HomeMy WebLinkAbout20003328.tiff 128
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY
PUBLIC HEARING RE : DYELAND DAIRY LLC
915 10th Street
Greeley , Colorado
December 12 , 2000
( 10 : 38 a . m . - 11 : 50 a . m . )
VOLUME II
^
Reported by Wilson George Court Reporters
Mary J . George , RMR , CRR
Wilson George Court Reporters, Inc.
One Old Town Square, Suite 200 B, Ft. Collins, CO 80524 (970) 224-3000
303 E. 17th Avenue, Suite 700, Denver, CO 80203 (303) 861-5000
Greeley, CO (970) 353-0300 (800) 845-3001
2000-3328
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1 INDEX
2 PAGE
3 PUBLIC COMMENTS ( Continued ) 131
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._ 1 WHEREUPON , the following proceedings were
2 had :
^ 3 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . Okay .
4 Good morning . Reconvening the hearing . It ' s
5 Tuesday , December 12th . I ' ll reconvene the hearing
6 for special use permit No . 1289 . We were in the
7 middle of the public hearing , public testimony .
8 First of all , just a few ground rules that
9 I need to lay . We do have to be out of here
10 precisely at quarter till 12 : 00 . We have a
11 commissioner who has a speaking commitment at noon .
12 If we aren ' t finished at quarter to 12 : 00 , we will
13 have to continue the hearing until tomorrow because
14 at 1 : 00 the courts come in and use this hearing room
15 and we won ' t have the availability of the hearing
16 room .
17 So in the essence of time , I ' m going to ask
18 you all , again , to not repeat anything that we ' ve
19 already heard in the public hearing . Do not
20 duplicate that .
21 Additionally , if you ' ve sent us in a letter
22 and it ' s part of the record , I would appreciate it if
-- 23 you would just summarize your points instead of going
24 through the whole letter again , because we do have
25 that in front of us and we all pretty much have read
131
1 through most of the letters , as far as I know .
2 Also , today the -- it ' s the opportunity for
3 people who have not had the opportunity to speak in
4 the public hearing to -- for today . So if you spoke
5 last week , I ' m going to -- ask or tell you basically
6 that you cannot speak again today . This is for
7 people who haven ' t had the opportunity to testify in
8 the public hearing .
9 Also , just because of the time limits and
10 time constraints that we ' re under , if you do start
11 testifying to others and not the Board of County
12 Commissioners , I probably will stop you . If your
13 testimony is not relevant to the case in point , I
14 probably will stop you . And if you start to repeat
15 testimony we ' ve already heard , I probably will stop
16 you then , again .
17 So , with that , again , so if there ' s anyone
18 who would like to come forward and testify , USR 1289 ,
19 please do so . You will need to come up to the
20 microphone at this point and if you would please
21 state your name and address for the record and make
22 your comments to the board .
23 MR . KEN KERCHENFAUT : My name is Ken
24 Kerchenfaut . I live at 41490 Weld County Road 13 .
25 Fort Collins , 80524 . I live directly across from
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.. 1 present Dyecrest Dairy .
2 I ' ve been there 3-1 / 2 years , owned the
3 property for about 8 . And I ' d like to address the
4 fact that the dairy has been a good neighbor . The
5 Dyes have run a well-managed , clean dairy , so we ' re
.. 6 not impacted by some of the things that I heard here
7 a few days ago .
8 I have no complaints against the dairy and ,
9 like I said , I do live right across the street . I ' d
10 like to say that I think the dairy is a -- is an
.. 11 important part of that community . I know that
12 Dyecrest allows farmers in the area to use their
13 scale . So it ' s kind of a hub for people coming --
14 farmers to come and weigh their hay , or whatever .
15 And this is free of charge regardless of
16 whether you ' re doing business with the dairy or not .
17 I think that ' s a pretty neighborly thing to do .
18 And as far as the traffic problem , I know
19 there ' s some concerns about the trucks coming in and
20 out . That has not been a problem for us . The trucks
21 go slow , they don ' t -- you know , they don ' t pose a
22 problem .
23 On the other hand , cars that are heading
24 north going to some of the new residential areas out
25 north of us , many of them exceed the speed limit and
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1 that does concern me . So the road gets cut and gets
2 messed up . I think it ' s due to the excessive speed
3 from some of the traffic , and it ' s not necessarily
4 the dairy traffic .
5 So those are the things that -- that I can
6 attest to . So I ' m -- I ' m for the proposal , whether
7 the -- on the Dye Dairy . I don ' t think it will
8 impact the people as much as they think it might .
9 Thank you .
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
11 Question?
12 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : I ' ve got a quick
13 question . You said across . Are you directly --
14 MR . KEN KERCHENFAUT : Directly across the
15 street , east of the dairy . I ' m on the Weld County
16 side of the County Road 13 , which is the --
17 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : So close to the main
18 part of the dairy , are you?
19 MR . KEN KERCHENFAUT : Oh , we ' re --' our home
20 is probably about 1 , 000 feet off the -- the access
21 road , and then the dairy is directly across from the
22 road . So I don ' t know , you could say --
23 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : I think I know where
24 you are . Thank you .
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay , question?
134
.. 1 COMMISSIONER VAAD : You ' re referring to the
2 current dairy , not the proposed 4 , 000 --
3 MR . KEN KERCHENFAUT : I can only attest to
4 the -- to the dairy that I live across the street
5 from . That ' s -- the Dyecrest Dairy .
._ 6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Current dairy .
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Just one question .
8 How far -- how close -- how far is the dairy that you
9 live across? How far is that dairy from the proposed
10 dairy?
^. 11 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mile .
12 MR . KEN KERCHENFAUT : About a mile , just
13 down the east .
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE : I ' ve heard a lot about
15 a half a mile , a mile as the crow flies .
16 MR . KEN KERCHENFAUT : I ' d say it ' s exactly
17 a mile , because we ' re on Road 13 and the dairy ' s
18 going to be on Road 15 , or part .
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Thank you .
20 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
21 MR . KEN KERCHENFAUT : Thank you .
22 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . Next .
23 MR . JIM CLARY : My name is Jim Clary . I
24 live at Weld County Road 86 , 6776 Weld County
25 Road 86 , which is right here . My ground extends over
pea
135
1 and across the street , it will be up in this area
2 here .
3 For you that haven ' t been able to read the
4 paper this morning , didn ' t have the opportunity , this
5 is out of the Greeley Tribune dated Tuesday , December
.. 6 the 12th . And it ' s an opinion of the Tribune and I ' d
7 like to read it :
8 East and north Weld County best spots for
9 agricultural operations .
10 Rural-urban conflicts almost daily --
11 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : I ' m sorry .
12 Mr . Clary , I ' m going to ask you what the relevance is
^' 13 to the case today?
14 MR . JIM CLARY : Well , it mentions Dyeland
15 Dairy in here .
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . But it is
17 relevant to what we ' re hearing today and the criteria
18 that the board has to --
19 MR . JIM CLARY : The whole subject is about
20 dairy . It ' s about the Podtburg Dairy and the Dyeland
21 Dairy .
22 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : But is it any
23 relation to the impacts or the --
24 MR . JIM CLARY : Yes .
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : -- of this diary in
136
,. 1 specific?
2 MR . JIM CLARY : Yes .
3 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay .
4 MR . JIM CLARY : How we resolve these
5 problems posed by growth will shape our future .
