HomeMy WebLinkAbout20003327.tiff - copy
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WELD COUNTY
PUBLIC HEARING RE : DYELAND DAIRY LLC
915 10th Street
Greeley , Colorado
December 6 , 2000
( 1 : 38 p . m . - 4 : 25 p . m . )
VOLUME I
Reported by Wilson George Court Reporters
Mary J . George , RMR, CRR
Wilson George Court Reporters, Inc.
One Old Town Square, Suite 200 B, Ft. Collins, CO 80524 (970) 224-3000
303 E. 17th Avenue, Suite 700, Denver, CO 80203 (303) 861-5000
Greeley, CO (970) 353-0300 (800) 845-3001 2000-3327
2
1 INDEX
2 PAGE
"' 3 MS . JULIE CHESTER 4
MR . TREVOR JIRICEK 13
4 MR . DON CARROLL 14
. MR . TERRY DYE 14
5 MR . THOMAS HAREN 18
6 PUBLIC COMMENTS 32
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10
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13
14
.. 15
16
17
18
19
.. 20
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22
- 23
24
.. 25
3
1 WHEREUPON , the following proceedings were
2 had :
3 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . At this
4 time , we ' ll reconvene the Board of County
5 Commissioners , our hearing for December 6th .
6 Call up Docket No . 2000-72 , site specific
7 development plan and use by special review permit
^ 8 No . 1289 .
9 Mr . Morrison?
10 MR . MORRISON : Madam Chairman , this is the
11 application of Terry Dye , Dyeland Dairy , LLC , in care
12 of AgPro Environmental Services for a site specific
13 development plan use by special review No . 1289 for
14 an agricultural services establishment and a
15 livestock confinement operation , 4 , 000 head dairy ,
16 and four additional accessories to the farm dwelling
17 units in the agricultural zone district , located on
^ 18 Lot B of Recorded Exemption 2331 , in the west half of
19 Section 5 , Township 7 North , Range 67 West , and part
20 of the west half of the southeast quarter , Section 5 ,
21 Township 7 , Range 67 West , of the 6th P . M . , Weld
22 County , Colorado .
23 Notice was published November 22d , 2000 , in
24 South Weld Sun .
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . We thank
Pm,
S.
4
1 you .
2 MS . CHESTER : Good morning . Julie Chester ,
3 Department -- actually , it ' s this afternoon now . Good
4 afternoon . Julie Chester , Department of Planning
..
5 Services .
6 This application is USR 1289 , site specific
7 development plan and special review permit for an
8 agricultural services establishment for a livestock
9 confinement operation for a dairy of 4 , 000 head of
10 cattle .
11 The applicant is Terry Dye and the
12 representative is Tom Haren of AgPro Environmental
13 Services , LLC .
14 The legal description of the parcel is
15 Lot B of RE 2331 , located in part of the west half of
16 Section 5 in the southwest corner part of the south
17 half and southeast quarter and the northwest quarter
18 of the southeast quarter of Section 5 , Township 7
19 North , Range 67 West of the 6th P . M . , Weld County ,
20 Colorado .
21 This site is located east adjacent to
22 Weld County Road 15 , north of and adjacent to Weld
23 County 84 , one mile east of the Larimer County line .
24 The sign was posted for this hearing on November 22d ,
25 2000 , by planning staff .
^
5
1 11 referral agencies have reviewed this
2 case and all offered comments in favor of the
3 proposal with recommendations for conditions of
4 approval .
5 Many letters have been received from
6 interested parties both in favor of and in opposition
7 to this proposal .
8 Weld County Planning Commission is
9 recommending that this request be approved and has
10 determined that the submitted materials are in
11 compliance with Section 24 . 7 of the Weld County
12 zoning ordinance as follows : The proposal ' s
13 consistent with the Weld County comprehensive plan .
14 Agricultural Goal 1 states : Preserve prime
15 farmland for agricultural purposes which foster the
16 economic health and continuance of agriculture .
17 The USDA soils map indicates that the soils
�- 18 on the majority of the property are designated prime
19 and a small strip through the center of the parcel as
20 prime , if irrigated .
21 The proposed dairy is in agriculture use of
22 economic importance to Weld County . Agricultural
— 23 Policy 1 states agricultural zoning will be
24 established and maintained to protect and promote the
—
25 County ' s agricultural industry . The proposal will
6
1 also benefit those commercial and industrial uses
2 directly related to agriculture as well as benefit
3 the farmers in the area , who will provide feed and
4 other products to the dairy .
5 The proposal ' s consistent with the intent
6 of the district in which the use is located .
7 The property is zoned agricultural and
^ 8 Section 31 . 4 . 2 states that agricultural service
9 establishments primarily engaged in performing
10 agricultural , animal husbandry , or horticultural
11 services on a fee or contract basis , including
12 livestock confinement operations , are permitted as a
13 use by special review in the agricultural zoned
14 district .
15 The uses which will be permitted will be
16 compatible with the existing surrounding land uses .
17 Uses on adjacent properties are primarily
18 agricultural , including farm fields and pasture
19 lands . -
20 Conditions of approval and development
^
21 standards will ensure that any incompatibility will
22 be mitigated .
�- 23 As a use by right , the applicant could
24 confine 1 , 112 animals , which is 4 per acre , on this
^
25 278-acre parcel .
7
1 If this proposal is approved , the applicant
2 must abide by all State Department of Public Health
3 and Environment regulations , in addition to the
4 conditions of approval and development standards set
5 forth in this permit .
6 The conditions of approval and development
7 standards include , but are not limited to , requiring
8 the applicant to submit and receive approval and
9 operate in accordance with dust , odor , and fly
10 abatement plans , as well as a manure and wastewater
_ 11 management plan .
12 The uses which would be permitted will be
13 compatible with future development of the surrounding
14 areas permitted by the existing zoning and with the
15 future development is projected by the comprehensive
16 plan or master plan of affected municipalities .
17 This proposal is not within a 3-mile
18 referral area of any town ; however , it is within one
19 mile of Larimer County .
20 Larimer County was sent a referral for this
21 application and had no conflicts of -- with this
22 interest .
— 23 There was a letter that was passed out to
24 you that was received yesterday . It is in regard to
25 the location of the employee housing . This has been
8
_
1 negotiated with the applicants . I do have a map that
2 I can show you that shows where the new employee
3 housing will be located .
4 This way is north and this is where the
_
5 milk parlor is proposed to be . The employee housing
^
6 was located up here on Weld --
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Julie , your hand ' s
8 in the way .
9 MS . CHESTER : Sorry . Up here on Weld
^
10 Road 86 . And after some negotiation with one of the
11 property owners , they have negotiated moving the
12 employee housing down close to the milk parlor and
13 on -- that would be on the east edge of the property .
14 The Weld County Planning Commission
15 recommends the conditions of approval and development
16 standards be included with the recommendation of
17 approval .
18 The applicant and its representatives are
19 present today . And I would be glad to answer any
20 questions at this time .
21 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . Does the
22 board have any questions for Julie at this time?
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE : I do .
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Commissioner .
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Julie , there was , in
9
,. 1 reading through the testimony of the planning
2 commission , there is a -- specifically , a letter
^ 3 by -- it ' s a long letter -- Mr . Coan , I believe .
4 Yes , Mr . Coan , from Otis Coan & Stewart , LLC , made
5 several statements that the application was not
.. 6 complete . And I refer to you and , Counsel , please ,
7 step in on this , it ' s all right -- I just want to
8 make sure that what we have before us today is a
9 complete application .
10 I think that question was also asked of you
11 at the planning commission , but some of the issues
12 that are presented by Mr . Coan have to do with water ,
13 soil conditions , which would be a -- the
14 particular -- well , the soil conditions , fire
15 protection , stormwater , a vicinity map , plot plan ,
16 topography , a legal description . And also a traffic
17 study . And then various referrals to the Colorado
.. 18 Department of Public Health and Environment and the
19 Colorado Geological Survey and so forth .
20 I just wanted to make sure from your point
21 of view , and , perhaps , Counsel , from your point of
22 view , that we do have a complete application in view
.. 23 of the statements that are made in this letter . We
24 do have a complete application before us today?
25 MS . CHESTER : Well , I would like to go
10
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1 ahead and comment on that first . At the time that we
2 did receive the application , we took it in as a
3 complete application at that time . And at the
4 planning commission , the planning commission did make
5 a determination in the planning commission hearing
^ 6 that they also agreed with planning staff that it was
7 a complete application .
8 I would be glad to go through those
9 individual items if you ' d like me to , but we did make
10 the determination as a staff , and the planning
11 commission also agreed and made that same
r
12 determination --
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Made a determination
14 about every one of those items and they were
15 complete ; is that correct?
16 MS . CHESTER : Well , as far as every one of
r
17 those items , Mr . Coan submitted that to the planning
18 commission the day of the hearing . So we did not go
19 through every single one of the items that he was
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20 contending was not in compliance at that time .
21 But as far as the overall application , we
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22 did feel that it was complete when it came in . The
.. 23 planning commission did also agree with that and go
24 ahead and actually even made a motion to that effect ,
25 that it was a complete application .
11
1 I have gone through that letter from
2 Mr . Coan since the planning commission hearing and
3 still feel that it is a complete application based on
4 other applications of similar type that we ' ve brought
5 in on these same types of uses as far as the -- all
6 the issues that were brought up . It ' s a very similar
7 application as to pretty much every dairy that comes
8 in .
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Including the legal
10 description?
11 MS . CHESTER : If you would like me to , I
12 can talk about the legal description specifically .
13 In the legal description , we had a very general legal
14 description as part of the west half of that whole
15 section . And after talking with the clerk to the
_ 16 board -- basically , this actually covered the whole
17 entire area , it wasn ' t specifically spelled out .
18 At the time the application came in , we did
19 have deeds for the entire property that was Owned by
20 Mr . Dye . Through the process of putting the
^
21 application into a file and having that application
22 in the file and going to the planning commission ,
.. 23 there was a period of time that numerous people
24 looked at the case file .
25 Between the time the application came in
12
1 and the time that planning commission came about ,
2 there were things that were no longer in the file
3 that were in the file when the application came in .
4 So there were things that were missing from the file .
5 But we do have the deeds for the property
6 in the file at this time . You guys also have them as
7 part of -- as part of the record .
^ 8 COMMISSIONER GEILE : They would be on a
9 general warranty deed?
10 MS . CHESTER : Yes , we have a warranty deed
11 for the entire parcel of 278 acres .
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE : That answers my
13 question . Thank you .
14 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mr . Morrison , do you
15 have any comment on the completeness of the
16 application?
17 MR . MORRISON : Well , I think a further
18 comment -- and , basically , the ordinance reads that
19 the -- the determination of whether the application ' s
20 complete is basically the staff at the Department of
21 Planning Services . The issue -- so the argument ' s
22 slightly misdirected .
23 The burden is still on the applicant to
24 prove all those things that are represented in items
25 that go in the application , but the board doesn ' t
13
1 specifically have to rereview the application that ' s
2 been accepted .
3 So , I mean , if there ' s a deficiency in the
4 evidence , the board can act on that , but the
5 ordinance doesn ' t require the board to go back and
6 piece by piece by piece look at the application and
7 second-guess the administrative determination of
8 completeness .
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Okay . Thank you .
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay? All right .
11 Any other questions for staff?
12 Okay . Does the health department have any
13 comments they ' d like to make at this time?
14 MR . JIRICEK : Just a quick one . Trevor
15 Jiricek , Department of Health and Environment .
16 Prior to Monday , December 4th , we had not
17 received any complaints concerning the property . On
18 Monday we did receive one complaint . I received a
19 call from a concerned citizen who was concerned that
20 discharge -- potential discharge from a couple of
21 existing corrals on the property , with probably 1 to
22 200 head of cattle that currently exist , could run
23 off into a tailwater pond that happened to be --
24 appeared to be excavated into groundwater .
25 I observed that yesterday . Should this
14
1 application be approved today , we ' ll address that
2 through the conditions approval and the plat because
3 those -- those corrals are not shown on the plat , so
4 they will be removed .
5 Should it be denied , we ' ll address it
6 through written correspondence and have that problem
7 alleviated . Thank you .
8 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
9 Any questions for the health department?
10 Okay . Public works , do you have any
11 comments you ' d like to make at this time?
12 MR . CARROLL : Don Carroll , Department of
13 Public Works . No comment at this time .
14 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Questions of staff?
15 N o .
16 Would the applicant or the representative
17 like to come forward? And if you would , please state
18 your name and address for the record and make your
19 comments to the board .
20 MR . TERRY DYE : Terry Dye , own Dyecrest
21 Dairy , 1137 North County Line Road , Fort Collins ,
22 Colorado .
23 My name ' s Terry Dye . Presently own and
24 operate Dyecrest Dairy , which is a 2 , 000 head
25 operation right on the county line , but in Larimer
15
r 1 County . My wife is here . I dairy with my daughter ,
2 and her granddaughter ' s here . I have been -- I ' ve
3 owned my own dairy for 30 years now . 15 years at
4 this location . My parents dairied for 40 years
5 before they retired , and they live close by , on
6 Road 15 , in fact .
7 During the 30 years I ' ve been in business ,
8 I ' ve always thought I ran a quality operation . We ' re
9 one of the largest and presumably better registered
10 operations in the United States .
11 In 15 years at the present location , up to
12 the time I applied for this permit , I had never had a
13 complaint or a dispute with a neighbor of any kind .
14 We get 500 to a thousand visitors a year
15 from all over the world through the present operation
16 because we ' re somewhat unique . Last year , for
17 example , the U . S . Geological Survey was doing an
�- 18 international conference at the Marriott in
19 Fort Collins . They wanted to look at a dairy . They
20 picked ours . Large numbers of EPA people on there .
21 Everybody thought we ran a great , nice , clean
22 operation .
23 Basically we just think we run a good
24 operation . We think we ' ve had a good track record
25 over the last 30 years , and we ' re trying to do as
16
1 well on the new operation .
2 Thank you .
me
3 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Just a second . Does
4 the board have any comments for Mr . Dye -- or
5 questions , I ' m sorry .
—. 6 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Yeah . Mr . Dye , could
7 you give us kind of a schematic , when you bought this
8 property , what it was before you bought it . Could
9 you give us a little bit of an outline as to what
r
10 this property ' s been used for , how it ' s been used in
11 the past?
12 MR . TERRY DYE : The south 200 acres of the
13 property I bought a year-and-a-half ago from a fellow
14 named Duane Aranci . I believe Duane had owned it for
15 a great number of years and possibly even his father
16 before him . It was a farming operation with a small
17 feedlot on it , and that ' s what Trevor talked about .
^ 18 The feedlot only feeds like 6 to 800 head . And Duane
19 used to use the feedlot just for warming up calves
20 over the winter .
21 We ' ve purchased 1200 open heifers to breed
22 to stock the new dairy and so we ' ve got probably 500
23 of them there in that feedlot right now . They ' re
24 just open heifers .
25 The north 78 acres I just bought this
17
1 spring . It originally had been owned by Dorothy and
2 Richard Shields , and they had operated a small dairy ,
3 60 to 80 cows , on that dairy . And so it always had
4 been used for farm ground but there had always been
5 cattle , either a dairy or this little feedlot , on
6 that property .
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Just a couple other ,
8 if I might .
9 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Go ahead .
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE : A couple things that
.. 11 are -- that are presented in the testimony would be
12 the groundwater .
^' 13 MR . TERRY DYE : I ' d rather let Tom address
14 that because he is --
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE : And in addition to
16 that would be what ' s called the Lateral Hill -- the
17 Lateral -- I think it ' s the Lateral Hill and the
18 Cactus Hill Lateral --
19 MR . TERRY DYE : Again , if you don ' t mind ,
20 Tom has researched that exhaustively and I ' d rather
21 not get into it .
22 COMMISSIONER GEILE : And also water rights ,
23 I ' m sure Tom will get into .
24 MR . TERRY DYE : Right .
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Any other
18
^
1 questions for Mr . Dye at this time?
2 Okay . Thank you .
^ 3 MR . TERRY DYE : Thank you .
4 MR . THOMAS HAREN : Tom Haren , AgPro
5 Environmental Services , 4311 Highway 66 , Longmont ,
6 Colorado 80504 .
7 We worked with Mr . Dye ' s existing dairy for
8 the last two or three years doing all their
9 environmental monitoring , environmental services and
10 improvements . And I looked at this property with
11 Terry when he was looking at purchasing the property
12 for a potential dairy site .
