HomeMy WebLinkAbout20003286.tiff WELD COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF WELD, STATE OF COLORADO
TRANSCRIPT OF PUBLIC HEARING
IN RE : PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT FINAL PLAN, S #525 , FOR 536
LOTS -- BEEBE DRAW FARMS, SECOND FILING
PURSUANT TO NOTICE to all parties in interest, the
above-entitled matter came for public hearing before the Weld
County Planning Commission on September 5, 2000 , in the Weld
County Public Health/Planning Building, Room 210 , at 1555 N.
17th Avenue, Greeley, Colorado, and TRANSCRIBED by Loma J. Huh.
I HEREBY CERTIFY that the attached transcript is a
complete and accurate account of the above-mentioned public
hearing.
WELD COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
WELD COUNTY, COLORADO
Trisha
Swanson
Secretary to the Planning
Commission
2000-3286
APPEARANCES :
WELD COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Cristie Nicklas, Chairman
Commissioner John Folsom
Commissioner Jack Epple
Commissioner Michael Miller
Commissioner Stephen Mokray
Commissioner Bryant Gimlin
Commissioner Cathy Clamp
APPLICANT:
Jim Fell, REI , LLC
ALSO PRESENT:
Kim Ogle, Department of Planning Services
Julie Chester, Department of Planning Services
Sheri Lockman, Department of Planning Services
Chris Gathman, Department of Planning Services
Monica Daniels-Mika, Department of Planning Services
Don Carroll , Public Works
Diane Houghtaling, Public Works
Trevor Jiricek, Department of Public Health and Environment
Pam Smith, Department of Public Health and Environment
Lee Morrison, Weld County Assistant Attorney
Trisha Swanson, Secretary
Page 2
PROCEEDINGS
1 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay, the next case that we have is
2 Case #S-525, Beebe Draw Farms, Jim Fell . The legal description
3 is sections 3 , 4 , 5, 8 , 9, 10, 15 , 16, and 17, Township 3 North,
4 Range 65 West of the 6th PM, Weld County, Colorado. The request
5 is for a PUD Final Plat for the Beebe Draw Second Filing, for
6 536 lots . The location is approximately 6 miles east of the Town
7 of Platteville, east of Weld County Road 39 and south of Weld
8 County Road 38 . Monica.
9 MONICA MIKA: Good afternoon. Monica Mika of the
10 Department of Planning Services . The property under
11 consideration today is located east of and adjacent to Weld
12 County Road 39, between Weld County Road 38 and Weld County Road
13 32 . The site is comprised of 2 , 317 acres and received its Change
14 of Zone being Z-412 on December 23 , 1983 , and later amended on
15 May 24 , 1989 . Following the zoning approval, in 1985 the First
16 Filing of Beebe Draw was recorded for the creation of 188 lots .
17 Thereafter several additional replats, an amended filing and
18 corrected filings were also recorded with the Weld County Clerk
19 and Recorder' s Office .
20 The case before you today is the Final and Second
21 Filing of Beebe Draw. Approval of this case will result in the
22 creation of 536 residential lots and site amenities, for a total
23 buildout of 724 residential units in the Beebe Draw Farms PUD.
24 The average lot size for this filing is 1 . 9 acres, served by
Page 3
1 Central Weld Water District and individual septic systems . Also
2 included in this application is the recognition of the overall
3 Site Amenities Plan, comprised of a clubhouse with swimming
4 pool, tennis courts, 19 miles of equestrian riding trails, 8
5 acres of RV and trailer storage, an outdoor training and
6 equestrian center with stables, a marina and dock master house .
7 The Beebe Draw Metropolitan District has been developed and
8 designed to maintain and provide site amenities .
9 Twenty-one percent of the proposed lots have been
10 specifically designed to house the horses and horse-type
11 activities . The total buildout plan is designed to occur between
12 2002 and 2007 .
13 This is a little bit difficult to read, but if you
14 look at your packet you should have a copy of a similar map, and
15 the areas in the middle of the map that don' t have [inaudible] ,
16 those are the First Filing. The sign posting for today' s hearing
17 occurred on 8/25/2000 .
18 The Department of Planning Services' recommendation of
19 approval of S-525 is based on compliance with the PUD Final Plat
20 Requirements, found in Section 29 . 8 of the Weld County Zoning
21 Ordinance . And I just need to enter into the record that that' s
22 a little bit different than the [inaudible] that you' re
23 accustomed to looking at . Generally the new PUD that you look
24 at, the rules and regulations come from the PUD Ordinance .
25 Because of the timing, if you -- this does fall under the old
Page 4
1 planners associated with the PUD, and that' s right in Section
2 28 .
3 Thirteen referral agencies reviewed this case and
4 commented; Oil and Gas Commission, the Town of LaSalle, and
5 Platte Valley Soil Conservation District did not return comments
6 on this particular case . However, comments from these agencies
7 have been received throughout since 1983 .
8 I met on Friday, 8/1/2000 , with two concerned citizens
9 in opposition with this request, and did receive a letter today,
10 9/5/2000 from Jane Evans Cornelius, who is also in opposition to
11 this request , and all three of those applicants are present
12 today -- all three of those citizens are present today to
13 discuss their opposition.
14 After taking their concerns into consideration, with
15 the formulation of the department standards the Department of
16 Planning Services still finds that this request is in compliance
17 with all five standards found in Section 28 . 13 of the Weld
18 County Zoning Ordinance as follows : Number 1, this request is in
19 conformance with Section 28 . 13 of the Weld County Zoning
20 Ordinance, because the proposed PUD Final Plan is consistent
21 with the Weld County Comprehensive Plan and is compatible with
22 future development as permitted on acreage in the PUD district
23 and plans of affected communities . Additionally, the property
24 under consideration did receive two previous Change of Zones .
25 These change of zone applications were for PUD residential
Page 5
1 [inaudible] and equestrian recreational activity. More
2 specifically, as defined in Exhibits 5 and 17 in the Change of
3 Zone application Z-412 , an equestrian center with indoor riding
4 arenas, office and equestrian club building, building outdoor
5 arenas, stables, outside paddocks, as well as stadium, jumping
6 arenas, camping quarters, specially training animals, and
7 hanging equipment storage . And then the aquatic-related
8 activities of water and other recreation facilities, floating
9 docks for small boats, boat-launching ramps, property owner
10 clubhouse, [inaudible] .
11 The planning of development also conforms with PUD
12 Zone District . The PUD Zone District did call for recreational
13 and residential activities to be located on this site . The uses,
14 buildings and structures are also compatible with the existing
15 development of surrounding areas permitted by the existing
16 zoning and future development projected by the Department of
17 Planning. The property is not located within a municipality' s
18 urban growth boundary, nor is it affected by a municipality' s
19 Comprehensive Plan.
20 The Weld County Zoning Ordinance recommends the right
21 to proceed with the Final Plat, as long as the plat has been
22 diligently pursued from the date of original zoning. As such,
23 the applicant has shown diligence in pursuit of this Final Plat .
24 This information is found in the supplemental requirement, in
25 talking about time parameters between a Change of Zone and
Page 6
1 Final, and that does conform to the development standards .
2 This proposed PUD Final Plat conforms with the public
3 standards in Section 35 . 3 of the Weld County Zoning Ordinance .
4 The amenities on this site will be provided dependant on the
5 Beebe Draw Metropolitan District . A service plan has been
6 reviewed by Weld County and has been filed with the Weld County
7 District Court .
8 And finally, the proposed PUD Final Plat will be
9 compatible with the Weld County comprehensive -- the Weld County
10 Zoning Ordinance, Section 50 pertaining to the [inaudible]
11 zoning district as in fact is not influenced by any overlay
12 district and does not lie within an Urban Growth Boundary area .
13 The Department of Planning Services' recommendation
14 for approval today is contingent upon acceptance of the issues
15 prior to recording the Plat as well as the attached Development
16 Standards . The applicant is here to answer any questions that
17 you have, as well as staff .
18 CHAIR NICKLAS : Thank you, Monica. Are there any
19 questions from the Planning Commission for Monica?
20 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Yes .
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : Michael?
22 COMMISSIONER MILLER: How many lots were in the
23 original filing, Monica?
24 MONICA MIKA: The original filing had 188 lots .
25 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Thank you.
Page 7
1 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : Are they actually built out? Is
2 anything constructed out there at this point?
3 MONICA MIKA: At this point -- well, when the field
4 check was done in April, I haven' t been out -- I haven' t
5 personally been back out -- at that time there were 12 lots
6 being constructed. And there may be a few more than that, but --
7 and the applicant can give you the specific numbers; but not
8 very many.
9 CHAIR NICKLAS : John.
10 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: On March 8 the Sheriff' s Office
11 --
12 CHAIR NICKLAS : John, will you turn your microphone on
13 please?
14 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: On March 8 the Sheriff' s Office
15 sent a letter stating concerns about school bus stops,
16 addressing systems, traffic control , [inaudible] control,
17 [inaudible] . Is it appropriate, some mention being, in that
18 regard, in the conditions of approval or development standards?
19 MONICA MIKA: I did add two additional standards from
20 what you initially saw. And one specifically addressed school
21 bus turnarounds, school stop/waiting. We did give the
22 opportunity to the Sheriff' s Office to look at the original plan
23 and then look at the revised plan as given by the applicant , and
24 they seemed to be satisfied with those issues . But you are
25 correct in your assertion -- not all those issues were ever
Page 8
1 addressed.
2 CHAIR NICKLAS : Michael .
3 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Monica, there was a -- I 'm kind
4 of confused about how this is being handled. There was two
5 letters in the package from the developer to the School District
6 in regards to a dedication of acreage for a school site . And
7 then there was a letter in there from the School District saying
8 that they were not interested in building on a school site . What
9 is the final determination there about what' s going to happen?
10 Are they going to do cash in lieu, or are they going to donate
11 a site?
12 MONICA MIKA: I can let the applicant maybe further
13 expand upon my comments . But there is a 34-acre site, which is
14 the site that' s located on the very top corner of this diagram
15 up there. And they are dedicating it to the school site; how --
- 16 to the School District . However, at this time, the School
17 District is not making any promises about actually building a
18 school site in that area. They did comment back to the
19 Department of Planning Services that at this point in time the
20 dedication of the site is fine with them, but they still have
21 some issues concerning school bus access and a shelter or kiosk
22 for students .
23 COMMISSIONER MILLER: So they are willing to accept
24 the site in lieu of cash?
25 MONICA MIKA: That' s what the most current
Page 9
1 understanding is .
2 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Okay. And there were also some
3 concerns from Public Works about drainage. Have those issues
4 been addressed?
5 MONICA MIKA: Actually, I can defer that to Ms .
6 Houghtaling.
7 DIANE HOUGHTALING: Diane Houghtaling, Public Works .
8 The drainage report is acceptable . They have not as yet shown
9 the easements on the Plat, so we still have it this morning --
10 we have to add a condition to show the easements on the Plat .
11 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Okay. Thank you.
12 CHAIR NICKLAS : Cathy?
13 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Yeah. Monica, I didn' t notice
14 anywhere here in the packet -- and maybe I just missed it ; it' s
15 a little thick. Was there anything in here with regard to -- I
16 notice that the water provider is by Central Weld. Has Central
17 Weld actually given a tap agreement for that many taps?
18 MONICA MIKA: When this subdivision was originally
19 approved, at the time of Change of Zone, there was the
20 commitment on there and the determination was made that adequate
21 water would be available to the site . Subsequently to the cases
22 that you' re reviewing now, we do ask for tap commitment up
23 front . That was not a requirement for this subdivision, so they
24 can come in and issue those parcels more or less on a case-by-
25 case basis . But there is some indication in the file that talks
Page 10
1 about phasing of the subdivision to correlate with water
2 availability, and that' s where the 2002 to 2007 -- the number of
3 taps issued there will correlate with the number of lots built .
4 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : So at the time of the original
5 filing, the Number 1 filing, you received a tap agreement for
6 the 188 , but you have not since received an agreement for the
7 remainder of the 536?
8 MONICA MIKA: Actually yes and no. At the time of the
9 original Change of Zone, one of the criteria for a Change of
10 Zone is that you can adequately say -- you can say that they
11 have -- there' s adequate water and sewer to the site . And that
12 determination was made . Now how we've, over the years, been able
13 to determine adequacy has changed. We would presently require to
14 see those taps all up front . But because this case occurred
15 prior to that change in internal administration of that, it' s --
- 16 we don' t necessarily see all the taps committed up-front on this
17 one .
