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- MEETING BEFORE THE:
BOARD OF WELD COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
DOCKET NO. 2003-29
AUGUST 6, 2003
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2004-0726
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pL0003
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1 IHDEX
2 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
n 3 David E. Long, Chairman
11 4 Robert D. Masden, Pro-Tem
5 M.J. Geile
6 William H. Jerke
Q7 Glenn Vaad
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9 ALSO PRESENT:
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10 Carol Harding, Acting Clerk to the Board
11 Lee Morrison, Assistant County Attorney
12 Monica Mika, Planning Department Representative
13 Pam Smith, Health Department Representative
14 Don Carroll, Public Works Representative
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Ii 1 EEQCW, Ej2ING S
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Next we will hear Case PL-0003 ,
3 Docket 2003-29.
4 Counsel, if you could read that into the record,
5 please.
6 MR. MORRISON: Mr. Chairman, this hearing was
7 originally continued from May 28, 2003 . Publication was made
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8 for that date, but in addition, the staff was directed to do
9 a mailing prior to this hearing. And in the record there is
10 certificate of mailing for those within 500 feet and for
11 those who had requested that they be given notice.
12 The request is for a site specific development plan
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13 and planned unit development final plan, PF 1021, for the
14 second filing of Beebe Draw Farms for 406 lots. The
15 applicant is REI, LLC. The legal decription is Sections 4,
16 5, 8, 9, 10 and 17 in Township 3 North, Range 65 West, of the
/^ 17 6PM, Weld County, Colorado.
18 And as I noted, notice has been given in particular
19 for this hearing by mailing and previously by posting and
,off 20 publication.
LJ 21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Counsel.
22 Planning? Monica?
23 MS. MIKA: Good morning. Monica Mike, at
11 24 Department of Planning Services.
1 25 I distributed several different handouts to the
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1 Board, and before I get started with the formal presentation,
r2 I just wanted to go over what those were.
3 You did get a hard copy of two of the plats
t ! 4 referenced, the landmark plats and also the J.L. Walter plat.
r 5 You received a copy of rules and regulations under which this
LnJ 6 case will be reviewed. You also received several handouts
7 for additional staff comments and a handout describing the
C 8 proposed concept for the subdivision. And I can go through
9 those as we go through the subdivision hearing today.
10 The first filing is comprised of 1, 163 acres, and
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11 it was proposed with 188 residential lots. And this is the
12 original graphic that was submitted to the Planning
13 Commission in November of last year, and it does show the
14 subdivision prior to a modification. The area in white
15 that's most easily identified as Phase 4 on there is actually
C 16 the first filing comprised of 188 lots.
17 After Planning Commission heard this case, one of
18 their criteria was a further discussion and negotiations with
19 the oil and gas company to address oil and gas concerns. So
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20 last week we received this modified plat, and it's difficult
t.: 21 to see, but what the applicant did is they relocated and
22 moved lots that were previously located throughout the
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23 subdivision, they did locate the majority of those lots to
24 the top of the Section 4, which is adjoining Weld County
25 Road. We have a visual that's a little bit better, and we
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1 can describe that as we go through it. This is an area that
11 2 just basically shows the subdivision.
3 One of the questions that came up at the time of
fl 4 Planning Commission was what's happened on the present
5 subdivision. And what I 'd like to do is just briefly enter
`i 6 into the record the case and how we got to this point because
7 a lot of activity has happened.
its 8 December 21, 1983 , the applicants received a change
� l 9 of zone. It was Change of Zone 412 . At that time they
^ 10 received permission for 600 residential units, single-family,
l{ 1 11 100 multi-family residential units, recreational component
(7 12 and oil and gas activities.
LL11 13 Then on December 22, 1985, the applicant platted
14 188 lots known as Case S-247, which was a first phase of a
15 final plat.
Ii16 August 20, 1986, the Metropolitan District was
�1 17 formed to carry out the amenities associated with the
� ) 18 subdivision.
19 Then on February 27th of 1989, the applicants came
20 back and did an amendment to the original change of zone. As
ti 21 part of that amendment, the applicant changed their overall
gfg1 22 densities. They modified it to 700 residential units and got
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23 rid of the multi-family R-3 component, still retained the
11 24 recreational and oil and gas components.
25 Then in May -- then on March 22, 1989, the
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11 1 applicant came back in and did a second amended replat of the
2 first filing. At that point in time, that's the first time
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3 we see an actual negotiations are on the plat. We see 300-
4 foot circles for oil and gas production in the subdivision.
Er 5 So that came through the process of a platting.
�j 6 But in May of 1999 the Metropolitan District was
fl 7 consolidated.
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8 Then on September 13, 2000, the applicant
9 petitioned the Board of County Commissioners for an
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!{^ 10 additional 536 lots to be located in the balance of the
E 11 subdivision. That case was denied by the Board. The case is
12 referenced as S-525.
13 Then on December 18, 2001, the applicant came back
14 in front of the Board of County Commissioners with a
15 substantial change to reduce the overall densities to
tl 16 approximately what we're seeing today.
17 And the case that you have in front of you today is
18 PF-1021, a PUD final plat for second filing for 406
19 residential lots, retaining the recreational and oil and gas
20 activities associated with this. Is everybody clear on that?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Jerke?
22 COMMISSIONER JERKE: I have a question. This was
23 turned down in the year 2000 for additional lots?
24 MS. MIKA: That's correct.
25 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Then when is it appropriate to
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1 do a substantial change hearing?
2 MS. MIKA: Actually --
3 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Was that appropriate in this
4 case, or what?
5 MS. MIKA: -- they did a substantial change
6 hearing, and that was December 18, 2001.
7 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay.
8 MS. MIKA: So a year later they came back and did a
[1 9 substantial change.
((^, 10 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And that was approved then at
11 that point?
12 MS. MIKA: That's correct.
13 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Geile?
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, Monica, when we had
1 16 originally heard the case three or four years ago, there were
r 17 724 lots, and then we went through the substantial change,
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18 and they came back with 460 residential lots -- or 406
L + 19 residential lots. Can you go to the -- let me kind of go
20 through a couple of other questions that I had.
21 Back then there was an Equestrian Center, there was
r 22 RV parking for 140 units, there was a swimming pool, a great
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23 room -- a swimming pool, a great room evidently in the club
24 house. Excuse me, there was a club house with a swimming
25 pool, a great room, parking like I say for 110 -- well, for
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lJ 1 110 vehicles, tennis courts. And also at that time, they
p2 were going to donate some acreage, and I can't remember the
[� 3 number because I didn't write -- 23 acres, excuse me, to the
t1 4 School District. There was also some land that was going to
E5 be dedicated for a fire station.
6 And as far as the public facilities that were being
fl7 presented, can you in this somewhere -- what I 'd like to hear
8 somewhere is what is the difference of the public facilities
11 9 that we heard back then that were being -- that was being
C10 proposed in this phase that we're hearing today, but also
U 11 what was committed to the first phase to be constructed and
11 t ' 12 built and how the two tie together, what has been done, what
13 has been completed, what hasn't been done, what hasn't been
t 14 completed in the original filing, as well as the one we're
(((^^?' 15 hearing today.
ii 16 I would also like to know -- I would also like to
17 have some description because I think it's extremely
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18 important to this case around the Metropolitan District.
ill 19 Originally, the intent of that was for seven districts; at
20 least this is what my notes are, and it was to include water,11 21 even though the public water system would be Central Weld at
E22 that time, streets -- and I 'm talking about the Metropolitan
23 District and what it was designed to do -- storm water, and
ri24 miscellaneous such as gas and electric, telephone, utility
25 easements and so forth.
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1 And then I 'd also like some description as to
2 another statement that was made that had to do with an
3 improvement agreement, and this was in essence phase by phase
1 4 where the collateral would be 100 percent of value. And
�r 5 there was some confusion at that time, at least in my mind,
6 as to what fell into the improvement agreement and what of
7 that rolled over into the Metropolitan District.
EJ 8 And there were also some concerns back at that time
9 expressed by Fryco, who's the owner of Milton Reservoir, and
10 then also the ability -- and I know that this -- there was a
11 question if we could consider it in the hearing, but if
12 people were going to be using Milton Reservoir as a
13 recreation lake, number one, were their health safety issues
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14 associated with people using that facility? And number two,
15 would Fryco really ever agree to that kind? In other words,1 16 this project was being represented in such a way, and there
17 was -- there were certain things of this project that were
18 being represented that might not have been possible or
19 feasible, such as the use of the lake.
20 I 've kind of gone through several things, but also
t,! 21 the other thing was the open space for the Equestrian Center;
22 how would that be used for the next filing, and how would
23 that tie into the current filing and those people who are
24 building homes?
j 25 And I just wanted to -- if it's all right, Mr.
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1 Chairman, these were the issues that when I was -- and
2 Commissioner Vaad and I were on the Commission at the time
3 when we heard this. But those were the things, that there
4 was an awful lot of testimony presented, and I would like to
5 make sure we focus on those and make sure -- or not in its
6 entirety, but we certainly have questions to those rather
7 than have to go back and re-hammer them or research them or
8 all those other things to get the resolutions out on the
9 table.
1710 So did I give you a complete list, of at least my
11 concerns? And I don't know, Commissioner Vaad might have --
17El 12 MS. MIKA: Okay. I can start at the top, and we
13 can work our way down and defer some of these to the
14 applicant, too. If it please the Board, I 'd like to continue
15 going through my staff comments before we answer those
16 questions just so everybody understands where we are because
17 there are some differences.
18 I do want to bring to the Board's attention that
�j 19 those amenities as discussed by Commissioner Geile, the
20 majority of those amenities are located in an area called
C; 21 Outlot A. And Outlot A on this map is located on the right-
22 hand side -- Outlot A is right there (indicating) . That's
23 the original area where the majority of the amenities were
24 proposed to be located, and that continues to be true to this
25 day, with the exception of their existing gatehouse facility
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1 and community building and the trails and so forth, that type
2 of development.
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3 But the important thing to understand is that prior
! ! 4 to issuing any building permits or further having any
5 activities, the site plan review will be required because we
6 have not reviewed the amenities, the parking, lighting
7 associated with those individual uses.
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8 The proposed development, when the application
9 originally came in and was looked at by the Planning
10 Commission, the applicant at that time proposed eight
11 different phases. And so if you go back and look at the
12 application that you have in front of you, it shows eight
13 different phases. The last couple weeks the applicant has
14 modified that, and now they're proposing 14 different phases.
r15 What we're not exactly sure of is what amenities will be
�1 16 associated with those individual phases.
17 The applicant is limited to 100 residential water
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18 taps per year from Central Weld, but as the information that
19 we currently have shows that the proposed phases will occur
20 over an eight-year period, ranging from 17 to 34 residential
21 lots. There is a list of amenities that the applicant has
22 proposed to Weld County to delineate what they believe will
23 satisfy the intent of the overall amenities. There's not a
fl24 scheduling at this time, and that is a concern of the
25 planning staff.
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11 1 Referral comments were sent to eight referral
2 agencies. Two referral agencies did not comment. That was
3 the Platte Valley Soils and the Oil & Gas Conservation
4 Commission.
5 As I go through the hearing today, I will be
f-� 6 referencing four different types of plats, so I want to make
7 sure that everybody is on the same page. The first plat that
^, 8 will be referenced by staff will be the J.L. Walter Oil and
! y 9 Gas Plat, and it's dated July 10th. The second engineering
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10 construction drawing plats that were received are dated June
t.! 11 3rd. Dave Clinger has submitted the master plan that was
12 dated July 2nd, and the landmark engineering plats are dated
13 June 3rd. So you have two of those four plats.
El14 There was a sign posting for today's hearing, which
(� 15 occurred on July 25th. The Planning Commission did look at
[ i 16 this case on November 17th and did make a recommendation of
17 approval. Their approval was contingent upon establishing an
18 agreement with the Oil & Gas Commission -- I mean, oil and
19 gas operators on the site.
t� 20 I will briefly go through the resolution that you
21 have in front of you to substantiate that Sections 28. 14 have
i.. 22 been met. And if you'd look -- I 'm looking at the resolution
23 in front of you, and it's on the second page, and that
24 addresses the first of your questions that you asked,
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25 Commissioner Geile; what were those uses originally approved?
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1 And keep in mind that the uses that were approved on this
�1 2 subdivision happened with the very first case that came to
3 the County in 1883, and you will see on here a Subsection I
Fl 4 and Subsection II. And that came directly from Resolution
5 412. And those are the uses that were agreed to be included.
6 'Now, it doesn't specifically call out in 1 and 2 of
7 your resolution; it also included 40 miles of pedestrian
8 trails and 19 miles of equestrian trail. The trail actual
9 numbers are excluded from there.
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10 Section 28-14-1.6. 2, this PUD does conform to be
11 approved PUD zone district at the time, as it does address
�? 12 those uses called out. Section 28-14-1. 6. 3, "The uses,
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13 building and structures will be compatible with the existing
14 and future land development of the area. " And we do have
15 some pictures of what type of activities and houses are being
16 developed in this area.
17 This is the gateway to the -- the entrance way to
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18 the subdivision, their sign (indicating) . I included this
19 picture to remind the Commissioners that there is an area
20 identified as an environmental assessment sensitive area, and
(] 21 this is a picture of that area that's along Milton Reservoir,
22 and it's roughly between 150-foot area up to 300 feet along
23 the whole perimeter of the lake.
24 This does show that the applicant is addressing the
25 RV storage issues. I believe the original application called
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1 out that there would be eight acres dedicated to RV storage
2 and facilities. We don't have any information at this time
3 specifically saying where that's going to be, other than
4 schematically knowing that it will be in Lot A, nor do we
5 have a scheduling of the RV storage facility. But this is --
6 they are addressing that use.
7 These pictures were taken quite awhile ago. These
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8 are the same pictures that were presented to Planning
9 Commission, and this does show Milton Lake in the back and
10 the inlet. And if you look in the back, that also shows the
11 lake at that time.
12 There are oil and gas activities on the site.
13 There are production facilities in and around the
14 subdivision. This is just an example of one that is located
�y 15 not too far from the entrance to the lake area. And this
l� 16 picture represents there are numerous access oil and gas
17 roads throughout the subdivision.
�n1 18 And this is a picture on the site. You can see
► . 19 those little black dots are actually cows and oil and gas
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20 facilities, and that's it.
3 21 Section 28-14-1.6. 2, the proposed PUD plan conforms
�+ 22 with the performance standards as established. And the
23 Planning Commission did review this, and their comment is, "A
24 timing of an amenity plan shall be included as a final note
25 on the plat, " and it does make reference that the Board of
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� i 1 County Commissioners, or previous Board of County
2 Commissioners, has already approved both Metropolitan
3 Districts.
4 In Section 28-14-1.6. 5, the proposed PUD final plan
5 is in compliance with Section 50 of the overlay zone
I 6 district. There are no overlay zone districts or urban
7 (inaudible) boundaries that affect this subdivision at this
8 time.
fl9 It would be generally at this time that I would
10 hand over the market phone for other County staff, but I
11 would like to answer some of Commissioner Geile's questions.
12 I did give you a handout. The handout has been
13 given to the applicant. In the middle of it, it says
14 "Proposed Concept. "
FFF))) 15 In anticipation of questions from the Board, I
k ! 16 wanted to know what was originally said in relationship to a
17 timing and phasing plan, and if you read through this
18 paragraph, that will address your questions. And for the
19 record, it talks about amenities being associated with the
f 20 first filing of the subdivision.
(„1 21 One of the other questions that came up at the time
p-, 22 of Planning Commission is how many lots have been sold in
23 this subdivision and where are they. And this graphic
24 overhead will show you the various lots in the subdivision.
�j 25 To date 48 lots have been sold. The difference for the
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� ] 1 coloring on this chart represents that some of the lots are
2 owned by individual homeowners and some of them continue to
3 be owned -- the one in the hatch lines are continued to be
4 owned by the developer. And the ones in red identify lots
5 that we've had setback variances on or that needs to have a
6 septic variance. So of the 48, we've had violations on those
7 four lots to date. And building activities began on those
8 lots in 1999.
9 Okay. Now, if it pleases the Board, what I 'd like
10 to do is, staff has approximately five pages of additions and
11 change to the resolution that I would like to go through at
12 some point in time. We certainly can do that now or defer
13 that to a later date, and then Pam also added one additional
14 change.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I think it would be best to defer
16 that, when we get some more information regarding the
L 17 different parameters of that.
18 MS. MIKA: Okay.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: If that's okay with the Board.
20 MS. MIKA: One of the other questions, going down 1 21 Commissioner Geile's list, the question of what was the
22 Metropolitan District asked to do. I do have a copy of the
J 23 Metropolitan District. We can let the Board look at that.
24 But the Metropolitan District was intended to serve a great
ll 25 many purposes in this subdivision, including, for example,
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1 placement of street signs. So they had a lot of
2 responsibility, or they have a lot of responsibility to carry
n 3 out issues.
11 4 The other question you asked about was, is there an
5 agreement for the Milton Reservoir. There is an agreement.
6 It's attached in your filing. I believe it was part of the
7 original application. That agreement does have a date; I
8 believe it's 20-year date that was -- and that's the only
9 agreement that we have at this point in time. I haven't seen
a10 a revised copy of that.
11 And you had other questions in relationship to the
12 open space on the Equestrian Center, and while open space is
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13 identified, there is a high percentage of open space located
14 in the subdivision. When this case was originally proposed
15 to the Board of County Commissioners at the change of zone,
16 it did call out for a 70 percent allocation of open space,
17 and that number throughout time has been modified. I believe
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18 we're at 46 percent today, and the applicant can address that
19 issue. And the Equestrian Center is not yet established.
20 I'd be happy to answer any other questions the
21 Board may have at this time. I want to also thank Pam, Don
22 and Wendy Enlos (phonetic) for their help on this case as
23 well.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Monica.
25 Any questions for Monica at this time?
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1 (No response. )
2 THE CHAIRMAN: None at this time. Thank you.
3 I'll ask for Environmental Health. Pam, any
Cj 4 comments?
5 MS. SMITH: Pam Smith, Weld County Health
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6 Department.
7 I really don't have any comments at this time, but
8 I 'd be happy to answer questions.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any questions for Pam?
n 10 Commissioner Vaad?
ILn�' 11 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Pam, in an earlier hearing on
12 this, and that may have been 2001, there was a statement made
[ 13 by someone from the applicant's side to the effect -- and I
El14 don't recall exactly what it was -- but that possibly a
15 smaller combined sewage treatment plant could create more
16 environmental damage than multiple septic systems. I don't
17 know if Commissioner Geile remembers that or if you remember
18 that. But has there been any further substantiation or any
11 19 weight addressing that?
20 MS. SMITH: I think what you're referring to is
21 somewhere back in the history there was a comment or a
22 suggestion that had been brought up about the large number of
23 septic systems on this subdivision, and instead of having
24 individual septic systems on each lot that had to be
25 maintained by each property owner, if they were to combine
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1 and have it decentralized -- what the EPA calls a
2 decentralized waste water treatment system that would be
3 under the ownership of a utility, and it could be a private
4 utility or a public utility. And the information that I
.. 5 have, and what I have learned over time is that those
6 systems, at least from the State Health Department point of
Q7 view, are not very -- aren't very highly regarded because
8 there's a very large concentration of effluent that goes into
9 a septic system in that particular area. There's a lot of
10 maintenance that needs to be done. When you combine those
11 systems, then you -- then the State process kicks in where
12 you have to have a -- it has to go through the site
13 application process, and they have to have a discharge
14 permit, and they have to have monitoring wells, and it has to
15 be tested to make sure that they're meeting their discharge
16 limits.