6 Wisely , voters rejected the one-size-fits-all
7 approach of Amendment 24 on the November ballot .
8 A good illustration of why local planners
9 need flexibility is the proposed expansion of Dyeland
10 Dairy near Severance . At first glance , the request
11 seems similar to the Podtburg Dairy near Platteville .
12 In both cases , neighbors are lined up
- 13 against the expansion , fearing more cows would worsen
14 odor problems and lessen property values .
15 In both cases , the neighbors need to be
_ 16 reminded they moved into agricultural areas . Odors ,
17 flies and dust go with the territory .
18 A key difference , however , is the location
19 of the Dyeland expansion . The owner proposes
20 creating two operations , separated by almost two
21 miles .
22 In between these two cites are homes . The
23 residents who live there accept that they are
24 neighbors to a 2 , 000-head dairy . They object
25 strongly , however , to being sandwiched by another
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1 4 , 000-head dairy .
2 They say a dairy of such size is simply
3 incompatible with the many homes that dot the
4 landscape near the Larimer County border .
5 The owner has the right under county
6 regulations to build 1100-head dairy on his property .
7 He wants , though , to increase the size of his
8 operation in order to compete with today ' s economic
9 realities .
10 That ' s certainly understandable .
_. 11 Unfortunately , the location he ' s chosen is no longer
12 the best one . Growth has changed the landscape
13 between Greeley and Fort Collins .
14 Weld County commissioners increasingly are
15 faced with sorting out questions of compatibility .
16 Preserving agricultural operations is a noble and
17 worthy goal .
18 It also is an economic necessity . Weld
19 ranks No . 1 in the state in dairy production. Our 89
20 dairies are expected to produce 1 . 2 billion pounds of
21 milk this year .
22 Dairies are big business in Weld . The
23 projected value of milk made by -- made in
24 Weld County in 2000 is $ 130 . 7 million .
^
25 County commissioners are rightfully
138
1 reluctant to take any action that would hurt this
2 important industry . That ' s why the Podtburg Dairy
3 should be allowed to expand from 1 , 000 to 2 , 000 head
4 at its location .
.. 5 But the Dyeland Dairy stands to have up to
6 6 , 000 head on two nearby parcels of land .
7 Commissioners need to carefully -- to consider
8 carefully the difference .
9 At the same time , they should think about
10 how they can encourage agricultural operations to
.. 11 move from west Weld , where most of the population
12 growth is occurring , to northern and eastern parts of
13 the county . The Monforts took this approach and went
14 in these directions almost 30 years ago when they
15 moved their feedlots out of Greeley .
16 If the commissioners don ' t act to keep
17 these operations in Weld , it ' s likely they will lose
.- 18 it forever .
19 Also , we have a -- excuse me , we have a
20 building site on our ground , which is right here --
21 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Could you give me
22 the address for the record .
23 MR . JIM CLARY : It does not have an
24 address . It ' s on --
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Approximate
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— 1 location .
2 MR . JIM CLARY : Well , what ' s your
3 address?
4 So it would be about 41705 Weld County
—
5 Road 15 .
.- 6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you .
7 MR . JIM CLARY : And my son and his
., 8 family -- we have two grandchildren , 5 and 11 , and
9 they want to build there , but when we told them about
10 the proposal of the dairy , they said it would be no
11 place to raise children . They didn ' t want them in
12 that influence of the traffic or anything else .
13 I thank you for your time . Do you have any
14 questions?
15 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
16 I ' m sorry , do you need that for an
17 exhibit? He didn ' t -- he just read from the paper .
— 18 MR . MORRISON : Well , it ' s in the record .
19 It would be preferable if we had a copy .
20 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mr . Clary , can we
.. 21 have your copy of what you read from for -- so we can
22 put it in the record as an exhibit , please .
— 23 MR . JIM CLARY : Yes , you may .
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you .
25 MR . MORRISON : Spell your last name .
140
.. 1 MR . JIM CLARY : CLAR Y .
2 MR . MORRISON : CLAR Y?
3 MR . JIM CLARY : Thank you .
4 MS . EVELYN CLARK : I ' m Evelyn Clark . The
5 location of our farm is 7197 Highway 14 .
�. 6 I , too , am opposed to the proposed
7 4 , 000-cow dairy and for about the same reason as
8 Mr . Clary . We bought our farm in 1965 as my husband
9 was preparing to go to Vietnam . He was a career Army
10 aviator . And before he went to Vietnam he decided he
11 needed to have a piece of this country that he had
12 been defending . So we bought -- we bought the farm .
13 When he retired after 29 years of being an
14 Army pilot , we brought our two sons , one in
15 kindergarten and one in second grade , and raised them
16 on the farm and they loved it . We enjoyed the
17 animals , we enjoyed raising the food , we enjoyed the
18 neighbors , the neighborhood .
19 The children liked Weld County , the school
20 at Windsor . And when Timmy graduated from high
21 school at Windsor , he followed in his father ' s
22 footsteps . He went to West Point and then became an
23 Army aviator . And he had many -- as my husband had
24 overseas assignments during World War II , Korea and
25 Vietnam , Timmy had overseas assignments in Korea ,
141
1 flying helicopters over the DMZ between North and
2 South Korea in ' 87 . Then he was sent to fly
3 helicopters in Desert Storm and then C-12s in Bosnia .
4 And I ' m telling you this because the
5 reoccurring theme in his letters , and occasionally
6 when he was able to call us , was that , " I want to
7 come home and live on the farm . " And , of course , we
8 wanted him to come home and live on the farm .
9 And now -- and we thought it was very
10 possible because since we got the farm , there had
11 been 18 recorded exemptions and a four-lot minor
12 subdivision approved in 1999 and the five-lot
13 subdivision now in zoning and planning .
14 And it seems to me that -- and like
15 Mr . Clary , we have two grandsons , and we want Timmy
16 to come home , bring his family , and be able to raise
17 our grandsons , his children , on the farm . And our
18 farm is located , part of it , down by Highway 14 and
19 then it extends north . So it ' s within , I guess , a
20 half a mile of the proposed dairy .
21 And it seems to me that with the trend of
22 growth in the west side of Weld County , that it
23 wouldn ' t be compatible to have a 4 , 000-cow dairy
24 there because of the wind that would carry the ground
25 particulates from the feed and the odors . I hope
142
1 that you will not impose that on this area .
2 Thank you very much .
3 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Sure . Thank you .
4 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : May I ask a quick
5 question?
6 MS . EVELYN CLARK : Questions?
7 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : You mentioned --
-
8 could you tell me the distance from the dairy that
9 the four-lot subdivision you ' re talking about and the
10 five-lot proposal? You ' re naming a number of houses .
11 Are they close to this dairy or --
12 MS . EVELYN CLARK : Oh , yes . The four
13 lots -- Mr . Gelvin can explain it better than I can .
14 The four lots are right over here . Here ' s the dairy ,
15 and they ' re just right across the road from it .
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : That would be
17 approximately at the intersections of Weld County
18 Road 84 and 15 ?
19 MS . EVELYN CLARK : Yes , uh-huh .
20 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay .
21 MS . EVELYN CLARK : And then the five-lot
22 one is -- let ' s see , is this Highway 14?
23 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Yeah , should be .
24 MS . EVELYN CLARK : The five-lot one is
25 right here .
143
1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Right here is just
2 north of 14 on --
3 MS . EVELYN CLARK : Just north of 14 and --
4 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : 21 ?
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD : No , 15 .
