HomeMy WebLinkAbout20041418 ORIGINAL
Transcript
Morris Quick
and
Mark Holliday
HEARING: COZ #1035
03/31/2004
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1 [START RECORDING]
2 MR. MASDEN: to our final case here, thank
3 everybody for hanging in here with us today.
4 Docket Number 2004-25PL1706 . Counselor .
5 MR. MORRISON: Mr. Chairman, this is the
6 application of Morris Quick and Mark Holiday c/o,
7 Marilyn Taylor, Red Baron Development for a
8 change of Zone #1035, from an A Agricultural Zone
9 district to a PUD development zone district . For
10 eight residential lots along with an eighty-one
11 point nine acre agricultural out lot on the east
12 half of the east half of the northeast quarter of
13 Section 6 . Township one north and part of the
14 southeast quarter of Section 30 and part of the
15 east half of the east half of Section 31,
16 Township 2 all in Range 65 West, six PM, Weld
17 County, Colorado. Notice was published March
18 10th, 2004 in the Fort Lupton Press and evidence
19 of posting by photograph and affidavit has been
20 provided by staff.
21 MR. MASDEN: Okay. Good afternoon Sheri .
22 SHERI LOCKMAN: Good afternoon. Sheri
23 Lockman, Department of Planning Services . Morris
24 Quick and Mark Holiday have applied for a change
25 in zone from agricultural to PUD for eight lots
2
1 with Estate Zone uses, along with one, eighty
2 acre agricultural out lot. The signed announcing
3 the Board of County Commissioners Hearing was
4 posted on March 15, 2004 , by Planning staff.
5 Red Baron Estates is located west and adjacent to
6 County Road 39 and north and adjacent to State
7 Highway 52 . Platte Valley Airpark is north and
8 west of the site. Red Baron Estates is intended
9 to be a community for the owners of airplanes to
10 land and store their aircraft . Each lot would
11 pay a fee to the Platte Valley Air Park for the
12 use of the existing runway. The applicant is
13 proposing individual well and septic systems .
14 Division of Water Resources has approved the
15 water supply plan. No water has been allocated
16 for the agricultural out lot . A twenty thousand
17 gallon cistern is being proposed to store water
18 for the fire protection. Surrounding properties
19 are agricultural in nature with very few homes in
20 the vicinity. The ag lot configuration was not
21 intentional . This long piece of property has
22 just been deeded in this configuration.
23 It ' s been an Ag lot in the past and will remain
24 so but the configuration was not intended by any
25 reason to be this way. It just happens to be the
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1 way it was deeded.
2 Fifteen referral agencies have reviewed this
3 case . Ten responded favorably or included the
4 conditions that have been addressed through
5 development standards and conditions of approval .
6 The towns of Hudson and Fort Lupton are within a
7 three-mile reffal area . Both conflicts with
8 towns indicated no conflicts with the proposal .
9 We have received no correspondence from
10 surrounding property owners . The Planning
11 Commission did ask that the FAA be contacted to
12 insure compliance with their regulations . The
13 applicant has done so and is proposing the
14 following language to change condition 2x, and I
15 did give a copy of the proposed language changes
16 to the Chair.
17 They would propose it to be changed to building
18 height; protection of walls, openings and
19 separation of buildings of mixed occupancy shall
20 be in accordance with the building code . Setbacks
21 and offset distances shall be determined by
22 Chapter 23 of the Weld County Code . And as
23 required by Federal Aviation Regulation Part 77
24 outlined on FAA Form 7460-1, Notice of Proposed
25 Construction or Alteration.
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1 The applicant is also proposing to change the
2 condition number 2k. Originally the intention
3 was for each homeowner approved well permit,
4 however because of the time limitations to drill
5 before the permit expires, the applicant is
6 requesting the following change to that language
7 which would read: Lot owners are responsible for
8 obtaining their own well permit. At time of
9 closing each lot owner will be deeded 0 . 54 acre
10 feet of groundwater from the Laramie Fox Hills
11 Aquifer pursuant to case number 03- CW-061 dated
12 October 29, 2003 . County staff has reviewed the
13 water supply plan and that is a correct figure.
14 The applicant has submitted a letter requesting
15 that the case be administratively reviewed at
16 final plan. The Department of Planning services
17 is in agreement with both the recommended
18 language changes and the final planning
19 administrative review. The Weld County Planning
20 Commission did recommend approval of Red Baron
21 Estates . The applicant is being represented by
22 Ms. Marilyn Taylor.
23 I do have some pictures of the area. I ' ll just
24 go through really quick. That is the airpark. The
25 surrounding areas pretty much look the same.
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1 Okay. I ' ll be happy to take any questions you
2 may have .
3 CHAIRMAN: Thanks Sheri . Any questions for
4 Sheri? Commissioner Jerke
5 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 Sheri do you know if the division of Water
7 Resources has seen that language dealing with
8 having the developer deed each property owner a
9 portion of an acre foot of Laramie Fox Hills?
10 SHERI LOCKMAN: The deeding of the water
11 wasn' t included but in their review, they do list
12 that amount for each lot to be able to get their
13 well permit . How we required them to do that
14 whether it was through the homeowners association
15 of through each individual lot was not discussed,
16 I 'm sure, with the division. I don ' t think there
17 would be a problem, we could double check with
18 the division if you would like .
19 COMMISSIONER JERKE: I don' t know it just
20 strikes me as peculiar. Maybe I just haven' t had
21 experience in that area. It just seems strange
22 to me to, because usually a well permit is just a
23 permit to pump some water. And in a sense to
24 deed that in that manner seems just a little
25 different . I don't agree as experienced in this
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1 area if that would be a what, if it seems to be
2 the proper way to do that or not. It just
3 strikes me as a little strange.
4 SHERI LOCKMAN : Ms . Taylor has worked
5 extensively with the Division of Water Resources
6 to get this thing through. I 'm sure she ' d
7 clarify this but I don' t know.
8 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay.
9 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? Commissioner
10 Geile.
11 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, I had two
12 questions for Sheri . The first one has to do
13 with the eight percent of the total area . Usually
14 we have that, as five percent of the total area
15 can be the building envelopes . But we ' re talking
16 about eight percent or have I misread that rule?
17 SHERI LOCKMAN: Are you talking about the
18 accessory buildings?
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, talking about, I
20 thought it was all the buildings . No it ' s
21 accessory building will not exceed eight percent .
22 But we 've got five percent on the house,
23 SHERI LOCKMAN: [Interposing] It ' s normally a
24 four percent rule, the only thing we add is
25 because their in relation to airplane hangars,
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1 they very well may need a bigger building than
2 your normal subdivision. So, they asked for an
3 exception to that rule.
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE: This would be an
5 exception.
6 SHERI LOCKMAN: Correct. And we are allowed
7 to do that to the PUD.
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE: All right, the other
9 thing would be the agriculture lot; I 'm still
10 trying to figure that out . If you take a look at
11 Weld County Road 49, yeah there you go, and you
12 have the subdivision up there and then you come
13 down and what would be 49, that would be the
14 eighty three acres down where you have the next
15 little box south of the airpark PUD, isn ' t that
16 right . So all of that right on 49 would be the
17 eighty-three acres?
18 SHERI LOCKMAN: correct .
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: could you point that
20 out .
21 SHERI LOCKMAN: the portion to the most
22 northern.
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Could you point it out
24 just so that everybody' s clear on that .
25 SHERI LOCKMAN: This is where the homes are
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1 going to be located. The rest, all the way down
2 to 52 is where the agricultural outlot is .
3 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay.
4 SHERI LOCKMAN: You may remember this site
5 from, I forget the applicant ' s name, we did have
6 a service road,
7 MR. MORRISON: Don Drawer [phonetic] .
8 MR. MASDEN: Don Drawer.
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Is that?
10 SHERI LOCKMAN: Yeah, [unintelligible] there
11 was a road and a right of way there. It ' s filled
12 in. [Unintelligible] .
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I guess, in the
14 application I had a hard time determining what
15 they' re going to do with that land. Is it going
16 to be the home owner ' s association' s
17 responsibility? Or, what is your sense about
18 what is going to happen to the use of that land?
19 SHERI LOCKMAN: Well I asked Ms . Taylor about
20 that and at this point in time they decided to
21 maintain the ownership of that land. If they do
22 bring cattle onto it, which is one thing they' re
23 considering doing, they' re going to bring water
24 in for it. They are planning on trucking in
25 water if they decide they want to put cattle in.
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1 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay and maybe this
2 question might be for public works when we get to
3 him, but you know that ' s going to, one of the
4 conditions is that they will pave Well County
5 Road 49. And we ' re out this way too,
6 [unintelligible] .
7 PETER SCHEI : Just for your reference it ' s
8 Weld County Road 39 .
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Or 39, whatever it is .
10 Thirty-nine, you ' re right .
11 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any other questions of
12 Sheri?
13 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: One question I have Sheri,
14 um, I know they've got the twenty thousand gallon
15 cistern, and it has to be maintained and kept
16 full all the time. There ' s no fire hydrants .
17 It ' s just, just a cistern.
18 SHERI LOCKMAN: Right . They couldn ' t keep
19 pressure with --
20 CHAIRMAN MESDEN: Fire flow.
21 SHERI LOCKMAN: The couldn' t keep pressure
22 with the cistern, [unintelligible) .
23 CHAIRMAN MESDEN: Yeah, you'd have to elevate
24 it to get the hydrostatic end so. Okay.
25 CHAIRMAN MESDEN: all right . Any other
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1 questions? Ron? Thanks Sheri . Any questions of
2 public health today Pam?
3 PAM SMITH: Pam Smith, Well County Health
4 Department, I don ' t have any comments, well maybe
5 a couple of brief comments . Preliminary perk
6 information says that this will meet conventional
7 septic systems for up to four and a half acres .
8 There will be individual wells on there so
9 they' re, because they' re going to have a
10 building, hangar and taxi way, I ' ve asked that
11 they put primary and secondary septic off loads
12 on the lots just so that we know where they' re at
13 and that they' re protected and that they meet the
14 hundred foot setback for all wells . Because
15 these lots are going to have more, even though
16 they' re larger lots, they' re going to have more
17 building footprints on them than with most lots
18 this size. So, otherwise, I don' t have any other
19 comments . I ' d be happy to answer questions .
20 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay, questions?
21 MR. GEILE: Okay, if I could Mr. Chairman,
22 um, the water situation this comes through the
23 state water engineers . As I 've tried to
24 understand this, it would be enough to irrigate
25 five thousand feet, including providing potable
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1 water to the properties . But anything outside of
2 the five thousand feet would more or less require
3 some other source of water or just to put it into
4 some kind of natural vegetation. But there was a
5 statement made that there was enough, that there
6 would be, that the state engineer would not have
7 any problem with the amount of water providing
8 those particular conditions were implemented,
9 which would be the five thousand square foot .
10 And then also the, the need for a family living
11 in one of the homes . Is that, is that a correct
12 interpretation?
13 MS. LOCKMAN: Yes sir, that is correct .
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay.
15 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any other questions for
16 Pam? Sheri, I have one that I just remembered.
17 Now, the homeowner ' s association, or the people
18 that buy these lots, do they pay a fee to the
19 airpark? Is that?
20 SHERI LOCKMAN: To use it, I believe there ' s
21 a ten thousand dollar fee at closing.
22 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: So, they' re, this is also
23 tied to the airpark to a degree?
24 SHERI LOCKMAN : To a degree.
25 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay. Because I was just
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1 trying to make that correlation there. There is
2 a tie there. All right . Thank you. Peter?
3 PETER SCHEI : Yes, good afternoon Mr.
4 Chairman Masden and Commissioners . Peter Schei,
5 Department of Public Works . A couple of things
6 to notice with this development is that the
7 development is along a section of County Road 39
8 that does not exist at this time . We are asking
9 the applicant to build that section of roadway,
10 running from, basically extending County Road 39
11 to the south. Okay. It would be up in this area
12 down along the development itself here . That
13 portion of roadway is planned close to EDA
14 recycled asphalt surfaces . It ' s not paved. There
15 is a section of existing roadway, which is County
16 Road 39 that extends north to County Road 18, and
17 we ' re asking the applicant to basically share a
18 proportional agreement for the road stabilization
19 of that section of the country road. Shows on
20 the offsite transportation issues that we have
21 look at. We have addressed the onsite roadway
22 within the development itself. And earlier in
23 this process we had asked the applicant to pave
24 the interior road because under the definition of
25 the code that we have now, this is adjacent to an
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1 existing PUD and technically that is a urban
2 setting so, the code had required that paving be
3 looked at in referenced to that perspective . At
4 planning commission, it was agreed that this
5 internal roadway would not have to be paved and a
6 paving waiver was granted by the Planning
7 Commission. That road resurface will be of the
8 recycled asphalt, pavement basically. It ' s just
9 recycled asphalt . And that is a very good
10 surface as far as keeping the dust down. I ' d be
11 happy to take any questions .
12 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay, questions of Public
13 Works? Peter, I have one.
14 PETER SCHEI : Yes?
15 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: A designation for school
16 bus pickup, where might that be?
17 PETER SCHEI : The route a school bus would
18 have to take to get to this development would
19 need to come off of County Road 18 from the
20 north. And then Well County Road 39. I need to,
21 I need to, I need some help from my colleague
22 Sheri Lockman on this one as far a designation
23 for a bus pickup.
24 SHERI LOCKMAN: The applicants have stated
25 all along that this will be mostly retired people
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1 that will not have a lot of children. The School
2 Disctrict tended to agree. It didn' t ask for a
3 specific or an exact bus location. And instead,
4 they will not designate for a location it will
5 just have to be an operable, kind of what they
6 are doing now pick up and loading. So, they
7 didn ' t require any specific accommodations
8 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: All right .
9 PETER SCHEI : I ' d like to add to that,
10 Chairman, the section of roads that we ' re asking
11 the applicant to build on to County Road 39 would
12 terminate in the temporary cul-de-sac that would
13 accommodate a larger vehicle such as a bus . And
14 that ' s something that we have looked at at least
15 as far as a provision of terminating Well County
16 Road 39 . So, I believe that there would be some
17 accommodation there as far as a turn around. And
18 you know, and any traffic there basically to the
19 south, [unintelligible] south.
20 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: All right. I guess just one
21 other question is, they are not looking at at
22 opening up road 16 coming in from 41?
23 PETER SCHEI : Correct .
24 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: That will stay as is?
25 PETER SCHEI : Correct.
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1 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay.
2 PETER SCHEI : That is not included in this
3 development .
4 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay.
5 PETER SCHEI : It was not entertained.
6 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: All right . That ' s, I
7 wanted to, I know there was some questions on
8 that so, all right thank you.