Q17 And the maintenance issue becomes a problem there,
18 and that's what the State has experienced historically with
19 the management of those decentralized systems.
20 How these septic systems are being proposed is
21 there will be individual septic systems on each lot. There
22 will be a primary and secondary envelope on each lot that are
23 dedicated for use. The management of the septic systems will
24 be under the Beebe Draw Metro District for maintenance and
�j 25 for pumping and inspections. And so hopefully the intent is,
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1 and we've seen that on some other subdivisions that have come
2 before you, that that is -- with the large number of septic
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3 systems that we have out here and limited staff capability,
E' 4 that having an oversight entity directly associated with the
5 subdivision to maintain those and monitor those, they can
6 give a report, and the report would be available to the
7 County, that those septic systems will be more maintained
8 than an individual system somewhere in the county that isn't
9 required to go through this intense monitoring and
10 maintenance.
{11 11 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you.
r12 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions for Pam?
n 13 Commissioner Masden?
14 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
(� 15 Yeah, Pam, on some of these lots, they look kind of
t.v 16 small, and with the septic systems on them, are there enough
17 room on all of them for a replacement system?
�1 18 MS. SMITH: That is one of the questions that we
E1 19 are asking the applicant to show us, and I had sent comments
20 dated July 31st of this year. We have a list of 51 lots that
21 came from David Klinger that showed septic -- lots that were
22 going to have an impact from oil and gas influences based on
23 the agreements that were in the works and that are now
0 24 finalized.
25 There are -- those are probably the most severely
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1 restricted lots in the subdivision. The list that Monica is
11 2 going to read to you later on in the presentation where
3 there's a list of four or five pages of additions and
4 deletions, we have listed numerous lots that are going to be
5 impacted in some way by the oil and gas agreements that we
6 have in place right now. Some are very minor. Some are
El7 significant.
8 The smallest of those 51 lots that I wrote my
9 comments on July 31st, the smallest of those lots is three-
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10 tenths of an acre building envelope area. That area, that
11 building envelope area is for the building footprints,
12 primary and secondary septic envelopes and any outbuildings
13 that they would want to have out there.
fl14 And I 've asked the applicant to show -- I had
�j 15 originally asked in my comments that they show me for all
i.7 16 lots. There are 31 of those that are actually less than an
17 acre. I don't know how many are half an acre or less. I
18 didn't break it down that far. They had given me a schematic
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19 on several lots that they felt were the most restrictive
20 based on the shape of those. So that lot may actually be
G. 21 three acres, but they may have four-tenths of an acre that's
22 the building envelope that will be for all the structures.
23 Any permanent improvement on that lot is how the oil and gas
24 lease -- the agreement has been worded, the way I understand
25 it, and the septic system is included in that. They have
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l ' 1 included septic systems in that.
2 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: So they will be impacted,
3 yes.
4 MS. SMITH: They will be impacted, and we're asking
5 that that be put on the resolution, that all of these lots
6 have been identified as having some sort of impact based on
7 oil and gas setbacks, and that they need to be aware of what
8 those are as a part of that development. It looks like right
9 now, because of the septic systems, the kind of septic
^ 10 system, and I had the applicant's engineer, Dave Shupe, who
IU 11 is looking at the septic system portion of this development,
12 and I had him take some of the most restrictive lots, based
13 on either building footprint envelope or the shape of that
El14 envelope, and show me on there that you can have a building
�r 15 footprint and you can have septic envelopes, and I told him
16 to size for five bedrooms because that's probably the most
17 that we would see. So that would be the most restrictive.
18 He handed me that this morning before the hearing.
19 From what I 've seen, it looks like it will probably
20 work, but there may be restrictions on each lot owner. If El 21 they were to purchase that, if these lots were included and
22 approved as part of the development, those lot owners need to
23 know that there are some restrictions on there, and some are
24 pretty severe.
25 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. Thanks, Pam.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Geile?
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, Pam, going back when we
3 heard this case, the condition -- the soil condition is an
4 extremely sandy condition, as I recall. And the fact that
C5 there's already a high nitrate level in the area brought
6 forth the concerns that a septic system would have very
7 definite problems. Septic systems would have very definite
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8 problems, and that was the reason why there was a lot of
9 discussion at that time to either go to some kind of a public
10 sewage system, and I know specifically it was mentioned a
11 central system.
12 MS. SMITH: Um-hum.
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But I think package system was
14 even thrown out. There were all kinds of things. The real
15 problem was, is how would it be structured, because I don't
t! 16 think that the way the Metropolitan District was structured,
17 that it would allow for -- it did -- let me restate that.
18 The way the Metropolitan District was structured, it really
19 didn't have an inclusion of some kind of a sewage system
20 within it, not to say that they couldn't go in and amend the
21 Metropolitan District, but at least the way it was
(r 22 structured. But that was a major issue, and it tied into
23 some of the environmentally sensitive area that Monica
[� 24 mentioned. It also talked about Fryco or the Milton
En 25 Reservoir and their concerns that they had at the time. And
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1 then there were adjacent landowners who also had concerns
2 about the high nitrate level and what this would do to
3 further compound it simply because of the soil conditions.
E . 4 And I just want to go back. I 'm trying to refresh
(r 5 my memory on some of these, but that was a concern then, and
6 I assume it's still a concern.
7 MS. SMITH: I would assume that also, yes.
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8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions for
EJ 9 Pam at this time?
10 (No response. )II 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, I ' ll move on to Public
fl 12 Works. Don?
13 MR. CARROLL: Good morning. Don Carroll, County
r14 Public works.
fin, 15 Our main concern, and we've met with the applicant
1] 16 and went through the items that we're requiring, are the
17 on-site improvements agreement and the off-site, which is in
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18 lx.
19 If you refer to the map, we've got three areas that
3
20 we're dealing with. There's the main entrance to the Beebe
1 21 Draw Farms. The applicant has gone ahead and done the
22 improvements at the main entrance there, so you won't be
23 dealing with that item.
p 24 The first item that I'm listing is improvements to
tt 25 Weld County Road 39 and 32, which would be at the very bottom
1
11
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1 end of the development there, for (inaudible) for a right-
p2 turn lane on 39, turning and going west on 32. We have this
3 improvement basically tied -- well, all these improvements
[ ! 4 are tied to building permits. As we get to a number in the
11 5 building permit where it generates enough traffic to trigger
6 the improvement, that's how we've got it all tied.
f1 7 The next area would be the upgrade in paving of
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8 Weld County Road 38, which would be at the very top of the
El9 development, asking the applicant to pave from the entrance
iJ 10 west to Weld County Road 39, which would accommodate the lots
11 to the very , top of the development.
fl12 And the very last item would be down Road 32 where
13 the development would tie into Road 32 . We're asking for
El14 improvements where traffic would come out of the subdivision
15 at the very bottom, doing improvements to that location to
16 tie into the County system.
p17 Those are the off-site improvements and locations.
18 The on-site improvements are typical on-site
19 improvements where we work with the applicant. In this
20 particular case, we were working with him on eight phases,
21 now they're going to 14 phases. We want to make sure that we
1 22 have paving between each phase, so we have a continuous
j 23 paving pattern out there so there's no gravel between paving
fl24 sections or development phases. We can certainly work with
25 the applicant on each individual phase on making that happen.
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1 So in summary, we have an on-site agreement and an
2 off-site agreement.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Don.
4 Any questions? Commissioner Jerke?
5 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[' 6 Don, I 'm wondering, has there ever been any
7 consideration given to another off-site location, and that
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8 would be 39 and 42 and then 42 westbound? And the reason I
9 ask that question is that if we wind up eventually having
10 potentially hundreds of families living out there, the high
11 school of choice within district would be located at
r12 Gilcrest, west on 42. Everything is designed to go south and
13 west on 42, but 42 takes you directly to the high school, in
14 which clearly at a certain point with enough homes in there,
15 the County would be faced with the obligation of paving
11 16 County Road 42 all the way from 39 to Highway 85. That would
17 be a significant expense. Has there been discussions in that
18 arena?
11 19 MR. CARROLL: Not to my knowledge, no. I think
20 everything was based on going south to 32 and then to
11 21 Platteville.
22 COMMISSIONER JERKE: I don't know how to grab that
11
e� 23 back as an issue at this point either because it's one that
24 occurs to me as someone that lives in the area, but I know
25 the trips to the high school are significant for families
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1 that would wind up living out there, and it would be
2 significant bus traffic and such as well, I would imagine.
3 Thank you.
11 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Vaad?
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yeah, if I can go back to Pam.
6 In the, I guess it's Phase 1, the houses that are already
D7 there, what kind of septic systems do they have? And are
8 they subject to this inspection via the Metropolitan
9 District?
10 MS. SMITH: I think the applicant could probably
11 answer that better. How it is proposed is that the existing
12 septic systems in Phase 1 would not be subject to this, but
13 could voluntarily participate. Any lot that is not developed
� g 14 in Phase 1 I believe would be subject to this inspection
t 15 arrangement.
ri16 COMMISSIONER VAAD: So you don't have knowledge of
17 what the record is as to what kind of septic systems are in?
18 MS. SMITH: Most of the septic systems, very few of
19 them passed. Very few of them had suitable soil that met the
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20 criteria without having to be an engineered septic system.
21 Most of them are engineered septic systems because it's too
22 sandy. The sand perks too fast.
23 What they had to do was they went in and initially
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24 be consistent for all the ones that didn't pass because the
n 25 soil is relatively the same, that they would over-excavate,
11
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1 bring in soil, which they were still using a sandy texture
2 soil, but it had more silt in it, had more dirt in it, so it
3 slowed down the perk rate. It's more or less what would be
f4 proposed under the Metro District Management Plan for
0 5 designing all the septic systems.
6 So if a septic system didn't pass on its own, and
7 probably of 40-something, I would -- I don't do all the
8 inspections in the office, but I would venture to say that
9 there's probably four or five that passed in our engineered
10 systems. All the rest already are the kind of system that we
11 would be looking at with the Metro District Management Plan.
12 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any further questions
14 for staff at this time?
15 (No response. )
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, I will ask the
17 applicant or representative of the applicant to please come
[J 18 forward. If you could please begin your presentation? And
19 if you could for the record, for each person that might come
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20 up at a different portion of it, please state their name and
21 address prior to their beginning to speak. And welcome.
22 Thank you.
23 MR. SHELDON: Daniel R. Sheldon, REI, LLC, 3600
24 South Logan Street, Suite 200, Englewood 80113 .
25 Good morning, Mr. Chairman, County Commissioners.
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' 1 I'd like to start by thanking you for the time today for
2 purposes of approving Filing 2 at Pelican Lake Ranch.
3 My name is Dan Sheldon. I 'm a member of the
4 development company, REI, LLC.
5 I will now introduce to you our team of
6 professionals who are prepared to testify and answer any
11 7 questions the Commissioners may have on behalf of Pelican
8 Lake Ranch.
9 First is my partner, manager of the development
in 10 company and chairwoman of the Beebe Draw Farms, Metropolitan
E.J 11 Districts 1 and 2, Christine Hethcock.
12 Second is Mr. David Shupe. Mr. Shupe is a
13 professional engineer, standing by to testify as need be as a
a14 septic consultant.
�j 15 Next is Mr. J.L. Walter. Mr. Walter is the
. ! 16 construction manager for the Metropolitan Districts.
Rat 17 Next is Mr. Kent Colborne. Mr. Colborne is the
[t 18 marketing director for the development company.
19 Next is Dr. Bob McGregor with Water & Waste
20 Engineering. Dr. McGregor is a water engineer here to answer
11(� 21 any questions about Milton Reservoir and its water quality.
22 We also have Mr. Paul Cockrel. Mr. Cockrel is the
C 23 legal counsel for the Metropolitan Districts.
24 Next is Mr. Chuck Carpenter. Mr. Carpenter is the
r 25 development company's legal counsel with regards to any oil
0
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1 and gas matters.
2 Next is Ms. Jackie Johnson. Ms. Johnson is the
3 development company's main legal counsel for day-to-day
4 matters.
5 And finally, Mr. David A. Clinger of David A.
6 Clinger & Associates. Mr. Clinger is the development
7 company's land planner. I 'll give you a bit more information
8 about Mr. Clinger and his background because if it will
9 please the Board, he's who would speak to you next.
10 Mr. Clinger has over 30 years experience in
11 planning open space in environmentally friendly communities.
C12 Additionally, over a quarter of a million residents now live
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13 in those Clinger-planned communities. Mr. Clinger has been
14 recognized multiple times by the National Association of Home
15 Builders for his designs. His work has also been
16 acknowledged, printed and awarded by organizations such as
17 Professional Builder, Urban Land Institute and Home & Garden
1
18 Network.
19 At this time, if it would please the Commissioners,
[ 20 I would like to present to you David Clinger.
21 MR. CLINGER: Good morning, Commissioners. My name
{�^ 22 is David Clinger. My address is 21759 Cabrini Boulevard,
t 23 Golden 80401.
24 If it would please the Board, I would like to pass
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25 out copies of my presentation so that you can follow along as
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1 I present this case.
fl 2 (Pause. )
3 MR. CLINGER: And I would ask, Monica, if you could
4 put the master plan up on the projector?
5 I'm a little slow here in getting started, but I
i_ 6 think I 'm ready. Thank you.
r 7 As Monica stated, the substantial change
�) 8 application for this project for 419 lots was approved by the
9 Planning Commission and the County Commissioners in 2001.
10 The revised final plat for Filing 2 reduced the density by
El11 113 lots from the original approval back in 2000 -- or the
12 original plan back in 2000. So the plan was reduced for this
" 13 Filing 2 by 113 lots to 406 lots.
E ' 14 It's important to note, also, that in working with
E ' 15 staff and listening to you and the Planning Commission; that
16 this Filing 2 was changed so that each lot will have a
17 minimum of two-and-a-half acres. The first filing had lots
18 that were smaller, and we have found that having larger lots
19 I think serves all the interest with the protecting the
20 environment and the septic fields and working with oil and
El21 gas. So all these lots are a minimum two-and-a-half acres.
22 And since that last meeting, we made changes to the
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23 plan to accommodate the oil and gas companies. The plan was
24 reworked with the oil and gas mineral owners to reasonably
25 accommodate their oil and gas well locations, the batteries,
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1 the flow lines, the future drilling sites, access, et cetera.
t1 2 We have spent over eight months surveying and negotiating
3 with them to accommodate their needs. So all these oil and
1] 4 gas facilities, lines, everything, has been surveyed in the
r5 field. And the plat, it shows and indicates all these
`i 6 facilities. And so the easements, et cetera, now are based
fl7 on accurate surveys. As you'll recall at that last meeting
J
8 we had, the oil and gas companies had some objections. And
9 I 'm happy to announce today that recently we have finalized a
0 10 final oil and gas agreement. It has now been signed, and I
11 think Mr. Morrison has a copy of that agreement, which has
12 been documented by both parties. So this is a major piece of
13 work that occurred on this project.
fl14 This developer, Commissioners, over the years has
15 relied on the master plan approval that was approved in 1989.
C 16 And this developer and the District has invested over six
B ' 17 million dollars in infrastructure and amenities to this date,
la
18 based on that master plan approval.
fl19 Now, I 'd like to go through this little package
��[^^ 20 that I presented to you, and I have them marked in the lower
U 21 right-hand corner, and I ' ll be very brief and go through this
Li22 quickly.
23 The No. 1 in your package there is a picture of the
fl24 entry house. This entry house is also used by the Sheriff 's
25 Department for security, not only for this project, but for
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1 the area. So they have phones, et cetera, in there, and this
2 is kind of their outlying little base that they use for
3 security purposes. And there's also an office in here and a
4 restroom in this entry building.
a
(� 5 The second picture in your package is that of the
L: 6 community center, and this is located in Filing 1. This
7 building is used for a mail room, a school bus pick-up and
8 drop-off, and the Metro District Offices. REI, the
9 developer, also leases it for sales, and it's available for
10 homeowner meetings and other functions, and that's located
Q11 (indicating) .
12 The third picture is a photo of the marina. And,
13 Monica, your pictures there were taken on a bad day. It was
14 raining and kind of dreary. It' s kind of pretty out there.
15 This marina has been constructed by the developer,
16 and they have spent to date $800, 000 on the marina. Last
C17 Saturday they had the first meeting of, it was called the
18 Canoe Club, and they all went out there and had a little
19 champagne breakfast and went canoeing on the lake. So this
20 is designed to accommodate the boats that will occur here,
21 and I 'll talk about that in a minute.
22 No. 4 picture is a photo of the three million
23 gallon water tank that was installed by the District that
j� 24 will serve all these lots.
[� 25 No. 5 in your package is the master plan, and it's
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1 folded, but you could open it up. And I 'd like to just go
El2 through that master plan quickly, if I might. And so that I
3 can stay on the microphone, I ' ll refer to this board here on
a4 my right.
5 My master plan for Pelican Lake will incorporate
6 46.8 percent of the site in open space, which is shown here
7 in dark green. 43 percent of Filing 2 is in open space. So
8 this area that is not colored here is all -- that's the main
9 amenity area out there that's part of Filing 1, and that is
10 all open space, and that is owned by this developer.
C11 As I stated earlier, these lots have been increased
12 now in Filing 2 to a minimum of 2. 5 acres. There are some
13 lots that are up to three acres.
14 Throughout the development we have designed a
15 series of equestrian trails that wind all through this open
Es 16 space, and there will be approximately 14 miles of trails in
17 Filing 2 , and, of course, there are additional trails here in
i
�nE1 18 the main amenity area, which is part of Filing 1.
U 19 The homes, what I 've tried to do in this plan is
u 20 cluster them in groups. Almost all lots abut face the open
21 spaces. So the people will be able to enjoy this site, the
22 open spaces and the trails and will not be confined by lots
23 all around them.
24 There is an environmental setback here along Milton
c.
25 Reservoir and the canal, the Platte Valley Canal. This was
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111 1 worked out over the years with the Bureau of Reclamation
2 through a consultant we had, ERO. And it respects the
3 environmentally sensitive areas along this reservoir. This
4 reservoir is a great place for migratory bird life. There's
�1 5 lots of deer out there. It's a beautiful place. And the
a
6 homes along this setback have -- are restricted with building
7 envelopes, and there's another setback from the lots and then
fl8 the protected area.
[1 9 In addition, from our last meeting, there was
10 another area added, which will also be part of this
11 environmental protection district.
ri12 The design of the overall plan here, what I 'm
13 trying to do is try to design this so it is very sensitive to
14 this open prairie environment. And I think with having
15 almost 50 percent of the site open space, and I ' ll show you
16 in a minute how we have very carefully controlled the
F ; 17 development on each lot, I think you' ll begin to see that
t 18 this really -- this design really attempts to really marry
19 the beauty of the plains out there and not try and change it
20 into something else.
21 Each individual lot has had a lot of thought going
fl22 into the controls. And No. 6 in your package, if we could go
(CJ 23 to 6 and follow this? These lots are subject to very
11 24 thorough covenants and restrictions. First of all, the lot
25 lines cannot be fenced. You know, we see so many
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! 1 subdivisions where all the lot lines are fenced, and that
2 creates kind of a clutter. There will be no fencing
3 permitted.
