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Home My WebLink About830576.tiff BEFORE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WELD COUNTY, COLORADO DOCKET NO. 82-77 IN RE: APPLICATION OF COLORADO LANDFILL, INCORPORATED FOR A USE BY SPECIAL REVIEW PERMIT AND CERTIFICATE OF DESIGNATION FOR A SANITARY LANDFILL IN THE "A" (AGRICULTURAL) ZONE DISTRICT HEARING CONDUCTED MAY 4, 1983 AT 2 : 00 P.M. TAPES 83-39 , 83-40, AND 83-41 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: CHUCK CARLSON, CHAIRMAN JOHN T. MARTIN, PRO TEM GENE R. BRANTNER NORMAN CARLSON JACQUELINE JOHNSON ALSO PRESENT: APPLICANTS APPEARING PRO SE R. RUSSELL ANSON, ASSISTANT WELD COUNTY ATTORNEY LEE MORRISON, ASSISTANT WELD COUNTY ATTORNEY TOMMIE ANTUNA, ACTING CLERK TO THE BOARD ROD ALLISON, CURRENT PLANNER, REPRESENTING THE WELD COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING SERVICES PL0415 830576 -2- CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON : Next item on our agenda is appli- cation for Colorado Landfill, Incorporated, Use by Special Review Number 534: 82 : 49. MR. ANSON: Okay, this is, ah, Docket Number 82-77, which is an application from Colorado Landfill , Inc. , P.O. Box 3415 , Greeley, Colorado for Use by Special Review for a Sanitary Land- fill and for a Certificate of Designation for a Sanitary Landfill on a parcel of land described as a part of the East half of the Northeast quarter of Section 29 , Township 1 North, Range 68 West of the 6th P.M. , Weld County, Colorado. Notice of this hearing has been published on February 3, 1983, in the LaSalle Leader. There are, ah, since the inter, there are two parts of the appli- cation. One is for the, ah, Use by Special Review, and one for the Certi, Certificate of Designation. The Use by Special Review, under the Zoning Ordinance, has the following requirements : the applicant is required to demonstrate, first of all, that the pro- posal is consistent with the Weld County Comprehensive Plan; that the proposal is consistent with the intent of the district in which the use is located; and that the uses which would be permitted will be compatible with the existing surrounding land uses; that the uses which would be permitted will be compatible with the future development of the surrounding area as permitted by the existing zone and with future development as projected by the Comprehensive Plan of the County or the adopted Master Plans of affected munici- palities; that if the use is proposed to be located in the "A" District, that the applicant has demonstrated a diligent effort has been made to conserve productive agricultural land in the -3- locational decision for the proposed use, and that there is ade- quate provision for the protection of the health, safety and welfare of the inhabitants in the neighborhood and the County. The further and additional requirement if, ah, depending on location, is that the uses which would, oh excuse me, that the application complies with the Weld County Zoning Ordinance, Section 50, which is the overlay district regulation. And that is if the proposal is lo- cated within any of the overlay district areas, identified by maps officially adopted by Weld County. • Now, in a Certificate of De, Designation, the ah, Colo- rado Statutes provide as follows; and this is under Section 30-20-104 , and, it states as follows: " . . . in considering an application for a Certificate of Designation the Board of County Commissioners shall take into account, (a) The effect that the solid waste dis- posal site and facility will have on the surrounding property, taking into consideration the types of processing to be used, sur- rounding property uses and values, and wind and climatic conditions. (b) The convenience and accessibility of the solid waste disposal site and facility to potential users. (c) The ability of the app- licant to comply with the health standards and operating procedures provided for in this partone, such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by the department. (d) Recommendations by the local Health Department. " Also in, in part three there ' s another re- quirement that the Board shall be satisfied that the proposed solid waste disposal site solely conforms to the Comprehensive County Land Use Plan. -4- MR. ALLISON: It was moved by Bob Ehrlich that the follow- ing Resolution be introduced for passage by the Weld County Planning Commission: "Be it resolved by the Weld County Planning Commission that the application for a Certificate of Designation and Use by Special Review for a Sanitary Landfill be recommended favorably to the Board of County Commissioners for the following reasons : 1) The submitted materials are in compliance with the application submittal requirements of the Weld County Zoning Ordinance. 2) It is the opinion of the Weld County Planning Commission that the applica, applic,,the applicant has shown compliance with the Weld County Zoning Ordinance as follows : the proposal is consistent with the Weld County Comprehensive Plan policies in that the use does not infringe on continued agricultural use in the vicinity or the County; the proposal is consistent with the intent of the Agricultural Zone District and is provided for as a Use by Special Review; the south half of the proposed Use by Special Review area exists in the Geological Hazard Overlay District. The applicants have indicated there are no plans for structures in the overlay district area; it is the opinion of the Planning Commission that the applicants have demonstrated that there is a need for the facil, for the facility within the proposed area of service. The subject site is an abandoned landfill with uncovered or exposed trash. The site was originally approved under Special Use Permit Case #87 :71: 3 in 1971. At the time the application was under review, reclamation activities were not required for this site. Approval of this request would allow land that has been designated as a -5- landfill to be efficiently used for this purpose and then properly reclaimed in accordance with State Reclamation Standards; the Colo- rado Department of Health has reviewed the request for a Use by Special Review and Certificate of Designation and finds that the facility will comply with the Stardards of the Solid Waste and Disposal Site and Facilities Act, Title 30-20, Part 1, of the Colorado Revised Statutes 1973, as amended; the Weld County Health Department has reviewed the request and recommends approval in a letter dated December 21, 1982 ; the location of the facility is convenient for potential uses , users and adequate access is pro- vided by Weld County Road 5 and 6; the applicant has demonstrated, in submitted application materials , the ability to comply with health standards and operating procedures pursuant to the Solid Waste Disposal Site and Facilities Act. Further, the applicant has been operating a similar facility, adjacent to this proposal, in compliance with State Rules and Regulations for two years. It is the opinion of the Planning Commission that the attached Development Standards will minimize impact, impacts on surrounding uses and the area to the greatest extent possible and provide adequate protection of the health, safety and welfare of the inhabitants of the area and the County. These determinations are based, in part, upon a review of the information submitted by the applicant, other relevant information regarding the request, and the responses of referral entities which have reviewed the, this request. The Planning Commission recommendation is conditional and based upon the following: 1) the attached Standards for Use -6- by Special Review be adopted; 2) the plat for the, the use permit be placed of record by the Department of Planning Services staff prior to any building permits being issued on the site. Use by Special Review Case Number 534 :82 : 49 Operations Standards: 1) the permitted uses shall be a sanitary landfill that shall accept nonhazardous residential and commercial refuse, con- struction .debris, and sludges whose solid contents are greater than twenty percent. No hazardous wastes , liquids, or sludges with solid contents less than twenty percent shall be accepted without County and Colorado State Health Department approval; 2) the operation shall comply with the Design Standards for Use, Uses by Special Review, Section 24 . 5 etcetera sequence of the Weld County Zoning Ordinance; 3) the operation shall comply with the Operation Standards for Uses by Special Review, Section 24 . 6 etcetera, sequence of the Weld County Zoning Ordinance; 4) a metal sign shall be posted at the cust, at the customer entrance way. The sign shall be a minimum of three feet in width and four feet in length. The Sign shall state: "Absolutely no hazardous or toxic wastes or liquids accepted. No sludges with solid contents less than twenty percent accepted" ; 5). groundwater quality shall be monitored by the applicant semi-annually from the six monitoring wells in accordance to the Standards outlined by the Colorado Department of Health; specifically page two, item seven; 6) prior to any construction, except monitor wells on the site, a fugitive emissions permit for the landfill development shall be obtained from the State Health Department' s Air Pollution Control Division. The applicant shall submit a copy of said permit to the Department of Planning Services; 7) solid wastes shall be placed first in -7- excavations then upward via the area fill method. The maximum ex, excavation depth shall be twenty feet, and no excavation shall be, shall proceed deeper than excavation fifty-two hundred feet. The bottom and side, sides of excavations shall be filled with one foot of clay whose recompacted permeability shall be verified to be less than one foot per year by the applicant; 8) leachate collection trenches shall be placed by the applicant west of the existing Landfill and tied into the clay liner at excavation grade. If leachate is collected in the trenches, the applicant shall analyze the leachate for parameters specified in the Develop- ment Standards outlined by the Colorado Department of Health; specifically page two, item seven. Final design plans for the leachate collection trenches shall be submitted to the Colorado State Health Department within one month after final approval by the Board of County Commissioners. Design approval and construc- tion of the leachate collection trench, trenches shall be completed within three months after final approval by the Board of County Commissioners; 9) surface water run-off will be diverted around the northern and eastern portions of the property. The diversion ditch designed in 1979 shall be extended eastward onto the Pratt property by the applicant before operations begin there; 10) the site shall be appropriately fenced to control scattering of wind-blown debris and confine all solid waste discharge to the site; 11) the applicant shall control wind-blown debris, odors, vectors and fire by the ongoing compaction of the working face and the prompt application of daily cover material on accepted -8- waste. The applicant shall police off-site areas for wind-blown debris, recover debris and return to the landfill; 12) water for dust control, fire protection and monitoring shall be available from the applicant' s own well at the adjacent landfill site. A dust abatement program shall be implemented to control dust on the Use by Special Review site and Weld County Road 6 . The appli- cant shall reapply for a well permit with the Division of Water Resources within thirty days after final proposal approval; 13) the site shall be closed by applying final cover to grades and elevations consistent with those proposed for the adjacent landfill. Top cover slopes shall be extremely gent, gentle, less than one percent, side cover slopes shall be no st, steeper than three to one, horizontal to vertical; 14) an area with high potential for subsidence exists near the southern boundary of the proposed site. The monitoring for that subsidence shall be part of the post closure program performed by the applicant; 15) at closure, the applicant shall install methane venting on two hundred feet centers in areas of the fill where its thickness is greater than ten feet; 16) within one month of final approval by the Board of County Commissioners the applicant shall sample and analyze groundwater from its monitor, monitoring wells at the combined sites to verify results of the analysis submitted to the State Health Department in February of 1982 . Groundwater quality shall be monitored semi-annually thereafter and results submitted to the County and State Health Departments . The applicant shall survey the exact elevation of monitor wells so that more accurate water level data -9- and drillhole cross sections can be prepared for future reports; 17) within six months of final approval by the Board of County Commissioners the applicant shall prepare a document describing additional plans for cover stabilization at closure for the Weld County and State Health Departments. A low maintenance native veg- etation shall be established based upon recommendations of the local soil conservation service. The document should specify cover soil suitability and fertilizer requirements; 18) prior to each phase of refuse place, placement at the facility, the applicant shall sub- mit documentation to the County and State Health Departments veri- fying that the clay liner has been placed in accordance with speci- fications contained in submitted application materials; 19) the owner-operator shall mon, shall monitor the combined sites final cover surface semi-annually and submit documentation to the Weld County and State Health Departments verifying condition for at least five years after closure. In the event that the subsidence occurs, the applicant shall reapply and grade the cover materials. Groundwater monitoring shall also continue for five, for the five-year period in accordance to the Operation Standards number five; 20) in the event that the owner or operator of the proposed landfill changes, a Use by Special Review Application and Cer- tificate of Designation shall be submitted by the new owner or operator. The new applica, the new application shall be con- sidered by the Weld County Planning Commission and Board of County Commissioners under existing Zoning Ordinance regulations, the Weld County Comprehensive Plan policies and the State Solid Waste Disposal Site and Facilities Regulations. -10- Further, Colorado Landfill, Inc. shall be responsible for conditions and standards associated with the Use by Special Review case number 534 : 82 : 49 until a new owner or operator receives final approval from the Weld County Board of County Commissioners in a public hear- ' ing to insure ability to comply with health standards and operating procedures pursuant to the Solid Waste Disposal Site and Facility, Facilities Act and all applicable Use by Special Review Conditions and Standards; 21) the Use by Special Review shall be limited to the plans shown hereon and governed by the Standards stated above and all applicable Weld County Regulations. Any material devia- tions from the plans and/or Standards as shown or stated above shall require the approval of an amendment of the permit by the Weld County Planning Commission and the Board of County Commissioners before such changes from the plans and/or standards are permitted. Any other changes shall be filed in the office of the Department of Planning Services; 22) the property owner and/or operator of this operation shall be responsible for complying with all the above stated standards. Noncompliance with any of the above stated standards may be reason for revocation of the Permit by the Board of County Commissioners. " The motion was seconded by Wilbur Wa£el. Vote for passage was unanimous and representatives of the applicant are here for presentation. Ah, I also should point out that, ah, you did receive, ah, packets , ah, on this case. However, there is a petition submitted by, ah, residents of Erie and surrounding land, landowners, that I don' t believe you did receive, and I ' ll pass that out to you and also there' s some letters from surround- ing, ah, residents objecting to this case, to this proposal . -11- BYRON KEIRNES : Mr. Chairman, excuse me, members of the Board, my name is Byron Keirnes, and I 'm part of the management, and, part of the owner, of Colorado Landfill, and I have a few brief comments and my brother, Brad Keirnes, will follow up with some slides. And as Rod mentioned, this is an abandoned landfill and what we propose to do is, ah, operate it for a relatively