�. 6 MS . EVELYN CLARK : It ' s east of 7197
7 Highway 14 , because we live here . And then my son
8 wants to build up here . We own this section -- this
9 part here and we -- he wants to build up north of the
10 dairy and this would be about a half a mile .
11 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . Thank
12 you .
13 All right , is there anyone else who would
14 like to come forward at this time?
15 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : My name is Carolyn
16 Clary and I live at 6776 Weld County Road 86 .
17 I ' m a nurse and I would rather be serving
18 you in that capacity than this . But I will take your
19 blood pressures after this , if you wish .
20 UNKNOWN PERSON : Mine would be too high .
21 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mine ' s usually low .
22 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : I am to the west and
23 the north -- at the north end of the Dye property . I
24 think my husband showed that out to you . It ' s right
^
25 up there .
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_ 1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . So
2 approximately Weld County Road 15 and 86?
3 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : Uhm-hum . Exactly .
4 You ' re getting real familiar with this area , aren ' t
5 you?
_ 6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : I ' m pretty familiar
7 with Weld County .
8 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : Me , too . It ' s a good
9 place .
10 We have 45 acres and we have 18 shares of
11 North Poudre water that we irrigate with and we ' ve
12 lived on this property for 22 years , so we ' re not one
13 of those people that have moved in and don ' t like
14 agriculture . That ' s all I ' ve ever known in my life .
.. 15 And we ' re looking forward to retirement on
�. 16 this farm . We raise alfalfa hay to try to supplement
17 our income . Along with all the other concerns that
18 you ' ve heard from all my neighbors , I have many of
19 the same and I ' m really concerned about this
20 catastrophic event , this 25-year thing . 25-24 , is
21 that what they call it?
22 And I was kind of interested at the
.. 23 planning and zoning committee , when it was asked of
24 Mr . Haren from one of the commissioners of planning
25 and zoning , is that in the event that you do have a
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1 catastrophic event that does fill up that system , the
2 issue that was raised was that if the ground was
3 already saturated , where are you going to dewater
4 that to? And I never felt very satisfied in that
5 kind of an answer . I still do not feel satisfied
6 with what that answer ' s going to be .
7 The -- Mr . Haren ' s reply was , if I can
8 restate the concern of the 25-year storm and land
9 applying on saturated ground , the capital regulations
10 do not allow applications to the ground , saturated or
11 frozen . And then he says you can apply it
12 year-round .
13 I suppose that would be like an event of
14 last year when we could do anything all winter long ,
15 but not this year .
16 Those are the only two exceptions . And ,
17 you know , the -- that was his answer and it really
18 didn ' t answer my question . I ' d like to know that
19 answer .
20 Because of the increased amount of land
21 that has been taken up because of the revision of the
22 plans to accommodate the employee housing and the
.. 23 movement of the manure piles to the half mile line ,
24 and the increase in the number and the size of berms
�" 25 as well as tailwater ponds , most of that effluent
146
1 will have to be spread on that land to the east of
2 our place . And that would be at the little end of
3 the triangle up there .
4 And I would like to know how much of the
5 land is still available for Mr . Dye to apply his
6 wastewater on after all of these things . Is there
7 going to be an adequate amount of land for the
8 application of nitrate-rich effluent?
9 And , number two , a concern I have is that
10 piece of land , having lived there and having
11 irrigated this -- our piece of land for 22 years -- I
12 did say I -- historically when the farmer that owned
13 that property irrigated that , say , a crop of corn , it
14 would take him about four days using about 80 inches
15 or 4 acre-feet per day of water for 35 acres . And he
16 would do that for about four days . Because he lived
17 on that farm , he was a very attentive irrigator .
18 Didn ' t sleep at the end of the corn rows like you
19 hear , but he was pretty attentive .
20 And on a given day of irrigating ,
21 20 percent of that water would leave this farm along
22 with a whole lot of silt and it would flow onto the
_. 23 road and into a drainage ditch that goes through our
24 property . You can see it here , this line . That ' s --
25 that ' s a lot of water rushing down there through
147
1 that .
2 And in addition to that , as the water hits
3 that shale there close to the irrigation ditch on
4 that -- on the Dye property , as well as that leaky
5 Cactus Hill Ditch that you ' ve heard everything about ,
6 that it parallels , it saturates that soil up there at
7 the top so fast and it goes down , hits that shale --
8 shale layer , runs right down , and then it
9 subirrigates that eastern portion of our land .
10 Also , there in that irrigation -- that
11 drainage ditch I showed you , year around there is
12 water that comes from the subsurfaces there and feeds
13 on down that ditch .
14 The silt that flows eventually fills up
15 that ditch in our field and it has to be backhoed out
16 quite regularly , otherwise that field becomes very
17 saturated . Our hay field becomes very saturated with
18 water , gets very alkaline and unusable .
19 If this plan is approved , how will Mr . Dye
20 mitigate that soil movement? And how will he -- and
21 how will we market our hay that will be subjected to
22 the nitrates and become toxic to the animals , if that
23 should arise? The plan needs to be in place to
24 monitor our groundwater as well , I feel , because of
25 the fact that it subsurfaces and subirrigates that
148
1 area .
—
2 If this plan is approved , this area where
3 most of that contaminated water will be applied , I
4 would like to know how he intends to contain that
._ 5 water runoff in a 25-24 event . There ' s nothing in
6 the comprehensive plan that I have found to answer
7 the original question that was imposed at the
— 8 planning and zoning .
9 And I propose that they must put in some
.. 10 tailwater ponds for surface runoff and silt
.. 11 containment , and how will they address the problem of
12 the subsurface water and potential damage to our
13 cropland?
14 If this plan is approved , our home is
15 situated where we will be sandwiched in between the
16 6 , 000-dairy animals and because of our location to
—
17 both Greeley and Weld , the land all around us is
— 18 being sold for prices that are pretty high for trying
19 to make it on agriculture . And it has become a very ,
—
20 very desirable place to pursue dreams of peaceful ,
21 high-quality homes , and a dairy of this size in this
—
22 pristine area would be a travesty . That ' s a favorite
— 23 word of one of my neighbors . I had to put that there
24 for him .
—
25 You know, I even think that you could use a
149
1 strong enough language that would be just really
2 raping that neighborhood because it just will take
3 away the innocence of everybody that lives around
4 there and would be a plundering type of an act .
5 There ' s also a lot of problems that are
.. 6 surfacing right now in Weld County about the hog farm
7 situation , the National Hog Farm , and the use of
8 lagoons nationwide is even becoming a big question
9 whether , you know , they can even continue with it .
10 It ' s not just a local problem , it ' s a national
11 problem , it ' s an international problem . We ' ve heard
12 all the problems with the Netherlands and the
13 problems with the nitrates .
14 If this plan is approved , they are also
15 talking about putting a berm along County Road 15
16 with trees and so on . And I want to make sure that
17 that ' s back far enough that it isn ' t going to stop
18 the snow and cause a lot of drifting along County
19 Road 15 . That ' s a big concern I have . And probably
20 Mr . Road here , I don ' t know his name -- Mr . Road and
21 Bridge --
22 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mr . Carroll .
-� 23 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : Okay . -- would know
24 what that ' s all about .
25 And if this plan is approved , and because
150
1 of all the berms , the tailwater ponds , lack of
2 sufficient water to irrigate properly because he does
3 not have any water tied up to irrigate that corn that
4 he wants to use to mitigate that amount of nitrate ,
5 the large manure piles and the general size of this
6 monstrous dairy is going to be a big problem with
7 weeds .