4 The setbacks are 50 foot on the side yards, 50 in
5 the front and 50 in the rear when it's contiguous to open
1..; 6 space, which most of them are. The houses on each site are
7 restricted to a minimum of 1,900 square feet and shall
C 8 include a three-car garage. Building heights must have a
9 maximum height of two-and-a-half stories, and all the garages
10 must be side entry so that as you drive around, you don't
11 look into garage doors from the street. There must be a
12 minimum of 15 trees planted for each home site within six
13 months of the CO or the next planting season. And there's a
14 restriction as to the amount of area that can be irrigated,
15 and that's 5 percent of the lot.
16 Then on lots -- can I get my water here?
17 On the lots that do allow for horses, I believe we
18 restricted it to 30 percent -- 25 percent of the lots are
19 restricted to horses. The other lots are not permitted to
t.!
20 have horses. On those lots, only 5 percent of the lot area
21 may be combined with privacy fencing for the paddock and
22 barns. And the typical barn or the equestrian lots can only
23 have a maximum of 864 square feet.
24 Any disturbed areas on these lots will be seeded
25 with native grasses and other approved zeroscaping. And if
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1 you go to No. 7 out there, we have a group that is in charge
�? 2 of immediately seeding these areas after they're disturbed,
3 and these are seeded with the native grasses in the area.
4 The mailboxes for the project -- are there any
t�
5 questions, Commissioners, on the lot layout and the
11 6 restrictions? Yes, sir?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I had one question. The lots that
8 are indicated in yellow --
L 9 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
L 10 THE CHAIRMAN: -- are -- what's the difference
11 between those?
12 MR. CLINGER: Those lots have building envelopes
e 13 which restrict where the building can go, and those are
E 14 constrained by gas lines that were measured in the field.
L� 15 And so every homeowner out there now, our oil and gas
[J 16 agreement indicates very thoroughly that every homeowner will
r, 17 be given a complete copy of the oil and gas agreement. And
U 18 it talks about the setbacks from the gas lines that run
19 through lots. It talks about the setbacks in use areas for
20 the open space with the oil and gas wells. It's a very
21 thorough document that will be given to each owner, and then
fl
it 22 the plat will have these yellow areas with the building
23 envelopes restricted on those lots. I think you were
24 touching upon that earlier.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. If I might interrupt, and I
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1 apologize, but in an effort for these proceedings to flow in
2 a most respectful manner as we can, I want to be able to give
3 the opportunity to anybody who might want to be giving some
4 public testimony, who will not be able to attend at all this
5 afternoon. I want to be able to maybe provide them an
6 opportunity to make their statements available this morning.
7 We're going to be breaking at 11:50, which is about
8 20 minutes. So if I might, if this would be an appropriate
9 time in order to be able to get everybody to be able to have
(� 10 their opportunity, I would like to interrupt your
E1 11 presentation at this time and ask if there's anybody who
12 would not be able to be present this afternoon. We will
13 reconvene at 1: 30, but if there is nobody who is able to, I
`{ 14 would ask -- I will open this up to public hearing at this
15 time. And if you would, when I open that -- or I have opened
16 it up, but when I ask you to come forward -- I also want to
El
�{ 17 make the parameter, and I ' ll state this again this afternoon,
18 that please, in order for the Commissioners to be able to
(? 19 best utilize your testimony, please keep your statements
20 focused on this application or on this final -- on this plan
21 within the zoning. There's been some argument over the past
22 whether the zoning was appropriate or not. That's already
23 been done. We need to -- if you have any statements or
r24 opposition or support, please keep them addressing the plan
[) 25 that is before us or the deficiencies or the attributes as
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1 you discover them and as you wish to testify. And that way
2 we' ll be able to keep it focused on this initial application
3 that is before the Board at this time.
4 So I saw two hands. I'd ask you at this time if
5 you' ll like to come forward? Please, we' ll ask Mr. Clinger,
C6 if he might sit down for a moment. And, sir, if you'd like
7 to come forward, and at this time I ' ll open it up to public
8 testimony. And I appreciate your bearing with us. Thank
9 you.
10 And if you could start with your name and address
[1 11 for the record, please, and thank you.
a12 MR. OSTER: My name is Dan Oster. My address is
13 23457 Weld County Road 57, Kersey. I also have property that
14 is very, very near the area that is in question here.
J
15 And, Chairman Long and Commissioners, I do
16 appreciate the opportunity to be considered here.
�r 17 My concern I think has probably -- well, several
" 18 parameters. One, the septic systems, and I 'm familiar with
19 the engineering of a system that requires that. However, I 'm
20 not familiar with, and I don't think there is in existence a
21 proper test to make sure that, in fact, that it was attempted
22 that the perk rate would be slowed down. I don't know if we
23 can really test that it has been. And I 'm very concerned
24 about the nitrate level in the area. A farm that I have just
25 a few miles from this relies on the groumdwater for drinking
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F 1 water, and as do many in the area, and the nitrate level
�+ 2 increase rapidly.
3 I noticed that there are a lot of unsold lots here
4 yet. My concern is that I think it's a mistake to approve a
5 lot more when they haven't really sold all that have been
[ 7 6 approved. The soil types have already been addressed, and it
., 7 is extremely fragile. I grew up in the area, still operate
ii 8 there. The traffic is a real problem, and I certainly
9 appreciate your concern, Commissioner Jerke about especially
10 Road 42 going west of 39. Also, traveling east of 39, 42 and
11 then on to 43 and then north to the portion that is black-
.1 12 topped north on Road 44 is an area that is used very, very
13 heavily, and I think any increase in population out there is
Q14 certainly going to have a real increase in that.
15 It appears to me that there's an awful lot of
16 resale going on out there, and I 'm just wondering whether the
+, 17 customers are happy. It's very easy to -- and I realize
��Li 18 these folks have done an excellent job of marketing their
19 product. They have some very beautiful buildings that are up
20 there now, the entrance. The brochures are very beautiful.
ri
21 But the area is extremely fragile, and I 'm just wondering if
try 22 there's a high degree of satisfaction, those that are already
C� 23 living there. Sometimes I know we do talk a lot about buyer
24 beware. Sometimes it's hard for a buyer to really know all
25 of what he might be getting into when he buys in an area that
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C 1 has such fragile soil.
2 For instance, the trails, the equestrian trails, I
3 think will very soon be rather than trails, be trenches,
4 because you all know what the wind does to fragile soil, and
5 you know what hoofs do to any cover on this soil. And so I 'm
6 just very concerned. I don't want to take any more of your
7 time, but I certainly would urge a lot of caution here, and I
8 would hope that this would be denied.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Oster.
10 Are there any questions?
11 (No response. )
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
13 I saw another hand. Ma'am, if you'd like to come
n 14 forward, please? Thank you.
LJ 15 MS. TEETERS: My name is Mary Jane Teeters, 16492
16 Essex Road South, Platteville, Colorado 80651. I am a
17 homeowner out there. I 'm speaking on behalf of my husband
18 and I, who could not be here today.
(� 19 We have lived there for a little over two years,
�J 20 love the area very much. I am from Brush, Colorado, used to
21 the country, very delighted that I have the opportunity to go
22 back to the country, but in a smaller version. We have a
23 little over two-and-a-half acres.
24 I think it would be very beneficial for Filing 2 to
( 25 pass, not only for the property taxes that the County would
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1 be receiving, also very beneficial to Weld County for the
2 retail industry. I know myself and all neighbors that I talk
3 to come into Weld County to do our shopping.
fJ 4 I know that there was a reference in the newspaper
5 about the lack of a grocery store. There were some concerns
6 that if you have that big of an area, you don't have a
a7 grocery store. I 'd just like to remind them that LaSalle
8 does not have a grocery store as well, and that's who we were
C1 9 compared to.
10 And we didn't move out there -- speaking for
11 myself, we didn't move out there to bring the city with us.
12 We moved out there to get away from the city. So I would
13 discourage those type of developments to happen out there.
14 We live in a very high in-housing development that has very
15 nice covenants. I believe that that will continue to have
16 our property value up, as well as those surrounding
17 properties around us.
18 And I just want to address the pavement issue on
19 the high school, et cetera. When you choose to live where we
20 choose to live, being that far out, a mile or two to get to a
21 paved road is not really a concern. It's pretty easy to get
22 to, and we realize that as being part of, like I say, when we
23 chose to move out there.
24 Lastly, I know that everyone knows that the
25 amenities have been a concern. Again, we did not move out
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1 there for the amenities. They would be nice, certainly, for
2 those who would like to utilize them. I feel that if you
3 wanted to live someplace that has a swimming pool, a golf
4 course, those other areas, you should have moved to a place
5 that had a swimming pool and golf course.
6 Thank you very much for your time.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Are there any questions? Commissioner Geile?
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yes. The covenants that
10 you're operating under, were they just recently adopted, or
11 have they always been in place? Well, excuse me, when did
12 you purchase the property?
13 MS. TEETERS: When?
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah.
{�+g 15 MS. TEETERS: We've been there about two-and-a-half
L 16 years. I 'm sorry, a little over two years. We moved in June
a17 of 2001.
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: When you purchased the
19 property, were there covenants in effect or --
20 MS. TEETERS: Yes.
11 21 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay.
22 MS. TEETERS: No, very much so.
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And these are the covenants as
24 you're referring to?
25 MS. TEETERS: Yes. My husband is a home builder
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El1 himself, not in this area, but he went through the covenants
2 with a fine-tooth -- what am I trying to say -- very
3 thoroughly. And that was one of the reasons we chose that
t ' 4 area because of the high standard of covenants.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Jerke?
6 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
A 7 I just wanted to inform you that there is a new
dui 8 grocery store in LaSalle.
9 MS. TEETERS: Is there?
10 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Located at the stoplight.
11 It's at the location where, unfortunately, there was a gas
12 leak the last couple of years.
13 MS. TEETERS: Oh, is that what that American Food
14 thing is? Okay.
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: It's very exciting. It's a
16 small store, but you're all welcome, I 'm sure.
17 MS. TEETERS: Okay. I haven't been there. I did
18 see that there was something that had moved in, but I didn't
19 know it was a grocery store.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions?
21 Commissioner Masden?
22 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Ma'am, do you -- you said
23 your husband is a builder, but not in this area?
24 MS. TEETERS: Um-hum.
25 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: So you guys do -- you and
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r 1 your husband do commute, I guess?
2 MS. TEETERS: Well, due to an unfortunate
P
3 circumstance, that is true. He was hired to do a development
4 in Brighton, Colorado. Unfortunately, there was some shake-
5 up with the ownership of that company, and the result of it,
fl6 they did pull out of Brighton. His company is based in
7 Pueblo, so the good news is he still has a job. The bad news
r
8 is it was in Pueblo. But it was our intent to come out here
9 to build homes in this area. He actually worked for Village
10 Homes, who is building in Fort Collins, for about 14 years.
11 Had an opportunity to go to someone who he had a history
ri 12 with. Chose to go to this new company, and, unfortunately,
13 because of the shake-up, he is building in Pueblo right now.
14 You know, addressing that there 's a lot of homes
15 for sale out there, I may find myself in that position
16 because he may have to move -- we may have to move to Pueblo.
P.
17 So there's obviously reasons why homes are turning over out
i
18 there.
C, 19 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. Thank you.
1
20 MS. TEETERS: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Vaad?
22 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Could you comment on the
-1 23 quality of your drinking water?
24 MS. TEETERS: I absolutely drink it all the time.
r
25 I do not buy bottled water. I am very particular. I come
El
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1 from Highlands Ranch. I bought all my water up there because
11 2 it did have a chlorine taste. I 'm very sensitive to good
J
3 water. I drink strictly tap water.
4 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you.
E 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Jerke?
6 COMMISSIONER JERKE: To follow up on that, what is
El 7 your water source?
8 MS. TEETERS: Weld County.
9 COMMISSIONER JERKE: It is Central Weld Water,
a10 isn't it?
11 MS. TEETERS: Central Weld County.
n 12 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions?
14 (No response. )
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
16 MS. TEETERS: Thank you very much.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Is there anybody else
18 that will not be able to attend this afternoon?
19 (No response. )
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. At this point, then, I will
[.1 21 close public testimony, and just remind you, we' ll have 10
22 more minutes before we' ll break for lunch. And so I ' ll turn
fJ
23 the floor back over to the applicant and Mr. Clinger. Or
24 Commissioner Geile had a question.
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I did have a question as we're
a
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1
1 going through this. I do want to make sure that I understand
(' 2 a couple of things.
E 3 MR. CLINGER: Yes, sir.
4 COMMISSIONER GEILE: First of all, who is the owner
5 of Phase 2 and Phase 1? Are they the same owner?
t! 6 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: So when the current owner
8 purchased -- he purchased the whole thing, Phase 1 and Phase
9 2, both?
�] 10 MR. CLINGER: Yes, the other, the previous owner,
fJ 11 one of the main partners died, and this group purchased his
12 interest.
1Li 13 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. And there has been a
14 general warranty deed exchanged or some kind of instrument
7
15 exchanged? In other words, this isn't contingent upon things
16 moving ahead, or is it?
17 MR. CLINGER: No, it's not.
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: The other question --
D19 MR. CLINGER: It is purchased.
20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: The other question I had, and
fl 21 these, as you're going through this, I just want to make sure
22 that --
23 MR. CLINGER: Yes, sir.
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE: -- I 'm on the same page. But
25 the six million dollar investment that's been made, has that
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1 been an infusion into the Metropolitan District, or was that
1 2 the purchase price of the project?
3 MR. CLINGER: Well, that's infusion into the Metro
4 District, does not include the purchase price.
5 Shall I go ahead and continue, Mr. Chairman?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Please, yeah. We have about eight
7 minutes, and then we' ll --
8 MR. CLINGER: Eight minutes, okay. You just let me
El 9 know.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: That's all right. Thank you.
11 MR. CLINGER: In keeping with the context of those
12 entry buildings and the little community building that I
13 showed you, future buildings shown here in red, these are
14 mailbox and bus stop areas, and we've worked that out with
15 the School District. Those would be buildings utilizing the
16 same parkitectural theme. This parkitecture is a word that I
17 coined when I designed the project up in Bachelor Gulch. I
18 don't know if you're familiar with that, up near Vail. And
(� 19 so what we're trying to do is create buildings out here that
f 20 really feel -- kind of speak to a western theme with the
21 green roofs and the logs, and we're trying to create a feel
22 here that looks like these buildings are part of a national
23 park architectural theme. And that will be carried out
24 throughout the project and also as we get into the main
25 amenity area down the road.
C' �
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t1 The Milton Reservoir here, which is somewhere
J2 around 800 acres, has been leased by this developer, and they
3 have a lease with Fryco, an exclusive lease on this 1
4 reservoir. This reservoir, the covenants and conditions only
5 permit boating with motors up to five horsepower. It only
ii6 permits sailing and fishing. Bird watching is permitted, of
a7 course. Swimming is not permitted in this reservoir, and
8 there are signs out there posting it as such.
E 9 This reservoir is similar in water quality and
10 usage to the Barr Lake, which is known all over the area as a
11 11 wildlife refuge, and people really enjoy watching the
^ 12 wildlife out there, but you're not permitted to swim in Barr
IL 13 Lake.
El14 And Dr. McGregor, who has done a very thorough
15 study for us, will be testifying after lunch as to the
j [1 16 quality of this reservoir and the uses that are restricted on
17 this reservoir.
18 Commissioners, we are very cognizant of this
19 reservoir and its water, and we have made every attempt to
pi
20 protect the public out there with the usage of this
Q21 reservoir.
22 The access to the marina will be on an access road
23 from this point here, out here to the marina, which is shown
24 here, and that will be controlled by a gate. And we have
1
25 submitted detailed landscaping plans, which I don't want to
11
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1 bore you with, but those have been submitted with the PUD.
2 Since the Planning Commission hearing and during
3 the negotiations with the mineral owners, an additional road
r4 has been added to provide better access from the project.
a
5 The plan that you looked at and was approved by the Planning
Ii6 Commission did not have this link. In working with the
7 School District, they wanted -- and the fire department --
8 they wanted us to provide this road so that if you live in
9 here, you wouldn't have to go all the way around here to go
r
10 up to the school and the fire station site. So that road has
El11 been added since the plan was approved.
12 Also, additional open space here was added. I
13 think this is around 30 acres, isn't it, Monica?
14 MS. MIKA: I think it's 40-some.
[S
15 MR. CLINGER: 40-some acres. And this was added at
il16 the request of Monica because this ownership is vested in
17 REI, and Monica wanted this to be reserved forever as part of 11 18 this open space and wildlife refuge, and so we have committed
fl19 to that thanks to you, Monica.
20 One gentleman -- I only have a few minutes to go --
, 21 talked about the residents out here, and before you break for
22 lunch, I would like to state and submit to you signed letters
II23 from -- we have 33 of our homeowners have signed letters,
y" 24 which I would like to give to the County Attorney, supporting
25 this project. And in addition, we have 18 business owners in
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1 Platteville that have signed letters supporting our project.
�+ 2 So we have overwhelming support for our project.
3 These people bought out here with the understanding
4 that this was an approved master plan community. And if this
5 Filing 2 would be denied, it would put the Metro District in
6 severe financial constraints because all this money that's
7 been spent for the future of this project would have to be
8 borne by 188 homeowners. And they want this development to
9 go forward. They like it out there. They're looking forward
10 to the other phases, the amenities, and so we have
I
11 overwhelming support. And I 'd like to give that to the
12 attorney.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Geile has a question.
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah. Your statement about
15 having to absorb all of the cost to the Metropolitan
ri 16 District, isn't there a limit of 50 mills?
17 MR. CLINGER: I think our attorney -- I 'm just the
18 land planner, so I can't answer that question, sir.
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. Yeah, that' s an
20 interesting statement to make, but I think there is
21 limitation on the mill levy.
22 MS. MIKA: 40 mills.
23 MR. CLINGER: 40 mills? It's 40 mills.
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE: 40 mills. And I think you're
[J
25 probably there right now, aren't you, as I recall with our
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1 1 hearing, the last hearing?
2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, they are.
3
3 MS. MIKA: Yes, we are.
ii4 MR. CLINGER: I think if we go to the next item in
5 your package, No. 7, I think I talked about the erosion. All
fl 6 disturbed areas, revegetation, seeding and mulching are
0 7 scheduled immediately as seasons allow and are professionally
8 installed by the District.
fl9 And then under 8 in your package is a document that
10 talks about the strict and complete covenants. And rather
L1 11 than going through all of that, I think I 've discussed most
12 of that, but if you would like to look at that over lunch,
13 please do so, but that does indicate the thoroughness of
F 14 these equestrian -- Pelican Lake, Equestrian Center and the
�EII 15 covenants.
, : 16 And No. 9 talks about additional restrictions with
I 17 regards to dogs and cats and satellite dishes, et cetera, et
0 18 cetera.
fl 19 No. 10 is the proposed revegetation plan, which
20 discusses how all these disturbed areas will be revegetated,
I21 and that is given to all the homeowners.22 And then No. 11 talks about the Trail Waste System
23 Handling Plan, which indicates these trails will be
a24 maintained over the years as this development occurs.