18 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Okay.
19 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Monica, how do you view the fact
20 that of 188 original -- parcel one, there' s only 12 houses were
21 built, and now we' re going for 536 more homes? Do you see that
22 being a practical plan?
23 MONICA MIKA: "Practical" and "land use" -- those are
24 sometimes two different issues . The case before you today is to
25 make a determination as to whether or not the Final Plat is
Page 11
1 consistent with the Change of Zone that previously approved --
2 that was previously approved. They were previously approved for
3 a density someplace compatible with what they' re proposing.
4 Does it meet today' s standards? No, it doesn' t . And a
5 lot of that is primarily because of the proximity and the
6 magnitude of the development outside an open-growth boundary
7 area. But that' s not a condition of decision-making today.
8 CHAIR NICKLAS : Jack.
9 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Monica, in the past we did a
10 subdivision -- I don' t know where -- this might be an unclear
11 question -- over by Windsor. And they had septic systems, and we
12 recommended denial . What are 536 septic systems going to do ---
13 why are -- what -- is it okay? I mean -- answer --
14 MONICA MIKA: How about -- I ' ll try this, and if it' s
15 not complete, Pam can comment . At the time of the original
16 Change of Zone in 1983 , there is a letter to the applicant from
17 Wes Potter, who was the Director of the Health Department at
18 that time, who did approve a total overall density of 801 septic
19 systems to be located in this subdivision. So, because of that
20 guarantee at the time of Change of Zone, the Health Department
21 has been working on the issue . Have you got a comment?
22 PAM SMITH: Pam Smith, Weld County Department of
23 Public Health and Environment . What we have done now is, we have
24 asked them to -- we' re asking for things that we asked for now
25 on subdivisions that are approved, which we didn' t back in 1983
Page 12
1 or whatever it was . We' re asking for primary and secondary leach
2 fields and preservation and protection of those . Some of those
3 kinds of things that were not addressed in the past, when we had
4 situations where you had a septic system that had failed and had
5 no place to put in a new one . So we are trying to accommodate
6 some of those kinds of things .
7 It' s very sandy soil . I think, of the 12 homes that
8 are out there -- I know there is a new one that ' s been started,
9 because we issued a septic permit on it a few weeks ago. And I
10 -- that one, the perc rate met the criteria, where it didn' t
11 have to be an engineered system, which is the first one that I
12 know of out there that met that criteria. All the others have
13 been engineer-designed systems, which means that the soil is too
14 sandy; it doesn' t meet the percolation rate, and they have to go
15 in and over-excavate and bring in replacement soil that has a
16 slower perc rate to meet that criteria. So --
17 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Well , basically, it' s what we did
18 in the past, that you' re approving the septic systems?
19 PAM SMITH: We have to -- I guess we have to go by the
20 old standards and not necessarily by the new standards .
21 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Is it the same developer that is
22 changing, as in the 800 promised septic systems?
23 MONICA MIKA: It' s been a consistent -- the
24 developer' s been consistent since the original applications .
25 They've had different partners, but - -
Page 13
1 COMMISSIONER EPPLE: Okay.
2 MONICA MIKA: -- pretty consistent .
3 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Thank you.
4 CHAIR NICKLAS : Are there any more questions? Michael .
5 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Am I understanding you
6 correctly, that we are bound by the old rules as opposed to what
7 we ask for today, with -- in considering this proposal?
8 MONICA MIKA: The final -- Monica Mika. The final plat
9 -- was Lee going to answer that? Man, go ahead, Lee !
10 LEE MORRISON: It ' s my field.
11 CHAIR NICKLAS : Yeah, Lee .
12 LEE MORRISON: The first issue is the processing is
13 done under the provisions of the Zoning Ordinance that dealt
14 with final plans for PUD. I mean, there' s a difference between
15 improved design standards, like has been discussed on the
16 septics -- hasn' t been discussed, but I think' s been in effect,
17 are on the roads -- versus whether someone has gone through the
18 process and followed it appropriately, never been found to have
19 failed to pursue it in accordance with our existing rules, which
20 basically, you know, you' re not assured of being able to go
21 through the PUD process if you delay. But if you can show you've
22 consistently pursued the final plan, you' re allowed to continue .
23 So, yeah, basically they have a zoning on which they
24 can rely. It' s not a vested right, but they can rely on going
25 forward as long as they can show they've continued to do that .
Page 14
1 However, some of the design standards can be -- they have to
2 comply with current standards . The process, though, is the old
3 system of processing PUDs .
4 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Okay. Thank you.
5 [2-second interruption in tape]
6 CHAIR NICKLAS : John.
7 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: Yeah. Okay, on this -- is there
8 going to -- is the requirement to pave any of those county roads
9 that [inaudible] this development?
10 DIANE HOUGHTALING: Diane Houghtaling, Public Works .
11 The roads will be paved and they will be turned over to the
12 County for maintenance .
13 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: And the exterior roads --
14 DIANE HOUGHTALING: The exterior roads will have turn
15 lanes added, and the internal roads will be turned over to the
16 County.
17 [2-second interruption in tape}
18 CHAIR NICKLAS : Are there any other questions for
19 staff at this time? Okay. Would the applicant like to come
20 forward and give us a brief overview of the development? Would
21 you please state your name and address for the record when you
22 get to the podium, please? Thank you.
23 JIM FELL: My name is James W. Fell , F-e-1-1 . And our
24 address is 11409 West 17th Place, Lakewood, 80215 . The --this
25 development, as has been indicated, was prolonged and it has
Page 15
1 been [inaudible] -- we've been in touch with certain members of
2 the County all the time during this process was being followed.
3 The -- some of the specific things that were brought
4 up today: All of the -- all the septic systems are according to
5 higher -- new rules, have to be engineered and have to be
6 approved by the County. The -- while it' s difficult when you
7 have -- when you' re selling a lot to someone, before they have
8 any kind of a design for their house, to say exactly where the
9 two systems that are required would be, that will be required
10 before they go in for a building permit . That is the [inaudible]
11 and developer.
12 The water was discussed. We have 188 water taps that
13 we purchased -- the CBT Water that we've turned over to Central
14 Weld. If this is approved, we' ll start acquiring water for the
15 Second Filing. As you probably are all aware, there' s been a
16 considerable difference in price of water, and -- but we have --
17 we did, as I say, went out and bought all that' s necessary for
18 the First Filing and they are in the hands of Central Weld now.
19 The -- as to the soils, this is an interesting soil ,
20 and I don' t know if any of you have worked with it or not . But
21 while it' s very sandy, once it' s compact, it' s just like a rock.
22 There' s a - - it just works that way. And we've had Horizon
23 engineering [inaudible] tested for the whole area now, and have
24 found that the soils are -- that there are very few expansive
25 soils . That is, of such a minimal amount, they didn' t even spend
Page 16
1 a lot of time on it . The rest of the soils are this sand that
2 compacts very well .
3 As far as sales are concerned, we have, in the first
4 year, through August -- that would be of 1999, through August,
5 through August of ' 99 -- I mean through November of ' 99 . I ' ll
6 get it straight here in a minute -- we sold 31 lots . And from
7 the first of January this year until August of this year, we've
8 sold another 29 lots . And we have several sales pending at this
9 time . So, while sales are not like they would be if this was a
10 subdivision made up of half-acre lots and $100, 000 homes, sales
11 are doing very well, and we' re pleased with what' s happening.
12 We have, I think, now 14 approved builders . By that I
13 mean builders who have met our requirements to be able to build
14 on the project, as far as financial condition' s concerned and as
15 far their past history is concerned. I think if any of you
16 toured the place, you would be pleased with the quality of homes
17 that are being built .
18 The response, with few exceptions, has been pretty
19 good in the neighborhood. We had to go through, we had to bring
20 a gas line, for instance, 4 miles through some farms . And we
21 visited with each of the farmers, even though we had approval
22 from the County to use what had been a dedicated road. We
23 visited with each of the farmers to make sure that they
24 understood that we would be fair. They had been farming this,
25 whether it was a road or not; one of them even had a pond on it .
Page 17
1 But we assured them that we would restore everything as it has
2 been, and to my knowledge there hasn' t been a single complaint
3 by any of the farmers . I 'm sure we have done just what we said
4 we would do .
5 I think the Department -- or these Departments will
6 tell you that when they've had a request for us to do something
7 -- we might be attempting to go, to do something, and they
8 wanted a change -- we've cooperated. And of course they've
9 cooperated with us, and I 'm very happy to say that . It' s been a
10 pleasure to work with them.
11 I don' t know what else you would like to know, but I
12 would be happy to answer any specific questions you have .
13 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Are there any questions for Mr.
14 Fell at this time? John.
15 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: I understand this is a
16 Metropolitan District --
17 JIM FELL: That' s right .
18 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: Are there safeguards -- if you
19 go out to -- what' s the improvement in the way of roads and
20 facilities, based on the subdivision, and of course this would
21 [inaudible] expenses to making improvements -- are there any
22 safeguards of the purchasers of lots if the economy changes and
23 there aren' t any more lots sold, so there' s relatively few lots,
24 few homeowners or landowners out there, that they are protected
25 against having all that indebtedness put on their shoulders?
Page 18
1 JIM FELL: The total indebtedness of the Metropolitan
2 District at this time is $2 , 400, 000 . It consists of a $2 million
3 bond issue and a $400 , 000 note issued to one of our -- one of
4 our investors, who loaned money to purchase the water that I
5 mentioned. The -- if the land -- if we stopped today, and we had
6 to go back and sell the land as grazing land, which it was
7 before, and we took the moneys that we have -- we had reserved,
8 of course, for the bond payments; they' re all reserved and we' re
9 up to date on it . If we did those things, our analysis is we
10 would be able to pay off every bit of the debt and nobody would
11 suffer. And obviously, they wouldn' t be as happy with selling a
12 total of 60 lots as they will be if we have several hundred, as
13 far as the community is concerned. But we have watched this very
14 carefully. We know what happened down south of Denver. The fact
15 is, some of our investors had the misfortune to own some of
16 those [inaudible] .
17 But anyway, we' re watching it very carefully and this
18 District is solid. It' s -- we have an agreement between the
19 developer and the District, that if the District runs short of
20 money, the developer -- the developer pays development fees to
21 the District each time a lot is sold, to help cover the money
22 that' s been advanced for development costs . And [inaudible] that
23 the developer will pay advance fees, and in case there' s a
24 shortfall of money within the District . So far they've paid
25 $160, 000 in advance fees .
Page 19
1 Now this is not a debt of the District . This is merely
2 an advance fee for the benefit of the development . And we
3 probably will draw some more as we go along, because it' s
4 interest free . It doesn' t -- it isn' t a debt to the District,
5 and it' s just part of the agreement between the Metropolitan
6 District and the developer. Does that answer your question?
7 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: Thank you.
8 CHAIR NICKLAS : Is there anyone else who has any
9 questions for Mr. Fell at this time?
10 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Yes .
11 CHAIR NICKLAS : Michael .
12 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Can you address the issue of the
13 school site, or what the agreement is on that?
14 JIM FELL: Well , it' s just [interruption in tape --
15 voices inaudible for about 50 seconds . ]
16 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Mr. Fell , you said you had
17 acquired the water taps for the original plat that you had in
18 there .
19 JIM FELL: Right .
20 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Do the additional 536 lots now
21 need to be -- does your border main have to be increased for
22 that capacity?
23 JIM FELL: We have -- each time we -- we' re building
24 this in phases .
25 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Right .
Page 20
1 JIM FELL: And each time we build a phase, we put in
2 all of the infrastructure, including the water lines, and the --
3 we put all of the utilities and the roads and everything, the
4 drainage, and everything is done phase by phase .
5 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: I understand that . But I 'm
6 talking about the main coming into that [inaudible] --
7 JIM FELL: No, we don' t have to increase it . It' s
8 sufficient, and we have -- we bought a pump, like my friend --
9 where is he? My friend, J. L. Walter, who works with -- J. L.
10 Walter, who works for us, also works for the water company. And
11 I swore we bought that pump to feed water to a dairy, but they
12 keep saying it was just for us . We spent $174 , 000 on a pump so
13 there would be proper balance throughout the District .
14 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: So you increased the pressure
15 for your development then.