9 PETER SCHEI : You' re welcome .
10 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any other questions of
11 Public Works?
12 MR. VAAD: [Unintelligible] staff. Sheri,
13 what will be the nature of the transportation
14 road impact? Will that be just a residential
15 assessment?
16 SHERI LOCKMAN: We don ' t see that they have
17 any more impact than a normal residence because
18 the airplanes aren' t exactly going to be-
19 MR. VAAD: So we haven't established that
20 yet?
21 SHERI LOCKMAN: Yeah. They haven' t
22 established it yet and I will return to that, but
23 I wouldn't foresee any additional impact to the
24 roadways because of the airplanes.
25 MR. VAAD: Okay. Thank you.
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1 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any further questions of
2 staff? If not, I have a representative for the
3 applicant here. Come to the lectern or come to
4 the table, give your name and address please.
5 MARILYN TAYLOR: Marilyn Taylor, 7507 WCR39
6 Fort Lupton, Colorado 80221 . I am the authorized
7 agent for Red Baron Development and also I 'm a
8 general partner in Platte Valley Airport . First
9 of all, I wanted to just answer some of the
10 questions you asked about the water. Then a few
11 other items . We started over a year ago, working
12 with Kim Lawrence, the water attorney, and also
13 Forrest Leaf water engineer, getting the water
14 established because we knew we couldn ' t go
15 forward at all until we had water established
16 with the three hundred year water supply. And
17 initially, because it was such a major issue, we
18 wanted the lot owners to know that they did have
19 a well permit and we had plenty of water and that
20 wouldn' t be a problem to get water. So, when we
21 first started marketing we said each lot would
22 come with a well permit . But when I called to
23 see about how to get eight well permits, even
24 though we could designate on the plat the
25 location, the water division, down town told me
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1 that you probably don ' t want to offer a well
2 permit because there ' s a year expiration date on
3 there . So, if we were to sell the water permit
4 with the lot, people would have to renew it in a
5 year anyway. And that they might not want it in
6 the exact location that we chose to have it in,
7 depending on where the septic was and they had to
8 adhere to all those regulations so far from the
9 septic and so far from the other obstructions .
10 But they suggested that we just, I said how many
11 can we purchase and turn so that people will know
12 that they do have water. They suggested leaving
13 it a proportion of the water basin with the water
14 preset to each individual lot so they would know
15 that they do have guaranteed water for domestic
16 well use and a five thousand square foot yard and
17 landscape care. And then also in our covenants,
18 it outlines the water restrictions . And also
19 outlines the restrictions and saying that they
20 can' t use it for any agricultural or livestock
21 use or whatever. So, it ' s basically that deeding
22 issue in there is just to guarantee that the lot
23 owners will in fact be able to drill a well. That
24 satisfies the three hundred year water supply.
25 And then on the fire cistern, we ' re installing
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1 one just like they have at the Four Mile Baptist
2 Church. And if you 've ever driven by there, I
3 wasn ' t sure how they would get the water out of
4 the cistern, either but they' re just some like
5 spouts or whatever, or to an area of the tank.
6 And then it depends on, I understand, the kind of
7 valves that they put on. And when I talked to
8 the company that installed the Four Mile Baptist
9 Church fire cistern, he was telling us that
10 they' ve improved even now the valves to make the
11 pressure greater to get the water out so, um, I
12 guess the reference would be the one at Four Mile
13 Baptist Church.
14 And then the fire department has, will be
15 filling it for us for the first time . They' ll
16 come out and check it out and fill it. And then
17 thereafter we have to maintain it and that ' s in
18 the H0A as well. The home owners maintain the
19 fire cistern, make sure that it ' s full at all
20 times and in working order. And if for some
21 reason we had to use it, then it ' s the H0A' s
22 responsibility to refill it . And we have a
23 source, A&W water supply in Fort Lupton for them
24 to do that . On the building envelopes and the
25 septic and the well permits, we have completed
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1 our change of zone map to show building envelopes
2 and proposed well locations and proposed septic
3 locations and a primary and secondary septic
4 system. And we 've also included on that plat,
5 the drainage and the retention ponds and so the
6 building envelopes and the septic and the well
7 correspond to the location of the retention ponds
8 based on the drainage of the land so that there
9 isn ' t any seepage or sewage or whatever. So,
10 we ' ve addressed that issue.
11 On the fee to Platte Valley, Mark and Morris are
12 both partners in Platte Valley and as well as I
13 am. So when we decided to do this project,
14 because the airport couldn ' t afford to buy the
15 land and we didn't want it to go to anyone else .
16 We wanted to make it beneficial to Platte Valley
17 as well because we ' re all partners in the airport
18 and it ' s a mutual venture . And so, we offered to
19 pay Platte Valley the ten thousand dollar access
20 fee for use of their airport . Just because it
21 benefits all of us . It benefits the limited
22 partners, it benefits Red Baron as well . It
23 basically there ' s a "through the fence" fee, they
24 call it . And it ' s really quite high compared to
25 what other airports might want to do but because
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1 we ' re, you know we want to see Platte Valley grow
2 and thrive as well, we offered to do that. So,
3 that ' s part of our payment, once they close on
4 the lot, to Platte Valley. So, that ' s where that
5 ten thousand dollar fee they' re paying in. So
6 from Red Baron Estates and Platte Valley will get
7 eighty thousand dollars basically to start with.
8 Then in our covenants, and our hangar home owners
9 association, we have written in there that the
10 eight lots at Red Baron Estates will share
11 proportionately with the cost of maintenance and
12 upkeep for the airport runway and the taxi ways
13 that they would be using to go to and from the
14 fuel system. So it ' s not only just a one-time
15 payment, it ' s an H0A homeowners association that
16 will pay proportionately for the use of the
17 airport. Just like the hangar owners association
18 does now with the hangars that are there . Based
19 on the number of airplanes and the number of
20 hangars, the airport hangar owners pay
21 proportionately to do plowing to do mowing, to do
22 any cracked sealing that we have to do or
23 whatever. And the H0A up at Red Baron would do
24 the same thing.
25 And regarding school bus pickup. I talked with
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1 Dr. Wade like Sheri said, when we first proposed
2 to them that we would do an offload and an on
3 load he replied and said that we could do a
4 pickup somewhere around 39 or 52 if the need
5 arose. And then we wrote back and told him that
6 we weren ' t going to, we wouldn' t be having access
7 to 52 . So, it would have to be on 39. And he ' s
8 agreeable to that . And then on post box area
9 that ' s not on the plat either, the Fort Lupton
10 Post Office has written us a letter and requested
11 that each individual lot owner have their own
12 postbox so that ' s two items that are normally
13 required on the plat, we 've gotten variances for .
14 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any questions, excuse me.
15 MR. GEILE : I have a question Mr. Chairman.
16 Does the homeowners association have a
17 termination date or a provision, which in essence
18 addresses a termination date?
19 MS . TAYLOR: No.
20 MR. GEILE: so it would be a perfect-
21 MS . TAYLOR: We just have our bylaws and our
22 articles of incorporation. It ' s, it runs with
23 the property.
24 MR. GEILE: Thank you.
25 MS . TAYLOR: But it does have the provisions
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1 for amendment .
2 MR. GEILE: No, I just wanted to make sure
3 that there isn' t, with cisterns that they, you
4 know, involve land useage is involved, within
5 your, I just wanted to make sure that there
6 wasn' t, you know, a twenty year termination date .
7 It would remain in effect so it would be in
8 perpetuity.
9 MS . TAYLOR: No, it ' s in perpetuity for as
10 long as the development is there . And the other
11 issue about
12 [Break in audio from 24 : 39 . 4 to 25 : 18 . 5] The
13 eighty acre outlet, the reason Red Baron
14 Development is hanging on to that instead of
15 turning it over to the homeowners association is
16 because it doesn' t really offer any public
17 activity or any entertainment or recreational
18 use. It ' s such a strange shaped piece of land we
19 couldn ' t put anything on there. So rather than
20 make it the responsibility of the home owners
21 association to keep it mowed and keep it
22 maintained, Red Baron Development will be doing
23 that . If it has to be mowed, we ' ll mow it . We
24 have a weed management plan already submitted to
25 Ron Broda that will be included in our
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1 application as well . So, in the weed management
2 plan for the eighty acre out lot would be the
3 responsibility of Red Baron Development. And
4 then each individual lot owner also that ' s
5 another addition we put in the covenant, has to
6 adhere to the weed management plan for that
7 portion of their lot that is not included in that
8 five thousand square foot of landscaping.
9 MR. GEILE: Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any other questions?
11 COMMISSIONER JERKE.
12 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Comment first and then a
13 question. I hope that your homeowners don ' t have
14 to spend more time fighting weeds than they do
15 flying.
16 MS . TAYLOR: I do too.
17 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And then the question,
18 regarding a letter from the state engineer, dated
19 February 6th, it just confuses me a little bit
20 because it says that the current decree on the
21 water, it says that there ' s a hundred year
22 aquifer life. And then it states that, according
23 to county regs that we need to have a three
24 hundred year water supply. I 'm trying to figure
25 out which is which.
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1 MS . TAYLOR: Well those three hundred year
2 water supplies, what they were referring to, and
3 there ' s a follow up letter after that letter,
4 written by Forrest Leaf, our water engineer.
5 There is an existing well permit on there right
6 now. And it was issued in ' 86 and it, that was
7 before they came up with the three hundred year
8 water supply. So the water well permit that ' s on
9 there now is for the entire acreage and it is a
10 one hundred year water supply but it included in
11 the water decree that we have issued that ' s on
12 file with the water division right now. It
13 includes that, that well and converts that well
14 to the three hundred year water supply rule in
15 addition to the other well permits that they' re
16 issuing. And that ' s not the letter that ' s with
17 the application. So, what we ' ve done is I ' ve
18 issued a letter to the water commission to re-
19 permit that well, to comply with the water decree
20 because it was actually involved in that water
21 decree in the first place. The water decree that
22 we have right now, that ' s filed with the County,
23 the Water Judge, allows us to have eight new
24 wells and use the existing other well on there
25 beuase in the beginning when we first started to
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1 get our water decree and do our water research
2 and legality, we were going to have nine lots and
3 then in order to get an easement all the way down
4 to 52 in case one of these years we do need to do
5 a road there, we had to take the acreage away
6 from the ninth lot and put it into an easement
7 down to 52 . So, we didn ' t change the water
8 decree because we were halfway through that . We
9 just, we have actually eight new well permits and
10 use the existing well that ' s on the property now.
11 So, we re-permit the existing well that ' s on one
12 of the lots . And then just, do well permits for
13 seven more wells . Did that answer your question
14 about that?
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Oh, it makes an attempt,
16 but not really. I think that some of my
17 satisfaction comes from the fact that this is a
18 change of zone and I guess the county will be
19 able to keep watching after this for some time to
20 come to make sure that indeed the water is
21 permitted properly, so we get another bite at the
22 apple with this .
23 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay, any further
24 questions?
25 MR. VAAD: I guess my, and maybe this is more
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1 appropriate of staff, on I guess its ' , maybe it ' s
2 the conditions of approval development standards .
3 On page ten, prior to recording the plats, number
4 five, letter A. This has to do with original
5 copies, the approved covenants and bylaws. And
6 is that for the purpose of recording those? So,
7 the bylaws, the homeowners association are in
8 recorded documents?
9 SHERI LOCKMAN: Right now we have a
10 preliminary copy the changes haven' t been made
11 to, we requested, and they haven' t been approved
12 by the County Attorney' s Office . Prior to
13 recording the final plat, we receive signed
14 copies that have made all those changes .
15 MR. VAAD: I was aware of one instance, not
16 this one, where the homeowner' s association
17 bylaws didn' t get recorded. People bought the
18 lots and now it wasn' t that easy to do them so.
19 SHERI LOCKMAN: Right . That ' s a condition we
20 haven' t seen much before, where in
21 [unintelligible] nowadays to make sure
22 [unintelligible] .
23 MR. VAAD: Thank you.
24 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any other questions?
25 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Marilyn, I have one,
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1 speaking about the right of way going down to 52 .
2 And Peter, is there right of way, does the County
3 have right of way down to Highway 52 or not?
4 PETER SCHEI : There is either existing right
5 of way and this, how you might say, can
6 checkerboard going down that stretch. But the
7 applicant in those areas where there is not right
8 of way has said that they would dedicate the
9 right of way along their side, section line.
10 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay. So, is that a
11 railroad section line down through there then
12 basically? And there ' s only so much on 31 and not
13 32?
14 PETER SCHEI : I can get you; I can get the
15 exact sections . There ' s a section in there that
16 does not have right of way on the west side,
17 which would be the applicant ' s side of the
18 section. And they are proposing to dedicate the
19 right of way all along that parcel . Basically,
20 from the north end to the south end they will be
21 dedicating a right of way for --
22 MR. GEILE: would you draw a visual-?
23 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Yeah, absolutely.
24 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Does that mean we ' ll have
25 dedicated right of way from 18 all the way to 52
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1 then?
2 PETER SCHEI : Correct.
3 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: At least on one side?
4 PETER SCHEI : Correct.
5 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: And that will be thirty
6 feet?
7 PETER SCHEI : Correct .
8 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay. That ' s what I was
9 wondering. Okay. All right . Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any other questions of the
11 applicant? All right . Thank you. Now we ' ll open
12 this up, the public portion of this hearing for
13 public comment . Anybody who would like to come
14 and speak on this application for or against, can
15 come to the lectern, give your name and address
16 and your comments .
17 RUSSELL RILEY: My name is Russell Riley. I
18 live at 6261 Well County Road 41, Fort Lupton,
19 Colorado 80621 . My mom, I was born and raised
20 there. My mom and my dad, and my mom now, owns
21 the corner where you see CR16 that quarter right
22 there. And, on Section 32 . And, am I for or
23 against it, I guess it, on any given day you ask
24 me that question I ' d be yes or no. I can ' t say
25 that they shouldn ' t do it because it ' s, I mean,
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1 it ' s a piece of property that can' t be, nothing
2 grows on it anyhow. I 'm not ready for housing,
3 houses, I, won' t actually lose my privacy up
4 there. But, so I can' t really say I 'm for or
5 against it . The only thing at the Planning
6 Commission that I was really questioning was
7 fences . And I was told by the, that the County
8 don ' t have any obligation for fences, it ' s up to
9 the property owner. And, I was worried about the
10 roads . And , Mr. [unintelligible] said that Road
11 16 probably wouldn' t be open and they said yeah,
12 it probably would never be opened. We,
13 [unintelligible] farms has four more of my moms .