13 This dairy site has a lot of good things
14 going for it as far as slope and exposure and
15 location . And we evaluated the potential for use by
16 right . And the way the property ' s currently
17 situated , there is a use by right for 1 , 112 animal
18 units , but with the way things are with dairies and
19 regulations , I ' d advised Terry to go through- the
^
20 process . Although there would be conditions applied ,
21 it would benefit him in the long run .
22 Since we ' ve submitted the application --
- Julie ' s pointed out some changes but I ' d like to
24 point out some others -- the major changes -- and we
25 talked about this in planning and zoning commission ,
19
1 we had agreed to add a berm on the west side of the
2 dairy . It ' s adjacent to the east side and along
3 Weld County Road 15 . And it would be similar --
4 we ' ve tried to buffer the south side of the property
5 several hundred feet .
6 When we removed the -- some of the -- there
7 were beets on this farm and we have removed those and
8 we took some of that topsoil and have already created
9 the berm that ' s along the south side , and we plan to
10 line the top of that and the sides of those berms
11 with trees . We have agreed to do the same type of
12 berm to the west to allow some additional buffering .
13 • We met with Miss Sonja Stonestreet after
14 planning and zoning commission , and her concerns were
15 the location of the employee housing . Her property
16 is currently under contract and she had some
17 concerns , as did her potential purchaser . And we met
18 with Miss -- Miss Stonestreet and agreed to move the
19 employee housing to the location that Julie Chester
20 pointed out on the map , basically , adjacent to the
21 north side of the milking parlor .
22 We ' ll use the same access that ' s
23 delineated . It will be next to all the remaining
24 infrastructure , so there will be no activities up on
25 the northern end of this property . And we provided
20
1 that information . We ' ve worked with Miss Sonja
2 Stonestreet ' s attorney , Jim Martell , and we ' ve
— 3 actually talked to the purchaser -- or the one that
4 has the contract on Miss Sonja Stonestreet ' s
5 property , to their satisfaction . Those letters are
6 in the file . I won ' t go over them in detail beyond
7 this .
8 And the existing feedlots and corrals and
9 things that are on these properties , if this
10 application is approved , we have plans to remove all
., 11 of those -- all of that old infrastructure . It --
12 it ' s not in a great location . It doesn ' t have any of
13 the -- the current and recent environmental controls
14 and things that are necessary . And it doesn ' t
15 integrate with what we ' ve planned on -- on the
16 remainder of the dairy , so those will all be removed .
17 In -- in the application , there ' s , along
18 with the application materials , a comprehensive
19 manure and wastewater management plan that is
20 required by the Colorado Confined Animal Feeding and
21 Control Regulations and the State Health Department .
22 Along with that is the nuisance plan covering odor ,
23 dust , flies , and our proposal for abatement , and
24 additional supporting material .
^ 25 And I ' d be willing to answer any questions
21
1 about those . I don ' t have a specific formal
2 presentation on either one of those plans .
3 Regarding the completeness of the
4 application , we were asked in the planning and zoning
5 commission our view of the application . And while
6 I ' ve yet to submit a perfect application , I ' m sure
7 that some errors can be found . This application in
8 our judgment of everything that ' s been submitted and
9 reviewing the zoning regulations , was complete .
10 However , I did find one error that had been pointed
11 out .
12 On the soils map , the soils map that was
13 submitted with the application in the soils map
14 section was incorrect . However , in the manure and
15 wastewater management plan , the correct soils map was
16 applied . So there were -- there were two different
17 soils maps in two different places in the
^ 18 application . So there was a correct soils map . And
19 we went further delineating our explanation Of the
^
20 types of soils as far as this design .
21 And , second , is as soon as Miss Chester
22 informed us that she couldn ' t locate a copy of the
.. 23 deed in the county file , we supplied the County
24 with -- with the forms that were necessary that
25 seemed to be missing from the county files .
22
1 So at this time , I don ' t have a formal
2 presentation , but would be willing to address any
3 questions .
4 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Commissioner .
5 COMMISSIONER GEILE : If I might , question
6 about the water : Could you explain how -- where
7 they ' re going to get the water for the operation?
8 And then maybe carry that , are they going to do land
9 application with the lagoons or how -- what ' s going
10 to happen there?
11 MR . THOMAS HAREN : Sure . The water on this
12 site , the manure management plan details the drainage
13 area of this dairy , and the drainage area includes
14 any stormwater runoff that would come in contact with
^
15 manure , pens , bedding , feed stuffs . So basically the
16 compost area south to the berm and from the milk
17 parlor west to the lagoons .
18 The drainage area that we ' ve calculated
19 includes 78 acres . The regulations require us to
20 design the structures for a 25-year 24-hour storm .
21 Our calculations of a 25-24 in 78 acres is 15 . 3
22 acre-feet of water that would need to be contained
23 during a storm event . In addition , the processed
24 water from the dairy that would come from washing the
�" 25 milk tanks and flushing the parlor floor .
23
1 We took numbers from Terry ' s management in
2 his existing operation , which does not flush . Some
3 dairies use flush systems , some dairies use
4 recirculating flush systems . And by that , I mean
5 they flush the feed alleys and that ' s -- other cattle
6 traffic areas on the facility . We do not plan to do
7 this .
8 The processed wastewater we ' re calculating
9 at 14 acre-feet per year . It ' s 12 , 500 gallons per
10 day outlined in the manure management plan . So
11 you ' re looking at 30 acre-feet produced , and our
12 storage area , as designed , is 78 . 3 acre-feet .
13 Basically , we ' ve added this facility out to
14 have almost a year of storage without land
15 application . But if land application is necessary ,
16 we ' ve got to dewater these lagoons , if we have a
17 25-year 24-hour storm . Our calculations show it
18 would take approximately 90 acres to dewater from a
19 catastrophic storm event of that nature . But we also
20 ran out average years ' precipitation for 10 years ,
21 and the average data on that indicates an annual
22 management application of 2 acre-feet of water is
.. 23 what would need to be applied .
24 There ' s 78 acres flood-irrigated ground
25 immediately adjacent to the north of this and in
24
1 total , if you count some of the buffer areas and
2 other farm ground , there ' s 110 total irrigated acres
3 that we would be able to work with .
4 And as far as any other water , we ' ve taken
5 the approach that the less water at this facility ,
6 the better , as far as abuse . It costs money for us
7 to get the water , it costs money for us to manage the
8 water .
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Are you going to get
10 all the water from the water district or do you own
11 some water rights?
12 MR . THOMAS HAREN : I believe Mr . Dye has
13 some -- some water . I don ' t know if he ' s been
14 renting it or actually owns it , but as far as the
15 dairy use , the water that the cattle will be drinking
16 and the water that goes to the milking parlor will
17 all be from North Weld Water District .
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Do you have a
19 commitment with that?
20 MR . THOMAS HAREN : We sat down and had
21 negotiations with North Weld , and we have a letter
22 that says they can supply us . We went over the
23 infrastructure improvements that would be required ,
24 we went over the water volumes that would be
25 required , the options of renting that water or
25
1 purchasing that water . And I believe for an
2 investment of this nature , Mr . Dye and myself have
3 come to the conclusion that purchasing that water is
4 the way to go . It ' s a substantial investment in the
5 area of $400 , 000 , I believe . But if this application
6 is approved , Mr . Dye has the means to go forward
7 with -- with that type of commitment .
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Can you talk a little
9 bit about the high water level , or what the water
10 level is?
11 MR . THOMAS HAREN : Well , the high water
12 level , it ' s -- there ' s a lot of factors that are
13 affecting water in this area . And the static
14 groundwater level and water through this site are --
15 I want to speak about those in two different ways :
16 One , the soil types and perched water . Now the soils
17 map I want to refer you to is in the manure and
18 wastewater management plan on page 13 and subsequent
19 pages .
^
20 And if you look at the site , there are two
21 areas . They ' re labeled as No . 65 and 64 . 65 is in
22 the far southeast corner of the site and 64 is
23 actually up north of where the composting area would
24 be . And those are some outcroppings right next to
25 the Cactus Hill Lateral .
26
.. 1 Those are listed as a needle and soil type ,
2 needle and loam , and they ' re characterized by
3 some shale outcroppings . Now , those outcroppings are
4 several inches deep and in this they ' re talking 40
5 inches or below in the USDA Soil Survey .
6 And what happens is the ditch seeps , you ' ll
7 have that seep water that will find those shale
8 layers and follow them . We ' ve talked with our
9 foundation engineers and our dirt work guys and we ' re
10 going to end up , to protect the dairy foundation of
11 the milk parlor , putting in some french drain
12 systems . And as a matter of fact , I think there was
13 a letter that was readdressed with the local soil
14 conservation district and they recommended the same
15 kind of strategy .
.. 16 Now , as far as the lagoons or the pens ,
17 themselves , we ' re not finding those bedrock -- or
18 those shale outcroppings further down on the site .
19 The -- they will have no effect on the pen areas and
20 that -- everything between the milking parlor and the
21 lagoons .
22 Now , on the lagoons , we were very
.� 23 particular when we were looking at this site before
24 we -- we got into this application -- and my company
25 owns a drilling machine and we went out and drilled
27
1 in the area of the lagoons .
2 The soils in that area are listed as -- an
3 ascalon loam , that ' s probably some of the heaviest
4 soils that are on the site . And we ' ve -- we selected
5 that area not only for the natural drainage but
6 because of the soil types that we have , and we were
7 looking for groundwater and things of that nature .
8 Now , just immediately north of those
9 lagoons , there is a natural drainage through the
10 property where we see from many years of irrigation ,
11 and a lot of other subterranean features , there is a
12 lot of perched water in that area .
13 Now , we went to the State Engineer ' s Office
14 and pulled the water wells for this section and every
15 section around it , and we found an indication of one
16 well immediately east -- I don ' t know how immediate
17 east , it was listed in the quarter adjacent -- that
18 had water listed at 10 feet .
19 Now , Mr . Dye has a well on this property
r
20 that he ' s purchased and it would be down near the
21 southern lagoon , and it ' s a shallow well as well .
22 And he ' s got water , but the well does not yield at
23 all . It ' s almost a nonusable well . And that ' s
24 because , I believe , whoever put those wells in hit
25 the perched water and stopped . All the other wells
28
1 that are listed in that area are in the range of 30
2 feet and below as far as well depth . And that is to
3 the west and to the south and southwest , which is
4 some of the predominant water patterns .
5 Basically we have not found anything in our
6 engineering that gives us concern for either the
7 location of the dairy parlor , the dairy itself , or
8 the dairy lagoons . This lagoon right here is the
9 primary lagoon . And it ' s listed as 16 feet total
10 depth .
11 Now , I want to let you know that that ' s not
12 16 feet below the existing grade . We ' ve got a lot of
�- 13 dirt we ' re moving around on that site and some of
14 what comes out of the hole is built up on the banks .
15 So that is -- that is not a 16-foot cut below grade
16 at that site .
17 This lagoon is the primary storage lagoon
18 for stormwater . It ' s only 4 feet deep . We have a
19 6-foot total depth on that lagoon with 4 feet of
20 water . Now , again , that is not a 6-foot cut . By the
21 time we ' re through with the completion of a lagoon of
22 that nature , we may actually only be 2 feet below the
23 existing grade . And the dirt that came out of that
24 2 feet was used to build the sides up around the
25 remaining part of the lagoons .
29
1 So we ' ve taken very careful consideration
2 and done very careful study of the soil types , the
3 water issues and integrated that into the design of
4 this facility .
5 COMMISSIONER GEILE : There was one other ,
6 if I may . It has to do with noxious weeds on the
7 property .
8 MR . THOMAS HAREN : I believe the noxious
9 weeds , there were some pictures in a letter that was
10 submitted in planning and zoning , and a lot of the
11 noxious weed photographs were probably taken , I
12 assume , in the old feedlot area . If any of you have
13 experienced feedlots that haven ' t been used , they
14 tend to spring some kosha . I think some of the
15 other -- the other photographs were in some of the
_ 16 county right-of-way .
17 Mr . Dye lives a mile east of this property .
18 As he stated , he ' s just recently purchased this
19 property and -- you know , I -- after spending time
20 with many other farms and ranches , I would not
21 consider that any of them are weed-free , and the
22 weeds that I ' ve seen on this site I would not
-. 23 consider out of hand .
24 Now , we do not mow the county right—of—way .
25 And Mr . Dye hasn ' t spent a lot of time over there
30
1 when he first purchased the site , but since he ' s been
2 working with this site he has put a lot of time and
3 effort into making some improvements already beyond
4 the plan for the dairy .
5 COMMISSIONER GEILE : I just have one other
6 question .
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Sure .
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Just one last one . I
9 would like to read this out of Mr . Coan ' s letter that
10 was presented to us that was dated -- for the record ,
11 dated October 17th , where he talks about the water .
12 And it ' s on page -- specifically , on page 3 of that
-- 13 letter , where he says , The applicant has indicated he
14 will need approximately 42 -- well , it ' s roughly
15 42 . 1 million gallons of water annually . This equals
16 184 . 54 acre-feet of water that would need to be
17 dedicated to the district at the rate of $ 14 , 000 per
18 acre foot of water . The applicant would need to pay
19 the district a little over 2 . 5 , $ 2 . 6 million :
20 That was the reason for the water question .
21 MR . THOMAS HAREN : I think those water
22 numbers are -- are extrapolated . Our meetings with
.. 23 the water district , we took them our plan , we took
24 them our water needs for -- for dairy cattle
25 consumption . And a milking cow will use about 30
31
1 gallons -- one that is lactating and being milked
2 actively will use 30 , 35 gallons drinking water . The
3 milking parlor is one of the minimal use water
4 dairies that we ' ve ever designed .
5 In our negotiations with the water
6 district , it ' s going to cost Mr . Dye about 400 , 000 to
7 get the improvements and the water into that
^ 8 facility . It ' s a substantial cost , but I have a hard
9 time seeing where it would be $2 million to get water
10 to this facility . There ' s too many dairies out
11 there that are on similar systems or even North Weld
12 systems that we ' ve expanded and that we have
13 permitted , for me to really rationalize Mr . Coan ' s
14 number .
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Thank you .
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Any other questions
17 at this time for Mr . Haren?
18 No . Do you have anyone else that is
19 representative --- just a second , please --
20 representative of the applicant that would like to
21 speak at this time?
22 MR . THOMAS HAREN : Not at this time , no .
._ 23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . So you ' re
24 done with your presentation?
25 MR . THOMAS HAREN : Yes .
32
,^ 1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you . All
2 right . This is a public hearing . Before we start
3 the public hearing , I would just like to inform
4 everyone , first of all , that we will try and give as
5 much time as possible to the public so that you all
6 will have the opportunity to be heard .
7 We would ask , though , in essence of time
8 and -- that you do not duplicate or be redundant of
9 comments . It ' s perfectly fine and acceptable that if
10 you agree with a person who has testified before you
11 that you simply stand up and say that you agreed with
12 them . And we definitely would appreciate it if you
•- 13 would do that .
14 So at this point , it is the public hearing
15 and is there anyone in the audience who would like to
16 come forward? And if so , you ' ll need to come to the
17 microphone , state your name and address for the
�. 18 record , and then make your comments to the board .
19 So , if you ' d come forward .
20 MR . MIKE GOSS : Hello . Mike Goss , 6715
21 West 28th Street , Greeley , 80634 .
22 I ' d like to speak in favor of Terry Dye .
23 He runs a first-rate operation . I used to work for
24 Dairy Specialists as a route salesman . I was on
25 practically every dairy in the state for about six
33
1 years of my life , once a month , every month . And he
2 runs one of the finest dairies that there is in the
3 state as far as being well-managed and well-kept .
4 I heard a little bit of a question about
5 weeds on the new facility . Knowing the way his old
., 6 facility ' s kept up , probably if there ' s even stuff on
7 the County ' s ground he will probably be taking care
8 of those as well .
9 It ' s probably one of the -- Terry probably
10 has an opportunity to produce more milk , which he
11 would probably like to take advantage of . Dairying
12 has changed so much over the last , probably , 10 , 15 ,
13 20 years . The smaller dairies are no longer
14 feasible , economical . It used to -- Terry ' s
15 grandfather probably got paid as much or more for his
16 milk than Terry does right now . Therefore , numbers
17 are -- are it .
