HomeMy WebLinkAbout20020201 1 STATE OF COLORADO
2 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, WELD COUNTY
3 October 24 , 2001
4 DOCKET NO. 2001-73
5 RE: SITE SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND USE
6 FOR ASPHALT AND CONCRETE BATCH PLANT, RECYCLING, PROCESSING,
7 COMMERCIAL OFFICES IN AGRICULTURAL ZONE DISTRICT
8 PASQUALE AND JACQUELINE VARRA
9
10
11
12 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE RECORDED MEETING
13
14 M. J. GEILE, Chairman
15 COMMISSIONER MEMBERS PRESENT
16 GLENN VAAD, Pro-Tem WILLIAM H. JERKE
17 ROBERT D. MASDEN DAVID E . LONG
18 ALSO PRESENT
19 ESTHER GESICK, Acting Clerk to the Board.
20 BRUCE BARKER, Esq. , County Attorney.
21 CHRIS GATHMAN, Department of Planning Services .
22 CHAR DAVIS, Weld County Dept . of Public Health.
23 DON CARROLL & DREW SCHELTINGA, Weld County Public Works Department .
24 SPEAKING TO THE APPLICATION
25 BRAD JANES, representing the applicant
26 CHRIS VARRA, President Varra Companies, Inc.
27 KERRY GUILDNER, surrounding property owner.
L-MAC R & T (303)'198-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
2
1 REGINA BRUGGER, surrounding property owner.
2 CHRIS GRENOW, Landman, Kerr-McGee .
3
4 SPEAKING TO THE APPLICATION, continued
5 RON SCHINDLER, Esq. , appearing for RME Land Company.
6 CHARLES BRUGGER, surrounding property owner.
7 [The tape recorded proceeding as set forth on page one is
8 transcribed as follows : ]
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : All right . I ' ll call up Docket No.
10 2001-73 , which is Site Specific Development Plan and Use by Special
11 Review Permit #1341 , for an Asphalt and Concrete Batch Plant,
12 Asphalt and/or Concrete Recycling, Sand and Gravel Processing,
13 Materials and Equipment Storage, and Commercial Offices in the A
14 (Agriculture) Zone District, Pasquale and Jacqueline Varra, in care
15 of Varra Companies, Inc . , located west of and adjacent to Weld
16 County Road 11, and 1/4th mile south of Weld County Road 6 .
17 Before we get started with this case, we need to go in
18 recess at a quarter to 12 : 00, and then we ' ll reconvene at 1 : 30 .
19 The reason I ask that, is there anyone in the audience who wishes
20 to testify to this case that cannot come back this afternoon?
21 (No audible response . )
22 Okay. Counsel, how could I do that? I know that would
23 be doing it out of order.
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra permit 1341
3
1 MR. BARKER: What you may want to do is to get at least
2 some indication or information as to the application, and then go
3 ahead and take the testimony out of order. That ' s --
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Is the applicant or applicant ' s
5 representative here today? Would you please come forward for
6 just a moment, please? Please give your name and address for
7 the record.
8 MR. JANES : Yes, sir. Good morning. I 'm Brad Janes .
9 I 'm a professional forester employed by Varra Companies, Inc .
10 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Would you have - - would have have
11 any problem if we -- the way we proceeded was to have Planning put
12 on the case, and even though this would be out of sync, but to
13 allow the individual who won' t be able to come back this afternoon
14 to present testimony to the board?
15 MR. JANES : Yes, sir.
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Thank you very much. Chris,
17 go ahead.
18 MR. BARKER: Do you want me to make record of this?
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE: I 'm sorry?
20 MR. BARKER: Do you want me --
21 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Oh, I 'm sorry, counsel . Would you
22 please make record.
23 MR. BARKER: -- to make record of this? That ' s fine .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.B000 - Varra Permit 1341
4
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE : I thought you had. Would you please
2 make record. You've got to do something to earn your money today.
3 MR. BARKER: That ' s right . Docket No. 2001-73 , the
4 applicant is Pasquale and Jacqueline Varra, Varra Companies, Inc . ,
5 12910 Montera, 13 (inaudible) Longmont, Colorado 80504 , requests
6 site specific development plan and use for special review permit
7 number 1341 for an asphalt concrete batch plant, asphalt indoor
8 concrete recycling, sand and gravel processing materials, storage
9 equipment , and commercial sales in an A(Agricultural) zoned
10 district .
11 Legal description is part of the south 1/2 , northwest
12 quarter, section 25, 168, located west of and adjacent to
13 (inaudible) 1/2 -- 1/4 mile south of Weld County Road 6 .
14 Notice of today' s hearing was dated October 5, 2001, and
15 published October 10, 2001, Tri-Town Farmer and Miner.
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Chris, you ' re the planner this
17 morning. Why don' t you go ahead and proceed.
18 MR. GATHMAN: Good morning. Chris Gathman, Department of
19 Planning Services . This is Case No. USR 1341, a Site Specific
20 Development Plan and Special Review Permit for asphalt and concrete
21 batch plants, asphalt and/or concrete recycling, sand and gravel
22 processing, materials and equipment storage, and commercial offices
23 in the agriculture zoned district .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
5
1 Public notice sign for this case was posted on October
2 12 , 2001 . Application was submitted to 19 referral agencies and 13
3 referral agencies responded.
4 The Weld County Planning Commission recommends approval
5 of this application for the following reasons :
6 One . The proposed use is consistent with Chapter 22 , and
7 any other applicable code provisions or ordinances in effect .
8 Section 22-5-80 (B) of the Weld County Code states : promotes a
9 reasonable and orderly development of mineral resources .
10 Additionally, under Section 22-2-120 the County Code, it
11 states : promote industrial development that is appropriately
12 located in relation to surrounding land uses, and that meets
13 necessary environmental standards .
14 The proposed use will be located adjacent to an existing
15 commercial use to the south, a vehicle salvage yard, and is located
16 immediately west of the City of Broomfield.
17 The conditions of approval and development standards
18 insure that impacts to surrounding land uses will be adequately
19 mitigated.
20 The proposed use is consistent with the intent of the
21 agricultural zoned district . Section 23-3-40 (A) (4) , Weld County
22 Code provides for asphalt and concrete batch plants as a use by
23 special review in the agricultural zoned district . Proposed sand
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
6
1 and gravel processing facility will process mineral deposits
2 generated off site .
3 Under Section 23-3-40 (A) (6) of the Weld County Code,
4 allows for the on-site processing of mineral deposits . This
5 proposal, however, is for off site processing of mineral deposits .
6 In Section 23-3-4O (U) , Weld County Code, allows for
7 uses similar to uses listed as a use by special review in an
8 agricultural zoned district , as long as the use complies with
9 the general intent of the agricultural zoned district .
10 Commercial offices are a use by right under commercial
11 zoning and outdoor storage of equipment and materials is a use by
12 right in an I-3 , industrial zoned district .
13 And also Section 23-3-4O (R) , allows for uses permitted by
14 right in commercial or industrial zoned district as a special use
15 in an agricultural zoned district .
16 The uses that will be permitted will be compatible with
17 the existing surrounding land uses . Proposed uses, adjacent to
18 commercial RV Storage Lot to the south, permitted under Special Use
19 Permit 299 . A turkey facility to the north is permitted under
20 Special Use Permit 117 . And three single family residences and
21 outbuildings are to the west, adjacent to Weld County Road 11 .
22 There also are some residences to the east that is
23 separated by the Union Pacific (inaudible - moving away from
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
7
1 microphone) railroad. There are some residences to the east about
2 a half a mile.
3 The site is separated from farm properties to the east by
4 an above-grade Union Pacific railroad.
5 The applicant is proposing to bring water to the facility
6 to operate the asphalt and concrete batch plants . They have
7 provided a commercial well permit to provide water to employees for
8 the office space that is proposed.
9 The amount of water required for the asphalt plant will
10 be minimal . The applicant has estimated that the concrete batch
11 plant will use approximately 9, 120 gallons per day.
12 Varra Company owns a 5 , 000 gallon water truck and is
13 estimating that two round trips, to and from the site per day, to
14 supply water to the site . They have existing water facilities in
15 their existing plant facility near 119 and 1-25 .
16 Under Development Standard No. 3 , it states that no
17 future expansion of the facility will be allowed until a permanent
18 water source is obtained, either through commercial well or
19 water tap.
20 The uses which will be permitted will be compatible with
21 future development of the surrounding area, as permitted by the
22 existing zoning, and future development as projected by Chapter 22 ,
23 of the Weld County Code, and other applicable provisions .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
8
1 The proposed facility is located within the three-mile
2 referral area, for the town of Erie, and the cities of Broomfield,
3 Dacono and Northglenn. All of these municipalities have indicated
4 that this proposal did not conflict with their interests and their
5 referrals .
6 Also the proposed facility will access onto County Road
7 11 , which is maintained by the City of Broomfield. And to the
8 south, a portion of that is maintained by the City of Northglenn.
9 Conditions of approval require that the applicant obtain
10 appropriate access permits, and road improvement agreements with
11 the applicable municipalities, prior to recording the plat .
12 The site is located within the southwest road, impact fee
13 area number three . This fee will need to be assessed at the time
14 of the building permit .
15 Finally, the applicant has demonstrated a diligent effort
16 to conserve prime agricultural land in the locational decision for
17 the proposed use . The site is designated as prime, irrigated land,
18 according to the 1979 important farm lands of Weld County Map.
19 However, water rights on this property have been sold off by the
20 previous property owner.
21 The parcel is not in agricultural production at this
22 time, and it does not have to -- it does not have -- it doesn' t
23 appear to have been in production for a considerable length
L•MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
9
1 of time .
2 A condition, prior to scheduling the hearing before the
3 Board of County Commissioners, was that the applicant demonstrate
4 that oil and gas activities and subsurface minerals have been
5 incorporated into the design of the site, or demonstrate an
6 adequate attempt has been made to mitigate the concerns of the
7 mineral owners .
8 The applicants provided a letter dated September 7, 2001,
9 asserting that they have attempted to address the requirements, the
10 oils and gas minerals . At this time, there is not a specific
11 agreement with oil and gas interests and mineral owners on this
12 case . The Varra ' s state that they can adequately address oil and
13 gas use through existing surface agreements; that a new agreement
14 is not required.
15 The representatives for the minerals interest, recently
16 submitted letters under -- as representatives for RME Land and RME
17 Petroleum. And also as representatives for Kerr McGee, indicating
18 RME Land and RME Petroleum are requesting that either the case be
19 denied or that , as a condition prior to the construction, that
20 there be an agreement reached between the applicants and the
21 mineral interests . Kerr-McGee also asserted they would like a
22 follow up agreement in their letter as well .
23 I 'd be happy to answer any questions at this time . I
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.B000 - Varra Permit 1341
10
1 don' t know if you want the applicants and the mineral owners to
2 address that issue at this time or not .
3 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Vaad.
4 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I may have heard you wrong, when you
5 started, but the recording will correct that . And I think you said
6 that the City of Broomfield was to that east . It ' s actually to
7 the west .
8 MR. GATHMAN: Right . It ' s to the west .
9 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN GEILE : We -- you handed this out this morning.
11 There ' s a lot of changes . And I assume all of these changes are
12 highlighted.
13 MR. GATHMAN: Correct .
14 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Is that correct?
15 MR. GATHMAN: In reality, there are a few - - most of the
16 changes are relatively minor. There were a couple of conditions to
17 approval that kind of -- one was --
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE: The one on page two, which would be "C" ,
19 which would be, "The approval of development standards would insure
20 that any potential impacts from the 9120 gallons of water per day
21 would be mitigated. " What do you mean by that?
22 MR. GATHMAN: That was just a --
23 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Are you anticipating some issues with
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
11
1 the groundwater?
2 MR. GATHMAN: - - just a -- that ' s just a further -- I
3 guess that just a further addressing of the statement that the uses
4 would be --
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Has the applicant seen these
6 changes --
7 MR. GATHMAN: Yes .
8 CHAIRMAN GEILE : -- that are addressed in here?
9 MR. GATHMAN: Yes, he has . Yes .
10 The other changes, under Item F, on page 3 , and this is
11 just a clarification. It was my original understanding that all of
12 the water had been sold to the City of Northglenn. Only one share
13 was sold to Northglenn. The remaining shares of water had been
14 sold to various private interests, so it ' s a minor clarification --
15 CHAIRMAN GEILE : In page 4, the off-street parking --
16 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah -- Okay.
17 MR. GATHMAN: Right . Just clarifying that .
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE: And page 5, which would be Weld County
19 Road 11, is maintained by the City of Broomfield, who has
20 jurisdiction over all accesses to the road system. The applicant
21 shall contact the City of Broomfield to verify it had -- to verify
22 if an access permit or any additional requirements are needed to
23 upgrade . The applicant shall provide Weld County Department of
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.B000 - Varra Permit 1341
12
1 Planning Sservices . . . " so forth and so forth " . . .City of
2 Broomfield, verification that concerns of the City of Broomfield
3 had been addressed. " Has that been done?
4 MR. GATHMAN: Not at this time . They are --
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE : So it remains as -- remains as an open
6 condition.
7 MR. GATHMAN: -- negotiating an improvements agreement,
8 so -- yeah.
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Then on page 6 , "The applicants shall
10 submit a copy of an agreement with the Farmers Reservoir and
11 Irrigation Ditch Company, whose irrigation ditch runs along the
12 northwestern boundary of the proposed development, stipulated that
13 the concerns of the ditch company had been adequately addressed. . . "
14 and so forth. Okay?
15 MR. GATHMAN: Right .
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE : And into the east, we ' re getting our
17 directions on number "N" . Okay.
18 MR. GATHMAN: It ' s the center, if you want to see that,
19 again, on the other side of the railroad.
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE: And then we ' re scratching -- what we
21 have would be number 4 -- Esther, you have a copy of this, I
22 assume?
23 MS . GESICK: Yes .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
13
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. We ' re scratching number 4 on
2 development standards, and renumbering accordingly, I assume .
3 MR. GATHMAN: Correct . That ' s ' cause --
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay.
5 MR. GATHMAN: -- number 3 basically says the same thing
6 in a --
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE : All right .
8 MR. GATHMAN: -- little more detail .
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : So number 5, then, would be "The
10 proposed commercial office sdhall be associated with, related to,
11 and accessory to the proposed asphalt - - concrete batch plants,
12 asphalt and concrete recycling and sand. . . " da, da, da, da, da --
13 and " . . .accessory uses provided under the special use permit . "
14 MR. GATHMAN: Correct .
15 CHAIRMAN GEILE: And then --
16 MR. GATHMAN: The applicants had stated that in their
17 application. It ' s just a --
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay.
19 MR. GATHMAN: -- clarification.
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE : It ' s just to clarify that . Okay.
21 Six, you would add a sentence, "the first 300 feet of the
22 access drive off, of Weld County Road 11 , shall be surfaced with
23 asphalt, concrete or equivalent . "
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
14
1 MR. GATHMAN: Of public works .
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE : And it looks like that ' s it . Is that
3 correct , Chris?
