HomeMy WebLinkAbout20012341.tiff 1 STATE OF COLORADO
2 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, WELD COUNTY
3 January 10, 2001
4
5 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE RECORDED MEETING
6
7 Request of JANET REAM for a Site Specific Development Plan and Use
8 by Special Review Permit No. 1283 , for a Guest Farm (extended
9 learning center) in the Agricultural Zone District .
10
11 COMMISSIONER MEMBERS PRESENT
12 M. J. GEILE, Chairman GLENN VAAD, Pro-Tem
13 WILLIAM H. JERKE ROBERT D. MASDEN DAVID E . LONG
14 ALSO PRESENT
15 ESTHER GESICK, Acting Clerk to the Board
16 LEE MORRISON, Esq. , Assistant County Attorney
17 SHERI LOCKMAN and MONICA MIKA, Department of Planning Services .
18 PAM SMITH, Weld County Dept . of Public Health.
19 DON CARROLL, Weld County Public Works Department .
20 SPEAKING TO THE REQUEST
21 JANET L. REAM, Applicant
22 WILLIAM SOUTHARD, Esq. , representing Union Ditch Company
23 GARY ALLES, President, Union Ditch Company
24 DENNIS HOSHIKO, Surrounding property owner
25
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L-MAC R S T (303)798-0380 WeldCty6OACC - Ream Request
eano-e tt O 2001-2341
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1 [The tape recorded proceeding as set forth on page one is
2 transcribed as follows : Note: the microphone at the podium is not
3 recording properly.]
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE : It' s Wednesday, January 10 . I will
5 convene the Board of County Commissioners for three hearings that
6 we have this morning. Esther, would you do roll call , please .
7 MS . GESICK: Robert Masden - here; Dave Long - here;
8 William Jerke - here; Glenn Vaad - here; Mike Geile - here.
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Let the record show that all five
10 commissioners are in attendance . We will call up first docket,
11 2000-79 . Mr. Morrison, would you make record, please .
12 MR. MORRISON: Docket 2000-79 is the application of Janet
13 L. Ream for a site specific development plan and use by special
14 review, number 1283 , for a Guest Farm, an extended learning
15 facility, in the A-agricultural zoned district .
16 Legal description, Lot A of RA346, part of the southeast
17 quarter of section 14, township 5, north range 65 west of the 6th
18 PM, Weld County, Colorado . Notice was published December 28 , 2000
19 in the South Weld Sun.
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Staff, are you going to be our
21 presenter this morning on this docket? To make sure we are on the
22 same page, it is this the same one that we' re talking about .
23 MS . LOCKMAN: (Speaking from malfunctioning microphone)
24 Yes . Sherri Lockman, Department of Planning Services . This is
25 special use permit of 1283 . Janet Ream has applied for a site
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1 specific development plan, a special review permit for a guest
2 farm, which is actually in a extended learning facility in an
3 agricultural zoned district .
4 (Inaudible) is located on 109 acres, north of and
5 adjacent to State Highway 34, and west of and adjacent to Weld
6 County Road 47 , section line . The site is one-half mile east of
7 City of Greeley. The surrounding properties are agricultural in
8 nature, and the South Platte River is directly north of the site .
9 Weld County Planning has determined a special use permit
10 conditions have been met (inaudible) would make the proposal
11 consistent with the Weld County Code, and ensure that there are
12 adequate provisions for the protection of the health, safety and
13 welfare of the inhabitants of the county.
14 Thirteen referral agencies reviewed this case. Ten
15 responded favorably or included conditions that have been addressed
16 to development standards and conditions of approval . (Inaudible)
17 the Union Colony Fire Protection District, (inaudible) water and
18 fireflow and in essence to significant ecological areas . These
19 concerns were addressed prior to scheduling the Board of County
20 Commissioners hearing.
21 (Inaudible) -- referral from the Weld County Airport
22 indicates (inaudible) location of the site, and in the approach
23 pattern departure corridor for the airport' s new primary runway.
24 A development (inaudible) has been included indicating that the
25 site may be impacted by airport operations .
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1 Should the board wish, a condition of approval may be
2 added to place an avigation easement on the property. The
3 avigation easement will protect the airport from liability.
4 (Inaudible) have been received from surrounding property owners .
5 The applicants were required to submit an agreement with
6 the Union Ditch Company, to (inaudible) -- has been actually
7 incorporated in (inaudible) or show evidence that (inaudible)
8 changes have been made to mitigate the concerns of the ditch
9 company. The applicant was unable to reach an agreement with the
10 ditch company, therefore the Board of County Commissioners must
11 determine if the applicant has made an active attempt to mitigate
12 the concerns, or additional -- additional, conditional approval
13 (inaudible) may be added.
14 You will find a letter from William Southard, the
15 attorney for the Union Ditch Company, in referrals . Mr. Southard
16 and Gary Alles, from the Union Ditch Company are also present today
17 to answer any questions you may have, and the applicant is prepared
18 to answer questions (inaudible) concerned the ditch company.
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Sheri, are you suggesting that we add an
20 aviation (sic) easement as a condition of approval?
21 MS . LOCKMAN: That suggestion actually came from the
22 county attorney. Lee Morrison has (inaudible) -- with another case
23 that has an avigation easement .
24 CHAIRMAN GEILE : So that' s something that we' ll deal with
25 when we get done with the applicant .
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1 MR. MORRISON: There' s another possibility, and that
2 would simply be a note on the plat indicating that there' s a --
3 that the party should be aware of the use of the airspace . It
4 would be less -- I guess, a less radical -- no, I wouldn' t say
5 radical -- a less onerous form of restriction to put it on the
6 approval plat . That would be the other option.
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Thank you. As far as the fireflow from
8 the fire district, is that dealt with in the --
9 MS . LOCKMAN: That has been dealt with. They --
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE: The applicant can talk about --
11 MS . LOCKMAN: -- thought they were going to have an
12 extension of existing water (inaudible) but they worked it out with
13 a well they have on the property.
14 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Is that a condition of approval, or is
15 that off into --
16 MS . LOCKMAN: It required a board hearing. It' s been
17 taken care of to the (inaudible) --
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE: That' s been taken care of, so that' s
19 eliminated. Okay. Just wanted to make sure . And then the access .
20 Don, I wonder if you could show us where the access to the
21 properties are, just to make sure we've got everything on --
22 MR. CARROLL: Okay. Good morning. Don Carroll .
23 Department of Public Works .
24 The main access point is located off from U.S . Highway
25 34, where Weld County Road 43 would be extended. Actually, it' s
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1 right on the section line, right there . It is the existing access .
2 One of our requirements, prior to recording the plat 3-A,
3 was that the applicant get with CDOT, Colorado Department of
4 Transportation, to verify the access point; that it would be
5 adequate to accommodate the facility.
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Let me make sure I understand, Don, if
7 you could. So 3-A, the Colorado Department of Transportation, or
8 CDOT, has been scratched off . Do you -- does that have to be
9 obtained from CDOT, or who does it have to be obtained from?