18 Where his parents and grandparents probably
19 used to make , you know , a few dollars a day on a cow ,
20 Terry probably makes a few cents a day on a cow .
21 So -- and a dairy that is in close proximity to where
22 the milk will be used , which is the consumers , the
23 consumer base , Denver , Fort Collins , Longmont ,
24 Boulder , is the most economical way to go . As far
25 as , you know, like I said before , the dairy that
34
1 Terry runs , I ' m sure this will be identical , it will
2 be well-managed and well-cared for and he ' ll be a
3 good neighbor .
4 It ' s probably been a shock to him in some
5 cases , the neighbors , that he ' s been real neighborly
6 with , talked across the fence with , allowed them to
7 use his facilities for different things , would stand
8 up and question what he ' s doing . I -- I know that
9 feeling a little bit today , myself .
10 But I just think that he should be allowed
—
11 to go forward and produce milk so that he can feed --
12 feed his neighbors as cheaply and as high quality a
13 product as they would demand .
14 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
15 MR . GOSS : Thank you .
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Any questions ?
17 Thank you .
18 All right , anyone else? If you would ,
19 please , just come right up to the microphone :
20 If there ' s someone else who would like to
21 speak next , if you would come up to one of these
22 chairs in the first row , that way we can kind of keep
23 the hearing moving , that would be appreciative .
24 MS . RUTH PRIEST : I ' m Ruth Priest ,
25 7690 Weld County Road 84 , Fort Collins , 80524 .
35
1 I wrote an eight- to nine-page letter . I
2 hope it got some review . I delivered it here about
3 five weeks ago . Our home is going to be right here ,
4 right across the road from the dairy with only the
5 500-foot strip between our home and the dairy .
6 I was born in Galeton , Colorado , and I
7 worked in California for about 40 years and dreamed
8 of coming back to Colorado . And I ' ve spent the last
9 eight years developing a farm, building a house and
10 barn for 300 flocks of sheep , which we are still
11 maintaining .
12 I ' d like to get some perspective on what
13 we ' re talking about in increasing the dairy size from
14 the present , what I understood to be a thousand cow
15 dairy , to a 4 , 000-cow . But let that be .
16 The limit -- the right-to-farm limit would
17 be 1100 cattle on that amount of land . And that
18 really exceeds the ability of the farm , or the land ,
19 to produce feed or to receive the waste material .
^
20 But if we increase from 1100 to 4 , 000 , it ' s
21 as if I suddenly became 25 feet tall . That ' s the
22 difference in the size between the present dairy --
23 or the allowable right-to-farm animals and what
24 Mr . Dye ' s proposing .
25 And the number of 1100 cows on 200 acres ,
36
1 as I say , is the absolute maximum that is allowed
2 under the right-to-farm , so we ' re going well over
3 that . I don ' t know of any case where a facility of
4 this size has been built after other people have
5 built beautiful homes , invested their total net worth
6 and their whole life around those homes .
7 I don ' t know of any case where a dairy has
8 been brought in as close as this dairy will be to our
9 home and at least 5 or 6 , or possibly 10 or 12
10 others , that have all been there for at least 10
11 years .
12 The -- for more perspective in terms of the
13 water requirements , we did all these figures on the
14 amount of water required and the cost , and unless
^
15 Mr . Dye has some special advantage , it would come to
16 several million dollars if he pays the same price
17 that all of the rest of us have had to pay for our
18 water taps . And the -- that needs to be
19 substantiated , I think , and looked into .
20 The estimated requirements for a cow , I ' ve
21 understood , was 50 gallons a day of pure domestic
22 water . And this is equivalent to the development --
23 bringing in 4 , 000 cows would be about equal to a city
24 of 4 , 000 people , because each person is known to use
25 roughly 50 gallons of water a day . So we ' re actually
37
1 bringing in the need for 4 , 000 people in terms of the
2 water requirements in pure , refined water .
3 And in terms of the sewage disposal , this
4 gets more interesting , there was quite a lot said
5 this morning , I thought , very interesting , about the
_ 6 odor and the dust and the -- and noise wasn ' t
7 mentioned , but the general pollution of sewage and
8 odor and air .
9 And in terms of sewage disposal , a cow
10 weighs probably 10 times what a person weighs . Their
11 waste material will be at least 10 times that of a
12 person ' s waste material . But there won ' t be any
13 sewage disposal or treatment plant on this place . It
14 will be on the ground . And the only -- the only way
15 that the -- the vapors , the nitrates , and all of the
16 pesticides that will be poured on this to control the
17 mites and the flies , the only way those are going to
^ 18 escape that property is through the air . And that
19 air will be drifting over our home and into our rooms
20 24 hours a day forever .
21 And unlike a feedlot , there won ' t be any
22 relief . The dairy will be there 12 months out of the
._ 23 year . So we will be breathing the volatile materials
24 from a sewage plant which would be equivalent to a
25 city of something like 40 to 80 , 000 people , but
38
1 untreated . It will all come into the air eventually .
2 And you certainly don ' t want it going into
SOS
3 the groundwater . There ' s no other way it can go
4 except into the air that we ' re going to be breathing .
5 And it ' s -- could be claimed that some waste may be
6 retained by the compost , but that ' s all going to have
7 to be hauled away in semi truckloads .
8. And just to give a little more perspective ,
9 the amount of feed required to be hauled into this
10 will require the production of 16 square miles of hay
11 production , good , profitable hay production , and
12 that -- there isn ' t that much in that whole area . So
13 to be a place for other farmers to sell their crops
14 is unreal .
15 It ' s already been developed as rural
16 housing and everyone is using their own feed and
17 returning their own fertilizer to the soil . That ' s
18 how it ' s being done .
19 But some -- and as I mentioned , added --
20 added to the waste material will be literally tons of •
21 pesticides poured on that land which will eventually
22 drift over to ours . And there ' s no city anywhere
23 that would put a waste disposal site , which this is ,
24 in the center of -- of a nice housing development .
25 But that ' s what ' s happening here .
39
1 And I think when you hear from many of the
2 rest of us , just how close we ' re going to be to
3 this , I -- there ' s -- it ' s hard to imagine that many
4 homes that close to any kind of waste disposal site .
5 And , anyway , our home represents a major
., 6 part of our net worth , and it ' s been my total effort
7 for the last eight years , and it was approved , we
8 went through all of the approvals of the county
9 planning department . We were never warned that this
10 could happen to us . There was never a word that we
11 could have a factory feedlot right across the road .
12 And so I ' ll leave it to you to choose
13 between Mr . Dye ' s ambitions and all of the others '
14 hopes and homes , because it is a choice between this
15 dairy and the happy homes of many , many people within
16 a mile of this operation .
17 And it ' s a choice of -- of one type of
18 productive farming over another . And I would say
19 that we bring in more taxes to the County and more
20 profits to the local retailers than the dairy will .
21 In all of our operations , we deal with local
22 merchants in our purchase of animal supplies and we
23 are able to develop animals and -- and farming
24 activities which cannot be developed in a larger
25 operation . So it ' s a competition between one very
40
1 large operation and many small ones . But we all are
2 farmers and we all are invested in this .
3 I shouldn ' t go on too much longer . Perhaps
4 I should give to the rest , I ' m sure they will say
5 much of what I ' ve said , but looking forward to 5 or
6 10 years , it ' s almost certain that the pressures for
7 more rural development will occur .
8 We ' re in the -- we ' re within reach of two
9 university campuses . That makes it a valuable piece
10 of property in itself . And farming prices are
11 unreal . Farming on the grand scale of raising grains
12 and livestock is a vision we all have , but it ' s just
13 a vision . It hasn ' t paid its own way for 30 years .
14 It was only 10 years ago that the United States
15 Government bought out dairies all across the
16 United States because of overproduction .
17 They were paid to go out of business . And
18 the thing has not changed since that time . Nothing
19 has changed . The profits in dairies are as marginal
20 as they were 10 years ago . And as for the advantages
21 of size , it ' s very hard to find a real basis for
22 advantage of increasing in size economically .
.. 23 But this dairy is , in fact , a preparation
24 for a high density development in the future . The
25 pressures are in those directions and we should plan
41
._ 1 for it . That is wonderfully valuable country for the
2 whole of the United States as a place to go and
3 experience the kind of life that is often referred to
4 in the comprehensive plan as an unrealistic vision .
5 It ' s not unrealistic , it ' s very real . It ' s far
6 realer -- more real than the unrealistic vision
7 people have of continuing large-scale farming .
8 40 percent -- or over half of the dairy
9 products in the United States are shipped overseas .
^
10 We only -- we use less than half of what we need --
^
11 or what we use . And so it ' s hard to say why -- why
12 it ' s so important to have one very , very large dairy
13 in the midst of -- of wonderful homes . Okay .
14 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay .
15 MS . RUTH PRIEST : And I think I ' ll leave it
16 at that .
17 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Great .
18 MS . RUTH PRIEST : Thank you .
19 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you . - All
20 right . Great .
21 As we ' re moving along in the public
22 testimony , I would definitely appreciate , first of
._ 23 all , if you do not duplicate or be redundant . Make
24 sure that your comments are to the board , and also
25 the relevance of your comments need to be -- they
42
1 need to be relevant to the case that ' s before the
2 board .
3 Is there a reason why you ' re moving that
4 all the way back there?
5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Well , would you like
6 to see it? I was going to move this one --
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . I just wanted
8 to know .
9 MS . CHESTER : That little dot is --
^
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : He ' s apparently
11 going to move this up .
12 MS . LINDA RUSSELL : I will start .
13 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : If you would ,
14 please , state your name and address for the record .
^
15 And you can pull that microphone down if you ' d like ,
^
16 so it ' s not right there . Okay . Thank you .
17 MS . LINDA RUSSELL : I ' m Linda Russell . I
18 live at 41695 Weld County Road 15 , Fort Collins ,
19 which is this little dot right there . We have a
20 10-acre parcel .
21 30 years ago --
22 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Excuse me , I ' m
23 sorry .
24 MR . MORRISON : "That little dot" isn ' t
25 going to work on the record .
43
�. 1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : She gave us her
2 address . It ' s located immediately across the road
3 or --
4 MS . LINDA RUSSELL : Right here .
5 MR . MORRISON : So it ' s to the north and --
6 MS . LINDA RUSSELL : This is County Road 15 .
7 MR . MORRISON : Thanks .
8 MS . LINDA RUSSELL : It would be --
9 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : North?
10 MS . LINDA RUSSELL : About a quarter mile
11 from the holding ponds .
12 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Quarter mile
13 north of the holding ponds , approximately .
14 Thank you .
15 MS . LINDA RUSSELL : Approximately . 30
16 years ago , when we were searching for a place to
17 build our home and raise a family , we picked our
.- 18 place on County: Road 15 for several reasons : We both
19 had jobs in Fort Collins but we liked Weld County
20 because it seemed to be more agricultural . That was
21 the environment we wanted for our children to grow up
22 in . Also , we liked the protective covenants that
... 23 were placed on this quarter section , at that time it
24 was divided .
25 These covenants said there could be no
44
1 mobile homes , no noisy operations , and although we
2 could have animals , we could not have animals in such
3 a manner that it would be a commercial operation .
4 With these covenants in place , that ' s the
5 way we felt development would go in this area . I
6 realize those are covenants that are specific to my
7 place , but we expected that maybe that would be the
8 way the area was going .
9 Now , this special review permit asked for
10 four mobile homes , noise levels in the light
11 industrial zone , and 4 , 000 cows . With that many cows
12 and a light industrial noise level , I think that
13 means this is a commercial operation , not an
14 agricultural operation .
15 And while the surrounding properties may be
16 zoned agricultural , that is not necessarily their use
17 or the way that we are being taxed . The land
18 directly south of the proposed dairy site is
19 unplatted development . A minor subdivision is within
20 half a mile of the site . And now just this month
21 I ' ve received a letter from the county assessor ' s
22 office and it looks like my property is going to be
.. 23 taxed as a residential .
24 For years we have watched with dread the
25 approaching development but realized that is going to
45
1 happen whether we like it or not . That ' s one reason
2 why we wanted to buy a minimum of 10 acres so that it
3 would ensure we have a little bit of elbow room
4 around us as the development crept in .
^
5 Development is not only coming from the
6 direction of Fort Collins , but also from Windsor and
7 Severance . Within the last six , eight weeks , there ' s
8 been many articles in the paper . Fort Collins is now
9 looking to the northeast for their future
10 development . Greeley continues to grow further and
11 further west . And Severance is Colorado ' s 4th
12 fastest growing city , 19th fastest growing in the
13 nation .
14 Paragraph D on page 2 of the resolution for
15 recommendation says the -- this proposal is not
16 within three miles of any town . Maybe not , but it is
17 four miles from the Belmont Farm Subdivision , a gated
18 subdivision , which if I remember correctly , is within
19 Severance city limits because I believe they- extend
20 to Highway 14 .
21 Paragraph D also says the use must be
22 compatible with future development of the surrounding
23 area and the future development as projected . Last
24 Saturday ' s Tribune said some of you are involved with
25 total Front Range planning and not just Weld County ,
46
1 so you are well aware that western Weld County is not
2 like the -- is not the same throughout the county .
'- 3 That doesn ' t mean that one area is good and one area
4 is bad , it ' s just that they ' re different .
5 I don ' t think residential zoning is that
6 far in the future for this neighborhood . Remington
7 Place is one-half mile from the proposed dairy ,
8 Linden Ridge Subdivision is 2 miles to the west ,
9 Trappers Point , 2-1 / 2 miles away , Belmont Farms ,
10 4 miles east , and the 114 lot Soaring Eagle
11 Subdivision , 4 miles to the south , which just got
12 its approval in October . I also believe there ' s a
13 development proposed just one-half mile to the north .
14 A large dairy is not compatible in this
15 area . If you look at a list of the surrounding
16 property owners , you will notice that almost all
17 properties are smaller than the proposed dairy site .
-- 18 For those of us : who live between Colorado -- County
19 Road 13 and County Road 15 , it will be like living in
20 the middle of a 6 , 000-cow dairy . It won ' t make any
_ 21 difference which way the wind blows , we will get the
22 dust , the insects , and the odor and the traffic
23 between two sites .
24 I understand that with this special use
^
25 permit , the dairy will have to meet required
—
47
1 regulations and could be fined for any infractions .
2 But what good is a fine or even a shutdown after the
3 damage is already done? A drunken driver may be
4 fined or even do jail time , but that does not bring
5 back accident victims .
6 With this proposed dairy site uphill from
7 and close to so many houses , the potential for
8 problems is great . When we bought our place , this
9 was our investment for the future . I would hope that
10 these 30 years have not been for naught . Our
11 daughters have a wonderful place for their childhood ,
12 but I wonder , what is in the future for our three
13 grandchildren who love to be outdoors when they visit
14 Grampa and Gramma ' s?
15 Thank you .
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Sure . Thank you .
17 MR . BILL CHENG : Bill Cheng , 6514
.- 18 Weld County Road 86 , 80524 .
19 I ' m here to urge the disapproval of the
20 4 , 000 head dairy farm operation proposed by Mr . Terry
21 Dye . And I believe the establishment of such an
22 operation will impact the quality of life to current
23 residents as a result of environmental impact and
24 changes in character and flavor of the neighborhood .
25 It will also lower our property values .
—
48
1 Currently , Mr . Dye ' s operating a dairy farm
2 about 1 / 8 of a mile west of my residence . Now ,
3 although it was stated in his application for the new
4 dairy farm that activities will occur primarily
5 during daylight hours , well , that being many times I
6 was awakened by backup alarms of front loaders from
7 his current operation . So if this proposal was
8 approved , the environmental impact pertaining to the
9 noise level will be increased .
10 And in my neighborhood , as my -- as the
11 previous speaker pointed out , is mainly made of small
12 family farms and ranches . The introduction of a
13 4 , 000 head dairy will ultimately alter the character
14 and the flavor of the neighborhood . And together
15 with the proposed housing for accessory employees at
16 the northwest corner of the proposed dairy , it will
17 impact the quality of life and lower the property
18 values in the neighborhood .
19 I ' m not an expert in retention ponds or --
20 or -- and such , so I ' m just going to leave that
21 discussions to others .
22 I just wanted to emphasize the quality of
23 life issue and urge the rejection of this proposal
24 for the preservation of the neighborhood .
25 Thanks for your time .
49
1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Sure . Thank you .
2 Okay .
3 MR . DAVID HOCK : David Hock , 6500
4 Weld County Road 86 .
5 The two previous speakers kind of stole my
6 thunder a little bit in the sense that I have the
7 very same concerns . I ' m presently located exactly a
8 half a mile east of Mr . Dye ' s current dairy . If the
9 proposed dairy is built , I would be then located a
10 half mile to the west of that , once again , being
11 located in between 6 , 000 head of cattle . I currently
12 am affected by , certainly , odor and noise , primarily
13 if -- if we have a west wind .