4 MR. GATHMAN: That ' s it .
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE: All right . Are there any questions of
6 Chris? I ' d like -- who is Drew, are you (inaudible)
7 MR. SCHELTINGA: Yes, sir.
8 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Could you tell us what we own and what
9 we don' t own?
10 MR. SCHELTINGA: Yes, sir. As a matter of fact , we do --
11 may have to make a little bit of a revision here . They' re showing
12 it public works .
13 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr. Chairman, one thing I might -- if
14 you need to leave at quarter till , if you need to take someone out
15 of order, we ' re sort of running out of time.
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Yeah, why don ' t we do that, just to make
17 sure we get your testimony. If I could go ahead and interrupt the
18 staff ' s testi- -- or presentation.
19 I wonder if we could call upon the individual who cannot
20 come back this afternoon, to please come forth, and give your name
21 and address, and then any comments you wish to make. Did I also
22 see one over here? You the same way? So if you' d please make any
23 comments .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
15
1 MS . GUILDNER: My name is Kerry Guildner, and I live at
2 1345 Weld County Road 13 , which would be across the railroad tracks
3 from the division that the people along Road 13 had mentioned.
4 And I 'm basically talking for most of the neighbors
5 around me; that it is mostly farmland around us, agriculture, and
6 we were concerned about the -- they said -- we went to the Planning
7 Commission meeting they had on it .
8 And they were going to operate 24 hours a day, and the
9 lights at night, and the dust the cement batch plant is going to
10 make, come over on us, and the smell from the asphalt plant . We ' re
11 just all against it, and thinking it didn' t go with the farmland,
12 basically.
13 And they said that they would put up a fence and trees,
14 and things like that, to help that, but I seriously don' t see how
15 that would help cement dust and asphalt smell in the neighborhood.
16 And that was our concerns, and I think some people have written you
17 saying the same things .
18 But that ' s what I wanted to say about it, and hoping that
19 it wouldn' t go through. But I 'm just a little person in the
20 neighborhood.
21 CHAIRMAN GEILE : No, no. Don' t say - - I 'd like to -- I
22 know that you've got to leave . You can' t come back this afternoon.
23 But what about -- and I read that in the application,
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
16
1 too . The 24-hour operation. Is that something that -- is that the
2 way the application is presented to us? They will operate 24 hours
3 a day? Or has that been resolved?
4 MR. GATHMAN: The applicant -- the applicants are -- what
5 they' re looking at is, in my conversations with them, their issue
6 was, if they get a state highway project , as to how that ' s going to
7 be addressed. I don' t believe in my conversations with them, that
8 they' re planning on operating 24 hours a day on a regular basis .
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Because in our ordinance, it usually
10 says daylight to dawn.
11 MR. GATHMAN: Right . And that is -- that is a
12 development standard. It doesn' t specifically - - it calls out
13 the section of the code that deals with the operation standards
14 for batch plants, and that is on the development standards . So at
15 this - - this time, I guess our recommendation would be that it is
16 left to the --
17 CHAIRMAN GEILE : But that will be dealt with as we ' re
18 going through this hearing.
19 MR. GATHMAN: Yeah. I believe the applicant ' s
20 representative will bring that up in the presentation.
21 CHAIRMAN GEILE : The other -- the other question I had,
22 with that - - since you can' t be here this afternoon --
23 MS . GUILDNER: Mm-hmm.
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
17
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE: -- and I 'm taking a little bit out of
2 protocol today, but Char, what about the smell?
3 MS . DAVIS : Char Davis, Weld County Health Department . I
4 did speak with Brad Janes in regard to that concern. And he said
5 that, I think, he can give us more information.
6 But he did assure me that they had some state of the art
7 equipment that would eliminate that . It doesn' t appear, also, from
8 the conversations with him that the asphalt plant will be in
9 operation for awhile .
10 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Well , we ' ll deal with that in this
11 application -- well, we ' ll deal with that in this application
12 process, too.
13 MS . GUILDNER: And I guess one other concern would be
14 the traffic that we have on Road 13 already, from cement trucks
15 and gravel trucks . It ' s just gotten huge, lately.
16 And I 'm sure, on Road 6, also above it, is just going to
17 put so much more traffic in our neighborhood that I don' t think it
18 can take it, where most industrial things are like along I-25 . It
19 would be better suited there .
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Yeah. Could you do me one favor, just
21 for the record, to make sure the clerk -- could you spell your last
22 name, please?
23 MS . GUILDNER: GUILDNER. And my first name is
L-MAC R fi T (303)796-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
18
1 K-E-R-R-Y.
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Thank you very much.
3 MS . GUILDNER: Thank you.
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Are there any other questions? Thank
5 you very much. There was somebody else that wanted to present
6 testimony. If you could please give your name and address for the
7 record.
8 MS . BRUGGER: My name is Regina Brugger, B-R-U-G-G-E-R.
9 I 'm on Weld County Road 11 . Is the other map still up there?
10 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Yeah. Which one do you need?
11 MR. GATHMAN: There -- I think there should be - -
12 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Kim, would - - or Chris, would you go up
13 and help her, to make sure she gets the map that she wants to refer
14 to?
15 MS . BRUGGER: I have a few concerns . I was wondering if
16 they do or do not have the contract , with C-470? I was under the
17 impression that they did have a contract . They' re doing concrete
18 on that highway?
19 MR. GATHMAN: Do you want that one?
20 MS . BRUGGER: Yeah, the other one.
21 MR. GATHMAN: Okay.
22 MS . BRUGGER: And the uses of Road 11, what direction are
23 they going to go when they go out of their plant? Are they going
L-MAC P & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
19
1 to go north, or are they going to go south?
2 The noise . Also concerned about the 24 hours, operating
3 24 hours .
4 Safety of the trucks . You know, going around the bend,
5 they' re gonna - - that ' s why I 'm asking for one of the maps .
6 Let ' s see . (Speaking away from microphone) I am on this
7 curve right here, right across from the (inaudible) .
8 There ' s houses all along there . Not a whole lot, but,
9 hmm, I ' d probably say 13 between Road 2 and where they' re going to
10 be located, there are a number of houses . I 'm just concerned about
11 the traffic, the noise, the dust . Basically everything that
12 (inaudible) was concerned about .
13 And the maintenance -- I do -- I am in the City of
14 Broomfield, and I was at their council meeting last night on
15 another issue, and they are in the works of getting something
16 figured out with maintaining the road. That ' s another concern.
17 That road is not very well maintained to begin with. Very -- very
18 terrible road.
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE : When you say "council meeting, " was that
20 at Broomfield or North- --
21 MS . BRUGGER: Mm-hmm. I was there on another issue.
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE : But which jurisdiction was that?
23 Broomfield?
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
20
1 MS . BRUGGER: Yes .
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay.
3 MS . BRUGGER: It ' s in the City of Broomfield. And that ' s
4 why -- I 'm in the City of Broomfield, but I have the area address .
5 And what is the length of time? Is this going to be a
6 temporary thing, or is it going to be a permanent permit? And
7 those are basically my -- all my concerns .
8 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. And are there any other questions
9 of Mrs . Brugger? Thank you. Thank you very much. Is there anyone
10 else in the audience who can ' t come back this afternoon? If not , I
11 will go ahead and put the board in recess .
12 We will -- we will reconvene at 1 : 30, and when we come
13 back, staff will finish their presentation. We ' ll move on with the
14 applicant, public testimony, and then any final comments that the
15 applicant might want to have, before we bring it back to the board.
16 So that ' ll be our process this afternoon, so we will reconvene at
17 1 :30 . Thank you.
18 [Tape recorder turned off . Tape recorder turned on. ]
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Good afternoon. I will reconvene the
20 board in our hearing of case -- Docket 2001-73 , which is a site --
21 which is the special review permit number 1341 .
22 Before we took a recess, we were in the process, Chris,
23 of you presenting your case on behalf of the staff . I wonder if
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
21
1 you ' d go ahead and continue, or conclude or whatever you were . So,
2 go ahead.
3 MR. GATHMAN: I guess I ' d basically concluded my
4 presentation. If there ' s anything else you'd like me to add,
5 I ' d be happy to.
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE : I think pretty well what we had done
7 was, when you were concluding, we had gone through all the
8 conditions of approval and modifications thereof, that you
9 presented us this morning.
10 I think we were then proceeding to move to the
11 transportation and questions associated with that . So Drew,
12 maybe you could make some comments as far as the transportation,
13 including the haul route, as you understand it .
14 MR. SCHELTINGA: Yes, sir. Drew Scheltinga, Public
15 Works . The applicant has indicated to us the designated haul route
16 from the access to the pit .
17 CHAIRMAN GEILE: I wonder, could we get -- if we could
18 get that one aerial exhibit back up, you know, so we can kind of
19 follow things that are going on. I know we ' re talking about Weld
20 County Road 11 , but we ' re still trying to figure out who owes who,
21 who owns what, and what the haul routes are gonna be. I think
22 that ' s where we were .
23 MR. SCHELTINGA: Yes .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
22
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay.
2 MR. SCHELTINGA: We had designated a haul route from
3 the access to the facility south on Weld County Road 11, to Weld
4 County, Road 2 , and then Weld County Road 2 , to the west, to State
5 Highway 7 .
6 The traf- -- we have received traffic study that has
7 analyzed the traffic and a haul route, and we are in concurrence
8 with that study. We agree with the conclusions .
9 One of the major aspects is that the study indicates that
10 there is sufficient truck turning facility -- or truck turning
11 lanes at State Highway 7 and Weld County Road 2 . And also that
12 there is not a capacity problem at any of the intersections .
13 However, there are improvements that will be needed to
14 Weld County Road 11 . And as described earlier, these areas have
15 been annexed and they are largely - - not largely -- I believe they
16 are all within the City of Broomfield, is my understanding.
17 And so normally we would have a maintenance and
18 improvements agreement with the applicant . In this case, it is
19 under the authority of the City of Broomfield.
20 So the applicant is working with the City of Broomfield.
21 It ' s my understanding an agreement has not been completed at this
22 time . We have forwarded information to the City of Broomfield,
23 copies of our typical improvements and maintenance agreements .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra permit 1341
23
1 And it ' s my understanding the applicant will address
2 their discussions with the City of Broomfield, and where they are
3 at this time . Our only requirement is that the applicant would
4 provide us the agreement for roadway improvements and requirements
5 by the city.
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
7 COMMISSIONER VAAD: When Chris was making his
8 presentation, he mentioned -- was it Northglenn or Thornton, also,
9 as far as contiguous entities?
10 MR. SCHELTINGA: The -- as you can see on the bottom of
11 the screen that that pond area is Northglenn ' s treatment site area.
12 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So then is the Road 11, down to
13 whatever that road is on the north side of the pond, is that --
14 that ' s totally Broomfield?
15 MR. SCHELTINGA: That ' s totally -- it ' s my understanding
16 it ' s totally Broomfield.
17 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And south of there, then is
18 Northglenn?
19 MR. SCHELTINGA: And the applicant has researched this
20 and has started discussion with Broomfield.
21 Northglenn has annexed, but that ' s their treatment plant,
22 or their sewage treatment they've shown on aerial photograph, but
23 they haven' t annexed the road.
L-MAC R E T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
24
1 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So whose road is it south of that
2 intersection?
3 MR. SCHELTINGA: Broomfield' s .
4 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So it ' s Broomfield' s all the way.
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Long.
6 COMMISSIONER LONG: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Drew, is
7 it your understanding, on the haul routes, is that bringing the
8 material in and exporting it, also, or is that just the exporting?
9 MR. SCHELTINGA: The applicant will probably address
10 that . It ' s my understanding that the plan is to import on the
11 rail , process the material, and then export the material from site
12 to market . The applicant can probably give a better explanation on
13 that, than - -
14 COMMISSIONER LONG: Thank you.
15 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
16 COMMISSIONER VAAD: What is -- what is the crossroad
17 right above the USR 1341?
18 MR. SCHELTINGA: That ' s Weld County Road 6 . So from --
19 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So Weld County Road 6 is up there .
20 MR. SCHELTINGA: Yes .
21 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I 'm down here?
22 MR. SCHELTINGA: That would be four. And the haul route
23 does not allow for any transportation, except from the access to
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
25
1 the site, straight down 11 . That would be almost two miles . A
2 mile and three-quarters, a mile -- between a mile and three-
3 quarters and mile and a half south of Weld County Road 2 . So
4 there would not be any hauling on 4 .
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay.
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Any other questions of Drew? Okay.
7 Again, I want to make sure . On Weld County Road 11, do they have
8 any -- do they own -- or have they annexed any -- is any of Weld
9 County Road 11 in Northglenn?
10 MR. SCHELTINGA: No.
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. So it ' s all in Broomfield, all
12 the way to Weld County Road 8?
13 MR. SCHELTINGA: That ' s my understanding.
14 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Just as a curious question. Do we have
15 a map that shows what is in the City and County of Broomfield, in
16 that area?
17 MR. SCHELTINGA: I don' t have one with me . I don' t have
18 an overhead or anything --
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Maybe the applicant -- maybe the
20 applicant will have something. We ' ll get to it at the applicant ' s
21 presentation. I just wondered if we did.
22 Are there any other questions of Drew? Okay. Char, did
23 you have any -- from the Health Department, did you have any
L-MAC R & T (303)79B-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
26
1 comments?
2 MS . DAVIS : Char Davis . Weld County Health. I did want
3 to make just one - - and I don' t know if this is the appropriate
4 time or not, but one of the conditions has been met . And that
5 would be -- I believe what I have here is two or three -- 2 (e) .
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE : I 'm sorry. What page?
7 MS . DAVIS : 2 (e) . On mine, it ' s page 8 .
8 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Page 4 , and then what was the
9 number?
10 MS . DAVIS : 2 (e) . It ' s " . . . submit a Dust Abatement
11 plan. "
12 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Oh. Okay. I was on this new --
13 MS . DAVIS : I know. I don ' t have the newest version,
14 so --
15 CHAIRMAN GEILE: -- this new one that we have . Can you
16 get me to the new one, ' cause I think this is the one we ' re going
17 to be working from. So it ' s 2 --
18 MS . DAVIS : 2 (f) ?
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE : 2 (f) . Which would be dust abatement
20 plan?
21 MS . DAVIS : Yes . That condition has been met . We can
22 delete that .
23 CHAIRMAN GEILE: So scratch.
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
27
1 MS . DAVIS : And I have received some other materials from
2 the applicant , but I haven ' t had a chance to review them. So I
3 don' t know exactly what the rest of it says . They just -- they
4 gave it to me this morning .
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Commissioner Masden.
6 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Yes . Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 Yes . Char, you ' re talking about 2 (f) submittal of a dust
8 abatement plan?
9 MS . DAVIS : Yes .
10 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: In regards to one, is that the rock
11 crushing plant, or what is that --
12 MS . DAVIS : It ' s basically for everything, from traffic,
13 driving, any type of dust that they may have that would leave off
14 their property. They need to address those issues .
