HomeMy WebLinkAbout20012695.tiff 1
2
3 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE RECORDED MEETING
4 CONTINUATION OF
5 PROBABLE CAUSE HEARING FOR USE BY SPECIAL REVIEW#1198
6 FOR AN OIL AND GAS SUPPORT AND SERVICE FACILITY
7 (BRINE WATER DISPOSAL)
8
9
10 CONDUCTED ON JANUARY 29, 2001
11 (PORTION OF TAPE#2001-05)
13
14
15 THOSE PRESENT
16
17 WELD COUNTY COMMISSIONERS:
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19 M.J. GEILE, Chair
20 GLENN VAAD, Pro-Tern
21 WILLIAM H. JERKE
22 ROBERT D. MASDEN
23 DAVID E. LONG
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25 ALSO PRESENT:
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27 BRUCE BARKER, Esq., County Attorney
28 LEE MORRISON, Esq., Assistant County Attorney
29 JULIE CHESTER, Department of Planning Services
30 BETHANY SALZMAN, Department of Planning Services
31 CINDI ETCHEVERRY, Department of Public Health and Environment
32 DON CARROLL, Department of Public Works
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34 SPEAKING TO THE SHOW CAUSE ORDER
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36 JOHN MAHONEY, Esq., appearing on behalf of Enviro-Cycle
37 MIKE CERVI, Enviro-Cycle
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48
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1
2 PROCEEDINGS
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4 CHAIR GEILE: The last item on our agenda this morning is Consider Probable
5 Cause Hearing for Use by Special Review 1198 for an Oil and Gas Support and Service Facility
6 (Brine Water Disposal)for Enviro-Cycle,LLC,c/o Mike Cervi,this was continued from January 15,
7 2001. Julie, are you going to make record this morning? I don't think we need to make record, do
8 we counsel, we just continue, right.
9 MR.BARKER: Yes,you actually,just want to go ahead and ask Julie to bring
10 you up to date on it.
11 CHAIR GEILE: Could you bring us up to date on it, Julie. Thank you.
12 MS. CHESTER: Yes. Good morning, Julie Chester, Department of Planning
13 Services. This ZCH-2000-002. The applicant is Enviro-Cycle, in care of Mr. Mike Cervi. The
14 address of the, of the proposal is, the property is 19094 Weld County Road 40, LaSalle, Colorado,
15 80645,it is located in part of the northwest quarter of the northwest quarter of Section 32,Township
16 4 North, Range 65 West of the 6th P.M., Weld County, Colorado. Just to give you a little bit of
17 background on the case itself, the Special Use Permit did come into the office on July 9, 1998. It
18 was approved by the Board of County Commissioners on May 19, 1999. There have been several
19 issues with noncompliance over a course of time since November 8, 1999, and there's been
20 correspondence back and forth with the applicant and,mainly with the Weld County Department of
21 Public Health and the Environment, as well as Planning Department. The main concern that staff
22 had and was a little bit addressed in the last hearing,is that there are several Development Standards
23 that they are not in compliance with. The fract tank cleaning was not an approved use as part of the
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1 original application. There have been some reports that needed to be filed with the Department of
2 Public Health and Environment that had not been submitted to that department. One of them is a
3 Waste Handling Plan, the other one is an analysis of the under drain. Ah, and then the plat had not
4 been recorded. We met with Mr. Cervi on Friday of last week,which would have been the 26th,and
5 we did pass out a memo to you to explain the meeting that we had and the agreements that Mr. Cervi
6 has agreed to. And, if you'd like I can go through those with you, the main concerning being the
7 fract tank cleaning, Mr. Cervi did agree to stop all fract tank cleaning as of yesterday. And he can
8 address that a little bit further. A lot of the infractions of the Permit were due to that fract tank
9 cleaning, the oil on the pad, and several other issues that were explained more throughly in the
10 previous letters and memos. Mr. Cervi did indicate that it would take him approximately 60 to 90
11 days to clean up the oil and some of the other problems associated with that fract tank cleaning,and
12 also has submitted the Mylar plat which was in accordance with their original plan, that has been
13 submitted, I have given that to the Clerk to the Board, and so that Condition has been met. He did
14 indicate that he would be willing to submit a Waste Management Plan to the Department of Public
15 Health and the Environment and Cindi Etcheverry is here and she can address any of the details of
16 the Public Health and Environment concerns,Don Carroll is here as far as access issues. There were
17 some problems with the hours of operation, their hours of operation are from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. and
18 the Development Standard says that the gates need to be locked outside of those hours. After
19 speaking with Mr. Cervi, he indicated that he'd be willing to shut the gates but he did not want to
20 lock them because the manager is on site and for safety reasons did not want to be locked in. And
21 there are some parts of the facility that continue beyond the 7 to 7. He will also address that further
22 with the Board.