8 And there ' s a lot of grain that ' s dropped
9 all the time that causes a big increase in starlings
10 and sparrows . Even the little dairy that we had
11 around there had a lot of problems with starlings and
12 so on . As well as increase in rodents and that awful
13 bird called flies .
14 I have a major concern about the increased
15 use of herbicides and pesticides . I was diagnosed
16 with breast cancer about two years ago and after all
17 the surgeries and radiation and other treatments I
18 was told that the increase of these products in our
19 environment play a major role in me getting this
20 dreaded disease .
21 And I do not hesitate to tell you that this
22 whole issue terrifies me . One of the things we all
23 need to be doing , not just me , is be out getting
24 exercise . And I do like to walk my neighborhood . I
25 have put many foot miles in that neighborhood . And I
151
1 am concerned about the impact of the herbicides and
2 pesticides , as I think all of you should be , too .
3 We have raised hay for many years and
4 Mr . Dye has never brought -- bought any hay from us .
5 And in talking with a lot of the other farmers in the
6 area , they did not know of anyone that has sold hay
7 to Mr . Dye either , other than his tenant-farmer .
8 The proposed -- the proposal states that
9 the adjacent farms would supply commodities to the
10 Dyecrest Dairies , but historically this just has not
11 been so .
12 And another thing , I would -- I ' ve observed
13 Mr . Dye many times enjoying a good ride on his horses
14 around our neighborhood and I almost always wave to
^
15 him . It ' s a friendly neighborhood , and I like to
16 wave to people . That ' s where I grew up . And never
17 once has he ever waved or even given us any kind of
18 recognition . And I kind of sometimes wonder , is he
19 really a good neighbor? What -- you know , what is
20 your definition of a good neighbor?
21 Let me read you some observations from the
22 community about Mr . Dye . He arrived from New York
23 about 15 years ago with a background in dairying and
24 raising purebred Holstein cattle . He purchased a
25 bankrupt cattle-and-sheep feeding operation con --
152
1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay , Mrs . Clary I ' m
2 going to ask you to tell me what the relevance is of
3 those observations to the case .
4 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : The relevance is the
5 fact that he ' s our neighbor that wants to put this in
6 and there ' s concern about , you know , what is his next
7 interest going to be? What is his next pursuit going
8 to be? It isn ' t very long but --
9 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : No . The issue
10 before us and the case , the application -- we have to
11 look at compatibility to the land and the surrounding
12 land , not necessarily observations that you have
13 about Mr . Dye .
14 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : I agree with that ,
15 but , you know , I ' ve sat here and listened to the
16 opposition say what a good man this man is and that ' s
17 about the only thing I hear from -- from the people
18 that are pro him . They talk about his character ,
19 they talk about how good of an operator he is , but
20 I -- you know , that ' s why I wanted to bring this up .
21 This isn ' t just me saying this , this is what the
22 neighbors know about our neighbor .
23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . I just don ' t
24 feel the relevance there towards this case .
25 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : Would you like --
153
1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Does it talk about
2 the management? If you ' d like to submit that as part
3 of an exhibit , that would be all right .
4 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : I ' ll submit this to
5 you , and if you will read it , if you can take the
6 time to read it , otherwise I will be happy to read it
7 to you .
8 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : If you ' d like to
9 submit it , that would be fine .
10 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : Okay .
11 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
12 Are there any questions of Mrs . Clary? No .
13 Okay . Thank you .
14 Is there anyone else now who would like to
15 come forward at this time?
16 MS . CAROLYN CLARY : I ' ve got some
17 conclusions .
18 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : My name is Howard
19 Ramsdell . I live at 40301 Weld County Road 17 . It ' s
20 located approximately in the middle of Section 8 ,
21 but about one-half mile south -- southeast of the
22 proposed dairy . So downwind during much of the year .
.. 23 I ' m opposed to the approval of this
24 4 , 000-cow dairy in the neighborhood . It ' s
25 incompatible with the existing land uses , which are
154
1 largely rural residential .
2 We ' ve chosen to live in this neighborhood
3 because of the ability to have animals , to enjoy an
4 agricultural environment , but not to be downwind of
5 an industrial dairy .
6 These residential uses and the nearby
7 properties already exist . In addition , the County
8 has , in the past few years , approved additional
9 zoning changes that will increase the number of
10 residential lots in the area . And now we ' re being
11 asked to accept a 4 , 000-cow dairy into our midst .
12 Now , I should mention to you that I am an
13 assistant professor in the Department of
14 Environmental Health at Colorado State University .
15 I ' m speaking on behalf of myself and my neighbors as
16 an interested resident rather than on behalf of the
17 university . My comments do not reflect the policies
�- 18 of the university or my department .
19 For over 10 years I ' ve been an
20 environmental toxicologist teaching and doing
21 research in this field . The generation of noxious
22 dust is well-known to be associated with dairy
23 operations .
24 In my written comments to you that I ' d
25 submitted previously I mentioned a number of studies
155
1 associated in increased risk of respiratory disease
2 among dairy workers . It ' s thought that the major
3 causes of this respiratory disease may be linked to
4 exposure to dust from manure and feed grinding . Now ,
5 basic principles of environmental health protection
6 is that if otherwise healthy workers can suffer
7 disease as the result of an occupational exposure ,
8 then one has to be extremely concerned about the
9 potential health risks to other people who may not be
10 as healthy , that is , older people like many of my
11 neighbors , and children .
12 This imposition of this large dairy factory
13 will expose a number of people , the residents in the
14 neighborhood , to these adverse health effects . In
15 addition , just to choose one compound generated by a
_ 16 dairy operation , ammonia , which arises from manure
17 and feces -- Mackee from the University of Illinois ,
18 Department of Animal Science , writes in the Journal
19 of Animal Science , states that typically a dairy cow
20 produces 8 . 8 kilograms of ammonia per cow per year .
21 For 2 , 000 milking cows alone , this would
22 represent in the neighborhood of 100 pounds of
23 ammonia per day . And I think most of you are
24 familiar with the cleaning product that contains
^
25 ammonia . Well , this compound also can produce
156
1 pulmonary edema , irritation of the respiratory tract
2 and , asphyxia . That is , death .
3 Now , to put into perspective , 100 pounds of
4 ammonia per day , which is generated from the waste ,
5 which presumably is going to be treated on-site or
6 disbursed on-site , or composted on-site , 100 pounds
7 is enough to cover 208 acres disbursed , 100 pounds
8 disbursed over 208 acres to a depth of 2 meters , that
9 is , to include my breathing zone . I ' m about 6 feet
10 tall . 208 acres . At that level , an ammonia
11 concentration can equal to the short—term exposure
12 limit of 27 milligrams per cubic meter , as stated in
�- 13 the 1989 revisions to 29 CFR , Section 1910 . 1000 .
14 This is a maximum allowable air contaminate
15 concentration , protective of human health .
16 208 acres . So if you imagine this 278—acre
17 parcel , even if it were disbursed evenly over this
18 area , and this air migrates downhill toward the
19 residences nearby , these people are going to be
20 exposed to excessive levels of this very toxic
21 chemical . This is just one example of the toxic
22 chemicals that are going to be associated with this
.- 23 dairy operation .
24 Thank you for your attention . I ' d be happy
25 to answer any questions .
157
1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mike .
