
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caretaking of the property. Staff reviewed the application and
approved it. Upon further investigation of the property, it was
determined that the accessory to the farm was on the property in
violation of the Certificate of Compliance which was signed by the
applicant. Since that time , staff has reviewed the property and
it has been determined that the property is once again in
compliance with that Certificate of Compliance, and the mobile
home is being used as an accessory to the farm.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Other questions concerning that? Is that
not before us then, that ' s beyond our -
MR. BINGLE: That is not before us at this time .
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Mr. Kimmel , is that correct? Would you
give us your full name, please .
MR. KIMMEL: James S . Kimmel.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: And would you like to make some comments to
the Board?
MR. KIMMEL: Well, at the time that we took out, got the
signatures of the property surrounding area, we went to the
Recording Office and got a list, which we thought was the right
amount of people. This lady down there at the Recorder ' s Office
helped us get a list of the people. And them' s the ones we went
around and got a signature of. And as far as , there ' s been some
misunderstanding that we are not planning on building a home , but
we are planning on building a home as soon as we sell the property
we have in town. But, before you can even get a loan , or anything
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on the property, you got to have a permanent dwelling. No bank
will loan money on vacant land.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay. We ' re having a little problem
hearing you, if you could speak up just a little bit, please.
MR. KIMMEL : So, any vacant land you got to have a permanent
dwelling before the bank will loan money on it. So at this time,
we gotta have a permanent dwelling, and gotta have a place to live
until we do get our place sold in town. And the way the housing
market is today, we don ' t know when you can sell it. And first we
had to put a well on the place, it was vacant, had to bring in
gas , had to bring in electric , and there ' s right at 20 thousand
dollars worth of underground utilities and stuff there now, and
the well that had to be paid . And all of this had to be done
before you can go any further. So, all of this stuff takes time
and money. And that' s the reason we ' re trying to go as fast as we
can. We can only go as fast as the money is allowed to go.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY : Is your house you' re trying to sell rented
to someone else?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes it is .
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: And when you sell that house your
intentions are to build a permanent dwelling?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes .
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: So you ' re asking actually then, to use
your mobile home until that occurs?
MR. KIMMEL: Well , see first you gotta get a permanent dwelling
permit . See , we ' re gonna have to take out a loan to build a
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house . There ' s no bank will loan money without some sort of
permanent dwelling on the land , that I know of.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are there other questions for Mr. Kimmel?
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I guess as a builder, I can ' t understand
that last statement, that you can' t get a loan to build a
permanent dwelling on a piece of vacant land. I mean that ' s - I
do that all the time . I 'm lost with that explanation. I mean I
can ' t start to build a house without going out and getting a loan,
and you' re saying that you can ' t get a loan on a vacant piece of
ground to build a dwelling. Now, I 'm saying, that if that ' s your
own circumstance , I ' ll agree to that, but if you ' re saying that ' s
a general practice , that ' s not, that ' s not even , you know -
MR. KIMMEL: Well, the banks I 've went to, they won ' t loan money
on vacant land. Do you know of a bank that will?
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: No, I 'm saying, I 'm building one right now,
where both the money is borrowed for the land and the house. So,
and you' re saying that' s not a possibility. I 'm not challenging
your specific circumstance might not allow that, but as a general
practice there wouldn ' t be any houses built.
MR. KIMMEL: Well , a permanent loan, what I 'm trying to say.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: No, you get a construction loan to build
the building and then you get the permanent financing.
MR. KIMMEL: Yes , but right now there ' s no way that we could build
a house if we don ' t have the money.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY : I agree your individual circumstances , but
it ' s a very general thing to go out and get a loan on, to buy
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vacant land and a house at the same time . But , I understand
specific circumstances are different.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are there other questions for Mr. Kimmel?
COMMISSIONER LACY : Are you living in the dwelling at the present
time?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes .
COMMISSIONER LACY : Okay. And you have a hired hand that lives in
the other dwelling, is that correct?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes , sir.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Is it a hired hand specifically, or is it
someone else?
MR. KIMMEL: No, it ' s a hired hand.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are you farming the property?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Any other questions?
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: You wouldn ' t by chance have pictures of
your place, would you?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes we do.
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: They' re in here?