23 The staff recommendation is, since Mr. Cervi did voluntarily decide that he would
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1 quit the fract tank cleaning and has done that, apparently, ah,we would recommend at this point to
2 go ahead and reschedule a Show Cause Hearing for approximately 60 days and give Mr. Cervi the
3 additional time to clean up the property from the fract tank cleaning which is also removing some
4 of the temporary fract tanks on the property and get the additional information to the Department of
5 Planning Services,as well as the Department of Public Health and the Environment. Ah,Mr.Cervi
6 is here today,John Mahoney is also here, and he does have somebody else up here to address some
7 of the concerns of the propane tank that has been making loud booming noises,and can also address
8 that to the public that has had some concerns about the safety issues of that. And if you have any
9 questions, we would be glad to answer any.
10 CHAIR GEILE: Are there any questions of staff? Commissioner Jerke.
11 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you,Mr.Chairman. Julie,do we have someone
12 who makes unannounced inspections or anything like that concerning the operation, the fract tank
13 cleaning process? Just to be sure that it isn't commenced once again?
14 MS.CHESTER: Sure. Ah,Bethany Salzman is our Zoning Compliance Officer,
15 and actually, their Development Standards include language that says the Department of Planning
16 Services, as well as the Health Department, can go onto the property at any time that is reasonable.
17 We have done some surprise inspections in the past and we do plan on doing that,we can do that on
18 a periodic basis throughout the 60 day period if the Board chooses to give Mr. Cervi that amount of
19 time,we'd be glad to go out and do inspections on a periodic basis. But we do do that even just as
20 a part of the permit, and Cindi might want to explain that a little bit further, because some of the
21 Public Health and Environment concerns do, they do go out there a lot more often than Planning
22 does, so she may want to answer that, also.
23 MS. ETCHEVERRY: Yes,I go, this is Cindi Etcheveny from Weld County
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1 Environmental Health. I do go out there, if the facility is in compliance, normally I'll give them a
2 notice that I'll be coming out, but at this point with this facility I do not give notice.
3 CHAIR GEILE: Commissioner Masden.
4 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Mr. Chairman, yes. I was curious if the
5 situation had been rectified with the explosions, the lighting of the separator and treater, `cause I
6 know the,the neighbors were very concerned over those conditions,it was creating health concerns
7 for me, the safety.
8 MS. CHESTER: Apparently, after speaking with the neighbors, they feel that
9 that situation has not been rectified, that there are still some of those explosions occurring on the
10 property. But, like I mentioned earlier, Mr. Cervi did bring an expert in the field, and they can
11 address that, but those are still occurring as far as what the neighbors have indicated to us.
12 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Thank you.
13 CHAIR GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
14 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Just a procedural question of counsel,then. What we,
15 if we, the recommendation of staff, I think I heard a recommendation, it would be 60 days until, if
16 necessary, another Probable Cause, not a Show Cause.
17 MR. BARKER: Is that your recommendation?
18 MS. CHESTER: No, actually, we would recommend going ahead and
19 scheduling a Show Cause Hearing 60 days from, you know, approximately from today. And that
20 way if Mr. Cervi's in compliance in that 60 days we can dismiss the hearing at that time; if he's not
21 then he can come back and you can go forward with the Show Cause Hearing.
22 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And then the purpose of the Probable Cause Hearing
23 that we're having now is to determine,
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1 MS. CHESTER: That there's enough evidence to have a Show Cause Hearing
2 to revoke the Permit.
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. Then,in 60 days,if staff decides,or determines
4 that they have come into compliance,there's not a reason,how does the public have an opportunity
5 to speak to their opinion of whether or not there is compliance?
6 MS. CHESTER: Well, I think, ah, as far as notification, you know, we'd be
7 more than willing to notify them, but I think there are people here from the public today and if we
8 go ahead and set a date today, then they would have notification of when that hearing is. It is still
9 a public hearing that they be able to come and speak
10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So even though your recommendation at that time could
11 be that it's okay,there would be a public hearing and they would have that opportunity? Thank you.
12 MS. CHESTER: Yes.
13 MR.BARKER: It's really,your hearing today is to find out if there is sufficient
14 evidence to show Probable Cause that some of the Development Standards, Conditions, or I guess
15 the terms of the USR, as granted by the Board of County Commissioners previously, are being
16 violated. And that's what then,if you do find a Probable Cause,then you would set it for the Show
17 Cause Hearing to hear evidence regarding that. And if it was taken care of that before that date then
18 it can be dismissed out.
19 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. Thank you.
20 CHAIR GEILE: I would like to make sure I understand you, Julie, you've
21 mentioned that the explosions, Mr. Cervi has said they can be resolved, that you didn't say when
22 they're going to be resolved or, is that something you would rather him to get into.
23 MS. CHESTER: I would probably like his expert to come up and answer that,
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1 because I don't know if it can actually be resolved. If those explosions are a part of a natural
2 process,what he explained to Cindi and I was when air gets sucked down in there,there's,it causes
3 that boom, but it's not a health, safety concern.