10 MR. CARROLL: Basically, they need to verify with CDOT.
11 That would be Gloria HiceIdler, and I believe that Sheri has
12 verified that has been completed.
13 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Do we want to make reference to CDOT, as
14 one that they need to resolve that particular item with, which
15 would be 3-A, Sheri?
16 MS . LOCKMAN: (Inaudible) made application with CDOT, if
17 they want to (inaudible) -- the use .
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Well, does that mean "A" can be
19 scratched or eliminated?
20 MS . LOCKMAN: Yes, they can. There were a few things
21 attached which actually were deleted, and I think Don was going to
22 mention those, though.
23 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Why don' t I shut up and let Don
24 do his job?
25 MR. CARROLL: Okay. Continuing on through some of our
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1 requirements that the applicant has completed. The 3-E, we' re
2 talking --
3 CHAIRMAN GEILE: So 3-A, we would delete .
4 MR. CARROLL: That' s correct . 3-E, we' re talking about
5 the applicant shall upgrade to a 2-lane gravel road surface . We've
6 talked to the applicant on that, and we are requiring that they are
7 supplying three inches of aggregate base course with a 26-foot wide
•
8 surface . So that would take care of that item.
9 3-F, we are talking about traffic circulation in a
10 traffic study. We've been working with the applicant on providing
11 adequate turning radius, automobile parking, handicap parking,
12 loading areas for buses and recreational vehicles . They have
13 supplied a traffic study to us, plus the site plan, and this has
14 been reviewed by our traffic engineer. And we can remove that
15 item; we' re comfortable with that .
16 COMMISSIONER GEILE : So that would be 3-F?
17 MR. CARROLL: Yes .
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay.
19 MR. CARROLL: 3-G. This is our stormwater drainage item.
20 They have supplied to us a stormwater drainage plan. This has been
21 reviewed and approved, so we can remove that item.
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE: So that' d be 3-G?
23 MR. CARROLL: Yes .
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay.
25 MR. CARROLL: Those are all the items I have .
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1 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Keep going. We wouldn' t have any
2 conditions here . That' s good. Okay.
3 MS . LOCKMAN: I do have one change --
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Sheri .
5 MS . LOCKMAN: -- that (inaudible) -- Department was
6 requesting. And I did hand you a sheet on it that you have in
7 front of you. It' s (inaudible) -- number 3 , you need to refer to
8 section 30-20-100 . 5 instead of 100 .
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Section number three, development
10 standard number three.
11 MS . LOCKMAN: Yes .
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE : All solid -- all liquid and solid
13 wastes, so. forth and so forth, needs to refer to Section
14 30-20-100 . 5 , rather than -- so we need to -- 100 . 5, it was 100 .
15 You need to add the point five to it . Okay.
16 Is there anything else from staff? From counsel? Are
17 there any questions that the board might have of staff?
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Commissioner Long.
19 COMMISSIONER LONG: I didn' t know if -- since this is in
20 that airport traffic -- or impact area, would any future funds be
21 impacted by this potential facility?
22 MS . LOCKMAN: Not that I know of . Mr. Morrison, would
23 you like to answer that (inaudible)
24 MR. MORRISON: The airport did not, or their manager did
25 not raise the issue in the same fashion they did on an earlier
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1 case . And even in that earlier case, I think -- which never was
2 finally decided, so I guess we don' t -- and I'm referring to the
3 Carlson case .
4 COMMISSIONER LONG: Mm-hmm.
5 MR. MORRISON: A direct effect on existing funds really
6 didn' t appear to me to exist from the contracts . You know, the
7 record here does not contain as strong an objection from the
8 airport as that case did. Just judging this on relative intensity
9 of their objection, this appears not to be one that they' re
10 claiming imperils funding.
11 COMMISSIONER LONG: Thank you.
12 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Any other questions, Commissioner? Any
13 other questions from the commission. If not, is the applicant,
14 Janet Ream, or her authorized agent or representative here this
15 morning? Would you come to the podium. Please give your name and
16 address for the record, please .
17 MS . REAM: (Speaking from malfunctioning microphone) My
18 name is Janet Ream, and I presently live at 412 North 71st Avenue.
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Is there anything that you would like to
20 say to address the board this morning, concerning your application?
21 MS . REAM: Not particularly. Sheri covered most of that .
22 I do realize there still is a question with the Union Ditch
23 Company, which we (inaudible) needs to be directing that .
24 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Commissioner Vaad.
25 COMMISSIONER VAAD: That was my question, Miss Ream.
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1 Would you mind kind of rehearsing what their request was and what
2 your response was, and where we' re at, with not having come to
3 final resolution, as far as the Union Ditch Company is concerned?
4 MS . REAM: On the east side of this property there is
5 what they call a tail water ditch, waste ditch, for the Union Ditch
6 Company. We are the last shareholders on that ditch. And so it
7 traverses on the east side and then goes down the block on a
8 concrete structure, and then to the bottom land to the river.
9 And they had concerns about the children maybe getting
10 injured. We've indicated that it was a totally supervised
11 activity, and I feel comfortable that will not happen.
12 They are requesting that we build an eight-foot chain
13 link fence the full course of that ditch, and to allow about a 50-
14 foot easement from the ditch to that fence . It would have a gate
15 that was locked, and they would have a key for access . I think
16 that' s about what I understand it to be .
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: What was your estimate if you were
18 to build that fence? What would the cost have been to build that
19 fence?
20 MS . REAM: Actually we didn' t go through that . We argued
21 that with appropriate supervision of the children, it was not
22 necessary. We consulted with an attorney, and he thought that it
23 means an enticement, in this case does not require . And we kind of
24 left it at that . We argued that it was not a danger. It' s not a
25 deep ditch or a wide ditch. It' s kind of like a (inaudible) -- one
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1 foot, two foot at the most, of water depth.
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Any other questions, Commissioner?
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I wondered, do we have an overhead,
4 that shows, Sheri, the lay of the land, so we could see in
5 relation, what' s the east side of the property, and the approximate
6 location of the ditch.
7 MS . LOCKMAN: This is probably the best we have . And if
8 the ditch actually runs where the road would run, on the east side
9 of that .
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Mrs . Ream, could you point out where
11 the ditch is on that?
12 MS . REAM: It comes under the road, and it just goes
13 straight to road -- right on that line . It just happens to fall
14 inside -- right inside or along the property line, and it is
15 maintained by Union Ditch Company. And we have an easement
16 agreement that allows them two rods easement for the full length of
17 the ditch.
18 The road that we' re going to improve is only 26 feet, and
19 could probably determine pretty much that boundary, by the time
20 we' re finished, and we feel that' s sufficient, that with
21 supervision the children will not get out, you know, (inaudible)
22 that ditch and that road.
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Two rods is 33 feet?
24 MS . REAM: Right .
25 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you.