16 JIM FELL: We've got the pressure balanced for our
17 development .
18 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Okay.
19 JIM FELL: Is that right, J. L. ?
20 J. L. WALTER: That' s correct .
21 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: What is the size of the main
22 coming off, and where -- what -- where is your -- what do I want
23 to say? Where is your tap into the Central Weld line?
24 JIM FELL: Our water comes -- you know the storage
25 tanks up on top of the hill?
Page 21
1 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Yeah.
2 JIM FELL: Are you acquainted with the area? There' s
3 two big storage tanks up there . We paid for one of them. And
4 it' s a -- I forget how many gallons it is, but it' s very large,
5 and it' s going to serve the whole -- a lot of the area out there
6 besides us . And the water is pumped in from someplace into those
7 tanks, and from those tanks it' s distributed -- it goes to our
8 distribution line . We put in all the distribution lines for the
9 water company, but they become immediately the property of the
10 water company.
11 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: So the center -- I understand
12 that . What size, coming off the tanks, what size is your main?
13 JIM FELL: What have we got, J. L. ?
14 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : 8, 10?
15 J. L. WALTER: We have --
- 16 CHAIR NICKLAS : Would -- could you please come to the
17 microphone and state your name and address for the record? Thank
18 you. A little bit of protocol we have to follow here.
19 J. L. WALTER: My name' s J. L. Walter, 2318 Osage
20 Court, Loveland, Colorado . If I could just point out here --
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : Sure.
22 J. L. WALTER: We have tanks up in this area here . We
23 have also the pump station up there . Even though it' s at the
24 highest point , we went through our engineering [inaudible] .
25 Originally we were going to put the pump station at the
Page 22
1 entranceway into the development, but found that it was actually
2 better to have it up here .
3 Coming out of -- to answer your question, coming out
4 of that pump, we have a 14-inch line that comes down one mile,
5 and then a 12-inch line on down to this point, with a 10-inch
6 line that is extending through phase one . From there we come out
7 with basically 8-inch lines, and that means -- that allows us to
8 meet our fire flow requirements .
9 Then, in the future, for this development here, we
10 will be bringing another 12-inch line down, and down through the
11 property, and down in this area here, and then carry it on
12 through with a 10-inch line that' ll wrap on through and down,
13 come back up and tie back in here . That gives us a looping of
14 our systems .
15 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : Yeah, the other question I had is
16 kind of based on -- you know, I 'm sure that you' re aware that
17 it' s becoming harder and harder to find both CBT and Windy Gap
18 shares . Do you feel that you are going to fairly confidently be
19 able to locate enough water shares to own and/or lease, to build
20 out this subdivision?
21 JIM FELL: The price of water has jumped, as
22 everybody' s aware, dramatically. So far there hasn' t been any
23 shortage for people who are willing to pay the price . In fact,
24 I had -- when I was getting that first 180 CBT units, I was
25 working like the dickens to get somebody to sell me water. Of
Page 23
1 course, I was buying it around $4000 a unit . The price jumped up
2 over $10, 000 [inaudible] ; I believe it' s $15, 500 ( "fifteen-
3 five" ) per unit . And I got phone calls several times a week,
4 trying to sell me water.
5 There' s plenty of water to be purchased, but the price
6 is going to determine, you know, whether you can buy it or not .
7 It' s kind of hard to farm some farms with water that ' s worth
8 $15, 000 a unit of CBT' s . It isn' t economic, especially if
9 there' s an opportunity to get some of their ditch water. So, the
10 answer, as soon as we can find out -- and of course I 've been in
11 touch with Northern Water Conservancy, who controls this water,
12 and they tell me there' s plenty of water, but it' s going to be
13 expensive .
14 Now, when you say it' s going to be expensive, it' s a
15 very simple matter of economics . If people are going to build
16 homes on lots, if they' re going to buy lots, they have to have
17 water. And if we have an expense that' s much higher, we'd have
18 to pass it on to the builder, and they have to pass it on to the
19 buyer. Now, there could be a point where water made it
20 uneconomic to build a home, I don' t know. But at the moment it
21 isn' t a big -- it isn' t a big part of the cost of the home .
22 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Okay.
23 [3-second interruption in tape]
24 CHAIR NICKLAS : Any other questions from the Planning
25 Commission? Michael .
Page 24
1 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Can you describe the work that
2 you intend to do in the lake, that ' s permitted by the Corps of
3 Engineers?
4 JIM FELL: Yeah, we' re starting now. We' re out there
5 working now. [interruption/flaw in tape, voices essentially
6 inaudible for 1-3/4 minutes, during Mr. Fell ' s answer, a further
7 question from Commissioner Miller, Mr. Fell ' s next answer]
8 CHAIRMAN NICKLAS : Are there any other questions from
9 the Planning Commission at this time? Okay. Seeing none, if you
10 would like to take a seat, Mr. Fell, for just a few minutes . Is
11 there anyone in the audience that would like to speak for or
12 against this case? Would you please come forward to the podium
13 and state your name and address for the record?
14 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : I'm Jane Evans Cornelius, 18300
15 Weld County Road 43 . I own the ranch that is to the east and
16 wraps around this development . I wrote a letter that condenses
17 my concerns and the concerns of my neighbor. When I --
18 neighbors . When I called the Planning Office, they said, please
19 don' t have a hundred people come in; have one person be the
20 spokesperson. Well I 'm not an official spokesperson; however,
21 this letter condenses what my neighbors have told me.
22 I take issue with Mr. Fell on two things . Granted, he
23 has, certainly, really tried to comply. I 'm not saying he' s a
24 bad person. However, I take issue with the fact that the
25 neighbors are in favor of this . First of all, no one got any
Page 25
1 notice until this last series -- well, let me take that back.
2 Many people did not get proper notice as to the original filing.
3 I am the adjoining landowner, share borders; I got no
4 notice . I got the recent notice when I called the Planning
5 Office and asked to be put on the list . The Beebe Draw Gun Club,
6 which is an adjoining property owner, got no notice until they
7 called the Planning Office . In talking with several neighbors,
8 no one has gotten the official notice until they called.
9 Over the weekend, several neighbors and myself went
10 around with a copy of this letter, which condenses various
11 people' s concerns . And we got names -- every single house that
12 the half dozen of us stopped at, the people were extremely
13 opposed -- not moderately opposed -- extremely opposed, saying,
14 "How could this happen? This fragile soil , this ecosystem, these
15 septic tanks, " on and on and on. I have got some of these signed
16 petitions here with me . I will deliver another stack within the
17 next couple of days, because one of my neighbors is on a corn
18 combine right now and couldn' t get off the combine .
19 CHAIR NICKLAS : Would you please give those to our
20 lawyer for a second? And then he' ll pass them around to us . They
21 have to put it in for an exhibit .
22 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : We will probably bring in
23 another stack of those tomorrow afternoon.
24 Mr. Fell also discussed the soil . I live there; I
25 ranch there . The soil does not compact . It blows like the Sahara
Page 26
1 Desert . We have blow holes out there now which are unbelievable .
2 I 've got ranch roads that have never silted over that are
3 silting over now. Fortunately, one of the oil companies helped
4 me out, cleared a couple of them. But I am very concerned that
5 Milton Reservoir, Christina Lake, the Farmers Reservoir and
6 Irrigation Company ditch, the Platte Valley Irrigation ditch,
7 will require way more maintenance . If you drive up in there
8 today, you will notice that around all of the dozen to 15 to 20
9 houses, there' s just blowing fragile sand.
10 We did an oil -- had an oil well fracked on my ranch
11 4 years ago. The company has been in, every single year,
12 [inaudible] manure, [inaudible] straw. We have still not been
13 able to get the original growth to come back -- 4 years . And
14 this [inaudible] -- I mean, that' s what it looks like there.
15 I also have a report that a local realtor, pulled this
16 morning of the information that he has available on what has
17 been sold, and I' ll gladly pass that around.
18 CHAIR NICKLAS : Could you please also give that to our
19 lawyer first? Thank you.
20 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : Sure . This is the only copy I
21 have of this, and of the petitions .
22 CHAIR NICKLAS : Would you like to have copies made for
23 yourself?
24 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : Yes, please .
25 CHAIR NICKLAS : Would that be possible, Monica? Okay.
Page 27
1 Thank you.
2 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : I would like to read into the
3 record a comment by a senior wildlife researcher from the
4 Colorado Division of Wildlife, who did part of the Borial Toad
5 study on my ranch, which is -- and in those ponds . They captured
6 ordinary toads to determine how much they could handle them
7 before they started working on the Borial toads . He asked me to
8 read this into the record:
9 "The proposed 536 lots in the Pelican Lake subdivision
10 will very likely cause damage to the fragile sand-sage
11 ecosystem. The plant community will not withstand the
12 construction and occupation of this large number of homes . I
13 have further concerns that this high density of housing will
14 contaminate groundwater with over 500 individual waste treatment
15 systems discharging into a sandy substrata. Respectfully, John
16 P . [inaudible] , Jr. "
17 And I think we have several other neighbors who would
18 like to comment .
19 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Just a minute, Jane . Would you
20 entertain any questions from the Planning Commission, if they
21 have any?
22 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : Sure, but I 'm not a
23 professional --
24 CHAIR NICKLAS : That' s fine . Does anyone have any
25 questions for Jane? Jack.
Page 28
1 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Yeah, how long have you lived and
2 how -- are you within 500 feet of this Special Use Permit?
3 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : Yes, I am.
4 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Okay.
5 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : My fence is this end.
6 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Okay. How large is your ranch?
7 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : A little under 700 acres .
8 COMMISSIONER EPPLE: Thank you.
9 CHAIR NICKLAS : Bryant?
10 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: You said you were representing
11 a coalition or an association of people?
12 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : That -- that' s stretching it .
13 Just a group of neighbors asked if I would stand up and speak.
14 It' s not a formal association. But when I called the Planning
15 Office, they said please have one person go summarize the
16 concerns, rather than have 50 people stand up and talk.
17 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: Thank you.
18 JANE EVANS CORNELIUS : I think when you look at that
19 petition, you will see that most of the people make reference to
20 the letter that I wrote, summarizing not just my concerns but
21 about 40 neighbors concerns .
22 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Is there anyone else who' d like
23 to speak? Okay. Thank you, Jane . Next person like to get up and
24 -- you' ll all have time .
25 JAMES OSTER: My name is James Oster, 19923 Weld
Page 29
1 County Road 43 , LaSalle . I live approximately 3 miles from this
2 potential housing development -- or where there are already
3 houses . I have a letter. I signed a petition, and I said the
4 letter would follow. I would like to give this letter to the
5 Planners .
6 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Could you give it to our County
7 Attorney, for him to mark it as an exhibit, please?
8 JAMES OSTER: I have an original with a [inaudible] .
9 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Thank you.
10 JAMES OSTER: I may repeat some of the things Jane
11 said, but I think I have the right to do that . First of all, I ' d
12 like to ask the Planners, how many of you have been out there
13 and looked at this site? To me, it' s a mini-Sahara Desert
14 potential ; it has the potential . I 've been out there in the wind
15 and it looks like snow drifts, the sand drifts so bad.
16 And if this thing does not fly, and these people walk
17 away from this, which has happened, I think, two times --
18 investors default and things have gone bad, they went broke --
19 I could be wrong, it may be not true . This is the third time . If
20 this thing doesn' t fly, this could be a big problem, from all
21 the surrounding property owners, because this ground is very,
22 very fragile . It doesn' t compact like this gentleman said. I
23 know this soil . I 've lived here all my life .
24 Another problem I have : This area -- I 've seen it over
25 the years of my life, almost 60 years -- it' s highly lightning-
Page 30
1 prone . There have been many tank batteries struck in this area.
2 Now we have these tall houses . Just this summer the lightning
3 struck and we had a grass fire . For some reason, it' s very
4 lightning prone .
5 I would like - - if you have my letter, I would like to
6 talk about this potential school . Mr. Fell said he has deeded
7 some land to the District . What School District was that?
8 CHAIR NICKLAS : Monica? RE-1 .
9 JAMES OSTER: RE-1 . Okay. This land has been deeded to
10 the School District . Is that right?
11 CHAIR NICKLAS : Yes .
12 JAMES OSTER: That ' s right? Okay. If the School
13 District does not build a house on there, can they sell that
14 land?