15 They also in addition have an air pollution emission
16 notice from the state, that they have to follow those. So these
17 are very closely tied together, basically.
18 We just ask for them to give us some more -- something
19 that we can really hold onto, and understand what they' re going
20 to do .
21 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: ' Cause I 've gotten a few letters
22 and quite a few phone calls from surrounding landowners and
23 neighbors, and things . And that was some of their biggest
L-MAC R 5 T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
28
1 concerns; all the dust coming off of there, the smell from the
2 asphalt plant, discharge, and the traffic, and --
3 MS . DAVIS : There ' s - - we have two, there ' s basically two
4 conditions . One would be the dust abatement plan for us, for Weld
5 County, and then they also have to air -- an air pollution
6 emissions notice, which is another application through the state
7 that requires them to do various things, to make sure their
8 emissions or dust, and everything else, is kept to a minimum.
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Vaad.
10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Char, would that -- would that have
11 effect or purview over dust created off the road, as they go down
12 11 , even though that ' s a factor of a road maintenance agreement
13 with another entity?
14 MS . DAVIS : I don' t believe so. That ' s not something
15 that we would necessarily be looking at . It would be more on their
16 property, what ' s inside the USR boundaries .
17 Now, the APEN may -- not exactly sure . That ' s the state .
18 The state -- you might want to ask the applicant . I don' t have
19 that APEN. I don' t have information right now.
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Any other questions of staff? If not,
21 is the applicant, or representative of the applicant here? If so,
22 could you please come forward and give your name and address for
23 the record.
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
29
1 MR. VARRA: Good afternoon. I 'm Chris Varra. I 'm
2 president of Varra Companies, and I 'm president of Sand Land, Inc . ,
3 both associated with this project . And I can probably handle all
4 your operation needs, your APEN' s or any questions regarding that .
5 Brad has done most of the paperwork. I ' ll have him come up and
6 identify himself, and we ' re try to cover all your questions .
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE : I need to make sure that for the record,
8 you ' re identifying who' s speaking. So if it ' s you that ' s speaking,
9 Mr. Varra, make sure that if you change and you come back, just
10 come back and say "Varra, " and then just go on. So if I could get
11 your name and address for the record, if you' re going to be
12 providing testimony.
13 MR. VARRA: Yes, sir. Did you hear that? If you' ll
14 introduce yourself .
15 MR. JANES : Thank you, Chris . I 'm Brad Janes . I 'm a
16 professional forrester employed by Varra Companies . I reside at
17 408 Charlotte Street, in Johnstown, Colorado.
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Thank you.
19 MR. JANES : And I 'd like to thank you for the opportunity
20 to make this presentation today --
21 (Speaking away from microphone)
22 -- or could go through the task of outlining the sequence
23 to discuss, and tried to be prepared to discuss, the submittal in
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
30
1 its entirety. And at the same time, I 'd like to touch on areas
2 that maybe have already been touched on by staff (inaudible) --
3 MR. VARRA: I just (inaudible) -- Brad.
4 MR. JANES : Okay. So I 'm prepared to go through the
5 application in order to take specific questions at this time, if
6 you would prefer to go in that direction.
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Well, I think -- that ' s up to you. I
8 might suggest you present your application, and then when you get
9 done with that, if we have questions, then we can --
10 MR. JANES : Very well .
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : -- get into questions .
12 MR. JANES : Obviously, I ' ll go -- I ' ll try to touch on
13 it -- each area, briefly.
14 Varra Companies is a Colorado corporation that ' s been
15 doing business in Weld County since 1972 . The North Metro
16 Distribution Center is the nature of this project, and the name of
17 this project . And it is what it says it is .
18 We will bring materials into this location, process many
19 of those materials, and make them available for the developing
20 infrastructure . This is a property that will not arise immediately,
21 but will develop with the developing infrastructure as well .
22 One of the reasons why we ' re here is evident . You were
23 asking about the City and County of Broomfield. I did try to make
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
31
1 that available to you, but I didn' t want to be intrusive --
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Sir, you need to stay as close to the
3 microphone as you can --
4 MR. JANES : Very well .
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE : -- so that we can have your comments for
6 the record.
7 MR. JANES : (Speaking away from microphone) I can make
8 this available to you all to see, if you' d like to read it .
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Sure .
10 MR. JANES : If you ' d like to look at it . If everybody
11 can see this .
12 This is the proposed annexation area (inaudible) the
13 actual hemispheric (inaudible) the City and County of Broomfield.
14 They' re located approximately in this location adjacent to this
15 annexation.
16 There is an impact assigned (inaudible) to the city
17 coming to this area. We ' re already seeing similar types of impacts
18 in the immediate area of Road 11 .
19 Our intentions are to complement this developing
20 community, and we believe that we are -- are two years in front
21 of that actual -- full brunt of that impact as it develops .
22 The -- the intentions of the overall site development are
23 to create impacts toward the center of the property, and in that
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
32
1 manner, reduce impact to any surrounding properties . And we ' ll go
2 into some of the methods that we 've used to do that .
3 Let me show you on this map, so you can see the kind of
4 scale of development that ' s coming this way, or proximity to that
5 area . This shows it maybe a little better than the aerial from the
6 traffic study, if you can see the location of the proximity of the
7 Interstate 25 , approximately a mile to the west of the site .
8 County Road 2 turns into 7, which runs through Brighton,
9 and of course, Interstate 25 . Here ' s Road 6, and (inaudible) --
10 So the site is uniquely situated to service this area, and to
11 serve -- and to be served by the transportation corridors .
12 We could go to the overlay for the project itself .
13 (Inaudible) -- I can only see up close . I have to use my glasses
14 to see far away, so forgive me .
15 The present property, as indicated, is A-agriculture .
16 This is a site of deteriorated crop land. I 'm not sure how long
17 it ' s been out of production.
18 At 69 . 48 acres, the site is less than the 80 acres
19 required for prime farm land. The water was divorced some years
20 ago, and sold, I believe, to Northglenn. And essentially, you have
21 a non-productive piece of land. I think what was on here prior to
22 this -- immediately prior to this, was two illegal dog kennels .
23 The surrounding lands, I think, Chris went into at
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
33
1 length, and I don' t know that we need to go over that entirely.
2 But there are additional SUP ' s moving into the area. There ' s
3 actually one proposed at this location, as an impound lot . I think
4 just under eight acres .
5 While we can ' t say that we are essentially surrounded by
6 special use permits . We have, as what was indicated earlier, a
7 recreational storage area to the - - what would be the southeast .
8 The Union Pacific border is on the east .
9 To the north, the turkey farm, I believe, has been - - may
10 not be active, and may be three to four to five minor businesses
11 operating out of there .
12 You have the Bull Canal , which is also part of the FRICO
13 irrigation system. A company that delivers water for various
14 irrigation reasons, and lot of supply reasons, and the caretaker
15 property, located within this area, in the - - of the property.
16 You' ll see that we have, essentially, two plant site
17 envelopes . And those are intended to allow a combination of
18 plant sites .
19 Right now, because of the fact that the infrastructure,
20 water infrastructure hasn ' t quite caught up to this area, we ' re
21 limiting it to, at this point in time, one potential concrete
22 plant, and one potential asphalt plant . If we get water, there
23 may actually be the potential to have two concrete plants at those
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.ROTC - Varra Permit 1341
34
1 locations, just depending on the combination that ' s needed.
2 Stockpile and processing yard will accommodate both
3 wet and dry processing, but because of restrictions in water
4 availability, we 've limited it to dry processing at this time,
5 until we can get a permanent supply of water.
6 The plan to bring in water to the property is just for
7 those limited productions, until we can get a tap or other
8 commercially available source of water, or a commercial well .
9 As you see, also, there ' s the potential to develop rail
10 related accessory uses over time on this property. This has a lot
11 of potentials . Number one potential , I think, is that it may very
12 well preserve a line of rail services area .
13 And the approximate cost to rehabilitate a rail , or to
14 create new rail is in the millions of dol- -- one million dollars,
15 I believe, per mile. So every mile of rail that we lose in the
16 county, in the agricultural county, is a true loss . We believe
17 that this holds at least the potential of retaining some rail
18 service to the area, and retaining a valuable rail line.
19 There is a commercial office that will be linked to all
20 USR related activities . Commercial office - -
21 (Speaking away from microphone)
22 -- (inaudible) if I can find this area here.
23 Generally, the site will employ upwards of 18 employees .
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
35
1 The 24-hour operations that we 've discussed, Chris will go into
2 more detail , if you like, at a later time .
3 But essentially what we want to have is flexibility to
4 operate at night, because a lot of work does occur at night,
5 especially, for example, highway work. For the most part, this
6 would be an eight to twelve hour operation, nominal .
7 Traffic trips, originally estimated at six to three,
8 based upon a mean value from Fort Lupton operations, our traffic
9 study came in at 72 , and we ' ll get into the traffic study a little
10 later. But essentially the traffic impact study has been accepted
11 by Weld County Public Works .
12 Water I discussed, but essentially there ' ll be adequate
13 water, with two truck deliveries of water, to run the operations .
14 We have a commercial exempt well for all our sanitary water.
15 Our septic was designed by a qualified registered
16 professional engineer. We will get the necessary permit prior
17 to utilizing septic, or commencing operations .
18 The overall traffic considerations, as we mentioned in 72
19 mean, on the traffic study, will be dispersed over the area, under
20 the improved plan, the primary route being toward the south. And
21 this study was created by -- and done by Carter Burgess of Denver.
22 We ' re in the process of working through a road
23 maintenance agreement with the City and County of Broomfield. That
L-MAC A & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
36
1 has not been finalized, but we ' re nearing finalization, we believe .
2 We ' re getting close .
3 Essentially, the entire ground is regulated ground.
4 There is not any activity on this ground, essentially, that isn' t
5 regulated by someone or something that we have to meet .
6 All of our plant will be - - have to meet current EPA
7 standards . Our concrete plant, which we intend to put on this
8 property is, to my understanding, the first of its kind in Weld
9 County.
10 As far as, how do we mitigate - - and this is, of course,
11 I think, the primary concern of the board, in many respects, and
12 the surrounding community. We don' t get bonus points by coming in
13 and offending people . And we know that the onus is on us, to put
14 forward our best effort, within the realm of gravity, and science,
15 and good common sense and good judgment, to come in and try to
16 reduce impacts, to whatever facility goes in here .
17 And we 've attempted to do that . We believe we 've put
18 forward our best effort to do that . And to go into the elements of
19 what we were able to do to accomplish these things, I will discuss
20 those in a little detail .
21 One, in terms of -- I 'm going to go first to wind and
22 dust abatement , even though it ' s listed a little further down. One
23 of the things about dust, and this is a scientific relationship, is
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
37
1 you have to have both detachment and transportation of particles
2 for erosion to occur, whether it ' s water erosion or wind erosion - -
3 windblown particulate matter, for example .
4 Because of the lay of this land - -
5 (Speaking away from microphone)
6 - - it was where it opens up towards the southeast . In
7 order to get this into a constructive position the elevation of
8 this site has to be dropped, which will create a natural barrier to
9 wind by lowering it around here, to the north and west, essentially
10 creating a natural berm.
11 This will act both as a visual and noise buffer. It also
12 acts as a barrier to wind, so much as a shelter berm. So we drop
13 the elevation.
14 Then we 've compacted -- and we 've graveled the
15 surface, making detachment more difficult, and transportation
16 of those particles more difficult, because those particles are
17 (inaudible) --
18 We will concrete 300 feet in on the access road, and this
19 is something that we 've worked out with Public Works . And as we
20 are able, and as the site develops, we will complete that drive .
21 It will be gravel at that point, at 300 feet , until such time as we
22 can afford to do that .
23 The natural vegetation on here has gone -- the
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
38
1 agricultural production has gone to weed. So where we don' t gravel
2 the surface for transportation of materials, and resources, within
3 the (inaudible) outside of it, for the most part , is native grass .
4 And where those native grasses don' t occur, because of that
5 deteriorated agricultural condition, we ' ll seed it to native grass .
6 Native grass creates a very long-term, durable cover, that makes
7 the site less susceptible to particulate matter blowing off the
8 property.
9 So in effect , the empirical evidence would suggest that
10 this site is actually going to be more stable than its present
11 condition, respective of windblown material .
12 Respective of the plants, again, they' re modern. They
13 have collective bags that vacuum out the material . They prevent,
14 essentially, a translocation of those materials to EPA
15 specifications .
16 I did inquire about odor. We ' re not as familiar with the
17 asphalt . We ' re not even sure if asphalt necessarily will occur.
18 We want that flexibility. But our understanding from our sources
19 is that we don' t expect odor from the asphalt plant to translocate
20 more than 100 feet from the source . Again, due to these collection
21 systems in part .
22 Landscaping. We have enhanced some of the landscaping.
23 I do have a map here .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
39
1 (Speaking away from microphone)
2 I think you ' ll have a little trouble picking it up. But
3 essentially, this is the FRICO caretaker property, replace a berm
4 upwards of three feet in height, (inaudible) approximately this
5 location. So there ' d be another berm.
6 This is Lavonne (inaudible) house, and she is the owner,
7 and -- of this particular RV location, that is also -- that is her
8 residence -- and will face additional berms of a similar type here .
9 And that would also break up the additional landscape
10 with tree plantings, primarily locust and green ash, at 100 to 200
11 foot intervals, just so that they' re not too geometric . And
12 they' ll be in clusters up to three .
13 The effects of noise - - the studies that I 've done with a
14 hand meter suggest that you ' re at background residential -- if your
15 source is emanating at 80 decibels, which is an industrial level ,
16 at 400 feet you' re at background residential for noise, that ' s 55
17 decibels . Most of the structures here, if not all of them, from
18 the source of the plant (inaudible) are greater than 400 feet . So
19 the noise, we don' t anticipate being a nuisance .
20 There was one item in here . That is that we do and will
21 control speeds on the property.
22 We do have some remaining concerns respective of
23 subsurface interests that have not been completely worked out .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
40
1 And I will -- I will say this briefly, is that -- you
2 know, we want agreement with people . We want to help people who
3 move in here . We want them to know that we ' re doing what we can
4 to be sensible to their - - and respectful of their interests and - -
5 without, at the same time, disregarding our own.
6 For example, when Lavonne approached us and requested a
7 fence, I , for one, objected on esthetic grounds, but were sensitive
8 to her interests and what her needs were .
9 And brought forth to the president, and it was done . It
10 was done, and it was put in correspondence to the county, and we
11 will create an additional barrier by a chain link fence across that
12 portion of her property.
13 With respect to the subsurface mineral interests, with
14 respect to RME, we did have a professional geologist review their
15 concern for coal , and recovery of coal below our ground.
16 And we also had a legal review, and we made those papers
17 known to the board, and if you' re not familiar with them, we have
18 them, but be prepared to discuss them. But essentially they found
19 no merit in the RME case for a charge of $10, 000 for coal , when
20 they can' t economically recover the deposit .