4 CHAIR GEILE: So he will be ready to deal with that. The other,I want to make
5 sure I understand, what is fract paint cleaning?
6 MS.CHESTER: Fract tank cleaning? I'll have Cindi address that. I know what
7 it is,but Cindi is the expert, so I'll let her talk about it.
8 CHAIR GEILE: I know we keep talking about these terminologies, but I
9 thought, well maybe I ought to find out,because I'm not sure I know.
10 MS ETCHEVERRY: When they do a work over on a rig,they collect a lot of fluids
11 from the process that's put into large tanks. Approximately 1,000 gallon,500 to 1,000 gallon tanks.
12 This is called fract material, it consists
13 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: 1,000 or 500 barrels?
14 UNKNOWN: Um-hum.
15 MS. ETCHEVERRY: Sorry,I'm still stuck on gallons. It consists largely of
16 liquid,which Mr.Cervi was pumping down hole. But then,another portion of it is fract sand,which,
17 ah, the contents of the tank contain a lot of crude oil, oils, sands, and other type solids. And he
18 would then drain the sands,well they would wash out the inside of the tank,I'm assuming through
19 pressure washing and heat, and drain that on the pad.
20 CHAIR GEILE: Is there any other questions of staff? If not,is Mr.Cervi or his
21 representative in the audience,wishes to address the Board this morning? If you'd give your name
22 and address for the record, please.
23 MR. CERVI: Mike Cervi, Box 169, Sterling, Colorado. I'm here today on behalf
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1 of Enviro-Cycle,which I'm involved in. Julie's discussed all the points that,on this piece of paper
2 that's been brought to our attention, for the last hearing and also by the meeting last Friday
3 afternoon,which Ms. Chester and Ms. Cindi Etcheverry of the Health Department. Today,I would
4 like to state that we've addressed all of these facts with the Health and Planning Department and
5 corrected several of them by the discontinuing of the fract tank cleaning. Which she has explained
6 to you. We're agreeing to stop cleaning these tanks and doing this procedure. If at a given time later
7 one we decide to do this,we would go to the Health Department and the Planning Department and
8 apply for permits for a newly planned use is the explanation of what's happening. (Inaudible)we'll
9 possibly continue to (inaudible) permits been issued. That's a subject right now that we haven't
10 made a decision on.
11 I think today I have three issues of concern I'd like to address which are a concern
12 to the neighbors and also the County of this facility. One of them is the safety of the heater treater,
13 which is a piece of equipment that heats water and oil and is fueled by a propane,by a 30,000 gallon
14 propane tank that we have set on-site. I've asked Mr. Frank Stewart, Weld Propane, to discuss it,
15 he's the one that services it and is familiar with it. I would ask that in a moment, ah, try to address
16 two or three other things would be a concern to the Commissioners and the Planning and Health
17 Department. We would ask at this point that we would get 90 days instead of 60,we agreed to 90
18 (inaudible) 60 originally, but because of the weather factor, such as this week, we feel it may take
19 90,you have to make that decision,but the 90 days involved is this--we have presently on the pad,
20 five temporary fract tanks, these are 500 barrel fract tanks. One of them's a 400 barrel. They are
21 full of what is called waste material that has been generated off E and P water waste. E and P waste
22 and water is exploration and production water that's been brought to this facility, we're permitted
23 to take down hole. When they bring these solids in with this water, which is a normal thing when
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1 they work a well or loading,pumping,or fracting,you will get a certain amount of recovery of sand,
2 coming back with the water. All disposables have to confront these solids coming(inaudible)their
3 facilities. We've taken temporary tanks, set them out and filled some of them with it. Before we
4 take this solids to CSI or Waste Management,which is a approved facility that takes the facility,or
5 takes the waste of other facilities similar to this, we want to skim the oil off of it. We're putting
6 (inaudible) and circulating it on this pad, and before the (inaudible)you need a certain amount of
7 favorable weather to do this. Which we haven't had in the month of December or January, we've
8 had one of our colder seasons(inaudible). But we feel it takes 90 days to do that,because we're also
9 taking fluids all the time, so we're adding a few to them, so I guess it's not something you just
10 automatically get rid of and don't have any more of. Number two, the hours of operation has been
11 a concern to the Health and Planning Department, I would address this as I go. The hours of
12 operation are 7 to 7. We've agreed to that. In this operation,we call it receiving the trucks,between
13 7 and 7, fract trucks, or water trucks, or whatever (inaudible) brine water and fract water. Brine
14 water and fracts water are basically the same,when you fract one,you put fresh water back into the
15 hole,push the formation apart, pull that water back out, and put it in tanks and take it to disposal.
16 That water is now became the same type of water as you'll continually get out of this well as you
17 produce it. All the wells along the Front Range have a portion of water, and as time goes on, the
18 more production is given,the more water will be obtained out of these wells,it's just a natural thing
19 happening,happening down below. We want to take the water between 7 and 7 with the trucks. We
20 need to run our tri-plex pump,which is a large pump that pushes the water 10,000 feet down below.