14 We tried to close 16 at one time. Don Carroll
15 said that they wouldn' t close it because of
16 future use to the airport . So, I did learn
17 something today. All that two hours this
18 morning is that things can, subject to change
19 down the road. So right now, they say 16 won ' t be
20 opened. Two, three years from now, will it be
21 opened? I hate to see 16 opened. Now, to
22 address Road 39. I 've done some homework on
23 that . There is this old map, I don't know what
24 it ' s called, it ' s an 1839 map and they have these
25 lines on it. And the right of way for 39 is on
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1 Section 30 . The right of way for 39 is on
2 Section 32 . And then you go down to Section 6,
3 it ' s back on but Section 6 right of way kind of
4 goes like this . I don' t know why it did that .
5 So, actually the right of way would be on my
6 mom' s property, thirty feet . The guy at the
7 mapping place said that the County has two
8 choices . They can buy another thirty feet . Or
9 they can condemn thirty feet and put the road on
10 my mom' s property. So, this is why I 'm here. I
11 think if Red Baron Estates want's their houses;
12 I 'm going to be a good neighbor. I 'm not going
13 to object. Go ahead and build. Put the road on
14 Red Baron Estates and not on my mom' s property. I
15 mean you guys can do that . They can do it. They
16 can agree to it . Put it in the minutes and say
17 the road will be over there because we 've got a
18 sprinkler on that quarter and that sprinkler was
19 there in the late sixties . And at that time, we
20 never dreamed of a road being opened or anything
21 like this. So, if they put the road on mom' s
22 property, there ' re going to be on our sprinklers .
23 Now they say they' re not planning on a road right
24 away, but that ' s what they say now. Maybe a year
25 from now people will get tired of driving all the
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1 way around and want that road opened up. County
2 comes in and says hey, we ' re going to take thirty
3 feet, condemn thirty feet, move your sprinkler,
4 cut it off or whatever, and we can' t do anything
5 about it . I mean, I 'm just; this is why I 'm
6 here. Let ' s do the road issue . Plus also, if
7 God' s willing, I might get enough money to put up
8 a new fence. If I put up a new fence and then
9 the County comes in and says, we ' re going to put
10 a road here . Then I ' ve got to tear down my fence
11 and I 've got to do all this work over again. So,
12 let ' s, let ' s get the, that ' s what I 'm here for.
13 Let ' s, where the red line is, let ' s make that the
14 borderline and then put Evans over here and
15 Milliken over there . You know. Put the road
16 over, let ' s put the road over, I drove something
17 this morning. Put the road over on Red Baron
18 Estates . That ' s all I 've got to say about it .
19 And then the water issue I guess you guys are
20 [unintelligible] will keep on the water issue.
21 Cause we need to watch out for the water too. But
22 like I say, I 'm not against them. I mean let
23 them put their houses . They' re going to be nice
24 houses and if they don' t mind a spotlight shining
25 in the window during calving season, then I don' t
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1 mind their houses .
2 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Thanks Rusty. Any
3 questions-
4 MR. GEILE: But that doesn' t break up the
5 point, there is the farm, the right to farm
6 provision included in here isn' t there?
7 MS . TAYLOR: Oh yes .
8 MR. GEILE: Okay.
9 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any other comments or-
10 MALE VOICE: I think Rusty, on that, if that
11 part of right away is on Section 32 on your mom' s
12 property. And then it sounds like the
13 applicant ' s going to give thirty feet on their
14 side, so that makes thirty feet on each side of
15 the section line. They wouldn' t take an
16 additional thirty feet from your mom' s side on
17 Section 32 . So, they wouldn' t be taking any more
18 than what there already is there .
19 RUSS RILEY: Well I went over and talked to
20 Marilyn and she said that she ' s willing to work
21 with us and stuff so, maybe that ' s pretty well
22 [unintelligible] or something.
23 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay. Any further
24 questions? Thanks . Is there anyone else here
25 today have comments on this application? Come
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1 up; give your name and address for the record
2 please.
3 FRED GARDNER: I 'm Fred Gardner. I live
4 Lakewood, Colorado, at 1855 South Evans, zip
5 80232 . I own property in the airpark PUD. And
6 I 'm a member of the limited partners that Marilyn
7 also is a member of. And I have a third
8 interest, which is another HOA known as the
9 hangar owner' s association in the Platte Valley
10 Airpark. I 'm the treasurer for that organization
11 from its inception.
12 I ' d like to make several comments for your
13 consideration. For clarification, the large bold
14 print that says Airport PUD is not where the
15 airpark PUD that I 'm acquainted with is . It ' s
16 located up in the green area shown at the top of
17 the gray diagram, just adjacent to the letters
18 USR1322 . There ' s a ten-acre development that was
19 platted in the mid 90 ' s, approved by resolution
20 here at a meeting in February of ' 97, with some
21 concerns about funding and collateral, which were
22 addressed February 19th. And the basic, the
23 basic program is that there be escrowed funds to,
24 pay for improvements in the airpark PUD of 1997 .
25 As a property owner in that airpark PUD, I can
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1 tell you that the PUD promises are incomplete,
2 unfulfilled. And have had quite a bit of
3 resistance in requests that people fill .
4 Since this PUD is peopled by the same
5 personalities, essentially that operated the
6 first PUD, I 'm just [unintelligible]
7 consideration that the fulfillments of that PUD
8 are incomplete . And it should be part of your
9 consideration. In your approval of this PUD. The
10 airport itself is a major amenity, which makes
11 Red Baron Estates a feasible venture . And I 'm
12 not certain of the financial viability of the
13 airport itself . It needs to be there almost,
14 well for a long time, in order to make the
15 promises of an airport fly in community viable. I
16 have a limited partner. I have never seen a
17 financial report . Never seen promised quarterly
18 reports . I have no idea what the financial
19 status is . I do know that the escrow money,
20 perhaps not all released, seems to be
21 insufficient for completing the airpark community
22 in terms of paving and other and drainage and
23 these things generate considerable concern.
24 Marilyn said that the ten thousand dollar fee to
25 be collected with each lot sale would benefit the
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1 limited partners . I would like to know how that
2 will then benefit each and all limited partners .
3 I may not find that out . I don' t expect you to
4 tell me. But I don't know. It ' s never been,
5 there has never been any discussion with the
6 limited partners about this .
7 And she also mentioned that there would be a
8 proportional fee charged to each homeowner for
9 support of airport maintenance, such as crack
10 filling, weed mowing, snow removal . At the
11 present time, the agreement is that the hangar
12 owner ' s association will pay fifty percent of
13 those expenses . And the airport will pay fifty
14 percent of those expenses . And that ' s the way
15 we ' ve been operating. It ' s not clear to me, and
16 I think it should be defined, how the new
17 homeowners group will proportionately support .
18 Will it be that we ' re reduced to forty percent
19 and the airport ' s forty percent, and they take up
20 twenty percent-I ' d like to know how that works . I
21 would like to think that the hangar owner ' s
22 association would not still be obligated to pay
23 fifty percent and that the airport would take the
24 money from the new development . I also am
25 concerned that the viability issue for the
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1 airport is impacted by the fact that all the lots
2 were sold and there was no continuing fee to be
3 paid to the airport, which leaves them in a, in a
4 negative cash flow position as far as their
5 development. And it seems like the very same
6 practice is going to be carried forward here.
7 There will be a fee paid for services, but the
8 airport has not continuing benefit from selling
9 these lots . Once they' re sold, their income is
10 gone and there won' t be any more . That ' s not
11 really my business, but I 'm concerned in this
12 area of airport financial viability. That there
13 seems to be no plan to fund this airport by the
14 users . It ' s just a sell the lots, take the
15 money, and rejoice in the big sum that you get up
16 front . But it doesn ' t last very long. It goes
17 away.
18 I ' d like to come back to the issue of not
19 completing the original PUD. The primary
20 paragraphs, the very beginning of that PUD
21 specifically declares that the developers,
22 Marilyn Taylor and the Airpark Associates, would
23 furnish engineering services, that they would do
24 testing, that they would have construction
25 supervision and that the improvements to the
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1 property would be made on a schedule witch was
2 designated as the lots are sold. At this time,
3 thirty-seven of the thirty-nine lots have been
4 sold. And the improvements are deficient . They
5 have not been completed. Specifically drainage
6 and paving are the two major areas . Our hangar
7 building has been erected for five years and was
8 originally paved insufficiently with no drainage
9 construction. The water that accumulated ran
10 through our building, into our building and
11 through our building, and finally last fall, we
12 spent the money on our own to mitigate two types
13 of damages . One, the damage to our business
14 plans because the paving grading was done
15 insufficiently to have an enticing hangar for
16 rent, hangar area for rent . And the second
17 mitigating factor was that we were experiencing
18 damage to our foundation. We had to improve the
19 drainage on our own. We couldn' t rely any longer
20 on waiting for Airpark to do it. So, I just want
21 you to know that the track record for the
22 existing PUD, in my view, is unsatisfactory and
23 there should be considerable caution exercised as
24 you make your decision on this approval . Thank
25 you very much.
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1 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Thank you. Any questions,
2 Fred?
3 FRED GARDNER: I 'm sorry. I ' ll come back.
4 MR. GEILE: I guess I did. I need to ask some
5 questions . So you' re, seven of the eight lots
6 have already been sold, so this property, this-
7 FRED GARDNER: No, no sir. There ' s two PUDs
8 and I 'm referring to the 1997 .
9 MR. GEILE: Okay, I, sometimes I don' t hear
10 very good.
11 FRED GARDNER: Sure and I probably talked too
12 fast . There were thirty-nine lots platted in that
13 PUD. At this time, thirty-seven have been sold.
14 And the deadline, or the time schedule for doing
15 the amenities, the paving, was per lot sales, as
16 the lots were sold. And it wasn ' t done that way.
17 MR. GEILE: I understand. Thank you sir.
18 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any other questions?
19 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: How many of the lots have
20 been sold now?
21 FRED GARNER: In the Airpark Hangar owners
22 PUD, there are thirty-seven lots sold out of
23 thirty-nine that were made available.
24 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: And all the amenities,
25 paving and drainage, have not been completed?
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1 FRED GARDNER: That ' s correct.
2 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay.
3 FRED GARDNER: The drainage plan was to
4 include a detention pond and the location of
5 that detention pond specified by Marilyn Taylor
6 and Associates, was inconvenient for them.
7 Because it would require them to move an existing
8 building. So, they apparently got permission to
9 establish that detention pond in another area.
10 But they haven' t done that yet either. And of
11 course, the drainage impact on our building was
12 disturbing to say the least so we, we felt like
13 we had to mitigate that damage by doing it
14 ourselves . It wasn' t done by the airport .
15 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: So you did the drainage and
16 the pavement?
17 FRED GARDNER: We did. Yes, we completed and
18 improved the paving that they had given us . They
19 didn' t give us what they promised in the original
20 negotiations . They gave us driveways instead of
21 a solid ramp, which is disadvantageous to our
22 airplane hangar renters . And the drainage issues
23 were of even more concern to us . When I said we
24 had to mitigate damage to our business plan I 'm
25 referring to completing the paving so that we
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1 have more attractive hangars to rent . The second
2 part was mitigating the drainage problems that we
3 had.
4 And my major point is that they didn' t do what
5 they promised and there are a lot of promises
6 associated with this new PUD and while there is a
7 different emphasis in management with Mark
8 Holiday and Morrie Quick as the principles who
9 purchased the property, it ' s still the same group
10 who ' s looking at the benefits of developing Red
11 Baron Estates and taking the ten thousand dollars
12 per property owner. And I 'm not, I ' ll just say
13 again, I 'm not at all certain, I can' t see any
14 way, given their lack of ever sharing any
15 information about the limited partnership, I
16 don ' t see how Marilyn can make a statement that
17 that money will benefit the limited partners . I
18 assume there ' s --
19 MR. MORRISON: [interposing] Mr. Chairman.
20 Mr. Chairman. You know, I think you might want
21 to question the relevance of all this. I 'm also
22 aware there' s litigation over these issues so I
23 don't think you can substitute for the courts at
24 all in resolving the difference between the
25 parties . you know, I think he ' s made the point
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1 that you should question the, you know, carefully
2 question assurances made on the development that
3 is before you. But I don' t know trying to
4 litigate all these issues that exist at the
5 Airpark is appropriate.
6 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay. All right. Okay.
7 Any questions?
8 FRED GARDNER: Thank you very much.
9 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Thank you. Is there anyone
10 else here who would like to speak on this matter
11 today? Come forward and give your name and
12 address please .
13 JIM MCLAUGHLIN: Hello, I 'm Jim McLaughlin,
14 11027 West 76th Place, Arvada, Colorado. I 'm the
15 limited partner in the Airport . And a part
16 property owner of lot 6 and 7 of the Airpark. And
17 I think it ' s relevant, certainly the airport to
18 this, Red Baron Estates, as a utility. And to
19 the people that buy lots here, because the
20 airport is, may be the most important utility
21 that those people are considering fly in
22 community. Therefore, viability of the airport
23 is relevant to the viability of the Red Baron
24 Estates. In this case, the in 1997 the County
25 did enter an agreement for a PUD with the same,
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1 essentially the same parties . For improvements
2 at the airport and sold lots based on those
3 improvements . And those, for initial site work,
4 paving, drainage, services, like professional
5 engineer for construction supervision, and a
6 schedule was provided for those improvements . And
7 based on when the lots are sold. Well our lot was
8 sold six and a half years ago. And the lot has
9 no access, no paving to it, at all . We have a
10 lot, the other lot we have had partial paving,
11 kind of a temporary nature, which as part of a
12 partner with Mr. Gardner, we had to pay to fix
13 ourselves . So I think that it is relevant the
14 viability of the airport is relevant . This is a
15 private airport . It ' s not viable it can close.
16 And this subdivision, a critical part of this
17 subdivision is the airport and the county has a
18 PUD agreement with the airport, that is in
19 default because the lots have been sold, the
20 utilities haven' t been built, certainly the
21 [unintelligible] is not debatable if the paving
22 that ' s shown on the PUD is not there . The
23 retention pond that ' s shown on the PUD is not
24 there. And that ' s part of the airport . It
25 affects the operation of the airport as far as
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1 providing taxiways and utilities and offsite and
2 there have been problems . And if more paving
3 gets put in, there will be more problems with
4 those facilities .
5 With respect to the subdivision itself, I 'm not
6 really opposed to the subdivision itself. It
7 seems that if you' re only going to irrigate a
8 small portion of your land that ' s dry land and
9 you' ve got airplanes that fuel in oversized
10 buildings . However, it ' s not that impractical to
11 put in a more sophisticated pressurized fire
12 system because a wildfire there would have to
13 have a very quick response and the system is not
14 going to be a whole lot of help.