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1 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Are there any other questions from
2 the board? Miss Ream, I did have one, and if I could follow up on
3 Commissioner Vaad' s question this morning.
4 In your letter to the Union Ditch Company, dated December
5 22nd, you, in your -- was this written by you or was it written by
6 your attorney? Or is there an attorney involved? It seems to
7 indicate that it was -- that you had consulted with an attorney
8 concerning the matter. The question is, the attorney was never
9 mentioned or identified in the letter?
10 MS . REAM: I wrote the letter, and I faxed it to the
11 attorney, and he recommended a few changes in (inaudible) --
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Okay. Has your attorney ever been
13 in contact or counseled with the attorney of the Union Ditch
14 Company?
15 MS . REAM: No. We were hoping to avoid that, and maybe
16 settle that here.
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Okay. Thank you. Are there any
18 other things that you' d like -- anything else you' d like to present
19 to this board this morning --
20 MS . REAM: No.
21 COMMISSIONER GEILE : -- concerning your application?
22 MS . REAM: Not now.
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. If not then, this is a public
24 hearing. Is there anyone in the audience -- thank you, we' ll go
25 ahead and conduct the public hearing. Is there anyone in the
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1 audience that would wish to speak to this application this morning?
2 If so, would you come forth and present your name and address?
3 MR. SOUTHARD: (Speaking from malfunctioning microphone)
4 Good morning. I'm William H. Southard. Off iced at Room 309, Wells
5 Fargo Bank Building, 1025 - 9th Avenue, Greeley.
6 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you .
7 MR. SOUTHARD: Good morning, gentlemen. I represent the
8 Union Ditch Company, and our concern that it does become what is
9 technically known as an attractive nuisance . And we' re aware of
10 the problems -- concerned with having the ditch running there . A
11 portion of this goes off of the -- let' s say the bench line, and
12 goes down into the river bottom, and the water flows rather fast
13 there, on this tail ditch.
14 Now the purpose of a tail ditch is to pick up where the
15 ditch runs along its course, the rain runoff from the land above
16 it . Sometimes it can be in big volumes .
17 And a statutory tail ditch is required to return to the
18 river that excess water, which is picked up, which, if the ditch
19 was not there, would eventually become part of the river. So
20 the river is not technically, a drop for drop, but it' s somewhat
21 maintained. And if there are extensive rainfalls, will come to the
22 flow of the river.
23 Of course, the river has appropriation down to Julesburg,
24 and all along the way. So it' s a major thing.
25 The specific thing we' re concerned with these children
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1 being brought into the area, and we'd like to have some
2 indemnification, some form of (inaudible) us harmless, and that, of
3 course, will affect our insurance ratings, because we would have to
4 carry insurance.
5 They' re going to have, down at the bottom of it, and at
6 the river bottom, the so called fish and duck ponds down there .
7 And some of our water from the tail ditch, and so forth, will
8 undoubtedly go into that . Those are all attractive things for the
9 children, we agree, that this is attractive and pleasant to look at
10 and the use . But the addition of them, we don' t want the total
11 responsibility of bringing these people in the area. That' s our
12 concern. It' s not just that, if they were all adults, basically
13 they could take care of it .
14 The applicant has filed, also, with the water --
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Mr. Southard, excuse me for
16 interrupting you. I wonder if we could take just a two minute
17 recess, just for two minutes .
18 MR. SOUTHARD: Sure .
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: We need to talk to counsel . You got
20 a minute, counsel?
21 MR. MORRISON: You want to go into executive session,
22 then.
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE : We need to go into executive session
24 for just a couple minutes, to make sure that we are doing things --
25 MR. MORRISON: And you need four of the five in
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1 concurrence to do that .
2 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr. Chairman, I would move that we go
3 into executive session for the purpose of consideration of counsel .
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Of determining a conflict of
5 interest, on one member of the board. So if you wouldn' t mind
6 meeting with Commissioner Jerke for a minute, and then we' ll
7 reconvene .
8 MR. MORRISON: All right . There' s a concurrence of at
9 least four, Your Honor.
10 [Recorder turned off . Recorder turned back on. ]
11 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Now I can do it . For the record,
12 Commissioner Vaad, seconded by Long, made a recommendation and a --
13 or a motion and a second to go into executive session so we could
14 resolve a conflict of interest with Commissioner Jerke. So if I
15 could turn that over to you, counsel .
16 MR. MORRISON: Yes . Mr. Chairman, Mr. Jerke and I
17 discussed what might be conceived as a -- or perceived as a
18 conflict, and I' ll let him describe what the facts are.
19 But once -- he' s going to disclose that, and then if you
20 will ask if any of the parties have an objection, it' s my view that
21 it really doesn' t constitute the kind of conflict that would result
22 in a benefit or detriment to Mr. Jerke, based on his decision, and
23 it shouldn' t impede him. But if someone else objects, we' ll deal
24 with their objection.
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Would you disclose your relationship
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1 with Union Colony Board, Bill?
2 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Union Ditch Company, I think, Mr.
3 Chairman.
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Ditch Company.
5 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Yeah. I'm a very small stockholder
6 in the Union Ditch Company.
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Not Union Colony Board. I'm sorry.
8 COMMISSIONER JERKE: I own two shares out of, I believe,
9 250 shares, gross . So that would be one 125th, or a less than one
10 percent interest . I do own it with my brother Chuck, which means
11 that would be even further cut in half, in a sense.
12 I do want to disclose that early on in the proceedings
13 here, so that people realize that I guess I'm somewhat of a player,
14 even though I'm sitting up here . But a very small player, I think.
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE : I wonder if I could call Janet Ream
16 back to the podium, please. The applicant . Mrs . Ream, you've
17 heard the -- could you please give your name and address, again,
18 please, for the record?
19 MS . REAM: Janet Ream, 412 No. 71st Avenue, Greeley.
20 COMMISSIONER GEILE : You've heard the disclosure of
21 Commissioner Jerke, and the position of counsel . If you wish to
22 oppose this, or to agree, otherwise -- if you wish to oppose it,
23 then that could be cause for Commissioner Jerke to make a decision
24 to remove himself from the proceedings .
25 Of if you concur that this not significant enough to move
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1 ahead with the proceedings, we will move ahead with Commissioner
2 Jerke as a part of the board for this hearing.
3 MS . REAM: I have no problem.
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Thank you. Would the representative
5 from the Union Ditch Company please come forward? Bill, are you
6 their representative, or the president, or whoever you want?
7 (No audible response. )
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE : And I wonder if you could give your
9 name and address for the record, please?
10 MR. ALLES : Good morning. My name is Gary Alles . My
11 address is 26285 Weld County Road 47, Greeley. And I also am a
12 stockholder in the ditch company, and am presently the president of
13 the ditch board of the Union Ditch Company.
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Sir, do you see any problem, as far
15 as conflict of interest, on the part of Mr. Jerke, that would not
16 permit him to continue in these proceedings?
17 MR. ALLES : Personally, I don' t think we, as the ditch
18 company, has a problem.
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE : So for the record, you do not?
20 MR. ALLES : I do not . I might state right now that
21 during my presentation here, I might bring up another item that Mr.