25 And then last is an inclement weather road
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1 maintenance plan.
2 I think, Mr. Chairman, that this would be a good
J
3 time for me to stop because we have our next speaker, David
4 Shupe, our engineer, who will get into this very thoroughly
5 after lunch with regards to the septic systems.
FJ 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any questions for right
7 now?
El
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, I just did want to make
9 sure, if I may? The covenants that you have presented, are
10 they same for Phase 1 and Phase 2? These covenants, as I
11 assume are Phase 2 covenants, are they the same for Phase 1?
Q12 MR. CLINGER: That's correct, yes. I think --
13 aren't -- excuse me. Let me ask.
14 MS. MIKA: (inaudible) .
15 MR. CLINGER: They are for Filing 1, and then
t' 16 Filing 2 has not been annexed yet, but will be after this
17 project is approved.
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But what you presented as here
���^11 E ' 19 is an outline of covenants. I assume this is Phase 2 . Are
Ent' 20 they the same for Phase 1?
21 MR. CLINGER: It would be used for Phase 1 and 2 .
22 COMMISSIONER GEILE: So Phase 1 and Phase 2
ltJ! 23 covenants will be the same?
fl 24 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: All right. Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. At this point, then, we will
2 break for lunch, and we'll come back with the applicant's
3 presentation. We' ll be in recess, and we ' ll reconvene at
0 4 1:30. Thank you.
5 (Whereupon, a luncheon recess was taken. )
6
E 7
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(' 1 AFTERNOON SESSION
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon. We' ll reconvene as
3 the Board of County Commissioners.
4 I believe we were at some point within the
5 applicant's presentation. So, Mr. Clinger, I 'd ask you to
6 come forward, and I think you were going to a new area of
7 your presentation.
!J 8 MR. CLINGER: Yes. Mr. Chairman, members of the
9 Commission, just before lunch, I think I had a case of
10 whooping mouth disease. I think I made some wrong statements
U11 about the District, and I was going to have our attorney for
12 the District speak a little later, but I think he needs to
13 clarify a couple statements I made and then answer some of
14 the District situations. So I 'm going to ask him to come up
J
15 now. Mr. Paul Cockrel.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Very well.
17 MR. COCKREL: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman,
li
A� 18 Commissioners. My name is Paul Cockrel. I am General
CJ 19 Counsel for the Beebe Draw Farms Metropolitan Districts. My
�J 20 address is at Collins, Cockrel & Kohl, PC, at 390 Union
21 Boulevard, Suite 400, in Denver.
22 I guess I would tell you that I have served the
23 District as long as it has existed. I participated in the
11 24 formation of the District after the original land use plan
25 was approved, and I have been before this Commission
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1 previously, and I believe I have spoken to some, if not all
2 of you Commissioners previously.
3 And I don't think I need to explain the District,
!-.7 4 but I ' ll just give a couple of maybe major features of the
5 District, both its structure and its current status and then
J
6 respond to questions that have been raised by some of you
7 individually or respond further after that, if you have
�R�
8 additional questions.
fl9 The District itself was created in 1986. It was
^ 10 restructured in 1999. At that time this Commission approved
Its{ 11 a dual District structure, and the consolidated service plan
p12 is on file with the County as approved. It has not been
13 modified since then.
14 The Districts are authorized to provide all of the
15 services identified under the Special District Act, with one
16 exception, and that is sanitation. It really never was
17 anticipated that there would be a centralized sewerage system
18 serving the District from the beginning. As far back as I
19 can remember, septic systems were anticipated. The service
a20 plan does recognize, however, that the powers of the District
21 can be expanded to provide these services. The District
22 Board has reviewed the proposed management plan, if you will,
23 for septic systems, and the Board is perfectly willing to
24 implement that if this is the system approved by the County.
25 That can be done procedurally simply by notice and acceptance
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1 to the County, or if the County prefers, we can also process
r2 an amendment to the service plan. But we will cooperate
3 fully with the County in completing that. The District would
4 not anticipate expanding any of its services beyond that set
5 forth in this modified septic tank management plan, i.e. , I
6 don't think the District has any intention of actually
r7 installing a centralized sewage treatment and collection
8 system.
[1 9 The District has made a number of improvements
10 since its organization. Just referring to the last completed
0 11 audited financial statement of the District, which is done on
r12 an annual basis as required by statute, the District has
13 assets of $6.9 million, including $2 . 3 million in roadways, I
r14 think all of which or the majority of which have been
11 15 transferred to the County, $1.3 -- almost $1. 4 million in
16 water facilities and water distribution systems. They have
0 17 acquired about $700, 000 in CDT and related water rights for
18 transfer to the Central Weld Water District. The District
fl19 has constructed about $1. 4 million in recreational
20 facilities, and the District also holds about $1.4 million in
II21 asset value of property, which are basically the open space
22 properties and developed trails and related matters. And the
23 District, of course, would be more than pleased to file its
L 24 independent audited statements with the County, if the County
J
25 would like to have copies of those. I believe the last time
0
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1 we did that, Mr. Morrison, was in 1999, when the consolidated
(� 2 service plan was approved.
�J 3 Having said that, let me also make a note about the
4 Fryco lease. I think that was mentioned earlier by one of
r 5 the presenters. The original agreement between Fryco and the
rJ 6 developer was made I believe in 1986, and after the District
Ti 7 was formed, that lease was transferred or assigned to the
8 District, and the District is the current party in interest
9 there, and the lease does provide for recreational use of the
10 lake, although that is limited, as was indicated to five El 11 horsepower motors as far as boats are concerned.
12 Maybe I should point out, also, I think the
13 confusion at the end of the presentation this morning related
14 to the District's financial powers and its authority. Let me
15 tell you that the District actually in 1998, it issued $2
t 16 million worth of general obligation bonds. Those bonds
17 mature in 20 years, so there's about 15-year term left at
18 $200, 000 annual
cc77 , payment on those bonds, principal and
p � 19 interest payment. The District has incurred no other
LLB 20 property tax supported debt. The District only needs a 15
21 mill levy to pay that currently. It has never been in
22 default of its bonds. It does not anticipate being in
i
23 default of its bonds.
24 The District is in sound financial condition. The
25 financial statements of the District were issued without any
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l: 1 conditions, and we do not anticipate financial difficulties
a2 in repaying the bond.
3 You may recall that the consolidated financing plan
t :
4 itself anticipated that future improvements would be
a 5 completed by the Districts and would be paid for in one of
6 two fashions: Either from the property tax of the District,
a7 which has historically been 40 mills. It cannot exceed 50
8 mills unless there is a modification to the service plan. I
r9 think one of the Commissioners recalled that. And the
�'
10 District does not anticipate issuing any sort of unlimited
n11 financial obligations in the future. In fact, the financing
a12 plan basically is structured so that the majority future
J
13 infrastructure cost are funded through developer fees that
P
a14 are assessed of the developer at the time of lot sales.
J
15 Now, to the extent that the District continues to
r16 produce -- will continue to produce property taxes from its
17 40 mills levy, that will go to support debt service, and to
G 18 the extent that there's excess money left over from that,
r19 that would be used to pay for capital improvements or to pay
20 any additional obligations of the District.
P21 The District does have authorized debt as allowed
�j 22 under the service plan. The District has not issued further
U 23 debt, principally because of the status of the development.
a24 The Consolidated Service Plan anticipated that by 1999 the
25 marina facilities would be completed. They, in fact, were
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H 1 completed towards the end of '99 or in 2000. It also
2 anticipated that by 2001 the community clubhouse and the
3 swimming pool would be completed. Those have not been
t ' 4 completed. They have not been completed because the
t 5 financing plan also anticipated that Filing 2 would be
fl6 developed by this time, or at least a substantial part.
n 7 I went back and I just checked the service plan to
L 8 make sure I was accurate about this, and by 2001 when the
9 marina was to be constructed, it was anticipated that there
10 would be 164 units or single-family residences constructed on
n 1 the property. By this time in 2003 , it was anticipated there
12 would be 344 units. That amount of assessed valuation, of
13 course, would have supported additional bonding capacity,
fl14 but, in fact, there are only 38 homes constructed on the
15 property, 10 under construction, and the District has not
16 considered it to be prudent, fiscally prudent, to issue any
17 kind of additional debt until the status of Filing 2 is
U18 decided.
�"I 19 Now, I think it is fair to say, though, that the
�� 20 ability to construct some of the -- particularly the
21 recreational amenities is dependent upon additional build-out
22 of the project as anticipated in the service plan, including
11 23 the build-out of the units that are projected in Filing 2.
1 24 I 'd be happy to answer your questions.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Cockrel.
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1 Are there any questions for Mr. Cockrel at this
11 2 time? Commissioner Geile?
� { 3 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, when is the agreement
4 with Fryco, when is that scheduled to terminate?
5 MR. COCKREL: It terminates in 2016. It was a 30-
fri
f= 6 year lease, and I can't believe it's halfway through the
7 lease. But it is anticipated to terminate in 2016.
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE: The other question that I had
fl9 is if this were approved today and you were to move ahead
10 with your Metropolitan District, I guess I 'm having a little
[ J 11 hard time to understand the basis that you've used for Filing
12 No. 1, you're saying that you almost need Filing No. 2 to be
13 able to subsidize what's going on in Filing No. 1. That
fl14 includes the builder fees and everything else that you' ll be
[J 15 charging to put into your revenue stream to be able to
16 service your debt.
17 I guess what I 'm trying to figure out, from what
18 you've said, yeah, you're probably financially stable, but
19 yet you can't finish some of the improvements in Phase 1
1
20 based upon the investments in Phase 1. And granted, it's
21 only 48 units have been built or in the process of being
22 built out of 188, I think; isn't that correct?
23 MR. COCKREL: It's 177, but you're right in the
(� 24 ball park.
L1 25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, right. But I guess I 'm
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1 having a hard time looking at Phase 2 and understanding how
LJ 2 the Metropolitan District can actually afford to move past
LJ 3 Phase 1 because of the fact there's so many things that have
F4 been committed, you know, under the auspices of Phase 1 that
5 haven't even been completed or haven't even been started.
6 MR. COCKREL: I think it's a fair question. With
7 respect to the major infrastructure, water system, roadways,
8 drainage, those essentially will be funded from developer
TI9 fees and from tap fees that are collected. Those won't be
10 constructed until a phase is initiated and development moves
r11 forward. The District has an agreement with the developer to
� 12 commit itself to pay those fees at such time as they move
Eli 13 forward with that phase of development.
El14 Now, although if you read the consolidated
15 financing statement, I don't think it would be that clear,
TI16 but it was always anticipated that these recreational
17 amenities would be funded from property taxes that were left
18 over after payment of the current debt service expense, and
ri19 there were a little over $1 million in recreational amenities
20 that were to be provided for the project, as anticipated in
1 21 1999. About a little less than half of those have been
r. 22 constructed. The remainder of those would be constructed
IU 23 from this excess property tax revenue, which would be
24 generated in effect from additional valuation off new housing
25 units that are put in place.
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` 1 THE CHAIRMAN: Please continue.
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. Well, a little bit ago,
3 you talked about I think 15 of the 40 mills -- it almost
4 sounds like that's going to be used to service the debt.
5 MR. COCKREL: At the current assessed valuation of
6 the District, which is $13 million, it takes 15 mills
a7 annually to pay for debt service.
8 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. So you're saying that
9 the difference between that and the 40 mills, are the 40
10 mills being assessed?
11 MR. COCKREL: Yes.
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. I wanted to make sure
13 of that. The difference between that would be used to fund
14 or finance the other amenities?
I Li! nf 15 MR. COCKREL: That's right. For example, and I
E' 16 know that the District Board is now considering and
f+ 17 authorized at the last Board meeting an analysis of
t' 18 completing a swimming pool for the property or for the
11
19 development, and we're doing projects, or we're doing cost
20 analysis now on that facility, and then we' ll do a financial
a21 projection to see if that residual amount can, in fact, pay
r22 for the cost of building that pool or financing that pool
23 over a reasonable period of time. And that is our
24 expectation.
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Having said all of that, it
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1 gets back to a statement that was made earlier about the
2 owner infusing $6 million, and I asked was that into the
k�+ 3 Metropolitan District, and the answer was yes.
€. 4 MR. COCKREL: The developer infuses money into the
a5 District, if you will, via the development fee. That
6 development fee is paid at the time of the lot sale. The
El7 District relies heavily upon that development fee then to
8 complete or to fund and complete the roads, the water
9 distribution system, the off-site improvements and other
10 infrastructure, which are required for that new development.
11 COMMISSIONER GEILE: So in essence, it's a paper --
12 it's a paper trail? The $6 million is a paper trail? As the
J
13 development fees occur, then in essence, the dollars will
14 surface and go into the District?
15 MR. COCKREL: That's right. There are other
16 funding mechanisms that could be used, but that's
17 historically --
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: The developer didn't actually
19 submit $6 million worth of hard cash into the District in
20 essence?
11 21 MR. COCKREL: I think that's a fair conclusion.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions?
a
23 Commissioner Jerke?
r 24 COMMISSIONER JERKE: How big is that development
Ej
25 fee, then?
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1 MR. COCKREL: I think it's 15, 000 today. I 'm
2 sorry, it's 17, 000 per lot.
3 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And that's payable at building
4 permit or --
5 MR. COCKREL: It's actually I think paid either no
E.1 6 later than when the building permit is issued or upon the lot
7 sale, and I think it's currently being collected at lot sale
8 to a builder.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions?
10 Commissioner Masden?
11 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Thank you. Mr. Cockrel,
12 where does that 15, 000 or that development fee go actually?
13 MR. COCKREL: It goes into the District treasury,
[� 14 and it's held there until the capital project is authorized.
15 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: And it's only for the capital
16 project?
17 MR. COCKREL: Yes.
18 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: So it is earmarked for that?
19 MR. COCKREL: Yes, and in part because that 's more
20 or less of a statutory requirement. Although there isn't a
21 contractual agreement in place, that basically commits it for
a22 that same purpose.
23 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. You're talking about
24 that they're looking at a plan to start possibly building a
25 swimming pool?
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1 MR. COCKREL: That is presently being considered.
2 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay.
3 MR. COCKREL: And I 'm -- I 'm sorry.
4 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: If -- hypothetically, if this
r 5 does not pass today, will that still continue?
4J 6 MR. COCKREL: It will still be considered.
7 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. Any projection of
8 when it may happen or is that all on doing the financial
9 model you're looking at or --
10 MR. COCKREL: It's a little premature because I
11 don't think they've done the costing on that, and we
12 certainly haven't done the financial modeling. But I believe
13 it's reasonable to think that, again, at today's assessed
14 valuation, that that particular project, which is only one of
rn{ 15 several recreational amenities, could be afforded.
[.; 16 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Geile?
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I just -- one more
question.
19 You know, when you form a Metropolitan District, it's usually
20 the developer and the representatives that compose the
21 Metropolitan District --
11 22 MR. COCKREL: That's correct.
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE: -- as far as your board of
24 directors. Have you moved passed that structure, or is it --
25 is it moved passed that structure?
El
U
n
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n 67
�1 1 MR. COCKREL: We're moving past. We're moving
2 past. We have one owner resident on the board at the current
3 time, in District No. 1, and I think it is anticipated that
4 certainly before the elections in May, there hopefully will
5 be another developer, or another resident on the board.
6 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. For clarification, did
8 you say that development number was 17 1/2 thousand?
9 MR. COCKREL: That's 17, 500.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And for my clarification,
11 when you say considered, as far as the swimming pool, would
12 it be fair to say that a swimming pool, that some of those
13 amenities are being considered since the inception of the
14 development itself?
(�
15 MR. COCKREL: That's fair to say. And I think it
fl16 would be more appropriate for others who are more
{{{'''' 17 knowledgeable than me to talk about the recent surveys that
18 have been completed within the neighborhood to identified
r + 19 preferred facilities because that has been done, and I 'm just
l 20 not as aware of it as other people may be, so I ' ll defer that
21 question to someone else, if I could.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
23 Any other questions? Commissioner Masden?
24 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Thank you. Now, you were
c ,
25 saying they can charge up to 40 mills?
f
68
1 MR. COCKREL: We are charging 40 mills.
2 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: You are charging.
3 MR. COCKREL: Theoretically, we could go up to 50.
4 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. So, but you said it
5 would take another action or something to go up to the 50
6 mills?
7 MR. COCKREL: It always requires board action at a
8 public hearing to increase the mill levy.
9 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Right. So basically --
E�1� 10 MR. COCKREL: Or to issue additional debt.
fl11 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. So basically you're
12 capped out right now at the 40?
13 MR. COCKREL: Well, no, again, let me --
0 14 technically, we go up to the 50, but it hasn't been
15 necessary. It could go up to the 50, for example, just to
16 generate additional surplus revenue, which could be used for
17 capital purposes.
18 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Is there any financial
19 modeling, if this phase would be approved, on what the mill
Li
20 levy would be?
O21 MR. COCKREL: I don't think -- no. The answer to
22 your question is no, there is no financial modeling because
23 the service plan itself, the Consolidated Service Plan,
24 anticipated that Filing 2 would be approved with 724 total
25 units throughout the development. But even under that, it
a
0
11
69 11 1 was always presumed that the development fee would carry the
2 load for future infrastructure, that we would not burden the
3 existing property owners with that debt.
4 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay.
5 MR. COCKREL: In order to change that, it can be
6 changed, but among other things, we would have to come back
7 to this board to receive your approval to change the service
8 plan because that I think would be considered a material
a9 modification by the County.
tn� 10 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay.
LJ 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Jerke?
12 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 With respect to being able to raise the mill levy
14 without a vote of the property owners, apparently that's not
15 a tabor question? Apparently you can do that without vote of
a16 the people in this instance?
17 MR. COCKREL: It's not a tabor issue at this time.
18 It's been debruced.
19 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Geile?
21 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, and I know there's going
22 to be other questions along this line, but the $1.4 million
23 in water, is that infrastructure? And you also mentioned
24 some of it was CBT Water, or $700, 000 for CBT Water that's
c
25 been set aside. Also, in the initial presentation, it was
El
1
[I
fl 70
�l 1 mentioned that you have -- I think you said you have a
Li 2 commitment for 100 taps a year from Central Weld?
3 MR. COCKREL: We actually have a commitment to
F, 4 serve the entire development with a limitation that we won't
r 5 bring more than 100 taps on a year because it impacts them
6 both from a systems standpoint, and it would impact them
flj 7 because of the market value of water rights that would have
8 to be acquired in order to serve more than that.
I9 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. Well, my question is,
10 is out of the 188 -- or 178 lots in Phase 1, have you secured
11 the taps, the water taps, to serve all of those 178 units?
F12 MR. COCKREL: I asked that question earlier to one
13 of the developers, and I understand that we have secured most
14 of those, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 150, 160, do
15 you know?
16 MS. MIKA: Frankly, it's 179.
n 17 MR. COCKREL: Okay. So we have -- originally
( , 18 purchased apparently at 179 units. I can confirm that for
F, 19 you, but I can't, myself, as a witness, confirm that today.
20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But along that line, when I
I II
21 say you've secured it, you've actually not only secured it,
22 but you've also come up with the necessary CBT Water to be
ri
23 able to meet their raw water requirement?