21 This pump runs continuously on a 24-hour basis. To say we're not operating or are operating, you
22 have to evaluate,is running that pump around the clock operations or is it just a maintenance portion
23 of this facility. So we're asking to abide by the 7 to 7 incoming trucks, but we need to run our
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1 pumps continuously to fill that up with water and put it down below 10,000 feet down. So,we must,
2 I would like to clarify the meaning of operation and continually push the water into the reservoir.
3 The safety factor,the 90 days,and the hours of operation,the stopping of cleaning fract tanks are the
4 main issues that were on this memorandum and at that point I would ask Mr. Stewart to address the
5 propane booming and the propane burning the tank as a safety issue.
6 CHAIR GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
7 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr.Cervi,when we talk about operations,I understand
8 the pump, and that, we'll decide whether that's a maintenance or operating. Now, going on to the
9 heating and circulating process.
10 MR. CERVI: It continues 24 hours. As long as you're moving water down hole,the
11 heating, it's parallel to heating the water and sending it down hole. With the, heating of the water
12 and the pumping of the water are all in this sequence.
13 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay, thank you.
14 CHAIR GEILE: Are there any other questions? Commissioner Jerke?
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you,Mr. Chairman. Mr. Cervi,do you have to
16 keep someone on site to monitor those operations 24 hours a day when you're pumping the water
17 down back deep into the system again?
18 MR. CERVI: Yes, sir. We never run any equipment unless somebody is on site.
19 And, well basically, if you shut down, you can lock the gates and quit. Occasionally we do, it
20 depends on what's happening. I might illustrate, ah, you have two other pumping commercial
21 disposal wells in the area. One north of us,one south of us. They have problems of going to what's
22 called high tank. High tanks means you load all your capacity up with water,you're pumping as fast
23 as you can down hole,but with the amount of water, the drilling, the fracturing, and the operation
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1 of the oil field,which has increased dramatically in the last year,they're all with no reasons,you are
2 running out of space to put this water in the proper spot. When we've taken trucks on our off hours
3 it would be if Conquest(inaudible)they or the other truckers are at high tanks. And we've had them
4 call us and say we have 11 trucks that we can't get down, and they would come to our facility.
5 CHAIR GEILE: Are there any other questions of Mr.Cervi? If not,thank you.
6 If you give your name and address for the record, please, Mr. Stewart.
7 MR. STEWART: Frank Stewart, Weld LP Gas Company, 12570 Weld County
8 Road 34, Platteville. On April 11, 2000, I was contacted by a service man from a major propane
9 company here in the area to look at the treater assembly at Enviro-Cycle,and at that time they were
10 having a time with carbon build up in the burn assembly. I suggested to the serviceman that, ah,in
11 my opinion that they needed to pull the burners and clean them, reassemble them, (inaudible) and
12 readjust them, and most of their problem at the time was they couldn't get good burn characteristic
13 out of the flame. On April 24th I was contacted by Enviro-Cycle to work on the system and at that
14 time found that none of my suggestions had been heeded. And,I proceeded to go ahead and do those
15 corrections, and, ah, at that time, ah, put the burners back into operation, that's what we would
16 normally consider a (inaudible) flame, a nice blue flame, didn't have carbon build up. I was
17 contacted the next day that they were having some popping and loud noise out of the system, so I
18 contacted the manufacturer out of Tulsa and talked to him. They provided initial settings for the
19 burners, ah, which were standard procedures that I had already used the day before, and they said
20 you're just going to have to go ahead and adjust those because of our altitude, we have 22 percent
21 less oxygen, so we have to fine tune those burners for our altitude. These things I did, ah, things
22 continued along, I was ah, not contacted until October, of, ah October 9th, actually, of 2000, that
23 Enviro-Cycle didn't have enough heat to do their processing. So I went out and turned up the
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1 heating on the burners, (inaudible) a variable type burner where we can adjust the heat output from
2 a low to a high BTU output. After doing that, I was contacted about a week later, that the unit was
3 popping and making too much rumbling noise. Which, at that time I understand was outside of the
4 EPA noise limits. So we went in and we,ah,toned down the burners to get rid of that rumbling,and
5 went ahead and adjusted it for burn characteristics (inaudible). As far as the popping, at that time
6 we were having some winds out of the northwest and there's a slight hill there, and that hill creates
7 a,what we call a downdraft. And what that is, essentially, is the wind comes up over the hill and it
8 comes down on the chimney of the burner,creating a pressure situation,where we don't actually get
9 an invection-type current up the chimney like we would normally experience on any kind of a system
10 with a chimney. What's heard there, ah, is when the burner ignites the flame comes out the back,
11 out the front end of the burner where the pilot is,and proceeds to try to go down through the burner
12 assembly, and in the chimney and it encounters that pressure. What happens is the flame will back
13 up into the burner assembly and will ignite at the back side where the propane and the air are mixed
14 in the initial burner. That's what causes the popping sound. And it's not a hazard. It's something
15 that normally you can get a handle on through adjustment of the burners. Normally, I found that
16 each time I went out and changed the BTU burning on these burners that we were(inaudible)about
17 three times out,total,we would have it back into where it wasn't popping. But we do,on occasion,
18 have uplifted it,the downdraft problem,wherever we have(inaudible)the wind out of that direction.