21 As far as the former HS Resources, now Kerr-McGee, we did
22 meet on site with Chris Grenoux, who I believe is in the audience
23 today. I believe we established that there is adequate area and
L-MAC R E T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
41
1 access, but disagreement in terms of what it would cost, if we
2 inconvenience them. And that ' s an interesting subject all by
3 itself .
4 We did not reply to the request to a meeting, because we
5 have not received replies out at the CGRS, our legal review, nor to
6 our plot plan. In other words, show us where the conflict lies .
7 We don' t believe that there is one . We believe that they
8 have adequate area, adequate access, to perform their operations,
9 to get to their resources .
10 With regard to FRICO, I 've met with Manual Montoya, a
11 couple of times . And in the process of this, of course, naturally,
12 we want to assert ourseves in the sense that we want to be able to
13 establish a secondary access road, utilizing the FRICO easement,
14 which we maintain control at the surface .
15 But we didn' t want it as a bone of contention. We don' t
16 want to appear difficult; that we ' re being watched in the state
17 of a USR. In all these instances, the USR was held up to us as
18 something they want to obstruct or hold up, until we negotiate
19 with them to their satisfaction.
20 And I don ' t believe we have a problem negotiating. I
21 think we just want to negotiate on level ground.
22 And to haul the USR up and use it as a form of leverage
23 is difficult, because we are being judged. Our demeanor and our
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
42
1 decorum, and our -- the way we conduct ourselves is being judged.
2 And negotiations are a delicate and complicated matter.
3 As far as some stipulations in the USR, we can attend to
4 those when the board is ready. There are some stipulations we ' d
5 like to discuss with the board.
6 But that ' s pretty much an overview, I believe, of the
7 overall project . And I 'm prepared to entertain any questions you
8 might have, or turn it over to Chris, if he has additional
9 comments .
10 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Are there any questions of the
11 applicant? Commissioner Vaad.
12 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I realize you said you ' re working on
13 the road improvements agreement with Broomfield, but can you
14 elaborate to the extent, is it going to deal with dust abatement on
15 that section of Road 11?
16 MR. VARRA: Okay. This is Chris Varra, again, speaking.
17 I 've met with Broomfield several times . We 've roughed out
18 everything.
19 The area Broomfield has asked us to participate in is
20 from Road 2 to Road 6, County Road 11 ; and Road 6-West, to the
21 Frontage Road.
22 In the specifics of maintenance, grading, like the county
23 does, and dust control , like the county does with dust suppressant .
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
43
1 Reconstruction, graveling, re-doing asphalt, and stuff,
2 is all proportionate. We will inspect and do a complete video in
3 advance, probably, and whatever the costs are, we ' re paying all our
4 porportionate shares on reconstruction.
5 So far as maintenance, in that two to five years, is what
6 we both anticipate, before the infrastructure even begins to come
7 through, because we didn' t want to spend money and build that
8 infrastructure until the sub-infrastructure was built . We decided
9 to get along with gravel and maintenance .
10 There ' s a few more little bits and pieces in the
11 agreement, but that ' s about it .
12 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. I ' d like to talk a little bit
13 more about the dust abatement, because as you heard, that was a
14 concern of the neighbor. And you said, clearly, that it was part
15 of the agreement . Now, is that to be monitored on the amount of
16 dust, or how often would you apply the magnesium chloride, or
17 whatever chloride you would? How will that be determined between
18 you and Broomfield?
19 MR. VARRA: It was as needed.
20 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay.
21 MR. VARRA: And Broomfield was really the controlling
22 agent on it .
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. Thank you.
L-MAC R & T (303)998-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
44
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Long?
2 COMMISSIONER LONG: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you
3 speak to the imported material , and the haul routes? Somebody
4 mentioned that might be rail, but elaborate more on that .
5 MR. VARRA: Imported materials .
6 COMMISSIONER LONG: Are they going to be coming on
7 trucks, or - -
8 MR. VARRA: Yes, everything will be on trucks .
9 COMMISSIONER LONG: And would that haul route be
10 the same?
11 MR. VARRA: Yes . I would say you' ll see more northern,
12 versus the southern end, but your route is going to be down Road
13 11, or west on 6 , is going to be your two primary haul routes .
14 It ' s -- really, it ' s going to be in Broomfield.
15 Delivery routes, it ' s dispensed more or less by your
16 character of Carter Burgess . They took the surrounding areas,
17 which they' re doing traffic counts for the highway department,
18 they' re doing impact studies for all the -- a lot of the
19 residential projects . They went to the cities, they pulled
20 everything up .
21 They put us at a percentage of the market, and said,
22 "Here ' s what we believe you will do, Varra. " And they really put
23 the plan together -- really without -- little input from us . They
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
45
1 analyzed all our operations, where we ' re sitting today, and said,
2 "Here ' s what we see you doing. "
3 And they did the total traffic impact study, minus a few
4 things that we had to input, and Weld County' s input .
5 COMMISSIONER LONG: So you' re saying that the - - most of
6 the import would be from the north, but it ' d still be using the
7 same haul route?
8 MR. VARRA: Yes . Those -- 11 and 6 , yes .
9 COMMISSIONER LONG: So it ' d be coming down I-25 , or 85,
10 or something, and then -- or I-25 and --
11 MR. VARRA: To the frontage roads, yes .
12 COMMISSIONER LONG: To the frontage roads .
13 MR. VARRA: So far as deliveries, outside of those areas,
14 Weld County roads, I think there might be a little bit on Road 11 ,
15 between Dacono and Broomfield. I 'm not sure .
16 East . It ' ll all be just local deliveries, if anyone
17 calls for a delivery of concrete or gravel .
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
19 COMMISSIONER VAAD: One of the people in the public asked
20 before lunch -- I think she mistakenly said C-470 . I suppose she
21 meant E-470 . Do you have any insight you can give us on what that
22 was about, or --
23 MR. VARRA: Oh. We own property on E-470, but where
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
46
1 it ' s going through Northwest Parkway. But we have no work under
2 contract --
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay.
4 MR. VARRA: -- no bids out that were - - we have a couple
5 of bids out , but no bids that we are aware we were low on. We are
6 aware of a couple of them that we were not low on.
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Couple questions . First of all, on
8 speed. You said you were going to control speed. Do you have
9 subcontractors moving this product on and then moving it off?
10 MR. VARRA: On site?
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Yes .
12 MR. VARRA: Yes . We hire trucks -- the preliminary would
13 be 18 permanent employees, and everyone on site will be our
14 employees, as of now.
15 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay.
16 MR. VARRA: So far as controlling the speed, we have a
17 full time safety manager. He patrols all our operations, almost as
18 often as I do. I 'm there on a daily basis .
19 But he will probably meet with Broomfield, go over
20 traffic, speeds on the roadways themselves . The dust, he ' ll meet
21 with Broomfield to make sure it ' s controlled. He ' s worked with
22 Weld County Health Department , Brad' s worked with Weld County
23 Health Department . If we get a complaint, we ' re there to mitigate
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
47
1 it and get it taken care of .
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Can you control the speed of your
3 subcontractors?
4 MR. VARRA: Yes .
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE : The other question I had was - - well ,
6 maybe along that line . What is the speed along this road? 35?
7 What is the speed limit on this road, even though it ' s a Broomfield
8 road?
9 MR. VARRA: I did not -- I did not visit the site and
10 look at the posted speed limit . I 'm sorry. I really can ' t - -
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : It ' s a gravel road.
12 MR. VARRA: -- answer. It is a gravel road.
13 CHAIRMAN GEILE : What ' s the most it can be?
14 MR. VARRA: If it ' s -- well , if it ' s not posted less than
15 55 -- normally, it would be 55 , unless it had a reduced posting,
16 and I 'm not aware that it does have a reduced posting. So it ' s
17 probably -- it ' s probably 55, but I did not go down and look.
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Can you imagine what it would be like
19 for all these trucks, between 50 and 100, going up and down that
20 road at 55 miles an hour?
21 MR. VARRA: I agree . The only place I really know that ' s
22 posted is Dacono, when you get up there, and I believe it ' s 35 .
23 CHAIRMAN GEILE : The other question I had would be hours
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
48
1 of operation.
2 MR. VARRA: Okay.
3 CHAIRMAN GEILE : If you lived on that road, would you
4 want trucks going up and down it all 24 hours a day, ' cause I think
5 what I heard was that you wanted the flexibility to do that . And
6 of course that flexibility turns into a lot of time that you ' re
7 operating 24 hours a day.
8 And the other thing I thought I heard was, your
9 standing -- your standard operation would be between 8 : 00 and
10 12 : 00 . I assume that ' s 8 : 00 in the morning and 12 : 00 at night .
11 Maybe I didn' t hear that right .
12 MR. VARRA: I -- it said - -
13 CHAIRMAN GEILE : 8 : 00 in the morning, and 12 : 00 midnight .
14 MR. VARRA: -- about ten to twelve hours a day. Those
15 hours run about 6 : 00 till 6 : 00 . We get a few strays later, like to
16 8 : 00 . We get a few strays earlier.
17 And I think I put it in the traffic plan to Weld County,
18 how for -- we went back for -- and picked an average month at our
19 Fort Lupton operations . And we analyzed what had happened that we
20 had to do 24 hours a day, which was very minute .
21 But our hours were all recorded and filed with Weld
22 County. And it run -- I 'm going to say like 6 : 00 in the morning
23 till 6 : 00 in the evening.
L-MAC R 5 T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
49
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE : So dusk to dawn, ' cause that ' s our
2 ordinance. Isn' t that what our ordinance says?
3 MR. VARRA: Yes .
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Counsel , Commissioner Vaad.
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: (Inaudible) The other day we were
6 dealing with the gravel mine operation, and in deference to the
7 neighbors, we worked out an agreement , and I ' ll ask you to consider
8 this . You don' t need to answer right now.
9 But it would be like dusk to dawn, six days a week,
10 unless you had, like, a big paving job that had to be done,
11 and then that would be okay, but you would tell us about it,
12 so that we would know that was in our call to planning service
13 or public works .
14 And we saw that, and I think the neighbors saw that as an
15 accommodation to them, to -- at least some kind of assurance that
16 this wasn' t going to be -- and you 've already said it wouldn' t be
17 24 hours, except on special occasions . So if you' d give that some
18 thought, and --
19 MR. VARRA: I can, but I can be up front and honest .
20 When we bought out M & M Concrete was day one when we changed
21 over into the concrete business . And it ' ll be three years in a
22 few weeks .
23 In that three years -- we have two plants under
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
50
1 operation - - I believe, maybe a dozen times we 've had to have
2 after-hour operations . The biggest pour was one that was 2 , 000
3 yards, which took 18 hours straight . It was a slab for a library,
4 and it had to be done in one pour.
5 And iIf it needs to be addressed, I believe we can.
6 Because really, it ' s government work. And how do we make --
7 simplify it for our neighbors and government here . I don' t know
8 what the best way is, but we ' re sure willing to try.
9 COMMISSIONER VAAD: The standard is under 23-4-290 . I
10 think it ' s down in -- (inaudible) 23 . And it talks about 23-2-290 ,
11 but it ' s 23-4-290 , in subparagraph B, and it says, "All sand and
12 gravel operations shall be conducted during the hours of daylight,
13 except in the case of public or private emergency, or to make
14 necessary repairs to equipment . "
15 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Is that -- is that in here? I couldn' t
16 find it .
17 COMMISSIONER VAAD: It ' s under development standard
18 number 23 . There ' s reference to -- it says, 23-2-290 .
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Oh, I see . You' re referencing the --
20 oh, I 'm with you. Okay.
21 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And it should say 23-4-290 .
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE: 4-290 or 240 .
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: 23-4-290 .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra permit 1341
51
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Would you go through that, again, for
2 the applicant?
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD: It says (b) - - it says, "All sand and
4 gravel operations shall be conducted during the hours of daylight,
5 except in the case of public or private emergency, or to make
6 necessary repairs to equipment . "
7 There ' s a second sentence there . I 'm not certain if it
8 would apply, though. It says, "This restriction shall not apply
9 to operations of administrative or executive offices or repair
10 facilities located on the property. "
11 MR. VARRA: Now, the only thing I could address to that,
12 and I 'm not trying to challenge it is, are CDOT and local , city,
13 county governments, are addressing us to work certain hours to do
14 certain things, whether it be underground pipeline that has to be
15 completely encased in concrete, or the gravel has to be there
16 during those hours . If it ' s not an emergency, we ' re being --
17 having to bid and build it that way.
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Yeah. And I think, with Commissioner
19 Vaad, if I could, Commissioner, is suggesting that when those
20 occasions -- when those situations arise, we be notified so that
21 we ' ll know what ' s going on. So if we get complaints from the area,
22 if in fact we do, we ' ll know what the situation is .
23 MR. VARRA: Okay.
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
52
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Is that your point, commissioner?
2 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mm-hmm.
3 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Jerke .
4 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Communication is nice, and all that,
5 but I just keep coming back to the idea of , I guess, to what level
6 of mitigation you' re going to actually do on roads that apparently
7 we don ' t have any say over, anymore .
8 This is -- this whole hearing reminds me of being between
9 the rock and the hard spot , because apparently we have little to
10 say over County Road 11, and yet it appears to me that road,
11 frankly, ought to be paved, with the amount of traffic that it ' s
12 going to have on it . And I don' t know if that ' s a requirement that
13 we could tell you to do, to go ahead and require that type of
14 thing, because those aren' t our roads anymore . I don ' t know if you
15 want to respond to that, or not, but --
16 MR. VARRA: I can -- I can address it, because it went
17 through our whole company and all of our officers, and there ' s been
18 a lot of discussion on it with Broomfield, in conjunction.
19 And the best we can do with that sub-infrastructure,
20 meaning sewer and water, the utilities throughout that area, they
21 had no idea. And we all looked at it , and made comments back and
22 forth to one another, should we go to that extent .
23 I guess, if our traffic kicks up, which we 've agreed with
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
53
1 this - - with Weld County, come in and file another traffic plan,
2 and get it taken care of, Varra is prepared to pave out to Road 6,
3 and change our traffic routes, if we have to, because of what it
4 happening in that community and that area. And we are very well
5 prepared to pave out to Road 6 .
6 Broomfield is aware of it , and if it ' s causing too much
7 of an impact to the south, we are going to accommodate everyone the
8 best we can. We still might have to send stray loads that way.
9 But that is one of our -- that is one of our fallbacks,
10 and we ' re - - Broomfield' s not asked us to do it , because of the
11 substructure . They know we ' re pulling it out of our pocket, and
12 they know it ' s going to get tore right out . But we ' re prepared to
13 do it , anyhow.
14 COMMISSIONER JERKE : So you ' re talking about the area
15 from Highway 7, basically?
16 MR. VARRA: No.
17 COMMISSIONER JERKE : County Road 2 over to 6, or what?
18 MR. VARRA: This site. Coming back to County Road 6
19 West, but we pave out this section here, and cut our impact on the
20 county road to the south the best we could.
21 COMMISSIONER JERKS: And at I-25, your trucks would use
22 frontage road --
23 MR. VARRA: Yes .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
54
1 COMMISSIONER JERKE : -- to go north and south, till you
2 hit the highway?