15 CHAIR NICKLAS : Yes .
16 JAMES OSTER: It belongs to them. Okay. If the school
17 is built, who' s going to pay the taxes to build this school and
18 support this school? All the property owners, the farmers --
19 we' re having a tough time paying our own tax. Now we have to
20 deal with other schools for all these houses, the residents of
21 these houses? Are these houses going to support the children
22 that go to school?
23 CHAIR NICKLAS : Let' s -- please just state your
24 concerns and then he will --
25 JAMES OSTER: My concern --
Page 31
1 CHAIR NICKLAS : I know, yes, Mr. Oster. But he will
2 have a chance to respond to your questions when he gets back up.
3 JAMES OSTER: Okay. My concern is the potential maybe
4 of a thousand new students coming into the School District . Who
5 is going to pay to support all these children' s education? The
6 development? Or is it the surrounding landowners? That' s a big
7 question.
8 Fire protection -- I had a big question with that . We
9 pay taxes for fire control to the LaSalle District . e [Inaudible]
10 this is a highly flammable area. In the summertime it gets very
11 dry out there . There' s just cheat grass, very, very dry. And if
12 the lightning hits it, or someone lights a match, that stuff
13 just burns like gasoline . Is this development going to pay all
14 this money for their fire protection? Or is it the farmers or
15 all the taxpayers surrounding going to have to help kick in on
16 this? Is there an answer to that question?
17 CHAIR NICKLAS : You' ll have to ask either the Fire
18 Department or the developer. We can' t answer that question.
19 JAMES OSTER: [inaudible]
20 CHAIR NICKLAS : Well, he will have a chance to answer
21 your questions when he comes back up after the public portion.
22 JAMES OSTER: Okay. Law enforcement . I know there' s a
23 little house out there, supposedly [inaudible] . Are there
24 adequate plans for law enforcement? Traffic : What' s the main
25 traffic route from all these hundreds of people eventually? I
Page 32
1 would like that answered. What roads are going to be used? Our
2 roads are very fragile right now; they' re very overused. You
3 can' t even hardly drive on them, they' re so bad. Who' s here that
4 can answer that question about the traffic routes?
5 CHAIR NICKLAS : We have a staff member that' ll answer
6 that question at the end of the public meeting. Diane, if you' ll
7 take that down, and we' ll answer that question at the end.
8 JAMES OSTER: Yeah, I want that answered. What is the
9 traffic route? And how are they going to update these roads if
10 they build all these houses?
11 Jane talked about the ecology of it [inaudible] . It' s
12 very sandy soil . There is very little native grass left because
13 it was over-grazed. It' s mostly just cheat grass and sand. And
14 wherever they have dug a hole, you have a blow hole . That' s
15 [inaudible] dirt flying, moving. These are very fragile sand
16 hills .
17 I would like to know about this lake they' re going to
18 build. You said you' re going to build a lake right up here .
19 JIM FELL: I never said [inaudible]
20 JAMES OSTER: My note says you' re building a lake .
21 JIM FELL: We' re building a marina on [inaudible] .
22 JAMES OSTER: Oh, on the Milton Reservoir. You' re not
23 building a lake. Well , I drive through there, it looks like you
24 were building a holding pond. What is that big hole there?
25 CHAIR NICKLAS : Sir, could we please just have your
Page 33
1 comments and not a dialogue between the developer and you? He
2 will have a chance to answer your questions when -- at the end
3 of the public comments .
4 JAMES OSTER: Well, I took down in my notes they' re
5 building a lake, and I wanted to know what [inaudible] build a
6 lake . Okay. We talked about traffic problems . If you put horses
7 out there on that land, the land is very fragile; it won' t
8 support an animal in a small environ. When Bollenger brothers
9 had all that land, I don' t know -- they probably had one cow to
10 maybe a hundred acres, I don' t know. And now they' re going to
11 put maybe one horse on 10 acres . All I see is sand.
12 The water availability -- when you buy lots there, I
13 would like to know, does the water tap come with it or do you
14 have to buy the water tap extra?
15 CHAIR NICKLAS : I think the water tap is -- has to be
16 purchased by the person who buys and builds the home .
17 JAMES OSTER: Oh, you have to bring the water with
18 you.
19 CHAIR NICKLAS : You have to -- there has to be a water
20 tap available, and you -- the homeowner will have to purchase a
21 water tap, and it will have to be available.
22 JAMES OSTER: Okay. Do you realize that one unit of
23 CBT water probably does not support a house? Some years it' s 43
24 percent more . That' s a half an acre-foot . This year was 100
25 percent . That' s the first year time in many years the Water
Page 34
1 District has made 100 percent quota . One unit - - even Harry
2 Wilkerson says one unit will not support a house.
3 I am concerned [inaudible] groundwater protection. All
4 these septic tanks in this very sandy soil , and they say they' re
5 going to have to put special soil in so the percolation doesn' t
6 percolate so fast . How is it going to affect the lake, the
7 groundwater that we drink, that we grow our crops in?
8 [inaudible] I don' t [inaudible] irrigation company.
9 If people buy 10-acre lots, how are they going to keep
10 this under control with weeds? They don' t have any equipment . I
11 have a big concern of people moving in and buying these lots,
12 and then they have no way of keeping down weed control .
13 And I have -- another concern is the right to farm.
14 These people come in there and they think they own the
15 Ponderosa, and they have to control all the neighboring farmers
16 and ranchers . The point [inaudible] someday we may not even be
17 able to spray our farms with airplanes because they' ll say "Oh,
18 you can' t go over my land. " [inaudible] Is there plans in this
19 that the neighboring farmers have the right to continue farming,
20 and they can' t interfere with our farming and ranching? That' s
21 a question I' d like answered.
22 There are many gas and oil wells, and gas lines
23 through this area. Have you researched those? Recently a big gas
24 line blew up in New Mexico. There' s some huge gas lines go
25 through that property.
Page 35
1 I think my wife has some questions .
2 LELIA OSTER: My name is Lelia Oster. I live at 19923
3 Weld County Road 43 , in LaSalle . This, as my husband said, is
4 located about 3 miles north of the proposed development . We are
5 on a Colorado Centennial farm, which was established in 1894 .
6 As a former teacher, I am highly concerned with the
7 School District . I saw what happened in the Hudson School
8 District when I taught there, when there were numerous houses
9 built in that area. We scrambled at Hudson Elementary School to
10 find enough room for those students . This is not in the interest
11 of the students, to bring such a large development in the area
12 without proper school facility planning, I don' t feel .
13 It is -- another high concern I have is with the
14 traffic . The main road into the area is Weld County Road 39, to
15 the south and to the north into LaSalle and Greeley. The main
16 west road is Weld County Road 32 , into Platteville . At some 700
17 houses at probably two vehicles per house -- I wouldn' t want to
18 be out there with just one vehicle -- you' re talking 1400 extra
19 vehicles eventually on our roads . We all know what the fatality
20 rate is in Weld County. Do we want all this extra traffic on our
21 roads?
22 All the surrounding peripheral roads are dirt roads
23 that are terrible to travel on. My concern, you cannot control
24 and say those people have to only go on Road 39 and Road 32 ,
25 because the other roads are public also. What will be done to
Page 36
1 protect us who currently live on those roads from the dust, from
2 everything else that happens on the road?
3 There was a two-person fatality at our corner last
4 year, because the people did not obey the stop sign. This is
5 something the Planning Commission and the County Commissioners
6 need to seriously consider. Thank you.
7 CHAIR NICKLAS : Thank you.
8 JAMES OSTER: I seriously want -- would like the
9 Planning Commission to consider and not approve this additional
10 housing. This ground is way too fragile . Before you vote, go out
11 there and look at this land, and see how sandy it is . Talk to
12 some of the people who live there now. Every time the wind
13 blows, their yard gets full of sand, their sidewalks, their
14 buildings get full of sand. Please talk to these people before
15 you allow more developers to go out there and destroy this very
16 fragile soil . Thank you very much.
17 CHAIR NICKLAS : Thank you. Are there any questions for
18 Mr. Oster -- Mr. or Mrs . Oster? Thank you.
19 JAMES OSTER: I do hope to get some answers to my
20 questions .
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Is there anyone else who would
22 like to speak about this case? Please come to the microphone;
23 state your name and address for the records .
24 ROY WARDELL: My name is Roy Wardell . I live on 18253
25 Weld County Road 32, which is the first ranch house east of --
Page 37
1 west of 39 on 32 , I had to go back and look. Actually that
2 corner is about 7 miles; I 'm about 6 miles east of Platteville .
3 And our ranch -- I ' ll just point it out -- our ranch borders on
4 3 miles of the division here, from the corner here, 2-1/2 miles
5 north and a mile -- no, I 'm sorry, 2-1/2 miles here and a mile
6 here, so we have 3-1/2 miles . I 'm sorry, maybe you can' t hear
7 me . We have 3-1/2 miles of border on the subdivision.
8 And I didn' t sign a petition, and I didn' t come here
9 necessarily to oppose this subdivision. Nor did I come even
10 necessarily to speak. I 've met Jim Fell when they started the
11 subdivision, and a couple of things he said actually prompted me
12 to get up here today and say a couple things . And there' s some
13 additional things I want to say.
14 One of the things that -- I believe that somewhere in
15 this Front Range, we have to provide housing for the people who
16 want to. So I 'm not necessarily opposed to development . You
17 know, this is part of the bed we've made for ourselves, and
18 somehow we have to provide for it . And in some ways that' s not
19 necessarily a bad place . But on the other hand, I think there' s
20 some infrastructure and some concerns that may be not -- haven' t
21 been taken fully into account, and I think there' s some
22 legitimate question as to whether that ' s the right place for
23 that big a subdivision.
24 And first of all , my intent is to be a good neighbor
25 with Jim Fell . I've assumed, since 10 or 12 years ago, that this
Page 38
1 was going to be an accomplished fact, that there was going to be
2 a subdivision there, and so I don' t come with necessarily an
3 attitude of "no development, it can' t be done . "
4 A couple things that Jim said, I want to respond to.
5 That one of the things I expect and one thing that' s most
6 important to me when I 'm dealing with a neighbor, or whatever,
7 I expect integrity. And I think Jim stretched the truth a little
8 bit this morning, and I also have some compliments . And I also
9 have a proposal to work with him on -- with my ranch and his
10 place, that might make it a better place for everybody out
11 there . But -- and I also want to say that I haven' t seen him for
12 several months . I was going to compliment him on having some
13 people out there cleaning up the barrow pits along that road.
14 And I said to myself, and I said to those folks [inaudible] I
15 didn' t know what they were doing. They were climbing in my
16 fence, reaching across the fence in places, taking out some
17 trash. And by God, we need that . And Jim had some people out
18 there doing that, and that' s, as far as I'm concerned being a
19 good neighbor. And he had to do it for his job, but it also is
20 good for me; I hate seeing all the trash up there .
21 So I don' t come to be -- to make an enemy of Jim. But
22 Jim, one of the things you did say the very first time I met
23 you, I have a very serious complaint to you, as a farmer next
24 door to you. If you hadn' t said that you' d always done
25 everything and you let your neighbors know -- I spent two weeks
Page 39
1 finding out who had staked across my property for a mile. But
2 the stakes were something, I said -- I bet I made 20 phone calls
3 before I figured the development was coming across with a gas
4 line . And I wasn' t very happy, as Jim will remember, at that
5 point .
6 So what you say, that there hasn' t been any complaints
7 or that you've always let the farmers know what you were doing,
8 is not quite the accurate truth. And you apologized for that,
9 and I don' t hold any grudge about that . But I do resent your
10 saying that there' s never been any complaints or any problems
11 with farmer neighbors . Okay?
12 The other thing I would challenge -- my grandfather
13 homesteaded on our ranch; my dad grew up there, I grew up there,
14 we've been there for three generations . We farm sand. And that
15 ground, I don' t care how many times you run over it, it will
16 compact so things don' t grow in it, but it will not compact so
17 it won' t blow. I guarantee you that . And you had -- but you know
18 that, because as other people said, there' s sand drifts blowing
19 around the foundations over there, and there' s no way to keep
20 that sand from blowing except by covering it with something,
21 whether it be something growing, which is my next concern.