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We are passing a pamphlet that was
submitted as evidence to the Clerk to the Board , and Lee I
believe , or Bruce , marked it as evidence .
MR. MORRISON: I 'm not sure they' re marked.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON : I don ' t think these are Mr. Kimmel ' s
pictures , I think they are from the opponents .
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MR. BINGLE: Staff, at this time , would present another additional
picture that was in taken in a separate case.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: If you will give it to Lee first, please.
(Picture was marked as exhibit by Mr. Morrison. ) Any further
questions? Okay, then, we will open this hearing for public
testimony. I notice there are a number of people in the audience.
I would ask you as you make your testimony to try not to unduly
repeat one another, but simply, if someone has said what you want
to say, just indicate to us that you agree with them. We ask that
you come to this microphone , give us your name and address , and
then your statements. And, please begin by telling us whether you
favor or oppose the permit.
MR. MACE : My name is Roger Mace. I 'm here to oppose this issue.
My property borders Mr. Kimmel ' s property to the north.
Incidentally, at this time I ' d like to submit this petition with
signatures of individuals (inaudible) asked me to represent them.
In rebuttal to Mr. Kimmel ' s statement here , as to where he lives ,
four days ago I checked with the Brighton Post Office, (inaudible)
- his mail is delivered. . .
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We need, excuse me -
COMMISSIONER LACY : Stay at the microphone .
MR. MACE: his mail is delivered at 13150 East 148th Avenue,
Brighton, Colorado, as of four days ago. I 'm not only speaking
here for myself, but for the individuals on the petition and for
other individuals who are here today. Would those individuals
please stand? (Several .people in the audience stood . ) The
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documentation pertaining to this hearing has all been submitted
for the Commissioners ' review. A petition with 29 signatures of
surrounding property owners has been submitted protesting this
issue, all of whom live on Roads 10 and 29 , near the Kimmel
property. There ' s been a total of 17 letters submitted to Weld
County in protest of this issue. Numerous phone calls have been
made to Planning and Zoning in protest of this issue. Surrounding
property owners do not want permanent mobile home dwellings near
their properties , nor do we want our properties depreciated by
this type of housing. Thank you, and at this time I ' d like to
introduce Larry and Toni Thieman .
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are there any questions for Mr. Mace.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY : Are all the petitioners within the
500-foot?
MR. MACE: Nine of the individuals are sir, including myself.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Any other questions? All right.
MR. THIEMAN: My name is Larry Thieman. I live at 4362 Weld
County Road 27 , about a mile away. I 've been a realtor for over
13 years , and it' s been my experience that any time that you
introduce mobile homes into an area, you have an adverse effect on
the property values in that area. I 'm convinced that a permanent
mobile home dwelling at this location will have a negative effect
on the integrity and the reputation of this area , of which I 'm a
part of. And , I ' d like to submit a letter stating briefly that.
(Letter was marked as Exhibit by Mr . Morrison. )
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COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are there questions for Mr. Thieman? Are
there other persons present who wish to address the Board?
MRS . THIEMAN: Good morning. I 'm Toni Thieman, I 'm Larry' s wife .
As he said , we live in the area. I have a letter of my own , I am
a Colorado real estate broker, and have been for eight years with
ReMax, and I would like to submit my letter also to the
Commissioners regarding my opinion of this issue, which is simply
the devaluation , or potential difficulty in resale of other
residences surrounding this property due to the effect and impact
it may have . (Letter was marked as Exhibit by Mr. Morrison. )
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are there questions for Mrs . Thieman?
Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to address the Board?
Mr. Kimmel , we ' ll give you a chance to make any closing remarks
you ' d like.
MR. KIMMEL: Well, the address there , we do have an office in
Brighton yet , at the 13150 East 148th Avenue. And we do get our
mail there also, and Kimmel Stock Horses gets their mail out at
the road 10 and 29 .
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Any other comments?
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: How many acres do you have? I 'm sure it' s
before us , but - How large is your place in acreage?
MR. KIMMEL: Twenty-six, point some acres .
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: And , you have, was it Kimmel ' s Horse, or
Stock Horses , how many horses do you have there now?
MR. KIMMEL: Five or six.