3 MR. VARRA: Yes .
4 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Okay.
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE : One other question. It sounds to
6 me like there ' s still negotiations that need to be held with
7 the various mineral owners and others, drillers and so forth in
8 the area .
9 I would hope that you don' t want us to get in the middle
10 of making those determinations for you, because we ' d just as soon
11 have you and them come to your own agreements and not have to have
12 us get in the middle of it .
13 MR. VARRA: Umm, you 've asked us to file an agreement
14 with our USR. There is a surface agreement that is signed that
15 came with the property when we received it . And it was for the
16 wells -- it really doesn' t -- it does speak to hydrocarbons and
17 coal underground.
18 And for me to sit back and look at it -- they sent us a
19 letter and asked for $10, 000 . I had a -- I hired a geologist to do
20 an independent study. He came up with no value .
21 In turn, I had my attorney send them a letter out and
22 said I would give them $1, 000 to relinquish their coal rights . Oil
23 and gas is pretty well spoken to.
L-MAC R & T (303)998-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
55
1 Brad, I ' d like for you to pull a map . And - - reasonably,
2 we can make -- make it all work within our site .
3 So I 'm saying, the surface agreement that ' s intact today,
4 I think we should be able to file it with the county, and it should
5 take care of things . If they go for the coal, and I don ' t have an
6 agreement, they still have to come back to me, and pay me a surface
7 damage . They might say, "Well, when we signed this, it was
8 agricultural , " but they've had that lease for 100 years .
9 100 years ago, they could have took the coal . Things
10 change every day. And so far as I 'm concerned, I 'm willing to deal
11 with the coal , the surface damages, or anything.
12 The oil and gas, I can' t see where we can' t accommodate
13 their wells on site . I mean, they have to work with us, run the
14 lines to where they can work with us, we can work with them.
15 There is a surface agreement -- agreement that they
16 wrote, not us . And the -- the prior people that owned the
17 property. So I 'm assuming we have a surface agreement filed
18 right now on the property. They might want to address it with
19 you, but --
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. But before they did -- I know
21 they' re sitting here going to address it, but I just wanted to --
22 MR. VARRA: They' re chomping at the bit at me .
23 A VOICE : (Inaudible)
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.90CC - Varra Permit 1341
56
1 MR. VARRA: Just for - - I had Brad go into the county and
2 pull your maps . Now, we might have to come in a little closer.
3 They' re upside down.
4 According to the Oil and Gas Commission -- and I mean,
5 things can be moved, and they've drilled outside of -- even their
6 squares, to accommodate people .
7 (Speaking away from microphone)
8 But we had a well within this center section now, which
9 this area is accommodated.
10 We brought our rail spur in. We went around the well ,
11 brought it all the way back around this property, and back out and
12 in. We have to accommodate what ' s in this area. We have to
13 accommodate what ' s -- within this area .
14 We ' re not going to get a dollar, if I remember reading
15 the surface agreement right . They have to papy us a percentage of
16 whatever they take out of that ground.
17 It was written so far back (inaudible) -- it boils down
18 to, they' re going to -- if they' re not careful, they' re going to
19 end up with ten percent of the property, and we just need to
20 mitigate to accommodate both of our needs .
21 We have a tank battery up in here, which is in a good
22 spot . I mean, the whole site is really set up well .
23 And to come to an agreement or use the USR that says we
b-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
57
1 don' t want these people to get their permit , it ' s pretty black and
2 white, that we went around, and we have enough room to accommodate
3 their operations in this, with the surface agreement we have today.
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE : The last question that came up would be
5 the time that you' re going to be on the site . Is this something
6 that you had -- your plans are in perpetuity, or is it the next
7 five years, or what are your - -
8 MR. VARRA: Well , I would say, more or less like a
9 perpetuity operation. Anything can change .
10 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Are there any other questions of
11 the board?
12 MR. VARRA: I might add one thing. The property owner we
13 purchased from --
14 (Speaking away from microphone)
15 -- there is a major electrical substation going in right
16 here -- no, let me get this (inaudible) straight, across here .
17 That they supposedly bought the property for, but it ' s a union
18 REA, or -- Bureau of Reclamation has those power lines going
19 through there now, so I 'm not sure who the substation' s going
20 to be, but there ' s going to be a major electrical substation put
21 in there, too.
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Well , if your equipment is
23 electrical, it ' s nice to have it that close .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
58
1 MR. VARRA: We have a lot of electrical , yes .
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Is there any other point you want
3 to make, Mr. Varra?
4 MR. VARRA: No.
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay.
6 MR. JANES : (Speaking away from microphone) We only had
7 some comments respective of the --
8 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Sir, you have to come to the --
9 MR. JANES : Oh. Brad Janes . We only had some comments
10 respective -- just light comments respective of some of the
11 resolution. Didn' t know if you wanted to entertain that now.
12 CHAIRMAN GEILE: This is the point to do it .
13 MR. JANES : Okay. Very well . I did the endeavor to
14 respond to some of the outstanding issues that Chris and I had
15 on the table, and some of them pertaining to -- some of them
16 pertaining to Char Davis ' s offices, and some respective of
17 planning. They were more for point of clarification.
18 One . I think Char had already talked to the dust
19 abatement plan. We had talked and resolved that the dust abatement
20 plan, which she ' d overlooked, was in the permit and adequate .
21 One respective of an update, respective of FRICO.
22 One, a clarification on point, regarding the Colorado --
23 Colorado Geological Survey, where I more or less reiterated some
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
59
1 assurances I thought were already in the permit .
2 A landscape plan which I went over topically on the
3 overview. And I have a map for Chris .
4 Respective of actual resolution considerations . One that
5 I wanted to discuss just briefly with you, was on -- under the --
6 I 'm trying to find it . It ' s page 3 , part 1, that says that we have
7 to have everything ready in 30 days, subsequent of approval , should
8 that occur today.
9 And my understanding is, we can request extensions . I
10 didn' t know if the board might want to grant some additional time
11 there, because I think we do have some things that -- it seems to
12 always take longer than 30 days .
13 So that was just one, I was going to ask for some
14 additional time on it, if we needed it, or if you want to -- or if
15 we do it the other way, we can do that . But I wanted to at least
16 bring it up. But I felt it could go longer than 30 days .
17 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Counsel, can we extend that?
18 MR. BARKER: The ordinance says 30 days, and that ' s the
19 requirement . I think the thing is -- the reality of the situation
20 is, that if someone goes beyond that, there ' s really a question as
21 to, are they in violation of that? And I 'm not certain if they
22 didn' t get it in, they would take care of it .
23 So I guess saying that, I 'm more inclined to say that if
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
60
1 they need some additional time, it ' s better to deal with it now,
2 instead of on the back end of it, giving them more time when they
3 come in. So if they need 60 days instead of 30 , we probably ought
4 to put that in now.
5 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
6 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. If I can ask, Chris what ' s the
7 implication of that, if we extend that?
8 MR. GATHMAN: I don' t really see any major implications
9 to that . I mean, if we do have some USR ' s where it does take
10 longer, if they have several issues that they need to address . And
11 we try to work with them, as staff, so we ' re acceptable with that .
12 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Mr. Janes, what else did you have?
13 MR. JANES : I think I 'm going to avoid some of these .
14 One that -- on page 6, we would address Farmers Reservoir.
15 There ' s a curiosity where we believe that there ' s many
16 elements where we 've addressed it, either in correspondence, as
17 part of the permit, or in the permit itself, that it appears
18 resolution. And I don' t have a problem with it on one level .
19 I just want to -- there appears to be a certain redundancy to it .
20 The primary one was Part N. I wanted to at least address
21 the fact that when they were talking about screening and buffering
22 adjacent residents to the west and east .
23 The only real site limitation to screening is to the
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra permit 1341
61
1 east, because of the rail . And I -- we just do not want to leave
2 that stone unturned. We want to be forthright with you. That is
3 problematic .
4 Now, we don' t have a problem donating trees to that
5 landowner of some known type and quality, for them to plant, or for
6 us to plant for them on their property, bordering the outside of
7 the UP rail, if that ' s a concern, to break up, maybe, some of the
8 visual .
9 But the nearest resident, I believe, is well over a half
10 mile away to the east . So I just want to be forthright with you,
11 respective of that .
12 We didn' t want to disrespect that concern, but we also
13 wanted to make sure that the board and staff are fully aware as to
14 the site limitations . Just some of the problems of accommodating
15 that request . So I wanted to speak to it .
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Vaad.
17 COMMISSIONER VAAD: You submitted bids, but you aren' t
18 proposing we take it out of the resolution? You ' re just saying,
19 "Here are the answers to those . " I mean, this is dated today' s --
20 MR. JANES : Yes, sir. The landscape plan, to the extent
21 that we can provide it . I have updated the landscape plan, but as
22 far as accommodating the east, there ' s very little that we --
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: My point was, though -- ' cause these
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
62
1 address specific paragraphs in the resolution. You ' re not going to
2 change that? This may take care of it, but --
3 MR. JANES : No. We just want you to understand --
4 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Okay.
5 MR. JANES : - - the site limitations respective of
6 accommodating that view to the east .
7 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay.
8 MR. JANES : I believe that at this point, unless you have
9 others, Chris --
10 MR. VARRA: No.
11 MR. JANES : -- that concludes our presentation.
12 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Commissioner Long.
13 COMMISSIONER LONG: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you
14 speak more about the railroad loop that you' re putting around
15 (inaudible) used to move material in the site itself, or - -
16 MR. JANES : Yes, sir. We can speak to that objective .
17 MR. VARRA: Chris Varra, again. Railroad -- they' re
18 doing it now. They' re railing all kinds of gravel into Denver.
19 And that ' s the reason we are running out in Weld County. Too many
20 oil wells taking up all our gravel .
21 But we have to bring gravel in by rail . It ' s becoming
22 shorter and shorter. We ' re running out of gravel . LaFarge,
23 Aggregate Industries, Varra. We have a major reserve in Northern
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra permit 1341
63
1 Colorado by L.G. Avherst (phonetic) , which is our car pit
2 operations . It amounts to about 16, 000 acres . It is on the
3 UP, too .
4 And we know eventually -- we were thinking between five
5 and ten years . Two to five years to develop. Five to ten years,
6 we believe we ' ll be railing in all the gravel to that location.
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Varra .
8 MR. VARRA: Okay.
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : This is a public meeting -- hearing. Is
10 there anybody in the audience who wishes to address the board.
11 MS . BRUGGER: May I come up, again?
12 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Certainly, you can come back.
13 MS . BRUGGER: I made arrangements with my kids so I could
14 stay. Regina Brugger, 885 Weld County Road 11 .
15 It didn' t dawn on me until listening a little bit more
16 that there is no posted speed limit on Road 11 . I have two
17 children, 6 and 8 , and I know there ' s a few people down the road
18 south of me -- I 'm at the sharp curve in the road, right at the
19 Northglenn Water Treatment Plant -- they also have children. A
20 school bus goes up and down the street daily.
21 That, I 'm concerned about now, with big trucks going up
22 and down that road. I have seen motorcycles, the kids on dirt
23 bikes, going up and down that road, also. That never dawned on me
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
64
1 until sittin' here listening.
2 And I 'd just like to make one statement . To issue a
3 permit for this company to continue, I feel, would not be right,
4 until everything is settled with the City of Broomfield, beings
5 that is their only means of road use, as owned by the City of
6 Broomfield, and that has not been concluded yet . Thanks .
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Thank you very much. Is there anyone
8 else in the audience that wishes to speak to the application?
9 Would you please give your name and address for the record?
10 MR. GRENOW: Okay. My name is Chris Grenow. I 'm with
11 Kerr-McGee Rocky Mountain Corporation, 1999 Broadway, Suite 3600 ,
12 Denver, Colorado.
13 I 'm a landman for Kerr-McGee, and have attended the
14 initial planning hearing with the Planning and Zoning Commission.
15 At that meeting, we stated our objection to the proposed
16 operation or to the design of the operation, as presented, until we
17 worked out some of the specifics of the operational concerns that
18 we have for the property.
19 After the meeting, a couple days after, I did meet with
20 Mr. Janes on site. That meeting was basically the first step in
21 our process to negotiate a surface use agreement for the property.
22 Mr. Varra and Mr. Janes both had mentioned that there is
23 a surface use agreement in place, which is not totally correct, and
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.B000 - Varra Permit 1341
65
1 I ' ll let the representatives of RME Petroleum explain that process
2 and the document that they were referring to.
3 Some just general concerns that we have. We do operate
4 an existing natural gas well on the property. The well -- we
5 inherited the well from Amoco. The well was drilled some time ago .
6 We do have production facilities on the property.
7 And with the design of the railway around that property,
8 our access -- we have concerns about access in and out of the site,
9 as well as setbacks from the facilities and the wellhead, if we
10 ever had to get back on site to work over the well , or to perform
11 any emergency operations .
12 The other issue that we had were future drill sites . We
13 do have two future drill sites on the property, that are indicated
14 by the boxes on the map here . We are regulated by the Colorado Oil
15 and Gas Conservation Commission.
16 What is represented here are the legal drilling windows
17 on the property. And Mr. Varra is correct, that it appears we can
18 work around what they have designed for the property, but we have
19 not seen anything in writing, or had an opportunity to negotiate
20 with them to that effect . To determine that, and put that in
21 writing, so that we are comfortable saying that these are our
22 operations areas, and we can go and access these sites when it
23 becomes necessary for us to drill these wells .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
66
1 And so we have not had any communication after the
2 intitial meeting on site . And therefore, we are continuing our
3 objection to the application.
4 And we ' d just like to say a few other things that we
5 heard that I was not aware of, by listening to Mr. Janes speak.
6 He had talked about changing the elevation of the
7 property for noise and dust abatement . And doing that around some
8 of our facilities will have a significant impact to those, and we
9 were not aware of those .
10 So those - - there ' s a few other specific items that have
11 not been addressed, and we feel we need more time to address those
12 issues with the applicant . And we certainly, as well, are more
13 than willing to work with them and enter into a more comprehensive
14 surface use agreement to address these issues .
15 And then I think that ' s it . So I 'm done . I appreciate
16 the time.
17 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Are there any questions?
18 MR. GRENOW: If you have any questions, I ' d be happy to
19 answer.
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Vaad.
21 COMMISSIONER VAAD: You said the last time you had an
22 oppor- -- I guess the last -- obviously the last time you had an
23 opportunity to comment on this was at the Planning Commission
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
67
1 Meeting. Was that July 17th, or thereabouts?
2 MR. GRENOW: Yeah, I believe -- that is correct . We met
3 on site . Let me make sure of the date . Friday, August 10th. That
4 was our initial contact with the applicant .
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Oh, okay.
6 MR. GRENOW: So the only reason we were aware of this was
7 by Weld County notification that the process was in place to go
8 through the county. We attended that meeting. We formally
9 objected in writing, and attended as well .