22 Water is -- I don' t know how much water he has, and I
23 don' t know how much it' s going to cost, or all that . But I have
24 a hunch that there' s going to be some pretty disappointed
25 people, when they buy houses out there, and they expect to plant
Page 40
1 a lawn. And that sand, if it' s fertilized, it will grow
2 wonderful lawns . But it will take one hell of a lot of water. I
3 mean, the water bill will be very, very high. And I don' t know
4 whether there' s been a Xeriscape plan put in to grow dryland
5 grass that can be planted and not disturbed, and I don' t know
6 whether there' s been any talk about that . But I know they' re
7 planting lawns back there, and I know that will be probably a
8 pretty rude awakening to the people that are moving out there,
9 once they get it covered up. And right now there' s a problem
10 with getting it covered up.
11 And at times back there when the wind was blowing I
12 saw, and I made a not-very-nice comment to Jim, after I ' d been
13 rather mad at him, and said, "Well, there' s the sand blowing. "
14 Like it was very -- those sand hills, by the way, blew off the
15 sandbars of the Platte River when it was a big river. That' s
16 where that sand came from, 10, 000 years ago, geologically. My
17 dad has an interest in geology. That' s where those sand --
18 that' s where those sandhills came from. They blew off the
19 sandbars of the Platte River 10, 000 years ago. So it' ll blow out
20 the same way it blew in, I ' ll guarantee you that . My biggest
21 problem with ranching out there is to keep it from blowing.
22 And one question: Are you still saying that horses
23 aren' t allowed?
24 MR. FELL: [inaudible]
25 ROY WARDELL: No, that' s not true . That' s not true.
Page 41
1 That' s not true .
2 JIM FELL: They are not allowed to graze .
3 ROY WARDELL: Huh?
4 JIM FELL: They' re not allowed to graze on the
5 property.
6 ROY WARDELL : Okay. Well , every place there' s going to
7 be a horse kept , there will be sand blowing. I don' t care if
8 it' s 2 or 3 acres . If people want to come out there with 2 or 3
9 acres, can they run their horse on their 2 or 3 acres?
10 JIM FELL: Ride it .
11 ROY WARDELL: Huh?
12 JIM FELL: They can ride their horse .
13 ROY WARDELL: Can they not run on that 2 or 3 acres?
14 JIM FELL : [inaudible]
15 CHAIR NICKLAS : We can' t have dialogue between the two
16 of you, okay?
17 ROY WARDELL : Okay. I 'm sorry. I apologize for that .
18 CHAIR NICKLAS : We' ll ask the question and who can
19 answer it --
20 ROY WARDELL: That' s a question I had.
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Thank you.
22 ROY WARDELL: Let me just make a statement . Any place
23 where there' s a horse that -- one horse, allowed to run on -- I
24 don' t care how -- whether it' s 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 acres . It will
25 -- the vegetation, within probably a year, will be completely
Page 42
1 eroded. There won' t -- it will blow away.
2 Okay. I guess - - okay. I guess that' s my -- those are
3 my -- really my concerns . And I want to say that I still intend
4 to be a good neighbor. You' re going to be there, you' re not
5 going away. I do -- and I hope you don' t, because you've got a
6 site there. But I really do question whether the infrastructure
7 will handle 5 -- is really wise at this point to do 536 more
8 lots . Maybe, I think there' s more that needs to be done. Thank
9 you.
10 CHAIR NICKLAS : Thank you. Are there -- Roy, would you
11 just wait a second?
12 ROY WARDELL: I 'm sorry. Are there any questions?
13 CHAIR NICKLAS : Are there any questions for Roy at
14 this time? Seeing none, thank you very much. Is there anyone
15 else that would like to speak? Please stand and state your name
16 and address for the record.
17 KARL JEPSEN: My name is Karl Jepsen the second.
18 [inaudible] My brother and I reside at 20121 Road 42 . We have a
19 pasture that ' s just to the east of this, and adjoining Mrs .
20 Cornelius' s Pilot Ridge Ranch. Like everybody else, I 've got
21 some of the same concerns . I 'm concerned about all the septic
22 tanks . As everybody said, this is a pretty pristine area .
23 There' s -- our property has a lot of ponds on it; we' re down in
24 the drainage area where we get a lot of sub-irrigation from the
25 Milton Reservoir. If the dam every breaks, you' ll see our cows
Page 43
1 in Kersey or somewhere .
2 If you ever test the -- look at the water out there,
3 it' s pretty clear and clean. And I'm worried about all the
4 septic tanks going in. I can' t understand why, when it' s
5 completed, it' s going to have as many people as the town of
6 LaSalle or some other small towns, that there' s no septic system
7 planned for it . That' s kind of crazy. I think that the people
8 are going to hear about that sometime in the future maybe, that
9 things' ll -- won' t work right, or they' ll have to end up putting
10 some system in sometime, and that' s going to be a heck of an
11 additional cost to them. Right now, I ' d kind of label it a
12 septic city because of the way it' s being planned and it' s a
13 little crazy to me .
14 Our property is to the east, like I said. It' s in a
15 low area. I 'm kind of concerned about where their runoff is
16 going to go . Anything [inaudible] runoff would be possibly
17 damaging to our grasses and stuff, then we' d lose the ability to
18 grow our cattle down there .
19 And another concern that other people have talked
20 about is fire protection. [inaudible] I don' t know how many
21 miles from LaSalle fire office . I don' t -- they had a fire out
22 there this summer and something burned, I don' t know. Jim said
23 it was a fuel tank or a well . But if it takes off close to the
24 border of the place or somewhere, then it might go through our
25 fences, our property, our cattle. I 'm worried about what kind of
Page 44
1 firebreaks they' re going to have, or what' s going to happen that
2 way. I don' t know what they' re planning there, but it needs --
3 the other map showed a lot of green areas that -- I wouldn' t
4 call them greenbelts; they' re more like brown belts, the way the
5 grasses are . Any year, lots of sagebrush and lots of cheat grass
6 and sump grass, and it' s brown more than green up there .
7 I'm concerned about them using the lake for recreation
8 too -- Milton Lake, or Lake Christina. Most of the water from
9 the lake comes from the Platte River. The Platte River, if you
10 talk to people that are -- in the wintertime, when they' re
11 filling the lake, comes direct from the Metro Denver sewage
12 plant, so they' re getting a lot of sewage fluids in there to
13 fill the lake that we use. That' s about all you get in Weld
14 County anymore for irrigation water, is -- whether it' s a
15 direct-run ditch or whether it' s out of a lake like that, or
16 wherever. It' s [inaudible] water.
17 And I think there' s some health concerns that need to
18 be addressed there . Is the Health Department going to run tests
19 for e . coli or other problems, or other diseases on the lake,
20 once a week, or whenever they' re boating? If anybody' s boating
21 or fishing, there' s got to be some concerns about people getting
22 hurt through diseases .
23 I 'm also concerned about free-running dogs, with our
24 cattle down there during the summer. I did have a lot of
25 problems with animals chasing ours through the fence and mixing
Page 45
1 them in with Mrs . Cornelius' s registered herd. Our bull and her
2 cattle might not mix so well , our commercial herd and her
3 registered ones . It could be trouble .
4 I 'm also worried about kids going on our pond. I don' t
5 know -- it' d be nice if they had an 8-foot fence around the
6 place, chain link or something there, to keep people out, or
7 signs posted, or something.
8 It all bothers me [inaudible] what they' re planning to
9 do. We were here back in ' 83 , or when -- ' 85 , whenever they
10 first started it . I don' t remember Mr. Fell being here. I
11 remember Mr. Burke being the one we were arguing with, and I
12 think they did go through a couple bankruptcies since then, or
13 something -- Mr. Burke did, or sold it and traded it, or got out
14 from under it somehow. And it just doesn' t make any sense down
15 there for me to say that that' s a good place for a development .
16 There' s no services around, there' s nothing that people can do
17 except for go to Greeley, or maybe if they' re going shopping
18 they' ll probably go to Fort Collins, like they say in the paper;
19 everybody else does .
20 So those are my concerns .
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Thank you. Is there any
22 questions for Mr. Jepsen? Thank you. Is there anyone else that
23 would like to speak to this development? Sir?
24 JOHN JEPSEN: My name is John Jepsen. I live at 20121
25 Weld County Road 42 , LaSalle . I have a few concerns about the
Page 46
1 septic tank that I addressed to the County. And they say they
2 have to engineer it . Now how does the County Planning Department
3 or Building Inspecting Department -- do they check up on it
4 after they mix different soils? Check the percolation? Do they
5 check it more than once to make sure it' s right? One concern.
6 A few more questions . The water tank there -- I know
7 the first water tank was built there in the late ' 60s when the
8 softer water came in, and probably 10, 15 years later, the
9 second one was there, built . So I don' t know how these gentlemen
10 here could say they paid for it, or whether they gave them a lot
11 of money to use it .
12 Fire protection -- they say they have a pump there to
13 provide them adequate water pressure . Just looking at the area,
14 their elevation isn' t too far different from the storage tank
15 where they' re drawing water from in their houses, so they say
16 they do need a pump. But what would happen if the power goes out
17 and they have a fire? Will they have adequate water to put out
18 a fire, to provide water for the people that' s living there?
19 Will there be --
20 And traffic on Road 39 -- last year there was a waste
21 oil disposal [inaudible] put in 2 miles north of this location,
22 where there is a lot of oil field traffic . The shoulders are
23 narrow -- hard to get large farm equipment down to that road.
24 And stray animals chasing livestock that they like to
25 come out and watch; stray dogs, cats . A lot of these cats will
Page 47
1 go up to birds out there that are nesting; dogs will chase cows,
2 horses; dogs on the lake . And when Mr. Burke presented this
3 originally, he promised the County to help upgrade the
4 Platteville Road and help maintain it, so has there been any
5 discussion on that with the County Roads Bridge -- how much
6 they' ll have to pay to do that? So, thank you.
7 CHAIR NICKLAS : Thank you. Are there any questions?
8 Thank you. Is there anyone else that' d like to speak -- in the
9 audience that' d like to speak to this case?
10 Okay. Seeing none, I close the public portion of this
11 case . Would the applicant please come forward? I 'm sorry. Would
12 the applicant please come -- he' d already -- is there anyone
13 else?
14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I have one more question
15 [inaudible]
16 CHAIR NICKLAS : I'm sorry. I 'm sorry. That' s okay. Go
17 ahead, Mr. Fell . He' s finished.
18 JIM FELL: A number of the same things were presented
19 in different ways, and I certainly appreciate the concern of the
20 people [inaudible] . I ' m not in any way belittling anything that
21 they felt it -- was a real concern. We spoke to some of them.
22 The first thing I want to do is talk to my friend back
23 there . The particular thing that happened on that -- those
24 stakes . We hired a surveying party to survey this gas line, and
25 I thought the people -- I don' t know, that -- I guess I didn' t
Page 48
1 -- I assumed that our surveying party would contact the
2 different farmers on whose land they were going to traipse
3 across and drive stakes . When I finally got word of -- that they
4 weren' t doing that, I think you would agree it didn' t take very
5 long to have it stopped and to have people notified. And from
6 then on you were, I think, notified on everything we were doing
7 on that gas line . And we changed it -- we changed surveying
8 parties, incidentally. This is my engineer, and he knows we
9 changed surveying parties .
10 As far as the roads are concerned, we have agreements
11 that follow the happening of a certain number of homes being
12 built , we will assume certain responsibilities for the roads
13 outside of our project . And this will be determined -- we can' t
14 very well determine it now, although we've had two traffic
15 studies done out there to get an idea of what we' re going to
16 have to do when a certain number of families move in. And we
17 have already agreed with the County that we will do our portion
18 of that, so that it wasn' t -- it won' t be assumed entirely by
19 [inaudible] .
20 As far as taxes are concerned, I think this project
21 will generate a large amount of taxes . The homes are expensive,
22 and the land [inaudible] . These lots are expensive .
23 Consequently, there will be pretty good taxes payed generally
24 there.
25 As far as the fire, we have been visiting with the
Page 49
1 LaSalle Fire Department from the moment we started. And Gary
2 Sandau has been involved with us all the way along, and I 'm
3 satisfied that with his planning and our willingness to
4 cooperate, fire protection will be as good as it can be in any
5 rural area, and has been in the few times that we've had
6 occasion to use it .