15 But regardless, my, my request, or my would be
16 not so much opposed to the subdivision, but to
17 not approve the subdivision until the airport,
18 which is a critical part of the subdivision, the
19 Red Baron subdivision, has fulfilled it ' s
20 obligations to complete the work that ' s in the
21 PUD agreement with the county. Or at least make
22 the subdivision contingent on completing those
23 improvements that were promised to the county in
24 1997 . Thanks .
25 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any questions . All right .
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1 Thank you. Is there anybody else here this
2 morning, this morning geez, this afternoon to
3 speak on this issue. Come forward and give your
4 name and address please .
5 MARGARET BARBOSA: I 'm Margaret Barbosa I
6 live in Thornton, Colorado, 4273 East 126th
7 Avenue. My husband and I also have property at
8 Platte Valley Airport . We have a lot that we
9 purchased there and we built a hangar. It ' s one
10 of the thirty-nine lots that were sold. We have
11 two of those lots . We have had no problems with
12 drainage or access . The utilities that we were
13 promised were going to be put at the airport,
14 were put there. We ' re also potential buyers of a
15 lot at Red Baron. And we understand that there
16 is no guarantee that the airport will be there.
17 We want to live there . We hope that it will stay
18 there. But we know there is a risk. And we ' ve
19 not been promised anything about the airport . As
20 far as our hangar in Platte Valley, I don' t know
21 of anybody who' s been deprived of access or
22 taxiway or utilities . Every [unintelligible] has
23 an occupancy permit to that building, has all
24 those rights of [unintelligible] .
25 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay. Thank you. Any
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1 questions for Margaret? Thank you. Is there
2 anyone else here this afternoon to speak on this
3 mess? Come to the lectern give your name and
4 address please.
5 Seeing there is no one else to speak on this
6 matter during the public input portion, we will
7 close that public portion. And bring it back to
8 the applicants . Come to the-
9 MS . TAYLOR: You know it ' s late in the day
10 and you guys have been here all morning and all
11 day and I 'm not going to air all this dirty
12 laundry about our litigation we ' re in on the
13 Platte Valley. Lee Morrison is familiar with it;
14 Don is familiar with it, Peter ' s familiar with
15 it . It all stems around a drainage issue that
16 the litigation is ongoing now and whose fault was
17 it the airport says it was their fault, their
18 water engineers they created a drainage problem.
19 They say it ' s our fault and we could go on
20 forever. It ' s been going on for five years . So I
21 think what ' s happening now is, I mean it ' s pretty
22 obvious that all parties involved this
23 development has considerable interest in keeping
24 Platte Valley alive . We started it; we ' re the
25 ones that keep it going. We have every
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1 [unintelligible] loves the airport . Except
2 several who are continual troublemakers and this
3 is just a continuation of the harassment and an
4 attempt to down grade the airport and take it
5 over and it ' s not going to work. But aside from
6 that, we have, in our covenants, [unintelligible]
7 those covenants, that the airport will always
8 remain an airport. If we fail to operate it as
9 an airport, the H0A says they' re going to take it
10 over. So, that ' s a guarantee for the Red Baron
11 to a degree because there ' s nothing that is ever
12 going to happen to Platte Valley Airport . As far
13 as the improvements though, we have escrow
14 accounts ready to complete the improvements .
15 When McLaughlin and Fred Gardner said that they
16 haven' t seen a financial report, they did an
17 audit of the books, couldn' t find anything. We
18 have not done any quarterly financial reports
19 because when we did one, it got distributed to
20 someone who was not in the partnership. So, we
21 don ' t give out financial information. If they
22 came to the office, they could see it . But, you
23 know, I think in all honesty, it ' s, their
24 comments don' t have anything to do with our
25 development . It ' s just a matter of they lost the
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1 last court order and they' re mad at us . So, if
2 you want to make a comment on it. I don' t think
3 it has anything to do with Red Baron.
4 MR. MORRISON: I don' t have anything further
5 to add unless you' ve got questions . I don ' t know
6 the details of the litigation.
7 MS . TAYLOR: The litigation is ongoing and --
8 MR. GEILE: [Interposing] I guess I, I, Mr .
9 Chairman,
10 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Commissioner GEILE.
11 MR. GEILE: If I may, I the litigation and
12 all of that, I 'm sorry that you' re going through
13 that . But we have a certain case in front of us
14 today. And I think you' ve made it very clear,
15 Council, that you know, home owners association,
16 hangar owners association, whatever it might be
17 in the past, you know that ' s, that ' s another
18 situation and another problem. What we ' re here
19 to do is, and I think we' ve taken care of the
20 home owners association, three copies will be
21 filed and reviewed for it ' s completeness and its
22 accuracy, but I think that ' s what we ' re hearing.
23 I guess I ' d like to, unless I 'm missing
24 something, or Council, I ' d like to concentrate on
25 the case at hand.
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1 MR. MORRISON: Fine with me.
2 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay, any-
3 MR. GEILE: I think we have to.
4 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Any further comments or
5 questions of the applicant?
6 MS. TAYLOR: I would like to say one more
7 thing. All of the improvements are still
8 scheduled to be done at Platte Valley. The
9 monies are in an escrow account and I can provide
10 savings account information on that for Red
11 Baron. And it includes agreement for Red Baron,
12 the service improvement agreement, Peter and I
13 changed it last week, the amount of monies needed
14 to do the internal and external improvement are
15 approximately three hundred thousand dollars . We
16 have two signed contracts ready to go when we
17 close on the properties to make sure that there
18 is money for every single improvement to be done
19 at Red Baron, including paving of the taxiways at
20 Platte Valley. For the benefit of the airport .
21 That ' s all I have to say.
22 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Peter, working on a yeah,
23 do you have comments on it?
24 PETER SCHEI : I 've worked with the applicant
25 on the onsite and the offsite improvements
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1 agreement . And there is no concern from the
2 Public Works perspective. In fact, the applicant
3 has proactively pursued the Public Works and I
4 believe maybe due to something in the past that
5 may or may not have worked out on their other
6 development but they've really stepped forward in
7 my perspective as far as looking at these
8 improvements that are going to be required and
9 we ' ll submit those to Mr. Morris, Attorney Morris
10 for approval and review, etcetera . So, I don ' t
11 have any other comments or concerns regarding the
12 homeowners themselves .
13 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Do we have any
14 collateralization of that is being put together?
15 PETER SCHEI : We will go through the process
16 for collateral at escrow as any other
17 improvements agreements and , I don' t see there ' s
18 nothing special or out of the ordinary for this
19 development.
20 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay, fine.
21 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Further comments or? All
22 right. All right thank you. Any discussion?
23 Okay, you've looked at and read all the
24 conditions of approval and site specific
25 development plans . And Sheri you do have the
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1 changes here? Did you give me that you read into
2 the record on changes?
3 SHERI LOCKMAN: [Unintelligible] to read it
4 again.
5 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay, you have read into
6 the record all ready that the applicant has
7 agreed to?
8 SHERI LOCKMAN: Those were proposed by the
9 applicant.
10 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Oh, proposed by the
11 applicant . But you' re agreeable to them?
12 SHERI LOCKMAN: Yes, we are .
13 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay. All right . Thank
14 you. It ' s been a long day. Okay, thank you.
15 Bring it back to the board for discussion.
16 MR. GEILE: Mr. Chairman, I just start the
17 discussion, we ' ve had a case put before us,
18 conditions of approval and development standards .
19 I do concur with the Planning Commission that it
20 does, oh excuse me; did the Planning Commission
21 hear this, Council? Did I? Okay they did
22 because. The Planning Commission did in fact
23 hear it and did apply the County zoning and
24 subdivision regulations as it relates to this .
25 Found that it is compliant. Not only that but
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1 with our comprehensive plans . I don' t, you know,
2 I really empathize that there are issues with
3 other instruments that have been in place through
4 the years with hangar associations and things of
5 that nature. But we really need to concentrate
6 on this case and hopefully those will get
7 resolved. But they' ll have to be resolved at
8 another venue other than this . So based upon
9 those comments, Mr. Chairman, I 'm prepared to
10 make a motion any time you' re ready to accept
11 one.
12 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay. Any further
13 comments?
14 MR. GEILE: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion
15 that docket number 2004-25 change of zone 1035
16 from the agriculture zone to PUD planning use,
17 FUD zone district for eight residential lots
18 along with an eighty-one point nine three acre
19 agriculture lot be approved with the conditions
20 approval of development standards and the two
21 additions as presented, to be included.
22 SHERI LOCKMAN: Could you also please include
23 that you want this to be reviewed
24 administratively staff review and final?
25 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Administrative review.
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1 MR. GEILE: I would have no problem with an
2 administrative review from what I ' ve seen so I
3 would approve that as part of the motion, Mr.
4 Chairman.
5 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Okay.
6 MR. GEILE: Excuse me but my batteries went
7 out so I 'm [unintelligible] . [Laughter] It ' s one
8 of the problems .
9 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: Do I have a second?
10 MR. VAAD: I ' ll second it .
11 CHAIRMAN MASDEN: I have a motion by
12 Commissioner Geile seconded by Commissioner Vaad
13 to approve docket number 2004- 25PL1706 change of
14 zone number 1035 from an A agricultural zone
15 district to PUD development zone district for
16 eight residential lots along with eighty-one
17 point nine three agricultural, along with an
18 eighty-one point nine three agricultural lots for
19 Morrie Quick and Mark Holiday, in care of Marilyn
20 Taylor, Red Baron Development, along with
21 conditions of approval with amendments in the
22 development plan. Any further discussion or
23 comments?
24 If not, all in favor say aye.
25 [Chorus of ayes] .
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1 Opposed nay. Carried. Thank you. Thank you
2 everybody for staying with us today. It ' s been a
3 long day for everybody.
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CERTIFICATION
/—
I do hereby certify that the foregoing pages are
a true and complete transcript of the record made by
me in my capacity as a transcriber.
ranscriber
4-30- 04
Date
CERTIFICATION
I do hereby certify that the foregoing pages are
a true and complete transcript of the record made by
me in my capacity as a transcriber.
ranscriber
4-30- 04
Date
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HEARING: COZ #1035
Morris Quick and Mark Holliday
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03/31/2004
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1 [START RECORDING] 1 it's been an Ag lot in the past and will remain
2 MALE VOICE 1: to our final case here,thank 2 so if the configuration was not intended by any
3 everybody for hanging in here with us today. 3 reason to be this way. It just happens to be
4 Docket Number 2004-25PL1706. Hanson. 4 the way it was deeded.
5 MALE VOICE 2: Mr.Chairman,this is the 5 Fifteen referral agencies have reviewed this
6 application of Morris Quick and Morris Holiday 6 case. Ten are in favor of the request with the
7 Care, Marilyn Taylor,Red Barron Development for 7 conditions that have been addressed to
8 changes on their 1035,from an A Agricultural 8 development standards and conditions of
9 district to a PUD development zone district. 9 approval. Tammy Hudson [unintelligible]
10 For eight residential lots along with an eighty- 10 remodeled throughway area. Both
11 one point nine acre agricultural out lot on the 11 [unintelligible] indicated no causes of the
12 east half of the east half of the northeast 12 proposal.
13 quarter of Section 6. Touch one north and part 13 We have received no correspondence from
14 of the southeast quarter of Section 30 and part 14 surrounding property owners. The Planning
15 of the east half of the east half of Section 31, 15 Commission did ask that the FAA be contacted to
16 Township 3 all in Range 65 West,six PM, 16 insure compliance with their regulations. The
17 [unintelligible],Colorado. 17 applicant has done so and is proposing the
18 Notice was published March 10th,2004 in the 18 following language to change condition 2x,and I
19 Fort Lofton[phonetic] Press and evidence of 19 will give a copy of the typical language changes
20 this posting by photograph and affidavit has 20 to the Chair.
21 been provided by staff. 21 The State proposed the change to building
22 MALE VOICE 3: Okay. Good afternoon Sherry. 22 height;protection of walls [unintelligible]
23 SHERRY HALL: Good afternoon. Sherry Hall 23 separation of buildings of mixed occupancy shall
24 for the Department of Planning Services. 24 be in accordance with the building code.
25 Morris,Jake and Mark Holiday have applied 25 Setbacks and offset distances shall be
2 4
1 for a change in zone from agricultural to PUD 1 determined by Chapter 20 [unintelligible]County
2 for eight lots. And the State [unintelligible] 2 Code. And as required by Federal Aviation
3 one,eighty acre agricultural out lot. The 3 Regulation Part 77 outlined by the FAA Form
4 signed announcement of Board of County 4 7460-1, [unintelligible] approaches,
5 Commissioners Hearing was posted on March 15, 5 construction and alteration.
6 2004,by Planning staff. 6 The applicants also recorded a change in
7 Red Barron Estates is located west and 7 condition number 2k. Originally the intention
8 adjacent to County Road 39 and north and 8 was for each homeowner approved model permit,
9 adjacent to State Highway 52. Plat 9 however because of the time limitations to drill
10 [unintelligible] parcels north and west of the 10 before the permit expires, the applicant is
11 site. Red Barron Estates is intended to be a 11 requesting the following change to that language
12 community for the owners of airplanes to live 12 which would read: Lot owners are responsible
13 and store their aircraft. Each lot would pay a 13 for obtaining their own well permit. At time of
14 fee to the Pot Belly Air Park for the use of the 14 closing each lot owner will be[unintelligible]
15 existing runway. The applicant is proposing 15 to a five four acre feet of gravel road from the
16 individual well and septic systems. Division of 16 Fox Hills Aquifer pursuant to case number 03-
17 Water Resources have approved the water supply 17 CW061 dated October 29,2003. County staff has
18 plan. No water has been allocated for the 18 reviewed the water pipeline and that is a
19 agricultural out lot. A twenty thousand gallon 19 correct figure.
20 cistern is being proposed to store water for the 20 The owner has submitted a letter requesting
21 fire protection. Surrounding properties are 21 that the case be administered with review at
22 agricultural in nature with very few homes in 22 final plans. The Department of Planning
23 the vicinity. The ag lot configuration was not 23 services is in agreement with both the
24 intentional. This wild piece of property has 24 recommended language changes and the final
25 just been deeded in this configuration. Um, 25 planning and administrative review.
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I 1 The [unintelligible] Planning Commission did 1 SHERRY HALL: Are you talking about the
2 recommend approval of Red Barron Estates. The 2 accessory buildings?