19 I was contacted again on December 8,Enviro-Cycle said,ah,propane's too high,we need to cut back
20 on the amount of heat or we can't afford to run this burner at this rating, so I downsized the orifice
21 reading on that burner assembly and was(inaudible)called back out about a week later,we're having
22 popping, so we adjusted the burners more and was last called out January 24th. Where I was able
23 to adjust it some more and at that point,my observations were minimal noise as far as rumbling,and
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1 I've yet, ah,never hear the burner pop myself In all the trips I've made out there. Any questions?
2 CHAIR GEILE: Commissioner Vaad.
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr. Stewart, did the downdraft, (inaudible) is that
4 creating an atmospheric pressure increase, or is it direct wind down the stack?
5 MR. STEWART: It's an atmospheric pressure.
6 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So diverting the stack wouldn't make any difference.
7 MR. STEWART: No, sir.
8 CHAIR GEILE: Are there any other questions of Mr. Stewart? Commissioner
9 Long?
10 COMMISSIONER LONG: Can a change in the diameter of that or the height, or
11 anything like that
12 MR. STEWART: Essentially, ah, sometimes a height increase will help,
13 sometimes a type of a top can be manufactured,most generally we have this on our furnaces in our
14 homes,that I deal with on a regular basis. Normally,the fall,normally again in the spring when we
15 start to get those winds. We basically make these height adjustments on the chimneys or we put a
16 special top on that tends to take care of that, and adjustments to the burners.
17 CHAIR GEILE: Are there any other questions? If not,thank you,Mr. Stewart.
18 Is there anything else, Mr. Cervi, you wanted to present to the Board this morning before I open it
19 up for public comment. If not, I would open it up for public comment. Is there anyone here this
20 morning that would wish to speak to this, if you would, please come forth and give your name and
21 address and then any comments you'd wish to make to the Commissioners this morning.
22 MR. MACDONALD: Good morning. My name's Brian MacDonald, I live
23 at 18860 Weld County Road 39,just to the west and south of the, Mr. Cervi's whole station there.
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1 I'd like to ask you at this time that the hours stay at 7 to 7 until, with no activity after that. What
2 we're running into is they are accepting trucks after 7:00 o'clock at night, whether they're saying
3 they are or not. And that is an issue of noise for us,and this is my residence, and I,you know,I can
4 understand,you know,they've got work to do,but this is a residence. Also,this gate just being shut
5 and not locked,that's why(inaudible)I guess,but,again,they've had over a year to,a year to adhere
6 to all of these issues and they haven't done it in that time, so I, I don't know what to say about that,
7 and I don't see where it's gonna,just be complied to and just continue on(inaudible)way. So, I'd
8 ask that we just continue with the 7 to 7 absolute, for noise level reasons. The popping noises is a
9 burner, like they say, yet they are coming around and we've still been, experienced that last
10 Wednesday night again, maybe because of the wind, I don't know. That's about all I have to say
11 right now.
12 CHAIR GEILE: Commissioner Vaad, ah, we have a few questions.
13 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Brian,did you,did you hear Mr. Cervi,they agreed to
14 the 7 to 7 as far as
15 MR. MACDONALD: Yeah, but we're talking that they're going to run 24
16 hours,basically with their pump being in their heater treater, and what I'm telling you is that,in the
17 middle of the night you (inaudible) and what not, you do have trucks with their jakes running
18 beyond, you have trucks basically running right outside your window.
19 COMMISSIONER VAAD: But that's what Mr. Cervi said would not happen.
20 There wouldn't be trucks. The pumping would continue.
21 MR. MACDONALD: If we're going by what this letter says of last Friday,
22 that,I understand what you're trying to say,but we have had a problem with this, even after he said
23 it wasn't going to happen before and it did happen.
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1 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay,and I guess what I'm offering to you is that if he
2 agrees to this, there wouldn't be trucks coming. They will be pumping and they have to heat, but,
3 okay, and if he doesn't abide by that, then
4 MR. MACDONALD: Okay. What are the hours of operation, I mean that's
5 just for truck activity, that's all we're talking about.
6 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Well,plus the ongoing things that they do,the pumping
7 and the heating and the circulating, but the trucks would only be 7 to 7
8 MR. MACDONALD: (inaudible) is what you're telling me?
9 COMMISSIONER VAAD: The trucks would stop at 7.
10 MR.MACDONALD: But the heating and the pump,excuse me,the pumping
11 would continue on?