14 The effect , if this proposed dairy goes
15 through , is that if I get an east wind , I ' m going to
16 be affected by his new dairy ; if there ' s a westerly
17 wind I ' m going to be affected by his old dairy . That
18 concerns me greatly in the sense that my quality of
19 life , or if , in fact , some day down the future I ever
20 sold the property , I guess I would be limited to be
21 able to basically sell it on a day when we have a
22 south or north wind .
23 Inherent in that , I certainly believe that
24 there ' s a value or a diminution of value of
25 properties by virtue of the dairy this size .
50
1 Certainly the people that are close to the dairy are
2 going to be impacted much more significantly than me
�. 3 but I certainly believe I would be impacted , too ,
4 once again , if the wind is blowing in the wrong
5 direction .
6 Lastly , I see this -- I ' m a strong
7 proponent of agriculture , both by background ,
8 education , as well as work experience . I ' m very
9 supportive of his right by use . Even though I would
10 not be wild about having a dairy on each side of me ,
11 I support that right . I do not support a right
12 that ' s -- or his request for almost four times that
13 amount . I see that simply as a benefit to one party
14 or his family to the detriment of many people in my
15 neighborhood as well as myself and my family .
16 Thank you .
17 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you .
._ 18 Okay . : Next .
19 MS . JEANNE GELVIN : My name is Jeanne
20 Gelvin . I reside at 40719 Remington Road ,
21 Fort Collins , Colorado . I ' m in Weld County . I live a
22 half a mile south of the proposed dairy site .
23 And I ask for your understanding if -- if
24 me and my neighbors seem passionate or overzealous ,
25 but this issue affects our homes and our very lives .
51
1 Less than two years ago you approved a
2 minor subdivision on our property called Remington
3 Place . The County required improvements such as a
4 nice entryway , landscaped open space , and fire
5 requirements . These were all good things because it
6 not only approved -- improved the value of our
7 property , but that of our neighbors and our
8 community .
9 If this industrial-sized dairy is approved ,
10 everything you required us to do on our property will
11 be negated because it ' s not compatible with our
12 community . The lights from such a large dairy will
13 be seen from our property as -- also from many other
14 properties surrounding , and it will be like living at
15 a shopping mall .
16 I also wondered when -- when our
17 subdivision went through , we were required , very
.� 18 clearly stated by Poudre Fire Authority , what we had
19 to do . The requirements were spelled out . In
^ 20 Mr . Dye ' s proposal , it says the recommended -- this
21 was recommended by Planning and it states -- and I ' m
22 reading right from this -- the applicant shall
.. 23 attempt to address the concerns of the Poudre Fire
24 Authority as outlined in a letter dated
25 September 13th , 2000 . Evidence of such shall be
ppm
52
1 provided to the Department of Planning Services .
2 I guess I don ' t understand why we were
3 " required" and he is allowed to " attempt . " That ' s a
4 question I ' d like answered sometime .
5 Another thing , it ' s been my experience that
., 6 workers on dairies are usually paid minimum or
7 slightly above minimum wages . These workers --
ma 8 although this would provide jobs , many times these
9 workers will be on county assistance , state
10 assistance programs , and chances are they will be
11 living in Weld Oounty and Greeley . Fort Collins has
12 pretty much become out of the range of minimum wage
13 workers to live in .
14 Now , although this has been the experience
15 of us and some residents in Phillips County where
16 they had a lot of hog farms in there , in the
17 beginning it seemed like it was going to provide a
18 lot of jobs but, what the taxpayers have found is that
19 it cost them more in schools , roads , other things so
20 the County -- the taxpayers ended up paying more and
21 the County was actually at a loss for the facilities
22 such as these .
23 Now , I realize Mr . Dye would make a profit
24 at this , although he does live in Larimer County .
^
25 Royal Crest Dairy made profit from this . They are
^
^
53
1 in , I think , Boulder County over in Longmont . But I
2 would appreciate if someone could explain to me how
3 this operation of this size would be good for me , my
4 neighborhood , and even Weld County . I ask you to
5 take this under consideration .
6 Thank you .
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you . Okay .
8 Next .
9 MS . WENDY MULLINS : My name is Wendy
^
10 Mullins and I live at 41545 Weld County Road 15 .
11 Let ' s see . Right here . I know that ' s not going to
12 help you if I point to the dot .
13 But we ' re right across -- we ' ve lived in
14 the same house for the last 30 years , right across
15 the road from the proposed dairy . And during that
16 time , the farms in the area have been allowed to
17 break into smaller parcels and more and more people
18 have been included in our neighborhood .
19 The question that is usually asked- when a
20 request for dividing is presented is whether it would
21 be compatible to the neighborhood . And I know this
22 has been brought up by previous people , so I ' ll try
.- 23 and not be redundant . But since these requests for
24 smaller parcels have been approved in the past , then
25 how can an industrial-sized dairy also be
54
1 compatible?
2 If this proposal is approved , it would
3 definitely change our lifestyle and quality of life
4 and that of the rest of the neighborhood because of
5 the issues of odor and flies , noise , lights , and
6 traffic generated by a 24-hour-a-day ,
7 seven-day-a-week operation . We certainly would not
8 be opposed to a use-by-right-size dairy or any other
9 agricultural endeavor as we have in the past .
10 Sorry . I ' m not a public speaker .
11 What they are asking for , though , is four
12 times the number of animals as with a use-by-right
�- 13 operation , which in our opinion is not justified for
14 this location .
15 Thank you .
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
17 Next . Okay .
18 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : My name is Tracy
19 Eichheim . I live- at 41285 Weld County Road 15 . We
20 live right here . And obviously we ' re right across
21 from this particular monster .
22 I ' m here to talk to you about water and
23 manure . But before I do , I need to say a little bit
24 about this particular -- whatever you call that thing
25 on the light box .
55
1 There ' s -- this is the first time that we
2 have seen this particular display , so there ' s a
3 couple of things I ' d like to point out . Excuse me .
4 The first thing is to Mr . Jiricek . He
5 needs to take note of the fact that the employee
6 housing , which is to be sited up next to the Cactus
7 Hill Ditch , that ' s an area -- that entire area gets
8 saturated from the leakage of the Cactus Hill Ditch
9 which , by the way , is a 10-foot wide dirt ditch ,
10 it ' s about 4-foot deep and it transfers water for all
11 of us that irrigate .
12 Those housing structures need septic tanks
13 and if that ground is saturated , you ' re going to have
14 a problem with the leach fields , and the perc test
15 for that had better be done while the ground is
^
16 saturated during irrigation system ( sic ) rather than
17 in the middle of the winter .
18 The second factor that needs to be taken
19 into account is that the fire department has - asked
20 the applicant -- or I should say the applicant is
21 supposed to try and address the issues brought up by
22 the fire •department . The fire department wants an
23 extra road to come off of the parking lot of the
24 milking parlor .
25 And if I could walk over there for a
56
^ 1 second , I ' ll show you what ' s going on -- well ,
2 actually I can show you right here on our map .
3 They would like to have a -- a second
4 emergency access road that comes off of the parking
5 lot of the milking parlor and come over to Road 84 ,
6 somewhere about in the area that -- or somewhere from
7 the milking parlor over to 84 .
8 If you will look up at the overhead
9 projection slide , you can see that that particular
10 road is most likely going to be used by the employees
11 to get out on the main road .
12 Now , the fire department wants this to be
13 an emergency access road , and I don ' t have the
14 figures on it , it ' s supposed to be a surfaced , or
^
15 compacted , or solid road so that they could get their
^
16 fire trucks in there . All right . There ' s several
17 different problems with just the road . And I ' ll get
.. 18 to this in a little bit .
19 Excuse ine if I ' m nervous . I am not
20 familiar with this . This is a high-stress situation .
21 And I ' ve never used the light box , but I have some
22 things that I will put up , so if I fumble a bit ,
.. 23 please bear with me .
24 As I said , I should -- I ' m to speak about
25 the water and the manure , but I ' m going to be a
57
1 little bit selfish before that and I ' m going to talk
2 about something that affects myself and my neighbor ,
3 Dr . Cleon Kimberling , who isn ' t here today because he
4 was in an automobile wreck Saturday -- luckily all he
5 came out with was a broken ankle . His van was
6 totally demolished ..
7 The selfishness has to do with the ditch ,
8 the irrigation ditch that Cleon and I share for our
9 irrigation of water . It crosses across the
10 applicant ' s property . And I will mark it now with
11 the orange marker again .
12 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Green .
.. 13 MR . MORRISON : Green .
14 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Now , this particular
15 water conveyance should be marked on their plat , and
16 Planning and Zoning was to require that it be so .
17 You need to know that the applicant has moved the
18 position •of the : road which goes into their dairy from
19 where the plat actually is -- shows . They ' ve moved
20 the roadbed up that it
so parallels our irrigation
.. 21 ditch as it enters the property . I ' ll mark it now
22 with this .
., 23 In the process of establishing their
24 entranceway at the request of the transportation
.. 25 department , they have crowned that road by building
58
^ 1 it up in such a manner that the runoff water from the
2 road now flows into our irrigation ditch . In the
3 past , the whole area was graded in such a manner that
4 the rainwater would run away from our irrigation
5 ditch . This is unacceptable to both Cleon and I
6 because it creates a problem of silt , which flows
7 with that water , with the rainwater , and that is
8 carried into the underground pipelines where it
9 settles .
10 The other problem with that kind of thing
— 11 is that it carries debris with it , like the bedding
12 and anything else that ' s blown across .
13 Now , the other problem that we run into is
14 that the employees who currently live in the main
15 house where Duane Aranci used to live , will find this
16 particular roadbed a perfect path to get to work
17 every day . I will point to where the house is right
18 here . They will use the access road alongside our
19 ditch in order to get to work .
20 Now, I said that I ' m being selfish and I ' m
21 speaking for both myself and Dr . Cleon , but we don ' t
22 want the runoff in that ditch , we don ' t want beer
23 bottles , we don ' t want Big Mac wrappers , we don ' t
24 want trash and silage , we don ' t want somebody ' s car
25 in that ditch especially during irrigation season .
59
1 What I would like to see is that the
2 applicant replace that ditch with a pipe that is the
3 same size as what exists underground , put it on
4 grade , 3-foot of bury-and-cover , have a drop box on
5 the south end of it within 6 feet of our water
6 structure , have that pipe sized so that it is of
7 truck strength , can be driven over with a semi truck
8 and a farm tractor . Remember , they ' re going to be
9 farming this ground right here . I would like it to
10 be installed by a commercial outfit to be completed
11 before April 15th so that we will not be disrupted in
12 our irrigation , and that this be a condition of the
13 USR if this is accepted .
14 Now , I ' ve got my little 2 cents out of the
15 way and I ' ll step into what this neighborhood is
16 going to be subjected to .
^
17 We mentioned at one time that there were
18 several problems with the P -- to P & Z , that there
19 were several problems . One of the things that
20 I mentioned was that this dairy is going to generate
21 31 . 8 tons of compost per day . Now , that is a huge
22 amount of compost . And if you ' ll excuse me for a
23 second . This is very stressful .
24 Now, in the applicant ' s rebuttal , which we
25 never had a chance to correct -- I will now see if I
A
60
1 can figure out how to use this thing over here .
2 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : You just place it
3 right on -- right on there . There you go .
4 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : That way?
..
5 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : And you might want
6 to just push it up a little bit so we can see it .
7 Thank you , that would be great . Right there ' s good .
8 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : You see my hands are
9 shaking .
^
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : You ' re doing fine .
11 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Thank you . Now , as
12 you can read , this is a transcript from P & Z , and
13 when Mr . Haren was rebutting my figures , he said
14 essentially there were some errors in the testimony .
15 And I would point out one on the -- on the manure and
16 compost generation numbers : I can see where it would
17 easily be interpreted differently , and the graph
18 actually shows that the column of pounds produced by
19 day , but then there are rows that are summarized at
^
20 the bottom that shows that we have 11 , 600 and some
21 tons , that is actually an annual number . So in our
22 experience , some dairies that are this size and
_ 23 larger , and dairies that are this size and smaller ,
24 the compost -- I cannot see the manure with this site
25 will be an issue at all . Exactly what did he say in
61
1 rebuttal of 31 . 8 tons per day?
2 Now, this is the nutrient management plan .
3 Let me raise it up just a little bit .
4 This is the calculation table that they
5 produce which tells you how many pounds , how many
6 tons of manure are generated . And you will notice
7 that , yes , the number 11 , 603 does occur at the bottom
8 as an annual amount of compost . And if you ' ll whip
9 out your little handy-dandy calculator and you divide
10 11 , 630 tons by 365 days , you will come up with 31 . 8
11 tons per day of compost .
12 Now, 31 . 8 tons is the equivalent of 63
13 pickup loads , a thousand pounds per pickup . If you
14 go to the grocery store and you get a 20-pound bag of
^
15 compost and you load 50 bags in the back of your
16 truck , the tires start to squash . That is one-half
17 ton . That ' s a thousand pounds . It takes 63 pickup
18 loads to haul off the compost every day .
19 The manure that is generated to create that
20 compost is over 150 tons per day . That is 300 pickup
21 loads . That is one pickup after another , bumper to
22 bumper , for over a mile , every day . That ' s the
23 amount of manure that will be excreted in the middle
24 of our neighborhood .
25 Now, so that you can see what we will be
62
1 seeing --
2 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mr . Eichheim, I just
3 need to let you know , too , that those all become
4 exhibits and become a part of the record .
5 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : I understand . I
6 understand .
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay , just want to
8 make sure .
9 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : I ' m not sure -- oh , it
10 is going to work . All right .
11 This is Mr . Dye ' s current dairy . And it is
12 right here . And as you can see , there is a mile of
13 separation between his current dairy and the proposed
14 dairy . And this is what people are talking about
15 being sandwiched between 6 , 000 cows . If you have
16 4 , 000 here and 2 , 000 here , we ' re caught in the
17 middle . There ' s no way to get away from it .
18 Now, what you see in this picture right up
19 in this area , which would be at the top of that , are
^
20 the rows and rows and rows of manure . For an even
21 better view of what we will be looking at , I have
22 brought copies of this that you can take a look at .
23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Go ahead .
24 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Now --
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Sorry . Just a
63
1 second .
2 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Yes .
3 MR . MORRISON : Your copy is noted 1999 .
4 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Yes .
0-
5 MR . MORRISON : Your overhead is not .
6 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : The overhead is taken
7 of this and the 1999 is penciled in afterwards . This
8 map --
9 MR . MORRISON : Well , time out .
10 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Okay .
11 MR . MORRISON : I thought you said it was
12 this overhead . Is that the thing you just handed
13 out?
14 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : No , no , I said I have
15 copies of this .
16 MR . MORRISON : All right .
17 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay , so the
18 document you just gave us and the overhead are not
19 the same thing . So it needs to be another exhibit .
20 MR . MORRISON : And neither is the easel
21 because this is only a portion of that entire --
22 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : So you ' re going to
23 give it another exhibit number?
24 MR . MORRISON : No , I -- I think you should
25 refer to the easel and I ' m going to mark what ' s on
64
1 the easel now --
2 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Okay , that ' s
3 wonderful .
4 MR . MORRISON : -- as double P .
5 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Wonderful .
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
7 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Referring to the
8 easel , you will notice -- and since you have in your
9 hands a copy of what is on the easel , you can see the
10 rows and rows and rows of manure that are stacked
11 here . Now , bear in mind that what you ' re looking at
12 is the production from 2 , 000 cows . What we will be
13 seeing is 4 , 000 cows .
14 The other thing to consider is that the
15 geographic location of his dairy here is such that it
16 is on the hidden side of a valley . In other words ,
17 there is no spot along this mile-line road where you
18 can see this manure . There is no spot along this
19 road that you can -- well , until you get out- about
20 three quarters of a mile , that you can even see that
21 manure . There are no houses west of this for a mile .
22 Now , one of the things that we noticed was
.- 23 the compost-area area on the proposed site . And what
24 I did was I made a little hanging chad , for those
25 people who have been watching that whole debate .