3 applicant is being represented by Mr.Alan 3 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: Yeah,
I 4 Taylor. 4 talking about,I thought it was all the
5 [Unintelligible] of the area. I'll just go 5 buildings. No it's accessory building will not
6 over really quick.That is the airpark. The _ 6 exceed eight percent. But we've got five
I 7 [unintelligible] hearings pretty much work the 7 percent,
8 same. Okay. I'll be happy to take any 8 SHERRY HALL: [Interposing] It's normally a
9 questions you may have. 9 four percent rule,the only thing we add is
I 10 MALE VOICE 3: Thanks Sherry. Any questions 10 because their in relation to airplane hangars,
11 for Sherry? Commissioner Jensen[phonetic] 11 they very well may need a bigger building than
12 COMMISSIONER JENSEN: Thank you,Mr. 12 your normal subdivision. So,they asked for an
13 Chairman. Sherry do you know if the division of 13 exception to that rule.
14 Water Resources has seen that language dealing 14 COMMISSIONER [UNINTELLIGIBLE]: This would
15 with having developed deed each property owner a 15 be an exception.
16 portion of an acre foot for the Fox Hills? 16 SHERRY HALL: Correct. And we are allowed
I 17 SHERRY HALL: The deeding of the water 17 to do that to the PUD.
18 wasn't included but in their review,the do list 18 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: All right,
19 that amount for each lot to be able to get their 19 the other thing would be the agriculture lot;
I 20 well permit. How we are required to do that 20 I'm still trying to figure that out. If you
21 whether it was through the homeowners 21 take a look at Well Canon Road 49,yeah there
22 association of through each individual lot was 22 you go,and you have the subdivision up there
I 23 not discussed actually with the division. I 23 and then you come down and what would be 49,
24 don't think there would be a problem with it but 24 that would be the eighty three acres down where
25 we can double check with the division on it. 25 you have the next little box south of the
I 6 8
1 COMMISSIONER JENSEN: I don't know it just 1 airpark PUD,isn't that right. So all of that
I 2 strikes me as peculiar. Maybe I just haven't 2 right on 49 would be the eighty-three acres?
3 had experience in that area. It just seems 3 SHERRY HALL: correct.
4 strange to me to,because usually a well permit 4 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: could you
I 5 is just a permit to pump some water. And in a 5 point that out.
6 sense to deed that in that manner seems just a 6 SHERRY HALL: [unintelligible] to the most
7 little different.I don't know,one of you guys 7 northern.
8 experiences in this area if that would be a 8 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: Could you
9 [unintelligible] if it seems to be the proper 9 point it out just so that everybody's clear on
10 way to do that or not. It just strikes me as a 10 that.
11 little strange. 11 SHERRY HALL: This is where the homes are
I 12 SHERRY HALL: Ms.Terra [phonetic]has 12 going to be located. The rest,all the way down
13 worked extensively with the Division of Water 13 to 52 is where the agricultural plat lot is.
14 Resources to get this thing through. I'm sure 14 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: Okay.
I 15 she'd[unintelligible] this but I don't know. 15 SHERRY HALL:You may remember this site
16 COMMISSIONER JENSEN: Okay. 16 from,I forget the applicant's name,we did have
17 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? 17 a rental road,
I 18 Commissioner [unintelligible]. 18 MALE VOICE: Don Drawer [phonetic].
19 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: Yeah,I had 19 MALE VOICE: Don Drawer.
20 two questions for Sherry. The first one has to 20 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: Is that?
I 21 do with the eight percent of the total area. 21 SHERRY HALL: Yeah, [unintelligible] there
22 Usually we have that,as five percent of the 22 was a road and a right of way there. It's if
23 total area can be the building envelopes. But 23 filled in. [Unintelligible].
I 24 we're talking about eight percent or have I 24 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: I guess, in
25 misread that rule? 25 the application I had a hard time determining 't
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01 1 what they're going to do with that land. Is it 1 they're larger lots,they're going to have more
2 going to be the home owner's association's 2 [unintelligible] building footprints on them
3 responsibility? Or,what is your sense about 3 than with lots this size. So,otherwise,I
M 4 what is going to happen to the use of that land? 4 don't have any other comments. I'd be happy to
5 SHERRY HALL: Well I asked Mr.Taylor about 5 answer questions.
6 that and as this point in time they decided to 6 CHAIRMAN: Okay,questions?
IN 7 maintain the ownership of that land. If they do 7 MALE VOICE: Okay,if I could Mr.Chairman,
8 bring cattle onto it,which is one thing they're 8 urn, the water situation this comes through the
9 considering doing,they're going to bring water 9 state water engineers. As I've tried to
Il 10 in for it. They are planning on trucking in 10 understand this,uh, it would be enough to
11 water if they decide they want to put cattle in. 11 irrigate five thousand feet,including providing
12 COMMISSIONER UNINTELLIGIBLE: Okay and maybe 12 potable water to the properties. But anything
13 this question might be[unintelligible] when we 13 outside of the five thousand feet would more or
Ill 14 get to him,but you know that's going to,one of 14 less require some other source of water or just
15 the conditions is that they will pave Well 15 to put it into some kind of natural vegetation.
16 County Road 49. And we're out this way too, 16 But there was a statement made that there was
ill17 [unintelligible]. 17 enough,that there would be,that the state
18 MALE VOICE: Just for your reference it's 18 engineer would not have any problem with the
19 Well County Road 39. 19 amount of water providing those particular
IN 20 COMMISSIONER[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: Or 39, 20 provisions were implemented,which would be the
21 whatever it is. Thirty-nine,you're right. 21 five thousand square foot. And then also the,
22 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions of Sherry? 22 the need for a family living in one of the
4 23 MALE VOICE: One question I have Sherry,um, 23 homes. Is that,is that a correct
24 I know they've got the twenty thousand gallon 24 interpretation?
25 cistern,and it has to be maintained and kept 25 PAM SMITH: Yes sir,that is correct.
4 10 12
1 full all the time. There's no fire hydrants. 1 MALE VOICE: Okay.
NI 2 It's just,just a cistern. 2 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions for Pam?
3 SHERRY HALL: Right. They couldn't keep 3 Sherry, I have one that I just remembered. Now,
4 pressure with-- 4 the homeowner's association,or the people that
IN5 MALE VOICE: Fire flow. 5 buy these lots,do they pay a fee to the
6 SHERRY HALL: The couldn't keep pressure 6 airpark? Is that?
7 with the cistern, [unintelligible]. 7 SHERRY HALL: To use it, I believe there's a
8 MALE VOICE: Yeah,you'd have to elevate it 8 ten thousand dollar fee at closing.
9 to get the hydrostatic end so. Okay. 9 CHAIRMAN:So,they're,this is also tied to
10 CHAIRMAN: all right. Any other questions? 10 the airpark to a degree?
11 Ron? Thanks Sherry. Any questions of public 11 SHERRY HALL: To a degree.
II12 health today Pam? 12 CHAIRMAN: Okay. Because I was just trying
13 PAM SMITH: Pam Smith, Well County Health 13 to make that correlation there. There is a tie
14 Department, I don't have any comments,well 14 there. All right. Thank you. Peter?
U 15 maybe a couple of brief comments. Preliminary 15 PETER SHAY[PHONETIC]: Yes,good afternoon
16 perk information says that this will meet 16 Mr. Chairman Mazden [phonetic] and
17 conditional septic systems for up to four and a 17 Commissioners. Peter Shay,Department of
P 18 half acres. There will be individual wells on 18 Health,Public Works. A couple of things to
19 there so they're,because they're going to have 19 notice with this development is that the
20 a building,hangar and taxi way, I've asked that 20 development is along a section of County Road 39
In 21 they put primary and secondary septic off loads 21 that does not exist at this time. We are asking
22 on the lots just so that we know where they're 22 the applicant to build that section of roadway,
23 at and that they're protected and that they meet 23 running from, basically extending County Road 39
II 24 the hundred foot setback for all wells. Because 24 to the south. Okay. It would be up in this
25 these lots are going to have more,even though 25 area down along the uh,development itself here.
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A 1 Urn,that portion of roadway is planned close to 1 39 would terminate in the temporary cul-de-sac
2 EDA recycled asphalt um surfaces. It's not 2 that would accommodate a larger vehicle such as
3 paved. There is a section of existing roadway, 3 a bus. And that's something that we have looked
4 which is County Road 39 that extends north to 4 at at least as far as a provision of terminating
5 County Road 18,and we're asking the applicant 5 Well County Road 39. So,I believe that there
6 to urn basically share a proportional agreement 6 would be some accommodation there as far as a
7 for the road statements adjacent to that section 7 turn around. And you know,and any traffic there
8 of the country road. Shows on the offsite 8 basically to the south, [unintelligible] south.
9 transportation issues that we have look at. We 9 CHAIRMAN: All right. I guess just one
10 have addressed the onsite roadway within the 10 other question is, they are not looking at at
11 development itself. And earlier in this process 11 opening up road 16 coming in from 41?
12 we had asked the applicant to pave the interior 12 PETER SHAY: Correct.
13 road because under the definition of the code 13 CHAIRMAN: That will stay as is?
14 that we have now,this is adjacent to an 14 PETER SHAY: Correct.
15 existing PUD and technically that is a urban 15 CHAIRMAN: Okay.
16 setting so urn,the code had required that paving 16 PETER SHAY: That is not included in this
17 be looked at and referenced to that perspective. 17 development.
18 At my commission, it was agreed that this 18 CHAIRMAN:Okay.
19 internal roadway would not have to be paved and 19 PETER SHAY: It was not entertained.
20 a paving waiver was granted by the County 20 CHAIRMAN: All right. That's,I wanted to,
21 Commission.That road resurface will be of the 21 I know there was some questions on that so,all
22 recycled asphalt urn,pavement basically. It's 22 right thank you.
23 just recycled asphalt. And that is a very good 23 PETER SHAY: You're welcome.
24 surface as far as keeping the dust down. I'd be 24 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions of Public
25 happy to take any questions. 25 Works?
14 16
1 CHAIRMAN: Okay,questions of Public Works? 1 MALE VOICE: [Unintelligible] staff.Uh
2 Peter, I have one. 2 Sherry,what will be the nature of the
3 PETER SHAY: Yes? 3 transportation road impact? Will that be just a
4 CHAIRMAN: A designation for um school bus 4 residential assessment?
5 pickup,where might that be? 5 SHERRY BOTT: We don't see that they have
6 PETER SHAY: Um,the route a school bus 6 any more impact than a normal residence because
7 would have to take to get to this development 7 they are planning part of that is going to be-
8 would need to come off of County Road 18 from 8 MALE VOICE: So we haven't established that
9 the north. And then Well County Road 39. I need 9 yet?
10 to um,I need to, I need some help from my 10 SHERRY BOTT: Yeah. They haven't
11 colleague Sherry Bott[phonetic] on this point a 11 established it yet and I will return to that,
12 designation for a bus pickup. 12 but I wouldn't foresee any additional impact to
13 SHERRY BOTT: The applicants have stated all 13 the roadways because of the airplanes.
14 along that this will be mostly probably people 14 MALE VOICE: Okay. Thank you.
15 that will not have a lot of children. School 15 CHAIRMAN: Any further questions of staff?
16 bus tended to agree. It didn't ask for 16 If not,I have a representative for the
17 [unintelligible] or bus location. And instead, 17 applicant here. Come to the lectern or come to
18 it will designate for a location it will just 18 the table, give your name and address please.
19 have to be an operable, kind of[unintelligible] 19 MARILYN TAYLOR: Marilyn Taylor,7507
20 pick up and loading. So, they didn't require 20 [unintelligible] Fort Lofton [unintelligible].
21 any specific accommodations 21 I am the authorized agent for Red Barron
22 CHAIRMAN: All right. 22 Development and also I'm in general partners for
23 PETER SHAY: I'd like to add to that, 23 platting the airport.
24 Chairman, um,the section of roads that we're 24 First of all,I wanted to just answer some
25 asking the applicant to build on to County Road 25 of the questions you asked about the water.
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MI 1 Then a few other items. We started over a year 1 Mile Baptist Church fire cistern,he was telling
2 ago,working with Kim Barnes,the water 2 us that they've improved even now the valves to
3 attorney,and also Forrest Lee [phonetic] water 3 make the pressure greater to get the water out
I 4 engineer,getting the water established because 4 so,um,I guess the reference would be the one
5 we knew we couldn't go forward at all until we 5 at Four Mile Baptist Church.
6 had water established with the three hundred 6 And then the fire department has,will be
I 7 year water supply. And initially,because it 7 filling it for us for the first time. They'll
8 was such a major issue,we wanted the lot owners 8 come out and check it out and fill it. And then
9 to know that they did have a well permit and we 9 thereafter we have to maintain it and that's in
I 10 had plenty of water and that wouldn't be a 10 the HOA as well. The home owners maintain the
11 problem to get water. So, when we first started 11 fire cistern,make sure that it's full at all
12 marketing we said each lot would come with a 12 times and in working order. And if for some
13 well permit. But when I called to see about how 13 reason we had to use it,then it's the HOA's
II14 to get eight well permits,even though we could 14 responsibility to refill it. And we have a
15 designate on the plat the location,the water 15 source [unintelligible]for them to do that.
16 division, down town told me that you probably 16 On the building envelopes and the septic and
I 17 don't want to offer a well permit because 17 the well permits,we have completed our change
18 there's a year expiration date on there. So, if 18 of zone map to show that the envelopes and
19 we were to sell the water permit with the lot, 19 proposed well locations and proposed septic
II 20 people would have to renew it in a year anyway. 20 locations and a primary and secondary septic
21 And that they might not want it in the exact 21 system. And we've also included on that plat,
22 location that we chose to have it in,depending 22 the drainage and the retention ponds and so the
NI 23 on where the septic was and they had to adhere 23 building envelopes and the septic and the well
24 to all those regulations so far from the septic 24 correspond to the location of the retention
25 and so far from the other obstructions. But 25 ponds based on the drainage of the land so that
I 18 20
1 they suggested that we just,I said how many can 1 there isn't any seepage or sewage or whatever.
I 2 we purchase and turn so that people will know 2 So,we've addressed that issue.