12 COMMISSIONER VAAD: That continues.
13 MR. MACDONALD: Well, I, I don't feel that is acceptable.
14 CHAIR GEILE: There any other questions? Thank you very much. Is there
15 anyone else in the audience that wish, if you, so, come forth and give your name and address, and
16 then make whatever comments you'd like to with the Board.
17 MS. SANTAGATA: My name is Marilee Santagata,I will spell that if you need me
18 to, I live at 18860 County Road 39.
19 CHAIR GEILE: Would you mind spelling that for the record?
20 MS. SANTAGATA: S - A - N- T - A - G - A - T - A. And Marilee is one name,
21 M - A- R - I- L - E - E.
22 CHAIR GEILE: Thank you very much.
23 MS. SANTAGATA: Certainly,I've been there a long time, (inaudible). Ah,as far
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1 as having to have the driveway open,they also have a fire driveway just down a short ways, that is
2 supposed to be unlocked at all times of operation. This is chained and locked down. They don't
3 need to keep their gate unlocked in order to have an access or for the man to come in and out,
4 (inaudible) another driveway, which, it's got a sign on it that says it's supposed to be open at all
5 times of operation. It's not just not opened, it's locked down. So, I thought you'd look into that
6 aspect of the gates being opened or shut. The mini explosions, you call them pops, I feel like you
7 pop a balloon,these are more like shotgun blasts up to a small thunderclap. These are not poppings,
8 these are explosions. And they are happening very often. Enough to make you sit straight up in your
9 bed, I am, would not be mean, I just wanted to clarify; these trucks traffic coming in, 24, 7. No
10 exceptions. I understand they have a business to run, I'd like to ask a question,why would anyone
11 put this kind of an operation, within a hundred foot of a residence, I do not understand that. Our
12 fence line,their fence line is within one hundred feet of our home,not our property,our home. There
13 are two residences there, at the moment we have eight people in these two residences. Why would
14 you put, I can look out the back door and I can see forever,wide open spaces. Why would they do
15 that? I do not understand that. We have a well. Their machines were shaking to the point that we
16 were getting pieces of that well through our faucets. Our pictures were falling off the wall. Our
17 window panes were to the point that we had to put(inaudible)in between,to keep them from rattling
18 so we could sleep at night. I do not understand why is this next to two,not one,two residences,why
19 would that be there? I'm sorry. I also would like to ask you where can I get a copy of this section
20 of this meeting for our own(inaudible).
21 CHAIR GEILE: And an answer to that question, it would be available to you
22 as soon as it's typed up.
23 MS. SANTAGATA: Oh, thank you.
41
1 CHAIR GEILE: Are there any other comments you'd like to make to the Board
2 this morning?
3 MS. SANTAGATA: No, are there any questions?
4 CHAIR GEILE: Thank you very much for coming. Is there anyone else in the
5 audience that would wish to address the Board this morning? If not,I'll close the public hearing part
6 of this. Mr. Cervi, do you or any of your folks here this morning wish to add anything to the
7 proceedings.
8 MR. CERVI: No, sir.
9 CHAIR GEILE: Okay. Thank you. Any other comments from staff?
10 MS. ETCHEVERRY: Just one other comment. On our last hearing,we had
11 spoke that had occurred
12 CHAIR GEILE: Cindi, why don't you give your name,just for the record.
13 MS.ETCHEVERRY: Cindi Etcheverry,Weld County Environmental Health.
14 We'd, ah, on a surprise inspection, I'd came there and found that there'd been a spill. I called Oil
15 and Gas Commission, they didn't know about it. Ah, they'd called Mike Cervi, and yes, indeed
16 there'd been a spill. The spill exceeded the reportable quantities which was,ah,five barrels,this was
17 approximately a ten-barrel spill that happened on January 29th,there and about. In the Oil and Gas
18 Conservation Commission report it said that the spill was caused by breach of discard pipe below
19 the valve on the east side of the heater tank. And, ah,that it appears the operator did not put the heat
20 treat system on circulation for the night,which allowed the heat to build up during the night,which
21 caused the breach. I'd almost believe that this facility was not, or may not be manned at night. Ah,
22 that's my only comments I had.
23 CHAIR GEILE: Any questions? Mr. Jerke.
42
1 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ah, Cindi, when did this
2 happen exactly? January 29th last year?
3 MS. ETCHEVERRY: Yes. I'm sorry, yeah, December 29
4 UNKNOWN: December 29th
5 COMMISSIONER JERKE: December 29th of last year. Okay, thank you.
6 CHAIR GEILE: Thank you. Any other questions? If not, we have a
7 recommendation from staff to schedule the Show Cause Hearing in 60 days, the applicant has
8 requested that that be extended to 90 days,I mean,not the applicant,but the, ah,Enviro-Cycle has.
9 What, excuse me, Commissioner Vaad?
10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I questioned,and my understanding of the effect of the
11 memo dated January 29th today, and it rehearses the conversation that you had last Friday, and you,
12 your paragraphs are numbered number one through number ten and they refer to standards, I guess
13 those are Development Standards,so, and if we accept this as the basis for granting some extension
14 to a Show Cause Hearing, what happens if between now and whatever that date is, that we're not
15 getting compliance with these? `Cause that would be the basis of my moving for the extension,but
16 not if, if things can continue on for 90 days and we're having problems.