65
1 This little piece of paper I have in my
2 hand is the compost-area area . It is roughly the
3 same size -- of course my hand is shaking -- it ' s
4 roughly the same size as the compost area that they
5 currently have for 2 , 000 cows . We will be looking at
6 4 , 000 cows manured in this area , which will visually
7 be in everyone ' s face because this all slopes toward
8 Fort -- toward Road 15 .
9 So what we will be seeing from our homes is
10 what you see in this , only doubled , or worse . Just
11 visualize how much stuff ; brown rows .
12 Now , one thing that I ' d like to point out
13 is this berm that runs along this edge right here of
14 this composting area , and next to that berm you ' ll
15 see that it ' s water . It ' s this stacked up water in
16 here .
17 Something that should be pointed out is the
18 drainage direction that comes off of this particular
19 area and I ' ll mark it now with this green pen . As
20 long as I ' m here , I ' ll mark a couple of other
21 drainages that come off of that property .
22 All right . As long as we ' re talking about
23 water , we have some considerable groundwater hazards
24 over here at the new site . The lagoons will be dug
25 into a seasonally changing water table and that ' s
66
1 primarily because of the leakage of the Cactus Hill
2 Ditch , which is up here , but it is not only from the
3 Cactus Hill Ditch . The rainwater that falls in the
4 grasslands up here also recharge that underground .
5 Now , Mr . Haren pointed out that this
6 primary lagoon is 16 feet on the map , that ' s what
7 it ' s supposed to be , is 16-foot deep , but he said
8 that doesn ' t mean it ' s a hole in the ground 16-foot
9 deep . I would ask the question : If the water that
10 drains off of the corrals , the compost and everything
11 else , is supposed to run into a hole and get 16 feet
12 of capacity , how can there be less than 16 feet in
13 the ground?
14 Now , the obvious answer is , well , we ' re
^
15 going to build up the area at the end of the corrals .
16 Well , then , tell us how high you ' re going to build it
17 up .
^ 18 Now , Mr . Haren brought out the fact that
19 there were some wells , according to the registry .
20 And I know of the one well on the Aranci property
^
21 that he discussed and I can even point it out . And
22 it ' s right there . It ' s notched into the pen fence
23 next to the animals . Now , Mr . Aranci used to use
24 that well to help water the cows , contrary to someone
25 saying that , well , you know , there ' s no real water .
67
1 There is another well on the Aranci
2 property . In fact , there ' s two more , right there ,
3 and there ' s one up -- there ' s one up in the -- in the
4 yard . The other well that is significant is a water
5 well in Keith Mullins ' yard . Keith Mullins lives
6 right here . And I think when he stands up , he may
7 tell you that his water depth , or the depth to water ,
8 is quite shallow .
9 I might mention that this one well that
10 Mr . Haren was talking about is an old , hand-dug ,
11 brick-lined well . It has been used for many , many ,
12 many long years . And instead of running around out
13 there with his drill machine , he could have gone over
14 there and just lifted the hole and looked in it
15 because seasonally it runs from 8 to 12 feet to
16 water .
17 All right . The other problem that we note
18 with a groundwater hazard is that the manure pile
19 here is in another one of these areas of high
20 seepage .
21 Remember , this Cactus Hill Ditch leaks . It
22 dumps water into the underground . Farmers don ' t care
23 except for one situation : It ' s my understanding that
24 once upon a time , Dick Shields had them turn the
25 water off so he could get his field to dry out . This
68
1 area at the head of the compost , right there -- I
2 asked Dick Shields , since he ' s farmed this land along
3 with Duane Aranci , when Aranci said , "Hey , do you
4 want to farm it for a while? " Actually Aranci -- oh ,
5 you don ' t need to know that .
r 6 I asked Dick Shields , "Have you ever seen
7 it leak up there? " He says , "Oh , yeah . " I said ,
8 "How bad? " He says there have been times when that
9 field was in corn and the corn rows run this way . He
r 10 said , " I have seen water come to the surface of the
11 ground in the bottom of the corn rows -- excuse me --
12 bottom of the corn rows 300 feet out in the field . "
13 The ground saturates , the water continues to leak
14 again , it finally comes to the surface and down the
15 road .
r 16 Now , how are they going to seal the ground
17 to protect the groundwater underneath those manure
18 piles? The typical response is , "Oh , well , we ' ll
19 just compact the soil . " How do you stop freeze and
r
20 thaw from loosening the soil , especially if it ' s fed
21 with water from the bottom side? I don ' t have an
22 answer . It ' s not my problem . My place here is to
r 23 just tell you there are more problems with this thing
24 than you can shake a stick at .
25 Now , Mr . Jiricek has already brought out
^
69
^
1 the point that the tailwater pond , the only existing
2 tailwater pond on this whole farm , has been deepened
3 into the groundwater . My guess is they wanted a free
4 source of water to use in compacting the soil . They
5 didn ' t want to go buy water so they thought they
6 could just make a well . Having opened up the waters
7 of the state of Colorado , that can no longer be used
8 as a tailwater pond for stormwater application or
9 processed water application .
10 They cannot allow manure water to run off
_ 11 of that field into that little pond . Let me show you
12 where that pond is . In fact , you can probably see it
13 pretty well . It ' s right there . That ' s the pond .
14 Now , what they ' ve been talking about , and
15 what they are required to do , is when they pump
16 stormwater , they are required by the regulations to
17 have tailwater ponds in place to catch it . It cannot
18 leave that property . In their manure management
19 plan , they say they have ponds , plural , in place .
20 This is a 1999 photograph . This is actually a xerox
21 copy of a ' 99 -- a big one . There are no tailwater
22 ponds . That ' s the only one and they have destroyed
._ 23 it for use on this site .
24 All right . They ' ve got problems , not the
25 least of which is in order to put tailwater ponds in
70
1 this area that they want to apply their stormwater ,
2 that land goes every direction imaginable . They will
3 have to have not less than three tailwater ponds to
4 collect off of that one parcel , as well as build
5 another one on this one .
^, 6 And Mr . Jiricek might want to know just how
7 deep those ponds are going to be because if they dig
8 them into the ground , they ' re approaching
9 groundwater . So the amount of soil is going to
10 separate the bottom of the tailwater pond from the
11 groundwater , becomes the issue . But that ' s his
12 department .
•- 13 Rainfall hazards : All of the drainage
14 from the 171 . 6 acres of the farmable land surrounding
15 this -- and I ' ll mark it with a pink pen -- all of
16 the drainage from this 171 . 6 exit this property and
17 go across my land .
18 After the water exits that property -- and ,
19 incidentally , Duane Aranci was a very wise man and he
20 had this whole thing set up so that every drop of
21 irrigated water on his whole -- that part of the
22 farm , I almost said his whole farm but that ' s not
.. 23 true -- the parcel that I have surrounded in the pink
24 is all capable of being returned to this one
25 tailwater pond . By opening a gate allowing water to
•..
71
1 exit under the road , the silt water could be dumped
2 if he didn ' t want to collect and reuse his own water .
3 What we have here is a situation where all
4 of the water from that farm is now exiting across my
5 land , across Keith Mullins ' land and it ends up right
6 here in Ancel Lewis ' reservoir . Now , this is the
7 adjudicated water that he uses to irrigate his land .
8 You can perhaps see why I get a little
9 concerned when there is a 4 , 000-cow dairy is going to
^
10 be sited in such a position that any leakage , any
^ 11 manure flow , any error , is going to affect my land ,
12 my neighbor ' s land and terminate in the water source
13 of my other neighbor . The lagoons are sized for a
14 3 . 4-inch rain .
15 Now , it ' s interesting , again , when
16 Mr . Haren was talking to planning and zoning , he had
17 another one of those pronouncements .
18 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Mr . Eichheim , are
19 you about finished? You need to wrap-up .
20 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Yeah .
21 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
r
22 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : We used to design for
23 a 25-24 . It made the lagoons much smaller , the
24 problem is , you know , the last few springs we get one
25 storm and two or three days later you get another
72
,. 1 one , so we ' ve switched and started designing for a
2 10-day , 10-year , 10-day standard . It handles , it
3 adds up to , about twice what a 25-24 storm handles
4 and that ' s what all the regulations require to make
5 our lagoons look huge on the map , but Colorado is
6 still semi-arid .
7 And yet what they have designed for and
" 8 what the plan shows , is that it ' s a 25-24 . Now , we
9 have a lot of rainfall in our area at times . We get
10 extremes ; it ' s either dry or it ' s not . In 1999 we
11 got a 10-day storm of rainfall that was 7 . 5 inches of
12 rain in a 10-day period of time .
13 This is the rainfall record which is kept
14 by Pam Erthal , who lives right on the corner of the
15 dairy site , right here . For your records and for
.. 16 you -- so you can see it , I ' ve made a copy for each
17 of you .
18 Now , bear in mind , this was 1999 whan we
19 had 7 inches of rain in 10 days . Their plans calls
20 for protection for 3 . 4 inches of rain . That ' s the
21 capacity of their thing . Do you remember
22 Fort Collins had a flood a few years ago? It was
.. 23 July the 28th of 1997 . They got 14 inches of rain in
24 30 hours . That flood caused massive damage and there
.. 25 was loss of lives . This dairy site is 3 . 4 miles as
73
.. 1 the crow flies from -- from where those people died .
2 My fear is that these holding structures
^- 3 right here will fail under a storm like the one that
4 killed those people . An avalanche of manure and
5 water comes across our property , Keith ' s property , it
.. 6 overloads Ancel ' s reservoir . And you can see the
7 size comparison , this to that .
8 If that dam breaches , it sends the
9 avalanche down this pristine cattail swamp area and
10 it could end up even damaging Dr . Cleon ' s home .
.. 11 One thing that no one has asked is what
12 happens when the Cactus Hill Ditch floods ? When we
13 get high rain , it transports water into the area
14 because the Cactus Hill Ditch is the highest ditch in
15 the system . Excess water that comes in on the ditch
16 is added to whatever we get . Something that they
17 have not thought about .
.. 18 This is a choke point where that ditch goes
19 underneath the road . Water coming down the ditch is
20 bogged , spills here , and if you ' ll remember , I said
21 all the water from that whole parcel exits through my
22 place . Look what happens when the water comes up
23 against the edge of their lagoon and the steep
24 embankment right there . This flood water is going to
25 build up , go through the lagoons .
74
1 What I want is protection from a 24-hour
2 storm of the size that killed those people in
3 Fort Collins . We ' re only 8 . 4 miles as the crow flies
4 from where they died . If you cannot give me that
5 protection , then please deny this USR . It is not
6 compatible with the neighborhood and presents serious
7 hazards to our neighborhood .
8 Thank you . Do you have any questions?
9 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you .
10 Questions? I just have one quick one .
11 The ditch that you spoke about that you and
12 your neighbor --
13 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Yes .
14 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : -- use , I don ' t see
15 that on the map . Do you have an easement for it or
16 is it fee simple or . . .
17 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : We have a -- an
18 agreement which we have recorded between us
19 delineating our responsibilities . It is an ease- --
20 it is not a recorded easement , it is a whatever you
21 call right-to-flow across historic -- whatever you
22 call it . The ditch supplied the land when I bought
._ 23 the -- my parcel . I don ' t know what you call it .
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Do you have an
25 agreement between you and --
75
1 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : And Dr . Cleon
2 Kimberling .
3 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Who -- what about
4 the property owner?
5 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : The property owner --
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Did you have one
7 with the Shields ?
.. 8 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : It would have been
9 Aranci . And no .
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : No . Okay .
11 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : The reason is that
12 the right-to-flow water goes with the ditch . If
- 13 there was an agreement at some time in the past , I
14 have no idea . That would have been when the ditch
15 was established in the early 1900s .
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . So you don ' t
17 have any easement but you have a right-to-flow
.. 18 agreement between yourself and who , Dr . --
19 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : It is Dr . Cleon
20 Kimberling and it is --
21 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Kimberling .
22 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : -- it is an agreement
.. 23 between us in which we stipulate how the maintenance ,
24 et cetera , should be carried out . And it was
25 recorded in Weld County , I think last year . I ' ve got
76
1 a copy of it , if you ' d like it .
2 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : It was just recorded
3 last year?
4 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Last year , I think it
5 was ' 99 .
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : 1999 . Okay . How
7 long have you lived in the area?
8 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : 12 years . I ' m a
9 native of Colorado .
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Me , too . Okay .
11 Thank you .
12 Any other questions?
13 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Just a question about
14 that water . Where does this water originate? Is it
r.
15 a ditch company? I mean , where does the water come
16 from that comes into this ditch? Do you have
17 water rights in a water company --
- 18 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Yes . We owned 12
19 shares of North Poudre Irrigation Water . Now , this
20 is mountain water , primarily , which is used to
21 irrigate the crops . With that 12 shares of water , we
22 irrigate about 30-some acres of cropland . We raise
23 some hay for sheep .
24 It ' s my understanding the applicant has one
25 share of North Poudre Irrigation Water , which will
F.
77
1 irrigate two acres of corn . So to answer your
—
2 question , the irrigation water is controlled by the
3 North Poudre Irrigation Company . It is primarily but
4 not exclusively mountain water , and it is supplied to
.. 5 the shareholders of record .
6 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Now this ditch
—
7 supplies only the property owner and you --
-
8 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Oh , no .
9 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : It goes on through a
10 number of others?
.. 11 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Oh , yes .
12 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Now we ' re
-- 13 talking about the Cactus Hill Ditch .
14 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : This is the Cactus
15 Hill Ditch .
16 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Was your question
17 related to the , for lack of a better terminology , the
18 Eichheim ditch he was talking about? Which one were
19 you asking the question? -
.. 20 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Well , I ' m asking the
21 water he gets comes out of that Cactus Hill Ditch and
—
22 so I ' m asking what it does , and how much he had of
23 it .
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : In the Cactus Hill
25 Ditch , okay . All right , so your question wasn ' t
78
1 about his ditch that he has this right-to-flow
2 agreement on?
3 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Well , I guess in a
4 way both , but he -- the right-to-flow comes out of
5 Cactus Hill across their property --
6 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Yes .
7 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : -- to you .
8 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Perhaps I can --
9 perhaps I can explain a little further . All of our
10 water -- and it ' s not just my water -- I can maybe
11 show you where the distribution is , quickly , from
12 gate 15 . And I might mention that one of the letters
13 in your file is from the president of the North
14 Poudre Irrigation Company and he delineates that
15 North Poudre has a -- an easement or a right to a
16 piece right up in the corner . Here .
17 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : George , is this the
.. 18 question you wanted answered?
19 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : Well , I needed to
20 know who would be affected because part of the
21 question is who would be affected by this dairy
22 immediately adjacent to this ditch and --
23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : To the Cactus Hill
24 Ditch?
25 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : And we start talking
79
1 about flooding into Cactus Hill and in across the
2 property and on down , we -- I ' d like to know who ' s
3 affected by that .
4 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Everyone will be . As
5 far as the irrigation --
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All the users of the
7 ditch , yeah .
8 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : As far as the
9 irrigation water , this Cactus Hill -- this gate 15
10 supplies Dr . Kimberling , myself through this piece .
11 This is all underground from here down --
12 MR . MORRISON : Time . We can ' t --
-
13 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Time out .
14 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : There ' s all kinds of
., 15 people that draw water off of just this one side
16 ditch of the Cactus Hill .
17 MR . MORRISON : You -- there ' s a record
18 here , you can ' t just say here , there , this .
19 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Okay .
20 MR . MORRISON : I want to back up .
21 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Sure .
22 MR . MORRISON : You ' ve shown in green a long
23 diagonal across Exhibit PP --
24 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Yes .
25 MR . MORRISON : -- that ' s the Cactus Hill
• 80
1 Ditch ; is that correct?
2 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Up at the east edge
3 of the map --
4 MR . MORRISON : All right .
5 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : -- is a wiggly green
6 line delineating the Cactus Hill Ditch .
7 MR . MORRISON : All right . Then you have
8 shown in the fluorescent pink , the gate that --
9 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Yes .
10 MR . MORRISON : -- exits from Cactus Hill
11 and then goes -- starts in a westerly direction --
12 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Correct .
13 MR . MORRISON : -- and that ' s also in the
14 fluorescent pink .
15 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : And that is the
16 easement which Duane Aranci , the Cactus Hill -- I ' m
17 sorry , the North Poudre Irrigation Company president
18 has advised that they have a easement , or a right --
19 what it is , is it-' s a short section of ditch between
20 the measuring device and the main ditch .
21 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay .
22 MR . MORRISON : All right . Is this -- and
.. 23 then there ' s a -- then there ' s a lateral that heads
24 to the west , is that on -- on the proposed --
25 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Everything --
r
81
1 MR . MORRISON : Let me -- let me --
2 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Okay .