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Yes , if I could , sir ,
3 one question . When does a dairy become an industrial
4 dairy? I ' m not sure I understand the
5 interpretation --
6 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : Well , I would say if
7 it falls under the restrictions of the Confined
8 Animal Feeding Act .
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE : So you ' re saying it
10 becomes -- a dairy becomes industrial when it , in
11 essence , is -- the laws or the rules under the CAFO ,
12 in essence , trigger that --
-
13 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : Well , I think you
14 could also think of it in terms of when it no longer
15 is producing its own feed , where it ' s essentially
16 becoming an operation where feed is brought in and
17 milk is taken-- and manure are taken out , where the
18 only operation on the site is housing the animals and
19 converting feed into milk . They ' re not growing their
^
20 own feed , they ' re only using the corn they propose to
21 plant as a place to dispose of wastewater and
22 stormwater runoff .
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Well , are you also
24 suggesting , if I could -- I just want to make sure I
25 understand the basis of your testimony .
158
.. 1 Are you suggesting that anything over a
2 thousand head -- a dairy operation over a thousand
3 head is environmentally unsound?
4 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : No . I am not . I ' m
5 saying that under the proposed plan , there will be a
6 high concentration of animals in a relatively small
7 area and it will be located relatively close to
8 residential areas . There are many areas in this
9 county that are much further away from residential
10 areas with such a high concentration of the
11 population .
12 Obviously it ' s not an urban density , but
13 what makes this proposal unfortunate is that it is
14 close to existing residential uses . And these people
15 will have no choice but to live with this operation
16 or move away .
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE : If I could , just one
18 more .
19 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Sure .
20 COMMISSIONER GEILE : One more question .
21 Has the proximity you -- where you live , have you had
22 any concerns or complaints about the existing dairy?
23 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : The existing dairy?
24 If I could point out , we live in the middle of
25 Section 8 . The existing dairy is over here .
159
�. 1 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Right .
2 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : We ' re far enough
.. 3 away that we don ' t perceive that problem from the
4 existing dairy . The new dairy will be much closer to
5 us and our neighbors and there are many agricultural
_. 6 operations in the area . Cactus Hill Feedlot is
7 upwind of us . Sometimes -- there are lots of people
8 around us that have animals . We can tell that they
9 have sheep , but that doesn ' t bother us the way that
10 this kind of 150 tons of manure a day composting
11 operation is going to affect us .
12 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Any further
13 questions ?
14 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Just a very quick
15 question . You spent quite a bit of time on the
16 ammonia . Would you explain to us , is ammonia the
17 type of gas that tends to rise or does it follow the
'- 18 ground? You indicated it would go downhill to the
19 neighbors .
20 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : Well , it would
21 depend on the atmospheric conditions at a given time .
22 On a still day , it is going to tend to flow downhill
23 with any prevailing winds . It ' s just going to depend
24 on the amount of disbursal .
25 And I was making , if you will , a worst-case
160
1 calculation of minimal disbursal , but also the
2 quantity of material that we ' re talking about is
3 rather substantial . This amount -- this would be the
4 kind of thing that would affect the regulation of an
5 industrial operation , for instance , that generated
6 this toxic gas .
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Any further
8 questions ?
9 So depending on the atmospheric pressure ,
10 the ammonia would stay on the ground?
�. 11 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : Well , it would
12 depend on wind direction , amount of turbulence , wind
13 direction , speed . I ' m not trying to assert anything
14 about the actual exposure that one could predict .
15 That would be a little bit difficult to do in precise
16 terms for the breeding zone in a particular location
17 nearby .
18 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : And how close are
19 we -- what is the exposure , I mean , what would be the
20 distance of the exposure in a mile , two miles , three
21 miles ?
22 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : It would depend on
23 wind speed and direction . I can tell you that 100
24 pounds of ammonia disbursed in this room would kill
25 every one of us .
^
161
_ 1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
2 MR . HOWARD RAMSDELL : I just want to put
— 3 that in perspective .
4 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Any other
5 questions?
6 Next .
7 DR . JOANE BOWEN : My name is Joane Bowen .
8 My address is 5036 East Larimer County Road 60 ,
9 Wellington , Colorado .
10 I ' m here at the request of five sheep
11 producers who live within two miles of the proposed
12 dairy . You have a letter from me in the record
13 stating concerns about diseases that can be
14 transmitted from cattle to sheep . I believe that two
15 of those diseases were discussed at the last hearing .
16 But I ' d like to remind you that we have a
17 situation here where there are at least five
18 producers who are within a mile of this proposed
19 dairy . You have a similar situation over on
20 Weld County Road -- between 80 and 78 , east of 23 .
21 If you look at your yellow area on the map
22 there , that is Weld County Road 23 going north and
23 south and Weld County Road 80 is the -- at the bottom
24 of the yellow area . One mile east of 23 , there is a
25 large sheep feedlot there , Mountain View Feeders .
162
— 1 Approximately 250 feet to the south of that feedlot
2 is the northern border of the Hirsch Dairy .
3 The feedlot was in position first and has
4 been operating several years in that area . And since
5 the dairy has come in , the dairy producer has found
6 that every fall he ' s losing 10 to 50 cows a year from
7 a disease called malignant catarrhal fever .
8 And I guess one of the things I would like
9 to bring to your attention is if this dairy is
10 approved , it ' s going to be in a similar situation of
11 being in close proximity to sheep . Sheep do not
12 become diseased with this disease , they carry the
13 virus that causes it . No one knows how the virus is
14 transmitted , there ' s no known control , no treatment
15 and no prevention . It is a fatal disease of cattle ,
16 deer and elk and , consequently , I do not want to see
17 these sheep producers at some point in the future
18 being penalized for being there and then having a
19 disease occur in the cattle at the dairy as a result .
20 And this has been demonstrated at the
21 Hirsch Dairy on Weld County Road 78 south of the
22 sheep feedlot .
23 Are there any other questions?
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Questions?
25 DR . JOANE BOWEN : Thank you .
-
-
163
1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you .
2 MS . SUE KERCHENFAUT : My name is Sue
3 Kerchenfaut . I live at 41490 Weld County Road 13 .
4 also live with my husband , Ken , across -- directly
5 across the road from the dairy that exists now , the
6 Dyecrest Dairy .
7 I ' m very sorry that this issue has become
8 so divisive in our neighborhood . I understand that
9 the people who are near the proposed dairy have a lot
10 of concerns . But since I live directly across from
.. 11 the present dairy , it ' s -- which is about the same
12 size , I think , as the proposed dairy , I have to say
13 that a lot of these concerns are really not going to
14 happen . We don ' t have any problem . We live downwind
15 from the dairy -- or the winds come from the dairy .
16 We very seldom have odor . There ' s no --
-
17 not much dust , there ' s no particulate matter in the
18 air except , you know, on high wind days , and when the
19 farmers have been plowing , and there ' s a lot of silt
20 in the air , it comes not just from the dairy but from
21 the plowed fields .
22 I would like to say that I -- the Dyes are
.- 23 good neighbors . They do buy our hay , so it ' s not
24 true that they don ' t buy from their neighbors , and I
25 know of several other people in the area that buy --
164
1 that Terry buys hay from , also .
2 They ' re very -- you know, that ' s not -- I ' m
3 sorry it ' s gotten personal because I don ' t think
4 that ' s even an issue .