3 that they do have water. They suggested leaving 3 On the fee to plat valley,Mark and Lori are
4 it a proportion of the water basin with the 4 both partners in Plat Valley and as well as I
I 5 water preset to each individual lot so they 5 am. So when we decided to do this project,
6 would know that they do have guaranteed water 6 because the airport couldn't [unintelligible]
7 for domestic well use and a five thousand square 7 the land and we didn't want it to go to anyone
8 foot yard and landscape care. And then also in 8 else. We wanted to make it beneficial to Plat
II9 our covenants, it outlines the water 9 Valley as well because we're all partners in the
10 restrictions. And also outlines the usage and 10 airport and it's a mutual venture. And so,we
11 saying that they can't use it for any 11 offered to pay Plat Valley a ten thousand dollar
I 12 agricultural or livestock use or whatever. So, 12 access fee for use of their airport. Just
13 it's basically that[unintelligible] issue in 13 because it benefits all of us. It benefits the
14 there is just to guarantee that the lot owners 14 limited partners, it benefits [unintelligible]
I 15 will in fact be able to drill a well. That 15 as well. Um, it basically there's a
16 satisfies the three hundred year water supply. 16 [unintelligible] fee,they call it. And it's
17 And then on the fire cistern,um,we're 17 really quite high compared to what other
I 18 installing one just like they have at the Four 18 airports might want to do but because we're, you
19 Mile Baptist Church. And if you've ever driven 19 know we want to see Plat Valley grow and thrive
20 by there, I wasn't sure how they would get the 20 as well,we offered to do that. So,that's part
I 21 water out of the cistern,either that they're 21 of our payment,once they close on the lot, to
22 just some like spouts or whatever, or to an area 22 Plat Valley. So, that's where that ten thousand
23 of the tank. And then it depends on, I ran into 23 dollar fee they're paying in. Some from Red
III 24 kind of valves that they put on. And when I 24 Barron Estates and Plat Valley will get eighty
25 talked to the company that installed the Four 25 thousand dollars basically to start with. Then
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1 in our covenants,and our hangar home owners 1 termination date. It would remain in effect so
2 association,we have written in there urn that 2 it would be in perpetuity.
3 the eight lots at Red Barron Estates will share 3 MS.TAYLOR: No,it's in perpetuity for as
4 proportionately with the cost of maintenance and 4 long as the development is there. And the other
5 upkeep for the airport runway and the taxi ways 5 issue about
6 that they would be using to go to and from the 6 [Break in audio from 24:39.4 to 25:18.5]
7 fuel system. So it's not only just a one-time 7 The aviator outlook,the reason Red Barron
8 payment,it's an HOA homeowners association that 8 Development is hanging on to that instead of
9 will pay proportionately for the use of the 9 turning it over to the homeowners association is
10 airport. Just like the hangar owners 10 because it doesn't really offer any urn public
11 association does now with the hangars that are 11 activity or any entertainment or recreational
12 there. Based on the number of airplanes and the 12 use. It's such a strange shaped piece of land
13 number of hangars,the airport hangar owners pay 13 we couldn't put anything on there.So rather
14 proportionately to do plowing to do mowing,to 14 than make it the responsibility of the home
15 do any cracked sealing that we have to do or 15 owners association to keep it mowed and keep it
16 whatever. And the HOA up at Red Barron would do 16 maintained,Red Barron Development will be doing
17 the same thing. 17 that. If it has to be mowed,we'll mow it. We
18 And regarding school bus pickup. I talked 18 have a weed management plan already submitted to
19 with Dr. Reagan[phonetic] like Sherry said, 19 Ron Rhoda[phonetic] that will be included in
20 when we first proposed to them that we would do 20 our application as well. So,in the weed
21 an offload and an on load he replied and said 21 management plan for the eighty acre out lot
22 that we could do a pickup somewhere around 39 or 22 would be the responsibility of Red Barron
23 52 if the need arose. And then we wrote back 23 Development. And in each of the,there's a lot
24 and told him that we weren't going to,we 24 owner also that's another issue we put in the
25 wouldn't be having access to 52. So,it would 25 covenant,has to adhere to the weed management
22 24
1 have to be on 39. And he's agreeable to that. 1 plan for that portion of their lot that is not
2 And then on post box area that's not on the plat 2 included in that five thousand square foot of um
3 either, the Fort Lofton Post Office has written 3 landscaping.
4 us a letter and requested that each individual 4 MALE VOICE: Thank you.
5 lot owner have their own postbox so that's two 5 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
6 items that are normally required on the plat, 6 Commissioner Jensen.
7 we've gotten variances for. 7 COMMISSIONER JENSEN: Comment first and then
8 CHAIRMAN: Any questions,excuse me. 8 a question. I hope that your homeowners don't
9 MALE VOICE: I have a question Mr. Chairman. 9 have to spend more time fighting weeds than they
10 Does the homeowners association have a 10 do flying.
11 termination date or a provision,which in 11 MS.TAYLOR: I do too.
12 essence addresses a termination date? 12 COMMISSIONER JENSEN: And then the question,
13 MS. TAYLOR: Um,no. 13 regarding a letter from the state engineer,
14 MALE VOICE: so it would be a perfect- 14 dated February 6th,it just confuses me a little
15 MS.TAYLOR: We just have our bylaws and our 15 bit because it says that the current decree on
16 articles of incorporation. It's, it runs with 16 the water,it says that there's a hundred year
17 the property. 17 aquifer life. And then it states that uh,
18 MALE VOICE: Thank you. 18 according to county regs that we need to have a
19 MS.TAYLOR: But that's how the provisions 19 three hundred year water supply. I'm trying to
20 for amendment. 20 figure out which is which.
21 MALE VOICE: No,I just wanted to make sure 21 MS.TAYLOR: Well those three hundred year
22 that there isn't, with cisterns that they,you 22 water supplies,what they were referring to,and
23 know, involve land useation's [sic] involved, 23 there's a follow up letter after that letter,
24 within your, I just wanted to make sure that 24 written by Forrest Leif,our water engineer.
25 there wasn't,you know,a twenty year 25 There is an existing well permit on there right
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1 now. And it was issued in'86 and it,that was 1 approved covenants and bylaws. And is that for
2 before they came up with the three hundred year 2 the purpose of recording those?So,the bylaws,
3 water supply. So the water well permit that's 3 the homeowners association are in recorded
4 on there now is for the entire acreage and it is 4 documents?
5 a one hundred year water supply but it included 5 FEMALE VOICE: Right now we have a
6 in the water decree that we have issued that's 6 preliminary copy the changes haven't been made
7 on file with the water division right now. It 7 to,we requested,and they haven't been approved
8 includes that, that well and converts that well 8 by the County Attorney's Office. Prior to
9 to the three hundred year water supply rule in 9 recording the final plat,we receive signed
10 addition to the other well permits that they're 10 copies that have made all those changes.
11 issuing. And that's not the letter that's with 11 MALE VOICE: I was aware of one instance,
12 the application. So,what we've done is I've 12 not this one,where the homeowner's association
13 issued a letter to the water commission to re- 13 bylaws didn't get recorded. People bought the
14 permit that well, to [unintelligible] the water 14 lots and now it wasn't that easy to do them so.
15 decree because it was actually involved in that 15 FEMALE VOICE: Right. That's a condition we
16 water decree in the first place. The water 16 haven't seen much before,where in
17 decree that we have right now, that's filed with 17 [unintelligible] nowadays to make sure
18 the County,the Water Judge, allows us to have 18 [unintelligible].
19 eight new wells and use the existing other well 19 MALE VOICE: Thank you.
20 on there beuase in the beginning when we first 20 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
21 started to get our water decree and do our water 21 MALE VOICE: Marilyn,I have one,speaking
22 research and legality,we were going to have 22 about the right of way going down to 52. And
23 nine lots and then in order to get an easement 23 Peter, is there right of way,does the County
24 all the way down to 52 in case one of these 24 have right of way down to Highway 52 or not?
25 years we do need to do a road there,we had to 25 PETER SHAY: There is either existing right
26 28
1 take the acreage away from the ninth lot and put 1 of way and this,how you might say,can
2 it into an easement down to 52. So,we didn't 2 checkerboard going down that stretch. But the
3 change the water decree because we were halfway 3 applicant in those areas where there is not
4 through that. We just,we have actually eight 4 right of way has said that they would dedicate
5 new well permits and use the existing well 5 the right of way along their side,section line.
6 that's on the property now. So,we re-permit 6 MALE VOICE: Okay. So, is that a railroad
7 the existing well that's on one of the lots. 7 section line down through there then basically?
8 And then just um,do well permits for seven more 8 And there's only so much on 31 and not 32?
9 wells. Did that answer your question about 9 PETER SHAY: Um, I can get you;I can get
10 that? 10 the exact sections. There's a section in there
11 COMMISSIONER JENSEN: Oh,it makes an 11 that does not have right of way on the west
12 attempt,but not really. I think that some of 12 side,which would be the applicant's side of the
13 my satisfaction comes from the fact that this is 13 section. And they are proposing to dedicate the
14 a change of zone and I guess the county will be 14 right of way all along that parcel. Basically
15 able to keep watching after this for some time 15 um, from the north end to the south end they
16 to come to make sure that indeed the water is 16 will be dedicating a right of way for--
17 permitted properly,so we get another bite at 17 MALE VOICE: would you draw a visual-?
18 the apple with this. 18 MALE VOICE: Yeah, absolutely.
19 CHAIRMAN: Okay,any further questions? 19 MALE VOICE: Does that mean we'll have
20 MALE VOICE: I guess my,and maybe this is 20 dedicated right of way from 18 all the way to 52
21 more appropriate of staff,on I guess its', 21 then?
22 maybe it's the conditions of approval 22 PETER SHAY: Correct.
23 development standards. On page ten,prior to 23 MALE VOICE: At least on one side?
24 recording the plats,number five, letter A. 24 PETER SHAY: Correct.
25 This has to do with original copies, the 25 MALE VOICE: And that will be thirty feet?
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I 1 PETER SHAY: Correct. 1 mom's property,thirty feet. The guy at the
2 MALE VOICE: Okay. That's what I was 2 mapping place said that the County has two
3 wondering. Okay. All right. Thank you. 3 choices.They can buy another thirty feet. Or
I 4 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions of the 4 they can condemn thirty feet and put the road on
5 applicant? All right. Thank you. 5 my mom's property. So,this is why Fm here. I
6 Now we'll open this up,the public portion 6 think you've got Red Barron Estates wants their
I 7 of this hearing for public comment. Anybody who 7 houses;I'm going to be a good neighbor. I'm
8 would like to come and speak on this application 8 not going to object. Go ahead and build. Put
9 for or against,can come to the lectern,give 9 the road on Red Barron Estates and not on my
10 your name and address and your comments. 10 mom's property. I mean you guys can do that.
I 11 RUSS RILEY: My name is Russ Riley. I live 11 They can do it.They can agree to it. Put it in
12 at 6261 Well County Road 41,Fort Lofton, 12 the minutes and say the road will be over there
13 Colorado 80621. My mom,I was born and raised 13 because we've got a sprinkler on that quarter
I14 there. My mom and my dad,and my mom now,owns 14 and that sprinkler was there in the late
15 the corner where you see CR16 that quarter right 15 sixties. And at that time,we never dreamed of
16 there. And uh,on Section 32. And uh,am I for 16 a road being opened [unintelligible]. So,if
I 17 or against it,I guess it,on any given day you 18 ask me that question I'd be yes or no. I can't 17 they put the road on mom's property,we're going
18 to have to move our sprinklers. Now they say
19 say that they shouldn't do it because it's,I 19 they're not planning on a road right away,but
I 20 mean,it's a piece of property that can't be, 20 that's what they say now. Maybe a year from now
21 nothing grows on it anyhow. I'm not ready for 21 people will get tired of driving all the way
22 housing,houses,I uh,won't actually lose my 22 around and want that road opened up. County
I 23 privacy up there. But uh,so I can't really say 23 comes in and says hey,we're going to take
24 I'm for or against it.The only thing at the 24 thirty feet,condemn thirty feet, move your
25 Planning Commission that I was really 25 sprinkler,cut it off or whatever,and we can't
I 30 32
1 questioning was fences. And I was told by the, 1 do anything about it. I mean, I'm just; this is
I 2 that the County don't have any obligation for 2 why I'm here. Let's do the road issue. Plus
3 fences, it's up to the property owner. And urn, 3 also, if God's willing, I might get enough money
4 I was worried about the roads. And um,Mr. 4 to put up a new fence. If I put up a new fence
I 5 [unintelligible] said that Road 16 probably 5 and then the County comes in and says, we're
6 wouldn't be open and they said yeah,it probably 6 going to put a road here. Then I've got to tear
7 would never be opened. We, [unintelligible] 7 down my fence and I've got to do all this work
8 farms uh has four more of my moms. We tried to 8 over again. So,let's,let's get the, that's
I9 close 16 at one time. Don Gerald [phonetic] 9 what I'm here for. Let's, where the red line
10 said that they wouldn't close it because of 10 is,let's make that the borderline and then put
11 future use to the airport. So, I did learn 11 Evans over here and Milliken over there. You
I 12 something today. All that two hours this 12 know. Put the road over,let's put the road
13 morning is that things can,subject to change 13 over,I drove [unintelligible] this morning.
14 down the road. So right now, they say 16 won't 14 Put the road over on Red Barron Estates. That's
I 15 be opened. Two, three years from now,will it 15 all I've got to say about it. And then the
16 be opened? I hate to see 16 opened. Now, to 16 water issue I guess you guys are
17 address Road 39. I've done some homework on 17 [unintelligible] will keep on the water issue.
I 18 that. There is this old map, I don't know what 19 it's called,it's an 1839 map and they have 18 Cause we need to watch out for the water too.
19 But like I say,I'm not against them. I mean
20 these lines on it. And the right of way for 39 20 let them put their houses. They're going to be
0 21 is on Section 30. The right of way for 39 is on 21 nice houses and if they don't mind a spotlight
22 Section 32. And then you go down to Section 6, 22 shining in the window during calving season,
23 it's back on but Section 6 right of way kind of 23 then I don't mind their houses.
I 24 goes like this. I don't know why it did that. 24 CHAIRMAN: Thanks Rusty. Any questions-
25 So, actually the right of way would be on my 25 MALE VOICE: But that doesn't break up the
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I 1 point, there is the farm, the right to farm 1 personalities,essentially that operated the
2 provision included in here isn't there? 2 first PUD, I'm just [unintelligible]
3 MS.TAYLOR: Oh yes. 3 consideration that the fulfillments of that PUD
I 4 MALE VOICE: Okay. 4 are incomplete. And it should be part of your
5 CHAIRMAN: Any other comments or- 5 consideration. In your approval of this PUD.
6 MALE VOICE: I think Rusty,on that, if that 6 The airport itself is a major amenity, which
I 7 part of right away is on Section 32 on your 7 make Red Barron Estates a feasible venture. And
8 mom's property. And then it sounds like the 8 I'm not certain of the financial viability of
9 applicant's going to give thirty feet on their 9 the airport itself. It needs to be there
I 10 side, so that makes thirty feet on each side of 11 the section line. They wouldn't take an 10 almost, well for a long time,in order to make
11 the promises of an airport fly in community
12 additional thirty feet from your mom's side on 12 viable. I have a limited partner. I have never
I 13 Section 32. So, they wouldn't be taking any more 13 seen a financial report. Never seen promised
14 than what there already is there. 14 quarterly reports. I have no idea what the
15 RUSS RILEY: Well I went over and talked to 15 financial status is. I do know that the escrow
I 16 Leslie and she said that she's willing to work 16 money, perhaps not all released,seems to be
17 with us and stuff so,maybe that's pretty well 17 insufficient for completing the airpark
18 [unintelligible] or something. 18 community in terms of paving and other and
19 CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any further questions? 19 drainage and these things generate considerable
I 20 Thanks. Is there anyone else here today have 20 concern. Marilyn said that the ten thousand
21 comments on this application? Come up; give 21 dollar fee to be collected with each lot sale
22 your name and address for the record please. 22 would benefit the limited partners. I would
I 23 FRED GARDNER: I'm Fred Gardner. I live 23 like to know how that will then benefit each and
24 Lakewood,Colorado,at 1855 South Evans,zip 24 all limited partners. I may not find that out.
25 80232. I own property in the airpark PUD. And 25 I don't expect you to tell me. But I don't
I 34 36
1 I'm a member of the limited partners that 1 know. It's never been, there has never been any
I 2 Marilyn also is a member of. And I have a third 2 discussion with the limited partners about this.