7 There is an agreement, in our conditions of living out
8 there, that the dogs will be not allowed to run loose, and that
9 they' re aware of the fact that Weld County does have a leash
10 law, does have an animal control law. And we assume that they
11 would help control it there, the same as they would anyplace
12 else . I 'm not going to say that there aren' t going to be any
13 dogs running loose . I live in a neighborhood in Lakewood where
14 we constantly have dogs running loose, and we have a leash law
15 there too. But we will try. We have advised everybody -- it' s in
16 our -- in the closing paper and everything as to the things that
17 are required by them if they' re going to live in this
18 neighborhood. And that' s one of the things that' s required.
19 As far as grazing is concerned, we don' t -- all the
20 horses have to be fed within the paddock. Now that doesn' t mean
21 that if a horse is out there being ridden by somebody that they
22 aren' t going to eat some grass, because you and I both know that
23 they will . But they' re not allowed to graze them on the lot
24 itself . It' s not -- it is strictly [inaudible] .
25 [tape interrupted (voice inaudible) for 3 minutes . ]
Page 50
1 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. First, I have a quick question
2 before I ask for other Commission members' questions . Diane,
3 could you please tell me again which roads will be paved and how
4 much of them will be paved outside of the development, on an
5 improvement basis, between Beebe Draw and the County?
6 DIANE HOUGHTALING: I'm going to refer to Lee on a
7 portion of this, because this is before Diane . As of now, all
8 the roads that they -- the traffic study says they will use --
9 because obviously there are trip generators and trip origins and
10 destinations, and there' s very little need for people to go on
11 the gravel roads; they are going towards Denver, towards
12 Platteville, towards Greeley. Those roads are paved, so the only
13 thing the -- outside of the subdivision that needs to be done is
14 right-turn lanes, left-turn lanes, those kind of facilities . So
15 39 at 32 gets a right-turn lane. And I -- does 38 get a lane?
16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thirty -- 59 [inaudible] --
17 JIM FELL: At the moment it' s 39 and 32 that we' re
18 putting the turn in.
19 DIANE HOUGHTALING: And those are -- you know, based
20 on a certain number of houses, that lane goes in. But outside of
21 the development, most of those roads have already been paved.
22 Now, I ' ll turn it over to Lee, because there was some agreement
23 before I came aboard.
24 LEE MORRISON: There' s still existing agreements that
25 kick in -- I think the first time is at 100 houses -- that some
Page 51
1 of the roads that currently have been paved, there' s an
2 obligation for them to contribute toward. I think there' s a
3 likelihood we' ll relook at those contracts to see how it would
4 best fit the current circumstances . But there' s currently under
5 the obligation at 100 houses to contribute, according to a
6 formula, toward the paving of 39 and 4 -- and 32 .
7 CHAIR NICKLAS : Is that the First Filing or the Second
8 Filing?
9 LEE MORRISON: Well , it doesn' t matter.
10 CHAIR NICKLAS : It' s the whole thing? Okay.
11 LEE MORRISON: It' s the whole thing. See, it' s done by
12 the number of houses . Now, it would probably trigger it in the
13 First Filing because of the number of houses could be met in the
14 First Filing. But -- so those agreements have been there . They
15 may need to be reconsidered, but the obligation still exists,
16 and I think Mr. Fell' s concurred with that .
17 CHAIR NICKLAS : All right . Okay.
18 JIM FELL: Could I mention one thing?
19 CHAIR NICKLAS : Surely.
20 JIM FELL: There was a provision, I believe, at the
21 building of 60 houses or 70 houses, something of that nature,
22 that we would have to put in accel/decel lanes at the entrance
23 of our place . We looked at the situation, and after we had
24 driven it a few times ourselves, and others, we decided that had
25 to be put in now, and we've already put it in. It' s paved and
Page 52
1 it' s been marked, and I think we've satisfied everything anybody
2 would want on that .
3 We' re not going to get people killed or people injured
4 because we are not doing something that we' re supposed to do as
5 far as the roads are concerned. [inaudible]
6 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. John.
7 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: I ' ll ask Diane or Lee. These
8 residences - - they will make a contribution to the County Road
9 Impact Fee also, is that correct?
10 LEE MORRISON: Not in that area.
11 DIANE HOUGHTALING: They' re not in an impact fee area .
12 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: Okay. Thank you.
13 LEE MORRISON: To follow up, that' s -- they' re not
14 within an area . We certainly could create new areas, but they' re
15 not within that area. They do contribute toward the internal
16 roads by virtue of being in the District .
17 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Michael .
18 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Mr. Fell, is the only water
19 available on these sites the domestic water through the -- your
20 system out of the water tanks? Or is there irrigation water
21 available to them?
22 JIM FELL: We bought some shares of FRICO, but we
23 can' t use it because we' re on the wrong side of the ditch. We've
24 been negotiating with FRICO and we've been trying to see if
25 there' s some other water that we can trade for, if it' s
Page 53
1 possible . But right now -- But there is a restriction that the
2 only planting that can be done on a lot is 5 percent of the size
3 of the lot . In other words, they can' t put -- it ' s already
4 native grass, and we have been replacing, as we tore up and
5 built roads and had barrow pits and so forth, we've been
6 planting on it . And we' ll continue to plant anything that we do
7 with native grass . And it' s a blend of grass, and I don' t really
8 -- I can' t tell you the brand, but it' s one that' s been approved
9 for both appearance and sturdiness and so forth. We will be
10 replanting every place that' s bare out there that we create --
11 that we did anything to scrape the ground -- with native grass .
12 And the lots can only have 5 percent of the size of
13 the lot for plantings, for sod or regular grass . They can use
14 all the native grass that they want . Most of the people, I
15 think, will be using a great deal of native grass; it' s rather
16 difficult [inaudible] sod and irrigation and so forth.
17 You mentioned the water bill , and we put in sod in
18 front of our administration building. Our landscaper that did it
19 had us watering three times a day, and my water bill last month
20 was $321 . And we've now cut it back to once every third day,
21 instead of three times a day. So it doesn' t take long to learn
22 that you don' t use Central Weld water for intensive irrigation.
23 But we do have restrictions on the kind of plantings,
24 and there is a requirement that - - I have it in my briefcase,
25 but you might have seen it in some of the papers that we gave
Page 54
I you. There is a requirement as to the number of trees, bushes,
2 and so forth that have to be planted within six months of the
3 close of the house . So it will be a well-planted area at some
4 time in the future . It ' ll be -- as we go along, it ' ll be planted
5 very well . Does that answer it?
6 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Yes, it does . Thank you. Are
7 horses limited to being boarded at your stables? Or they -- can
8 they be kept on the properties?
9 JIM FELL: They -- every lot can have one horse per
10 acre paddocked and stabled, if they want its own stable, and we
11 will paddock it .
12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, it' s one horse per
13 [inaudible]
14 MONICA MIKA: Monica Mika. It' s actually 21 percent
15 of all the lots can be for horse -- equestrian use .
16 JIM FELL: That' s the number of lots that can be used.
17 But each lot is restricted as to the number of horses that they
18 can have, depending on the size of the lot . And I think it' s one
19 horse per acre that they can stable and paddock.
20 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Okay. Thank you.
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : But as I understand, Monica, not all
22 of the houses are going to be able to have horses - - only 21
23 percent of the houses . Correct?
24 MONICA MIKA: That - - Monica Mika . That' s correct,
25 according to the information the applicant has submitted.
Page 55
1 JIM FELL: To have a horse lot, you have to border --
2 we' ll have 19 miles of trails, and in order to have a horse you
3 have to border -- your lot has to border one of the open spaces
4 that are going to be converted into trails . The trails will be
5 maintained - - we have a gentleman who does mowing for us now,
6 and the trails will be maintained by that same firm. So they are
7 going to be maintained.
8 CHAIR NICKLAS : Are there any other questions? Cathy.
9 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : I actually have a number of
10 questions . First of all , with regard to -- I presume that you' re
11 going to have covenants that -- I mean, you have mentioned them
12 several times .
13 JIM FELL: [inaudible]
14 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : I didn' t see it in my packet . It
15 may have -- I mean, it' s a really big packet . If I do, that
16 might answer some of my questions . But I do have some others
17 that don' t have to do with the HOA.
18 I noticed in the title work that there were a number
19 of different oil companies that have wells and lines and such
20 out there . Approximately -- underneath the subdivision,
21 approximately how many high-pressure natural gas lines run?
22 JIM FELL: I really can' t answer your question off the
23 top of my head. We have maps that show it , and we have - - as to
24 -- the number of companies that are doing it now has been
25 reduced, because there have been a number of mergers . But I
Page 56
1 don' t have the exact number of them. There are pressure lines
2 and there are gathering lines and everything else . When you' re
3 going to build, you better well locate all the lines .
4 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Are we in the dozens or hundreds?
5 JIM FELL: Dozens .
6 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Okay. Okay. Second, I presume
7 that Central Weld is the actual owner of all of the water lines
8 that are actually coming in and the pump station, etc . One of
9 the questions had to do with what if there' s an emergency, you
10 know, that puts out the power. I am presuming that you have some
11 sort of trajectory back to them, that they have radio signals
12 back to the pump site, that they will send someone out? Is that
13 my understanding?
14 JIM FELL: That' s correct .
15 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : Okay. So in the event of a power
16 outage, then they dispatch somebody to take care of that and
17 then get it back up and running. Is there an emergency backup
18 generator?
19 J. L. WALTER: There is not an emergency backup
20 generator.
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : Could you please come to the mike if
22 you' re going to speak, and state your name and address for the
23 record please?
24 JIM FELL: This is J. L. Walter, who was up here
25 before .
Page 57
1 J. L. WALTER: J. L. Walter. Yes, Central Weld County
2 Water District has a telemetry system that is tied right
3 directly into the Central Weld office . It is also tied into
4 laptop computers that are carried by the people, maintenance
5 people . And there is a very short response time to any down
6 situations that we have.
7 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Okay. All right . That pretty well
8 answers that one . The other question I had, and this is more for
9 the Planning staff, is the -- you know, a couple people
10 mentioned emergency services . I didn' t see a response in here
11 from the Sheriff' s Office . Do they have any particular comments?
12 MONICA MIKA: Monica Mika, Department of Planning
13 Services . Actually the Sheriff' s Department responded twice in
14 your packet . The first time they responded, they raised issues
15 about Haz-Mat-related issues with the swimming pool . And then
16 the second time they responded, they had a list of questions and
17 so forth. We sent them the responses to those questions from the
18 applicant, and heard no further response .
19 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : Okay. The -- I ' m sorry. I just
20 had one final comment . Somebody mentioned early on, in one of
21 the initial citizen comments, that there is an existing gun club
22 out there . Based on that, I would like to go ahead and add in as
23 one of the conditions the Right to Hunt, as well as the Right to
24 Farm, into the covenants .
25 JIM FELL: I didn' t hear your comment .
Page 58
1 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Apparently, one of the citizens
2 mentioned that there was an existing gun club that is adjacent
3 to this property. And there is a -- the Division of Wildlife has
4 language to put into the covenant, stating that people are going
5 to use firearms out there .
6 JIM FELL: The only -- the only -- that' s the only
7 place you can use firearms .
8 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Precisely. But I would like --
9 what I would like to do is I would like to add something into
10 the covenants going to the homeowners, stating, very much like
11 the Right to Farm, that there are people out there, you know,
12 adjacent that are --
13 JIM FELL: Oh, [inaudible] gun club?
14 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Precisely.
15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It' s only been going on, I
16 think, for 50 years .
17 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Yeah, but we have new people
18 coming in --
19 JIM FELL: No, I'm all in favor of it . I don' t have
20 any disagreement [inaudible] .
21 COMMISSIONER CLAMP : Okay. Have you got language,
22 Monica?
23 MONICA MIKA: Yes, I can.
24 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. We' ll get to that in just a
25 second. Is there any other questions? Stephen.
Page 59
1 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Lee, do we have control , in
2 terms of distance, to respect these high-pressure gas lines, for
3 building near them? How do we control that?
4 LEE MORRISON: Well , primary control is the way the
5 easements have been created, to provide for the setbacks . And we
6 work off the setbacks from the easement .
7 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Okay. So that' s been considered?
8 LEE MORRISON: Well , that ' s one of the reasons why the
9 Plat' s got to locate all of those, so that construction can work
10 around them. But essentially it' s -- I don' t think we have a
11 regulation that deals with the lines per se . But we do get on
12 the Plat those easements, so the building permits can' t be
13 issued within that area that' s been previously reserved for the
14 protection of the gas line and those in the area.
15 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: And do we control the houses not
16 to be built on those gas lines?