22 Jerke might consider again that it might be a conflict of interest .
23 It directly involved something that happened with the ditch company
24 a few years ago. So -- but I have no problem with it .
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: If it' s okay, then counsel, unless
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1 you see something here, then if it' s okay with the Board of County
2 Commissioners . Thank you, sir, for coming.
3 MR. MORRISON: Generally, if some -- if you apply the
4 same standard you would to interest in the corporation, or
5 something, less than five percent is really considered diminimus
6 interest .
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. So if it' s -- thank you, sir,
8 in coming before us . If there' s no problem with the board, do we
9 need to make a motion and a second to continue?
10 (No audible response. )
11 All right . Then let' s go ahead and continue with the
12 proceedings . Thank you, sir. Mr. Southard, if you would mind --
13 and however you want to continue . We interrupted you right in the
14 middle of your presentation, but it was important that we get this
15 resolved. Thank you for your patience .
16 MR. SOUTHARD: Thank you. The Union Ditch has its
17 headgate near Twin Bridges, which is out there a little bit east of
18 Milliken, and it' s on the South Platte River. It irrigates a
19 substantial area, including the area close to LaSalle, where
20 Commissioner Jerke would be involved. And it goes out to the
21 east -- east of LaSalle, primarily. And does not -- it does not
22 go as far as the -- it adjoins the Latham area, as far as
23 irrigation systems .
24 But the Union Ditch, also, in it' s -- a number of part of
25 it, does -- is a filler ditch for the Latham Reservoir, for
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1 instance . So it' s a substantial operation.
2 And we are concerned with trying to be good citizens .
3 They want to maintain this . Then when something is brought in that
4 we feel could be -- like the old railroad turntables which were the
5 attractive nuisance of the olden days -- we don' t want to have any
6 accidents there, at least, as to (inaudible) .
7 We have enough trouble running the ditches . When there' s
8 a road along the ditch -- in some areas, there is a ditch riders
9 road -- have trouble even with somebody surf boarding there . Tie a
10 rope onto a pickup truck, and goes along the ditch riders road,
11 then whoops there' s a headgate up there, and their rope hits that,
12 and puts our ditch company in liability for creating that as an
13 attractive legal . So that' s our main concern.
14 Now relative to the -- they wanted to have some form of
15 indemnification and responsibility to patrol this . I agree with
16 Mrs . Ream in stewardship, having someone there with the children
17 supervising them, is the best plan. But we know that it' s most
18 difficult with active children.
19 So I'm not trying to compare that . But we would like to
20 have a fence in there to discourage the children. And we have
21 suggested a six-foot, not an eight foot, fence.
22 The application for the decree of water which they have
23 for their storage pond is also somewhat of a concern, because it
24 affects the river. And of course, this would be a new, 2000
25 (inaudible) decree, so that they' re relatively junior on the river
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1 to divert it . But there' s always those problems, and there' s no
2 pond containment that go along the flow of the rivers, along the
3 ditches . But we view these as trouble points, and especially when
4 they' re picking up storm water, like from the tail ditch.
5 If there' s any fences and (inaudible) especially in this
6 case, we want to be sure that they -- there are enough keys to
7 those locks on the gate that if anybody had any trouble in the
8 ditch, that public authority users, as well as ditch people, could
9 all get in so -- to better rescue people .
10 I think that that' s (inaudible) the main parts that we
11 have, there are a number of people from the Union Ditch Water that
12 are here to -- if you need further explanation.
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Okay. Are there any questions of
14 Mr. Southard? Commissioner Vaad?
15 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr. Southard, you heard the
16 applicant, Miss Ream, say that in her opinion the level of the
17 water in the ditch is around a foot at this end, at this point .
18 MR. SOUTHARD: It varies . Of course, if we have some
19 storm water there, it can go up (inaudible) but it' s on the -- it' s
20 at the end of one of the laterals . It' s not the end of the ditch;
21 it' s at the end of one of the laterals . And the -- the diversions
22 of this water are not large flow, but they are enough there to
23 sweep small children off their feet .
24 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And you mentioned you would like some
25 kind of indemnification. There was a letter sent by Mrs . Ream' s
L-MAC R G T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
21
1 attention, Gary Alles, dated December 22nd --
2 MR. SOUTHARD: I have that .
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. In the second paragraph, it
4 says, in the second sentence, "We are fully aware of the
5 possibility of injuries and litigation brought by. . . " on and so
6 forth. And then I think they say that they -- in one of these
7 places, I read where they accept responsibility for that. Is that
8 a form of indemnification that she signs the letter?
9 MR. SOUTHARD: Well, that' s really not all that we' d
10 like. We' d like to be sure that there' s an insurance carrier for
11 her premises, and include us as an additional insured. Now, of
12 course, the company has to carry -- does carry some liability
13 insurance, but the extent of it, we often wonder, if you have
14 tragedies, do they cover it .
15 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So if I understand what you just
16 said, that if you were named in the insurance liability --
17 MR. SOUTHARD: That would help.
18 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. That would be --
19 How -- what would be the lineal dimension of the fence
20 that you are asking for?
21 MR. SOUTHARD: We haven' t asked for -- you mean, the
22 length of it?
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yes .
24 MR. SOUTHARD: Oh. Wherever the childrens' areas are,
25 that border the ditch. It' s bad enough -- see, when it' s
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtysOACC - Ream Request
22
1 irrigation -- you've got to understand -- by the way, our
sc 2 legislation, and I called it to the attention of some of our local
ac 3 legislators, that some legislation goes back to 1878, some to 1883 ,
e4 4 concerning the ditches, and the blasting of ditches . And that' s --
5 for instance, this last year they had that fireman that fell in the
80 6 storm ditch down in Denver, storm waste way there .
7 And some of that legislation could be made (inaudible)
8 because they first protected towns of ten thousand, and the No. 3
9 ditch that goes through Greeley was affected, and No. 3 was
t 10 responsible for upping that from ten thousand to thirty-five
11 thousand, and to its current 70, 000 population base, before they
12 have to lattice the ditch.
el 13 But it is a severe problem. And I wonder if the
h{ 14 legislation will cover, that will be coming out this year. Rep.
15 Williams is going to carry a bill on it .
16 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I'm not familiar with the term
ij 17 "lattice" the ditch.
18 MR. SOUTHARD: That means that they would -- particularly
e: 19 if you have a flume, that they would -- where it goes into it,
of 20 you'd have a sloping thing, so that all the trashy things would
1 21 wash up on it, if you don' t have that lattice (inaudible) in front
nj 22 of it . It' s like an input . And it' s a severe problem that affects
23 all the ditch companies .
1 24 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Are there any other questions of Mr.
25 Southard? If not, thank you.
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
23
1 MR. SOUTHARD : Thank you.
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Is there anyone else in the audience
3 that wishes to speak to this? Yes, sir. If you wouldn' t mind
4 coming up and giving your name and address, again, we' d appreciate
5 it, for the record.