17 MR.BARKER: Well,you take that evidence into consideration for Show Cause
18 Hearing. I guess, the thing is, with this hearing, you need to find out, you need to make a
19 determination that there is sufficient evidence that has been presented for the Board to believe that
20 there exists, that with respect to this facility, there is Probable Cause to believe that there are
21 violations of the Standards that are presented,I think there are ten of them in your original letter,ah,
22 that is on your computer. I think out of fairness to the respondent in this proceeding, you need to
23 make certain that you reference those Standards. The evidence that has been presented is not only
43
1 what you heard today,but also what you heard,I think on January 15th,when it was first presented,
2 and then it was continued to today. Now, if the items here,I guess, are sufficient to make it so you
3 don't feel that there is Probable Cause to believe that there are violations of those Standards, then
4 that's where it needs to play in. It may be that you think there is Probable Cause, you believe that
5 there are violations, however, if this is complied with, which is on the second stipulation, if it's
6 complied with,then that obviates the need for the Show Cause Hearing,and that can be considered
7 in, at the Show Cause Hearing.
8 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So then the finding, or one of the possible findings
9 could be that there is Probable Cause to believe that,to an extent,and I'm not sure how to state that,
10 that there have been violations of the ten Standards, as listed on January, well in a memo of
11 December 18,2000,and,therefore,ah,we do find a need for Show Cause Hearing,and then,tell me
12 again about entering these as stipulations, that if these are met, well I guess we just consider those
13 at the time of the Show Cause Hearing.
14 MR. BARKER: That's correct.
15 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr.Chairman,I would move that,that we have found
16 Probable Cause that there has been a violation of the Standards, the ten Standards listed in the
17 December 18th memo and,therefore,request that we have a Show Cause Hearing 90 days from this
18 date, or whatever date is practical, to that end.
19 CHAIR GEILE: There's been a motion by Commissioner Vaad that there is
20 enough evidence to proceed with a Show Cause Hearing scheduled 90 days from today,or whenever
21 is applicable,but close to that 90 days, and that the ten items discussed in the noncompliance letter
22 dated January 29th, from Cindi Etcheverry, Environmental Specialist, will be the basis for that
23 consideration.
44
1 COMMISSIONER VAAD: January, or I,
2 CHAIR GEILE: January 29th.
3 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Well,January 29th is what we'll consider,the January
4 29th memo is what we will consider, it's in the findings of the 10 Standards on the letter dated
5 December 18th that we find that there have been violations.
6 CHAIR GEILE: Okay. Thank you. Is there a second to that motion?
7 COMMISSIONER JERKE: I'll second it.
8 CHAIR GEILE: Motion has been made by Commissioner Vaad, seconded by
9 Commissioner Jerke, ah, counsel, can we consider any additional testimony? Counsel?
10 MR. BARKER: Consider the testimony?
11 CHAIR GEILE: I don't know, we had a hand go up.
12 MR. BARKER: If you'd like to, you could go ahead and do that if it pertains
13 to the motion, it's at the Chair's discretion.
14 CHAIR GEILE: Okay, Mr. Cervi, I would entertain any comments as long as
15 it pertains to what we're doing with the continuation.
16 MR.CERVI: Mike Cervi,Box 169,Sterling,Colorado. (inaudible)this motion, I'm
17 not completely sure of the clarity of it. You are making a motion that you will have a Show Cause
18 Hearing 90 days from now, is that correct?
19 CHAIR GEILE: That's correct?
20 MR. CERVI: Now, if these items, these ten items on this memorandum, are you
21 going by the memorandum of, of January the 29th or you going by memorandum of January the
22 15th?
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: It's, my intent was, that we're only finding the
45
1 Probable Cause based on the ten items of December 18th. And it's my intention, I think you can
2 make a case, and staff has recommended that, if you meet these items, then when we come to the
3 time of the Show Cause Hearing,we'll ah,we will presume that these have been resolved. We will
4 have a Show Cause Hearing,but it maybe the recommendation of the staff at that time that it's been
5 resolved. Particularly if it follows what you've agreed to in this January 29th memo.
6 MR. CERVI: Okay, that has a bit more clarity to it. I am under the understanding
7 that if we can verify and clear up all of these ten items, for the County,or any other issues involved,
8 that in the Show Cause Hearing in 90 days, if they've been all addressed,the Show Cause Hearing
9 can be dismissed.
10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Well, I think that's the conversation about, maybe
11 counsel could talk to that.