3 MR . MORRISON : Let me ask , because we ' ve
4 got these lines all over the place now .
5 This goes to the west . Is it to the south
6 of the road or to the -- on the same side of the road
7 as the proposed dairy?
8 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : It is on the north
9 side of the road . It is a buried pipeline which ,
10 incidentally , the applicant should protect .
11 MR . MORRISON : I -- I just want to get the
12 exhibit --
13 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : That ' s fine .
14 MR . MORRISON : Okay .
15 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : The underground
16 pipeline is buried on the north side of the road and
17 it traverses west approximately three-quarters of a
18 mile .
19 MR . MORRISON : And is this the one- you ' ve
20 been referring to that you have a -- an agreement
21 with one of the other --
r
22 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : No .
23 MR . MORRISON : -- property owners ?
24 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : No .
25 MR . MORRISON : What do you call this --
82
.. 1 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : That is the community
2 conveyance , because it supplies the irrigation water
3 for -- let me count and see if I can get in my mind
4 the number of people . It is huge .
5 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : That ' s okay .
6 MR . MORRISON : I just want to --
7 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : We just need to
8 know where it is and which ditches we ' re talking
9 about .
10 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Okay .
11 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : That ' s all .
12 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : There ' s a bunch of
13 lines because that ' s what this whole irrigation
14 system does , it ' s a spider .
15 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay .
16 MR . MORRISON : All I --
17 COMMISSIONER HALL : Mr . Morrison , would
18 that be helpful , maybe , after the meeting to have him
19 label those? -
20 MR . MORRISON : No , it needs to be done
21 before the close of the record . If we have a break ,
22 maybe he can label them .
23 COMMISSIONER HALL : Okay .
24 MR . MORRISON : But before the record ' s --
25 COMMISSIONER HALL : At some point in time
83
_ 1 he can label .
2 MR . MORRISON : Yeah .
— 3 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Anything
4 else?
5 MR . MORRISON : Not at this point .
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . Thank
7 you .
8 MR . TRACY EICHHEIM : Thank you for hearing
9 us .
10 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . I think it
11 would probably be appropriate at this time if I
12 informed the public that I have a family commitment
13 that I cannot get out of and I will be recessing
14 this , if we ' re not done , at 4 : 15 . And I ' ve already
^
15 informed the board and we will continue it on Tuesday
16 of next week , which will be the -- what , 12th . So ,
17 just so you ' re all aware that that will be occurring .
— 18 So is there anyone else in the public who
19 would like to come forward at this time?
— 20 If you would please come to the microphone
21 and state your name and address for the record .
22 MS . JEAN EICHHEIM : Yes . My name is Jean
— 23 Eichheim . I live at 41285 Weld County Road 15 in
24 Fort Collins . Actually , it ' s in Weld County , with my
25 husband , Tracy . This is our farm right here .
I.
84
1 In order to save time , I am in complete
2 agreement with all my neighbors ' statements about the
3 incompatible -- incompatibility issues and with what
4 my husband has said .
5 I do have one issue to bring up and it is a
6 health issue regarding animals . I raise a rare breed
7 of sheep . Some of my -- and because there ' s only
8 small numbers of them , some of my animals are 10 and
9 11 years old . I am not the only one in the
10 neighborhood who raises livestock . There are three
11 other neighbors completely -- I mean adjacent to
12 Mr . Dye ' s proposed dairy . There ' s probably about 300
�- 13 sheep in our area .
14 Because of the large numbers of cows he
15 wants , I asked my veterinarian if she could discuss
16 or give me some information on some serious diseases
17 that cows can pass on to my sheep , in a letter . And
18 in order to save you some time from having to look
19 everything up , I ban give you each a copy .
^ 20 And I am not a very good veterinarian so I
21 do not feel qualified to discuss things in fancy
22 language or anything and she has put everything
23 simply in a letter .
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Great . Hand
25 that to the county attorney . Thank you .
85
1 MS . JEAN EICHHEIM : There are two diseases .
2 One is Johnes , and it ' s a chronic wasting disease ,
3 there is no treatment , there is no cure . And this is
4 one of the common diseases that cows can pass on
5 because of the large amounts of manure , say , 150 tons
6 a day , which can be produced by 4 , 000 sheep , we will
7 have these mountains of manure right across the
10.4 8 street from us .
9 We do get some big winds . I don ' t really
10 want that stuff blowing all around . And this
11 particular disease , the organism is passed on through
12 the manure of infected cows . And in order for my
13 sheep to get it , they actually have to ingest this .
14 And when you have 150 tons of manure being produced a
15 day , with the winds , there is -- it ' s on an open
16 slope , I really don ' t want this blowing all over my
17 farm . I don ' t want my cows eating it and I ' m sure my
18 neighbors don ' t: want their cows eating it either .
19 There is another disease , and it ' s- -- I can
20 simply abbreviate it as BVDV , and this disease is
21 also passed on by the cows , causes problems in my --
22 in young lambs . These lambs , their wool is really
23 hairy looking , and the lambs have tremors , they ' re
24 unthrifty and they usually don ' t survive until
25 maturity . This is of great concern , as I said ,
86
1 because I have a rare breed .
2 And this -- I -- in my vet ' s letter , she
3 states that this second disease , they ' re really not
4 sure how it ' s passed on , but it could be through the
5 manure , it could be through biting flies , I ' m not
6 sure . In all fairness to Mr . Dye , she also describes
7 another disease , and I will simply abbreviate it , and
8 it ' s called MCF , which is passed -- can be passed on
9 from sheep to the cattle and it is fatal in cattle .
10 It really doesn ' t have any effect on the sheep .
11 And knowing about this , I spoke with
12 dairymen , Mr . George Hirsch , and he operates a dairy
13 I think somewhere near Windsor , on about Road --
14 County Road 78 . He is just south and adjacent to a
15 large sheep feedlot . His sheep and the cows do not
16 come into personal contact . There ' s , I don ' t know , a
17 couple hundred feet . They ' re penned close to each
18 other .
19 And in the last five or six years , -
- 20 Mr . Hirsch has told me that he has lost cattle to
21 this , and it ' s very expensive for him . He ' s lost
22 about 25 in the last five or six years and every year
.. 23 the incidents increase .
24 And I just want Mr . Dye to be aware of this
25 and not come to me and complain that -- when or if
87
1 his cows gets sick and start dying , that he would
2 like me to compensate him for any losses , because my
3 sheep were there first .
4 And that ' s about all I ' ve got to say .
5 Thank you .
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
7 All right , next .
8 MR . JIM ERTHAL : Hello , I ' m Jim Erthal . I
9 reside at 40907 Weld County Road 15 , Fort Collins ,
10 Colorado . We ' re a neighbor to the proposed project .
11 We live directly catty-corner across County Road 15
12 and 84 from the proposed dairy site .
13 There ' s several things that concern me ,
14 some things that have been presented already , so I
15 won ' t go into those , but I know this intersection of
16 Weld County 15 and 84 , currently there ' s not a huge
17 amount but there ' s truck traffic that comes out that
18 way from Centennial Livestock Auction and then large
19 hay trucks , with semis with large trailers and
20 things . They really do have a difficult time
21 negotiating that corner .
22 There ' s a concrete -- or a culvert that
23 comes across under the Road 15 -- or across 15 on the
24 south side of 84 , which actually supplies our
25 irrigation water . It ' s fairly close to that
-
88
1 intersection and actually has had semi trucks drop
2 their rear wheels into it already trying to negotiate
3 the corner there .
4 I think that intersection has some concern
5 as far as traffic , on my part , and I really believe
6 if this is put in , and increased semi truck traffic
7 and stuff , even in turning the other direction on
8 that road , the County probably needs to look at the
9 possibility of widening that intersection and
10 widening that road at that intersection in order to
11 accommodate semis turning there .
12 Just one thing : I heard in a previous
13 docket that I found interesting , that the gentleman
14 hauled his manure from the horse facility to a nearby
—
15 dairy to get rid of it for composting and stuff .
16 Just was wondering if that sort of thing would be
17 happening also at this dairy . Would there be other
18 manure and stuff hauled in there as well ? I would
19 certainly find that objectionable . I think a dairy
20 this size would produce enough on its own that we
21 don ' t need any more .
22 One thing -- that a group of neighbors felt
23 very , very strongly about this proposed dairy , and
24 we ' re opposed to it . We had presented Mr . Dye with a
25 letter informing him of that opposition back in July
89
.. 1 and a group of us actually put together an offer to
2 buy this property from Mr . Dye in order to prevent
3 the dairy from -- from being here .
4 On August 24th of this year , an offer was
5 presented to Mr . Dye for $ 1 . 3 million for the
6 property , which we believed to be $ 100 , 000 profit for
7 him , for the time that he ' d owned the property . So I
8 think you can see that , you know, we were very
9 serious . That was a big step for us at the time .
10 At the time , Amendment 24 was under
11 consideration , looked like it had a very good chance
12 of passing at that point in time , and we knew that
13 there was a possibility we could be tying up a
14 $1 . 3 million investment for an uncertain amount of
15 time . Whether or not we ' d even be able to recoup
16 that investment in any reasonable length of time was
17 in question .
18 But , nonetheless , we went ahead . We were
19 willing to put our money where our mouth is and
20 attempt to purchase the property .
21 I think that the reality of this situation
22 is that we ' ve got a dairy a mile to the east of this
23 dairy -- or excuse me , a mile to the west of this
24 dairy , and that ' s a 2 , 000-cow dairy , and then we ' re
25 looking at the proposed dairy of 4 , 000 cows here .
90
1 It puts a significant number of people
2 who , if his dairy ' s approved , will be living in the
3 middle of a 6 , 000-cow dairy . We ' re not just talking
4 about a 4 , 000-cow dairy here that somebody might be
5 living on the edge of , or 2 , 000-cow dairy that
6 somebody might be living on the edge of , but living
7 in the middle of a huge dairy . And I just can ' t see
8 where that ' s a reasonable thing to do .
9 It seems to me there have to be other sites
10 that Mr . Dye could buy to put this dairy that would
11 be much more reasonable and not effect so many
12 people . I -- I believe in the use-by-right . I knew
13 when we bought our property that , you know , Weld
14 County allows for animal units per acre . And if you
15 looked at some of the sizes of places around this ,
._ 16 the Aranci property being one of the largest at 200
17 acres , when this is looked at as a 278-acre property ,
'- 18 it ' s combined with another piece in order
19 to give it that size . You know , on a 200-acre
20 property , four units , 800 animals . I hope something
.. 21 like that would never take place .
22 But at the same time , I recognize it could
23 and I was willing to take that risk , that , you know ,
24 something of that size could be built next to us .
25 I think 4 , 000 , four times that , is just
91
1 unreasonable . And I think to put those of us who
2 would be living between the two dairies in the middle
3 of a 6 , 000-cow dairy is just totally unreasonable .
4 And I wish we weren ' t here today . I wish Mr . Dye
5 hadn ' t bought the property . I wish Mr . Dye had sold
6 the property to us , you know . Some other means could
7 have taken place . But it hasn ' t . And I strongly
8 urge you to take this into consideration in making
9 your determination in making your decision .
10 And I ' d ask you please , please , don ' t put
11 us in the middle of a 6 , 000-cow dairy .
12 Thank you .
13 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Sure . Thank you .
14 Question .
15 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Mr . Erthal , I -- in
16 reading your correspondence with us , I was intrigued
17 by what I read and what you just said about the offer
18 of buying the property . What would your intention
19 have been , how would you have recouped your money?
20 MR . JIM ERTHAL : Well , truthfully , this
21 was put together fairly quickly . The group who were
22 involved in this were basically looking at , you know ,
23 probably for a certain amount of time we would just
24 hold the property . There was discussion possibly
25 about putting it back on the market , you know , in
92
1 some amount of time to sell it for continued farming
2 purposes . To see if maybe we could do wording on it
3 that wouldn ' t allow a dairy operation or -- or , you
4 know , an animal confinement project on that property ,
5 if we were to sell it in order to prevent that in a
6 long-term method .
7 There were discussions kicked out about ,
8 you know , in some amount of time , probably
9 inevitably , growth is going to reach us .
10 I love living on a small farm . I -- even
11 with houses that , you know , go up on the edge of your
12 40 acres , it ' s amazing how you can feel encroached
13 upon . And , you know, there was discussion kicked out
14 that , well , maybe we hold it until it develops or ,
15 you know , who knows what would happen in the area .
16 So there was a number of things kicked
17 around . Nothing that was really determined . We felt
18 like that wasn 't really a necessary place to
19 absolutely make any kind of decision until we knew
20 what the response of Mr . Dye would be . And he
�. 21 rejected that offer so it became a moot issue at that
22 point .
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Thank you .
24 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you very much .
25 MR . JIM ERTHAL : Thank you .
^
93
1 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : My name is Bill Weida ,
2 I ' m a professor of economics at the Colorado College .
—
3 And I arrived late here because I had to teach a
— 4 class today .
5 So I have some copies of a paper that I put
6 together on this issue . I belong to an organization
7 that assists local groups in terms of preparing
8 testimony in situations like this . We act as expert
9 witnesses in some cases .
10 What I would like to do with you is go over
11 just some of the statements that were put in the USR
12 application as applied to economics and as applied to
13 cost-shifting on this issue .
14 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : You know , I ' m sorry ,
15 did you give us your address?
16 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Yes . It ' s on the
17 front of the paper . I ' m --
18 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : For the record ,
19 would you --
20 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Department of
— 21 Economics at the Colorado College in
22 Colorado Springs , Colorado . And my phone number is
23 ( 719 ) 389-6409 . And my E-mail address is on there
24 also , I think .
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : So your home address
—
94
1 is in Colorado Springs ?
2 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Is in Colorado
3 Springs , yes , unfortunately .
4 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
5 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Okay . This is of
6 interest on several levels . One is because of the
7 massive consolidation that ' s taking place in the
8 dairy industry , but another reason it ' s of interest
9 is we faced the same problem in the United States in
10 the 1870s when factories were set up that were vastly
11 larger than anything it had imagined in the size that
12 they had had prior to the Civil War . And people
13 began to question how to deal with the pollution that
14 was generated by these things .
15 This is the same thing that ' s happening
16 right now . We have a situation where science and
17 agriculture has enabled us to keep animals alive in
18 situations where they would normally have died . And
19 we are putting together such large operations that
20 they begin , then , to stress what our definition of
21 agriculture is in the areas that we ' re trying to use .
22 This application is an interesting example
23 of that . When this happens , I would point out to you
24 that based on what ' s called principle agent theory in
25 economics , you are at a disadvantage because there is
95
1 an isometrical information situation here where the
2 individual that ' s proposing this knows far more about
3 what ' s going on than you do .
4 Now , in an attempt to attack that , there
5 are three major studies on the impacts of dairies in
6 the United States , or at least guidelines . One is
7 one done by the University of Minnesota last year for
8 the State of Minnesota , one is done by the State of
9 Ohio about three years ago , and one is the US
10 Department of Agriculture field handbook guidelines .
11 The paper I have given you has been
12 constructed from those to give you a background both
13 pro and con of all the different things that can go
14 on with a megadairy of this size .
15 Let ' s talk -- well , the problem with this
16 thing is it comes down , is that if you cannot control
17 it , you set up a situation where you then become a
18 magnet for other operations of similar sizes . And I
19 think you should be well aware of the fact that this
20 may be the first of this kind in this particular
21 area , but it darn sure is not going to be the last .
22 And that ' s particularly given the way that large
23 dairies are moving around in the United States .
24 There is a claim at the start of the USR
25 application that feedlot and dairy operations
96
1 typically contribute 2 . 5 times their gross sales to
2 the local economy . There is absolutely no support
^
3 for that statement , whatsoever . The amount of
4 contribution to the economy that one of these dairies
5 contributes has to do with where the money is spent .
6 It ' s interesting to know that this dairy , itself ,
7 lists its home address in Fort Collins . The issue is
^
8 whether or not Weld County would get any benefit for
9 the waste that ' s being asked to assume , because ,
10 really , what the bottom line is here , if you ' re going
.. 11 to pack this many animals on this small a piece of
12 property , you are in the process of absorbing costs
13 of that waste .