6 MR. ALLES : Thank you. My name is Gary Alles, 26285 Weld
7 County Road 47, Greeley, 80631 . And I am president of the Union
8 Ditch Board at the present time.
9 I just wanted to talk a little bit more about the safety
10 issue, and just the -- you know, our ditch in general . The first
11 thing I'd like to address is, I have the letter here from Mrs . Ream
12 from September 12th of 2000 .
13 And I want to point out to Mrs . Ream, also, that we' re
14 not trying to, you know, be a bad neighbor. They' re a stockholder
15 in our ditch. You know, we don' t want to keep them from doing what
16 they want to do . We just want to make sure that our side is
17 covered, because there is considerable liability out there right
18 now, as far as ditch companies . (Clearing throat) -- excuse me .
19 Anyway, this letter that she had mailed to me, after we
20 notified the planning commission that we weren' t notified about the
21 hearing out there -- I notified the planning commission that Mrs .
22 Ream addressed a letter to me . She states that they' re in the
23 process of obtaining a special use permit .
24 She says she wants to operate a day care for school age
25 children, and this program would be in operation approximately 80
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
24
1 days a year. And five, four-day weeks in the fall, five four-day
2 weeks in the spring, and eight five-day weeks in the summer.
3 "I anticipate no more than two buses to deliver and pick
4 up children each day, during the school year program, and no more
5 than 30 parents and five employees entering/leaving the property
6 each morning and evening for the summer program. "
7 If you kind of calculate that up, it' s going to be, what
8 it sounds to me like a lot of kids out there at one time, or could
9 be. And I don' t know how many employees they' re going to have.
10 Most of these kids are going to be unfamiliar with
11 farming areas . And if they see a ditch with water running there,
12 and kind of a slide, I call it, as Mr. Southard alluded to, going
13 from the benchline down to the river, some of those kids see that,
14 and they' re going to be -- they' re gonna want to go over there and
15 see what' s going on. Just the way of nature .
16 So it sounds to us like there' s going to be quite a few
17 kids out there. Maybe she can address that some more .
18 One other thing, as far as the access road, it will
19 traverse directly alongside our ditch. In fact, it probably will
20 go along some of our easements . I mean, that' s negotiable, but
21 the ditch will be directly alongside the road that will enter
22 the property.
23 As far as the drainage pattern that they' re supposed to
24 address, I also conclude with Mr. Southard that there needs to be
25 something specifically put in there about how these culverts are
L-MAC R S T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
25
1 going to be installed. They may have to have grates on them to
2 keep the kids out of them, and things like that, you know, which
3 we have nothing like that on record now, with this agreement .
4 And as far as the amount of water that we' ll run in
5 that ditch, Mr. Vaad asked the question. I live just a half mile
6 north -- excuse me, three-quarters of a mile south of where this
7 property is, and the ditch goes along my property. And if we get a
8 bad storm, there will definitely be more than a foot of water in
9 the ditch. It could be three-feet deep.
10 I guess one other point I wanted to bring up. Our ditch
11 travels through the town of LaSalle . Through the town, there' s
12 fences up along the subdivisions . And I know it' s not going to
13 keep every kid out, but it' s sure a deterrent .
14 And just recently, in the last five, six years, there was
15 a, I guess I'd call it, a mini-subdivision east of LaSalle . And it
16 was approved, and we had negotiated a fence put up, just simply for
17 the safety of the kids . And there you' re only talking probably a
18 couple of kids per household. Here we' re talking bunches of kids .
19 So that' s our main concern, is the safety.
20 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Commissioner Jerke .
21 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess
22 that' s my cue, Gary, to --
23 MR. ALLES : Okay.
24 COMMISSIONER JERKE : -- I guess, point out that
25 the person that negotiated with you on that, I'm guessing, is
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
26
1 probably me.
2 MR. ALLES : Right .
3 COMMISSIONER JERKE : It' s a minor subdivision, and that' s
4 something the commissioners agreed to at that time . Not any who
5 are on this current board, of course . We did wind up putting that
6 kind of a fence up.
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE : If I could, maybe, stop the
8 proceeding, just as a matter of caution. Counsel, is that
9 an issue?
10 MR. MORRISON: I don' t --
11 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Do you see that as an issue for us
12 this morning?
13 MR. MORRISON: I don' t think it' s an issue . I don' t know
14 that it' s a precedent . I think you've got to review the facts, and
15 I would question how the facts relate, anyway. But I don' t see
16 that -- I mean, one of the former commissioners always used to say,
17 "I used to own that property, " and he' s --
18 COMMISSIONER JERKE: (Inaudible) Webster.
19 MR. MORRISON: -- now in the state legislature . So --
20 but he used to. I don' t see that -- I mean, this doesn' t create a
21 conflict . It' s just --
22 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Stated a fact .
23 MR. MORRISON: -- evidence that the ditch company wishes
24 to enter in, and I, again, don' t see that --
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE : But I wanted that in the record,
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27
1 counsel , just in case this is questioned down the road for whatever
2 reason, so let' s go ahead and proceed.
3 MR. MORRISON: Yes .
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Is there anything else, sir, that
5 you wish to bring before the board?
6 MR. ALLES : Pardon me?
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Is there anything else you wish to
8 bring before the board?
9 MR. ALLES : Well, I think that' s pretty much it, other
10 than the fact that, in the -- I think one of you gentlemen alluded
11 to the fact that in the letter that Mrs . Ream sent us on December
12 22nd, that she did say -- I have this underlined, and somebody
13 picked up on it -- but she said that "We are fully aware of the
14 possibilities of injuries and litigation brought on by this
15 undertaking, " but I don' t -- you know, I don' t see anywhere in
16 here where they' re saying we' re not going to be liable. So that' s
17 all I know.
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Are there any questions? Is it Mr.
19 Ellis? I'm sorry, I couldn' t --
20 MR. ALLES : No, Alles A-L-L-E-S .
21 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Alles . Thank you. Are there any
22 questions, Mr. Alles? Thank you, sir.
23 MR. MORRISON: Mr. Chairman --
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Yes, counsel .
25 MR. MORRISON: -- can I have leave to ask one? When you
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
28
1 refer to the ditch as going through the Town of LaSalle, past Mr.
2 Jerke' s development, you' re talking about the ditch proper, not
3 this tailwater ditch that' s adjacent to the applicant property?
4 MR. ALLES : That' s correct . But the ditch is there,
5 alongside of Mr. Jerke' s property, but you know, it doesn' t take a
6 lot of water for a child to drown.
7 MR. MORRISON: Can you quantify the difference?
8 MR. ALLES : I'd say, along Mr. Jerke' s property, there
9 is probably, oh, maybe 80 to 100 acre cfs, cubic feet per second.
10 Along this ditch, if there' s a heavy storm, it could be running 20
11 to 30 cfs .
12 MR. MORRISON: And normally, during irrigation season?
13 MR. ALLES : During irrigation season, it goes up and
14 down, because it' s a tailwater. There might be some days there' s
15 no water in there . Some days, you can walk across it in your
16 shoes, and not get your ankles wet . But it' s up and down.
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Mr. Alles, I just had one question.