3 interest, which is another HOA known as the 3 And she also mentioned that there would be a
4 hangar owner's association in the Plat Valley 4 proportional fee charged to each homeowner for
I 5 Airpark. I'm the treasurer for that 5 support of airport maintenance,such as crack
6 organization from its inception. 6 filling,weed mowing,snow removal. At the
7 I'd like to make several comments for your 7 present time, the agreement is that the hangar
8 consideration. For clarification, the large 8 owner's association will pay fifty percent of
9 bold print that says Airport PUD is not where 9 those expenses. And the airport will pay fifty
10 the airpark PUD that I'm acquainted with is. 10 percent of those expenses. And that's the way
11 It's located up in the green area shown at the 11 we've been operating. It's not clear to me,and
12 top of the gray diagram,just adjacent to the 12 I think it should be defined,how the new
13 letters USR1322. There's a ten-acre development 13 homeowners group will proportionately support.
14 that was platted in the mid 90's,approved by 14 Will it be that we're reduced to forty percent
15 resolution here at a meeting in February of'97, 15 and the airport's forty percent,and they take
16 with some concerns about funding and collateral, 16 up twenty percent-I'd like to know how that
17 which were addressed February 19th. And the 17 works.
I 18 basic,the basic program is that there be 18 I would like to think that the hangar
19 escrowed funds to um,pay for improvements in 19 owner's association would not still be obligated
20 the airpark PUD of 1997. Um,as a property 20 to pay fifty percent and that the airport would
21 owner in that airpark PUD,I can tell you that 21 take the money from the new development.
22 the PUD promises are incomplete,unfulfilled. 22 I also am concerned that the viability issue
23 And have had quite a bit of resistance in 23 for the airport is impacted by the fact that all
I 24 requests that people fill. 24 the lots were sold and there was no continuing
25 Since this PUD is peopled by the same 25 fee to be paid to the airport,which leaves them
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1 in a,in a negative cash flow position as far as 1 some questions. So you're,seven of the eight
2 their development. And it seems like the very 2 lots have already been sold,so this property,
3 same practice is going to be carried forward 3 this-
4 here.There will be a fee paid for services,but 4 FRED GARDNER: No,no sir. There's two PUDs
5 the airport has not continuing benefit frem 5 and I'm referring to the 1997.
6 selling these lots.Once they're sold,their 6 MALE VOICE: Okay,I,sometimes I don't hear
7 income is gone and there won't be any more. 7 very good.
8 That's not really my business,but I'm concerned 8 FRED GARDNER: Sure and I probably talked
9 in this area of airport financial viability. 9 too fast.There were thirty-nine lots platted in
10 That there seems to be no plan to fund this 10 that PUD. At this time, thirty-seven have been
11 airport by the users. It's just a sell the 11 sold. And the deadline, or the time schedule
12 lots,take the money,and rejoice in the big sum 12 for doing the amenities,the paving,was per lot
13 that you get up front. But it doesn't last very 13 sales,as the lots were sold. And it wasn't
14 long. It goes away. 14 done that way.
15 I'd like to come back to the issue of not 15 MALE VOICE: I understand.Thank you sir.
16 completing the original PUD. The primary 16 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
17 paragraphs,the very beginning of that PUD 17 MALE VOICE: How many of the lots have been
18 specifically declares that the developers, 18 sold now?
19 Marilyn Taylor and the Airpark Associates,would 19 FRED GARNER: In the Airpark Hangar owners
20 furnish engineering services,that they would do 20 PUD, there are thirty-seven lots sold out of
21 testing,that they would have construction 21 thirty-nine that were made available.
22 supervision and that the improvements to the 22 MALE VOICE: And all the amenities, paving
23 property would be made on a schedule was 23 and drainage,have not been completed?
24 designated as the lots are sold. At this time, 24 FRED GARDNER: That's correct.
25 thirty-seven of the thirty-nine lots have been 25 MALE VOICE: Okay.
38 40
1 sold. And the improvements are deficient. They 1 FRED GARDNER: The drainage plan was to
2 have not been completed. Specifically drainage 2 include a detention pond and uh, the location of
3 and paving are the two major areas. Our hangar 3 that detention pond specified by Marilyn Taylor
4 building has been erected for five years and was 4 and Associates,was inconvenient for them.
5 originally paved insufficiently with no drainage 5 Because it would require them to move an
6 construction. The water that accumulated ran 6 existing building. So,they apparently got
7 through our building,into our building and 7 permission to establish that detention pond in
8 through our building,and finally last fall,we 8 another area. But they haven't done that yet
9 spent the money on our own to mitigate two types 9 either. And of course, the drainage impact on
10 of damages. One,the damage to our business 10 our building was disturbing to say the least so
11 plans because the paving grading was done 11 we,we felt like we had to mitigate that damage
12 insufficiently to have an enticing hangar for 12 by doing it ourselves. It wasn't done by the
13 rent,hangar area for rent. And the second 13 airport.
14 mitigating factor was that we were experiencing 14 MALE VOICE: So you did the drainage and the
15 damage to our foundation. We had to improve the 15 pavement?
16 drainage on our own. We couldn't rely any 16 FRED GARDNER: We did. Yes,we completed
17 longer on waiting for Airpark to do it. So, I 17 and improved the paving that they had given us.
18 just want you to know that the track record for 18 They didn't give us what they promised in the
19 the existing PUD,in my view,is unsatisfactory 19 original negotiations. They gave us driveways
20 and there should be considerable caution 20 instead of a solid ramp,which is
21 exercised as you make your decision on this 21 disadvantageous to our airplane hangar renters.
22 approval. Thank you very much. 22 And the drainage issues were of even more
23 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. And questions,Fred? 23 concern to us. When I said we had to mitigate
24 FRED GARDNER: I'm sorry. I'll come back. 24 damage to our business plan I'm referring to
25 MALE VOICE: I guess I did. I need to ask 25 completing the paving so that we have more
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1 attractive hangars to rent. The second part was 1 the same parties. For improvements at the
2 mitigating the drainage problems that we had. 2 airport and sold lots based on those
3 And my major point is that they didn't do 3 improvements. And those,for initial site work,
4 what they promised and there are a lot of 4 paving, drainage,services,like professional
5 promises associated with this new PUD and while 5 engineer for construction supervision,and a
6 there is a different emphasis in management with 6 schedule was provided for those improvements.
7 Mark Holiday and Lori Quick as the principles 7 And based on when the lots are sold. Well our
8 who purchased the property,it's still the same 8 lot was sold six and a half years ago. And the
9 group who's looking at the benefits of 9 lot has no access,no paving to it,at all. We
10 developing Red Barron Estates and taking the ten 10 have a lot, the other lot we have had partial
11 thousand dollars per property owner. And I'm 11 paving, kind of a temporary nature,which as
12 not,I'll just say again,I'm not at all 12 part of a partner with Mr. Gardner, we had to
13 certain,I can't see any way,given their lack 13 pay to fix ourselves. So I think that it is
14 of ever sharing any information about the 14 relevant the viability of the airport is
15 limited partnership,I don't see how Marilyn can 15 relevant. This is a private airport. It's not
16 make a statement that that money will benefit 16 viable it can close. And this subdivision, a
17 the limited partners.I assume there's-- 17 critical part of this subdivision is the airport
18 MALE VOICE: [interposing] Mr.Chairman. 18 and the county has a PUD agreement with the
19 Mr.Chairman. You know,I think you might want 19 airport, that is in default because the lots
20 to question the relevance of all this. I'm also 20 have been sold,the utilities haven't been
21 aware there's litigation over these issues so I 21 built,certainly the [unintelligible] is not
22 don't think you can substitute for the courts at 22 debatable if the paving that's shown on the PUD
23 all in resolving the difference between the 23 is not there. The retention pond that's shown
24 parties. Urn,you know,I think he's made the 24 on the PUD is not there. And that's part of the
25 point that you should question the,you know, 25 airport. It affects the operation of the
42 44
1 carefully question assurances made on the 1 airport as far as providing taxiways and
2 development that is before you. But I don't 2 [unintelligible]and offsite and there have been
3 know trying to litigate all these issues that 3 problems. And if more paving gets put in,there
4 exist at the Airpark is appropriate. 4 will be more problems [unintelligible]
5 CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right. Okay. Any 5 facilities.
6 questions? Thank you very much. 6 With respect to the subdivision itself,I'm
7 FRED GARDNER: Thank you. 7 not really opposed to the subdivision itself.
8 CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else here who 8 It seems that if you're only going to irrigate a
9 would like to speak on this matter today? Come 9 small portion of your land that's dry land and
10 forward and give your name and address please. 10 you've got airplanes that fuel in oversized
11 GENE MCLAUGHLIN [PHONETIC]: Hello,I'm Gene 11 buildings. However,it's not that impractical
12 McLaughlin,11027 West 76th Place, 12 to put in a more sophisticated pressurized fire
13 [unintelligible],Colorado. I'm the limited 13 system because a wildfire there would have to
14 partner in the Airport. And a part property 14 have a very quick response and the system is not
15 owner of lot 6 and 7 of the Airpark. And I 15 going to be a whole lot of help.
16 think it's relevant,certainly the airport to 16 But regardless,my,my request,or my would
17 this,Red Barron Estates,as a utility. And to 17 be not so much opposed to the subdivision,but
18 the people that buy lots here,because the 18 to not approve the subdivision until the
19 airport is,may be the most important utility 19 airport,which is a critical part of the
20 that those people are considering 20 subdivision,the Red Barron subdivision,has
21 [unintelligible] the community. Therefore, 21 fulfilled it's obligations to complete the work
22 viability of the airport is relevant to the 22 that's in the PUD agreement with the county. Or
23 viability of the Red Barron Estates. In this 23 at least make the subdivision contingent on
24 case,the uh,in 1997 the County did enter an 24 completing those improvements that were promised
25 agreement for a PUD with the same,essentially 25 to the county in 1997. Thanks.
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1 CHAIRMAN: Any questions. All right. Thank 1 considerable interest in keeping Plat Valley
2 you. Is there anybody else here this morning, 2 alive. We started it;we're the ones that keep
3 this morning geez, this afternoon to speak on 3 it going. We have every [unintelligible] loves
4 this issue.Come forward and give your name and 4 the airport. It's [unintelligible] support
5 address please. 5 continual troublemakers and this is just a
6 MARGARET[UNINTELLIGIBLE]: I'm Margaret 6 continuation of the harassment and an attempt to
7 [unintelligible]. I live in Spartan,Colorado, 7 [unintelligible] the airport and take it over
8 4273 East 126th Avenue. My husband and I also 8 and it's not going to work. But aside from
9 have property at Plat Valley Airport. We have a 9 that,we have,in our covenants,
10 lot that we purchased there and we built a 10 [unintelligible] those covenants,that the
11 hangar. It's one of the thirty-nine lots that 11 airport will always remain an airport. If we
12 were sold. We have two of those lots. We have 12 fail to operate it as an airport,the HOA says
13 had no problems with drainage or access. The 13 they're going to take it over. So,that's a
14 utilities that we were[unintelligible] were 14 guarantee for the Red Barron to a degree because
15 going to be put at the airport,were put there. 15 there's nothing that is ever going to happen to
16 We're also potential buyers of a lot at Red 16 Plat Valley Airport.
17 Barron. And we understand that there is no 17 As far as the improvements though, um we
18 guarantee that the airport will be there. We 18 have escrow accounts ready to complete the
19 want to live there. We hope that it will stay 19 improvements when McLaughlin and Fred Gardner
20 there. But we know there is a risk. And we've 20 said that they haven't seen a financial report,
21 not been promised anything about the airport. 21 they did an audit of the books,couldn't find
22 As far as our hangar in Plat Valley, I don't 22 anything. We have not done any quarterly
23 know of anybody who's been deprived of access or 23 financial reports because when we did one, it
24 taxiway or utilities. Every [unintelligible] 24 got distributed to someone who was not in the
25 has an occupancy permit to that building,has 25 partnership. So,we don't give out financial
46 48
1 all those rights of[unintelligible]. 1 information. If they came to the office,they
2 CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. Any questions 2 could see it. But,you know,I think in all
3 [unintelligible]? Thank you. Is there anyone 3 honesty,it's,their comments don't have
4 else here this afternoon to speak on this mess? 4 anything to do with our development. It's just
5 Come to the lectern give your name and address 5 a matter of they lost the last court order and
6 please. 6 they're mad at us. So, if you want to make a
7 Seeing there is no one else to speak on this 7 comment on it. I don't think it has anything to
8 matter during the public input portion,we will 8 do with Red Barron.
9 close that public portion. And bring it back to 9 MALE VOICE: I don't have anything further
10 the applicants. Come to the- 10 to add unless you've got questions. I don't
11 MS.TAYLOR: You know it's late in the day 11 know the details of the litigation.
12 and you guys have been here all morning and all 12 MS.TAYLOR: The litigation is ongoing and--
13 day and I'm not going to air all this dirty 13 MALE VOICE: [Interposing] I guess I,I, Mr.
14 laundry about our litigation we're in on the 14 Chairman,
15 Plat Valley. Lee Marvin is familiar with it; 15 CHAIRMAN: Commissioner [Unintelligible].
16 Don is familiar with it,Peter's familiar with 16 MALE VOICE: If I may, I the litigation and
17 it. It all stems around a drainage issue that 17 all of that,I'm sorry that you're going through
18 the litigation is ongoing now and 18 that. But we have a certain case in front of us
19 [unintelligible] the airport says it was their 19 today.And I think you've made it very clear,
20 fault, their [unintelligible] engineers they 20 Council,that you know,home owners association,
21 created a drainage problem. They say it's our 21 hangar owners association,whatever it might be
22 fault and we could go on forever. It's been 22 in the past,you know that's,that's another
23 going on for five years. So I think what's 23 situation and another problem. What we're here
24 happening now is, I mean it's pretty obvious 24 to do is,and I think we've taken care of the
25 that all [unintelligible] this development has 25 home owners association, three copies will be
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1 filed and reviewed for it's completeness and its 1 there's nothing special or out of the ordinary
2 accuracy,but I think that's what were hearing. 2 for this development.