17 LEE MORRISON: Right . We can' t -- the goal is to get
18 the Plat to reflect the easement, so if the easement' s on the
19 Plat, we can enforce the Plat . An easement that' s not located,
20 not been shown on the Plat we' re not aware of won' t -- you know,
21 we won' t pick that up in the building permit process . So that ' s
22 why -- that' s one of the functions the Plat serves, is to ensure
23 that those easements are there, and then are reflected in
24 whether a building permit issues for a particular site or not .
25 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Okay.
Page 60
1 CHAIR NICKLAS : Are there any other questions? Bryant .
2 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: Monica, I was going to ask this
3 a minute ago, and now I'm not sure I need to. But with regard to
4 the Right to Farm, Mr. Fell indicated that that' s a part of his
5 closing documents . And I guess my question is two-part . One is
6 that -- the Weld County Right to Farm language in his closing
7 documents? And two, I didn' t see it as a part of the development
8 standards, and could it be?
9 MONICA MIKA: Monica Mika. I have not seen his closing
10 document, so I 'm assuming that it' s the Right to Farm covenant .
11 I don' t think that they' ll -- that Weld County endorses, so I'm
12 not sure that there' ll be any problems with that . And could it
13 be a condition? You already have a condition, prior to recording
14 the Plat, that that needs to be reflected on the Plat . So I know
15 in the past you have asked for that to be requested on the Plat
16 and all closing documents .
17 CHAIR NICKLAS : I know here, a couple of months ago,
18 we did some revision on the Right to Farm covenant, and we' re
19 still calling it "covenant . " Have we changed the language of
20 that? Have the Commissioners seen that and changed that, or --
21 MONICA MIKA: It' s Weld County' s Right to Farm.
22 CHAIR NICKLAS : "Right to Farm" is how we've got it
23 now?
24 MONICA MIKA: Right . It has been modified. And I
25 believe that the third reading just happened like two weeks ago.
Page 61
1 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. So we will start seeing the
2 change in language of that title coming soon?
3 MONICA MIKA: Yes . We should see that change in that
4 language . Thank you.
5 CHAIR NICKLAS : John.
6 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: I' d like to ask Mr. Fell --
7 there' s been a lot of concern about the individual septic
8 systems . Was any consideration or study made as far as having a
9 central treatment plant, if that was possible?
10 JIM FELL: The interesting thing is that when we first
11 came in years ago for the PUD, the Health Department requested
12 that we use individual septic systems because many sewer
13 treatment systems were failing. And then they were not -- I
14 don' t have any idea whether they actually proved a lot of that,
15 but we had to [inaudible] the PUD for added [inaudible]
16 continue . I am not sure that it wouldn' t be cheaper to have a
17 system than to have everybody buying an individual septic system
18 under the way that we' re doing it now. We haven' t given thought
19 to it because, as I say, the PUD provided that . So we've just
20 gone ahead.
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : John.
22 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: Yeah. Let me understand. The
23 property owner is permitted to keep a horse on his property, to
24 stable it . And can the horse free-roam on his lot? I think what
25 I 'm getting at is they eat down the -- I live in what I call a
Page 62
1 -- well, it' s 1- to 8-acre lots, and on the smaller lots, if
2 they have a horse, there' s no vegetation whatsoever. I call it
3 a horse ghetto that they live in.
4 JIM FELL: We don' t -- we provide that you don' t graze
5 the horse on your lot . You feed the horse when it' s [inaudible]
6 and in the paddock. And the alternative, of course, would be to
7 stable the horse . And they don' t graze in the open space;
8 they' re not allowed to go into the open space and eat there .
9 This restriction is part of the covenant and is part of the --
10 you know.
11 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: Yeah.
12 JIM FELL: Can we enforce it? I don' t know that we' re
13 going to have a policeman out there watching all the time, but
14 we will try to enforce it, and we will try to help neighbors
15 help us enforce it . We hope the homeowners will help us enforce
16 it, because it' s not to anybody' s advantage to let those horses
17 go out --
18 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: I assume, to start off with, the
19 Homeowners Association will be run by yourself, and then it' ll
20 be taken over by the Homeowners themselves, somewheres down the
21 line when there' s enough of them out there .
22 JIM FELL: At the present time, the Homeowners
23 Association is made up of our people . The way we have set up our
24 particular District, our particular development, is that we made
25 the Metropolitan District have stronger enforcement
Page 63
1 possibilities than a Homeowners Association. On our Homeowners
2 Association it' s going to be -- we've stripped it pretty much to
3 recreation facilities and that type of thing, and we' re going to
4 rely on the Metropolitan District with its ability to tax rather
5 than to fine, to support the whole [inaudible] .
6 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: As far as several of the
7 surrounding property owners said they weren' t -- or one, at
8 least, said he wasn' t notified. Can you speak to that at all ,
9 Monica?
10 MONICA MIKA: Yes, I can. Monica Mika, Department of
11 Planning Services . And I had the opportunity to speak to Mrs .
12 Cornelius, and she was not notified. I 'm not quite sure . We sent
13 out multiple Surrounding Property Owner Notifications, and so I
14 can tell you that the May 25 , 2000, Surrounding Property Owner
15 Notification, as well as the most current one, from August 16,
16 2000 , did include, to the best of our understanding, all of the
17 surrounding property owners . There was a time lag in there where
18 it appears that not everybody was included, based on the
19 Assessor' s records . So we have subsequently -- I know the last
20 two were okay. But prior to that -- And the other question, what
21 happened prior to get the Change of Zone?
22 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: It' s academic, at this point .
23 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Are there any other questions?
24 I 'm sorry. The public portion is closed.
25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: [inaudible] question.
Page 64
1 CHAIR NICKLAS : I don' t think so. Thank you. Is there
2 any discussion among the Commission members? Bryant?
3 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: I guess just one quick comment,
4 just maybe for benefit of some of the public, that got up and
5 testified is that, from everything I 've read in my packet, and
6 from some of the testimony we've heard today, it appears to me
7 that the requirements of both the School District and Fire
8 District have pretty well been met . Otherwise, I think the
9 School District and/or the Fire District would be here saying
10 something about it .
11 CHAIR NICKLAS : I agree, because those are two fairly
12 proactive districts, and I think they' d be here with some
13 comments, or there' d be more negative comments in our packets .
14 Is there any other discussion? Jack? You want to?
15 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : I was thinking about --
- 16 CHAIR NICKLAS : You' re thinking?
17 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Well, yeah, I -- the School
18 District - - that' s a similar problem in both -- she mentioned
19 RE-3J, Hudson School District . The farmers end up paying much of
20 the school taxes, and that' s a rub in the rural areas . The
21 residential will pay their share to the School Districts, but it
22 isn' t enough to build the capital or the assets to teach the
23 kids . In RE-1, however, they have, I think - - and I don' t want
24 to quote the amount of percentage of oil and gas, but it' s much
25 higher than most school districts .
Page 65
1 The other thing is, you know, my family has a
2 Centennial ranch too. And I think if we took the Osters'
3 example, that there' d be a hell of a lot less people around
4 here, but I 'm not sure that we can control the people . So that' s
5 my comment .
6 CHAIR NICKLAS : Cathy.
7 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: I had a chance to look through
8 the covenants for the subdivision, because several of the
9 questions that were brought up had to do with the actual
10 covenants . Basically, what it shows in here as to maintenance of
11 the lots is that it is the duty of the lot owner to keep it
12 neat, attractive, and sightly. In the event that the homeowner
13 does not, then it becomes the obligation of the Homeowners
14 Association to go in, you know, do whatever maintenance needs to
15 be done, so that you don' t have blowing sands and various other
16 things . And then they bill the property owner. I think that' s
17 been one of the major concerns with the public .
18 I kind of look at this project that -- yeah, it is
19 very large, and it' s a very high density in an otherwise very
20 agricultural region. And one of the things that need to be
21 considered is that it is very likely going to be just a bedroom
22 community for wherever the other areas are .
23 One of the things that I think probably needs to be
24 addressed is that the majority of the traffic flow is going to
25 be early in the morning and late at night . Has Weld County
Page 66
1 looked at putting in traffic signals or doing other things that
2 are just more -- a little bit more aggressive for those times of
3 day?
4 DIANE HOUGHTALING: Weld County -- Diane Houghtaling,
5 Weld County Public Works . Weld County presently has designed --
6 preliminarily designed a Columbine Parkway, which will realign
7 32 to line up with State Highway 66 . There is a signal planned
8 at State Highway 66 . That intersection will then take the
9 traffic from this development over to I-25 or up and down 85,
10 which is, you know, the best we can do. But it' s by far better
11 than on many subdivisions go in. We will not be improving the
12 shoulders up and down 39, but we don' t anticipate that many cars
13 that will go up and down 39, unless they' re going straight north
14 to Greeley.
15 STEPHEN MOKRAY: What' s the time frame for that?
16 DIANE HOUGHTALING: The signal is scheduled for 2001,
17 and Columbine Parkway is --
18 DON CARROLL: 2002 .
19 DIANE HOUGHTALING: 2002?
20 [1-second interruption in tape . ]
21 CHAIR NICKLAS : Are there any more comments? I guess,
22 if I 'm going to be consistent in how I 've opposed these
23 developments in the past, I -- I 'm not opposed to having a
24 development out in a rural area, but not of this density and not
25 all on septic tanks . And I understand that it was -- it was
Page 67
1 approved in ' 85 when we had much different standards . But a
2 septic tank' s a septic tank, whether it was built in ' 85 or
3 whether it' s built in 2000 . And this many in one spot just
4 doesn' t go right .
5 I guess -- Mr. Fell , could you come to the podium for
6 just a second? Actually, I guess we need to change -- we had
7 language change on one development?
8 MONICA MIKA: Monica Mika. Actually there are a couple
9 of changes that staff would like to recommend. And on page 3 ,
10 letter F, to include the words "Right to Hunt . " On G, to include
11 "the Plat shall be amended to show all drainage easements to
12 delineate a 25-foot utility easement" -- just add the words "and
13 drainage easement . " On J -- what? Okay. So, wait, we' re -- this
14 is a moving target one . "The Plat shall be modified to show all
15 drainage and oil and gas easements and utility easements . " So
16 add that language.
17 On page 4 , to add the following statements, under O:
18 "The applicant shall prepare an updated fugitive dust control
19 plan, submit an air pollution emission notice, apply and receive
20 a permit if necessary from the Colorado Department of Public
21 Health and Environment, and forward a copy of the approved plan
22 to the Weld County Department of Public Health and Environment . "
23 And the final change is a deletion of the word "and" on page 4 ,
24 in Section 2-B. It should say, "The environmental buffer zones,
25 as delineated on a Plat, shall not" -- you don' t need the word
Page 68
1 "and. "
2 CHAIR NICKLAS : Is that all?
3 MONICA MIKA: I believe that' ll be enough.
4 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Do I have a motion? Bryant?
5 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: I would move we make the four
6 changes to the development standards as Monica has just read
7 into the record.
8 CHAIR NICKLAS : (Yeah, I know. And I will after.
9 Gotcha. ) Is there a second to that? Stephen seconds it . Will you
10 poll the Commissioners please?
11 TRISHA SWANSON: Michael Miller?
12 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Yes .
13 TRISHA SWANSON: Jack Epple?
14 COMMISSIONER EPPLE : Yes .
15 TRISHA SWANSON: John Folsom?
16 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: Yes .
17 TRISHA SWANSON: Cathy Clamp?
18 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Yes .
19 TRISHA SWANSON: Stephen Mokray?
20 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Yes .
21 TRISHA SWANSON: Bryant Gimlin?
22 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: Yes .
23 TRISHA SWANSON: Cristie Nicklas?
24 CHAIR NICKLAS : Yes . Okay. Mr. Fell, are you in
25 agreement with the development standards and the conditions of
Page 69
1 approval as amended?
2 JIM FELL: Was there something that I didn' t know
3 about before? [inaudible]
4 MONICA MIKA: Yes, on page -- it' s -- well , you
5 actually knew about it before . The fugitive dust control plan,
6 because it is a condition of approval , but the Health Department
7 just asked to see that prior to recording the Plat .
8 CHAIR NICKLAS : So it' s the same thing that the Health
9 Department was asking for before, just in a different time
10 frame?
11 MONICA MIKA: That' s correct .
12 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. All right .