12 MR. BARKER: I think that's a determination that you need to make at the
13 Show Cause Hearing; however, if staff believes that all of these have been complied with and staff
14 believes that at this point those violations that they were concerned with December 18th memo have
15 been cleared up, then at that point,we've heard this testimony regarding the compliance and we're
16 satisfied that there is no need to hear any evidence on the Show Cause,that actually those violations
17 have either been taken care of or there are agreements to take care of those for the future. So that
18 would, in essence, you can't, I think what Mr. Cervi may be looking for is that he wouldn't have to
19 prepare for a Show Cause Hearing,but I don't think there is any way to do that, I think you have to
20 just come to the hearing and hear what the results are with compliance with these items.
21 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And I started out, my questioning early on in today's
22 hearing,that I don't wan the neighbors and the other people to feel that we decided without one more
23 opportunity for them, to give us testimony too, but this is what we'll be relying on. This is what I
46
1 will be relying on, if we've resolved these, according to this agreement. Unless something totally
2 new comes up, why,
3 MR. CERVI: That's fair enough, I just want to know the guidelines, so that we
4 adhere all of the standards that we're not adhering to, if we've, adhere to and have corrected them,
5 that will be the end of it unless, (inaudible) I, ah, the gentleman that was up here earlier had talked
6 about trucks coming and going and jake brakes and things, one quick scenario, 39 is the main
7 highway going into LaSalle, we have no control over those trucks after 7,we will not be receiving
8 them at the facility. So, I would hate to think I was here 90 days from now saying we are receiving
9 trucks when they're going up and down that highway. And we won't be.
10 CHAIR GEILE: Or they won't be leaving after 7, is that correct?
11 MR. CERVI: We won't be receiving the water after 7, correct.
12 CHAIR GEILE: Any further discussion? Commissioner Long.
13 COMMISSIONER LONG: Yes,thank you,Mr.,ah,is it true that the back fire gate
14 is locked full time?
15 MR. CERVI: Sir, the LaSalle Fire Protection, who's controlling the, its called an
16 accessory road for fire,have bolt cutters,we've all agreed they would cut,we have four tanks on the
17 site full of water, we're not leaving it unlocked, we can't leave it unlocked, it'd be the same as
18 leaving the place unsecured, it's a road down, it's an accessory road away from the main entrance,
19 they know that,they have bolt cutters,they have condoned the water and fire protection. They,they
20 want that water for other fires and if asked,they can take it. The gate is locked,has been,there's no
21 requirement saying it can't be locked. The front gate is locked in the ingress and egress(inaudible).
22 CHAIR GEILE: Any other questions of Mr. Cervi? If not, we have a motion
23 and a second on the table, is there any further discussion by the Board? Yes, Ma'am.
47
1 MS. CHESTER: I just need to make a point of clarification,the letter that you
2 referred to,December 18th,I believe is the January 3rd letter that Mr. Cervi, it says amended at the
3 top, and it addresses the ten items that were in noncompliance,just so it's on the record, it is the
4 January 3rd letter that was, the letter that Mr. Cervi got from staff.
5 CHAIR GEILE: Let the record show that was Julie Chester that made that
6 statement. Any further discussion? Commissioner Long? Excuse me, Esther?
7 CLERK: (Inaudible)
8 CHAIR GEILE: April 30th? Okay. Commissioner Long?
9 COMMISSIONER LONG: Ah,I'm concerned,too,with the explosions. I didn't
10 know if we could possibly amend, to add a requirement to this to, and I know it's in a, it's not, or
11 it's a science,but anyway,to be able to rectify the explosions by looking at different alternatives as
12 far as extension or increasing of the diameter of the exhaust mechanisms, or something like that to
13 try to address that problem.
14 MR. CERVI: Mike Cervi again. Mr. Stewart and I discussed it, we now presently
15 have a stack that exceeds 20 feet in height, we put a new wall of(inaudible) two inch all the way
16 around it. We've cut it down, we've asked people to monitor it, it now gets down to the question
17 of is an explosion of the lady that's talking this up here earlier,or is it what it is. We've had,we're
18 willing to do any sound checks,willing to go under the EPA sound or whatever, the County sound,
19 there's not a lot we can do about it, I mean, we've been there, I've been there 24 hours a day, I've
20 never recollected anything that came close to a shotgun explosion. We (inaudible) we hear it
21 grumble a little, it's obvious, it's (inaudible), I'm willing to go to the expense of hiring somebody
22 for a 24-hour period to sound monitor. We are not recalling,or any of my employees,the noises and
23 things of a small dynamite blast happening, we just aren't witnessing that.
48
1 CHAIR GEILE: There's a motion and a second. Any further discussion? If not,
2 Esther, would you read roll call,please?
3 CLERK: Robert Masden.
4 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Aye.
5 CLERK: David Long.
6 COMMISSIONER LONG: Yes.
7 CLERK: William Jerke.
8 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Aye.
9 CLERK: Glenn Vaad.
10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Aye.
11 CLERK: Mike Geile.
12 CHAIR GEILE: Aye. Let the record show the motion carried unanimously.
13 That ends all the Planning items we have. This Board stands adjourned. Thank you.
14
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