3 I guess I'd like to,unless I'm missing 3 MALE VOICE: Okay,fine.
4 something,or Council,I'd like to concentrate 4 CHAIRMAN: Further comments or? All right.
5 on the case at hand. 5 All right thank you. Any discussion?
6 MALE VOICE: Fine with me. 6 Okay,you've looked at and read all the
7 CHAIRMAN: Okay,any- 7 conditions of approval and site specific
8 MALE VOICE: I think we have to. 8 development plans. And uh,Sherry you do have
9 CHAIRMAN: Any further comments or questions 9 the changes here? Did you give me that you read
10 of the applicant? 10 into the record on changes?
11 [END TAPE 1 SIDE A] 11 SHERRY HALL: [Unintelligible]to read it
12 [START TAPE 1 SIDE B] 12 again.
13 MS.TAYLOR: I would like to say one more 13 CHAIRMAN: Okay,you have read into the
14 thing. All of the improvements are still 14 record all ready that uh,the applicant has
15 scheduled to be done at Plat Valley. The monies 15 agreed to?
16 are in an escrow account and I can provide 16 SHERRY HALL: Those were proposed by the
•
17 savings account information on that 17 applicant.
18 [unintelligible]. And it includes agreement for 18 CHAIRMAN: Oh,proposed by the applicant.
19 Red Barron,urn,the service improvement 19 But you're agreeable to them?
20 agreement,Peter and I changed it last week,the 20 SHERRY HALL: Yes,we are.
21 amount of monies needed to do the internal and 21 CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right. Thank you.
22 external improvement are approximately three 22 It's been a long day. Okay, thank you.Bring it
23 hundred thousand dollars. We have two signed 23 back to the board for discussion.
24 contracts ready to go when we close on the 24 MALE VOICE: Mr.Chairman, I just start the
25 properties to make sure that there is money for 25 discussion,we've had a case put before us,
50 52
1 every single improvement to be done at Red 1 conditions of approval and development
2 Barron,including paving of the taxiways at Plat 2 standards. I do concur with the Planning
3 Valley. For the benefit of the airport. That's 3 Division that it does,oh excuse me;did the
4 all I have to say. 4 Planning Commission hear this,Council? Did I?
5 MALE VOICE: Peter,working on a yeah,do 5 Okay they did because. The Planning Commission
6 you have comments on it? 6 did in fact hear it and did apply the County
7 PETER SHAY: I've worked with the applicant 7 zoning and subdivision regulations as it relates
8 on the onsite and the offsite improvements 8 to this. Found that it is compliant. Not only
9 agreement. And there is no concern from the 9 that but with our comprehensive plans. I don't,
10 Public Works perspective.In fact,the applicant 10 you know,I really empathize that there are
11 has proactively pursued the Public Works and I 11 issues with other instruments that have been in
12 believe maybe [unintelligible] something in the 12 place through the years with hangar associations
13 past that may or may not have worked out on 13 and things of that nature. But we really need
14 their other development but they've really 14 to concentrate on this case and hopefully those
15 stepped forward in my perspective as far as 15 will get resolved. But they'll have to be
16 looking at these improvements that are going to 16 resolved at another venue other than this. So
17 be required and uh,we'll submit those to Mr. 17 based upon those comments,Mr.Chairman,I'm
18 Morris,Attorney Morris for approval and review, 18 prepared to make a motion any time you're ready
19 etcetera. So,I don't have any other comments 19 to accept one.
20 or concerns regarding the homeowners themselves. 20 CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any further comments?
21 MALE VOICE Do we have any 21 MALE VOICE: Mr.Chairman,I make a motion
22 collateralization of that is being put together? 22 that docket number 2004-25 change of zone 1035
23 PETER SHAY: We will go through the process 23 from the agriculture zone to PUD planning use,
24 for collateral at escrow as any other 24 PUD zone district for eight residential lots
25 improvements agreements and urn, [unintelligible] 25 along with an eighty-one point nine three acre
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1 agriculture lot be approved with the conditions
2 approval of development standards and the two
3 additions as presented,to be included.
4 FEMALE VOICE: Could you also please include
5 that you want this to be [unintelligible] both
6 review and final?
1 7 MALE VOICE: [Unintelligible].
8 MALE VOICE: I would have no problem with an
9 administrative review from what I've seen so I
10 would approve that as part of the motion,Mr.
11 Chairman.
12 CHAIRMAN: Okay.
13 MALE VOICE: Excuse me but my batteries went
14 out so I'm [unintelligible].
15 [Laughter]
16 It's one of the problems.
17 CHAIRMAN: Do I have a second?
18 MALE VOICE: I'll second it.
19 CHAIRMAN: I have a motion by Commissioner
20 Guile [phonetic] seconded by Commissioner Rod
21 [phonetic] to approve docket number 2004-
22 25PL1706 change of zone number 1035 from an A
' 23 agricultural zone district to PUD development
24 zone district for eight residential lots along
25 with eighty-one point nine three agricultural,
54
1 along with an eighty-one point nine three
' 2 agricultural lots for Lori Quick and Mark
3 Holiday,in care of Marilyn Taylor, Red Barron
4 Development,along with conditions of approval
' 5 with amendments in the development plan. Any
6 further discussion or comments?
7 If not,all in favor say aye.
N 8 [Chorus of ayes].
9 Opposed nay. Carried. Thank you. Thank
10 you everybody for staying with us today. It's
11 been a long day for everybody.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
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A airpark 5:6 8:1 12:6,10 37:9 38:13 40:8 Belly 2:14
able 5:19 18:15 26:15 33:25 34:5,10,20,21 35:17 areas 28:3 38:3 beneficial 20:8
absolutely 28:18 37:19 38:17 39:19 42:4,15 arose 21:23 benefit 35:22,23 37:5 41:16
accept 52:19 airplane 7:10 40:21 articles 22:16 50:3
access 20:12 21:25 43:9 airplanes 2:12 16:13 21:12 aside 47:8 benefits 20:13,13,14 41:9
45:13,23 44:10 asked 7:12 9:5 10:20 13:12 beuase 25:20
accessory 7:2,5 airport 16:23 20:6,10,12 16:25 big 37:12
accommodate 15:2 21:5,10,13 30:11 34:9 35:6 asking 12:21 13:5 14:25 bigger 7:11
accommodation 15:6 35:9,11 36:5,9,20,23,25 asphalt 13:2,22,23 bit 24:15 34:23
accommodations 14:21 37:5,9,11 40:13 42:14,16 assessment 16:4 bite 26:17
account 49:16,17 42:19,22 43:2,14,15,17,19 associated 41:5 board 2:4 51:23
accounts 47:18 43:25 44:1,19 45:9,15,18 Associates 37:19 40:4 bold 34:9
accumulated 38:6 45:21 46:19 47:4,7,11,11 association 5:22 12:4 21:2,8 books 47:21
accuracy 49:2 47:12,16 50:3 21:11 22:10 23:9,15 27:3 borderline 32:10
acquainted 34:10 airports 20:18 27:12 34:4 36:8,19 48:20 born 29:13
acre 1:11 2:3 4:15 5:16 23:21 airport's 36:15 48:21,25 Bott 14:11,13 16:5,10
52:25 Alan 5:3 associations 52:12 bought 27:13
acreage 25:4 26:1 alive 47:2 association's 9:2 box 7:25 22:2
acres 7:24 8:2 10:18 allocated 2:18 assume 41:17 break 23:6 32:25
activity 23:11 allowed 7:16 assurances 42:1 brief 10:15
add 7:9 14:23 48:10 allows 25:18 attempt 26:12 47:6 bring 9:8,9 46:9 51:22
addition 25:10 alteration 4:5 attorney 17:3 50:18 build 12:22 14:25 31:8
additional 16:12 33:12 amendment 22:20 Attorney's 27:8 building 3:21,24 6:23 7:5,11
additions 53:3 amendments 54:5 attractive 41:1 10:20 11:2 19:16,23 38:4,7
— address 16:18 29:10 30:17 amenities 39:12,22 audio 23:6 38:7,8 40:6,10 45:25
33:22 42:10 45:5 46:5 amenity 35:6 audit 47:21 buildings 3:23 7:2,5 44:11
addressed 3:7 13:10 20:2 amount 5:19 11:19 49:21 authorized 16:21 built 43:21 45:10
_ 34:17 announcement 2:4 available 39:21 bus 14:4,6,12,16,17 15:3
addresses 22:12 answer 11:5 16:24 26:9 Avenue 45:8 21:18
adhere 17:23 23:25 anybody 29:7 45:2,23 Aviation 4:2 business 37:8 38:10 40:24
adjacent 2:8,913:7,14 34:12 anyway 17:20 aviator 23:7 buy 12:5 31:3 42:18
administered 4:21 apparently 40:6 aware 27:11 41:21 buyers 45:16
administrative 4:25 53:9 apple 26:18 aye 54:7 bylaws 22:15 27:1,2,13
affidavit 1:20 applicant 2:15 3:17 4:10 5:3 ayes 54:8
afternoon 1:22,23 12:15 12:22 13:5,12 14:25 16:17 C
45:3 46:4 28:3 29:5 49:10 50:7,10 B call 20:16
ag 2:23 3:1 51:14,17,18 B 49:12 called 17:13 30:19
agencies 3:5 applicants 4:6 14:13 46:10 back 21:23 30:23 37:15 calving 32:22
agent 16:21 applicant's 8:16 28:12 33:9 38:24 46:9 51:23 Canon 7:21
ago 17:2 43:8 application 1:6 8:25 23:20 Baptist 18:19 19:1,5 care 1:718:8 48:24 54:3
agree 14:16 31:11 25:12 29:8 33:21 Barnes 17:2 carefully 42:1
agreeable 22:1 51:19 applied 1:25 Barron 1:7 2:7,11 5:2 16:21 carried 37:3 54:9
agreed 13:18 51:15 apply 52:6 20:24 21:3,16 23:7,16,22 case 1:2 3:6 4:16,21 25:24
agreement 4:23 13:6 36:7 approaches 4:4 31:6,9 32:14 35:7 41:10 42:24 48:18 49:5 51:25
42:25 43:18 44:22 49:18,20 appropriate 26:21 42:4 42:17,23 44:20 45:17 47:14 52:14
50:9 approval 3:9 5:2 26:22 35:5 48:8 49:19 50:2 54:3 cash 37:1
agreements 50:25 38:22 50:18 51:7 52:1 53:2 based 19:25 21:12 43:2,7 cattle 9:8,11
agricultural 1:8,11 2:1,3,19 54:4 52:17 Cause 32:18
2:22 8:13 18:12 53:23,25 approve 44:18 53:10,21 basic 34:18,18 causes 3:11
54:2 approved 2:17 4:8 27:1,7 basically 12:23 13:6,22 15:8 caution 38:20
agriculture 7:19 52:23 53:1 34:14 53:1 18:13 20:15,25 28:7,14 certain 35:8 41:13 48:18
ahead 31:8 approximately 49:22 basin 18:4 certainly 42:16 43:21
air 2:14 46:13 aquifer 4:16 24:17 batteries 53:13 Chair 3:20
aircraft 2:13 area 3:10 5:5 6:3,8,21,23 beginning 25:20 37:17 Chairman 1:5 5:13 6:17
12:2518:22 22:2 34:11 believe 12:7 15:5 50:12 9:22 10:10 11:6,7 12:2,9,12
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15:15,18,20,24 16:15 22:8 community 2:12 35:11,18 44:22,25 52:6 detention 40:2,3,7
22:9 24:5 26:19 27:20 29:4 42:21 couple 10:15 12:18 determined 4:1
32:24 33:5,19 38:23 39:16 company 18:25 course 40:9 determining 8:25
41:18,19 42:5,8 45:146:2 compared 20:17 court 48:5 developed 5:15
48:14,15 49:7,9 51:4,13,18 complete 44:2147:18 courts 41:22 developers 37:18
51:21,24 52:17,20,21 53:11 completed 19:17 38:2 39:23 covenant 23:25 developing 41:10
53:12,17,19 40:16 covenants 18:9 21:1 27:1 development 1:7,9 3:8
change 2:1 3:18,21 4:6,11 completeness 49:1 47:9,10 12:19,20,25 13:11 14:7
19:17 26:3,14 30:13 52:22 completing 35:17 37:16 crack 36:5 15:17 16:22 23:4,8,16,23
53:22 40:25 44:24 cracked 21:15 26:23 34:13 36:21 37:2
changed 49:20 compliance 3:16 created 46:21 42:2 46:25 48:4 50:14 51:2
changes 1:8 3:19 4:24 27:6 compliant 52:8 critical 43:17 44:19 51:8 52:1 53:2,23 54:4,5
27:10 51:9,10 comprehensive 52:9 CR16 29:15 de-sac 15:1
Chapter 4:1 concentrate 49:4 52:14 cul 15:1 diagram 34:12
charged 36:4 concern 35:20 40:23 50:9 current 24:15 difference 41:23
check 5:25 19:8 concerned 36:22 37:8 cut 31:25 different 6:7 41:6
checkerboard 28:2 concerns 34:16 50:20 CW061 4:17 dirty 46:13
children 14:15 concur 52:2 disadvantageous 40:21
choices 31:3 condemn 31:4,24 D discussed 5:23
Chorus 54:8 condition 3:18 4:7 27:15 dad 29:14 discussion 36:2 51:5,23,25
chose 17:22 conditional 10:17 damage 38:10,15 40:11,24 54:6
Church 18:19 19:1,5 conditions 3:7,8 9:15 26:22 damages 38:10 distances 3:25
cistern 2:20 9:25 10:2,7 51:7 52:1 53:1 54:4 date 17:18 22:11,12 23:1 distributed 47:24
18:17,21 19:1,11 configuration 2:23,25 3:2 dated 4:17 24:14 district 1:9,9 52:24 53:23,24
cisterns 22:22 confuses 24:14 day 29:17 46:11,13 51:22 disturbing 40:10
clarification 34:8 considerable 35:19 38:20 54:11 division 2:16 5:13,23,25
clear 8:9 36:11 48:19 47:1 deadline 39:11 6:13 17:16 25:7 52:3
close 13:1 20:21 30:9,10 consideration 34:8 35:3,5 dealing 5:14 docket 1:4 52:22 53:21
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AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO
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AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO
DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306
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AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO
DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356.3306
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AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO
DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306
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6
AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO
DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433-COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306
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AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO
DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306
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AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO
DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328-GREELEY(970)356-3306
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DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306
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