11 24 MR. COCKREL: That's correct. And I will-- if my
25 statement is incorrect, I will supplement the record with
ri
s
y
4
I IT :
L)
n 71
1 that, and I will inform the County Attorney of the actual tap
r2 inventory. I just -- I didn't have that number offhand.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions for
fl4 Mr. Cockrel at this time?
5 (No response. )11 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 7 MR. COCKREL: Thank you.
8 MR. SHUPE: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and
9 Commissioners. My name is David Shupe. I 'm a registered
fr 10 engineer in the State of Colorado, one of a rapidly dwindling
I . 11 group of four-digit numbers, I might have. There aren't a
1 12 whole lot of us left. But before I begin my presentation, I
13 would like to call to your recollection one thing in regard
fl14 to the District's provision of sewage maintenance, and that
n 15 is that the addition of that service to the District's list
11 16 of services was one of the primary reasons why you approved
ri 17 the substantial change, if you' ll recall. And so I think the
U
18 question of whether the District should be doing that is a
fl19 question this body has already dealt with, is what I 'm really
20 getting at.
11 21 I 'd like to hand a group of copies of my statement
22 to the attorney. Some of what I have to say you've heard
I
23 before in the original second filing hearing and in the
lJ 24 substantial change hearing. So bear with me if I repeat
lJ 25 anything that seems untoward to you.
0
i
r
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f
72
n
111
1 I am an experienced soils engineer with nearly 40
(7 2 years now of background in septic system design and use. In
ri 3 1966, in fact, I served on the State Health Department
fl4 Committee which wrote the first State ISDS regulations,
5 Prior to that time we were using only U.S. Public Health
`I 6 Service Manual 526, if you' ll recall.
4
�" 7 The soils in this subdivision have been extensively
�) 8 investigated, and as you've heard it alluded to before, they
11 9 are quite uniform in their grain size, and that basically is
10 due to the fact that they are wind deposited, and this area
El11 is in an area where that size drops out of the wind. And
12 consequently, we have a situation where the grain size
13 distribution of the soils is very uniform and is almost, if
fl14 you plot it on a curve, it's a straight vertical line.
15 They're all the same size. So we have a situation where
11 16 percolation is very rapid, and, therefore, the area is not
17 suitable under the current regulations for standard septic
fl
18 system disposal. And I emphasize that word "disposal"
II19 because the system we have proposed does not depend solely on
[ ' 20 disposal, but rather upon treatment by subsurface sand
21 filtrations -- sand filtration, one of the oldest sewage
II
1Ii 22 treatment methods known to man, I believe. We actually treat
23 the effluent from the septic tank prior to its being
r24 disbursed, rather than being disposed of into the soils.
25 I'd like to emphasize again the fact that we are
11
11
^ 73
tU 1 not just disposing of effluent. We are treating it before
2 disbursing it. The system type that I mentioned, the
L 3 subsurface sand filtration, has been reviewed by Weld County
4 Health Department personnel and meets current County
11
5 regulations. Individual system designs, however, will each
6 be subject to County review and approval prior to the
fl7 construction of any unit.
8 Prior to the substantial change hearing, you may
El9 recall having received a proposed service plan addendum,
10 which outlines both the reasons why this method was chosen
ii 11 and the -- a typical type of design that could or would be
fl 12 used.
13 We have also prepared a management program, which,
fl14 again, has been reviewed by the County Health Department
15 rather extensively, and we believe has, at this point, their
fl16 at least general approval.
17 Our proposal places the design, the installation
il
18 and the maintenance of each new system under the joint
11 19 supervision of the Weld County Health Department and the
n 20 Beebe Draw Metropolitan District, and it will include all
1 21 lots in Filing 2, any lots currently unsold in Filing 1, with
22 additionally a provision for currently owned or developed
i
23 lots to apply to the District to be included in the proposed
24 maintenance program, should they so desire.
9
25 This program provides for ongoing maintenance,
El
1 fl
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74
ii n
1 including field and tank inspection, pumping at the
C3 2 appropriate time and groundwater quality monitoring. This is
3 proposed to be provided by the Metropolitan District and
11 4 reported to the Weld County Health Department, and those --
I 5 the criteria for those are contained in the management
i
6 proposal. The monitoring wells, which we have proposed to
7 use, are located on the plat, and we will be testing those
8 prior to development to establish a ground level, if you
!_, 9 will, basis for existing conditions.
10 The management proposal also provides for the
11 appropriate re-evaluation of any perceived system
12 malfunctions; that is, if there are changes or elevations in
13 the levels or concentrations of pollutants in the groundwater
14 monitoring wells, the proposal outlines the way in which we
n15 will determine the location of such contaminants, if any, and
16 the way to ameliorate the situation.
0 17 The cost of the maintenance program is also
18 outlined in the maintenance proposal and will be included in
19 the mill levy paid to the District by lot owners according to
20 the financial structure set forth in the District service
[[[ 21 plan. As I stated earlier, that amendment has been proposed
r 22 and awaits only your approval of the second filing for it to
Li
23 be enacted and become a part of the District.
24 To the best of my knowledge, such a highly-
25 organized and structured supervision and maintenance program
f
a
7
75
1 for individual sewage disposal systems within a subdivision
2 does not yet exist in Weld County, although such arrangements
3 exist in many places across the country, and I am aware of
4 several of those.
5 It's my understanding with Pam that we do meet the
6 requirements of the Weld County Health Department in
7 providing this ongoing maintenance inspection and monitoring.
8 And, quite frankly, it exceeds by far the care available to
9 most households who are served by septic systems in Weld
10 County or anywhere else, as far as that goes.
11 Someone has asked the question about whether there
12 is room enough for a primary and secondary septic system
13 location on these lots, and I have provided to the County
14 Health Department sketches showing that they are on the most
15 critical of the lots that have small building envelopes. A
16 system of this type for a five-bedroom home requires about
17 1, 700 square feet of area, and I would like to mention at
18 this point that usually with a subsurface sand filter, when
19 it needs to be replenished, you don't rebuild the system.
20 You simply open it up, take off the pipes, remove the sand,
21 which has become clogged at the top of the filter, usually
22 about two inches, replace it with new sand, put the pipes
23 back on and recover the system.
24 So a second envelope, while it is provided and does
25 fit, isn't likely to be needed. Nevertheless, we have
76
1 provided it. We 've shown it within the building envelopes,
2 even though with our agreement with the oil and gas
3 companies, it might not be necessary to have it within the
4 building envelope because what they're concerned about is
5 sources of ignition, and septic tanks normally don't burn
6 really well. Nevertheless, some of these may, in fact,
7 require a lift bump, depending on the topography of the
8 existing lot, and consequently, we have felt it advisable to
9 show that all of the septic tank, septic field or filter
10 field and its replacement would fit within even the smallest
11 of the building envelopes.
12 If, in fact, the County does require us to show
13 that for each lot of the 51 that have restricted building
14 envelopes, we can provide the rest of them. I have given her
15 -- what, Pam, maybe 10, or something of the sort. But I feel
16 that it 's not all that critical, and those would be provided
17 at the time a plot plan is proposed to the building
18 inspection department at any rate. So you' ll have another
19 shot at it, if you will, beyond this point.
20 You' ll notice that I have made a little bit of a
21 key, or what sort of looks like a key, out in the margin by
22 three salient points on my outline. The first is -- and I
23 would like to repeat these in closing. The first key is that
24 we are providing not just disposal, but treatment, with this
25 type of system.
77
1 The second is that the ongoing maintenance program
2 provides additionally beyond anything that the County
3 normally requires for groundwater monitoring to be sure that
4 we are not changing the quality adversely of the current
5 groundwater situation in the area.
6 And third, we are, in fact, intent on meeting all
7 of the requirements of the Weld County Health Department, not
8 bypassing any of them. And one of the ways that we think
9 this can best be done is by making the design of the system
10 part of the services of the District, as well as the
11 maintenance, so that all of them are designed at a uniform
12 level of availability, serviceability, and are -- and we keep
13 track of where they are.
14 As most of you are aware, most people, when they
15 have a septic system problem and you go out to find out what
16 it is, you ask them where the leach field is, and their first
17 response is, "Leach field?" They don't know where it is.
18 But if we design the system, we ' ll know where it is, and so
19 will the County.
20 If you have any questions, I 'd be glad to entertain
21 them.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Shupe.
23 Commissioner Geile?
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE: In your professional opinion,
25 what does it cost to put in this kind of a system in
78
1 comparison to a conventional system?
2 MR. SHUPE: It costs very little more because the
3 filter sand, which is specified in the design, is not a whole
4 lot different from concrete sand, to be real truthful, and
5 it's readily available. We have chosen, just as an
6 additional safety factor, to use a depth of four feet, rather
7 than the two feet, which the State Health Department
8 recommends, just simply to be sure that we are providing all
9 of the treatment that a subsurface sand filter is capable of
10 delivering. They do not cost a whole lot more, partly
11 because -- well, in this case, as you heard Pam say earlier,
12 the systems which have been engineered for existing homes,
13 have had to import material which percolates at a slower rate
14 than the sand on site anyway. So the importation of material
15 cost is about the same.
16 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I just had one other question.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Please continue.
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I guess it' s been about three
19 years ago when we originally heard this case. You had made
20 the statement that in order to do this kind of a system, and
21 I think you were referring to something maybe not this
22 elaborate, but at least you were talking about the
23 maintenance side of it, it would have to be inspected and
24 probably periodically pumped, which at that time meant to me
25 every year.
— 79
1 MR. SHUPE: No, that's not the case. It does not
2 need pumping that often. A septic system -- well, of course,
3 it depends on what you put into it. But generally, a septic
4 system for a single-family residence needs pumping, I would
5 say on the average about every four years.
6 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, along that line, you've
7 got a Metropolitan District and you've got covenants.
8 MR. SHUPE: Um-hum.
9 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Who 's going to be responsible
10 for the ongoing maintenance of the system, the covenants, the
11 Homeowners Association or the Metropolitan District?
12 MR. SHUPE: The Metropolitan District.
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And has that already been
14 structured within the Metropolitan District, or is that going
15 to have to be --
16 MR. SHUPE: That is outlined in the service plan
17 addendum, which will be acted upon and made a part of the
18 District' s structure once this filing is approved.
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. I wanted you to say
20 that.
21 MR. SHUPE: And the maintenance program is the same
- 22 thing. It will be added to it.
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Vaad?
25 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yeah, Mr. Shupe, were you
80
1 responsible, or are you responsible for the domestic water
2 system that's in place?
3 MR. SHUPE: No, I 'm not.
4 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Jerke?
6 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 Mr. Shupe, could you tell us again where the
8 monitoring wells are I guess for nitrate contamination?
9 MR. SHUPE: Well, they 're shown on the plat. I
10 don't know that I could point them out exactly, but they
11 start -- there are, I believe, a total of eight all together,
12 and four of them are along the canal or near the reservoir.
13 And one of them at least is in Filing 1, will be, and the
14 others are appropriately placed through the subdivision.
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: They're all on the downstream
16 side, so to speak?
17 MR. SHUPE: Not necessarily, no, because what we
18 are trying to do is establish the ground rules. Again, to
19 point of phrase, we want to know what the current level is,
20 and so some of them are up near the upper end.
21 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And do you have any kind of
22 numbers yet in parts per million --
23 MR. SHUPE: No, we do not.
24 COMMISSIONER JERKE: -- on --
25 MR. SHUPE: No, we do not yet.
81
1 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Per base line, you don't have
2 it?
3 MR. SHUPE: The wells have not yet been drilled.
4 They will be upon approval of the development. They will be
5 one of the first things done.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Masden?
7 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Thank you.
8 Mr. Shupe, you talked about monitoring wells, I
9 guess, and also, with this sand filtration system you're
10 talking about putting in, will that be put in by the
11 association, and will that be included in the development
12 fee?
13 MR. SHUPE: No, each home will be responsible for
14 the cost of the system' s installation, although the design
15 will be done by the District and furnished to the homeowner,
16 and the inspections made on the system during its
17 construction are exactly as now currently required by the
18 County Health Department. They will be made both by County
19 Health Department Sanitarians and by the District.
20 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: And what did you say the cost
21 of a system like this is?
22 MR. SHUPE: It's relatively the same --
23 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: The same?
24 MR. SHUPE: -- as a standard septic system would be
25 in that same area.
82
1 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. So using this
2 sand filtration system, can you have a smaller area?
3 MR. SHUPE: You do have a slightly smaller area,
4 yes, because the application rate is about one gallon per day
5 per square foot, where depending on your percolation rate --
6 well, we have some areas in Weld County, for instance, where
7 your application rate might be only about . 2 gallons per day.
8 Here, if you relied solely on percolation, I can't tell you
9 how small the system would be because the perk rate is about
_ 10 one minute per inch the way it is, and that' s not acceptable.
11 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. All right. Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Are there any other
13 questions? Commissioner Jerke?
14 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Yeah, it' s been asked a couple
15 of times. Just ball park, put hard dollars to the cost
16 generally speaking for each property?
17 MR. SHUPE: Again, it depends on the number of
18 bedrooms because that' s the basis for design, but you would
19 probably find it in the range of 6, 500, 7 , 000.
20 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
22 (No response. )
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Shupe.
24 MR. MCGREGOR: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman,
25 members of the Commission. My name is Robert McGregor. My
83
1 address is 621 17th Street, Denver, Colorado 80293 .
2 I 'm a registered professional engineer here in
3 Colorado and a principal engineer at the consulting
4 engineering firm of Water & Waste Engineering Incorporated.
5 And my educational background includes a doctorate in
6 environmental science and engineering. My professional
7 background includes a little more than 30 years of consulting
8 engineering experience in the fields of water supply, waste
9 water treatment and development of water quality standards to
10 protect uses of our water resources.
11 Our firm has been asked by the Metropolitan
12 District to review the water quality issues related to Milton
13 Reservoir as they apply to this proposed development. And
14 just in quick summary, Milton Reservoir is a -- primarily an
15 agricultural reservoir. It was built for that purpose
16 originally, and like Barr Lake and other agricultural
17 reservoirs up and down the front range, over the years these
18 reservoirs have become major recreational assets. That was
19 not part of the original plan, but that' s just the way things
20 have evolved. And Milton Reservoir is no different. It
21 provides excellent wildlife habitat. It does have a fishery.
22 And it provides the opportunity for boating.
23 And the State Water Quality Control Commission has
24 established water quality standards for each of those uses
25 and has designated Milton Reservoir for each of those uses.
84
1 So it' s recognized as a recreational asset, both by the owner
2 of the reservoir, Fryco, through its agreements with this
3 particular Metropolitan District, but also by the State of
4 Colorado and the Health Department and the State Water
5 Quality Control Commission. And it is suitable; the water
6 quality is suitable for each of those uses.
7 I think there' s one slight complication in that the
8 State Water Quality Control Commission also designated this
9 reservoir as suitable for swimming, and they've established
10 standards for swimming. Now, when the State Water Quality
11 Control Commission does that, it does it prospectively. It
12 does not. meet water quality standards for swimming today, but
13 in effect, the State has set forward a planning process and
14 anticipates that someday down the road it will, in fact, also
15 be able to meet water quality standards that would allow
16 swimming.
17 So what we have is a recreational asset right now
18 that does provide wildlife habitat, does provide for fishing,
19 does provide for boating, but we 're not quite there yet for
20 swimming. And so the covenants that have been adopted for
21 this development proposal and the restrictions on the use of
22 the reservoir recognize the true value of the asset as it
23 exists today, as a wildlife preserve, as something that can
24 be boated upon, and as something that can be used as a
25 fishery.
85
1 So in that regard, it' s very valuable. It ' s a very
2 valuable asset for the community, and we anticipate that it
3 will remain as a valuable asset into the foreseeable future,
4 and perhaps improve over time as statewide water quality
5 plans are implemented.
6 And with that, I ' ll respond to any questions you
7 might have.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. McGregor.
9 Any questions? Commissioner Geile?
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, the only question I had,
11 in order for Milton Reservoir to get up to the standard where
12 someone could actually swim in it, according to the rules and
13 regulations that you mentioned, would there have to be a
14 redesignation of the rivers involved?
15 MR. MCGREGOR: Not a redesignation of the rivers.
16 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I 'm talking about, in other
17 words, reclassify them as recreational use, or something like
18 that, to be able to cut down on the nitrates and the other
19 things that are coming through the river?
20 MR. MCGREGOR: No, the rivers are already
21 classified, and the reservoir is already classified. It does
22 not require reclassification. It does require an upgrade in
23 water quality management plans and in waste water treatment
24 technologies by various interests that do discharge into the
25 South Platte River.
86
1 So the designation is there. The commitment is on
2 the part of -- is already there on the part of the State to
3 move toward a swimmable water. It doesn 't require new action
4 by the Water Quality Control Commission.
5 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? Commissioner
7 Masden?
8 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Thank you.
9 In light of the drought we've had the last couple
10 of years, and with prayers being answered this spring
11 basically, it didn't look like nothing was going to get any
12 water at all . That whole Fryco system basically wasn 't going
13 to get any water. Milton would have basically been dry.
14 What is your plan? I mean, here you ' re offering this amenity
15 to all these people, and you've got a dry lake.
16 MR. MCGREGOR: Well, you know, we 're all suffering
17 together. We have these droughts every 20 years. This was
18 what -- depending upon who you talk to, it was anywhere from
19 100 to 200 to a 500-year drought. So you 're going to have
20 extreme conditions every once in awhile. It ' s not the norm,
21 and that' s just a fact of life. The recreational uses, the
22 boating will be more limited. That's just a fact of life.
23 You can't have it perfect every year.
24 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: On a lot of the plats --
25 well, basically all your plats -- I 've lived in the Hudson
87
1 area and around there pretty much all my life, it' s always
2 been called Milton Reservoir. On your plats and all your
3 drawings and everything, you have Pelican Lake. What is the
4 change there?
5 MR. MCGREGOR: Well, I think that' s to your average
6 person, Milton Reservoir doesn't have much meaning. I think
7 Pelican Lake, probably it communicates the waterfowl, the
8 recreational asset represented by the waterfowl and the
9 wildlife in the area.
10 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: So is that an official name
11 change or just arbitrary?
12 MR. MCGREGOR: I don't know. I know that' s what
13 it' s commonly referred to, but --
14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It' s a marketing name.
15 MR. MCGREGOR: -- it' s a marketing name.
16 MR. MCGREGOR: Okay. All right. Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
18 (No response. )
19 THE CHAIRMAN: For me, Mr. McGregor, I have a
20 question. Just help me understand when you say that the lake
21 and the waters are already -- I guess -- I can 't remember the
22 word "permitted, " or whatever, but are classified as has that
23 ability, but there would have to be changes occur. Are those
24 changes that have to occur upstream of this development, or
25 are they changes that would be incurred by the development
88
1 itself in order to change the water, whatever, as it was
2 received into the reservoir?
3 MR. MCGREGOR: It 's upstream of this development.
4 Let me explain that a little bit in that when the State
5 adopts a standard for a water body, the Water Quality Control
6 Commission is the body that's responsible for that. One of
7 the findings they have to make is that it is either currently
8 suitable for that use, or that use is, in fact, attainable.
9 In other words, they're thinking forward as we upgrade our
10 different technologies and improve on water quality, and, in
11 fact, one of these days, this reservoir will also be able to
12 meet the swimming water quality standards. They made that
13 finding based on their knowledge of what' s in the watershed.