18 Can you tell us how much -- how long of a fence you' re talking
19 about? Maybe you could point it out on -- well, what your concern
20 is, maybe? As far as what area you' re concerned about and maybe
21 the length of it?
22 MR. ALLES : Right here is where -- this is Highway 34,
23 and our ditch comes along here and crosses under Highway 34, and
24 then down right about here is where it drops down real fast . And
25 it goes, probably, another three, four hundred feet, and then goes
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
29
1 off into another slough. I guess my estimation on a fence would be
2 about 17 hundred to 18 hundred feet . That' s a rough estimate .
3 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Which would be from the point of the
4 road back to the -- again, could you just point that out, just
5 for clari- --
6 MR. ALLES : (Inaudible)
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Could you point that part out, what
8 17 -- where 17 hundred feet would be, just for clarification?
9 MR. ALLES : Probably down about in here .
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE : So it would be the full length of
11 the ditch as it parallels the property?
12 MR. ALLES : Yes . Although we have a right-of-way all the
13 way along the property. It goes to here, and then it goes back
14 towards the road.
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you.
16 MR. ALLES : Toward the northeast .
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you, sir, very much. I say
18 this is a public hearing. Is there anyone else in the audience
19 that wishes to speak to this case this morning?
20 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Mr. Chairman, I was going --
21 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Excuse me . Mr. Alles . Did you want
22 to speak to Mr. Alles?
23 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Yeah. I was just wondering --
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Mr. Alles .
25 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: -- talking about the grates on --
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weldctyBOACC - Ream Request
30
1 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Commissioner Masden.
2 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: -- the culverts . How many culverts
3 are we concerned about here?
4 MR. ALLES : I don' t know. We don' t have --
5 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay.
6 MR. ALLES : I mean, that' s one thing we asked for in --
7 in our -- in our letter. But we haven' t been notified about
8 drainage patterns .
9 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Thank you.
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you, sir.
11 MR. ALLES : Okay.
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Again, is there anyone else in the
13 audience that wishes to speak to this matter this morning, this
14 case? If not, I will close the public hearing. I'm sorry, there
15 is somebody. Would you come forward, and would you please give
16 your name and address?
17 MR. HOSHIKO: Good morning. My name is Dennis Hoshiko.
18 My address is 2113 - 8th Avenue, Greeley. I'm here today neither
19 to speak in favor or in opposition to the proposal . But I do think
20 that it is important that the commissioners understand the
21 surrounding uses of the proposed change of use, and that is,
22 agriculture .
23 I am president of the farm company that owns the land
24 directly south of the outlined property, and a lease operation land
25 directly to the east of this property. And I just got to know the
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
31
1 Reams of late . They purchased the property a little over a year
2 ago, and so far our neighborship has been very amiable. And I want
3 all of you here to know that .
4 I'm not sure exactly all of what your thoughts are, with
5 the tale in the years to come . But I just want them to know on the
6 record, there are active agriculture operations taking place, both
7 to the south and to the east of them, that do entail heavy
S equipment, farm machinery, agricultural spraying operations, dust,
9 odors, and a lot of things that are associated with the normal,
10 conventional operation of a farm.
11 So that' s why I'm coming forward is to be sure that
12 everyone understands that those things have been going on, are
13 going on, and will continue to go on in the years to come . And I
14 want them to know that . So if they think there' s any reason that
15 those operations might adversely affect their plans, that they know
16 that up front, because those are facts .
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Any questions for Mr. Hoshiko? I
18 just have one, if I may, Mr. Hoshiko, and maybe I could, to staff,
19 if that would be okay. Should we be including the right to farm
20 covenants in this, which deals with the concerns, a lot of the
21 concerns that Mr. Hoshiko is bringing forth?
22 MS . LOCKMAN: Yes, that would be great . I thought I did
23 have that on here, but --
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE : I couldn' t find it, Sheri .
25 MS . LOCKMAN: Yes, I noticed that, but we' ll get it
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
32
1 on there.
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE: It is not or it is?
3 MS . LOCKMAN: I don' t see it (inaudible) -- So, yes,
4 let' s get it on there .
5 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you. Commissioner Vaad.
6 COMMISSIONER VAAD: If I might, Dennis, just to - - and I
7 know you don' t have a copy of the application -- but in the
8 application we ask the applicant to explain how the proposal is
9 consistent with the intended Weld County Comprehensive Plan. As
10 you well know, the preservation of agriculture is very important
11 to us .
12 And their response is, in part, "The use of this property
13 should be consistent . . . " well, in (inaudible) with that " . . . should
14 be consistent with any Weld County Comprehensive Plan that would
15 include access by the local urban youth to rural/agricultural
16 environment, with the intent to educate them on the history that
17 created Weld County, surrounding parcels of land which can. . . " and
18 they point out are agriculture " . . .parcels of land which can be
19 easily viewed from the facility, include crop farming, dairy
20 farming, wetlands and river bottom. This should provide an
21 environment conducive to the study of not only the history of this
22 area, but the present day land usage as well . "
23 So I pass that one, because it seems clear to me that
24 their intent is to do exactly what we' re trying to do; people
25 understand that this agriculture . This is what agriculture looks
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyHOACC - Ream Request
33
1 like, and other things .
2 MR. HOSHIKO: I appreciate that . In my career -- I've
3 got kids, too, by the way, and in fact, (inaudible) -- and I love
4 ' em. I love all kids that age .
5 And I'm enthused that this might be an opportunity for
6 other children to understand agriculture as it exists today, and
7 has in the past as well , because I find, in my career, that very,
8 very few people understand that these days, or there are very few
9 of us that are blessed to still be actively involved in production
10 agriculture, and have been for, as in our family, three generations
11 around this country.
12 And I've been involved with the programs that actually
13 bring urban youths out to the country and show them what we do .
14 Also, going into urban centers and classrooms, and taking farm
15 equipment, farm animals, and farm products to show them these
16 things, to try to help them understand -- help educate along those
17 lines . So those are all memorable things that are planned to be
18 connected there.
19 But there is a difference between going, seeing and
20 coming home, and being there year round, 365 days out of the year.
21 So my main thought, again, of coming forward is to be sure that
22 everyone understands that these operations are going to be going on
23 all year round, very close proximity, and it' s virtually impossible
24 for us to change that, once an operation like this is allowed to
25 go forth.
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34
1 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Commissioner Jerke.
2 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Same side
3 of a kind of different question for you, because I'm aware you have
4 property out by the airport . I guess my question' s a little
5 different, in that I'm trying to surmise -- do you see a lot of air
6 traffic from the Greeley-Weld Airport at this location, compared to
7 your other properties that are near it?
8 MR. HOSHIKO: No. I spend a lot of time on that land,
9 and I don' t believe that air traffic is going to be any kind of a
10 factor, in the approval of this (inaudible) project . Even though
11 the -- it was just brought to my attention that the new north-south
12 runway does align somewhat with this property. I haven' t seen an
13 increase in traffic since that runway went in.
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Are there any other questions of Mr.