10 And then the initial contact, to begin discussions toward
11 a surface use agreement with Kerr McGee, was at that initial onsite
12 meeting on August 10th. And again, after that meeting, we had no
13 further contact with the applicant , besides a few letters .
14 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Jerke .
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Is there a current surface agreement
16 on the property?
17 MR. GRENOW: Excuse me?
18 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Is there a current surface agreement
19 with the property owner?
20 MR. GRENOW: Not currently with the -- with the oil and
21 gas operator, no.
22 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. You said there were two more
23 locations there .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
68
1 MR. GRENOW: Correct .
2 COMMISSIONER JERKE : I just now happened to notice how
3 many total acres we ' re dealing with here. But I see 19 there, and
4 four, and four in the corners .
5 MR. GRENOW: Your talking in the -- and probably Chris
6 can tell you the exact acres, but you' re totaling a little less
7 than 80 acres of the total -- total area of the property, and --
8 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Well, the application is presented as
9 69 acres .
10 MR. GRENOW: 69 acres, excluding -- kind of --
11 (Speaking away from microphone)
12 - - the existing well , is what they have identified here .
13 This would be in the center of the (inaudible) drilling window,
14 which is identified on this plat as the yellow box in the middle .
15 I don' t know if you can see from back here, but this is
16 the existing well . So we do have two future drill sites south of
17 this existing well, and they would approximately fall -- in this
18 area would be one future drill site, which is (inaudible) split a
19 portion of their property, would be in this area.
20 The second drill site would be in this area of the
21 property. So that --
22 COMMISSIONER LONG: See, I 'm just trying to get a feel
23 on what your density is, because I 'm used to one per forty, and
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
69
1 now I 'm hearing there ' s 69 acres gross, with the possibility of
2 three wells . It seems to me it ' s a push to try to get to two . So
3 help me understand how you get three in 69 .
4 MR. GRENOW: Sure, absolutely. Under Colorado Rule, the
5 Oil and Gas Conservation Commission Rule 318 (a) , allows for five
6 wells in a 160 acre tract of land.
7 So when you space that out, what Mr. Varra and Brad have
8 done, have identified this as - - this represents a 160 total parcel
9 here . And so you've identified the five legal drilling windows
10 within that 160 acre tract .
11 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Okay. You 've got five in 160 .
12 Sounds like once again, like you' re putting the burden on less than
13 80 . How does that --
14 MR. GRENOW: Well , not -- well, it is in a sense, because
15 the property ownership is carved up. And that ' s what we need to
16 determine, those exact well locations in a manner of working.
17 But what we ' re saying is, within that legal drilling
18 window, a portion of that falls on the applicants property. And we
19 need to address, if we were to drill those two wells, within that
20 legal drilling window, a portion of that could be -- or will be on
21 the applicants property that ' s part of this application.
22 So we need to identify those sites . You are correct , and
23 come to -- well , can we drill it off the property, and will it have
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
70
1 an impact . But that ' s again, where we have not had time to -- to
2 even negotiate towards that .
3 COMMISSIONER JERKE : So is this all Union Pacific on
4 either side?
5 MR. GRENOW: Correct . They own -- they can confirm that,
6 but I believe they own the entire section, and the minerals
7 beneath.
8 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Sounds to me like it ought to be
9 fairly doable, then.
10 MR. GRENOW: Yeah, I would think so, but we need to --
11 the problem with that is, we need to identify that, because you
12 know, here we are saying, "Well , we are agreeing to work with you
13 in principle, " and that ' s fine . But unless there ' s something filed
14 in writing saying, this is where these sites will be, then there ' s
15 no answer to say well , they' ll put a batch plant there, and that
16 site won' t be accessed.
17 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Any other questions? If not, thank you.
18 MR. GRENOW: Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Does anyone else wish to address the
20 board today? If you' d please come forth and give your name and
21 address for the record.
22 MR. SCHINDLER: I appreciate this opportunity to address
23 the board. My name is Ron Schindler. Address is 1200 Timberloch --
L-MAC a & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
71
1 that ' s spelled T-I-M-B-E-R-L-O-C-H - - Place, The Woodlands, Texas .
2 I 'm a senior attorney for RME Petroleum Company and RME
3 Land Corporation, who are the successors in interest to the Union
4 Pacific Railroad, and then the Union Pacific mineral owner.
5 I 'd like to start by just giving sort of a snapshot of
6 where we are and how we got here . RME Petroleum Company owns all
7 of the oil and gas mineral interests associated with what you ' re
8 considering. These interests are currently held under a lease with
9 Kerr-McGee . And we ' re the owner, they' re the lessor.
10 There is a producing well on the property, on the
11 southwest quarter of the northwest quarter, and so there is active
12 production going on in the section. RME Land Corp owns all the
13 other minerals, including the coal minerals .
14 And we have -- I have reviewed a written statement by one
15 of our senior geologists who has evaluated this property for coal
16 potential . He states that it is within the Boulder Weld Coal
17 Field, which, as you all probably know, has had extensive
18 historical coal mining. Of particular interest in this area
19 is Seam No. Three in the Laramie formation.
20 At this particular location, Seam No. 3 is less than 500
21 feet deep, which is minable reserve. It has high BTU value at
22 9, 180 to 98 hundred BTU' s per pound, and it ' s very low sulfur
23 content coal, so that it ' s high quality, clean burning coal . The
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.HOCC - Varra Permit 1341
72
1 sulfur content is . 3 to . 8 percent .
2 In the opinion of our geologist , of the RME Land Corp.
3 geologist , under this particular section we have 5, 425 million
4 tons, approximately, that are -- that are possible to mine. There
5 is also, as you may also know, always the potential for coal bed
6 methane, when you' re dealing with the coal seam.
7 Historically, Union Pacific Railroad Company, in 1902 ,
8 severed the minerals from the surface . And at that time, in the
9 severance document, there was - - there was a clause included in the
10 severance document that granted the mineral owner any easements
11 that it needed over the surface that were convenient and necessary.
12 This particular document is still binding on the parties,
13 including surface owner and the mineral owner. There is an oil and
14 gas lease coming from the 197O ' s which governs the property. I 've
15 already mentioned that somewhat .
16 And there is a surface owners agreement dating 1990,
17 pertaining to the -- pertaining to the property. And it includes a
18 grant of some surface easements that weren' t originally included
19 within the severed -- the severance document .
20 But it doesn' t address several things that I think are of
21 interest to this board, and that are certainly to interest -- of
22 interest to us . And I ' ll touch on that a little bit later.
23 I ' d like to -- there were a couple of letters mentioned
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
73
1 earlier by - - and possibly even on the record, by your planner, Mr.
2 Gathman -- I don ' t know if that ' s the pronunciation.
3 But I wanted to make sure that all of the letters and
4 correspondence that we 've -- that we 've been sending back and forth
5 have made it here .
6 We sent the firm of Wellborn Sullivan Mack and Tooley
7 sent two letters on July 9th, 2001 , and I don ' t mean that we need
8 to go diving for the letters right now. I ' ll try to summarize
9 what our concerns are, but I would hope that they have been made
10 available .
11 On July 9th, Wellborn Sullivan firm sent two letters in.
12 Then there was a mention of a letter from the petitioner dated
13 September 7th. And the way it was characterized was that there had
14 been an adequate attempt to come to an agreement .
15 We would disagree with that . We don' t think that the --
16 the negotiations so far have been anywhere near adequate .
17 I did speak with Mr. Varra out in the hall a little
18 earlier and believe he indicated that he ' s willing to come back to
19 the negotiation table .
20 But the letter of September 7th basically says, "We
21 find - - we find your position offensive, and you ' re basically
22 acting under pretense and blocking us from the use of our surface. "
23 I would respond that the offer coming from the petitioner
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
74
1 was to purchase the coal, minerals, for $1 , 000 total . And I think
2 that , to put it in some perspective, I think that the folks that
3 are petitioning here would be equally concerned if my offer was
4 $1, 000 for the surface . It ' s just grossly under what the value
5 of the coal is .
6 After the letter from the applicant , to us, that
7 basically said that we were taking advantage of the process, we
8 have sent a couple of letters -- there was a - - actually there was
9 a September 28th letter sent by the Davis Graham and Stubbs firm,
10 for the (inaudible) -- excuse me -- the fellow representing the
11 company that just spoke .
12 And then there was an October 17th letter, also from
13 the Davis Graham and Stubbs firm trying to -- trying to, also,
14 establish why you need to come back to the negotiation table on the
15 oil and gas side of the spectrum.
16 And then there are two letters, October 22nd, from the
17 Wellborn Sullivan firm, that we have submitted as to why we think
18 the negotiations have not been enough.
19 We are basically seeking a couple of things . We are
20 seeking, first of all , an agreement pertaining to the disposition
21 of the hard rock minerals, including the coal . We don' t believe
22 that a $1 , 000 offer for the tonnage of coal that we ' re talking
23 about is adequate .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.HOCC - Varra Permit 1341
75
1 I believe that the comment earlier was that a geologist
2 and attorney had made the comment that this particular coal was --
3 was -- I think the comment was, "unproducable . " We disagree .
4 Six months ago -- we are one of the largest mineral
5 owners in Colorado, Wyoming and Utah. Six months ago there were - -
6 we had no indications that companies were thinking about opening up
7 new coal mines .
8 In the last three months, we have had seven companies
9 approach us, and we are in active negotiations with seven
10 companies, that are looking at opening -- opening new coal mines
11 in seams similar to this, not too far from here, a couple of them,
12 that they believe they can produce at a good profit .
13 So we -- we don' t buy that . We think that there ' s coal
14 here. It ' s been -- historically, the seam has been produced. It ' s
15 a good quality. We have some geologic data on it, and we believe
16 it ' s a real property right with some real value to it .
17 We ' d like to ask -- we also need to get a compatible
18 surface use agreement for the present and future coal and gas
19 interest . I 'm just going to point here -- I know you can' t see
20 where my finger is pointing, but -- but it ' s not just location of
21 possible drill -- drill paths .
22 It ' s also -- we ' re going to have a stockpile here . We ' re
23 going to have a railroad track going around the sides .
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
76
1 If we drill here, or across the border into some other
2 person' s property, and we need to get the access of a pipeline up
3 to those facilities, we ' re going to - - it ' s possible that one, two
4 sets of rail tracks would have to be either drilled under, or
5 removed and then replaced for a short distance, and how are we
6 going to handle the stockpile? I suspect that the stockpile is
7 going to be rather large .
8 Whose expense is it going to be to put those lines in. I
9 mean, the agreement that ' s in place covers the well that is on
10 the ground.
11 It contemplates other well sites, but it -- it was
12 arrived at in 1990, when the use of the property was farming, and
13 there wasn' t going to be this large expense at some future date, if
14 we needed to get facilities up to the - - up to the production
15 facilities that we have .
16 So I would submit to you that the 1990 surface use
17 agreement is inadequate for what we ' re doing. And therefore, we ' d
18 ask one of two things .
19 We ' d either ask that the commission not grant, at this
20 time, this particular application. Or if the commission is inclined
21 to grant it, we 'd ask the commission to grant it with the condition
22 saying that a group of us need to negotiate in good faith.
23 We 've negotiated a lot of these agreements . We have --
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
77
1 the group just before us was a group that we negotiated with. We
2 have full time people that are working with this kind of issue on a
3 regular basis .
4 We approached this seriously. We approached it in good
5 faith. But we 've -- we ' re in a position where, for over 100 years,
6 we 've maintained our mineral interest , we 've paid taxes on our
7 mineral interest, we 've sunk exploration dollars into the mineral
8 estate. We need to make sure that before putting things on the
9 ground, that we know who ' s going to cover what costs, and that ' s
10 what we ' re asking for.
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Are there any questions?
12 Counsel , the mining of coal would require USR' s, isn ' t that
13 correct? Just as you would mining gravel? I mean, it ' s not as if
14 it ' s just a carte blanche right .
15 MR. BARKER: I think it would. I need to double check
16 that, but I 'm pretty certain that it would.
17 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Just a curious question based upon one
18 statement you made .
19 MR. SCHINDLER: Okay.
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Thank you, sir.
21 MR. SCHINDLER: Thank you.
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Is there anyone else in the audience
23 that wishes to address the board? If so -- yes . If you'd just
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.eOCC - Varra Permit 1341
78
1 please come forth and give your name and address for the reocrd.
2 MR. BRUGGER: My name is Charles Brugger. I live at 885
3 Weld County Road 11, in Erie, Colorado.
4 I 've got just one -- one concern. Is there -- is there
5 any funds set aside to clean up this mess? I know in the area,
6 there ' s been a lot of messes made, and I just got done cleaning up
7 one of them. A dog rescue. I 'm just wondering if there ' s funds
8 available to clean it up, if this venture fails or if something --
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Counsel , could you address that, please .
10 MR. BARKER: No. I think it ' s part of the funds --
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Please - - please stay up and we ' ll --
12 MR. BARKER: The funds that are available to the county
13 would include, if there were any environmental issues that are
14 necessary for clean up. You have the fund that is created by the
15 tipping fees that I think has been used in certain circumstances
16 for the purpose of clean ups .
17 It ' s limited, however. The majority of funds, for
18 anything like that, it would have to qualify under either the state
19 health department, any funds that they may have available, or the
20 federal government . So I think the answer to that question is,
21 there may be, but there may not be, too.
22 It ' s something that would have to be applied for by any
23 interested parties, and/or the county government to do that .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
79
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE: How about a performance bond?
2 MR. BARKER: You could do a performance bond on a clean
3 up . I 'm not certain if we 've ever required that, however. In
4 fact , I don' t think that we ever have, on the part of a sand and
5 gravel batch plant operator, to that extent . I mean, I can' t even
6 think of one that we 've done where we 've had a performance bond.
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Good question.
8 MR. BRUGGER: Okay.
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Thank you, sir.
10 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Could I follow up?
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Commissioner Jerke.
12 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Does this kind of a property come
13 under mine land regs? I would guess not .
14 MR. BARKER: I believe that it does, and I -- they' re
15 shaking their heads no. You might ask the applicant if they've had
16 to apply for that, any sort of a permit --
17 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Counsel , even though we ' re about -- you
18 know, we ' re getting to a point at the end, I ' d like to take a five
19 minute recess, if we could. Just a five minute break to get some
20 fresh air. I don' t know about you, but there ' s no air in here .
21 How about the rest of you? Is it kind of airless?
22 [Recorder turned off . Recorder turned on. ]
23 CHAIRMAN GEILE: . . .Board of County Commissioners . Is
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
80
1 there anyone else in the audience who wishes to speak to this
2 application this morning? If not, I will close the public hearing
3 and invite the applicant back to the podium to make any closing
4 comment you wish to make.
5 MR. VARRA: I 'm Chris Varra. I 'm back --
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Thank you.
7 MR. VARRA: - - to the podium. Any closing -- a couple of
8 things came up.
9 Oil and gas and coal , I think, by being fair with one
10 another, accommodation. I really don ' t have a - - I worked with the
11 Oil and Gas Commission and the Oil and Gas Producers, Amoco, H. S .
12 Resources, now Kerr-McGee, and, I mean, a lot of the same faces are
13 still there .