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COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: And, do you train, or deal in horses , or -
MR. KIMMEL: My wife , she trains and, the trainer, he trains too.
And, it' s, right now, a better business to be in on a small place.
And then we raise hay too. But, there ' s horses coming and going
all the time. After they get them trained, my wife , she trains
them for people , and then she also trains small children to ride
horses, and some grownups . And, then we also exercise horses on
the track so, right now we have some race horses there for Joe
Carmichael , and he ' s in the race horse business. And we are
training them, and a trainer is taking them to the track just
about every day now.
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Do you do any of the training or farming
yourself?
MR. KIMMEL: No. I don' t, not myself.
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: You have other employment then?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are there other questions?
COMMISSIONER LACY: Your plans are , and I guess I 'm understanding
what you' re saying in respect, your plans are to, you have a home
in, where?
MR. KIMMEL: Brighton.
COMMISSIONER LACY: You have a home in Brighton, in the city
limits , you ' re trying to sell?
MR. KIMMEL: No, no. It ' s just outside the city limits , two
acres .
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COMMISSIONER LACY : Okay. And , you ' re trying to sell that
property?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes .
COMMISSIONER LACY: And at the time you sell that property, you
then will build what we would call a stick house on this property.
That ' s what your plans are, is to do this?
MR. KIMMEL : Yes .
COMMISSIONER LACY : You' re calling this a permanent dwelling when
you applied for this , was for what you felt were purposes for a
loan, and for that respect, and so on?
MR. KIMMEL: Yes .
COMMISSIONER LACY : Okay.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Other questions for Mr. Kimmel? Mr. Mace,
we are pretty much finished , do you have additional information ,
or -
MR. MACE: Yes , ma ' am.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The problem I have is we can ' t keep
debating all day. And, we have to give Mr. Kimmel the last
remark. If it' s pertinent , I ' ll hear it , but I ' d like you to keep
it short.
MR. MACE: In response to Mr. Kimmel ' s horse training operation
out there, my property borders his northern boundary. I look out
my window, I see his property constantly. I 'm home 21 days a
month . I 've seen no horse training. I 've seen horse feeding,
very little activity whatsoever. I ' d just like to state that for
the record .
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COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Mr. Kimmel , one last comment, if you will
please.
MR. KIMMEL: Okay. Right now, we have just got the horses out
there within the last month. We have horses at the other place
too, in Brighton. The weather has been so bad , and the ground so
slick right now, you cannot do no training right there on the
place. But, quick as the weather starts warming up, we have 40
more panels we ' re putting up for a round pen and all this other
operation. It' s gotta be set up yet.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Questions? Gene.
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Yes , I have a question for staff. This
evidently, from what I 've heard, is a commercial operation, is
that use proper in this neighborhood?
MR. BINGLE: The application does indeed, or the applicant is
referring as a commercial operation . Staff has yet to determine
that commercial use. Because of the fact that the property is
being used by his horses at this time, or utilized by his horses,
then a commercial endeavor has not taken place. Now when the
applicant does indeed, or the property owner, does indeed start
with a training facility for the commercial purposes of business ,
then at that time , a Use by Special Review will be necessary.
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER : One other question . If a stick built
house, if it were built there , then the accessory, which we 've
already said, it ' s legal -evidently. So, if there was a stick
built house , then the mobile home , they could still have a mobile
home there for accessory use?
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MR. BINGLE : Yes , sir. If the stick built house takes the place
of the principal dwelling, then the principal dwelling must be
either reclassified or removed from the property. As it stands
now with the accessory dwelling, yes it will be allowed to remain
as long as it can be shown that it is accessory to the farm.
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: So, there ' s another issue that could
arise, but we heard testimony this morning that the man is
training for other people , in a commercial endeavor.
MR. BINGLE : Yes , sir , we have this morning, we have heard that.
MR. KIMMEL: Could I clarify that? That ' s the reason my wife is
on the road. The commercial training is not there . But , she is
training her own horses there.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Other questions? If there are no further
questions , we will close the testimony and the Chair will
entertain a motion. I should also indicate to you , Mr. Kimmel,
that there are only four Commissioners of five, present. Should
the vote be a tie, the absent Commissioner will listen to the
tapes of this proceeding and will cast the deciding vote.