15 Hoshiko? If not, thank you, Dennis .
16 MR. HOSHIKO: Thank you.
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Is there anyone else that wishes to
18 speak to this case this morning? I don' t -- does anybody else see
19 anybody? I don' t see any. Now, I' ll close the public hearing, and
20 bring it back to the Board of County Commissioners . Questions?
21 Sheri?
22 MS . LOCKMAN: I'd like to inform the commission of one of
23 other things that' s going to (inaudible) a little bit . The back
24 half of this property, the north side, that a lot of that is in
25 flood plain and flood way. To build a fence there, would be
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
35
1 considered a structure . There would have to be flood hazard
2 permits, and I'm not even really sure it' s something that they
3 would be capable of doing.
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE : One of the things we need to do is
5 ask Mrs . Ream to come back to the microphone . Mrs . Ream, if you
6 wouldn' t mind giving your name and address, again, for the record.
7 MS . REAM: Okay. Janet Ream, 412 North 71st Avenue,
8 Greeley.
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE : You heard the comments and concerns
10 expressed today. Do you have any comments that you' d like to
11 express concerning those?
12 MS . REAM: Well, I guess -- I understand the Union
13 Ditches concerns . Being a teacher, I probably would look at it
14 quite differently, because I have spent a lot of time with kids, so
15 I think I'm quite qualified to run an operation and comply
16 sufficient to the rules .
17 Our intent is to educate kids out in rural areas . My
18 husband and I are both connected with that background ourselves .
19 So we are very aware of (inaudible) -- So I guess I'm comfortable
20 with running the corporation safely and (inaudible) -- That' s about
21 all I can say.
22 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mrs . Ream, you were privy to the
24 conversation with Mr. Southard and myself about indemnification,
25 their request for some kind of indemnification. And the first
L-MAC R S T (303)798-0360 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
36
1 proposal was the fence that would help .
2 What you stated in the letter wasn' t clear to either the
3 representative of the ditch, or to Mr. Southard, that they would be
4 indemnified by that . Have you had any conversation with your
5 attorney or your insurance agent about providing some sort of
6 specific statement to the Union Ditch Company that maybe your
7 insurance company accepts them as someone to be indemnified, should
8 there be a problem?
9 MS . REAM: No, we really never talked about this . We
10 assumed it was our property, and they have their easement . And we
11 understand that agreement . And we've indicated that we take
12 responsibility so that (inaudible) -- and they would be insured in
13 that circumstance .
14 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So any student who is there is there
15 as part of the business?
16 MRS . REAM: As well as the school field trips . During
17 the summer, it would be a private (inaudible) -- day camp . During
18 the school year, the (inaudible) -- school district . And
19 (inaudible) school district field trip, would be the same
20 condition.
21 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you.
22 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Sheri, could we get back to your
23 point about the fence? The point that you brought up about
24 the fence.
25 MS . LOCKMAN: You want me to rephrase it?
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0300 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
37
1 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Would you get back into that, again?
2 MS . LOCKMAN: Fences and floodways and flood plains, are
3 considered structures like any building. They would be required to
4 obtain a flood hazard permit .
5 Flood hazard permits require raising structures one foot
6 above the flood plain level . I don' t know how they would handle
7 this as a fence . I mean, ' cause they have to raise that land, and
8 it' s extremely low. And floodways, I don' t even think you can
9 build in floodways .
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE : That' s what I thought I heard you
11 say, so I thought I'd wait, Mrs . Ream, so we could find out what is
12 the condition here .
13 MS . LOCKMAN: Julie (inaudible) that there are some cases
14 that have been flood proofed, and water flow (inaudible) --
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE : So it would not be a problem?
16 MS . MIKA: Monica Mika, Department of Planning Services .
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: We' d rather find out . If we could
18 get an answer to that, please .
19 MS . MIKA: Okay. As far as the differentiation between a
20 flood plain and a flood way, if something' s in a flood plain, you
21 have a little more flexibility as far as what type of structures go
22 in there, and don' t go in there . In a flood way, you are
23 prohibited, and you have to -- the concern is, you have to be able
24 to provide FEMA with the surety and the local government that
25 you' re not going to change the course of the flood way by more than
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
38
1 a foot in either direction. So as far as can you put a fence
2 anywhere, the answer is yes, you can put it there, but after you
3 meet all the required technical FEMA requirements, it may not be
4 economically viable to do so .
5 We have had situations where you have a structure in a
6 flood way and we had a little bit -- we platted it out so that the
7 fence was actually eight feet tall, because the bottom two feet of
8 the fence actually were non existent .
9 So I guess the point then is that in so many areas on the
10 site, putting a fence may not be the ultimate solution, because
11 it' s going to cause another problem with meeting flood
12 requirements .
13 You may be able to put fencing in certain places on the
14 site . The other concern is that if it' s in a flood way, to make
15 that determination as to where it' s appropriate to put a fence, and
16 where it' s not appropriate to fence, there will be a lot of cost
17 associated with making judgment call, because that would probably
18 require additional engineering work that may or may not be needed
19 for (inaudible) for a fence . So to that extent, it' s a concern.
20 This area is defined in the town that we have
21 (inaudible) looked at it as far as (inaudible) . The house is
22 actually (inaudible) There were some other issues that we were
23 able to work with the applicant on, as far as the flood plain goes .
24 So they may be able to put the fence some places reasonably on the
25 site . I think that' s the question, is it reasonable to put it
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
39
1 every place, probably not .
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. Any questions of staff?
3 Thank you, Monica.
4 Ms . Ream, I' d just -- first of all, I' d like to make sure
5 that you've read through the development standards conditions of
6 approval , and that you' re in concurrence with those, which would be
7 a few modifications or changes .
8 Perhaps you heard Mr. Carroll delete 3-A, which the
9 applicant -- in other words, what is being deleted would be, "The
10 applicant shall submit evidence that the access permit has been
11 obtained. " You've done that, so that is being deleted.
12 The second would be 3-B, which would be, "The applicant
13 shall upgrade a two-lane gravel road surface all the way around the
14 site . A typical cross section shall be submitted to the Weld
15 County Department of Public Works for approval, and approval of the
16 cross section shall be delineated on the plat . " That is, in
17 essence, being eliminated, because that has been resolved -- that' s
18 being deleted.
19 3-F -- and these are all on page 4, by the way -- the
20 applicant shall submit a traffic circulation plan to the Weld
21 County Department of Public Works . The plan shall include
22 circulation throughout the site, adequate turning, and adequate
23 parking for automobiles, 9 feet by 19 feet, bus, recreation,
24 vehicles, emergency equipment, handicapped parking, the approved
25 plan shall be delineated on the plat . That has been resolved, so
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
40
1 that will be deleted.
2 And the other one would be 3-G. "The applicant shall
3 indicate drainage patterns, retention facilities, or how the water
4 will disburse, once the improvements are in place . That has been
5 deleted.
6 The other that might be added would be the right to farm
7 covenants that the county puts on all development plans and plats
8 that come before us, which is, more or less, as you heard Mr.