14 And, you know, this reservoir is filled by the South Platte
15 River, so its quality is controlled by the South Platte
16 River.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
18 Any other questions?
19 (No response. )
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 MR. CLINGER: Now we 're going to, with your
22 permission, Mr. Chairman, move on to oil and gas.
23 This map on my right is a map that antedates the --
24 all the lines that are out there, the existing wells, the
25 batteries, and in yellow, these are use areas that have been
89
1 designated for production facilities with the oil and gas
2 companies.
3 The circles represent an area which is a minimum
4 setback from any house. So the typical oil and gas well on
5 this will have a 150-foot setback, a 300-foot diameter
6 circle, if you will, and that has been agreed to with the oil
7 and gas companies. This 300-foot circle in green also meets
8 the requirements of your County regulations with respect to
9 setbacks for oil and gas wells. The batteries will have a
10 200-foot radius, or a 400-foot circle, and those are also
11 antedated on this plan.
12 As I said earlier, these areas in yellow are the
13 use areas for the operational facilities over and above the
14 150-foot and 200-foot setbacks for the oil and gas
15 operations.
16 Now, what I did with my planning before we came to
17 this hearing back a couple months prior to, and these changes
18 have been going on for weeks, is I use light tables, and I
19 take the topo and this detailed map, which has surveyed all
20 these facilities, and I lay it under my mylar of my land
21 plan. And then by looking through the light table, I 'm able
22 to see where all of these facilities occur.
23 So in my plan, which has been presented to you
24 today, it respects all these facilities and takes those into
25 account.
90
1 There are a few lots where gas lines go through a
2 lot area, and on those lots, that 's where we have those
3 building envelopes -- you asked me about the yellow areas.
4 And the homes will have a minimum 75-foot building setback
5 from any flow lines that cross the lots.
6 We have provided six acres where these production
7 facilities are grouped to accommodate the oil and gas
8 operations. So there' s totally, approximately about 350
9 acres in addition to the setback circles that will
10 accommodate oil and gas operations, and those will occur in
11 those open space areas.
12 Very briefly, our attorney, Chuck Carpenter, would
13 like to make a few remarks with regards to the oil and gas
14 agreement.
15 Do you have any questions on this particular map
16 and all the surveys that we did?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we do. Commissioner Jerke?
18 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 Is it certainly safe to say, then, nearly every
20 large green spot up there, most of them anyway, would have a
21 well or a tank battery?
22 MR. CLINGER: Well, there 's over 1, 000 acres of
23 open space, and 350 would be encumbered by these facilities,
24 so one-third of it would be, roughly, but two-thirds of it
25 would not be encumbered by the oil and gas facilities.
91
1 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Masden?
3 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Yes, and to further on that,
4 are those existing facilities?
5 MR. CLINGER: Those are existing and future wells
6 that we 've agreed to in this agreement. So they cover wells
7 that are there now and ones that we've agreed to in the
8 future that could be drilled. That, then, puts to rest all
9 the gas wells that could be drilled on this site.
10 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Now, if you're talking about
11 the wells, what about the flow lines and the gas lines
12 themselves? Do you have easements?
13 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
14 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: And restrictions on those
15 easements?
16 MR. CLINGER: Yes, the easements on the plat,
17 because they've all been surveyed, and we have a 75-foot
18 setback to any home from those lines.
19 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Is that a flow line or
20 the gas line?
21 MR. CLINGER: Those are flow lines that cross
22 individual lots. Now, there are some main lines, and
23 basically the main transmission lines go north and south
24 through the project. And if you look at the plan, you can
25 kind of see this area where those main transmission lines
92
1 occur.
2 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. And you have a
3 75-foot setback off of that gas gathering line?
4 MR. CLINGER: I think I need help on that one from
5 Jr. J.L. Walter, our engineer, who did all these surveys.
6 I 'd have to ask him. 75-foot is from the flow lines across
7 lots, but I 'm not sure about the main line.
8 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Is that 75-foot center?
9 MR. CLINGER: Could I just take a second and ask
10 him?
11 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Sure.
12 MR. CLINGER: Yes, so that is the (inaudible) .
13 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: 75-foot center?
14 MR. CLINGER: Setback from the line.
15 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. On each side?
16 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
17 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. And that 's from
18 the main gathering line, also?
19 MR. CLINGER: Yes, as well.
20 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Thank you.
21 MR. CLINGER: The main lines are all grouped
22 together. They're paralleling in there. So that's maybe a
23 couple hundred feet wide. Then there 's 75 feet and 75.
24 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Thank you.
25 MR. CLINGER: Any other questions of me?
93
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Geile?
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, thank you.
3 If you take a look at all of the open space and the
4 way this is kind of, as you say, overlayed onto this --
- 5 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
6 COMMISSIONER GEILE: -- and this is the open space
7 for the equestrian and the people walking around and all of
8 that, to service these tank batteries, to service this
9 equipment is going to require vehicles coming to those sites.
10 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
11 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Are they going to be using the
12 open space to do that?
13 MR. CLINGER: They're going to be using our roads
14 to get there, once the roads are constructed, and then there
15 will be service roads from our roads into those wells on the
16 open space.
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I guess what I 'm after is you
18 have pedestrians and you have horses. Is there going to be a
19 conflict?
20 MR. CLINGER: The trails, all the trails that are
21 shown there, can you see those little dash lines? Those --
22 can you see those are on there? That' s pretty small. All
23 the trails have been worked out with the gas company to go
24 around the batteries and the wells so as not to conflict with
25 their operation.
94
1 So there could be -- let 's say you're out there
2 riding a horse, and as you ride by a gas battery, there could
3 be a day when someone comes in to service the well, but I
4 don't think that would occur very often. I mean, it ' s a 5
5 percent factor in my mind. It' s very rare that they would
6 encounter one on there.
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, I think that' s where I 'm
8 heading with this.
9 MR. CLINGER: Yeah.
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Because number one, you 've
11 answered the question that you've figured out a way to keep
12 -- to keep there from being a conflict between pedestrians
13 and animals.
14 MR. CLINGER: Yes, and we thoroughly worked that
15 out with the oil and gas companies.
16 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But I think we 've all
17 established that this is pretty pristine land. I mean, it ' s
18 pretty delicate land.
19 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And is there a provision in
21 the Metropolitan District or is there a provision in the
22 Homeowners Association to maintain those roads, or have you
23 got an agreement with the oil companies to maintain those
24 roads so they don't become a little dust area, or adding to a
25 dust situation in the area?
95
1 MR. CLINGER: I would have to ask Mr. Walter again.
2 Maybe, perhaps --
3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Chuck Carpenter.
4 MR. CLINGER: Chuck Carpenter, he' s our next
5 speaker. He could answer that. Okay, sir?
6 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. Thank you.
7 MR. CLINGER: Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a question, I guess. On
9 these batteries, are there going to be trucks having to go in
10 there to fill the trucks to leave, so there ' s going to be
11 constant traffic going up to those batteries to fill the
12 trucks when they're leaving, or is there a pipeline system,
13 or whatever, that is going to drain those batteries to be
14 able to take them off the premises?
_ 15 MR. CLINGER: I ' ll again defer to Mr. Carpenter.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Very well. Thank you. Any other
17 questions for Mr. Clinger at this time?
18 (No response. )
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
20 MR. CARPENTER: Hello, Commissioners. I 'm Chuck
21 Carpenter. I 'm an oil and gas attorney from Denver, 1775
22 Sherman Street, Suite 2550, for the record, Denver, Colorado
23 80203 .
24 First of all, I want to apologize for the length of
25 time that it's taken to get this agreement, but I can assure
96
1 you that through the process, we 've gone through and we've
2 looked at each and every section, each and every quarter
3 section, each and every well, each and every pipeline, trying
4 to go through and resolve all these type of difficult issues.
5 First of all, just to address your question about
6 access, the agreement basically provides that when an area is
7 phased in for development and the subdivision roads are
8 completed, the existing access roads will no longer be used,
9 and the equipment and the companies coming in will be using
10 the subdivision roads, so we wouldn't expect there would be a
11 conflict with people going along the trails and the open
12 space. If you look on the maps, these roads come in, and
13 there are drawn into these, and there are larger scale maps
14 as well that make it a little bit more visible, that show
15 where you're going to access into each of these areas. And
16 that 's some of the things that we had to look at on a site
17 specific basis is, you know, should that area be here, or
18 should it be over here, or how are we going to access this?
19 And then second of all, to address your question
20 about the draining of the batteries, at this point in time
21 I 'm not aware that there are any pipelines planned to move
22 liquids off, and so those would be moved off by truck. It
23 will not be a situation where the truck goes out to the well
24 each day, and, you know, like the milkman, drops off -- you
25 know, cleans out the tank each day. In other words, they
97
1 wait for the tanks to fill up, and once a month, or in some
2 instances twice a month, or maybe not for three or four
3 months, there will be trucks coming out to take the product
4 away from the property.
5 A couple of other things, and then I ' ll leave it
6 open.
— 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Excuse me. Commissioner Masden?
8 MR. CARPENTER: That' s fine.
9 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Yeah, I beg to differ with
— 10 you on that because there' s sites that haven't been drilled
11 yet, and they're doing a lot of refracs in the area. If they
12 come in and do a refrac, there's going to be a lot of trucks
13 in and out of there on one well . And when they haul in, you
14 know, six or eight or 10, 000 barrels of water just to do a
15 refrac, and then hauling all that water off, there' s going to
16 be trucks running on some of those 24 hours a day. And then
17 with the production that it makes after they refrac it, or a
18 new well, where you've got your water coming back and your
19 oil, you're going to have wells -- you're going to have some
20 wells that you're going to have a lot of trucks running in
21 and out of one well, one battery, a lot of trips in one day.
— 22 MR. CARPENTER: Okay. And I think we're talking
23 about two different things. I thought he was talking about
24 the routine maintenance part of emptying the tanks.
25 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Indeed, he probably is, but
98
1 looking at the scenario because there looks like there ' s a
2 lot of sites there that are still undrilled. And with the
3 activity that's going on in Weld County, and I know out in
4 that area because I went out there, Commissioner Vaad and I
5 did with one of the companies, that they were just showing us
6 how they were doing a refrac on a well, and that ' s where we
7 were at.
8 MR. CARPENTER: And I didn't intend to mean that
9 there will not be oil and gas activities out there. Now,
10 there are a number of wells that have been drilled. This
11 agreement is a future-looking agreement, and it does address
12 the drilling of new wells. And the attempt has been to, in
13 essence, you know, cluster them in the areas where the wells
14 are, leaving lots of open space area and lots of area for
15 development as well. The agreement will conform with Oil and
16 Gas Conservation Commission regulations in terms of
17 locations, and, frankly, that' s another thing that we had to
18 spend a lot of time with, and that was trying to assure these
19 companies that they would be able to adequately drain the
20 reserves out there as opposed to -- well, we weren't writing
21 this on a blank slate.
22 Back in the mid-'80s there were a whole series of
23 agreements reached with companies under the framework of the
24 regulations that existed at the time. Since that time, both
25 on a national and a local basis, there have been major
99
1 changes to the oil and gas business, the number of wells and
2 things like that. We've tried to accommodate all these.
3 What we 've tried to focus on is the health, safety and
4 welfare type of issues in assuring that we have adequate
5 setbacks from all of the facilities. We are requesting that
6 this agreement and this detailed map replace any other
7 conditions with respect to oil and gas. In other words, this
8 map is basically an exhibit to the agreement, and we would
9 also want to have it incorporated in as a detailed plan
10 that 's binding on the lands that give us a good picture of
11 where the development is going to be, it provides enough area
12 for that development to occur. And like I say, it' s been a
13 process of trying to get very site specific and resolve their
14 concerns about developing their resource, while maintaining
15 the integrity of the development and all of the commitments
16 that have been made to this Commission and others.
17 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: One further question. You're
18 talking about working with them. Was there any attempt to
19 try and cluster wells, to drill off of one pad say four
20 wells, and where the developer may pay for all the
21 directional drilling cost, something of that nature?
22 MR. CARPENTER: Well, first of all , we have to look
23 at the scope of this, and what we have done is we provided
24 sufficient area for that to occur. Now, the current policy
25 of the Oil and Gas Commission is to encourage companies to
100
1 drill as close to the existing wells as possible. Also, from
2 an economic standpoint, in terms of doing multiple down hole
3 completions, we fully expect that that is going to be the
4 norm. But the agreement itself does allow the drilling of
5 additional wells, but they would be confined to the areas
6 that are shown on the map. Am I answering your question?
7 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Yeah, confined to it.
8 MR. CARPENTER: There is no provision in the
9 agreement for funds to be paid for directional drilling and
10 things such as that, as perhaps you've seen. And really, I
11 think this is the type of thing that this Commission is going
12 to see a lot more of in the next 10 years. I mean, this is a
13 fairly new development since the Oil and Gas Commission
14 changed their regulations in 1998 to allow the drilling of
15 additional wells that simply was not on the horizon when
16 these original agreements were agreed to and the original
17 approvals were gone through.
18 Frankly, you know, economics itself is going to
19 dictate that. There's been a lot of consolidation, and it
20 actually is for the best. We even had one company get --
21 their interest get consolidated into the agreement as it
22 goes.
23 And that also reminds me, I should also speak to
24 one other issue, and that is we do have one company in
25 (inaudible) , who was not a party to this agreement, who we
101
1 had invited into the negotiations, but didn't own any
2 leasehold interest in the lands that we were concerned with.
3 We do have our existing agreements with them. We have
4 negotiated on two wells -- negotiated, it was not a difficult
5 negotiation -- surface agreements that addressed their
6 interest. But other than that, we have, you know, through
7 this whole 1, 000-acre development, addressed the concerns of
8 these companies.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Geile?
10 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, you probably think we
11 just lay awake all night coming up with questions to ask.
12 MR. CARPENTER: Actually, it makes it a lot easier,
13 rather than just trying to anticipate what your concerns are.
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: How many wells are there on
15 this map?
16 MR. CARPENTER: I would say approximately 80 .
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: There 's 80 wells.
18 MR. CARPENTER: You know, I haven 't tried to count
19 them.
20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And how many of them -- how
21 many of them have -- so are there 80 active wells or 80 spots
22 where wells could be drilled? The point I 'm getting to is,
23 how many wells are there, and then how many wells are in the
24 agreement that you've made with the oil company that could be
25 drilled in the future?
- 102
1 MR. CARPENTER: Well, we haven't made agreement as
2 to how many wells could be drilled. We 've made agreement as
3 to where the wells could be drilled. Under the current
4 regulations of the Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, which
_ 5 governs the location of wells, there is no specific limit, as
6 there used to be, on the number of wells that can be drilled.
7 What they do is they identify areas within each quarter
8 section where wells can be drilled.
9 What we have done is tried to conform with that as
10 well, and I 'm sure the companies would tell me, somewhat
11 restrict that window where they can drill those wells. In
— 12 other words, we have predictability at this point not as to
13 how many wells will be out there, but as to where those wells
14 will be located.
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But where I 'm heading with
16 this, that every time the oil company drills a well, it does
— 17 inconvenience the people who are living there. And if houses
18 start to develop, and they come in and they start drilling
19 wells, things like noise -- we do have a certain limitation,
20 Counsel, what is it 70 decibels?
21 MR. MORRISON: The State has provided that
— 22 industrial limits apply to oil and gas drilling.
23 COMMISSIONER GEILE: So, which means 70 decibels?
—
24 MR. MORRISON: Yeah.
25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. But the point of it is,
103
1 when you start -- and you' ll have to help me with this,
2 Commissioner, but when you start cranking up those engines on
3 those derricks, they probably will exceed 70 decibels, and
4 even 70 decibels is loud. So there 's going to be some noise
5 conflicts in the area.
6 And I know that you -- the question was, there 's no
7 way you could mitigate that probably with this kind of an
8 agreement, but I 'm just saying that it looks to me like we 're
9 going to have some train wrecks down the road with the
10 conflict between the oil companies coming in and drilling,
11 and the inconvenience and the other things that that will
12 present to the people living in the area.
13 MR. CARPENTER: Well, first of all, I have to tell
14 you that there 's no way that we can eliminate all the
15 inconvenience. Now, there are also Oil and Gas Conservation
16 Commission regulations on noise limits. What we have done --
- 17 and the companies, of course, are required to comply with
18 that. Now, we have not gone in there and tried to impose,
19 and, indeed, could not impose more restrictive conditions
20 upon the companies than the State regulators have imposed on
21 them.
22 Now, there will be refracs, there will be new wells
23 drilled. But by and large, I think in terms of numbers, that
24 unless we start seeing gas prices triple again as they have
25 in the last two, three years, that it would be unlikely that
104
1 we would see more than a couple of additional wells a year.
2 There is going to be inconvenience; there' s no doubt about
3 that. But there are, you know, restrictions in place that
4 will govern those operations.
— 5 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, and I need to say that
6 perhaps train wreck might have been a little drastic, but
7 certainly there' s going to be conflicts which is probably
8 going to have to cause -- would have to cause us, as the
9 County, to mitigate some of those issues, and those could
— 10 become very difficult. It's just a point.
11 MR. CARPENTER: Well, and the difficulty is this:
12 Is that then you start trying to figure out where that very
13 unbright line is between what the jurisdiction of the
14 planning and zoning people of the County is versus what the
_ 15 jurisdiction of the Oil and Gas Commission is. And we have
16 tried -- we would -- you know, frankly, there are a number of
—
17 things that one, from the developer and the Metro District 's
18 perspective would like to impose. But there are limitations
19 on your ability to do that, and we think that we 've -- it' s
20 like any compromise. It' s not perfect on all purposes, but
21 we think we have gone through in considerable detail, and the
22 companies that have been involved in the process, they all
23 have their representatives here, and I 'm expecting them to
24 withdraw their objections. So at this point, we have no
25 objections from any of the gas companies, oil and gas
105
1 companies out there, with respect to this proposal.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions?
3 (No response. )
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 MR. CLINGER: Well, sir, moving right along.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Excuse me. Commissioner Masden?
7 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: I do have another question
8 regarding that, and I don't know if you could answer that or
9 not, and that' s regarding safety with oil and gas -- you
10 know, mainly the wells and the tank batteries themselves.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record show Mr. Carpenter is
12 answering the question.
13 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: What provisions have been
14 taken to work with the companies on safety issues because
15 here you're going to be putting them -- you know, tank
16 batteries and drilling wells or have existing facilities in a
17 more urban-type area. What type of features have you tried
18 to work out with the companies to mitigate any, I guess
19 problems with safety issues?
20 MR. CARPENTER: Well, first of all, and foremost,
21 as I 'm sure you're probably aware, the Oil and Gas
22 Conservation Commission has adopted very extensive rules
23 addressing safety and mitigation and things such as this.
24 And there is agreement to comply with those rules. There are
25 some specific obligations in terms of installing low-profile
106
1 tanks more feasible that are listed in Exhibit B to the
2 agreement. And to the extent that -- you know, attempting to
3 mitigate visual impact, removal of debris and noxious weeds.
4 But one of the positive developments down at the
5 Oil and Gas Conservation Commission is that they have very,
6 very extensive regulations at this point that do address
7 that. In short of taking those and writing them all into
8 this agreement, what we've done instead is required that they
9 comply with us.
10 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. So nothing over and
11 above the State regulations?