5 I would like to say that I moved to
6 Weld County because I want to live in a rural area
7 and it ' s -- it distresses me far more than a new
8 dairy to see the amount of residential housing that
9 is coming our way and we ' re being surrounded by it .
10 And I believe that that ' s a concern of most
11 of my neighbors that their land values are going to
12 go down so that they cannot sell their land at some
13 future for residences . So those are my concerns .
14 But I ' m in favor of the proposed dairy
^
15 because I think it ' s ag use and I think that ' s what
16 Weld County should be looking at .
17 Thank you .
18 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Just a
19 second . Are there any questions? Just -- I ' m sorry .
20 For the record could you spell your last name ,
21 please .
22 MS . SUE KERCHENFAUT : KERCHEN
► 23 F A U T .
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you .
25 Commissioner Vaad , do you have a question?
165
1 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Yes . I ' m sorry if you
2 mentioned it , but I didn ' t hear it . How much
3 property do you own?
4 MS . SUE KERCHENFAUT : We have 61 acres .
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Thank you .
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Any other questions?
7 MS . SUE KERCHENFAUT : Any other
8 questions?
9 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . Thank
10 you .
11 MS . SUE KERCHENFAUT : Thanks .
12 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay , next .
13 MR . ANCEL LEWIS : My name is Ancel Lewis .
14 I live at 6510 Weld County Road 86 . I happen to be
^
15 the -- in the center of 13 , 15 , 84 , 86 , so I ' m
16 directly -- one-half mile to the west is the old
17 dairy , one-half mile to the east is the new dairy .
18 I recently moved in this property . It was
19 owned by Dr . Carlson . This is 26 acres . It has a
20 wetland , it has a lake . It ' s -- the lake is used to
21 irrigate some tillable land . Dr . Carlson had 10
22 horses -- or 10 head of cattle , two horses , and he
�. 23 had farmed the acreage there with the water coming
24 off the lake .
25 I can give you some impressions from
166
1 someone who ' s just moved into this neighborhood and
2 face the prospect of having 2 , 000 head of cattle on
3 one side of me and 4 , 000 head of cattle on the other
4 side .
5 I -- I ' ve observed , having moved into the
6 neighborhood , that there ' s considerable amount of
7 noise from the industrial equipment that operates on
8 the dairy to the west ; the beep-beep and the movement
9 of manure . I ' ve also observed as they went over to
10 the new site and had heavy equipment in there grading
11 that property and heavy equipment operating and I ' m
12 sure there will be more of that .
13 I ' m very concerned about the wetlands and
14 the reservoir that is -- the land slopes from that
15 site down onto my property . The ditch along
16 Highway 15 , as Tracy explained , there ' s -- I think
17 there ' s a grave concern about the runoff from that
18 site down through the wetlands and into my reservoir .
19 And my grandkids play there and I will
20 irrigate from that reservoir . And there ' s a fair
21 amount of wildlife that ' s on those wetlands . So that
22 drainage is a concern .
23 Having been new in the area I was totally
24 surprised that there ' s a proposal of a 4 , 000-cow
25 dairy within a mile of a 2 , 000-cow dairy and ,
167
1 unfortunately , I happened to be in between .
2 But it seems to me when I saw this site ,
3 there was no way that I could foresee that someone
4 would be coming in and placing such a large , what I
5 consider a significant business operation on that
6 property with all these other property owners so
7 close . And I think industrial or commercial is a
8 good description for a 4 , 000-cow farm .
9 Well , I ' m self-employed and I have an
10 office in Fort Collins and I plan to follow what
11 Dr . Carlson had , some horses and -- and farm that
12 land . It just seems to me that this piece of
13 operation in this neighborhood is -- is extreme .
14 It ' s hard to understand how you can go from
15 a site that didn ' t even have a thousand cow dairy to
16 a -- suddenly a 4 , 000-cow dairy and without having
17 substantial impact on these 20 to 30 families that
18 are in the neighborhood .
19 I think the air , the noise , the traffic ,
20 and the health concerns are substantial and I would
21 urge you that this isn ' t the right place for such an
22 expansion .
23 Any questions?
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : No . Thank you .
25 I guess there is a question . Commissioner .
168
1 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Mr . Lewis , were you
2 aware of what we heard alleged that there was an
3 offer made to buy out Mr . Dye before he went on --
4 MR . ANCEL LEWIS : Only -- I heard it but I
5 was not aware of any of the details of that .
6 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Thank you .
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you .
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Just if I could .
9 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : I ' m sorry , just one
10 more question . Sorry .
11 COMMISSIONER GEILE : When did you purchase
12 this property?
13 MR . ANCEL LEWIS : I moved in two months
14 ago .
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Two months ago .
16 MR . ANCEL LEWIS : I was negotiating with
17 Dr . Carlson . By the way , he has a letter in the file
18 as a medical doctor , had a lot of concerns about the
19 health problems . He also had a lot of concerns about
20 the overrun of the water . And he described to me
21 instances where the water was high and run off the
22 ditch on 15 and onto this property . And it ' s going
23 to happen .
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE : The reason I asked the
25 question is , do you feel that the property was
169
1 devalued because of the proximity of the dairy farm?
2 And then the other question I had , if I could kind of
3 carry it over , the fact that in Weld County we have
4 what ' s called a use-by-right , and there was a
5 potential of over a thousand head dairy that could go
6 on this site anyway , were you --
7 MR . ANCEL LEWIS : I wasn ' t aware of that .
8 I would respect a use-by-right , that seems
9 reasonable , although there ' s never been a thousand
10 head dairy cattle on that site and there certainly
11 wasn ' t when I looked around .
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE : But do you feel that
13 the proximity of Mr . Dye ' s current dairy devalued the
14 property which you purchased or caused you to get a
15 good deal --
16 MR . ANCEL LEWIS : I have no -- no , the deal
17 isn ' t there . I moved there because I wanted the open
18 space and the type of homes that are in that area . I
19 was very impressed by the neighborhood and the
.. 20 cleanliness and the clean air .
.. 21 And it sort of shocks me that it ' s -- this
22 whole large operation is going to be right next to me
23 and drain into my property .
24 I don ' t know , value , hard to know what
.. 25 the -- how the value ' s changed . I don ' t care about
170
1 the value , I care about the health .
2 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you . Next .
r 3 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Good morning . I ' m
4 Cleon Kimberling from 6615 Weld County Road 84 .
r
5 And I think that in your file , hopefully
7
6 you received a booklet as such --
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : We did .
r 8 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : -- with my concerns
9 in there .
r
10 And so I think that to proceed , I will give
11 you each a packet of photographs . Maybe this will
12 help to explain the neighborhood where people live ,
a 13 where the impact is going to be . So I ' d like to pass
14 those around if I could .
r 15 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : If you would hand
16 them to the county attorney there .
r
17 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : I ' m -- like Howard
a 18 Ramsdell , I ' m from CSU . I ' m not representing CSU or
19 any of their concerns , strictly because I ' m here at
20 this particular location .
21 I ' m extension veterinarian for Colorado
r
22 State University . I work with animal producers all
23 over the state . I also have lived on this property
24 for 32 years . We have 66 irrigated acres .
r` 25 And my -- a few of my concerns I ' ll lay out
a
171
1 here , hopefully fairly brief , so that you can be
2 aware of these .
3 Howard mentioned some of the conditions . I
4 want to point out to you some of the impacts , the
5 environmental impacts , microbial and minerals . The
6 microbial impacts , cryptosporidiosis , which is a
7 disease in cattle transmitted to man . And this is --
8 it ' s in about 25 percent of all the calves that have
9 diarrhea will have cryptosporidia .