14 But thirty years ago, and today, it ' s a whole different
15 story. We have a section of land that we have totally under permit
16 in the Del Camino area. The oil companies came in, set up a
17 complete drilling operation on that property, conserved and saved
18 approximately a million, million and a half tons of gravel .
19 Mineral extraction overlay is kind of protected in Weld
20 County. The oil producer on that property did an absolutely
21 wonderful job of conserving all the gravel he could.
22 He was, in turn, able to -- as a royalty checks, I see
23 ' em - - I 'm not part of the ownership of that, but the royalty
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
81
1 checks within that area have been phenomenal compared to some of
2 the ones I 've seen in other areas . I think accommodation by both
3 parties can go a long ways .
4 The other concern, our neighbors that were up the street
5 from where we ' re at, are asking about bonding. And we do bond our
6 gravel pit and our gravel pit operations in mining.
7 We do have numerous properties all around Colorado.
8 And I don' t think we ' re gonna let anyone down in any way, shape
9 or form.
10 And if anything, we want our properties to look good.
11 We 've invested in fences .
12 We do have a couple of bone yards in our gravel mining
13 operations . But those bone yards seem to be dollars that we 've
14 conserved and saved to use at a later date, and those things we 've
15 saved. So if there ' s trash, or if they' re junk iron, we send them
16 to the dumps .
17 So far as bonding, that ' s something that -- we have an
18 awful lot of properties . We do bond gravel . And I wouldn' t see
19 any need for it here . I think we ' re -- we 've been established and
20 been a part of Weld County a long time .
21 CHAIRMAN GEILE : The other question that came up, Mr.
22 Varra, would you be willing to do kind of a self-inflicted, I guess
23 is the best way to put it, speed control --
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
82
1 MR. VARRA: Yes, sir.
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE: -- program, like 35 or 40 miles an hour
3 just to protect the interest of the people? And you' d --
4 MR. VARRA: Yes, sir. Self controlled companywise, but
5 you want the public to still have 55 miles an hour?
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Well, that ' s a good question, ' cause
7 everybody will be passing you.
8 MR. VARRA: I --
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : But the point of it is, you have the
10 large trucks going down an area . Would you be willing to do that?
11 MR. VARRA: Really, the large trucks should be going
12 slower than the traveling public . That ' s my opinion.
13 Yes, we do have a safety officer, and I will address that
14 with the City of Broomfield, and put it in our agreement . I don' t
15 have a single problem with that .
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Yeah, because we have no jurisdiction on
17 the road. But if that ' s something -- okay.
18 I just had one other question. There 've -- we 've had
19 these situations come before the board in the past . On a couple of
20 occasions, or at least one occasion, two occasions, we 've asked the
21 parties, we would continue the proceedings for a week, or a week
22 and a half, to allow the parties to sit down and come to agreement,
23 so that we can have a clean case, rather than have all kinds of
L-MAC R E T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.H000 - Varra Permit 1341
83
1 issues associated.
2 Perhaps development standards, conditions of approval as
3 a part of the case . In other words, to clean it up, and allow --
4 by allowing the parties to get together, and come to resolution, or
5 whatever issues they can come to . And then of course, at that
6 time, we would reconvene and make a final -- a final determination.
7 And I don' t know whether the board, the rest of the board
8 feels about this, but is that something that you would consider?
9 MR. VARRA: So far as resolving like Broomfield, oil and
10 gas, and - - really -- what else do we have out?
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : I think what it does, it motivates both
12 parties to come to resolution, so that we don' t have to do the
13 resolution, do the resolving, I mean. Do any of the board have any
14 comments? Maybe that --
15 MR. VARRA: I know what the oil and gas company said. I
16 believe we have a surface owner' s agreement . And by law, that has
17 to be filed in the deeds . They had another act that passed here in
18 the last year, year and a half, where they protected themselves .
19 I 've been in general agreement with everything that
20 they've done . I don' t think I was in disagreement at all .
21 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Vaad.
22 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr. Varra, would that agreement,
23 then, that they filed, would that cover things like -- we were just
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
84
1 told about how did they get their pipes from the well , wherever
2 they drill it, to their storage tank, they said, under your
3 stockpile or under your rail line, would that be, in your estimate,
4 part of the agreement they' re going to file?
5 MR. VARRA: I think the words, when I said accommodate
6 within parcels, no matter what parcel it may be . It might be a
7 major irrigation lateral , like Bull Canal, like the rail spur going
8 around through there .
9 The oil companies, gas companies, should take whatever
10 easements are within that parcel already, and conserve that
11 property that ' s there . And as long as they do that, I think
12 everything ' s fine .
13 I think just shooting out across a piece of property and
14 putting out a gas line out across, even in the middle of a farm, is
15 reckless abandonment with our agricultural land.
16 Because they ought to follow, instead of a straight line
17 so they save a few dollars, they ought to follow the existing
18 easements, or laterals, or ditches that are there, to conserve
19 every bit of land that there is .
20 I 'm pretty much in agreement . I mean, for them to drill
21 under, and do a lot of things - - we ' re in a two to five year
22 program. I mean, they might want to agree today, and then it might
23 be ten years before they drill, and then our rail is in there .
L-MAC R fi T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
85
1 Uh-uh. I don' t know.
2 If they were in there tomorrow and drilled those wells,
3 they might not have any of those problems . We don' t know what
4 they' re going to do, and they, I guess -- I 'm trying to lay out , at
5 least, a formula where we ' re at today.
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Commissioner Vaad.
7 COMMISSIONER VAAD: If I might continue on a different
8 issue . Mr. Varra, when you made your initial presentation to us,
9 you spoke of the haul route being out to Road 11, and then north to
10 6th, and then over to the frontage road; isn' t that correct?
11 MR. VARRA: And south.
12 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Oh, and south?
13 MR. VARRA: Yes . We --
14 COMMISSIONER VAAD : ' Cause I just kept hearing north.
15 MR. VARRA: We -- what we did, we hired Carter Burgess,
16 who ' s a traffic engineer, and they did a traffic study for us . And
17 we told them -- we asked them to take a complete radius of, say, 10
18 to 15 miles around us . And preliminary layout, our traffic, and
19 what will happen with the concrete plant . And here ' s our typical
20 Fort Lupton operations .
21 So they took a Fort Lupton operations and overlaid it
22 into that area, based upon building permits and commercial
23 buildings, highway work, everything around that, that they could
L-MAC R 5 T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
86
1 formulate into that traffic plan.
2 COMMISSIONER VAAD : So when you talked about potentially
3 paving, that was only north to 6th, right?
4 MR. VARRA: If it became such an impact -- yes, and I
5 discussed it with Broomfield. I said, "If it becomes such a
6 problem that if we are having so many problems till that
7 infrastructure is built, we will probably end up paving out to
8 Road 6, and running Road 11 to Road 6, and west to the frontage,
9 and circulate our distribution that way, unless it ' s internally
10 east or south -- or north, pardon me .
11 COMMISSIONER VAAD: That would be quite an investment if
12 some of the half, or something, was still gonna go south, if you
13 paved north. I guess that ' s where I got the impression that you
14 were really thinking that you would haul north.
15 MR. VARRA: Umm, their -- their plan shows the bulk of
16 the traffic will go south, is what it shows . We -- we can work
17 with whatever happens .
18 I mean, we have neighbors, and we have had for 30 years
19 out here . And we 've worked with the community around us .
20 We 've run into a couple of problems, but overall --
21 usually you can solve those problems right there in the field, if
22 everyone ' s willing to work together.
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. And then just -- if I may,
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
87
1 Mr. Chairman.
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Commissioner Vaad.
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD : -- to follow -- to make sure I
4 understand, when we were talking variously the $1, 000 and the
5 $10, 000 with the RME Corporation, vis-a-vis the coal , with - - my --
6 I thought I was my understanding that was for the disruption of the
7 surface to get to the coal , and not for the value of the coal .
8 Talking it over with counsel , he had another impression
9 that that was for the resource, for the coal itself . What ' s your
10 understanding on that?
11 MR. VARRA: My understanding was, for $10, 000, they would
12 release those coal rights back. Now, he came out and he said
13 methane gases, and stuff, and probably can still get those from the
14 surface . But the $10 , 000 was to buy the coal rights that were
15 underneath that piece of property.
16 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Well , I guess it ' s too late to ask
17 Mr. Seidler, but I mean, I heard a million tons . That must be for
18 a lot more than what ' s under this property.
19 MR. VARRA: I think he mentioned the whole section.
20 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Oh, okay.
21 MR. VARRA: But your rail would have to go. Everything
22 would have to go. I would assume -- yes, and I mean we could even
23 have -- maybe there ' s a new way of mining -- I don' t know of any.
L-MAC R & T (303)998-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
88
1 But to go even underground, take that coal, the
2 subsidence, and everything, I think they' re a little bit worried
3 about that . We ' re sitting on a mobile plant, and I said, if you do
4 go down there and get that coal , maybe we can accommodate in
5 advance and maybe create another concrete apron where we move the
6 plant from this location to this location, and accommodate even the
7 coal mining.
8 COMMISSIONER VAAD : And then -- I think the chairman will
9 offer you an opportunity to see if you agree, but when we were
10 talking about the hours of operation earlier, you agreed that - - or
11 you understand that our code, 23-4-290 says daylight hours, with
12 specified exceptions, such as you need to work 24 hours to get a
13 major pour or something done .
14 And additionally, that you would agree to notify us when
15 you were gonna have to use those excpetions, or notify Planning
16 Services?
17 MR. VARRA: Yes, sir.
18 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Are there any other questions of the
20 applicant? Counsel , would you have any comments?
21 MR. BARKER: Mr. Chairman, actually that standard says
22 "emergency. " It doesn' t provide for -- and I suppose it depends
23 upon how the board would consider an emergency, but that ' s what
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
89
1 it refers to . It doesn' t allow for if the company chooses to
2 negotiate a contract where they' re gonna have to work 24 hours
3 a day.
4 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I guess, just to respond, I guess I
5 was being a little more -- I don' t know if the word is "generous"
6 in the interpretation of that .
7 But I know, like he mentioned, a pour that had to be
8 done, completed, had to be done contiguously, would take 24 hours,
9 even though they might have known that ahead of time and bid on
10 that basis . I think that was - - I guess the word is an exigency
11 that the government forced on them, and I would think that would be
12 an emergency, is my thinking?
13 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Does anybody else have any -- well,
14 we ' ll deal with it in discussion. Is there any other comments?
15 MR. GATHMAN: Perhaps I can -- sorry to interrupt .
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Mr. Varra . I 'm sorry.
17 MR. GATHMAN: Chris Gathman, Planning Services . Can I
18 maybe elaborate a little on the hours of operation, ' cause I know
19 the standard reads, you know, in case of emergency.
20 But actually for -- I know for government projects, for a
21 temporary period of time, actually asphalt and con- -- batch plants
22 are a use by right in the agricultural zoned districts .
23 I don' t know if that -- maybe that could be considered as
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
90
1 somewhat, you know, an exception to this . Maybe then it would fall
2 under that . I guess that ' s more for the attorney, but the --
3 MR. BARKER: Well, the board is the one to interpret
4 what that means, and you would interpret it , if there was ever a
5 question as to whether they' re complying with one of the standards .
6 You 've done that in the past, where it ' s brought you under a
7 probably cause hearing, and another, you know, final hearing, to
8 determine if they in fact violated the terms of the board, and/or
9 use by special review.
10 So you' d be the ones determining if that in fact is
11 considered to be a public or private emergency. And if that -- you
12 know, if that ' s your interpretation at this point -- I mean, making
13 a record of that here, and that ' s - - you know, could be done - - you
14 could go back to that time, if it ever comes up in the future .
15 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Commissioner, did you want to deal
16 with -- well , we ' ll deal with it in a little bit .
17 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Okay.
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Thank you, Mr. Varra. That concludes
19 our hearing, so I ' ll bring it back to the staff . Are there any
20 other comments? Char, did you have any comments you wish to make?
21 MS . DAVIS : No, just what I had mentioned earlier.
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Chris, do you have any additional
23 comments?
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
91
1
MR. GATHMAN: No. Just a couple things, I guess, just
2 to elaborate a little bit on the rail . I have spoken to some
3 representatives of Union Pacific, and I guess as far as the rail
4 aspect of this , I guess it ' s kind of a -- who knows if it ' s going
5 to happen in the future or not .
6 It may very well , but there ' s also some discussion about
7 potential passenger rail service in that area as well . So in the
8 future, I don' t know if that ' s going to happen. It may just end up
9 being a - -
10
CHAIRMAN GEILE: But the application provides them the
11 right or the opportunity to -- okay.
12 MR. GATHMAN: Correct . Correct .
13 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Is there any other comment?
14 MR. GATHMAN: No.
15
CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Drew?
16 MR. SCHELTINGA: No, sir.
17
CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. I ' ll bring it back to the board
18 for discussion. Commissioner Vaad.
19
COMMISSIONER VAAD: Well , Mr. Chairman, if you would
20 allow, I think it might be orderly if I offered an amendment
21 dealing with the hours of operation. If you' ll accept that, I ' ll
22 be happy to --
23 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Sure . That would be under --
L-MAC R fi T (303)998-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
92
1 COMMISSIONER VAAD: -- do that?
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE : -- number 22? No, whoop, whoop, whoops .
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Number 23 .
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE: 23 .
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I would move to add to Development
6 Standard No. 23 , after making the correction that it ' s actually
7 the reference to the Weld County Code is 23 , then the second case,
8 23-4-290, that the interpretation of emergency, as specified by --
9 was it " . . .government, and/or. . . " something else - - public or
10 private emergency -- that a public or private emergency would
11 include specifications with a government entity that would cause
12 the need for round the clock, for a limited period of time, of the
13 production of the product .
14 And then if I could just explain. If they are having a
15 24-hour bridge pour, or a pavement project that needed to go past
16 the hours of daylight, in order to accommodate the public ' s needs,
17 that that would be considered, for the purpose of definition in
18 this part, an emergency requested by public or government agency.
19 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Second.
20 CHAIRMAN GEILE : It ' s been moved by Commissioner Vaad,
21 second by Jerke, that that amendment which clarifies the situation
22 to 23 -- and while we ' re at it, it would be 23-4-290 , instead of
23 2-290 --
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
93
1 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yes .
2 CHAIRMAN GEILE : -- so that would be the other one . And
3 then the interpretation of emergency.
4 Does everybody have an understanding of that? Any
5 discussion? If not, all in favor, signify by saying "Aye . "
6 COMMISSIONERS : Aye .
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Opposed, same motion. Carried. So that
8 clarifies 23 .
9 Let me tell you what else I think we have in this, in
10 addition to all of the updates that staff has provided in the
11 resolution.
12 On page 3 , where we had one, that " . . . add 30 days, " I
13 think we ought to put that to 60 days . That was the recommendation
14 that was put forth.