9 Hoshiko describe the issues associated with agriculture.
10 It is a recognition that you are surrounded by
11 agriculture, and there are things that go on in agriculture which
12 you -- by having an understanding, you know that they' re there, and
13 they' re going to occur. So the right to farm covenants could very
14 well be added to this, which is standard to most of the
15 applications that come before us .
16 And the only other thing would be a note on the plat that
17 there is -- and I don' t think we want to establish an aviation
18 (sic) easement, other than to say that a note on the plat, that
19 this is in the flight pattern of -- of an airport . Something to
20 that effect .
21 So based upon all that, and with those changes, deletions
22 and additions, do you concur with the -- with the conditions of
23 approval and development standards that have been presented to you?
24 MS . REAM: Yes .
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. The only other thing I'd like
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
41
1 to add is, we have one issue here, it sounds to me like. If we
2 take this back to the board to deliberate, and determine what we' re
3 going to do with your application, we do have -- on one side, we
4 have a ditch board who has these concerns .
5 And on your side, you have expressed how you' re going to
6 resolve those concerns, which are not necessarily -- at least from
7 what I've heard today, the ditch board doesn' t concur with. So
8 you' re putting this board into a position to have to deliberate and
9 make a decision concerning this, and there' s about three or four
10 different options .
11 One of them would be to approve it without any additional
12 conditions of approval . One would be to disapprove it, because of
13 the concerns of the safety, health and welfare of the people of
14 Weld County, concerning this ditch, and the kind of uses that are
15 going to be going on, on the property. And who knows what else
16 could come down.
17 All I want to do is to leave you with the fact that there
18 are issues in front of this board that we' re going to have to deal
19 with, and as I heard your presentation early on, you' re more or
20 less putting this in our hands to make a determination.
21 But I need to make sure you understand that one of those
22 determinations could be there -- one of them could be denial of
23 your application. So is there any way, based upon what
24 Commissioner Vaad was asking you, that we could get determination,
25 as it relates, or some kind of condition of approval that you would
L-MAC R & T (303)79B-0390 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
42
1 come to resolution, whether it be with indemnification, or
2 something, that would give us, I guess you might say, comfort in
3 dealing with this, to cause resolution to the concerns of the ditch
4 company? Boy, I've said a lot . I can really talk a lot, can' t I?
5 MS . REAM: I indicate in my letter that working in
6 District 6 and some of the schools, and dealing with the travel
7 patterns of the children getting to and from school, that wading
8 ditches, and ponds, and streets and hazards, and they are
9 unsupervised children.
10 And in all the years I've worked, I have not known of any
11 accident in that manner. And I guess I don' t feel that this
12 operation, would add any more burden to that for any ditch company,
13 to make -- along the (inaudible) -- that already exists .
14 These children that are coming are not totally unaware of
15 hazards, and they live with them every day. And I don' t see that
16 this is any added hazard to (inaudible) .
17 And actually, they' re probably more supervised, than most
18 situations they find themselves in daily. I do intend to have the
19 school supervised with a high number of adults per child. It is my
20 property and my (inaudible) -- and my choices are different .
21 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. Well, I wanted to make sure
22 that I -- is there any other comment or question from the board.
23 Thank you very much, Ms . Ream. Okay. Bringing this back to the
24 board. Discussion.
25 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr. Chairman, I do find that along
L-MAC R & T (303)790-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
43
1 with the comments from the applicant and the conditions of approval
2 and development standards that we've discussed, I find that the
3 public health, safety and welfare of the inhabitants in the
4 neighborhood and the county are adequately protected here.
5 I have a full appreciation for the comments from the
6 representatives of the ditch company and their concerns for
7 liability.
8 And I also agree with the applicant that this is a much
9 more supervised situation than what is going to be common and
10 ordinary with just families in the area. Therefore I would move to
11 approve the application for Permit 1283 , with the conditions of
12 approval and development standards as modified.
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE : It' s been moved by Commissioner Vaad
14 to approve Special Use Permit 1283 for a guest farm, and the
15 conditions of approval and development standards . Is there a
16 second to that motion?
17 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: I' ll second.
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Commissioner Masden. 2nd by
19 Commissioner Masden. Okay. Comments .
20 MR. MORRISON: Before you vote, can I just ask for
21 clarification on the motion? Did that -- Mr. Geile recited some
22 potential changes . Are those not included?
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Excuse me, the changes which would
24 be adding the right to farm, and deleting 3-A-E, and --
25 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All of the modified conditions of
L-MAC R & T (303)79B-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
44
1 approval as extended.
2 MR. MORRISON: As well as the notice on the plat -- that
3 they' re in a flight --
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE : Aviation (sic) easement?
5 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: The aviation easement .
6 MR. MORRISON: Not the easement but the notice that
7 they' re in the flight pattern.
8 MS . LOCKMAN: That' s already included.
9 MR. MORRISON: Well, it' s in an operation standard, it
10 probably ought to be on there . Is that going to be on --
11 MS . LOCKMAN: It' s the development standards .
12 MR. MORRISON: Development Standard? All right .
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. Is there any discussion of
14 the motion? I will be supporting the motion today. I understand
15 and I have a lot of respect for counsel that was representing the
16 Union Ditch Company this morning. And I do understand their
17 concerns .
18 However, I do feel that there has been a plan submitted
19 to the Board of County Commissioners in this application which
20 states very clearly how they' re going to supervise and monitor the
21 children who will use this facility, and the way they will be --
22 like I say, the way they will be monitored and supervised. I have
23 a comfort level with that .
24 I'm not sure how we can -- can extend the ruling to add
25 additional standards, which would relate directly back to the ditch
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
1 company, and the way that is to be maintained as far as an
2 easement . So as it relates to section 23 .2-230 of the Weld County
3 Code, I will be supporting the motion, based upon I feel that all
4 the provisions of that code have been met . So is there any further
5 discussion? If not, could we have the roll call, please, Esther.
6 MS . GESICK: Robert Masden - aye; Dave Long - aye; Bill
7 Jerke - aye; Glenn Vaad - aye; Mike Geile - aye.
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE: So let the record show that the
9 motion carried unanimously.
10 [Hearing Docket No. 2000-79 adjourned. ]
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L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 WeldCtyBOACC - Ream Request
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CERTIFICATE
STATE OF COLORADO )
ss
COUNTY OF ARAPAHOE )
I, Laura M. Machen, an independent transcriber and
notary public within and for the State of Colorado, certify
the foregoing transcript of the tape recorded proceedings,
In Re: Weld County Board of Commissioners, Hearing Docket No.
2000-79, January 10, 2001, and as further set forth on page one,
is reduced to printed form by computer transcription, and
dependent upon recording clarity, is true and accurate, with
special exceptions of precise identification of any or all
speakers and/or correct spelling of any given or spoken proper
name or acronym.
Dated this 13th day of August, 2001 .
My commission expires May 23, 2004 .
ORIGINAL
[ ] CERTIFIED COPY OF ORIGINAL
L-MAC R & T (303) 798-0300
Hello