12 MR. CARPENTER: Substantially that ' s correct.
13 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 MR. CLINGER: The next item I 'd like to cover, and
16 we are getting near the end, Mr. Commissioners, is the
17 phasing plan. What we've done is to establish a phasing plan
18 that will go along with this planned unit development, if you
19 approve it today. And this phasing plan envisions 14
20 separate phases, which are color-coded. The commitment here
21 is to provide at least one amenity per each phase, and there
22 is a list of amenities that has been filed with the County,
23 and these amenities cover such items as swimming pool, tennis
24 courts, (inaudible) improvements, picnic areas, RV storage
25 lot, clubhouse, hay and equipment storage, stables, outdoor
107
1 arena, (inaudible) area, cross-country course, and indoor
2 arena with office and riding school.
3 So as the pace of the development occurs, and
4 because we don't know -- and the market fluctuates. Right
5 now, the market in Colorado, as you know -- I think
6 Commissioner Geile is a realtor -- the market here, because
7 we've lost a lot of jobs in the front range, is slow. But
8 it' s anticipated to pick up. The point is, the market
9 fluctuates up and down. And so these phases have been broken
10 into roughly 30-unit phases, and the commitment here is to
11 provide one amenity as each phase progresses.
12 Are there any questions on the phasing plan?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: A question comes to my mind in
14 regards to the oil development. Are they going to be in
15 conjunction or coordinated with these phases?
16 MR. CLINGER: No, the oil and gas people can drill
17 wherever they want.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: At any time?
19 MR. CLINGER: At any time.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
21 MR. CLINGER: And I personally anticipate that most
22 of these oil and gas wells will be drilled before development
23 occurs out there. Probably these 400 lots will be based over
24 quite a number of years. The whole item here -- the main
25 item I like to stress as a planner is that we 're trying to
108
1 come up with a really well thought out overall plan so that
2 we can plan for the future on this property, and that ' s why
3 we're here today. We still have lost the sell in Phase 1,
4 but we're looking at the long-term so that we can really plan
5 and provide in the future for the people who live there and
6 the people who live there in the future, these amenities, et
7 cetera, with a well thought out master plan in conjunction
8 with all the mitigation that we 've shared with you today.
9 Basically, the biggest thing is oil and gas facilities. And
10 I think that this team personally has done a (inaudible) job
11 in getting this agreement. It took eight months and hundreds
12 of thousands of dollars to get there, but I think developer
13 has really acted in good faith. And I must also say that the
14 oil companies have acted in good faith, and they have reached
15 an agreement to date.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Masden?
17 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: In conjunction with what
18 you're talking about phases, do you have a specific amenity
19 tied to each phase?
20 MR. CLINGER: No, but one amenity will be built at
21 a minimum per phase.
22 What we're looking at here is there ' s no sense of
23 building a community stable if there' s only two horses out
24 there. It would go unused. So the amenities are going to be
25 phased in based on the real acute need at the time.
109
1 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Well, that' s why I 'm
2 wondering, how are you doing this because you're specifying
3 right there what I was asking, and how you're going to do it,
4 and --
5 MR. CLINGER: Well, see, I think I understand what
6 you're asking me. There are 14 phases, and there are 14
7 amenities. And we have a list of them we 've registered with
8 the County. At least one amenity will be built in each
9 phase. We just don't know -- for instance, we're seeing
10 right now that there' s kind of a limited interest in the
11 horses, but maybe two years from now a lot more horse people
12 will be buying homes. So that ' s why we need that
13 flexibility. And I think it's very logical. But it does
14 commit the developer to build these 14 amenities. Before
15 this project is built out, they will all be in, and that' s
16 the key.
17 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: And I know you were talking
18 about time I guess, also.
19 MR. CLINGER: Yeah, we don't know how long it will
20 take to finish this, that's correct.
21 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Thank you.
22 MR. CLINGER: Yes, sir.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
24 (No response. )
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Please continue.
110
1 MR. CLINGER: Okay. With respect to traffic.
2 Traffic impacts have been reduced by approximately 1, 500
3 daily trips from the previous plan. So with less lots, of
4 course, there are less trips.
5 The traffic study by Matt Delich & Associates
6 (phonetic) concludes that all intersections will operate at
7 acceptable levels at build-out. And I think your Director of
8 Public Works indicated that there were agreements in place
9 with respect to building these intersections at the County
10 Roads and making improvements at these intersections, and
11 that has been agreed upon.
12 Let me -- so through this course of all this work,
13 we now have received approvals from the School District. We
14 have dedicated that site to the District. We have dedicated
15 the fire station site. We have a full agreement now executed
16 with the Weld County Sheriff 's Office. In fact, he uses that
17 little building out there for kind of his regional office out
18 there for dispatches, et cetera. We have reached a full
19 agreement with the U. S. Bureau of Reclamation with respect to
20 the environmental zones, for the bird sanctuaries, buffers
21 and setbacks. We have reached full agreement with Quest and
22 X-Cel Energy, and they have stated that they have the
23 capacity to serve this property, and we have full executed
24 agreements with the Central Weld Water District.
25 We recognize and know that we will have at least
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1 one disgruntled couple who will testify against this project
2 today. They believe they should have certain amenities at
3 this stage of the development, but as indicated to you
4 earlier, my client has gone on record as stating that they
5 will provide at least one amenity per phase, as the market
6 allows.
7 On the other hand, we have residents here who will
8 testify in favor of the development and business owners in
9 Platteville who are for the project. We provided Mr.
10 Morrison with a list of 33 homeowners are out there who are
11 in support of this Filing 2 master plan and the 18 business
12 owners in Platteville who want to see this development. We
13 have worked very hard to achieve an agreement with the oil
14 and gas companies, and we're really proud that we can stand
15 here today with that agreement in place.
16 We have revised this plan to accommodate them, and
17 we have the same number of lots that was approved by the
18 Planning Commission about eight months ago, and virtually the
19 same amount of open space that was approved by the Planning
20 Commission.
21 Over 43 percent of this site is an open space. All
_ 22 the lots are in excess of two-and-a-half acres. We have
23 established environmental protection zones along the
- 24 reservoir and the canal, and we have developed complete and
25 thorough covenants with detailed lot and building
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1 restrictions. We have provided for a state-of-the-art septic
2 systems and professional monitoring and maintenance by the
3 District. We have created a sensitive, clustered development
4 that compliments this open prairie environment. We have
5 restricted outdoor watering on the lots and created landscape
6 plans that features zeroscape plants and community structures
7 that are based on this national park architecture.
8 I think that as you see this development go on in
9 the future, you're going to be very proud to see the quality
10 of the community buildings all utilizing this beautiful
11 parkitectural theme.
12 The overall density of Pelican Lake, if you really
13 look at the density overall, is one home per approximately
14 six acres -- that' s what you're looking at -- with almost 50
15 percent of the site in common open space that will be
16 maintained by the District.
17 When you consider that lot line fencing is
18 prohibited and that irrigated yards cannot exceed 5 percent
19 on any lot, that the fence paddock areas cannot exceed 5
20 percent of the lot, including the barn, you're looking at a
21 planned development where over 90 percent -- 90 percent of
_ 22 this site will remain open. We 're only using 10 percent of
23 this property. To me, that is a very good conservation plan
24 for this type of land.
25 Our last speaker is Jackie Johnson. I want to
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1 thank you personally very much. And, Mr. Chairman, I would
2 like time, of course, for rebuttal.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Absolutely. That' s part of our
4 process. But some questions first. Commissioner Vaad?
5 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Can you tell me who can speak
6 to the domestic water system?
7 MR. CLINGER: Mr. Walter is here, and he can speak
8 to that. Would you like to hear his discussion?
9 COMMISSIONER VAAD: I 'd like to have a question,
10 yeah.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: If you could, sir, please start with
12 your name and address, and welcome. Thank you.
13 MR. WALTER: J.L. Walter with J.L. Walter
14 Consulting, 2318 Osage Court, Loveland 80538 .
15 Do you have a question?
16 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yes, Mr. Walter. My question
17 of the witness before lunch about the quality of the water
18 wasn't just a gratuitous question, and I notice on the
19 handout of the three million gallon tank, and that was put in
20 for the purpose of 800 lots.
21 MR. WALTER: That 's correct.
22 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And I know something about
23 water needs to be circulated or it becomes unpleasant.
24 MR. WALTER: That's correct.
25 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And so are all of these lines
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1 looped, and who is responsible for water quality on the
2 outflow of that tank from there into the system?
3 MR. WALTER: Central Weld County Water District
4 actually is the owner of the water system. They're actually
5 the designer of the water system. They do typically try to
6 loop their lines. In fact, they do loop their lines. If you
7 look at the plan that has been submitted, you' ll see that
8 other than at the -- into a cul-de-sac, which is typically a
9 reduction in size of pipe, the pipes that you ' ll see on there
10 are all looped.
11 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. And then we 're talking
12 about a much smaller build-out than 800 right now anyway.
13 And so does that mean that the tank -- well, I guess maybe
14 these are questions more appropriate for Central Weld, but is
15 it your estimate the tank won't be used to full capacity,
16 then?
17 MR. WALTER: Actually, the tank, even though it was
18 placed there for the use of this development and paid for in
19 a good part by this development, it is still an integral part
20 of the District's overall system. It serves actually a good
21 part of the District' s eastern facilities, being the town of
22 Kersey and a number of others. So it is not a stale tank and
23 never will be. It is used.
24 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Okay. Thank you.
25 MR. WALTER: You bet.
115
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Are there any more
2 questions for Mr. Walter? Thank you. Commissioner Jerke?
3 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Just for the record, then the
4 main line for Central, then, does this run into the tank?
5 MR. WALTER: That is correct.
6 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And then other lines come out
7 that will always be in use then every day?
8 MR. WALTER: That is correct. There is a 14-inch
9 line that runs into the tank, and currently there 's a 12-inch
10 line that goes out of the tank. Then there ' s a pump station
11 that was built and paid for, again, by this development that
12 will provide any higher flows required, for instance, in a
13 fire situation, but that tank is circulated daily.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Please continue.
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Just a question, then, for Mr.
16 Clinger.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Thank you, Mr. Walter.
18 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Could I --
- 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Or, Commissioner Masden has a
20 question for you, Mr. Walter, I 'm sorry.
21 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Mr. Walter, the system that
22 Central I guess owns for a residence, is it just a regular
23 residential five-eighths or three-quarter tank?
24 MR. WALTER: That is correct.
25 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: What do they charge for
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1 those?
2 MR. WALTER: Well, I 'm not sure I can tell you
3 exactly, but the District's flat fees are in the $17 , 000
4 range, but I believe that because this development provides
5 that well water, when you take off the well water portion of
6 it, which is usually $10, 500. So I 'm talking just in general
— 7 numbers here, but that' s about where it' s at.
8 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Clinger, there was
10 another question for you. Commissioner Jerke had a question.
11 Let the record reflect Mr. Clinger is at the podium.
12 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you. When you state
13 that there are 33 homeowners who are in favor of this, when I
14 looked at that piece of evidence, what I came across was
15 basically 33 pieces of paper. Now, does that represent 33
16 separate homes or 33 individuals who happen to be usually
— 17 husbands and wives that --
18 MR. CLINGER: I think it' s 33 residents. It could
— 19 be two in each house, but it's 33 people who live out there.
20 That' s my understanding.
21 COMMISSIONER JERKE: So the number of homes is more
22 like 17 or so?
23 MR. CLINGER: Let me clarify that.
24 (Pause. )
25 MR. CLINGER: There are 36 homes occupied, but 33
117
1 people signed it. So it doesn't mean there' s 33 homes
2 represented on that.
3 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Do we know how many homes
4 would have been represented? A quick count, the way I was
5 doing it, it looked like maybe 17 or 18 at the most, but --
6 MR. CLINGER: That' s about right, yes, sir.
7 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Vaad had a
9 question for you, I 'm sorry.
10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr. Clinger, Mr. Oster brought
11 up some issues about the riding trail, and I notice on your
12 page 11 in the yellow page, it says, "The trail system" --
13 let's see, No. 8 . "Should the trail system inspector and the
14 Metropolitan District Board determine that erosion control is
15 necessary in some areas, contract services will be retained
16 to remedy the specific needs. "
17 I equate that to what Dan was talking about, that
18 because horses ride over the trail, in that kind of soil it
19 would just leave footprints.
20 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
21 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Footprints will become a rut.
22 MR. CLINGER: Yes.
23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: What do you foresee being done
24 about that?
25 MR. CLINGER: I 've been a horseman all my life, and
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1 the worst thing you can do in a project like this -- if
2 you've ever been down to Parker and seen those farms with all
3 those white farms, and you ride -- it' s like riding in a
4 horizontal corral. This is more of a natural experience.
5 And we have restricted the number of horse lots to 30
6 percent. Of that number, in my opinion, probably only half
7 of that will actually have horses here. With 14 miles of
8 trails 00 this is such a low density use for equestrian
9 trails. I just can 't see how this is going to become an
10 erosion problem. And the main area out here for horses is
11 this area where we 're going to have the (inaudible)
12 facilities, the stable. That is the area that 's going to
13 come into play with more intensive equestrian use, and that
14 is not part of this Filing 2 . That' s already been approved
15 with No. 1.
16 So I just don't see these trails being eroded
17 personally, sir. I don't see enough use. It' s just low
18 intensity.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions for Mr. Clinger?
20 And maybe this has already been stated, but who is
21 going to maintain the open space, or is it going to be
22 maintained, or is it going to be natural?
23 MR. CLINGER: That' s maintained by the District.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: So that means mowed and weed-
25 sprayed?
119
1 MR. CLINGER: Owned and maintained.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
3 MR. CLINGER: Yes, we control all maintenance by
4 the District.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Commissioner Geile.
6 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Then I need to ask, in pulling
7 back up your covenant, what are the functions of the
8 covenants then? Is it just architecture review and things
9 like that?
10 MR. CLINGER: No, the covenants also cover all
11 those items I was talking about on the uses of each lot. Do
12 you remember that --
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I do, but there was also a fee
14 that was paid by each property owner, and I assume that fee
15 was part of which, anyway, would go to maintain the open
16 space, but you're saying it does not.
17 MR. CLINGER: Pardon me?
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: It does not go to the open
19 space. So the covenants -- the Homeowners Association is not
20 responsible in any way for the open space; it ' s all the
21 Metropolitan District?
22 MR. CLINGER: That' s correct.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Jerke?
24 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
25 Mr. Clinger, I 'm going to ask a question, and I 'm
120
1 trying to not ask it in an embarrassing way. I embarrass my
2 colleagues now and then, and it's embarrassing for me, then.
3 MR. CLINGER: I 'm not 60 years old. I 'm not 60.
4 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. And I 'm going to ask
5 this question and try to term it in a way, but you brought it
6 up. You used a term to describe the project, I think
7 describing it in national park terms. And my question is
8 simple. Which national park would most closely resemble this
9 at build-out?
10 MR. CLINGER: Well, I didn't -- I 'm sorry if I --
11 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And I hate to ask that
12 question. It sounds embarrassing, but there ' s a lot of
13 national parks.
14 MR. CLINGER: Well, I didn't mean --
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Which one would it look like
16 kind of?
17 MR. CLINGER: I didn't mean to say it would
18 reminiscent of any particular national park. The buildings
19 here are going to be utilizing parkitecture, which is a term
20 that I have coined that we used in Bachelor Gulch. It
21 creates buildings are reminiscent of the buildings that are
22 utilized in many of the national parks. And these buildings
23 will have the green roofs, the log structures, but, no, sir,
24 this is not going to be a national park. I didn 't mean to
25 infer that in any way. That the theme of these common
121
1 buildings, the stables, the pool house, these mailbox
2 buildings, will all carry a theme, and I 'm appreciate that
3 clarification.
4 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you.
— 5 MR. CLINGER: Okay.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions for
— 7 Mr. Clinger?
8 (No response. )
9 MR. CLINGER: I want to thank you very much.
— 10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 MR. CLINGER: Ms. Johnson?
12 MS. JOHNSON: Good afternoon. My name is
13 Jacqueline, 822 7th Street, Suite 760, Greeley, Colorado. I
14 have served as counsel for the applicant through this
15 process, and as you all are all aware, I am the historical
16 link -- gosh, I hate that term -- maybe it's Dinosaur
— 17 National Park. I am the historical link I guess to the
18 project that is before you today. And so I want to make a
19 few comments about that from my perspective of having been on
20 the Board of County Commissioners when this planned unit
21 development and the first filing were approved sometime back.
22 You all make decisions every day, as did I, as a
23 County Commissioner, and it may be that a future Board will
— 24 not agree with what decision you made. But there are some
25 good faith issues I think involved for any County
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1 Commissioner or any Board of County Commissioners with
2 respect to what 's gone before. And I think I want you to --
3 I 'm asking you to think about that today as you make your
4 decision.
5 Our Board held full and complete hearings, and we
6 made a good faith decision that this was a unique and
7 appropriate and a project that was going to be good for Weld
8 County. We also relied on the good faith of the developers
9 to do the things that they said they would do to meet the
10 requirements of the County in proposing and completing a
11 development of this size.
12 The developers, likewise, relied on the good faith
13 of that Board of County Commissioners, as they are relying on
14 your good faith, in making decisions about how they would
15 proceed with this development. And assumptions were made,
16 rightly or wrongly, that once the change of zone was approved
17 and once a filing was approved, that the scale of things
18 required them to be able to rely in the future of having
19 approval further down the road. And so as Chairman Long
20 indicated today, we're not here to revisit that original
21 decision, whether you agree with it or don ' t agree with it,
22 but rather to say what' s the good faith thing we need to do
23 to assure that the County is protected, that the citizens who
24 have purchased property there are protected, and that the
25 developer is protected as well for the consideration that
123
1 they have given in planning and completing this project.
2 I have observed, since my involvement post-
3 Commissioner days with this developer, that they have,
4 indeed, been true to their word, and that they have been
5 thoughtful about this development, and that they have engaged
6 in a very long and careful planning process.
7 When we came before you with the substantial change
8 hearing, I believe you saw a real sensitivity to the concerns
9 that you all had, and I believe those concerns have been
10 adequately addressed through the development standards and
11 the conditions of development that will come before you.
12 The good faith of the developer has also been
13 expressed by its dealings with the oil and gas interests, the
14 mineral interests in this area, in that they have spent over
15 eight months really working out an identification of where
16 those lines are, an identification of the needs so that there
17 can be some co-equal development there that ' s fair to all
18 people.
19 I also think there 's an interest that has been
20 expressed and is being expressed by the developers, and I
21 think you' ll hear from some of the citizens, if not all, of
22 their interest in delivering to these people what they
23 believe they were buying when they looked at a planned unit
24 development that was anticipated to be the kind of
25 development that's before you today.
124
1 And so I just urge you, please, to think about that
2 aspect and that historical aspect and the link between my day
3 and your day and the fairness of the decision that you make
4 with respect to this particular development, so that the
5 interests of the developer, the interests of the County, a
6 very important (inaudible) , the Health, Safety and Welfare
7 interest, and the interest of the residents are fulfilled in
8 the best way.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any questions for Jackie?
11 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, we have to at least ask
12 for a question.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: You bet. Commissioner Geile?