15 On page 5, to scratch "F" , and number accordingly.
16 Re-number accordingly.
17 On page 6, and -- to leave " . . . into the east" in there,
18 but not make any changes . Isn' t that correct, Commissioner? That
19 was your interpretation. Is there any other interpretation,
20 Commissioner Jerke?
21 COMMISSIONER JERKE : I didn' t hear your interpretation.
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Just to leave it the way it is .
23 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Oh. Strike " . . . into the east"?
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.B000 - Varra Permit 1341
94
1 CHAIRMAN GEILE : No, to leave it .
2 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Just to leave it like it is .
3 CHAIRMAN GEILE : But they had an interpretation of their
4 landscape plan, which they passed around, which more or less dealt
5 with that . Isn' t that correct, Commissioner?
6 COMMISSIONER JERKE : This is the corrected version,
7 right?
8 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Yeah, this would be the corrected
9 version.
10 COMMISSIONER JERKE : Okay.
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : There was some question about that, but
12 I think that was resolved. I just wanted to make sure that it was .
13 And then as we get to, or have gotten to, 23 , we 've
14 already dealt with that . That ' s all I had. Commissioner Vaad.
15 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Well , and then I guess the final
16 thing -- I don' t know -- Chris, you can tell me whether it would be
17 a condition of approval or a development standard, that the
18 applicant and the representatives from the owners of the coal would
19 come to an agreement, or give you a letter evidencing that there
20 was that agreement, before what point? The filing of the final
21 plat, or --
22 MR. GATHMAN: I guess it would be up to you, as the
23 board, if you wanted it final to recording the plat . You can go
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
95
1 ahead and make a motion on it, or if you --
2 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Well, if I --
3 MR. GATHMAN: -- might want it brought back before
4 the board.
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: If I might, Mr. Chairman. Let me
6 kind of dialogue a little bit, and then you can tell me . I 'm not
7 interested in another 75 days passing, before we have an agreement,
8 and that ' s -- that was my account from August 10th to today.
9 I 'm not totally unwilling to share with my colleagues the
10 responsibility of deciding if good faith efforts were made or not,
11 to come to a resolution. But I think - - we 've heard from the
12 applicant a deisre and -- or an opinion that he thinks this can be
13 worked out .
14 And I 'm not speaking to the oil and gas, ' cause it sounds
15 like -- and I ' ll bow to Commissioner Masden -- if this filing of
16 the plan can specify this successfully, so that would be taken
17 care of .
18 But as far as the coal , and wether or not we can get to
19 the coal, or the owners can get to the coal , that that agreement
20 be worked out by some part -- by some time . And that ' s what I 'm
21 asking for. What time is that? Given the -- I don' t want to
22 see another 75 days go by, but -- so at what point should we ask
23 for it?
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.POCC - Varra Permit 1341
96
1 MR. GATHMAN: I believe in the past we 've looked at, at
2 least -- what? No more than 30 days? I think there have been some
3 previous cases where that was the time frame .
4 COMMISSIONER VAAD : So then, again, the question - -
5 repeat the question, would that be a condition of approval or a
6 development standard?
7 MR. GATHMAN: That would be a condition of approval .
8 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. Could you suggest some
9 language?
10 MR. GATHMAN: Okay.
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Why don' t we work on that , Commissioner?
12 COMMISSIONER VAAD : Okay.
13 CHAIRMAN GEILE : I know that Commissioner Jerke has
14 some comments .
15 COMMISSIONER JERKS : Well , just had a comment on that,
16 and then I want to comment overall before we vote . I guess
17 with respect to that, I just want to make sure it ' s not a truer
18 condition that has to be met that gives veto power over another
19 party. I think all we can really do is just ask them to go and
20 negotiate in good faith.
21 But there ' s no way on God' s green earth that I 'd want to
22 give them veto power --
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Right .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
97
1 COMMISSIONER JERKE : - - over not -- whether or not, with
2 respect to everything else that we 've worked on and would vote on,
3 would actually come to pass .
4 MR. BARKER: May I make a suggestion? You know, I sort
5 of see a difference in those instances in which you' re approving,
6 like, a subdivision or something, where you ' re going to have lots
7 of individuals and houses built on those lots . Once they' re built ,
8 it ' s awfully hard to go back in and try to figure out where the
9 mineral development is going to occur.
10 I see a difference between that and this situation, in
11 that here you don' t have the same thing. You don' t have the
12 building of buildings and the selling off of parts of the property
13 to individuals who may not be aware of the fact that that
14 development is a right by state law.
15 So maybe the idea is not that -- you know, I sort of
16 sense that on both sides, there ' s a tendency to use this condition
17 as something that they hold over the head of the other party, and
18 they' re putting a board in the middle .
19 Maybe it ' s there, in this situation, where you ' re not
20 having to deal with people who are buying lots, where you would say
21 this : "Be it further resolved that the granting of this application
22 as stated herein, does not conclude the right of the owners of the
23 subsurface minerals, such as coal, oil and gas, to develop such
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
98
1 minerals, and the obligation of the applicant to reasonably
2 accommodate such development in accordance with state and/or
3 federal law. "
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Where is that, Bruce? Where ' d you get
5 that?
6 MR. BARKER: You' d add that as another " . . .be it further
7 resolved" paragraph.
8 CHAIRMAN GEILE: All right . But where did you get it?
9 Where ' d you get it?
10 MR. BARKER: I just wrote it . I just made it up.
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : It sounded like something that came from
12 the Supreme Court .
13 MR. BARKER: Wow. Great . But yes, the type of thing
14 where it ' s an acknowledgement that in fact you' re granting, that it
15 doesn' t screw up those rights .
16 And I don' t think it precludes -- it doesn' t get you in a
17 position where you've granted something, where people are unaware
18 that that ' s happening, you know, like a subdivision. This is a
19 different situation.
20 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So you were suggesting, that in lieu
21 of another condition of approval or a developement standard, that
22 we add a paragraph in the "whereas" portion of the resolution that
23 says that?
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
99
1 MR. BARKER: Correct .
2 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I think that has the effect that I
3 want, and accommdates Commissioner Jerke that we ' re not giving a
4 veto power, nor was that my intention, but I appreciate you
5 bringing that up.
6 COMMISSIONER JERKE: I totally agree . That ' s --
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Plus, I think it ' ll set a precedent in
8 hearing other cases that we have these same type of issues coming
9 before us . I like that . Commissioner Masden?
10 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Yes . I totally agree with that .
11 And I don' t think that ' s something that we should delve into.
12 That ' s not our jurisdiction. So --
13 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Well , according to the latest statutes,
14 as I understand them, counsel , our obligation is to notify -- well,
15 I don ' t know if it is an obligation but we have -- I guess it is an
16 obligation to notify all parties, including mineral hold- -- to
17 make sure that they' re notified, mineral holders -- owners, and
18 others, that kind of thing associated with properties; isn' t
19 that correct?
20 MR. BARKER: It is . And I guess I would still say
21 you may want have more open for conditions, as suggested by
22 Commissioner Vaad, in those situations where you have
23 subdivisions .
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra permit 1341
100
1 And again, it ' s -- properties are going to be after the
2 approval by the county commissioners, can be sold off in parcels to
3 unsuspecting people that may wind up, if it ' s not taken care of,
4 with having last place to develop minerals is on the lot they just
5 purchased, and they' re stuck with it .
6 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Sure . Okay. Are there any other --
7 excuse me . Commissioner Vaad.
8 COMMISSIONER VAAD: One final question, as regards the
9 dust on Weld County Road 11 . I thought I had seen it, but where is
10 the requirement, either a condition of approval or a development
11 standard, that, before this is approved, we have the completed
12 roadway maintenance agreement with Broomfield, or that we have a
13 copy of their agreement?
14 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Isn' t it "B" on page 5?
15 MR. GATHMAN: On page 4 , actually - - well , yeah --
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE : It ' s supported on page 5 .
17 MR. GATHMAN: -- on page 4 of that corrected draft . And
18 that -- I guess it kind of includes everybody, but I guess they' re
19 basically going to be dealing with the City of Broomfield.
20 "The applicant shall submit copies of signed improvements
21 agreement, City of Broomfield, for the upgrading, paving or
22 maintenance of roads associated with the operation, in the
23 inditional (sic) -- intersection improvements associated with the
L-MAC A & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
101
1 heavy hauling that may be identified with the operation, or submit
2 evidence from the City of Broomfield that its road concerns have
3 been adequately addressed. "
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And the only other thing that I can
6 think of right now that we haven ' t addressed in a definitive way is
7 the speed of the trucks on Road 11, going south.
8 And I feel kind of stuck, because that won' t be under our
9 authority. It ' s under Broomfield.
10 MR. GATHMAN: Do you want to maybe --
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE : I guess, Commissioner, my feeling on
12 that is that Mr. Varra has made that statement in the record, and
13 I would go along with his reputation, as to making sure that that
14 happens, when he works out that agreement with Broomfield. That
15 was an --
16 COMMISSIONER JERKE : I totally agree .
17 CHAIRMAN GEILE : -- ongoing understanding.
18 COMMISSIONER JERKE: He made that -- he made that
19 statement and I feel that as a neighbor and businessman, he would
20 do that .
21 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay.
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Are there any other comments? Mr.
23 Varra, would you please come back to the podium for just a moment .
L-MAC A & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
102
1 You 've had an opportunity to read all of the development
2 standards, and conditions of approval as --
3 MR. VARRA: Yes .
4 CHAIRMAN GEILE : -- amended and as we 've just discussed.
5 Do you have any -- do you concur with them as presented?
6 MR. VARRA: I 'm very comfortable with all of it .
7 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. Thank you very much, sir.
8 MR. VARRA: Thank you.
9 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Okay. I ' ll bring it back for further
10 discussion and a motion. Commissioner Vaad.
11 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I ' ll try it . Everybody' s laughing
12 already.
13 I would move the approval of the site specific
14 development plan and use by Special Review, Permit 1341, for an
15 asphalt and concrete batch plant, asphalt and/or major concrete,
16 and/or concrete recycling sand and gravel processing materials,
17 equipment storage, and commercial office in the A (Agricultural)
18 Zone, Pasquale and Jacqueline Varra, with the addition, in the
19 "whereas" section of the resolution, if it ' s appropriate, under
20 2-H, SVRA, of the addition in the "whereas" that you suggested.
21 MR. BARKER: Actually, what I was suggesting was it be at
22 the very end of the "Be it further resolved. . . " paragraph.
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. So with the addition of the
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
103
1 further resolved paragraph, after 2-G. And - - did you have another
2 place, Esther?
3 MS . GESICK: Right before the (inaudible) - -
4 MR. BARKER: Correct . Right before the (inaudible) --
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Oh, it would be before the -- okay.
6 In the end, with the change in the "Now, therefore, be it
7 resolved. . . " paragraph 1, from 30 days to 60 days, with the
8 deletion of --
9 MR. BARKER: A condition of approval or development
10 standard.
11 COMMISSIONER VAAD: -- Development Standard F, and the
12 subsequent re-lettering of Development Standard 2-F, has already
13 been (inaudible) -- And with the addition to Development Standard
14 23 , as we had rehearsed a bit ago.
15 CHAIRMAN GEILE : The one correction on the code, 23-4 --
16 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And with that correction on
17 Development Standard 23 , where it now says 23-2-290, it should say
18 23-4-290 . And then the additional language that we included by
19 vote of the Board of County Commissioners . Hope that covered
20 them all .
21 CHAIRMAN GEILE : I think that got it all . To that motion
22 made by Commissioner Vaad, second by Commissioner Long, for
23 approval of -- excuse me -- Site Specific Development planning for
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
104
1 special Review Permit 1341, as amended -- as amended as stated by
2 Commissioner Vaad. Is there any further discussion. Commissioner
3 Jerke .
4 COMMISSIONER JERKE: I just want to say I 'm going to vote
5 for this . It looks like Mr. Varra ' s put together a good program on
6 it . I am impressed about and will say a couple things concerning
7 the mineral interests . I feel that it needs to be said, though.
8 [Cassette tape producing warped sound. ]
9 Concerning the coal interests, I think that you folks
10 probably need to (inaudible) into a coal mine, if you ' re going to
11 suggest that there ' s sincere (inaudible) with those .
12 Holding up land use on the surface for periods of time in
13 southwest Weld County, or any portion of Weld County, is going to
14 (inaudible) -- and you need to have a track record of actually
15 doing that . Being able to go in -- actually a track record of
16 actually having some coal mines in operation, again, to be able to
17 have an opportunity to say there ' s value in (inaudible) .
18 And with respect to the oil and gas interests, two and a
19 half months, you guys are going to be able to work this out , I 'm
20 sure . It ' s Mr. Varra ' s best interests to do that . You've worked
21 on it two and a half months, and have known about it that amount
22 of time .
23 And I 've got to tell you, coming from agricultural once
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
105
1 again, but I can ' t tell you the number of times I 've heard from
2 farmers and ranchers, basically (inaudible) here ' s the surface
3 agreement . Here ' s the deal, and you sign it, and that ' s all there
4 is to it, because you don' t have any other recourse to not have
5 that . (Inaudible) on this .
6 So now when I hear you guys are having a hard time, and
7 you want more time, I don' t have much sympathy. And so you need to
8 figure out a way to work with the (inaudible) on these, and the
9 shoe is (inaudible) on the other foot, in these situations which
10 appear to me to be in this situation.
11 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Okay. Are there any other comments by
12 the board. There is a motion and a second. Esther, would you take
13 roll call, please .
14 MS . GESICK: Before I do, (inaudible) kind of
15 clarification. Is the motion (inaudible) -- in the --
16 CHAIRMAN GEILE : Yes . This changes the --
17 MS . GESICK: It does . Okay.
18 CHAIRMAN GEILE: Yes .
19 MS . GESICK: On roll call . Robert Masden - aye; Dave
20 Long - aye; - Bill Jerke - aye; Glenn Vaad - aye; and Mike Geile -
21 aye .
22 CHAIRMAN GEILE : All right . That (inaudible) carried
23 unanimously. That concludes our land use hearings for today, so I
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
106
1 will adjourn the Board of County Commissioners .
2 [Conclusion of Site Specific Development Plan and Use by
3 Special Review Permit #1341 . ]
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
L-MAC R & T (303)798-0380 Weld Cty.BOCC - Varra Permit 1341
OMM
CERTIFICATE
STATE OF COLORADO )
ss
COUNTY OF ARAPAHOE )
I , Laura M. Machen, an independent transcriber and
notary public within and for the State of Colorado, certify
the foregoing transcript of the tape recorded proceedings,
In Re: Weld County Board of County Commissioners, October 24,
2001, Special Review Permit #1341 application, and as further set
forth on page one, is reduced to printed form by computer
transcription, and dependent upon recording clarity, is true
and accurate, with special exceptions of precise identification
of any or all speakers and/or correct spelling of any given or
spoken proper name or acronym.
Dated this 10th day of January, 2002 .
tr•
My commission expires May 23 , 2004 .
AOCORIGINAL
[ ] CERTIFIED COPY OF ORIGINAL
L-MAC R & T (303) 798-0380
Hello