13 MONICA MIKA: And we added the Right to Hunt --
14 CHAIR NICKLAS : Right to Hunt language.
15 MONICA MIKA: And just a further clarification of
16 utility easements to include drainage easements as well as oil
17 and gas .
18 JIM FELL: Which is what we agreed to.
19 CHAIR NICKLAS : But -- okay. So you -- are you in
20 agreement, even with the changes?
21 JIM FELL: Yes, I am in agreement .
22 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Thank you. I will entertain
23 discussion or a motion. Bryant .
24 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: I do have kind of a question,
25 probably for Lee . And to make it real short, is the septic
Page 70
1 system issue under review in this process? I mean, understanding
2 this was previously approved as is, and stuff, I mean -- is that
3 something that we really can take issue with here today?
4 LEE MORRISON: I -- I don' t think -- to leave the
5 septics as part of this system, or as the system, is consistent
6 with the zone change . So I think it would be difficult to impose
7 a different type of sewage disposal system on the applicant at
8 this stage . It certainly could be discussed. I mean, Mr. Fell
9 indicated he chose that route, given the input he had before . I
10 think it would be difficult, though, to throw that as a
11 condition into this, when it' s not what was part of the zone
12 change . It certainly could be a consideration in the yes or no,
13 but I don' t think to change a condition to say you've got to do
14 a sewage disposal treatment plant . . .
15 Now one thing that' s slightly different is this
16 Metropolitan District is -- has got broader powers than it
17 originally was anticipated to have . But nonetheless, I -- you
18 know, the District could be a mechanism for doing that, but that
19 wasn' t part of the zone change discussion.
20 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: Yeah, flipping that around a
21 little bit, you' re right . Mr. Fell indicated that, as I gather
22 from his comments, is he really doesn' t have leeway to look at
23 an individ -- a sewage disposal treatment plant, because of the
24 original Change of Zone; that he is tied to having to deal with
25 septic tanks now. Is that true?
Page 71
1 LEE MORRISON: Well , you know, if there was agreement
2 with the applicant, you and the Board and the Health Department,
3 both state and local , that that was the better way to go, I
4 don' t think that would be precluded. But that' s different than
5 saying you can impose it on the applicant at this stage . So if
6 the applicant really thinks it' s a better way to go, I think it
7 could be revisited. But it' d take all of those parties to concur
8 in that for it to be accomplished.
9 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: I just think he ought to have
10 the leeway to be able to look at that as an option, because it
11 might be, one, a money-saver, and two, a better system that way.
12 CHAIR NICKLAS : Right . Jack.
13 COMMISSIONER EPPLE: I agree . What -- with that line
14 of thought, how can Weld County go back and revisit the road
15 maintenance agreement from the previous --
- 16 LEE MORRISON: Well, but -- I mean, there' s a
17 difference between -- they've committed, they've agreed to
18 contribute to the roads . The fact is, when they agreed, the
19 roads were gravel . They' re not gravel , so -- I mean, this,
20 again, it would be an agreement, not something to be imposed.
21 We've got an obligation for them to contribute, but we might
22 change what they contribute toward.
23 I don' t think that' s the same as saying, "Here' s a new
24 standard you've got to comply with. " And I don' t think Bryant' s
25 suggesting that . I think he' s just suggesting that the option be
Page 72
1 out there . And frankly, I don' t know if it is, because the
2 state' s not necessarily changed their view of package treatment
3 plants, you know, in the last 15 years . But I don' t read you as
4 saying no, we need to change that . I think you' re suggesting it
5 ought to be considered as an option.
6 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: Yeah, I 'm just trying to
7 advocate that the develop -- Mr. Fell have the option of looking
8 at something like that, without being locked into something
9 that' s 15 years old.
10 CHAIR NICKLAS : Is there any more comments? Is there
11 a motion?
12 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Yeah, there is one more comment .
13 CHAIR NICKLAS : One more comment . Sorry.
14 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Sorry. I guess the comment that
15 I have is that I currently live in a subdivision in southern
16 Weld County, not too terribly far from yours, that has 636 lots
17 that are all septic . We have constant problems with groundwater,
18 septics going over. You know, we have the exact same structure .
19 If there is another way to look at containing sewage for, you
20 know, approximately the same number of homes, I would be very
21 interested in hearing it .
22 CHAIR NICKLAS : Pam?
23 PAM SMITH : Pam Smith, Health Department . What we
24 could -- what I would like to suggest is maybe some language for
25 an operation and maintenance plan for the septic systems, that
Page 73
1 would cover all of the septic systems in the subdivision, the
2 536 lots --
3 CHAIR NICKLAS : The 724 that' ll be total buildout?
4 PAM SMITH: Okay. 724?
5 CHAIR NICKLAS : Is it possible to put language like
6 that in there?
7 LEE MORRISON: For this Filing.
8 CHAIR NICKLAS : For the 536?
9 LEE MORRISON: Right . And you could suggest that --
10 CHAIR NICKLAS : -- it be incorporated --
11 LEE MORRISON: -- that it be incorporated. You know,
12 but in -- the Second Filing' s the only thing that' s in front of
13 you.
14 CHAIR NICKLAS : Right . Mr. Fell, do you understand
15 what they' re proposing?
16 JIM FELL: I understand it, and I thought I agreed
17 with -- what' s Frank' s last name again?
18 CHAIR NICKLAS : Hempen.
19 DIANE HOUGHTALING: That would be for the drainage .
20 CHAIR NICKLAS : That' s for the drainage though. This
21 --
22 JIM FELL: No, I think I agreed with him regarding
23 inspecting the septic tanks on a regular basis by the
24 Metropolitan District .
25 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. If you have agreed to that, we
Page 74
1 would like to put language, and have language in our development
2 standards and also language in your covenants and your
3 Homeowners Association, that specify that these septic tanks
4 will be maintained by the Metropolitan District and inspected by
5 them on a regular basis, say, once a year and pumped once every
6 4 years --
7 JIM FELL: [inaudible] the inspection was once a year
8 and I think the --
9 CHAIR NICKLAS : -- pumping --
10 JIM FELL: -- maintenance was like 3 or 4 years .
11 CHAIR NICKLAS : Something like that .
12 JIM FELL: Didn' t we agree to that? Were you
13 [inaudible]
14 CHAIR NICKLAS : Monica.
15 MONICA MIKA: Monica Mika, Department of Planning
16 Services . The -- apparently the [inaudible] the Metropolitan
17 District plan does include long-term maintenance --
18 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay.
19 MONICA MIKA: -- and annual maintenance for the
20 existing septic systems . So it -- maybe we just should have the
21 Health Department review that provision in the Metropolitan
22 District to make sure it' s adequate, and if not, then --
23 CHAIR NICKLAS : Before the Commissioners' hearing,
24 there' ll be --
25 MONICA MIKA: Actually, before -- the Commissioners'
Page 75
1 hearing for this case is scheduled next Wednesday, so it may be
2 appropriate to say prior to recording the Plat, in one could put
3 it on page 4 , under Section P : "Long-term operational and
4 maintenance plans for all septic systems within the subdivision
5 shall be submitted to the Weld County Public Health and
6 Environment Department for acceptance and approval . "
7 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. And you think that those -- that
8 language is already in the Homeowners Association, or the
9 Metropolitan District' s --
10 MONICA MIKA: It was addressed in the Metropolitan
11 District . I 'm not sure it was adequately addressed to meet Pam' s
12 needs, but we can at least start her there .
13 CHAIR NICKLAS : Start there? Is that adequate, Lee?
14 LEE MORRISON: Yes .
15 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. Do you understand, Mr. Fell, what
16 we' re trying to get at?
17 JIM FELL: Yes, as I say, I was under the impression
18 that --
19 CHAIR NICKLAS : -- that it was already there?
20 JIM FELL: [inaudible] we had agreed with Frank to do
21 this already.
22 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay.
23 JIM FELL: We apparently just didn' t get around to
24 getting it put on the Plat .
25 CHAIR NICKLAS : Okay. If everyone' s in agreement, I
Page 76
1 will entertain a motion to accept Monica' s wording.
2 JIM FELL : Now it' s not the Homeowners Association.
3 CHAIR NICKLAS : No, it' s the Metropolitan District . I
4 -- I'm understanding the difference .
5 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: I would make that motion.
6 CHAIR NICKLAS : Stephen has made the motion to
7 incorporate Monica' s language for the maintenance of the septic
8 systems, prior to recording the Plat .
9 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Second.
10 CHAIR NICKLAS : Cathy Clamp has seconded it . Trish,
11 would you poll the Commissioners?
12 TRISHA SWANSON: Michael Miller?
13 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Yes .
14 TRISHA SWANSON: Jack Epple?
15 COMMISSIONER EPPLE: Yes .
16 TRISHA SWANSON: John Folsom?
17 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: Yes .
18 TRISHA SWANSON: Cathy Clamp?
19 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: Yes .
20 TRISHA SWANSON: Stephen Mokray?
21 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Yes .
22 TRISHA SWANSON: Bryant Gimlin?
23 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: Yes .
24 TRISHA SWANSON: Cristie Nicklas?
25 CHAIR NICKLAS : Yes . Motion passes . Bryant .
Page 77
1 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: Madam Chair, I ' d make a motion
2 that we forward Case #S-525, along with the amended development
3 standards and conditions of approval, along to the Board of Weld
4 -- of County Commissioners, with our recommendation for
5 approval .
6 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Second.
7 CHAIR NICKLAS : Bryant has made the motion and Stephen
8 has seconded the motion. Trish, would you poll the Commissioners
9 please?
10 TRISHA SWANSON: Michael Miller?
11 COMMISSIONER MILLER: No, with comment . I believe that
12 this is too dense of a development for that location. I've
13 worked extensively in that area, and I know the soils well . I
14 know how the sand reacts . I know you' re not going to grow
15 anything out there . The lack of any irrigation water being
16 available, I find a terrible deficiency. And the fact that we' re
17 going to have 700 septic systems out there really doesn' t fit .
18 I believe if we were to approve that, with all those septic
19 systems, we would -- and that density -- we would be
20 compromising the health and safety of the surrounding property
21 owners . So I have to vote no.
22 TRISHA SWANSON: Jack Epple?
23 COMMISSIONER EPPLE: I'm going to vote no too, just
24 for the same comments as Mike just made . In addition, I think
25 that -- I lived in the Roggen area all my life, blow sand. It' s
Page 78
1 just a tough environment to make things grow, and dry -- it' s
2 dry. You can make things happen out there if you get the right
3 moisture and the right time of year. But septic systems -- I
4 think we need to deal with them in a more rigid manner.
5 TRISHA SWANSON: John Folsom?
6 COMMISSIONER FOLSOM: No, for the reasons given.
7 TRISHA SWANSON: Cathy Clamp?
8 COMMISSIONER CLAMP: No.
9 TRISHA SWANSON: Stephen Mokray?
10 COMMISSIONER MOKRAY: Yes .
11 TRISHA SWANSON: Bryant Gimlin?
12 COMMISSIONER GIMLIN: Yes .
13 TRISHA SWANSON: Cristie Nicklas?
14 CHAIR NICKLAS : No. And I will second the comments
15 that the previous Commission members have made . It' s too many
16 houses not close to urban development and urban services . And I
17 have a real concern about their -- Central Weld being able to
18 provide enough water, at the rate that it needs to be out there .
19 And I do know that people who move from town out to the country
20 tend to want to water their bluegrass, and those types of water
21 systems aren' t adequate to do a lot of outside irrigating.
22 The motion is --
23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Defeated.
24 CHAIR NICKLAS : -- defeated, to send to the County
25 Commissioners for recommendation for denial . Or did we -- just
Page 79
1 the motion for approval was defeated? That' s it . 5 to 2 , is that
2 correct?
3 TRISHA SWANSON: Yes .
4 CHAIR NICKLAS : Thank you, Monica.
5 BRYANT GIMLIN: Break time?
6 CHAIR NICKLAS : Yes, short break time . Short, because
7 --
8 (End of proceedings . )
9
10
11
Page 80
CERTIFICATE
I, Loma J. Huh, do certify that the above and
foregoing is a true and accurate transcription to the best of
my ability from the audiotape provided.
I further certify that I am not agent, attorney, or
counsel for any of the parties hereto, nor am I interested in
the outcome thereof.
Dated this 20th day of November, 2000 .
AU-
Loma J. HuhU
Transcriptionist
As witnessed this 20th day of November, 2000 :
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