14 Now , the trade off for that has always been
15 that you ' re providing jobs to the local community and
16 other things like that . That depends on where the
17 money ' s spent . When your local communities that are
18 of any size are both outside of your county and are
19 as close as they are to the operation that we see
20 there , there is very little question that the money ' s
21 going to be spent somewhere else and not in
22 Weld County .
23 It ' s interesting that the proposer here
24 suggests 15 employees . By national standards , this
25 is about one-half of what he should be using ; also ,
.. 97
-� 1 by standards of the Colorado State University in a
2 study that ' s just been put out . I don ' t know why
3 that is the case , but I would point out that that
4 limits the economic impact even further .
5 In addition to this , the water permit which
6 is in there shows a usage of 42 , 000 gallons , which is
7 as close as I can come to a guesstimate of how much
8 water they intend to use . 42 , 000 gallons , if you
9 only take the 1700 dairy cows and don ' t even count
10 the 2300 other animals which are proposed for this
.. 11 site , would give you about 82 gallons per animal .
12 That is quite low by national standards . We would
13 assume somewhere between 100 to 150 gallons per
14 animal for dairy cows in any other operation in the
15 United States . That would mean water usage of
16 somewhere between 62 and 93 million gallons .
17 That is of interest in two respects .
18 Number one , in how it stresses the water plants since
19 this is a quite unusual situation using water that ' s
20 been treated and , secondly , whether or not the
21 lagoons are of appropriate size . Now , the lagoons of
22 which are on here , when calculated out , at least the
23 storage lagoons , appear to hold about 27 . 8 million
24 gallons of water . That is , according to the USR
25 application , 11 months worth of water generation , of
—
98
•- 1 manure generation , from the operation . Once again ,
2 that is extremely low by national standards .
3 There ' s an issue of cost shifting here
4 which has to do with the lagoons , too . The question
5 is not what goes into the lagoons , the question is
6 what comes out of the lagoons . Now , the USR
7 application states in the application that they have
8 designed the lagoons to Colorado standards and this
9 is -- I believe , they ' re using , it ' s once again hard
10 to tell , a compacted bentonite liner , but by Colorado
11 standards that allows 1 / 32 of an inch of leakage per
12 day .
13 Doesn ' t sound like much , but when you
14 multiply that over a lagoon area , which is about
15 525 , 000 square feet , you find that you can anticipate
16 a leakage from these lagoons , by their own
17 statements , of about 3 . 7 million gallons per year of
18 effluent into what we ' ve already talked about is a
19 rather high water table .
20 What ' s the danger with that? The biggest
21 danger is nitrogen poisonings of water supply . In
22 California , this situation has gotten so bad that the
23 farmers can ' t even feed their own cattle water that
24 is generated from their own sources because the
^
25 nitrogen is causing abortions of calves . For humans ,
99
1 anyone using a well , nitrogen poisoning of the water
2 causes Blue Baby Syndrome . Direct link , no question
3 about that .
4 There are a number of other diseases that
5 are transferred in the water . The main ones in this
6 particular case , Cryptosporidium , E . coli ,
7 Salmonella , and in the paper I gave you , there are
—
8 sites for each one of those as well as about two
9 other pages , single-spaced , of medical citations all
10 giving problems that are associated with operations
— 11 of this sort .
12 This operation will also put off a good
13 deal of gas . There are ways to stop the gas
14 generation in the lagoons ; unfortunately , those ways
15 do not appear to be employed here . Either lagoon
16 covers , which are an expensive option , or allowing a
17 crust to form over the top of the lagoon , are ways to
18 stop the odors . However , I would remind you that
19 this employs a settling pond area first , which takes
20 a lot of the fecal matter out of the water and then
21 destroys its ability to plug the holes in the lagoons
22 when it ' s put into the main lagoons .
23 The gases which come off these are of three
24 concerns . One , is methane , which is a global warming
25 concern , and we can step right by that one ; but the
100
1 other two are ammonia and hydrogen sulfate , which are
2 health concerns . The major issue with these is that
3 these gases both are heavier than air and tend to
_ 4 follow the ground .
5 If you will notice the way that the dairy
6 is situated , that means that those individuals that
7 are north and west of the dairy on any given day
8 could be expecting to receive the majority of the
9 gases . They ' re not distributed evenly across the
10 area .
11 Now , in addition to these things , we have
12 some other things which don ' t quite add up . The milk
13 parlor water use in here follows directly with
14 national standards . Wonderful . If that ' s the case ,
15 then why is the waste and wash water so much lower
16 than national standards? And if that ' s the case , how
17 are they going to get by with that many fewer
18 employees ?
19 I think what you have here is an
20 interesting application , which , in general , has been
21 put together for two purposes : One is to get the
22 permit , and the other is to get financing , as close
'+ 23 as I can see .
24 And by cutting down on the number of people
25 and cutting down on the use of expensive water , I
101
1 think your books probably look better as far as
2 getting a loan . That ' s just a guess . I can ' t come
3 up with any other regional -- reasonable conclusion
4 for why it comes out that way . The rest of the
5 figures , and anything else you might ask , are in the
6 paper .
7 I thank you for the opportunity to testify .
8 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Questions .
9 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Excuse me . I don ' t
10 want to get away without questions .
11 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Go ahead .
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE : I guess my question is
13 about your credibility , Dr . Weida . Give me a -- do
14 you know how many animals are in confined feeding
15 operations in Weld County?
�- 16 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : In Weld County .
17 According to the current study on the dairy
18 industry --
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE : No , I ' m talking about
^
20 the total animals in confined feeding operations in
21 Weld County .
22 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : No , I don ' t know the
23 total number of animals , no .
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Who is the Global
25 Resource Action Center for the Environment?
102
1 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : That ' s a group I work
2 for . And what it is is a group that finances me to
3 come and help local groups so that they don ' t have to
4 pay money for that .
5 COMMISSIONER GEILE : And your agriculture
6 background?
7 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : My background is in
8 engineering and economics . I have converted to being
9 an agricultural economist over the last three years ,
10 yes .
11 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Converted with what
12 kind of academic disciplines?
13 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : With academic
14 disciplines? My major field was originally
15 econometrics , which is the forecasting discipline of
— 16 economics and regional economics , which is the area
17 which judges impacts in regions .
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Thank you , sir .
19 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Just to add further ,
20 do you have any expertise in dairy farm operations?
21 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : I ' ve never been a
22 dairy farmer , no .
23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . And you said
24 that you were hired by someone to --
ma
25 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : No .
103
.. 1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : -- testify today?
2 I ' m sorry?
3 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : No , I did not . I said
4 I belong to an organization which offers to help
5 small local groups who are trying to put together
6 things on this type of operation simply because , as
7 you are probably well aware , it ' s very hard for those
8 people to put their money together to provide the
9 type of resources that comes from the people who are
10 proposing the operations .
^- 11 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . So I just
12 want to know , you were then requested by a group of
13 surrounding property owners to come to testify today?
14 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Yes . That ' s correct .
15 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : And also because
16 there is a statement in your introduction about the
17 dairy industry shift to industrial CAFOs outpace laws
.a 18 and regulations, have you had any experience being on
19 any of the rule-making or regulation-making
20 committees that have to deal with the CAFOs --
21 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Yes , I have .
22 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : You have been on
23 those committees ?
24 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : I have worked with Sue
isa
25 Jerrett when she was the prime institutor of the
104
1 committees that worked on the hogs , yes .
2 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : In the development
3 of CAFO regulations , were you a member of any of the
4 committees that helped to develop those regulations ?
5 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : No .
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Commissioner .
7 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : I just want to
^
8 attack -- not attack is the right word -- I want to
9 get your input on one statement you made about
10 economics , because you talked about economics , the
11 economics of dairies .
12 I got from your -- what you had to say that
13 your -- your idea that the money that was generated
14 or -- from the dairy was only the employees that were
15 on the dairy and then wondering where that was
.� 16 spent . I ' m wondering if , in that economic model , if
17 you looked at all at where the inputs from that dairy
18 came from and the value to the local area of those
19 money spent for inputs in the local area because you
20 say --
21 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Yeah .
22 COMMISSIONER BAXTER : -- none of it ' s going
23 to the local area . Well , they have to buy all their
24 feed , all their inputs . Did your economic model show
25 that?
105
1 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Well , in the first
2 place , neither I nor Colorado State has their own
3 economic model . We both use NPLAN, which is the
4 national model that ' s used by most of the states in
5 this case . Colorado State has just done a study on
6 this . What they -- what it indicates is , as any
7 regional economist knows , is that the economic impact
8 occurs where things are spent . We do know that the
9 larger the operation , the less likely they are to
10 spend money locally . And we do know from the
11 Colorado study that the major amount of the impact is
12 not from the people who are working milking the cows ,
13 it ' s from the people who are working the processing
14 facility . Should be no surprise there because the
15 multiplier ' s higher for factory type of operations
16 like that .
17 The question is how much you would get in
18 Weld County as - as compared to Fort Collins . I
19 would say probably no more than you ' re getting from
20 most of the other operations . And in a lot of the
.- 21 other operations I don ' t think you ' re getting very
22 much here .
23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Just so we ' re clear ,
24 have you run a model on this particular dairy?
25 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Yeah . I have , indeed .
106
1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : You ' ve run an
2 economic development model on this -- this particular
3 proposed dairy?
r.
4 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : I ran a model on this
5 dairy on the input numbers that Colorado State had ,
6 because I couldn ' t get those numbers to work out with
7 my back-of-the-envelope applications , so that you ran
8 the -- the Rims 2 model is a comparison of this ,
9 which is a Department of Commerce regional model ,
10 yeah .
11 MR . MORRISON : I have -- did you have
12 specific data for this dairy? Did you -- I think the
^
13 question that the commissioner was asking : Where did
14 the data come for these models that you ran --
15 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : The data that I
16 submitted was the data that they submitted in their
17 USR application . They said 15 employees , they said
18 4 , 000 head , they said 1700 milkers . Those are the
19 only data that any model would take into account .
20 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Did you take into
21 account where the feed was coming from?
22 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Yeah . And let me give
23 you a rule of thumb on that . Unless the company buys
24 every bit of feed that ' s produced in the county , the
25 people in the county have to price their feed on the
107
1 national level , because you have to consider that
2 you ' re going to sell the rest of your material
3 someplace else other than to the farm .
4 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Any other
5 questions ? Thank you .
6 DR . WILLIAM WEIDA : Uhm-hum .
7 MR . LES GELVIN : Hi , my name is Les Gelvin .
8 I live at 40719 Remington Road , just off Weld County
9 Road 15 , about 3 / 8 of a mile southwest of the
10 proposed dairy .
�- 11 And since you brought some questions up
12 that whoever the speaker before me was , could not --
13 local questions that could not be answered , I ' d like
14 for you to -- people to ask the applicant , and I can
15 verify some of his answers , that -- and even one of
16 the members of the planning and zoning board , and I
17 discussed that very , very little of his past inputs
18 as far as feed and anything like that have come from
19 Weld County . They are local but they ' re not Weld
20 County local , they ' re Larimer County , which is a
21 neighbor to him but , anyway , I just wanted to input
22 that . I didn ' t have that prepared but . .
23 I ' m -- I am a farmer and rancher . I have a
24 small farm-and-ranch real estate company . I have
25 farmed and ranched my whole life . I ' m pro ag , I ' m
108
1 pro dairy , and I ' m also an advocate for private
2 property rights . In fact , I have friends in the
3 dairy business .
4 Right now , I am in the process of working
5 with one that is -- has chosen to voluntarily move
6 out of a neighborhood which is very similar to where
7 this one is wanting to move into .
8 As far as I ' m concerned , the whole thing is
9 compatibility . You mentioned earlier on that you
10 wanted to remain on the issues in the current -- what
— 11 we were talking about . Even the applicant , his first
12 speech today , didn ' t really have anything to do with
13 the issues , it had to do with what a good dairyman he
14 was . I have no question about that . He may well be
15 the best dairyman in the country .
— 16 I don ' t know that . I don ' t doubt what he ' s
17 saying , but that has nothing to do , as far as I ' m
18 concerned , with this issue . The issue is the
19 neighborhood .
20 I also believe in the right-to-farm
21 covenant . And the right-to-farm covenant , as far as
22 I ' m concerned , can work two ways . You know , I -- we
23 accept his dairy . He has no complaints , he said
24 that . Nobody ' s ever complained . I don ' t know that ,
25 I believe that . Probably the reason is because the
109
1 feedlot was there before him and then he came in and
2 most people that live in the country accept the
3 right-to-farm covenant .
4 Some questions that I want to ask you are
5 also the same questions . My -- ironically , my speech
6 very much talks about some of the same things as the
7 one before me , and I ' ll just touch on those lightly
8 just to -- to express my concerns . How does this
9 dairy benefit Weld County? Okay? I want an answer
10 to that .
11 Is this dairy a proper operation? This
12 project , is it a gain or is it a loss to Weld County?
13 You guys need to think about that carefully , and
14 you ' re the ones to answer that and I trust that you
15 will . Okay?
16 I -- now , let ' s go on further . I don ' t
17 believe that the planning staff or the planning
18 commission can accurately recommend in their little
19 recommendations that they got to you , either approval
20 or disapproval of this dairy with the information
.- 21 that they had in hand when they made that point .
22 Okay?
23 Let me go on to explain that . The
24 information in the application is very heavily skewed
25 in favor of the applicant , obviously . The one -- one
110
1 of the -- the 15 employees thing was just brought up .
2 I had in mind that he ' s probably about half
3 right , which is -- which is more or less what he
4 says . I have friends in the dairy business -- and
5 you can also in the June issue of Fencepost , it had
6 an article about Morwai , the big dairy that we ' re
7 building down south , or is maybe built by now , I
8 don ' t know for sure . And that will back up many of
9 the numbers that I ' m going to throw out at you .
10 I ' ll try to keep them limited because I
11 know we ' re short on time . You know , the -- the --
12 while another question is : How do you justify the
13 statement that covering prime agricultural land with
14 concrete buildings , corrals and feed bunks is an
15 effort to preserve productive agricultural land?
16 That doesn ' t make sense to me . They are taking it
17 out of production , more than probably it -- a minor
^
18 subdivision or even a PUD would . Okay?
19 The next thing is they say that it ' s
^
20 compatible with the neighborhood because the
21 neighborhood are made of parcels of approximately 25
22 to 100 acres when , in fact , the parcels range from
23 less than 3 acres to over 100 , but the majority of
24 the neighboring properties are less than 25 acres .
25 Okay . They ' re primarily agriculturally
111
1 oriented rural residential properties with
2 small-scale livestock and crop productions . Let ' s
3 call a spade a spade . Let ' s not try to , you know ,
4 deviate .
5 Okay . And , now , probably the biggest
6 concern that I have that -- is the traffic issue .
7 The estimates -- and it says in the application about
8 five trucks or so a day and in the applicant ' s
9 testimony at planning and zoning , he said probably
10 about five trucks a day .
^ 11 Well , anybody that -- in the dairy business
12 or knows anything about dairy cows , a dairy cow eats
13 about 70 or 80 pounds of feed a day . Well , let ' s
14 figure it out . 4 , 000 cows , we ' re talking about
15 280 , 000 pounds of feed a day . That equates to about
16 4-1 / 2 semi loads of feed a day . That ' s just the feed
17 for the milk cows , for the -- for -- excuse me , 4 , 000
18 cows .
19 And I ' m going to talk about 4 , 000 cattle
20 because whether -- he ' ll tell you , probably , that he
0.4 21 has no intention of ever milking 4 , 000 cows there .
22 That ' s fine , I hope he ' s right . If this permit is
23 approved , he can do that . There ' s nobody can stop
24 him from doing that if he decides he wants to .
25 Also , there ' s nothing to prevent him from
112
1 selling it to somebody that will milk 4 , 000 cows a
2 day . So , therefore , I think we need to use the
3 numbers for 4 , 000 milking cows . Okay?
4 So now we ' ve got 4-1 / 2 semis just for feed .
5 Okay? Now we ' re going to haul the -- haul the milk
6 off and if -- according to his own examples , if he --
7 these cows produce like the cows that he ' s got now ,
^
8 then there ' s another 4-1 / 2 to 5 milks -- loads of
9 milk a day . Okay?
10 Now , there ' s the feed trucks running back
11 and forth from his current dairy to the new dairy .
12 And we know that ' s going to happen because part of
13 his reason for this location is to better utilize his
14 equipment and labor . Okay?
15 So now we ' re talking , you know , another
-- 16 several trucks a day . We don ' t know what that is .