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Mr. Morrison, if we , if the vote is
against the zoning for a mobile home , can we allow a period for
the removal of that? How do we handle that, if it' s declared in
violation? The man ' s living there , it' s set up - I think we have
to be somewhat reasonable in that , if that does occur. How do we
handle that?
MR. MORRISON: If the permit's denied , then it goes into the
violation process . The normal process would be 30 days with the
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Planning Department, then additional time in my office before we
proceeded. The Board certainly could give direction to the
departments not to, as to how, what time frame in which to proceed
with the violation action if that were necessary. But, if you
deny the permit today, it would technically be in violation . And
then the time frame would be either 60 to 90 days to get filed in
court, or more if the Board so directs .
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: But, what about a conditional approval?
MR. MORRISON: What kind of condition?
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Approval with limitations.
MR. MORRISON: Generally the, I 'm not sure what you ' re looking at,
generally the kinds of conditions that are provided in an approval
have to do with hooking up, or obtaining a well permit, or water,
things like that. Part of the problem, although there ' s
discussion that this is not a permanent residence , the problem is
the permit being requested has to be a permanent residence,
because he doesn ' t have the stick built under construction . So, I
don' t think you can condition the approval for this mobile home
for a principal dwelling on it not staying too long, cause that,
we don' t have that kind of animal . If it' s just there
temporarily, it has to be part of the process in application for a
stick built type dwelling. Do you agree with that, Mr. Bingle?
MR. BINGLE: Well , yes . The temporary use during construction of
a home , a building permit must be requested and diligently
pursued . So that is why we don ' t have , as Mr. Morrison said , such
an animal.
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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: However, a building permit becomes , if
there isn ' t something done, in what period of time that it ' s
revoked , and the new one has to be -
MR. BINGLE : Well , there ' s a period of time that is a review. A
temporary use during construction of the home is a temporary use
for six-month periods, which can be renewed as long as , again, the
diligent effort is being made by the property owner to complete
the construction of the home. For instance, barring any
unforeseen weather, such as we are having, which would delay the
construction occurring, then staff would review the application
upon those merits , and grant approval once again for its use.
Once the completion occurs , the C .O. is granted , then there is a
period of 60 days for the removal of the mobile home from the
property.
MR. MORRISON: And as well , the building permit becomes invalid if
it is not operated on within the six month period.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Right.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: And this mobile home has been on the
property now for a year?
MR. BINGLE: Approximately, yes ma ' am.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Any other questions?
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Based upon the recommendations of the
information we 've received , I move that the permit be denied
inasmuch as Mr. Kimmel does have other avenues to pursue his
stated prime objective of building a house.
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COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Second.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It' s been moved by George, and seconded by
Gene , to deny the mobile home permit. Is there discussion by the
Board?
COMMISSIONER LACY: I 'm having a real problem either way with
this. I 'm not sure how to go about the process , and I guess maybe
this is the process to get it cleared up. I 'm going to vote for
the motion. I don ' t think it' s the intent of the applicant to
leave that there permanently, but I don' t know any other way to
get it moved off in time , and I guess that' s what we ' re looking at
as far as the situation is concerned.
COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Well , Gordon, I feel the same way. I
think it' s a very difficult situation. The man is living there,
the application was approved, I think, erroneously. That' s been
proven. I would hope then that our attorneys would be somewhat
flexible, but I think that we need to be pursuing it as diligently
as we can, but still be flexible enough where that we can work
with the gentleman to correct the violation.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: And I think we have also indicated, Mr.
Kimmel , that when you are really ready to build and have sold your
other property, that there is an avenue for you then to have a
residence while you ' re building, but until that time with the
years having passed, I would concur with my fellow commissioners
on this motion .
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MR. BINGLE: Madam Chairman, if I could also add, the Department
of Planning Services does have an application available which is
referred to as a Subdivision Exemption for the use of financial
aid through a bank. If that adds any, Mr. Kimmel is more than
welcome to visit with staff in regards to that application.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay, the motion before us is to deny the
Zoning Permit for Mobile Home #1391 . All those in favor of this
motion to deny signify by saying aye .
Whereupon all four Commissioners voted aye.
COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Opposed? The motion is carried and the
permit is denied.
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