short period of time, somewhere between ten month, between ten months and eighteen months and properly close it. Ah, it was originally, ah, received a Certificate ;of Designation in 1971 , and it was operated as the solid waste disposal site in that area from 1971 until June 6 of 1979 , and at that point in time the Certificate was revoked. It' s been in its present state, as you' ll see from the slides, since really June 6th of 1979 . And, as mentioned, we own a site adjacent to this forty-acre site, and that site was certificated in December of 1979. Our present site is a hundred and sixty acres. We have, ah, somewhere between ten • and fifteen years of operations left on that site. The reason that we' re interested in this site, as I said, is that we 're adjoining landowners. We've worked since 1979 to. come up with a solution to try to close, properly close the site, and a number of alternatives have been explored. The best solution that has been brought forth to this point in time is to operate it as a landfill for this eighteen month period and generate sufficient revenues in order to, ah, apply the cover to properly close it. To this end, we've executed a lease agreement with the property owner, Mr. Pratt, and if this idea' s re-certificated, -12- if a new Certificate of Designation is granted, then we will take the responsibility to operate the site and properly close it. As part of this agreement we 've provided fencing which surrounds the area, that, that prevents unauthorized access. We've also leveled an area on the east side of the property which has been used to install a tank battery for an oil and gas well. The agreement also speaks that at the end of operations, we' ll apply the necessary cover as required by State regulations and the site will be re- turned to farmland or grassland which would be compatible with the surrounding area. The, the reason that, that the site needs to be closed, and, and the slides will point this out, is that in its pre- sent state it is environmentally unacceptable. There' s inadequate cover, and there' s improper drainage. And Brad will discuss that more. The reason that we think that our plan makes sense is that operations would commence immediately to close the site. And it' s a guaranteed way to close an abandoned landfill, through a relative short period of, of operations, somewhere around eighteen months. We feel that by proper closure of this landfill, it will enhance our present operations and remove some of the environmental risks associated with having an abandoned landfill adjacent to our landfill. Also, in the closure of a site it requires considerable expertise and equipment and we've proven the, our ability to operate sites in Weld County during the past four years through the operation of three sites presently and in addition to that, during that four- year period, we've closed two sites. Probably, the, the last point that I would like to make -13- is, that, ah we will be responsible to monitor the cover and monitor the site for a minimum of five years as required by State and local regulations. And Brad' s up next and he has few slides and we 'd be happy to answer any questions that you would have, at any time BRAD KEIRNES : I'm Brad Keirnes, with Colorado Landfill, and, as has been mentioned, one of the major things that are, is developed in submitting an application for a Certificate of Desig- nation is an Operations Plan, and we did so and our engineer, Vern Nelson, ah, prepared this plan with;the assistance of many independent geologic and hydrological consultants. Ah, the plan addresses all the technical issues as required by State Landfill Regulations, such as ah hydrologic engineering and operational data. Upon the completion of the plan, ah, it was submitted to the Colorado Department of Health for their review. And after a very extensive review they have recommended approval of the Certificate of Designation requested here today. Ah, as Byron mentioned, designation of this site, ah, the Pratt site, and its proper closure will benefit our existing operation, and this will be primarily due to the ability to better control surface water runoff, upgrading of our site on the Pratt site, and will also, ah, reduce the potential for the creation of leachate caused by un- controlled surface water penetrating impartial covered waste on the site, reaching the base of the fill and then flowing onto our pro- perty. And this top map illustrates that. (Brad Keirnes now at map. ) The brown area' s our existing site and this portion over here' s the Pratt site. This is looking north. Ah, this will show -14- the final contour of our site, and at the present, cons for topography of the Pratt site is something below this line, and sur- face water precip, in the form of precipitation is, ah, penetrat- ing the refuse, reaching the base of the fill and if the, if it is reaching as and does develop as leachate it flows onto our property, ah, the upgrading portion of our site. Also by placing the additional fill in this, on the Pratt site, noted here in the orange line, a uniform grade can be established to allow for better, ah, control of surface water, upgrading of our site. : (Brad Keirnes back to podium. ) I do have some slides now I 'd like to show of the Pratt site that illustrate its present condition. (Inaudible comments) CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: (inaudible) . . . stuck on the wall, and then we will BRAD KEIRNES : (Brad Keirnes showing slides. ) This first slide is looking east from our site onto the Pratt site, shows its relationship to our site and the, ah, present topography of the site. What we did was we started about midway in the picture, at the western boundary of the Pratt site and began walking eastward along the side and, ah, took pictures at about hundred foot inter- vals. As you' ll see in these slides, the site is presently in a pretty degraded condition. There' s large amounts of scattered de- bris about the site and there ' s very inadequate cover. There ' s less than six inches of cover over the entire site, which leaves much of the refuse exposed to the air. This is moving further east- ward alon, on the site. One problem with uncovered, or improperly -15- covered refuse, is, it acts somewhat like a sponge that has a saturation point, and once it does become saturated, then any liquids beyond that saturation point will drain out of the bottom and run along the base of the pit. As you can see in the, on the left side where the pickup is parked that was a two hundred foot strip of the site that we did reclaim. Ah, that area was previously landfill. We established the fence that you see there to prevent unauthorized access to the site, and, if the site is designated it will also act as the fence to control wind-blown debris from leaving the property. One thing we propose to do, ah, if the site is desig- nated, is immediately clean up the site, cleaning up all the debris that you saw in the pictures and establish a minimum of six inches of cover over the entire site. That' s all the slides I have. (Brad Keirnes back to podium. ) As Byron mentioned, ah, upon completion of the site, and, ah, when the proper grades are established the site will be finally closed and we will apply two feet of soil and final grades will be established on the site that will be suitable for dryland farming purposes. That' s all I have. I 'd be happy to answer any questions you might have or CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay, do you have any questions of Bryon or Brad: COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: You say it will take, ah, ten to eighteen months, once you start on this, to finish it up. BRAD KEIRNES : Yes. -16- COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: When do you, if this was approved, when would you anticipate starting to u, utilize that area? BRAD KEIRNES: Well, ah, one of the Development Stand- ards is that we have to prepare a leachate, or design a leachate collection system within one month of designation and we cannot begin any operations on the site until that' s been designed and submitted to the State and the County for your approval, and once that is done, then we would begin operations on the site. So it'd be as soon as possible. And we would prioritize filling on this Pratt site over our other site because we do want to get it cleaned up and properly closed as soon as possible. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: So that' s your priority, is to get that cleaned up and filled? BRAD KEIRNES : That' s right. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Ah,you say you had two other sites that were closed. I 'm aware of Windsor, what was the other one that you had operated and then closed. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON : Fort Lupton. BRAD KEIRNES : Fort Lupton site COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Right BRAD KEIRNES : Along Highway 85 . CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: It ' s down between Lupton and Brigh- ton on COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Right on the highway there CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Any other questions? (Tape change, Tape #83-40 -17- CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: (Inaudible) MR. DREYFUSS: My name is Jeffrey Dreyfuss. I live in the town of Erie. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: You're what? MR. DREYFUSS : My name is Jeffrey Dreyfuss. I live in the town of Erie. COMMISSIONERS MARTIN: Dreyfuss? MR. DREYFUSS : Right. D-R-E-Y-F-U-S-S. Um, I 've brought some pictures that were taken and submitted at the Planning Com- mission that show, that I 'd like to, ah, present to the, you folks, that show in the recent history of this landfill, that they were out of compliance with their present permit. And um, I' ll show you some of these. MR. MORRISON: Those will, are already are a part of the record and as you can MR. DREYFUSS : (Inaudible) MR. MORRISON: No, but I understand that. But they are part of the record so they don' t have to be resubmitted. When, you make MR. DREYFUSS : (Inaudible) MR. MORRISON: Yes. Refer to the numbers. MR. DREYFUSS : Okay. That' s Exhibit One here I ' ll show, ah, let me get organized, move it around here, um, an open pit of water with trash floating on the top, uncoverd. According to their permit, all trash needs to be covered. Um, this picture right here, um, here' s another picture of the same, the same area uncovered. -18- Here' s a picture of animals which have wandered on the site, although the applicant claims that the site is totally fenced I have other pictures that show that the fence has been down over a period of time and animals are able to wander on the site. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: When were these pictures taken? MR. DREYFUSS: These are dated April 9th, 1983. These are, all these pictures were taken by local residents and some of them are present here tonight, today. Here' s a aerial photo of the same, of well, this actually, this is. a pocket of water, two pockets of what which are below the landfill which is up here that' s readily easy to see the erosion which has occurred and the, um, Crow Creek which flows through the Town of Erie is just below this pic- ture. This water can easily flow into Crow Creek right now at the present. MR. MORRISON: That' s number nine. MR. DREYFUSS : Number nine, yes, sorry. This picture shows . where the major population of the Town of Erie is relative to where the dump is at present. We are very close. This picture shows also, a different portion of Erie which is the Erie Air Park. These houses all have the view of the landfill which is right here. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: That' s Exhibit Eight? MR. DREYFUSS : Here I would like to show what, one truck going down the Road 6, the amount of dust that it produces. Here' s another picture which shows how one bulldozer at the site is in- capable of keeping up with the amount of trash that is being dumped there right at the present. Here ' s another picture of trash un- covered. Closer picture of the same. Here ' s a picture of the fence -19- that is down, that was not repaired. Another picture of the same fence. MR. MORRISON : Twenty-two and twenty-four. MR. DREYFUSS : Twenty-three showed that fence also down. Ah, the rest of these are redundant. At the, ah, Planning Com- mission meeting, Brad Keirnes claimed that recent amounts of mois- ture had made it impossible for him to cover the trash. I felt that, the, perhaps the dump should have been closed on, for that period of time where he was unable to cover the trash. Ah, that wasn't addressed by the Commission. He admitted that he had been out of compliance. I feel if the County Commissioners grant him this ex- pansion, they are condoning the way he has been running his present landfill. People in town have a lot of shallow wells which they use for irrigation and they' re concerned that some of these wells are only twenty feet deep and they are concerned about the runoff from the present site, not only the future expansion. Um, Brad ' s engineer, um, claimed it would cost a hundred thousand dollars to cover this site. I think, if that figure is gonna be believed it should be checked by the County Engineers to see if that' s really a true figure. I don' t believe it would cost that much to cover the trash that exists there and I think, if you looked at those pictures closely, type of trash you saw there was paper, some wood and tires and. What I would consider, I 'm, I 'm not arguing that there is trash there, but I think that the trash is of, trash is of a harmless nature and it doesn't have to be. What he, what he ' s proposing is, to lay in more trash and cover it. He' s not doing a -20- benevolent thing for the County or the people of Erie. He' s, he wants to put in more trash and put more fill on it. And if you look at this picture, if you look at this picture, if he does not get the Pratt site, it ' s obvious that he cannot run his grade as high as he indicates on this picture. By giving him the Pratt site, he will extend the life of this landfill considerably. People around it, around this landfill think that it degrades the value of their homes and I agree. I think having a landfill this close to a town of twelve hundred people, that' s growing, is very, really an eye- sore. And, ah, I don ' t think that the County Commissioners should allow it. Now, let' s see what I 've got here. Um, I 'd like the, the County Commissioners to ask Brad if every time we have heavy moisture will the trash be, remain uncovered? Or will he close down the plant? The ah, landfill. Um, one thing that Brad' s not, um, addressed, is that over eighty percent of the trucks that enter this landfill are not from Weld County. They're from Boulder, ah, Adams County, Denver, the vast majority of the trucks are not from Boulder, I mean, not from Weld County. It' s not servicing the County of Weld to any considerable ext, degree. There ' s a letter, I believe, in your packet, that states that when the present land- fill at Marshall for the City of Boulder, in Boulder County, is closed, which is less than six years, they will be using this land- fill. And they've admitted that. And ah, I don' t know if you've read the papers recently, but ah, the landfill at Marshall wasn't run too well and that ' s another thing I 'd like to point out about this landfill. As was brought up in the Planning Commission' s -21- meeting, it' s totally up to the integrity of the landfill operator as to what is dumped and what is not dumped in this landfill. Brad admitted that in the, since the opening of this landfill, not one load of dumping material has been refused. What this percolates down to, is that there is one lady that sits in a booth that collects money, that is incapable of deciding what is a hazardous waste or what is just trash. The majority of the loads that come into this landfill are covered. There is no inspection. I believe , that what happened in Marshall will happen ' t .this landfill. And the hundred thousand dollars that he claims will cov, it takes to cover this, the old landfill will be a pittance compared to what it is going to cost to fix the whole landfill when it' s contaminated. Ah, it was stated that a clay liner would be placed in the landfill. For him to do that, he would have to dig out all the old trash and lay a clay liner and put it all back in. I don't think that' s what he has in, his intention is. I believe, he' s going to put the clay . liner on top. Which I don' t see is serving much purpose. Um, I believe that the landfill is inconsistent with the Erie copy of the plan, which the Planning Commission didn' t seem to think was very important. Um, one of the stipulations in the County Ordin- ances, is that it can 't effect surrounding property and I believe, that this landfill is presently, and will in the future, effect the surrounding property values. The houses that are at this air park range anywhere from a hundred thousand to a half a million dollars. Ah, those people have quite an investment out there. And they are looking right down on this . I don' t believe that it's, that he' s -22- capable of running this landfill as I 've shown, ah, to adhere to the permit requirements. I believe that this landfill just isn' t in the best interests of the local residents of the Town of Erie and Weld County for that matter, and I would ask if, if , if the Board votes favorably on this, that at least they put a stipulation that this is the last expansion that this landfill will go through. Um, in the past, other um, petitioners have come to put an eight hundred acre landfill very close to this landfill and ah, there' s a big fear that when Brad finishes with this, he' ll just buy ad- jacent property and keep expanding. I 'd like to hear the County Commissioners put some stipulation on that, if they grant this, that this is it. There ' s no more. That' s all I have to say. Thank you. MR. LOUIS : Good afternoon. Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission. My name is David Louis. I 'm Mayor of Erie, Colo- rado. I 'm here on behalf of the people and the Board of Trustees for the Town of Erie, Colorado, and I 'm here to state the position of the people and the Board in regards to this matter. Hopefully, you have all the information that was presented to you through the Planning Commission, specifically the resolution that the Erie Town Board of Trustees passed, in opposition to any expansion or any, the creation of any new landfill dumps, ah, or the expansion of current ones or annexing of new areas to ah, be included for such use. Jeff Dreyfuss, former member of the Erie Planning Commission, touched on a number of crucial points, when we've, considering the extension of the current operations of the Keirnes ' organization -23- to renew Pratt property. Um, I 've myself, taken some great detail and pain to investigate the area personally. Physically going on the area, the site and around it. And, at the very least, I have to concur with, ah, Jeff Dreyfuss. Um, I 'm speaking to the record of the Keirnes' organization and what is currently being done in the area within the realm of landfill operation. Um, the current site, um, the applicant is not, in my estimation, and those who have observed the site, being managed carefully or properly or even within minimal compliance, as far as I 'm concerned and have been able to observe. Ah, with the State statutes or even the County regulations, if the County regulations allow for very large amounts on their own current landfill site, not the Pratt property, but the adjacent site that they' re running. If the County operations allow for very large amounts of unburied trash, to depths of three to four feet, stretching for, I 'd say at least a third of the entire acreage, probably close to half of it, as observed by myself at one-thirty in the afternoon of April 2nd, 1983, to go on as an oncurring, ongoing, current occurring part of their operations, then, we have woefully inadequate, in fact, no standards at all. Unburied garbage, as you're well aware, attracts sea gulls. I counted a very large number of sea gulls present within the landfill site on April 2nd, 1983, in the afternoon and stopped counting after two dozen. Ladies and gentlemen, sea gulls pose a lethal hazard to aviation. Translated, they strike aircraft, down them and kill people. It' s that simple. There is an airport within ten thousand feet of those sea gulls. The expert that was testifying in behalf -24- of the applicant, Dr. Stambur, has on occasion, adamantly said, pre- viously, that in fact, there are no sea gulls in the landfill, and would have us believe this is a figment of our imagination or we' re overly partisan in this matter. In fact, he , well as much as admitted in the Planning Commission meeting of April 19th, that well, maybe he was a little wrong, maybe there are a couple up there, but, not much more than that. I was raised on the Texas gulf coast, I know a sea gull when I see one. There were very large numbers of them up there. The literal fate and life of aviators may well be in the hands of this Commission today. This is not simply an esoteric or an aesthetic argument, we' re talking about the safety and health of people and their very lives. I had ada- mantly, repeatedly, unyieldingly, opposed the operation as it is being conducted now and certainly would not in any way be in favor of the extension of such an operation based on its record. No system exists, as Jeff Dreyfuss has pointed out, to check loads as they enter onto the site, the current site, as it' s being operated. Indeed, ,it was testified in the Planning Commission meeting on April l9t4 that large sealed drums were seen being thrown off of trucks into the current landfill operation. This is not according to permit. In fact, Ned Noack, of the Health Department, conceded that he'd been contacted by the operators, that tanker trucks had come into the site and had emptied and he advised them to seek an amendment of their permit, if they were going to continue to do this kindof thing. Truly amazing. Ah, an admission of being out of compliance. The simple posting, ladies and gentlemen, of a sign -25- on the front gate of the operator' s operations, saying, "No hazard- ous waste allowed, " three by four feet, or whatever the require- ments are, is in my mind akin to putting a sign on the front of a bank, saying, "Bank robberies forbidden, please don' t rob, " and there being no police department, or in this instance, no enforcement authorit.y. Ah, we, we have to depend upon the good will of, of people not to rob the bank, or in this instance, not to sneak into the dump and, and dump forbidden wastes. Ah, there ' s no system to prevent violation on site, on site or with the County or anything else. And, if it exists, it' s certainly not in place and not visi- ble. Ah, Dr. Robert Frost, of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, states that the air quality, experi, air quality experiments being conducted nearby, are being greatly jeopardized by the increase in truck traffic, ah, in the area. Indeed, ah, the applicants have repeatedly said they conduct dampening down or wetting operations to reduce and, you know, eliminate dust. I ' ll • guarantee you, it looks like the Sahara Desert out there. These are very real things that I have seen myself, this isn't hearsay, you know this isn' t someone' s opinion that' s been passed on to me, I've seen it myself. There is no reasonably demonstrated need for such an expansion onto the Pratt property. The "closing" of the Pratt property can be taken care of if the County Commissioners will accept the publicly stated offer by an Erie resident to close the property at his own expense with equipment according to State Standards. He stood in the Planning Commission himself and said that he would do it at his expense. The concern of the County for -26- the existing trash is, therefore, removed. The man has the equip- ment, the ability, and the desire to close it, at his expense. The current, the current Pratt land has very little trash on it as we've seen by the slides. We've seen some crushed wooden crates, we've seen some paper, nothing that can ' t be taken care of with minimal time of the proper permits being required for the um, leach- ate sites. Finally, the residents of the Town of Erie, Colorado, in southwest Weld County, one hundred eighty-four signed, notarized signatures on petition, opposed the expansion as a threat to their health and safety and the continuance of their property values. At the very least, I would certainly agree with them. Um, that' s essentially the base of the argument. We're concerned with our health, our safety, the exceptionally poor record, as we have been able to observe it ourselves , of the operator. An admission, in effect, that he' s been out of compliance. Unsealed garbage left overnight, in fact for quite a while, is certainly not a compliance. He' s responsible for this . The County' s admitted they don't have the -ah, ordinances to make him go back and, or make the property owner, go back and clean up the site from a prior landfill opera- tion, that is, the property owner, Mr. Pratt. They've admitted that they' d only have a littering ordinance that would address that, which is most unfortunate. Um, I 'm simply asking that the persons who volunteered to do this, be allowed to do so, that the trash be considered minimal as a eyesore as it is now. You cer- tainly don't solve the problem by bringing on hundreds of thousands of square yards more of garbage to bury what amounts to a little -27- paper and a few crushed crates. No one in the Health Department has been able to determine if the Pratt property poses an immediate, or even long range, threat to health or human, human safety. On the other hand, I think I 've well illustrated here today that the method in which the current operations are being conducted and the great number of sea gulls, combined with great amounts of ongoing, unburied garbage, do indeed pose a great, great threat to aviation, to health and safety. There ' s an article I brought with me, it' s very brief, and it ' s simply from the paper. This was put out by the Environmental Protection Administration and it goes right to the heart of the issue. Um, Reagan, President Reagan ' s Environmental Protection Administration has not won great rounds of applause from those who are highly concerned with the environment, but even they state the following, "Doping is popular because it is cheap. The Administrator said the real cost is borne in the end, not by the producer or the disposer of wastes, but by the people whose health and properties are in, in, property values are destroyed. " And, I think that' s where we 're at right now. Are we going to continue to use southwest Weld County and the areas outside of the Town of Erie for, you know, things that, quite frankly, would not be allowed, ah other places in Weld County without a ferocious outcry? The people, very humbly, have come before you and asked not to allow this because of its effect on people, who may be looking at our community for good clean development, the placement of industries, the placement of good clean homes in our logical expansion to the east. Without a doubt, people who are in the audience and the -28- Planning Commission at the last session, that being Mr. Dan Horst and James Dearmin, who were sitting here through the entire session, without a doubt in my mind, at least, I would be very surprised if they didn 't, will right back here getting up another permit to try to bring us eight, nine hundred, or how many other hundreds and thousands of square acres of garbage they can bring us. Are we going to have this all the way to I-25, I mean you know, where is the limit on this? Ah, I would definitely like some feedback from the Commissioners on this and I ' ll be very pleased to answer your questions. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Anybody have any questions? Any comments? COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Yeah, Mr. Chairman. I 've been around here a few years. Back in ' 77 and ' 78 and early ' 79 when we were attempting to close this so-called expansion as we're considering today. Guess who the opposition was to us closing it? • It was the Town of Erie. That was an eyesore. Still is an eye- sore. I think it needs to be properly closed. Let ' s eliminate the eyesore and ah, now, we 've had a hundred and eighty degree turn around from the people in the City, in the City of Erie in the last five years. That concerns me. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON : Also, I have another comment. You was talking about sea gulls. I 've been, and the birds. You are aware of the independent study on birds. They found more birds at the airport than they did at the trash. You know that: MR. LOUIS : This was study that was funded by the petitioner, -29- is that correct, sir? CHAIRMAN C, CARLSON: No, no, no. That was an independ- ent study, that was independent study. And also, ah, whenever we ' re down in that area, we make a very concerted effort to go to the dump and make sure that things are right and they have always been right and everytime, the last two times I was there, I did not see hardly any birds at the dump. But, you talk about sea gulls, I went just about two miles away and a man was plowing and his field was white with sea gulls when he was plowing and turning the soil. All right, he was closer to the airport than the dump. All right. Now, what are you going to do about that? MR. LOUIS : Well, there, as Dr. Stambur pointed out, Mr. Chairman, sea gulls do follow farm tractors, but what about my ob- servation of large numbers of them sitting within the wire fence of the dump on the second of April when I was there myself? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Well, um, sure COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: You ought to have a picture to verify that. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: I understand, ah maybe, maybe so, but, when I was there they were not there. MR. LOUIS: I see . CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: And every time I 've been there, they have not been there. And ah, we've been very ah, concerned ah, I think, that anybody that says that the Keirnes run a shoddy op- eration they need to talk to the State Health Department and they will find out exactly the opposite. They run one of the finest operations in the State. And ah, all you have to do is just go -30- about ten miles to the North of this and you will find the Long- mont operation which we can' t, we've had problems with and you will find exactly the opposite . And, that' s all you have to do. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Any other comments, questions? COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Mayor Louis, I used to be in trash business and I used the Keirnes landfill here at Greeley. I know that there can be problems, there can be weather problems, but, if they shut that down every time that they can't completely cover this, I think that it creates a worse hazard. We can't pick the trash up that is set out, we couldn't. Therefore , there was trash left on the streets and the alleys that kids, dogs and every- thing got into, where we did not have one area that was uncovered. We had trash all over the County because that just stopped all of the trash haulers from picking this up. We, whenever, they would say the wind was blowing, we had to shut down, or ah, it was muddy they couldn't cover it, we really raised heck, because we realized • what it was doing as far as, ah, goofing our routes up and the problem that it conser, or that it caused in the municipalities so, I guess I can understand and sympathize with them when they can' t cover, that the other hazards are the causes. MR. LOUIS : I , I would simply say that what I have told you is accurate. Ah, Commissioner Carlson observed there was no photograph of what I had tel, told you. I was out onto the pro- perty taking household refuse myself, due to some construction on my property, to the dump. I wasn't prepared to find what I found. I didn't have a camera with me, all right? I mean I wasn't there -31- for that specific purpose, to document violation. I happened to see it as a result of taking trash. Nonetheless, the serious, very serious, questions of the future of the area, my address to what I expect to be a certain application for permit for a huge operation that would dwarf what is going on there now, that' s very, very, very important and critical to us. Ah, CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Yeah, but we 're not even consider- ing that today. MR. LOUIS: I, I understand that. I 'm just saying this as a matter of concern to the Commission at this point, relayed and allied to that subject. Ah, if this is granted, I would, I would, as Jeff Dreyfuss requested, request a specific time limit, in other words, we don' t want to be sitting here four years out, saying well, we're, we 're trying to close it, but, you know, it' s raining or whatever. I mean, we would like some specific para- meters put on the use and operation of this site. If it' s a closure, it' s a closure. But let' s, let' s understand, you know, how long is this going to take. That' s all I have gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen. Ah, if there are further questions I ' ll be pleased to answer them. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Nope, thank you. MR. LOUIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: We have . . . , a comment here. KATHY MEADOR: My name is Kathy Meador, and I 'm on the Planning Commission for the Town of Erie, and I 'm elected as, of Erie, specifically Erie Air Park. If I can quit shaking, I want to -32- present y'all with some things. Ah, do I have to stand in front of the mike? COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: We won' t bite you, so don 't, you can quit shaking. KATHY MEADOR: Ah, first of all we sent away for the in- spections that, ah from the State of Colorado and also from Weld County Health Department. Initially, when we called the Weld County Health Department we were told that they didn' t have to in- spect that dump. They weren' t even sure who was supposed to inspect the dump. Ah, we did a little more digging and we talked to Ned Noack who is the State Health Department and he said that they in- spected. Ah, if you' ll look over their inspections you' ll find that they're rather sketchy, to say the least. And I 'd just like to, these are for, since the dump is open (Inaudible) . Something I 'd like to point out to you is that when they do the water inspection for the State and for the County Health Department the petitioner is allowed to collect his own water, this water is then sent to his lab, he pays for the cost of the testing. Then these results are then sent to the State and the County Health Department. I find this is kind of relying on him to police him- self and we 've seen both on a State level and on a Federal level that this does not work, and it concerns us, it concerns those of us who have to drink the water out there. The next thing I 'd like to present to you was presented to the Planning Commission in Erie of the users of this facility. Since this facility is supposed to serve Weld County there are thirteen people who use it--this was given to us by the petitioner and I 'd like y' all to see it. -33- Of the people on this list, only two, Brighton Best and Town and County, mainly serve southwest County. MR. MORRISON: There is some written, written comments on here, are those yours, Kathy? KATHY MEADOR: Those are just my own notes. MR. MORRISON: Okay. KATHY MEADOR: (Inaudible. ) MR. MORRISON: No, no, I just want it for the record, as to the source of those and KATHY MEADOR: That dump serves, from Cherry Creek in Denver, north of Hampden, I don't know if y' all are familiar with Denver, that ' s about as south as you can get, so it' s Adams County, Denver County, Jefferson County and there are two trash haulers who pick up in Weld County. Ah, the people in Boulder are served by Western and Sunshine and BFI . Western told me that they will be sending all of their garbage to this dump because they are in direct, direct competition with BFI, and they are not going to use Marshall Landfill. BFI told me that they use this dump when the wind is blowing so hard in Boulder that they can' t open at Marshall, and it ' s hard for me to believe that the wind that blows in Mar- shall was any less than the wind that I get where I am. But our dump has not been closed often, has it? BRAD KEIRNES : No, it hasn ' t. KATHY MEADOR: There were some others that if, we had people stationed at the landfill from six in the morning until six at night, there were other people that you could add to that -34- list, ah, mainly Zurlock Roll-Off and Blue Barrel. Their trash trucks were in and out all day long. We sat at the dump from six to six on a Monday morning, which we were told was their slowest morning. Ah, we have people that will submit the findings that they had from it, and it was quite interesting. Something else I ' d like to address is, the Mr. Keirnes ' saying that they have always been in compliance. We obtained the State Regulations for Landfills. We went over them section by section. There are many times that they have not been in compli- ance. Granted, we've had a very wet spring and a very wet winter, and I can understand why they might not be able to cover it. However, accepting liquid wastes into a landfill, which they ad- mitted, to me at least, they accepted from Pumping Technology. This is in direct violation of State Guidelines on solid waste landfills. In order to dump liquid wastes in a solid waste land- fill you have to have at least twenty percent solid waste. What was coming in there is less than one percent solid waste. You will see it verified in their reports of their inspections. They didn't keep the waste covered as was shown in the pictures. They explained that, that the ground was too wet. Ah, I can't prove it wasn't, but I would probably have to differ with them. They're, from the State inspections, there ' s evidence of industrial waste. These are also liquid wastes with a content ah, a solid waste content of ah, less than one percent in direct violation of State Guidelines. They accepted materials, which are also listed in those reports, that were unacceptable to the State . These things are asbestos, -35- which we now know the dangers of asbestos . They also accepted tires. In the State Regulations it says that tires should not be put in a landfill because they cannot be buried; they always rise to the surface and they collect bacteria and viruses that can cause diseases. Ah, we saw trucks going in with tires piled six feet higher than the cab on the trucks, and that is also a violation. They have water in holding ponds that is flowing down into another pond. Eventually this water will contaminate Coal Creek, which is one of our prettiest areas around our neighborhood. If you' ll look in those State Guidelines you will see that they have accepted sol, ah, liquid wastes since 1981, without a permit. I spoke to, ah, Ned Noack, with the State Health Department, and I asked him why they were allowed to accept solid was, or liquid waste materials without a permit, and he told me that they were trying to help them get a permit. My thoughts on that were that I have always felt that our government regulations and our govern- ment agencies were there to protect us, they were there to regu- late ventures such as this, and when an agency is helping a firm get a permit when they have been in violation for well over two years, they are not protecting my best interest, they are no longer being partial. The other things I ' d like to address, ah, there' s been a great deal said about the property values in our area. I have a house that we spent two years building. It' s worth a great deal of money cash-wise, and it' s worth a great deal to me, labor-wise, and hope. From my front porch I can watch this landfill. The State Regulations say that no landfill can be put in an area that -36- it would decrease property values. If you keep allowing this ex- pansion, our property values, sooner or later, are going to be worth nothing and then I am sure we 're all going to be up here ask- ing that our taxes be decreased because of this. We all pay sub- stantial taxes, as was brought out, we have houses from four hundred and fifty thousand dollars down, and that' s a very conservative estimate, and this is damaging our property values in direct violation of what the State has asked. Ah, as Mayor Louis brought out, we do have people that are willing to clean up the mess out there. We don' t feel that it would be a hundred thousand dollar project or, obviously, we would not have volunteered. I am sure that just within our com- munity we could gather enough people that we, would be willing to spend a few days or weeks that it would take to clean it up. We do have the heavy equipment, we have the heavy equipment operators. They could do just a fine a job as they are without bringing any more trash. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Now, my question on that is that this ah, has ben a, a mess for about six or eight years, and why hasn' t it been cleaned up at this point? It could have been done before now. KATHY MEADOR: Well, that' s the same things I could also ask, ah, the State Health Department, why didn't they require it cleaned up? At the point that I think you were addressing, the people in Erie wanted that dump kept open. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: They did. -37- KATHY MEADOR: Because they had no other place to dump, and there was no one who picked up trash in that town. Now that situation has changed. We have a dump that we can all go to. It' s maybe called Colorado Landfill before y'all, but is noted, last night on the .radio when they told about the body being found at Colorado Landfill, they referred to it as the Erie Landfill. We get all the glory of the landfill. Ah, ah, speaking of bring- ing a body in, it' s obviously that they are not able to inspect their loads at the du, if a dead body can be dumped at their landfill (Inaudible comments and laughter from audience) KATHY MEADOR: Ah, I think also, you might take in con- sideration that the, the mood and feelings of the Town of Erie have changed a great deal in the last five years. There are more people who are more involved in, ah, community matters. Ah, we have a very great influx of young people who are building their first homes, raising their families, and things change. We 'd like to see it cleaned up, but we're willing to do it ourselves . That' s it. Thank you. MR. MORRISON: Before you go, do you have a citation for the part you referred to; not allowing the, ah, disposal of tires on site. Do you have a citation? KATHY MEADOR: Yeah, it ' s in here if you want to wait while I underline it. MR. MORRISON: Well, do, is there a number on it? KATHY MEADOR: I 'm sure there is. I didn't underline it -38- MR. MORRISON: Can you just show me, or KATHY MEADOR: No. I 'd have to sit down and look for it. MR. MORRISON: Okay, well maybe you can come back a little later and tell us. KATHY MEADOR: Thank you. BEVERLY CAMERON: My name is Beverly Cameron. I live at the Erie Air Park and am a resident of the Erie Air Park Homeowner' s Association. First of all, I 'd like to address ah, a moment about us cleaning up the dump. We did say there at the old landfill, we had said we were willing to do that. However, I am appalled by Mr. Keirnes ' pictures. We moved to Erie Air Park in 1979 , and at that time my husband and I did a lot of motorcycle riding. We took some back roads and the back roads in through that dump area, and we rode that area quite often, quite a lot. There wasn 't the dirt, the trash, and the, the awful mess that there is there today. There were some ah, old pieces of metal, and some old crates and things, but not the paper and the trash and the, the junk that you saw in the slides today. I fly over that area all the time too. I 'm a pilot and an instructor and that' s one of my normal habitats, it' s a few hundred feet above the ground right there. And just lately, since they've put the new fence up around their new, their new property, have we noticed the increase in trash and paper and the stuff that' s blowing off of their existing landfill into their new proposed landfill. This has allbeenctnejust since they put the fence up. There wasn' t any trash and paper blowing around, there was junk there, yes, and it would have taken a front end -39- loader and a trash truck or a, a dump truck to pick it up. Now, if we volunteer we're going to be out there picking up pieces of paper that' s blown off of their trash site for I don't know how long. I 'm really, really upset about that. If I 'd known they were bringing those kind of pictures I could have brought you some aerial photographs from two or three years ago. It wouldn' t have shown that. I hope you've all had a chance to look at the pa, the letter that I mailed in on behalf of Erie Air Park Homeowners ' Association on April 14th, that two-page letter, asking you to please consider this. Ah, I also addressed it to the State Health Department and, ah, I don't, do you, did you get, get copies of this, 'cause I don't want to read it all. I would like for you to be able to refer to it. (Inaudible) BEVERLY CAMERON: On referenced item number one; super- vision, when we had our house built and everybody else built a home, we are, ah, abided by the County Health Department and the County Building Department, our builders must comply with the, a building code and our contractors must call the Building Depart- ment out, at our expense, to inspect whatever is being done. This is done throughout the whole period of building a home, or building a building or anything else. But we pay for it. And I would hope that if you people decide that you have to, ah, approve this in- stead of listening to what people do, are begging you to do, I ' ll put the cart before the horse here a minute and ask you to specify -40- a few major things that if you do approve the, ah, expansion that you will at least take into consideration some of the needs for, of the rest of us. If they had to comply with build, with permits and inspection fees and pay for that, each month as an inspector came by from the County and/or the State, it had, could be a self- supporting program. I don't understand why the State has to worry, or the County worries about paying for it when, ah, the landfill people could pay for it themselves. But, it should be an outside objective type view, not somebody from. their own, their own camp. Same way with the water situation. I don' t think five years is nearly long enough to enable us to check on water and underground contamination, methane gas in those land dump underground mines. That could, that could probably last much longer than five years. I think there needs to be some fund set up for a fifteen or twenty year period at some point, to make sure that something is taken care o£ if there' s a problem later on. I think it should be inspected periodically, and, ah just as a drop-in situation, not that I 'm calling up and will be there in a week from next Sunday so you can be sure to get things cleaned up. Item number four addresses, ah, the close proximity of dumps to the existing communities. I think the State or the County should regulate the placement of landfills altogether, keep them at least five miles from an existing town or town boundaries. This would also be outside the three-mile Comprehensive Plan Areas of most towns and cities. Erie' s within a mile of part of this, a -41- mile and a half or two miles of the whole thing , and the Air Park is within that close proximity. You saw the pictures and you realize we can all sit on our front porches and watch. I can sit at my kitchen table and watch the trucks back and forth. Ah, item seven indicates that although Weld County is collecting ten percent of the gross receipts, assuming that you really know what the gross receipts are, they're doing very little to patrol and maintain the access roads because they're full of dust and dirt, and they're being very lit, they're doing very little to main, to patrol the roads with patrolmen or Sheriff ' s Department, to make sure that the dump drivers are in adherence with the, ah regulations and speed limits. We 've had a lot of complaints about people that live in the area having trucks speeding and overturning on their yards and so forth. I feel like if we have to maintain this, then ten percent should be turned right around back into that area to pave those roads. • CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: It is . BEVERLY CAMERON: and to patrol them CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: It is. BEVERLY CAMERON: with the Sheriff ' s patrol car, and ah, something, somebody to patrol COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: It is. BEVERLY CAMERON: that. I would hope that would happen. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: That ten percent surcharge has paved two miles of County Road 7 and one mile of County Road 6 , and, and -42- BEVERLY CAMERON: Half their traffic comes in on Road 5, and that' s right by the NOAA tower. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: There' s, there'd be no BEVERLY CAMERON: (in background) And on Road Sev, Well COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: You know, you can only do so much, ah, the money is going to, be there to pave seven between six and eight, and then go to five, and then, you know, you can' t do it all in one year. BEVERLY CAMERON: Well, I understand, but nothing' s been done yet, so CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Oh, yes. Oh no, that 's COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Nothing? We 've paved three miles. BEVERLY CAMERON: Well, on Road 7 CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: That's, that's a, an erroneous statement , COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: We've paved three miles in two years. BEVERLY CAMERON: Oh, well, okay. Excuse me. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Six m, we've paved three, three miles of road. BEVERLY CAMERON: All right. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Three miles. BEVERLY CAMERON: We, I was one of the ladies that sat on Road 6 for two hours on February 20th, and counted trucks in and out. I counted, ah, fifty-four trucks going by me in two hours -43- and the dust was intolerable. I had to move my car over to the other side of the road so that I wouldn' t get inundated with dust and dirt, and CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Yeah, but there 's nobody lives along that road. BEVERLY CAMERON: Not right there, no. We have farmers that work there CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: We 've got, we've got twenty-six, twenty-seven hundred miles of road in Weld County and we 've got a lot of residents that live along our roads and we have done our best to keep the dust more BEVERLY CAMERON: I realize that, I realize roads are a problem CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: (indistinguishable) dust problems where people live BEVERLY CAMERON: None of your roads have that kind of traffic on them, though, at that point. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Oh, now, don't say none. Don 't say none. BEVERLY CAMERON: And that dust goes a lot further than that. Okay, most of them. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Don't say none. That ' s not a good statement either. BEVERLY CAMERON: Okay, never say always and never, COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: You want me to show you a letter I got this morning on a road pre, very close to Greeley? -44- BEVERLY CAMERON: You've got problems here, too. I can understand that, too, okay, but if ten percent was coming back into that, CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: It is. BEVERLY CAMERON: That was the point, okay. It's too late to abolish the existing landfill and, and to re, recoup what Erie' s losing in the way of, ah, our health, safety, and property values, but it's not too late to begin to, begin a State-wide or at least a County-wide program in order to plan to assure that you' re going to protect your citizens or constituents from this kind of abuse; to have a landfill and dump sites within a, a mile or two of any town or existing area. That's just appalling to me to think that it could happen right across the, the road from an existing town or city. And as you have seen, the dump is not a County prob- lem any more, it' s a regional problem. We know people need a place to dump. As long as we open a carton of milk and throw the carton away it' s got to go someplace, but it should be within areas that are not within city limits or within a three or five-mile radius of a town. And hopefully, someday, people will figure a way to do something besides bury our trash in the ground. I know that' s gonna cost more too, but still it should be done at that point. We 'd welcome any suggestions or any of the support that you can give us because we, we haven 't got any place else to turn either. We 've dealt with the State Health Department, we've dealt with the Planning Commission and their Board of Trustees and there just isn' t any place else to go. So we'd like to ask you please to, to consider that and to watch, consider the future too. As to what kind -45- of a precedent will you be setting. This is definitely on all our minds, we don't want to see that happen. I do have a list of the trucks from three shifts of our six, six hours, that show like this: in and out traffic, and these people most of them went through or down Road 7, right by all these people ' s homes on the pavement, and I ' ll, I 'll give you that, and then the rest of it, up road, ah Road 6 that we watched. Now we didn' t even count the ones into Road 5, 'cause we didn't realize they used that so exclusively, too, but they do come in from that direction. I think that ' s it for right now. If you have any questions. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Thank you. DON BRANHAM: Ah, my name is Don Branham, a resident of Erie, and, ah, I 've lived there for two years, so I don't know what' s transpired in the past as far as , ah, ah, the, the feelings on the, the dump area. I do feel that, ah, and, and do fear that it' s becoming a regional dump area, and as a resident there, that, ah, that frightens me. That we're going to, ah, be a central dump area for all the surrounding counties because nobody else wants this expansion. And, ah, even though that, maybe that specific thing is not being addressed to you now, today, we 're just talking about it, perhaps a small area. I, I think this is a, a step ever, ever how small, it is a step that moves us all into that direction. And the, the writing seems to on, ah on the wall, and I, ah, I object to this proposal, that ' s ah, placed in front of you today. Byron here, seemed to have a, ah, inconsistency in his -46- opening statement that even bothered me somewhat. He said that, ah, the, ah request that he had, ah would extend from eight, I mean, excuse me, from ten to eighteen months. Ah, in the first part of his statement, and then towards the end of his statement he said around eighteen months. It seems to me he ' s already hedging on that time limit. And, ah, I would like some assurances that he is not hedging on that time limit, some firm time limits put on this, if the, ah, Commission does approve it. I CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Let me, let me make a comment on this, and this has been brought up two or three times. Ah, they're just like everybody else. They can' t control the number of loads that come into 'em. They've got to, it' s, it 's all done on a per- centage basis, and DON BRANHAM: Percentage of what? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: A percentage of what they've been bringing in and what they, what they intend to get in DON BRANHAM: I don't understand that. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: and that' s, that' s why, that' s why you cannot lock in a date and say ten days from today it' s going to be that way, because ten days from today there might not be enough to fill it. DON BRANHAM: Ah, you, you' ll have to back up, ma'am, I 've lost you. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: All right. DON BRANHAM: As to, as to when they will close this, is that, is that what you're -47- CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: That's right. Because, in ten days he might be figuring on a hundred loads incoming in ten days and only fifty come, well then, then you can't, you can 't close it, you understand what I 'm getting at? DON BRANHAM. I think I 'm beginning to get it. Ah, you' re, you're saying that even, even CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: So, so, say that, say that DON BRANHAM: Even though if eighteen months, even thoush if eighteen months, if, if, if it' s not full by eighteen months, or received the amount of load that he's, ah requested, well then it can be extended to twenty-four, or three years, or five years, or, or, you know I don' t want to get ridiculous about it. CHAIRMAN C . CARLSON: Yeah, let' s don ' t get ridiculous about it, but, ah, what we're, what we're really talking about here is that, say he needs two thousand loads to fill a hole, and it takes a we, his percentage is telling him it' s gonna take him twenty days to do that. All right, it takes thirty days to get to third, with two thousand loads, well you're not gonna close it in twenty days--you' re gonna wait until the hole ' s full, and in thirty days when it ' s full, then you're gonna close it. DON BRANHAM: So, so that CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: So you can' t really say, sit here, and I can' t really sit here and lock in a date COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: (inaudible remarks) CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: And it' s just like everything else. That goes with farming and common sense in anything you do. You -48- can't close something that's half full. You gotta, you gotta make sure that the, the thing is complete so you can close it when it' s complete, and I think everybody needs to understand that. DON BRANHAM: So the, the projection right now, though, is on the ten to eighteen months, is that, is that right? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: That's what the projection is, yes. (Inaudible comments by female. ) DON BRANHAM: Well, I, I think the Commission's heard of a lot of, ah, statements from homeowners and people ah, around the, ah, Erie area, including myself, that, ah, ah, we object to this proposal, and I, ah, trust and hope that you wil be, ah, ah, listen to what we ' re saying. It' s not a fa, a factional group, listen, ah, speaking to you here, it' s people that, ah, see a, an ever-increasingly large dump in our own back yard, and you wouldn' t want it in your back yard, and nobody else does, especially if it ' s coming from all around the different counties. Thank you. PAULA RUB.IN: Ah, my name' s Paula Rubin. I 'm a resident of Erie and a member of the Board of Trustees . Ah, I adamantly support the arguments that I 've heard from the residents of Erie today. Ah, I have a few more arguments that are philosophical arguments, rather than anything else. Mr. Carlson mentioned that there' s been a change in attitude in the past five years or so amongst the people in the Town of Erie. Well, I think a few changes in attitude are healthy. It indicates to me a certain open-minded- ness, open-mindedness, ah a certain desire to change one ' s long- standing opinions, and I hope that we're all like that. Ah, I -49- think this change in attitude in Erie generally parallels the change in consciousness that 's going on all over the United States today. You also said, Mr. Carlson, that people were griping about the clo- sure of West Dump, the old dump which was on the Pratt property. Ah, I 'd like to point out that that dump was a forty acre dump, and it was used primarily by locals in the area. This isn 't a, a small, this isn't, the present dump owned by Keirnes, isn 't a small dump, it's a large regional landfill that services people mainly outside of Weld County, and my final argument is that I would appeal to all the people on the Board, to please consider the wishes and desires of the citizens that voted them into office; i.e. , the people in the Town of Erie. I think there' s more at stake here than purely economic considerations. Thank you. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: My name is Charlotte Kramer. I live at 1781 Spruce Drive, outside Erie. I know that you are very familiar with our Comprehensive Plan and I have jotted down a few quotations from it just to remind us all that we do have the same goals, I hope. "Weld County hopes to protect the quality of the environment through control of land use and pollution sources. " That' s on page 73 . Another one: "All uses of land by man are environmentally disruptive. " I think we need to remember that. Just because we have made one mistake and let a dump go on without the supervision that we intended for it to have doesn ' t mean that we can now change our minds as this lady just told us and start trying to correct things. I resent the attitude that now all of a -50- sudden the Erie residents have had a change of heart. That isn't it at all. We would like to correct something that is wrong. "All proposed changes in land use will be supported by an environ- mental impact statement prepared by recognized experts. " Do we have such a statement? This is on page 131 of our Comprehensive Plan. Has such a statement been submitted? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: When it first was opened, yes. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Do we have that here today? CHAIRMAN C . CARLSON: I don 't know. ROD ALLISON: I , it' s not required for this application. I, page 131, of, of the, ah Comprehensive Plan. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Of our Comprehensive Plan? ROD ALLISON: Right. I think the part of the plan that applies to this development is, is the plan listed, uh is part of the plan that' s, that is listed under the Agricultural Policies of the County. Uh, CHARLOTTE KRAMER: If you would check on that, I 'd appreciate it. ROD ALLISON: Sure, Chapter, it' s Chapter three, page 29, etcetera sequence CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Well, I think we should certainly all be cam, be concerned about the environmental impact of this parti- cular dump. ROD ALLISON: Okay. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Uh, here' s another one. "Weld County has many attributes which make it an attractive location for -51- future development. It offers a rural environment, a clean atmosphere, a fine view of the mountains, and proximity to recreation areas. " Just something to think about. It is the people who must decide what quality of life they desire in this community. Not only for the present generation, but for our future generations as well. We come here today. We are the people. You are to make ah, a judgment in favor of the people. This quality is what we ' re concerned about, and I think that when we have greedy, self-serving objectives by certain, ah, individuals who are mainly concerned in revenue, and not in open- ing a dump, and not in making sure that this present dump is closed, I don' t think that anyone here really wants to see this present dump closed--if it's maintained properly. I think that we, we really feel that it does not need to be extended to such an ex- tent that it' s impossible for people to live around it. Now we talk about dust and trucks going back and forth; I personally have seen these truck also. They are going in excess of sixty miles an hour. You' re shaking your head, Mr. Carlson, why is that? COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: I 've driven trucks before, and it' s just no way you can travel with a loaded truck that fast. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: I 'm sorry, the, the speed limit, oh it wasn't loaded. This is when they come out. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: I still don 't believe it. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Forty-five miles an hour along Road 7. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Did, did you clock that? CHARLOTTE KRAMER: They did not stop at -52- COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Did you follow that truck? Did you CHARLOTTE KRAMER: I followed the truck and I didn't want to exceed the speed limit any further than fifty. I could not catch the truck. It, it did not stop at two stop signs. One at the, the intersection of Road 7 and 6, and another at Highway 7 and 6, did not stop at either of those stop signs. Because I said to my children, "That' s okay. When we come to the stop sign, we' ll get the license plate. " I fully- intended to report that truck. By the time we got to the intersection, the truck was gone because it didn' t stop. Now you can shake your head all you want, but I saw that. Ah, I, I have some similar questions as to some of the other people. Ah, about the access roads , I 'd like to know, too, who is responsible for the people who come to the dump and then decide not to pay the charge and dump their load along the road- way. There is trash all along Road 5, al, along Road 8 . Now it seems to me that, that their intention possibly was to get it to the dump, but we, it' s pure conjecture on my part, but then it never gets there. So we have this trash along the road. Now is that the County' s responsiblity to pick that up? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Nope. That ' s a dilemma that we are working on in the County. That ' s something that we 've been concerned with. That' s something we 're working on right now, the, the, the County Attorney ' s working on it, John has been, ah, very diligent to following it through. Ah, if you ever find anybody -53- doing that, we want the report. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: No, I 've never seen anyone. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: And we need it. And I want to admonish anybody, if you see anybody dumping trash along the road- way in any part of this County, we need the license plate, we need the, the, we need some personal contact with you and the Sheriff' s Department and us and we will prosecute. Okay? CHARLOTTE KRAMER: I 'm happy to know that, but I have not frequently seen them dumping their. trash there. I only see it when they're gone. Thank you. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: What we need on that is a personal identification of the person. We've tried to prosecute in the past. You get the ah, identification of the vehicle, the license plates and you have a description of the vehicle, we contact those people and we can' t prove, unless we have a positive identification of the person, actually dumping that, so anybody that sees this going on, try and get a description of the person where you can identify him and please let us know. Ah, I got an area in the, right close to my place that they are dumping all the time, and I would love to catch someone, and we need to, as citizens , try to watch this, but that' s what we do need. We need a physical identification where you can identify and say, "yes, that is the person that dumped" , and then we can maybe prosecute 'em. We need to do this. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Is there any way that we can leave the existing forty acre dump open and use it primarily for Weld County? Is there, is there some reason why we have to open it up to the other counties? -54- CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Nope. There' s no way we can do that. MR. ANSON: There ' s no way you can limit it to Weld County. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Open that up for just--that' s according to State statute. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: What is the State statute? I 'm sorry. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: When you open a dump, you can' t open it just to certain people. It' s a public, it ' s a public facility. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: So then should we be dealing with this on a State level? Is that what you're saying? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: I don't think you'd get anywhere there. But, if you want to try, fine. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Well if that' s a State statute, then we have no way to CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Well, that' s just one of the things that, you, whenever you open up a public facility you can- not stop the public from attending it, or, ah, bringing stuff into it. There ' s no way you can do that. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Yes. The lady behind you, you've already spoken once. LYNN PETERSON: My name is Lynn Peterson. I live on Road 5. We are concerned for the health and welfare of those people living in the Town of Erie, Erie Air Park, and the sur- rounding area. We are also very concerned with the increased -55- traf, truck traffic traveling to and from the dump on Road 5 past our subdivision. Most of the trucks are traveling well over the posted speed limit and pose a definite threat to our children and our animals. This traffic has greatly increased over the pa, ah, excuse me, last few months. To allow the expansion of this land- fill will create many problems to the residents of this part of the County. And to continue, and continue to destroy our quality of life. We are asking you to start preserving and protecting the lives and property of Southwest Weld County. My children have to travel on Road 5 to get from our house to the school bus, from our house to ride their bikes, from our house to go anywhere in the subdivision, and those trucks are really posing a problem. Thank you. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay. Yes? KATHY MEADOR: Me? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Yeah, yeah, on, ah, on these few comments, keep 'em brief. KATHY MEADOR: All right. I just wanted to ask y'all a question. Do any of y' all live overlooking a dump? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: No, I live COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: I don't overlook a private one, but it' s a mile away. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: I live between two feedlots. You want to buy, you want to trade me? KATHY MEADOR: Pardon? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: You want to trade me? -56- KATHY MEADOR: I might, depends on what your house is worth, compared to mine. (Laughter) COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Pretty nice. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: The dump that I live by is illegal, or people are using as a dump and I don't, ah, it was controlled KATHY MEADOR: You asked us, ah, why we can't find the people that are dumping on the highway. This dump is open twenty- four hours a day, six days a week, ah, anybody can dump along the roads. There' s very few of us who are out at three o 'clock in the morning. Another point, it is impossible for them to police what ' s going in at three o'clock in the morning. We were there at six o' clock and there were trucks coming out of the dump. We were there at daybreak. You, you can' t properly police it. You all say you've been down there, but how many times? You don' t live down there. What we' re asking, we 've all come up here, we've been up here two days in a row, and countless other times, we're asking you to represent us. We' re not asking you to represent the Keirnes. They are making their living from this stuff. We aren't. This is where we live, and we've taken the money that we make from our living and put it in our community, and we're asking you to repre- sent us. And I would like to fi, just find out if there' s anybody here from our community that supports this dump. So far no one ' s come forward other than the people who are going to make money -57- from it. We just want you to listen to us and take what we 've said, we've proved they' re not in compliance and we want you to represent us. (Applause) JOHN MAZINNI : Okay, my name is John Mazzini. I 'm also a councilman from Erie. Ah, I don' t really want to address our interpretation, and our view of whether this activity is actually compatible with our reason. I think the realities of living down there, obviously indicates to us that it' s not. But I would like to address one of the questions that has been raised here several times, and I think it may be the perspective that is at the heart of what this dilemma and question is for all of us. And that is the question that was raised by Norm, ah, halfway through the dis- cussion in terms of the Town of Erie, all of a sudden changing position relative to the ah, idea of having the dump out there. I think initially the townspeople went along with the County idea that, that was created in the early seventies in terms of the County themselves having this need within the area. For the first few years, I think, that is what the activity at this, at this site was. You had a, a very small portion, a rural portion of Weld County that was using this site, for their disposal needs . I think the reason that the people have changed positions on this usage, and I think it' s a, a tremendous switch that, that the people have made on it, is the fact that we' re troubled considerably by the regional implications that are there now. It' s no longer a southwestern Weld disposal site; it' s a metropolitan county, or -58- counties, disposal site. There' s, there 's a tremendous change there, and there' s, there's really two ways that I think we can address it--the town and also the County. If the County is, is still looking at dumping, finding a site and dumping, dumping as a solution to this need, this, this need by population, then I think that you should follow the lines that you, you started with your ah, ah, the southern tier ambulance, ah, district that you're trying to create. I think that you should find a site that is much more centrally located within the southern tier of the County, which also is not cost effective for the, the trash haulers from Boulder County or Adams County, or, or some of the inner city counties to haul to. You can again get back to the county concept as opposed to being a metropolitan, a large metropolitan ah, ah, type of dump site. And the second thing is that, overall, I think that the entire front range in which at least our portion of Weld County is a part of, maybe that the more rural, northern areas of Weld County is not, but this is, this is a, a need that is being borne now by a very sizable population within the metropolitan front-range counties. And there has got to be some group, whether it' s a town, whether it' s a county, or, or whether it' s state legislators, but someone has got to deal with that problem. There has got to be a better way of dealing with it other than finding or designat- ing a site somewhere else. You know someone has got to start doing that. Boulder County is started, you know I would like to see our Commissioners work along the same lines--contact Boulder -59- County and see what other options are available to us. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: What did they find? What did they come up with? JOHN MAZZINI : Boulder County, I think, is, is really taking a lead. They're looking at some sort of energy conversion. Ah, they're getting in at the ground floor, but you know CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: They haven't found it yet JOHN MAZZINI : But you've CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: You know what they've done? They've closed their dumps and they, then they JOHN MAZZINI : The point, the point is CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: pointed toward, towards us JOHN MAZZINI : Yeah, the sad thing, the sad thing there, Chuck, two things FEMALE IN BACKGROUND: And you let 'em. You let 'em. JOHN MAZZINI : One, they're, at least willing to address • it. Okay, are we, Weld County, willing to address it? And the second thing is that if they are pointing it toward us, is that what our rule is, we' re worried about what we can do to help them. You know, I think Gene brought up earlier the fact that if the weather is such that the wetness, water whatever, that this, this trash cannot be covered, that it still is a burden, ah, not to pick the trash up. Personally, I really don't care what sort of a burden it is for the City of Thornton, or Northglenn, or Boulder, or some of the others. I don't think Weld County really needs to worry about what their trash pickup problems are. You know I -60- think that there are other needs that are much more important to Weld County and the Commissioners other than what is good or what isn' t good for Thornton, or, or Northglenn, because bottom line, if they' re having a, a problem with whether the Weld County site is open or not, they can always look in Adams County for one. Thank you. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Byron, did you have some comments? BRAD KEIRNES : Yes, I do. I'm Brad Keirnes. Ah, there are, there' s three or four things that I 'd like to address. Ah, the first one being that, ah, our existing landfill operation is a regional landfill site and it was represented as being such when it was originally designated. Ah, yesterday, in the, ah, Planning Commission hearing, Lee Morrison did present some information and he had researched the record, that it was very clear that the, our present operation was, ah represented as a regional landfill and it does act so now. Ah, the second thing I 'd like to discuss is relative to the photos that you were shown. Ah, and what you saw there was some areas of uncovered refuse, and this was during a period of, or at the end of, a period of very extreme weather con- ditions, in fact it was the wettest March we had had in, ah, the last hundred years, and I did verify that with the Weather Service, and as Commissioner Brantner did say, and, it is our number one objective to remain open and to be able to continue to accept waste. That' s our primary objective because we don' t want it piling up on the streets. And what you do, as soon as possible, as soon as conditions are such to, ah, allow for the operation of equipment to -61- adequately cover the waste, we do so. The third thing I 'd like to discuss is, regards the tank trucks that have been seen visiting our site. Ah, the trucks are carrying, ah wastes collected from sand traps which are utilized by car washes that collect all the sand that comes off your car and prevents these, the sand traps prevents the sand from getting into the sewer systems. We originally began accepting the wastes approx- imately two years ago when the owner of Pumping Technology contacted the Colorado Department of Health and asked them were he could take his waste and he was told that, since the waste was a sludge, that the Erie Landfill site, our site, was permitted to take the waste, and it does state so in our Operations Plan, that we can accept sludges with solid contents greater than twenty percent, and these, we have since verified that all of the wast being delivered to us in the tank trucks does fall in the acceptable category. The fourth point I 'd like to make, and I guess it' s a request for your cooperation, there ' s been numerous comments re- garding the traffic on the roads, access roads to the sites, and ah, we have contacted the Colorado, ah State Patrol, ah, many times in the past, and have asked them to police those roads, and ah, we would request your assistance if it would be possible for the Commission or, the, ah, County to contact the Colorado Highway Patrol and ask that they more closely monitor the traffic on those access roads. And I 'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Brad, there are, yeah, I , I have -62- some questions. Ah, it was brought up about the tires . How are you handling that? BRAD KEIRNES : We're co-disposing of them with the waste. I am not aware of anything in the regulations that state that we cannot accept tires. I wish there were. They present a problem for us. Ah, if we didn' t take them, they'd probably end up in some dry gully someplace else. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: I guess it' s just a problem like everything else, it would be nice, they've tried to recycle these tires and, ah, it ' s just too costly, so I 'm, I 'm, I know, I know that we had the same problem, because it was a problem picking them up. Ah, but I was just curious. You're not handling them in any special way? If you could, you would, I 'm sure. BRAD KEIRNES: No we aren ' t. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Your hours? Are you open twenty- four hours a day? BRAD KEIRNES : Yes, in accordance with our original Operations Plan, ah, we are allowed, we 're allowed to adjust our hours to meet the needs of the users of our site. What we have seen, ah, during the summer months, as I 'm sure you are aware, your waste log doubles which requires the operation of your trucks, ah for additional hours to handle that increase in waste due to, ah the season variation in the generation of wastes, and during this period the needs are greater to allow and compensate for those additional operation hours, ah, for disposal of the waste collected. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Yeah, I know when we had the -63- limited hours we ran into problems because we had to work the, ah, municipal areas, the downtowns, we had to work those in hours when there was a lot of traffic there, and this did create a problem for us. Ah, it was brought up about that fence down, has that been corrected? BRAD KEIRNES : That' s correct, and that was the result of ah, ah, or the recon, reconstruction of the fence was the result of the adverse weather conditions , it ' s just too wet to get around along the site to replace the fence. Since then it has finally dried out and we have replaced all the fence and it is now standing. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: That ' s all I have. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Any other questions of Brad? COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Thank you, Brad. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Yes? MR. DREYFUSS : I 'd just like to make a short comment, ah, , Brad, just on one statment that Brad made. He said that it was too wet to cover the trash, and I think this is really key, 'cause I 'd like to ask 'em, what do they do in states like Pennsylvania, Illi- nois, Ohio, that get considerably more moisture than we do, even compared to the wettest year in a hundred years. And I 'd like to also point out that the garbage trucks were able to get in and dump their trash, and it' s hard for me to believe that a D-9 tractor can' t get over there and cover it. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Nope, you can't push that mud. It don 't work. I know that from personal, personal operations . -64- MR. DREYFUSS : Well, you may not be able to pull a haul blade over, but I think you could pull a, a foot at a time. It' s possible to cover it. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Nope, no way. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: I think you'd just get a big ball, and just have a ball sitting out there, it won ' t spread out. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Just flat won't work.. MR. DREYFUSS : Then why isn't the dump closed? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: You don ' t, you don' t know what you're talking about MR. DREYFUSS : If the trash, I know this, that if the trash is not covered, it 's a hazard. He admitted that the trash was not covered. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: It pushed it down over the edge, but there' s no way you can, you can gather that dirt when it ' s wet. MR. DREYFUSS : Wait, let me make this clear, the trash was not covered: CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: That' s true. MR. DREYFUSS: Brad admitted it. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: That 's true. MR. DREYFUSS : That is out of compliance, according to the regs, CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Naw, come on, get off my back a little bit. You' re just, you' re just pushing something here that' s clear out of common sense. Now, if you use a little common sense and talk about this thing in a common sense manner -65- MR. DREYFUSS : Common CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: maybe we can do something, or talk to one another. MR. DREYFUSS : Common sense dictates to me, that when, ah, when the trash cannot be covered the dump should be closed. Marshall Dump is closed when the wind exceeds a certain limit. BRAD KEIRNES : Forty miles per hour. MR. DREYFUSS: Forty miles an hour, thank you. BRAD KEIRNES: That ' s the law. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: That' s the law and they're closed also. MR. DREYFUSS : Fine. Why can ' t they close when the trash can' t be covered? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON : I don 't MR. DREYFUSS : Isn' t that, is that, excuse me ? FEMALE IN BACKGROUND: Sounds good to me. MR. DREYFUSS : Is that the regulations or not, that the trash has to be covered daily? COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Is that correct, Brad? That the trash is covered daily? UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That' s what the regulations state. (INAUDIBLE--SEVERAL SPEAKING AT ONCE) BRAD KEIRNES : No, it doesn' t state that, it stated it has to be covered on a regular basis. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: That 's right. MR. DREYFUSS : Was it covered on a regular basis? -66- BRAD KEIRNES : What? MR. DREYFUSS : Even when you weren' t able to cover it? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: All right, now that' s enough. You're badgering, none of this, that' s getting clear out of hand. Yes, ma' am. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Could I just have an answer CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Come on up CHARLOTTE KRAMER: to my questions that I asked you a lit- tle while ago. Did you find it? ROD ALLISON: Well, certainly, ah, this, this is an Agricultural Zoned District and the, ah Comprehensive Land Use Plan, ah, that applies, the policies that apply are listed in the agricultural section of the Comp Plan, which is page 29 . I , I don't know what part of the Comp Plan that, that you are refer- encing. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Okay, let me, let me tell you. It' s • in the Summary and Conclusion ROD ALLISON: Okay CHARLOTTE KRAMER: And it is broken down,, agricultural, urban development, residential, and conmiercail, industrial, water we get over here to environmental protection, which I am assuming now is referring back to the entire book. ROD ALLISON: Well, CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Cause this is in the conclusion section. And this is where, this states, "all proposed changes in land will be supported by an envenermen, environmental impact -67- statement prepared by recognized experts" . All I want to see is the statement. ROD ALLISON: No, it' s it' s not required, it' s it ' s a CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Well, then, why is it printed here? • ROD ALLISON: This is, well, again I think. you're mis- interpreting the, ah, Comprehensive Plan. The, the material, ah, that' s required for this type of use is, is a Use by Special Review application and also, since it is part of, it is this use does come under the, ah, Solid Waste Disposal Regulation Act it also requires a Certificate of Designation. It has to meet the criteria of the Use by Special Review application materials and the criteria outlined by the State in the Solid Waste Regulation A, Act. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Okay, I think I understand what you mean by Special Review. ROD ALLISON: And also, ah, the, we, we review it in terms of the Comprehensive Plan according to the agricultural policies set up in the Comp Plan. It' s, it' s a use that is allowed with a Use by Special Review in an Agricultural Zone District. Those are the policies that we reviewed the case on. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: But, this, this part does not limit just to Agriculture. I ROS ALLISON : Ah, still I , I just, I don't see how you CHARLOTTE KRAMER: This is the summary and conclusion for the entire book. ROD ALLISON: Okay, I understand. -68- CHARLOTTE KRAMER: So if this is wrong, then maybe we'd better change it. Does anybody here, are you familiar with this? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: You'd have to talk to, ah, I re, I, I didn't get in on the very en, end of it, any part of thing so • I can' t comment. CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Well, I don' t think. You didn't get in on what? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON : I can' t comment on that, 'cause I don' t really know. I wouldn't, ah, the CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Well, then, must we proceed then, ah, when, ah, I mean it, it' s right here. You want to see it? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON : So what' s your comment on that, Russ? MR. ANSON: I , think one of the things you have to look at is the Comprehensive Plan is a guideline. The actual regula- tions itself is contained within the Ordinance. We have to follow the Ordinance. The Board of County Commissioners have to specifi- cally follow all the requirements of the Ordinance as well as the applicant. The applicant has to go through each one of the re- quirements for submittals for proving their case, presenting all their evidence at this hearing that is in the, ah Ordinance itself. The, ah, Comprehensive Plan, which we have right there, is merely a, a guideline that is to be used in developing the Ordinance, but it' s not CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Well, if we 're not going to use these things, then we might as well just burn it up, hadn't we? MR. ANSON: Well, -69- ROD ALLISON: I think we have CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Is it any good at all? MR. ANSON: The copy of the plan, it' s something that has to be updated from time to time to follow whatever the present needs are, and CHARLOTTE KRAMER: Well, I 'm very disappointed that none of you seems to be familiar with this, with, with this parti- cular section in here, and then, to say that we don't have to do that, we' re going to follow some other regulations. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON : Well, yes , what he' s saying is that that is only a guideline, we have another book that same thickness that says, that says Zoning Ordinance on it, and that ' s where CHARLOTTE KRAMER: And it seems to me that we definitely need some guidelines here. Otherwise we wouldn' t all be here debating this issue. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON : We're using the guidelines, we' re using those guidelines. FEMALE VOICE IN AUDIENCE: (Inaudible) CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: One more question, and then we 're gonna call it closed. (Comments from audience) No, no, you've got to come up. KATHY MEADOR: Did you say that, ah, the stuff from Pump- ing Technology was, ah, considered a sludge? BRAD KEIRNES : That' s correct. KATHY MEADOR: Okay, it says, what are these, Regulations -70- for Solid Waste Disposal, Section 2 . 2 .12 , "sludges shall not be co- disposed with other solid wastes at a working place of sanitary landfills without approval from the County Board of Commissioners and the Department" . Did you give that? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Well, he got approval from the, he got approval from the State, ah, Health Department and that's KATHY MEADOR: Did he get it from y'all? COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: That ' s sufficient. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: From the State Health and we have to follow their KATHY MEADOR: It didn't say and/or, it says and CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Listen, they, we have to follow their rules and regulations, we don't have any choice. KATHY MEADOR: But, but I 'm asking if, did you give your approval? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: I don't know. That was probably before us. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: I don' t, we don't have to. I think there' s one thing KATHY MEADOR: That' s not what it says. BRAD KEIRNES : I could speak to that. In our original Operations Plan it does say that we can accept sludges, and that' s when the approval was given by the State, upon their review, review of that plan, and also when the Certificate of Designation was granted. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: By the County Commissioners at the time of the okay. Okay? -71- KATHY MEADOR: When you, is Mr. Noack here? BRAD KEIRNES: Yes, he is. KATHY MEADOR: Where is he? Why was he helping you get a health per, ah, a permit to dump if, if you didn 't need it? If • it wasn't considered (inaudible) BRAD KEIRNES : What we've done. What was your question again? KATHY MEADOR: I want to know why he told me in February that he was helping you obtain a permit for accepting this stuff from Pumping Technology, if in fact you didn't need a permit. BRAD KEIRNES : What we've KATHY MEADOR: This is what he told me. BRAD KEIRNES : We met with the State Department of Health last week and what we are presently working on with them I think was what Mr. Noack was referring to, is we're developing, ah, a document that will outline the handling, during the past two years we've been experimenting with, ah different techniques of disposal of these wastes and have arrived at, ah, land spreading in, the, on, over virgin cover material as the means of disposal, and what we are in the process of developing, ah, with our consultants and the State, which will be submitted to them for their review, ah, as well as the County Health Department is a document that will outline all the handling procedures for this specific type of waste. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay, thank you. Yes , sir. MR. NOACK: My name ' s Ned Noack. I work with the Waste -72- Management Division, at the Colorado Health Department. Ah, in regards to the Pratt property proposal, ah, the proposal that we reviewed and sent you a letter on, dated March 1 , ah, commented to our opinion that the Pratt property site could be operated as a landfill, ah, and still protect the public health of surrounding residents of Weld County. Ah, in regards to the existing Erie landfill, ah, it was originally designated in 1979 , included in that Designation were special wastes-like sludges with percents solid greater than twenty percent, tires were included in the original Designation proposal that was approved by the State at the time, and by the Weld County Commissioners . The sludges in question, the Pumping Technology sludges, have been verified by testing to have a solids content of greater than twenty percent. (Comment in audience. ) Excuse me? KATHY MEADOR: Why did you wait two years? Why did you just do it in the last couple of months? COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: He said it was done in 1979 , maam. KATHY MEADOR: No. He' s saying that they just now verified it. He told me in February that it had a content of less than twenty percent. MR. NOACK: When I was out there in September of 79 , of 82 , based on visual inspection of the waste they were applying on that day, and that was a set up, ah, a test, set up demonstration, ah, it appeared that the solid content was less than twenty percent, but when you analyze those wastes according to acceptable procedures, -73- it turns out that in fact, the solid content is greater than twenty percent, and that you're left with a residue which, ah, on that day in particular, applied to a covered surface, not to the working face of the landfill, but to a covered surface of soil, ah, soaked into • that soil about one-quarter inch, and essentially no runoff left the area on that day. So we required, after that inspection, we, we wrote a letter that said, provide us with the documentation. Now the documentation came forth, you know, last week, but that is what we've been doing. We 've said provide us with the documentation that it is non-hazardous and provide us with the documentation that it is acceptable per your original plan. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay. MR. NOACK: Any, any questions on the letter that we wrote on March 1? CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Any questions? MR. NOACK: Or any other questions that I can answer. Oh, I might also add in regards to our, ah inspection procedure. Ah, it was stated that ah, ah, well, I , I will state that, ah, at the last inspection, last formal inspection facility was in September of last year, ah, we have inspected it one to two times per year since the facility opened in 1980. Ah, where ever possible, we rely on the help that the local health department, in this case Weld County Health Department, can provide us with inspection. But it nowhere says in the Statute or the Regulations that the Weld County Health Department is mandated to perform those inspections for us. And, ah, so it' s, it' s a co-operative effort between Weld -74- County Health and, and our Health. Department. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay. Thank you. I think we 've about exhausted all the pros and cons. Is there any questions amongst the Board? Any comments on the legal part of it, Russ? MR. ANSON: Ah, no, ah, I think, ah, when we first started I outlined some of the requirements that are in the Zoning Ordin- ance for Use by Special Review, and also there are additional re- quirements, some of them overlapping, in the Certificate of Desig- nation requirements of the Statutes, and in making your decision, then basically you should be guided by those, those statements. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay. In view of no other com- ments we, this Chair' s open for a motion. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Do you need two different motions? MR. ANSON: No. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: So one for the MR. ANSON: Ah. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: I don't know if we need two different motions, one for the Special Review CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: It' s a Use by Special Review and Certificate of Designation for a Sanitary Landfill. MR. ANSON: The, ah, Planning, what did the Planning Commission do, did they include them both in one motion, is that correct? ROD ALLISON: We went in--that' s correct. That is correct. BRAD KEIRNES: Yes, they sure did. MR. ANSON: Okay, basically if you wish to do so, then -75- you could, ah, you have a recommendation before you from the Plan- pint Commission, and ah, you could base upon that recommendation, when one motion includes both items. (Tape change, Tape #83-41) CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: This is a tough decision, it really is, cause we do, we try to represent all the people, we try to represent what' s best for our County, what' s best for the majority, and I guess sometimes some people have to lose. (Murmur- ing from audience) But I 'm as concerned as about anyone as about the environment. And I 've been involved with landfills for a long time. I started in the trash business in 1966 . At that time I had my own dump. It was not a landfill. There were little dumps all over the country. And it' s real tough to have that type of a , an environment. You can' t police it, it' s, ah, impossible to control. And I think that what has transpired is that, ah, in 19 , I think, 68 , the County contracted with an individual to run all of the county dumps. And that ' s when they become landfills. And Earl Moffat started Weld County Landfill. He started down ah, east of Evans and he ran, they were using, ah, a lot of sand for cover, out of the river, there were some concerns about the leaching into the river. He moved, ah, by Milliken. He had a landfill at Mill, at Windsor, he had one at Eaton, and I think he had one down south around Keenesburg someplace. He sold out to Bradding and Ferris, they improved a little bit. The rules and regulations were becoming more astringent. Bradding at first sold, Bradding and Ferris sold -76- to a manager that was then working for them, and there were some problems again. I 'm not sure when the Keirnes bought the landfill, how, how long ago, but I was hauling trash to all of these people and there ' s been nothing but a continual improvement that I per- sonally experienced. There have been problems, there 've been wind problems, there 've been dirt problems , but they have, it' s been my opinion and my observation that they have tried diligently to improve these things, and where there were problems, they did their best to overcome them. I ' ll agree, with our enviroment there ' s a lot of prob- lems with landfills, and they have tried everything all over. I 've been to a lot of conventions, I 've been to, when I travel I would go to different experimental situations where they were try- ing to, ah, dispose of wastes. They've dumped, a, in your East Coast, New York, and all of those, they were dumping at sea, and that created environmentalproblems. I visited a site in San Diego, California they were trying to dispose of the trash with lasers. It would completely destroy it, but it was so costly, tha, and they couldn' t handle solid waste in any volume at all. •They have tried recycling everywhere, we've tried it here in Greeley. We would segregate the trash, we would haul them in different trucks, ah, sometimes there' s a market for cardboard, sometimes for glass, and then you don' t have a market, so then you create another prob- lem, you create another health hazard when you start stockpiling the glass, or the iron, or the cardboard, waiting for the market to improve so you can eas, at least come up with a break-even -77- situation. I don't think there is any place that is, where re- cycling has been a cost-effective, ah, type thing. Boulder went to, ah, grinding, they tried to recycle. Pueblo, they put in two grinders, they' re trying to recycle. All of these have to be sub, ah, subsidized to a great amount of money. They tried baling, putting the, ah, solid waste into bales, and, but they still had to be buried. Monfort tried, ah, converting waste manument to energy, Coors, that' s just a couple of them, just comes off the top of my head, and all of these have failed in one manner or another, whether it was so costly to do it, or they just couldn 't make it work. And I guess I can sympathize with you that, not in my back yard. (laughter) The landfill is there, the old, ah, the area that they're proposing to extend onto, ah, it' s my understand- ing it' ll be ten to eighteen months to which will improve that area, so they would be cleaning up a site, and, Mr. Chairman, I guess that with a whole lot of difficulty, I am going to move that • we approve the, what ? COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON : Certificate of Designation and COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Certificate of Designation COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Sanitary landfill expansion COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: and the Special, Use by Special Review Permit. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: I would second that motion, ah. I think it' s imperative that we properly close this, ah, I 'm sure that when this landfill is, ah, used up and reclaimed it would make a heck of a nice golf course. -78- KATHY MEADOR: A real nice what? I couldn' t hear you. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Make a real, real nice golf course when it' s completely finished. MALE VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: No water. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON : You don' t need water for a golf course. KATHY MEADOR: Obviously you don't read the paper. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay. Any other comments? It' s been moved by Gene, seconded by Norm, that we approve the Special Use Permit, by and Certificate of Designation of a Sanitary Land- fill for the Keirnes ' operation, Colorado Landfill, Incorporated. Is there any discussion? Any comments? MR. ANSON: Okay, some of the things that you may want to discuss, and, ah, I don't know whether, I wasn' t here during the whole hearing, whether or not some of these items came out, but a couple of things that are required to be used in your decision, and I, there' s been a lot of discussion throughout the hearing on the effect that this site may have on surrounding property is one of the considerations that you have, and whether or not the appli- cant can minimize those effects by any conditions that might be placed upon the Use by Special Review and what his track record has been in the past, the ability of the applicant to comply with the health standards, and the recommendations of the Health Department, and whether or not this fits within the Comprehensive Plan, and overall compatibility with this area, and whether or not it fits within this Zone District, which is the "A" Agricultural Zone -79- District, so th, in general those are some of the items that, ah CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON : Russ, I , I think that MR. ANSON: generally goes into the decision CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: a lot of these things were brought up and a lot of these things are considered in the decision. I think that, ah, the Keirnes have just, have exhibited exceptional conduct, in, in taking care of their landfill, as, as, ah, they have been noted by people throughout the State and throughout the western half of the United States of their concern and their quality of the running a landfill. I think that has been designated and note, and noted. Ah, I think that we, they probably do have a problem when, when weather gets tough, and I want to try to extend to them that when weather' s tough, why they, do the best you can, that, that' s all we can ask. Ah, we, I know that you can 't roll mud over that stuff, it just don't work, but I , I do know that the minute the ground dries out, it needs to be filled and it needs to be covered, and we all, we all understand that. I think, ah, this is the part that we' re doing today is just allowing them to clean up an old dump that' s been an eyesore for quite some time, ah, allows them to clean it up and, and, get it back up to the level with, and where it' ll, ah, meet the le, and, ah, will be more of a, ah, it' ll be more comprehensive for their whole operation to, to do this, and I think that Byron and Brad both, ah, did distr , ah explain that on the, on their charts. So I think the , the things have been covered. I do know that the people are concerned about it. I don' t blame you at all. I, I am also concerned about it. -80- Ah, we sitting on the Board of, of the Planning, before I became a Commissioner, we were very, very concerned about allowing any other county to dump, dump in our county, so when we have a designated landsite, landfill site like this and it' s called regional we have no choice but what to do it, and if I was you, I 'd wish the trucks 'd double up, cause it 'd get filled up twice as fast and then, and you'd be done and over with. Ah, and I real, I really mean it, cause I think that, ah, down the road a piece, I think you've got a site there that, ah, can be a, a benefit to you, rather than a detriment, and I don' t think that' s that far away. Ah, the, the amount of, the amount of refuse that ' s been brought in and, ah, since the site is opened has almost tripled. Maybe, maybe it ' s even four times, I don' t really know. But, ah, if I was you, I 'd , I 'd wish that the thing 'd double now, overnight, because the quicker it gets full, the quicker you get rid of it, and the quicker it' ll be full and you can cover it up and, and have somethin' that ' s a benefit to you. And I really don' t think it ' s that much of a detriment to you because it' s one of the finest landfills in the State of Colorado, and I ' ll guarantee you that. COMMISSIONER N . CARLSON: Mr. Chairman, I believe most of the things Mr. Anson is concerned about is covered in the Oper- ations Standards , and that' s part of the motion. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: That ' s right. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Mr. Chairman, COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Also, I want to think, I want to point out that, ah, County Government has a very frustrating ..... ..._.._._.. -81- role a lot of times because we are only arm of the State, and we can only do what the State statute allows us to do. And one of the things is that we've got to allow the State Health Department to come in and, ah, kinda dictate to us how we dd things, and this is one of them. COMMISSIONER BRANTNER: Ah, I 'm very concerned about one of their, their concerns and that' s the traffic down there, and I think that maybe we ought to go on record as seeing or to attempt to see if we can' t help that situation a :little bit. I know that it' s going to be a problem with manpower. The State Patrol I think, was it a year ago, or two years ago, the State cut forty men off of their, ah, staff, but I would like to go on record of doing what we can as far as our Sheriff ' s Office or the State Patrol, and see if we can' t control that a little bit more. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON : I think the Keirnes are also con- cerned about that operation, and I think they're also working to • - ward an end of that, too, and, ah, ah, because they have conversed with us, as county officials, and, ah, that is of, and has been a concern and, and it will be worked on. Any other comments? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I 'd like to make a comment or two. First of all, to the people who came and have been here, I know at least two days and longer that that, ah, I want you to know that I personally appreciate your participation and your comments, and I want you also to know that I listened to what you said. I am recently sensitized to the difficulties of presenting an argument and trying to be heard, and I , I made every -82- effort to listen to what you said and to analyze and consider your arguments and, your feelings. I think the important thing that I 've tried to keep in my mind throughout this hearing is that we are discussing, ah, a Use by Special Review for a certain piece of property. We are not, and we' re not, discussing the existing opera- tion. And yet I think what I hear from you people is a frustration with the land use that already exists, and I recognize that frustra- tion, and I would say to you, number one, that I have a good deal of sympathy for your concerns with it/ and number two, that I think your efforts are not in vain in sensitizing us to be aware of the kinds of land use decisions we make in the future and how they will impact our communities, and we are sens, sensitive to that, and I assure you that those things have not gone unheard. I cannot, however, allow those arguments to sway my de- cision with regards to this parcel that we are at, talking about, the, the Pratt landfill, and the arguments that were made by the petitioners regarding the reasons for doing that make sense to me. You' re looking at, and your frustration is, that you're looking at a process that' s going on for a number of years and will continue to. We are making a decision on a process that' s going to last for ten to eighteen months. And I, I feel that that, that decision has to be based on whether that' s a good use of that land, and whether it will ultimately bring benefit, and, and my feeling is that it will. Ah, as for those reasons, I , I 'm just, I guess, announcing that I will, I will vote for the motion, ah, but that I, I did, in fact, hear what you had to say and I, I, ah, I hope -83- we will be sensitive to future land use decisions in your area . Ah, I guess that's all I have to say. COMMISSIONER N. CARLSON: Mr. Chairman, I I guess I prob- ably should apologize for some of the statementsI made, but it 's probably not a very good day for this Board of County Commissioners after Ci, Greeley City Council turned down our, ah, Ambulance Tax District last night and that leaves us very frustrated today, so this probably wasn' t a very good day for us, period. COMMISSIONER MARTIN: I 'd like to say a few words. I think that, I think these folks that came up here should be high- ly complimented for the way they conducted themselves today, be- cause I know that this is an extremely emotional thing for them. And I , I think that they need to be highly com, complimented, ah, for, for the way they conducted themselves. I, ah, I 'm your Com- missioner, I 'm in your district and, and I 'm supposed to hear what they say, and I 'm supposed to represent these people. And, and, how I hope that I do. And, if, if I 'd have been here when that location was picked for landfill, I 'm not too sure I 'd been in favor of it, because I don ' t think it' s very centrally located, I think it' s in the extreme part of the County. I , it poses people, problems to the people in Erie because of the, ah, of the trash being hauled in, but on the other hand it poses problems to people, ah, on the extreme other side of the County that has to haul their trash so far to get there. I , I think, ah, I have talked to Ron Stodder (spelling questionable) and some different people who are involved in this type thing with the State and they tell me that, -84- ah, there' s no danger from the, the water pollution, that fro, from the environmental standpoint, it' s a good place to have a dump. I think from ah, ah, a social standpoint, ah, ah, it' s probably a poor place to have a dump, but we 're not here today to decide whether we should put a dump there or not, the dump' s already there. We're just here to decide whether to, ah, ah, to let 'em expand this facility a little bit or not. And, ah, I guess I 've, I 've done more soul searching over this decision than any one that I 've ever had to make up to this point. And, I 'm going to, ah, I 'm gonna vote against this just simply because I , I feel like I have to represent these people that, it' s not that I think that, that what the landfill people are asking for is wrong. I think that it will clean up the dump and I agree with Chuck that if I lived there, I think I 'd want to expedite that thing and get it done just as quick as we possibly could in order to get that thing finished and out, but, ah, I 'm in complete sym • - pathy with the Keirnes' . I think they' re doing an excellent job. I think as far as landfill goes, that they' re tops, but, but I have to state my position on this thing. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Okay. All in favor, say aye. COMMISSIONERS BRANTNER, N. CARLSON, JOHNSON AND CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Aye. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Opposed, no. COMMISSIONER MARTIN: No. CHAIRMAN C. CARLSON: Let the record show that there were four ayes and one no. John Martin was the no vote. We thank everybody for coming. Thank you for your input. Hello