17 Then we talk about the compost , and there ' s another
18 semi load or two a day there . Now , that ' s not -- I
^
19 haven ' t even mentioned 30- to 50-car trips a day for
20 employees and salesmen and management and things like
21 that because if you have 30 employees there ' s a very
22 good opportunity -- very good -- realistic that there
23 could be 30 cars , okay?
24 If we were to add all this up , we ' re up to
^
25 about 16 semi trucks a day added going through our
113
1 neighborhood . Okay? Not -- and not to mention 30 or
2 40 cars , or even 20 cars , you know , if we want to be
^
3 conservative . Okay?
4 Now , even if only half of the cows are
5 milkers , which is what he has said that he plans to
6 do , you ' re still going to cut these -- you will cut
7 these numbers down but not significantly . So we ' re
8 still probably looking at , oh , 12 or so semi loads a
9 day . They both go -- most of them will go in and
10 come back out , okay?
11 Now we ' re at 24 trips a day . Okay? If we
12 got 4 , 000 milkers , we ' re 32 trips a day with semi
13 trucks through our neighborhood . Is that
14 compatible? Let ' s think about this , okay?
15 Now -- and if you want to multiply that by
._ 16 365 , now we ' re up to about 9 , 000 trucks a day -- I
17 mean a year . Okay?
18 Okay . Part of these are -- part of the
19 reason I bring this stuff up is because I ' m having a
^
20 real hard time with the application . Like I said , it
21 is skewed so -- so far out of proportion that it is
22 not -- and the reason they did this , I believe , is to
23 make it look compatible .
24 I think the applicant and his agent knew
25 from the beginning that this is not compatible . This
114
1 does not work here . But , you know , if we tone it
2 down , if we tone it down on the application ,
^
3 therefore -- then we will -- it will look compatible .
4 And the -- you people don ' t have all -- I mean , you
5 have so much information , it ' s -- I don ' t see how you
6 get through it all anyway . So you look at the
7 application and go , "Well , yeah , that doesn ' t sound
8 so bad , " but when you really add it all up , it makes
9 a big , big difference .
10 This -- this project simply does not belong
11 in this location . I mean , I wish -- I wish the
12 applicant the best . I hope he can milk all the dairy
13 cows in the world , but this is just simply not the
14 place to do it .
15 So in closing , before anyone votes on this ,
�. 16 I ' d like to hear some answers . First of all , does
17 the business of one entity justify the potential
18 damage that this could create for so many
19 households? And when I say so many households ,
20 within a half mile of this location there are
21 approximately 25 houses . Within a mile there are
22 over 50 houses , within a mile of this location .
23 There are three new ones now under construction .
24 Okay?
25 Second , how does this project possibly --
115
1 how could it possibly be considered compatible?
2 And , third , how does this large commercial dairy
3 operation placed in this location benefit the people
4 of Weld County? Okay?
5 Thank you .
6 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Just a second . What
7 was your first question? I got two and three .
^
8 MR . LES GELVIN : How can this -- well ,
9 first was : Does the business entity -- does one
10 business entity justify the possible damage to so
11 many households ? And , second , was how can this
12 project possibly be considered compatible in this
13 community?
14 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay .
15 MR . LES GELVIN : And , third , how does this
.. 16 large commercial operation placed in this location
17 benefit the people of Weld County?
18 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay .
19 MR . LES GELVIN : And I think the people of
20 Weld County are counting on you guys to make the
21 right decision . Please , don ' t approve this project
22 in this location .
23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Question .
24 MR . LES GELVIN : Thank you .
25 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Mr . Gelvin , I ' m sorry I
116
1 didn ' t get your first name .
2 MR . LES GELVIN : Les . L E S .
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Are you related to Jean
4 Gelvin?
5 MR . LES GELVIN : Yeah .
6 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Okay . And --
7 MR . LES GELVIN : Now , wait a minute , I have
8 a sister named Jean , but she ' s not a Gelvin anymore ,
9 so no , I don ' t know . I don ' t know a Jean Gelvin .
10 COMMISSIONER VAAD : We have a letter --
11 MR . LES GELVIN : Oh , Jeanne . Oh , that ' s my
12 wife .
13 COMMISSIONER VAAD : All right . So she
14 wrote us a letter --
15 MR . LES GELVIN : Sorry , honey .
�. 16 COMMISSIONER VAAD : -- on November 13th --
17 MR . LES GELVIN : It changes from time to
18 time , you know .
19 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : I think you might be
20 answering a compatibility question later .
21 COMMISSIONER VAAD : I didn ' t mean to cause
22 you a problem .
23 MR . LES GELVIN : Can I rent a room?
24 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Anyway , I think you may
25 have mentioned verbally the thing that I found very
117
1 intriguing about offering to purchase the property ,
2 as in Jeanne ' s letter , it said at what you thought
3 would be a profit to Mr . Dye and he turned it down .
4 So you ' re -- I don ' t know , did you mention
5 that in your testimony to us just now?
6 MR . LES GELVIN : I don ' t think -- no , I
7 didn ' t . I didn ' t even talk about that issue . I
8 could , if you ' d like .
9 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Well , that ' s only --
10 MR . LES GELVIN : I really don ' t know very
11 much about it because I was not involved in that
12 offer at all , so I really don ' t know very much about
13 it . I know just because of what I do -- I know
14 pretty close to what he paid for it and I know that
15 1 . 3 million ' s a lot more than what he paid for it ,
.. 16 or in my opinion it is . To some --
17 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Were you at least aware
18 of some offer being tendered to see if that would
19 work out?
20 MR . LES GELVIN : Oh , yeah , they asked me
21 if I wanted to be involved in it .
22 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Okay .
23 MR . LES GELVIN : And I was not .
24 COMMISSIONER VAAD : So you could only
25 speculate about how the people who made that offer
118
1 would recoup their money one day , if possible?
2 MR . LES GELVIN : They asked me about that .
3 They asked me about , you know, what could we do with
4 it , how -- and my -- my answer to that was , "Well ,
5 you better be pretty careful because with
6 Amendment 24 , " and because of the property , as far as
7 I was concerned when Mr . Dye bought it , bought it at
8 top dollar , okay? And the -- it ' s -- when you buy
^ 9 something at top dollar , it ' s pretty hard to turn
10 around and recoup your money in a short period of
11 time because the market just won ' t allow that .
12 I -- I know that there were a lot of people
13 that looked at that property and we know who bought
14 it . So , therefore , you know , who -- I don ' t know
15 what you ' re trying -- what you want me to say , but
16 that ' s all I know about it .
17 And so , therefore , I warned -- there was
18 one party that was a major , major investor of the --
19 he wasn ' t all of it , but he was pretty big and he
20 said , "Well , how -- what are we going to do with this
21 if we get it bought? "
22 And I said , "Well , I think you need to be
23 very careful because you might not get your money
24 back . Or if you do it will be a long time , because
25 that ' s just the way the system works . "
119
1 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . Thank
2 you . Any other questions of Mr . Gelvin?
3 Okay . All right , thank you .
4 MR . LES GELVIN : Thank you .
5 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . It is --
6 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Who ' s buying dinner
7 tonight , by the way? Just kidding . Just kidding .
8 MR . LES GELVIN : No question about that .
9 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : It is 4 : 15 -- it is
10 4 : 15 . I ' m just going to ask , is there anyone who
^ 11 wanted to testify today who is not able to come back
12 Tuesday?
S
13 Okay . I will give you both the
14 opportunity , then , to comment today . Other than
15 that , as soon as you both are done commenting we will
16 recess and reconvene on Tuesday .
17 MR . PAUL MILLER : It will be short .
18 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : All right . If you
19 would please --
20 MR . PAUL MILLER : My name is Paul Miller .
21 I live at 6738 Russellville Road , Franktown ,
22 Colorado .
23 I ' m here representing Royal Crest Dairy .
24 We buy Terry ' s milk and we have for the last 12
25 years . We intend to continue to buy his milk . We ' ve
120
1 dealt with a lot of producers over the years and
2 we ' re blessed with many good producers through the
3 Colorado area .
4 I ' d like to say , however , in my opinion ,
5 that Terry Dye is one of the finest producers we ' ve
6 ever dealt with . His integrity ' s high , he operates a
7 very , very good operation , and we just think that
8 he ' s top quality .
9 I know this is a contentious issue and I
10 can understand what you have to do in making your
r- 11 decisions and I understand what -- how the neighbors
12 feel . But I do know that if Terry is awarded this
13 request , or if he is successful in this request , that
^
14 he will do what he says he ' s going to do and it won ' t
15 be a problem as far as trying to skirt any of the
16 agreements that he has agreed to .
17 And other than that , that ' s about all I
18 have to say . Thank you .
19 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Thank you .
20 Questions ? Could you tell us how long a
.. 21 relationship or dealings that you ' ve had with --
22 MR . PAUL MILLER : We ' ve -- our company ' s 73
23 years old , but we ' ve dealt with Terry for the past 12
24 years and intend to for some time .
25 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : 12 years . Okay . I
121
1 guess Commissioner Vaad has a question .
2 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Mr . Miller , could you
3 give me an estimate of the number of dairies of the
4 proposed size that are currently operating in the
5 Front Range area or Colorado or --
^ 6 MR . PAUL MILLER : You know , I ' m probably
7 not the one to ask that question . I ' m sure there are
8 some people here that could tell you . I know of one ,
9 Aurora Farms , which is down the road a ways here to
10 the south . I think they milk about 4 , 000 cows . I do
11 know that the cow -- that the operations that are
12 going in , because of the economics of it , are having
13 to grow and be much larger in order to cash-flow in
^
14 order to pay for what it cost now to put in a dairy .
15 I think Mr . Dye could probably put in a 4 , 000-cow
-- 16 dairy for just very little more than a 2 , 000-cow and
17 that ' s why you ' re seeing larger and larger companies .
18 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you . All
19 right . And I believe there ' s one more person .
20 MR . GREG ERTHAL : Hello . My name ' s Greg
.. 21 Erthal and I live at 40907 Weld County Road 15 .
22 That ' s just directly across from the dairy .
23 And I ' m here on behalf of myself and my two
24 sisters . We live just directly across from the dairy
25 and my family have lived there for just 3-1 / 2 years .
122
1 It has been a very nice place to live and it ' s really
2 quiet and really peaceful . The roads are safe to
3 ride our horses along . And at night , you can see
4 millions of stars that aren ' t visible from the city
5 because of the light pollution .
6 In the summer , there are cool , refreshing
7 breezes and except for an occasional dust storm , the
8 air is clean and clear . Sometimes at night when
9 driving down towards Fort Collins we pass near
10 Mr . Dye ' s other dairy . Even from the road the lights
11 sometimes block out the stars . And the glow created
12 by the lights is referred to me and my sisters as the
13 alien landing path .
14 And I ' m just wondering , will my house be
15 like that? Will we have to put curtains on the
16 windows to make it dark at night? It ' s very nice
17 during the summer evenings when we go outside and in
18 the nice cool air and there ' s a nice breeze blowing
19 down as usual from the northeast .
20 What kind of odors will this breeze carry
21 to our house? Will it always smell like cow waste in
22 the evenings , and instead of opening up the windows
23 at night to cool down the house , will we close them
24 to keep out the smell?
25 When I first moved out to where I do now , I
123
1 hoped to live there for a long time , perhaps my whole
2 life . And who wouldn ' t? It seems almost perfect . I
3 understand that Mr . Dye can put approximately 1 , 000
4 cows there , but is a 4 , 000-cow dairy really
5 reasonable? 1 , 000 cows would bring enough change .
6 What kind of impact will it have on my
7 surroundings ? Will it be a nice place to live with
8 lights on all day and all night? And with work
^ 9 around the clock? How many trucks will drive by at
10 night and how many workers will throw their trash
11 along the road? Will it be worth living there
12 anymore? How much will it change?
13 And so I ask you , on behalf of my sisters
14 and I and my future , to please vote no on this
15 special use permit .
16 Thank you .
17 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you . There
18 any questions for Mr . Erthal? No?
19 Thank you for coming today .
20 All right . I ' m sorry , are you not able to
21 come back on Tuesday?
22 MR . MIKE KATSAMPES : Correct .
23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay .
24 MR . MIKE KATSAMPES : Thank you . My name ' s
25 Mike Katsampes and I ' m the herd veterinarian for
124
1 Dyecrest Dairy and I ' m -- my practice is exclusively
2 dairy and most of my herds range from 500 to 3 , 000
3 head . And I -- oh , I reside at 24087 North Moore
4 Drive , Johnstown , Colorado .
5 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Thank you .
- 6 MR . MIKE KATSAMPES : Sorry . My association
7 with Terry started in 1992 . And I just wanted to say
8 that the facility ' s immaculate , well-kept pens and
9 bedding . Just to lay to rest the issue of whether
10 he ' s a good operator or not , I think it ' s lost here
11 that Terry ' s built an international class operation .
12 People from all over the world come to see
13 these cows . Thus , we ' ve really tried very hard to
14 keep cattle health appropriate and all his herd
15 health problems fall within normal parameters .
16 We have a very extensive vaccination
17 program . Somebody mentioned earlier BVD . There ' s a
18 number of diseases we ' ve vaccinated very heavily for
19 and we test periodically for BVD and to date we ' ve
20 not found any persistently infected animals .
21 Also , it ' s not to say that while strains do
22 come in periodically from local cattle and sheep , but
23 I do think the herd ' s health is very well protected .
24 When we do make herd health recommendations to
25 Terry , I agree with Tom that his compliance is
^
^
125
1 outstanding . Once we propose something , he gets
2 right on it and gets the job done .
3 On the issue of Johnes , we felt a couple
4 years ago that Johnes disease was a -- could be
5 considered a pretty bad consumer issue and we began
6 testing , with the help of CSU , in this herd . And
7 over the course of the last couple of years to date
8 we have not found a single positive animal on this
9 herd . And that ' s not to say that these new cattle
10 coming in don ' t have it . We ' ve done some limited
11 testing . Sometimes when you bring cattle in it ' s
12 very difficult to -- sometimes it ' s easy to test them
13 all and sometimes it ' s not , but I think the thing I
14 want to stress here is that his management techniques
15 over time lend to a herd that doesn ' t promote this
.. 16 disease or -- or the other ones that we ' ve been
17 talking about .
^
18 Also on the calves , we pasteurize the milk
19 to the calves and separate workers are used . Again ,
20 trying not to promote some of these diseases that are
,. 21 carried in the manures . But -- well , I just wanted
22 to make this quick . If you have any questions .
23 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Sure . Any
24 questions? No? Not at this time .
25 Thank you very much .
126
1 MR . MIKE KATSAMPES : Okay . Thanks .
2 CHAIRWOMAN KIRKMEYER : Okay . Question for
3 the board : It looks like we have violation hearings
4 on Tuesday that start at 10 : 00 . Is -- it looks like
5 the only day that we actually could continue this to .
6 So 10 : 30 , approximately?
7 All right . At this time , the board will
8 recess and we will reconvene at 10 : 30 on Tuesday ,
9 December 12th , at which time we will finish up the
10 public hearing and continue at that point .
11 ( Hearing recessed at 4 : 25 p . m . )
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
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25
127
1 REPORTER ' S CERTIFICATE
2 I , Mary J . George , a Registered
3 Professional Reporter , Registered Merit Reporter ,
4 Certified Realtime Reporter , and Notary Public within
5 the State of Colorado , appointed to take the public
6 hearing , do hereby certify that the hearing was taken
7 by me at 915 10th Street , Greeley , Colorado , on
8 December 6 , 2000 ; that the proceedings were
9 thereafter reduced to typewritten form by means of
10 computer- integrated transcription ; that the
�- 11 foregoing is an accurate transcript of the
12 proceedings at that time .
13 I further certify that I am not related to ,
14 employed by , nor of counsel for any of the parties or
15 attorneys herein , nor otherwise interested in the
16 result of the within action .
17 In witness whereof , I have affixed my
18 signature and seal this 15th day of February , 2001 .
19 My commission expires October 2 , 2002 .
20 \`�ym'IIIGe
GeO„��
_ 2 1 `o P•.• 9C, V
ita
*Onity MARY J7- E
22 -� * Regi ter d rofessional Reporter
Certificate of Merit Holder
'- 23 NJ:,• Certified Realtime Reporter
24 % O II OTO'
25
PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
Page 1
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
^ Page 2
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
Page 7
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
Page 12
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Wilson George Court Reporters,Inc.
PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
Page 13
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Wilson George Court Reporters,Inc.
PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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PUBLIC HEARING of DECEMBER 6,2000
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