10 Why is this important? Because about two
._ 11 years ago a municipality in Wisconsin was -- had an
12 outbreak in the total -- well , much of that
13 population of cryptosporidia and it was traced back
14 allegedly to contaminated water from a large confined
.. 15 dairy operation . So this is one concern .
16 There are some other concerns coming from
17 there , which are probably minor , the E . coli 0157 ,
18 Salmonella , and some of these others . They don ' t
19 persist in the environment quite the way that the
20 other -- that cryptosporidia does .
21 Speaking just a little bit to the --
22 what ' s been alluded to before , or talked about
�. 23 before , is the impact of nitrogen and the need to
24 have the amount of corn , water , so forth , irrigation
25 water , to take up that nitrogen .
172
1 Nitrogen , of course , can cause -- if it
2 gets into the water system , can cause health problems
3 in both animal and man .
4 Phosphorous . And phosphorous adheres to
5 soil particles and is carried away in the runoff . I
6 happen to be on the legislative advisory committee
7 for the American Veterinary Medical Association and
8 we meet in Washington twice a year . At our last
9 meeting in October we met with the EPA . Phosphorous
10 is their major concern from large confinement
11 operations . So they ' re going to be coming at us on
12 this issue of phosphorous more and more .
13 One of the other fellows that sits on this
14 committee is a dairy practitioner out of -- out of
15 Idaho . He owns a dairy . He operates one for his
16 father-in-law . And both of those large dairies , he
17 says that EPA is on them constantly about this bit of
18 phosphorous in polluting the environment .
19 Now what does phosphorous do? It gets into
^
20 the water by the soil particles and destroys the
21 aquatic life . And Mr . Lewis just alluded to the
22 fact -- or he talked about the fact that that ' s going
23 to get into his pond . And I think in the booklet
24 that I gave you , it has some pictures in there
25 showing what happens , if you studied that .
173
1 Sue mentioned just awhile ago about where
2 they live , and they ' re off here to the west side of
3 this . They ' re not under a drainage from the current
4 dairy that ' s there . The current dairy sets right
5 here in this location , and all of the drainage that
6 comes from that -- this is the Cactus Hill Ditch that
7 comes down through here -- all of the drainage from
8 that comes across these properties , comes through our
9 property right here --
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mr . Kimberling ,
11 we ' re talking about the proposed dairy .
12 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : This is the
13 proposed dairy , right .
14 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : It ' s not the current
15 dairy , it ' s the proposed dairy .
16 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : I ' m sorry if I
17 misled you . This is the proposed dairy right here .
18 All of that drainage , every bit of it , comes right
19 through here , right down through us . Our place is
20 right here . The Clarys mentioned that their place is
21 there . Mr . Lewis mentioned his place right here .
22 Here ' s his pond . Here ' s the wetlands that we speak
23 about in the article that I -- the -- that I gave
24 you . •
25 And so all of the phosphorous that has
174
1 developed here comes down through this wetlands area
2 and contributes to probably degradation of those
3 wetlands and that pond . Then it dumps into the Water
4 Supply and Storage Canal and goes on into Black
5 Hollow Reservoir .
6 So this area right in here is -- and --
7 well , you can see what ' s going to happen there . It ' s
8 going to all come off of these different drainages
9 lined up in Black Hollow Reservoir and the rest of
10 our water system .
11 Now, I think you have a better photograph
12 in your file there , but we don ' t have to wait for
13 that 25-year event . Here ' s what happened last summer
14 from irrigation water right off from that property I
15 just mentioned . That it filled up the county ditch ,
16 it ran down through us , it filled up our ditch ,
17 buried a culvert where we go off into the pasture --
18 maybe that ' s a good thing because now we don ' t have
19 to worry about that culvert , we can drive across
20 there without even finding it .
21 Here ' s another picture of that particular
22 area out onto the county road . This is just from
23 irrigation water . This wasn ' t from rain .
24 This , I went up there Sunday morning to see
25 if this had been cleaned up out of the borrow pit .
175
_ 1 And you can ' t see that too well on this -- on this
2 projection , it ' s better in your file there , but
3 here ' s the mound of dirt that came off from there and
4 it ' s still there .
5 You can see the other side of the road ,
6 clean , weed -- there ' s no weeds at all . We ' re very
7 proud of this community that we live in . Now , let ' s
8 take another quick look at -- at the -- so you have
9 an idea of the neighborhood .
10 This , again , is the proposed dairy where
11 they ' re going to place things . These white circles
12 here are residences so you can see -- this is all --
13 all of these are close proximity residences of that
14 proposed 4 , 000-cow dairy . There ' s one other one up
15 here , Mary Weiss , been there for 51 years , has some
16 respiratory and cardiac problems right now .
17 And this is where the entrance of that new
18 proposed dairy ' s going to be . This shows the
19 other -- another part of that . Our residence is
^
20 right here . You can see the drainage that comes down
21 through here , down through our wetlands , through the
22 Lewis ' pond up here and then into the -- into the
23 canal .
24 This just shows , again , the proximity of
25 different residences in that neighborhood . So I
^
176
1 guess I ' ll leave with you : How will they -- a
2 4 , 000-cow dairy benefit the county and the
3 community? And will the uses for which it would be
4 permitted be compatible with the existing surrounding
5 land uses? I don ' t think it is . And who will
6 benefit? One family at the expense of 25 neighbors .
7 Thank you .
8 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you . Just a
9 second . Questions?
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Yes , I did .
11 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Yes .
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Maybe you could clear
13 up a question that I had about Black Hollow
14 Reservoir . That ' s owned by the Water Storage and
15 Supply Company , as I recall .
16 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : I think so .
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE : I didn ' t think of it
18 until I think Mrs . Clary ' s comments were passed
19 around . But the sale of a lot of farms to Thornton
20 were actually those farms which were where the water
21 was , in essence , directly tied to the Water Storage
22 and Supply Company ; is that correct?
.- 23 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : I think you ' re
24 right .
25 COMMISSIOENR GEILE : Yeah , well , anyway , is
177
1 the Poudre Irrigation Company , are they tied in to
2 the Water Storage and Supply Company?
3 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Oh , you know , I
4 can ' t tell you on that for sure because they exchange
5 water . Now , under North Poudre , which -- under North
., 6 Poudre Irrigation System , which all of us out there
7 in that community are under , there ' s -- a lot of that
8 water comes out of the Big Thompson , out of that
9 project that was put up there in 1946 and distributes
10 water .
11 They trade water back and forth . And I ' m
12 not for sure the complexity of that thing . You ' d
13 need Duane Aranci to answer those questions .
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Do you know if the
15 ditch that ' s -- that we keep calling -- oh , what is
16 it?
17 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Water Supply and
^� 18 Storage?
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE : No , no , the Cactus --
20 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Oh , Cactus Hill .
21 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Yeah . Does that empty
22 into Black Hollow Reservoir?
23 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Well , the runoff
24 from that -- or our tailwaters all goes into Black
25 Hollow eventually , yes .
178
1 COMMISSIONER GEILE : And the reason I ' m
2 asking that is , who has the responsibility for that
3 ditch?
4 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Cactus Hill Ditch
5 belongs now to North Poudre Irrigation Company . We
6 sold that some years ago to North Poudre Irrigation
7 Company . So they ' re the -- they ' re the responsible
8 owners of that particular Cactus Hill Ditch .
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Has anybody ever
10 talked to them about the issues associated with that
11 ditch that we ' ve been hearing so much about?
12 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Yes , I think they
13 have . I think there ' s been some dialogue on that ,
14 yes .
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Thanks .
16 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Yeah .
17 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Any other questions?
18 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Yes .
19 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Just a quick
20 question . You dealt with runoff off this property
21 quite a bit . I just want to make clear , your -- is
22 your contention that this would be the water that
23 falls on this property and not foreign water coming
24 on from the east or north that would cause this
25 runoff? Is it --
179
1 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : Well , this is
2 irrigation water coming out of that -- if you look
3 there at your -- at your -- or your picture there on
4 drainage --
5 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Yes , I understand
6 that . I guess what I ' m asking , we know the
7 irrigation --
8 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : So it ' s going to
9 be --
10 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : -- will be different
11 but what about runoff water?
12 MR . CLEON KIMBERLING : It ' s runoff water .
13 It ' s both natural -- I mean from rains and from
14 irrigation . Every bit of the water that comes off
15 that place comes right down through those properties
16 that is mentioned there on your place . This is what
17 makes it a little unique and this is what I think
18 makes it very important that we -- we take that into
19 consideration and the -- the impact that you ' re going
20 to have with 4 , 000 cows up there producing 120 pounds
21 of manure a day each , it ' s going to make a tremendous
22 impact .
^ 23 Not only that , but then the health issues
24 that go along with it , whenever you go to
25 concentrating this type of , you know , livestock .
180
1 So with that , I appreciate your help ,
2 appreciate your time . Thank you very much .
3 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you . Okay .
4 Next?
5 MR . MORRISON : Before we go forward , those
6 overheads that he was showing have been marked as
7 Exhibit WW , and then he did those in sequence .
8 Within the packet , they ' re numbered 1 through 5 , just
9 for the record .
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
^
11 All right . Thank you .
12 MR . MORRISON : That clarifies it okay?
13 Thank you .
14 MR . KEITH MULLINS : Good morning . My name
15 is Keith Mullins . I live at 41545 Weld County
16 Road 15 . I live just directly across the road west
17 from the dairy .
.- 18 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : I ' m sorry , did you
19 testify last week? Last Wednesday?
20 MR . KEITH MULLINS : No , ma ' am .
21 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : I have it down that
22 he did .
23 I ' m sorry , go ahead .
24 MR . KEITH MULLINS : The first thing that I
sua
25 would like to address , the issue of the buyout has
181
1 been asked several times , and I would like to try to
2 clarify that since I was involved in it .
3 The buyout occurred from seven families
4 basically pooling resources to come up with enough
5 money to try to buy this property so that Mr . Dye
6 could go somewhere else to build his dairy . The
7 offer was made at 1 . 3 million . The offer was
8 rejected . The question was asked : Well , how much
9 more will it take? And there was no response .
10 The -- we -- we offered what we considered
11 was a fair profit . We -- we could have obviously
12 gone higher -- maybe not obviously . We could have
13 gone higher , but were not afforded the opportunity to
14 do that .
15 At any rate , the question was asked the
16 other day : How did we plan to get our money back?
17 The thought process that we used was that even if we
18 lost money on it , the amount of money that we lost
19 would be offset by the amount of devaluation we would
20 have if the dairy went in . So I hope that answers
.. 21 part of the questions .
22 I ' d like to speak about the water issue .
23 There ' s some confusion , I believe -- not that I ' m an
24 absolute expert -- but I have lived there for 30
25 years . North Weld is , obviously , going to supply the
182
1 domestic water for this dairy , for the drinking
2 water , the flushing water , whatever . North Weld has
3 decided that they can provide this water , and they
4 have their own rules and regulations and they ' re
5 hopefully capable of deciding that .
6 As far as the irrigation water is
7 concerned , it ' s a completely different situation .
8 The Cactus Hill Ditch is owned by North Poudre
9 Irrigation Company . And North Poudre and Water
10 Supply and Storage are not really affiliated . They
11 do trade water occasionally because of areas where
12 one of them has water and the other one needs it .
13 But the -- the North Poudre system is such
14 that all of us are shareholders . In almost every
15 case in that neighborhood we own enough water to
16 irrigate what land that we have . And , unfortunately ,
17 Mr . Dye does not own enough to irrigate what he is
18 intending to irrigate and will be forced to rent
19 water to make up that shortfall .
20 Now , we all , in the past , have rented water
21 from time to time because of a dry year or whatever ,
22 but , in general , we have sufficient water that we
.. 23 own . The City of Fort Collins actually owns more
24 than half of the water in the North Poudre Irrigation
25 system .
183
1 Now, one of these days because of the
2 growth there , they are going to start doing something
— 3 else with their water other than allowing farmers to
4 rent it , which is what we do at the moment . And so
5 the water -- there ' s no guarantee that rented water
6 is going to be available to do this .
7 When we were here last Wednesday , a new
— 8 site plan was placed on the overhead that had not
9 been included in the file prior to that day . So the
10 site plan that we had been looking at and , you know ,
—
11 making our statements about , had all of a sudden
12 changed . We didn ' t realize this until we looked at
— 13 it after the meeting and realized that the site plan
14 has , in my opinion , changed significantly .
15 The -- I have a -- an overhead of that --
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mr . Mullins , I hate
—
17 to do this to you , but one of the commissioners has a
— 18 speaking engagement that they have to be at at noon
19 and it is 10 till .
20 MR . KEITH MULLINS : Okay .
21 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : So at this time , I ' m
—
22 going to recess this hearing . We will reconvene
23 tomorrow and you will be the first one up .
24 MR . KEITH MULLINS : Okay .
ma
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : I hate to interrupt
184
1 your -- sorry . I hate to interrupt your testimony ,
2 but --
3 MR . KEITH MULLINS : That will be fine .
4 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : -- that ' s just the
5 way it has to go for today .
_. 6 So at this point , I will recess the hearing
7 and we will reconvene tomorrow at 10 : 00 a . m .
8 ( Hearing recessed at 11 : 50 a . m . )
9
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185
1 REPORTER ' S CERTIFICATE
2 I , Mary J . George , a Registered
3 Professional Reporter , Registered Merit Reporter ,
4 Certified Realtime Reporter , and Notary Public within
5 the State of Colorado , appointed to take the public
6 hearing , do hereby certify that the hearing was taken
7 by me at 915 10th Street , Greeley , Colorado , on
8 December 12 , 2000 ; that the proceedings were
9 thereafter reduced to typewritten form by means of
10 computer- integrated transcription ; that the
11 foregoing is an accurate transcript of the
12 proceedings at that time .
13 I further certify that I am not related to ,
14 employed by , nor of counsel for any of the parties or
15 attorneys herein , nor otherwise interested in the
16 result of the within action .
17 In witness whereof , I have affixed my
18 signature and seal this 15th day of February , 2001 .
19 My commission expires October 2 , 2002 .
20
.
21 �\Ng>..... .Fp9i�
4j
2 2 nr
NpTAgy .'�co MA Reg ster d Profession 1 Reporter
*' 'cot" Certificate of Merit Holder
.. 23 u,�9 '°UBL G �8 Certified Realtime Reporter
2 4 X‘ri10 a�11dotPat,��
25
.- PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 12,2000
Page 1
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Wilson George Court Reporters,Inc.
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