14 MS. JOHNSON: If it' s my age, I ain't saying.
15 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Jackie, one of the concerns I
16 have is if you take a look at the project which was initially
17 approved back in ' 89 or ' 86, you know, and since that period
18 of time, and granted, there 's been some developer issues I
19 assume, at least -- the only ones I 'm aware of since I 've
20 been on the Board of County Commissioners. But the fact of
21 it is there' s only about 36 homes that have been built on
22 this site since that period of time. And we're being asked
23 to move on to the second phase when the first phase isn ' t
24 even a fourth completed as far as being sold out and homes
25 constructed, much less amenities being in place that were
125
1 promised to the people who purchased the home or the people
— 2 who will be purchasing the homes.
3 And I 'm having -- in your time on the Commission,
4 when you approved it, you had the foresight of looking at
5 this and seeing this built out into the future with 750
6 homes, or whatever it is. But the fact of it is, that hasn 't
7 happened. Kind of help me what is different now.
8 MS. JOHNSON: Well, in part, and tell me if I 'm
9 wrong about the number of lots sold. I believe there are 57 ;
10 is that --
11 MR. CLINGER: There are 57 lots sold.
12 MS. JOHNSON: Fifty-seven lots sold.
—
13 MR. CLINGER: Ninety-five have been approved.
— 14 MS. JOHNSON: Of the first filing. So 57 lots -- I
15 think you were using a smaller number. I just want to
16 make --
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But that' s less than one a
18 year.
— 19 MS. JOHNSON: Pardon me?
20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: A couple -- three a year.
21 Three a year, I 'm sorry.
22 MS. JOHNSON: Okay. This project has been
23 uncertain with respect to the second filing since the year
— 24 2000, and I think that uncertainty has some effect on
25 everybody's view of the project.
126
1 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But even in view of that, in
2 the year 2000, when we heard this case, the same concern was
3 expressed, that, oh, since 1986 or 1989, there have only been
4 30 houses at that time, or 40 houses at that time sold, and
5 as far as houses out of the ground being occupied by
6 purchasers, I 'm not sure that ' s much different today. I
7 think there 's only about -- the point of it is, the thing is
8 never taken off in my view, and what is different today, as
9 far as this thing taking off? In other words, they can 't
_ 10 even finish the first filing, and we add another 300 and some
11 units. What is different today than it was --
- 12 MS. JOHNSON: I 'm not sure I can tell you that,
13 Commissioner Geile. I can say, based on my own observation
14 of development in the front range that things spring up
15 overnight, and I have seen them happen overnight. And I
16 can't say with any certainty, and I don't suppose any of you
17 can, will the fact that this has now been approved affect
18 what development occurs? I don 't know. I know that
19 development does occur, that it sometimes happens very
20 quickly. Sometimes things that are approved for development
21 sit a long time before they develop, and then, boom, there
22 they are. And you can go out in West Greeley, or you can go
23 out on 85 down by Denver, and all of a sudden there 's
24 something that may have been approved a long time that' s not
25 been there before.
— 127
1 The other thing I would say to you, too, though, is
—
2 that this plan, and granted it 's been delayed -- and I say in
3 part it 's been delayed because of the uncertainty that was
4 created when the second filing was denied in the year 2000.
5 But it was and has always has been planned as a slow
6 developing community, to be phased in over a very substantial
— 7 number of years, and that' s been conceived and perceived by
8 my Board at least, and I think to some extent this Board as a
9 positive thing, so that the effects of the growth are
10 accommodated as it occurs slowly, rather than it ballooning
11 all at once.
— 12 I can't answer your question as to whether or not
13 this will go or will not go. I think what your obligation
14 is, is to say if it goes, the fair thing -- the important
15 thing is that the County is protected and that the
16 requirements of the County are met, and I think you ' ll see
— 17 that there' s been every effort to do that in this
18 application.
—
19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Masden?
21 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Jackie, I guess I have a
— 22 couple questions. Yeah, you talked about the growth issue
23 and stuff like that. I guess the slow growth plan is working
24 out. It' s been what, 20 years? So --
25 MS. JOHNSON: Well, as you know, there have been
128
1 some other -- there have been other things with respect to
2 ownership and other things that I 'm not qualified to talk
3 about. But that's part of it.
4 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: One question I guess I have,
5 and I know this is probably -- is there a lawsuit going on
6 right now?
7 MS. JOHNSON: Not to my knowledge.
8 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay, because I heard that,
9 so --
10 MS. JOHNSON: I read in the paper that there was a
11 threat of a lawsuit. I know nothing about it. I have not
12 seen a lawsuit.
13 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions?
15 (No response. )
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
17 Staff?
18 MS. MIKA: Monica Mika. I just wanted to --
-
19 earlier this morning, Commissioner Geile asked me some
20 questions, and I have the answers to those questions if you 'd
21 like me to enter them in, or wait.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Let 's enter those in right after a
23 break.
24 MS. MIKA: All right.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: And after a break, we ' ll start with
129
1 Monica, and then we' ll start with the public hearing portion
2 of this.
3 So we will resume at 3 : 30.
4 (Whereupon, a break was taken. )
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Welcome. We ' ll reconvene.
6 A question was raised prior by Commissioner Geile,
7 I believe, that might not have been answered to the fullest
8 information that was available at the time, that the
9 applicant wish to come forward and give an accurate response
10 to that. And so we'd like -- I think it ' s important that' s
11 put on the record.
12 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Geile had asked about sales, and
13 I didn't do a very good job of answering. And Mr. Kent
14 Colburn, who has been in charge of sales, will explain to you
15 while there weren't more sales earlier.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. If you could, for the
17 record, please give your name and address. And then,
18 welcome. Thank you.
19 MR. COLBURN: Commissioners, my name is Kent
20 Colburn. I reside at 12628 North Woodland Trail, Parker,
21 Colorado 80138 . I 've been the marketing director on this
22 property since it started.
23 The sales that you were referring to, we started
24 sales to the public in June of 1999, so mid-year through
25 June. We didn't actually cut dirt on the roadways until
130
1 March of '99. We set a sales trailer out there in May of
2 ' 99, and I had started sales to builders to build spec homes
3 prior to starting the sales to the public.
4 Our first sale to the public I think for a lot, for
5 a presold home to be constructed, wasn't actually until 2000.
6 And between January of 2000 and September of 911, we sold 47
7 units. Since that time we sold 10.
8 The marketplace prior to 911, actually from January
9 of 2001 until September 10th of 2001, we sold 24 units. Our
10 target for that year was 33 homes. We were on target to meet
11 that criteria goal . 911 happened. The market had been
12 saying build bigger houses, build more expensive houses. Our
13 builders was doing that. In fact, there ' s one here in the
14 audience who got caught with two homes in the $550, 000 range.
15 That market virtually went away, as you're probably aware.
16 Right now the market, the traffic that we' re
_ 17 seeing, is in the $300-400, 000 price range, the product that
18 they're looking for, which is the attainable with the lot
19 prices that we have out there. And traffic is pretty good.
20 This is one of those project, there seems to be a good
21 demand. It's not one that you can sell to people. They come
22 out. They either like it or they don't like it. If they do
23 like it, typically it will take them two to three visits
24 before they make a buying decision to purchase.
25 Any questions?
131
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Any questions for Mr. Colburn?
2 Commissioner Geile?
3 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Since you've been involved
4 with this since its inception, how many owners have been
5 involved with it?
6 MR. COLBURN: I 'm sorry, I didn 't hear you.
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: How many owners have been
8 involved with it? In other words, well, let me just put it
9 this way: Partnerships, different financial groups been
10 involved with it? Was this the second one or the third one?
11 MR. COLBURN: There' s been a total of three
12 partnerships that have owned the project.
13 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Partnerships since ' 89 or
14 since ' 99?
15 MR. COLBURN: Yes, the original partner who started
16 the development --
17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Which would have been ' 89 --
18 ' 86, ' 89 .
19 MR. COLBURN: ' 89 -- went broke, I believe, in
20 1991, or declared bankruptcy. Was purchased by a second
21 group, and the majority owner of that partnership died in
22 2000. And they carried the project up until -- actually, the
23 current partnership purchased the property just before 911 .
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, I did have one more
25 question. Does the current partnership have the financial
132
1 integrity to carry this project on?
2 MR. COLBURN: Yes, I believe they do.
3 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
5 (No response. )
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
7 MR. COLBURN: Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Monica, you had some answers to some
9 questions this morning?
10 MS. MIKA: Yes, Monica Mika, Department of Planning
11 Services.
12 I do have a copy of the Milton Reservoir lease for
13 the Board to look at. And the question Commissioner Geile
14 asked was in relationship to the lease and what the
15 prescribed uses were in the lease, and it 's hunting,
16 swimming, fishing, sailing and boating. So I ' ll just give
17 that to the Board.
18 Also, the Board asked a question pertaining to the
19 minimum lot sizes and the replat of the first filing. The
20 minimum lot size is 1. 52 acres, with an average lot size of
21 2 . 4 acres. And just for the record, there are 188 lots.
22 The second information I 'd like to enter into the
23 record is the list of 14 -- the 14 amenities. It is in your
24 packet, but just because you have so much today, I made a
25 copy of that.
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1 One of the questions that came up as far as what
2 were the commitments in relationship to the amenities in
3 previous cases, I gave you a statement, a concept statement,
4 from the change of zone packet S-412 . I also have a
_ 5 statement concerning the replat of the first filing from Case
6 S-299 where it talks about amenities associated with the
7 first platting. And I have lots of copies of these
8 petitions, and I will distribute those. There ' s enough that
9 you guys can all have one of all of these.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any questions for
11 Monica? Commissioner Masden?
12 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: I just had a question, Staff,
13 probably for Pam, actually. With that septic system that
14 they're talking about using with that sand filter, do you
15 have any experience with that or --
16 MS. SMITH: Pam Smith, Weld County Health
_ 17 Department. I have a little bit of experience with it.
18 Truly, most of the soil in the County is good. There are
19 some areas where we do have really sandy soil similar to
20 this, not to this extent, that has been developed. I know of
21 a couple of systems that have actually -- systems that have
_ 22 been specifically designed as a sand filter system with these
23 criteria. Like I said, it 's almost identical to all the
24 other septic systems that are in this subdivision, the first
25 filing of this subdivision and in other areas of the County
134
1 when we run into this kind of soil. We don't have any record
2 of any monitoring of that to see what the performance
3 standards of those are. The current State ISDS guidelines
4 are not performance-based, they're prescriptive-based, which
5 means that if you meet these criteria, you can put in a
6 system. They don't say that you can do something different
7 and then monitor to make sure that you maintain that
8 standard, and if you don't, you need to step up your
9 treatment.
10 So we don 't have any record. I 'm not aware of any
11 record of that.
12 So I have a little bit of information from the EPA.
13 It doesn't say specifically what it brings the nitrate levels
14 down to, at least not what I have read. I could also bring
15 it to your attention that the EPA has just issued as of March
16 this year some voluntary national guidelines for management
17 of on-site septic systems, and they were not published at the
18 time that we did the review for Planning Commission. They
19 were just in the draft form. But this management plan
20 -- there's five models in the EPA voluntary guidelines for
21 management. This model that they are proposing incorporates
22 almost all of the elements of a Level 4 management plan of
23 five levels, which is pretty restrictive as far as monitoring
24 and maintenance and the management by a public entity or a
25 private entity versus any other septic system in the County.
135
1 In a rural area would be a Level 1 voluntary management plan,
2 which means if something goes wrong, you fix it kind of
3 thing.
4 So if that helps give you an idea of what the level
5 of management is as far as what the EPA has identified of
6 five levels -- so I don't know if that helps you out, too.
7 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Jerke had a question.
9 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 I had a question for Chuck Carpenter, an oil and gas
11 question, if that' s --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: If you wouldn't mind, sir, if you
13 would please come forward? And let the record show that Mr.
14 Carpenter will be answering the question.
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Chuck, I had one final oil and
16 gas question. It didn't really occur to me I guess before.
17 Who owns actually the mineral rights on all the subject
18 property?
19 MR. CARPENTER: The mineral rights on the odd
20 section are owned by Anadarko, which used to the Union
21 Pacific lands that are odd sections. The mineral rights,
22 which are incidentally all leased through oil and gas at this
23 point, on the other portions are owned by Aristocrat Angus.
24 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. So is there no mineral
25 rights that are owned by the applicant?
136
1 MR. CARPENTER: No, the applicant does not own
2 mineral rights.
3 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. And how would -- how
4 would you handle the surface damage deals? Typically, you
5 get a little hunk of money for the inconvenience and such on
6 surface damage deals when you have new exploration.
7 MR. CARPENTER: That is covered in our agreement,
8 and for the lands that are covered in the agreement, the
9 agreement is that there will be surface damage payments made
10 to the Metro District. The wells by and large, if not
11 exclusively, will be drilled and located on the Metro
12 District lands after -- you know, assuming the filing is
13 approved, et cetera, then they will be, you know, committed
14 to the Metro District for new wells in the future drill
15 sites.
16 COMMISSIONER JERKE: So those would be monies that
17 would just go to the Metro District to help with the overall
18 expenditures, I suppose, for --
19 MR. CARPENTER: Right. Right, there would be no
20 restriction on what the Metro District would do with those
21 funds, other than the restrictions as a public entity and
22 that type of thing.
23 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Kind of a general fund
24 revenue?
25 MR. CARPENTER: And that would be for the first new
137
1 well and each of the -- we have future well sites that have
2 no wells in them, and that's what the payment would be for.
3 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 At this time, then, what I ' ll do is open up the
6 public testimony. What we typically do here at this point
7 regarding the public testimony is open it up to any referral
8 agencies that have been a part of this process. And as I
9 stated earlier, remember that the evidence that the Board can
10 consider is that evidence that pertains to this application
11 and maybe not towards a prior decision in regards to the
12 zoning element of this. So please help the Board, in giving
13 your input, to tailor your message that is going to be
14 helpful to us as far as the information that we ' re going to
15 be able to help make our decision with.
16 And also as a part of this, in order to respect
17 everybody' s time in the process, if you're in agreement with
18 something that was said earlier in the support side or in the
19 opposition side, or what have you, if you would just say you
20 support what was previously said, as opposed to restating
21 everything. If you have some new ideas that you'd like to
22 present, please feel free to give those. But that way we can
23 just try to expedite this.
24 So I ' ll first ask if there's any referral agencies,
25 such as oil and gas, if you'd like to start, and I 'd ask you
138
1 to please state your name and address for the record, please.
2 And, welcome.
3 MR. PAGETT: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, my name
4 is David Pagett. I 'm a consultant for Patina Oil and Gas
5 Corporation; business address, 1625 Broadway, Suite 2000,
6 Denver, Colorado 80202 .
7 First of all, I 'd like to thank the Commission and
8 the Planning Commission for working very diligently to help
9 the parties, the surface developers, as well as the mineral
10 rights owners and lessees, to come to an agreement. We
11 worked very diligently for eight months to get this agreement
12 worked out. We worked very hard to locate all the lines and
13 facilities and wells that were located on the property, and
14 we resulted in an agreement that I think is comprehensive,
15 covers the safety, health and welfare of the communities out
16 there, the safety issues related to the oil and gas assets,
17 and I think gives everyone a chance to move forward with the
18 development of their assets.
19 A couple of things I 'd like to bring up. Once I
20 get done speaking, the representative for the Anadarko
21 mineral interest will come up and address a few points, as
22 well as Kerr-McGee Corporation.
23 The agreement that was entered into between the
24 Beebe Draw interest and Patina, Kerr-McGee and Anadarko
25 covers only the odd-numbered sections, except for Section 4 ,
139
1 where Patina owns interest, but Anadarko and Kerr-McGee do
2 not. So there is an agreement as to Patina's interest in
3 Section 4 .
4 Encana Oil and Gas (phonetic) is another party
5 whose assets are represented on Exhibit A, but who is not a
6 party to this agreement.
7 Also, Duke, a gas-gathering company, their assets
8 are also shown on the plat, but they are not a party to this
9 agreement either.
10 So just so you know, I 'd say the majority of the
11 oil and gas operators ' interests are represented, except for
12 Encana, and the major lessee' s interest is also represented.
13 Patina Oil and Gas currently operates approximately
14 40 wells on this property. And I 'm sorry, there are so many
15 wells that have been drilled. I have not sat down and
16 actually counted each and every one; do they fall on Anadarko
17 minerals, do they fall on Aristocrat Angus minerals? But I
18 would say, and please don't hold me to this number, but I
19 would say the vast majority of the wells have been drilled.
20 Probably somewhere in the order of 70 to 80 percent of the
21 wells have already been drilled. There are deepening
22 opportunities for different horizons, and when it ' s possible,
23 companies would seek to go into an existing well bore and
24 deepen that well bore so that they're not drilling a new
25 well, but they in essence had a drilling operation going on.
140
1 So we have provided places for new wells to be
— 2 drilled, but for the most part, any new wells that will be
3 drilled will either be deepening of existing well bores or
4 they will be occurring from areas where wells already exist.
5 Also, as was stated, in the prior agreement for
6 this development, there was a 300-foot setback related to oil
— 7 and gas wells, as well as production facilities. Our
8 agreement we' ll have 150-foot setback from each individual
—
9 well, 200-foot setback from each individual production
10 facility and/or tank battery, and then a 75-foot setback from
11 a flow line. And let me make a quick distinction between a
12 flow line and a pipeline or a gas line. A flow line is the
13 line that runs from the well to a production facility. That
— 14 is carrying the raw product from the well . With that, you
15 have water production, you have oil production, condensate
16 and gas.
17 That is the reason that we 've put in this
18 agreement, a request and requirement for a 75-foot setback,
— 19 is that those lines are subject to a lot of impurities and
20 variation in pressures. And so we felt that that 75-foot
21 setback from an ignition source would be very good for the
22 standpoint a maintaining a safe distance from ignition
23 sources and also giving us adequate space in which to take
— 24 care of those lines.
25 We have -- again, I say all the assets, I believe,
141
1 are shown on Exhibit A. I am not exactly sure at this point
2 what the integration is between the plat that 's being
3 recorded and the J.L. Walter plat, if you will, that 's been
4 referred to. All the oil and gas assets are shown on the
5 J.L. Water plat, dated July the 10th, and that' s what we've
6 been referring to as an exhibit to our agreement and what we
7 hope will be integrated into either the final plat or a
8 subsequent of the recording of the plat for the subdivision,
9 provided it's approved.
10 And with that, I don't have anything else to add.
11 I would now like to introduce Molly Sommerville -- I 'm sorry.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I ' ll first ask if there ' s any
13 questions from the Board for you, Mr. Pagett.
14 Are there any questions for Mr. Pagett?
15 (No response. )
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Please continue.
17 MR. PAGETT: I ' ll remain up here in case there are
18 collectively to our group.
19 MS. SOMMERVILLE: Mr. Chairman, members of the
20 Board, my name is Molly Sommerville. I 'm an attorney with
21 Krug and Soble. My address is 1700 Broadway, Suite 508 ,
_ 22 Denver, Colorado 80290, and I 'm here to represent Anadarko E
23 and P Company, LP, which was formerly known as Union Pacific
24 Resources Company, and also Anadarko Land Corp, which was
25 formerly known as Union Pacific Land Resources Corporation.
142
1 The Anadarko entities own all of the minerals under
2 Sections 5, 9 and 17 in 3 North, 65 West. So it 's the odd
3 sections that are included in the application that REI
4 Limited Liability Company has filed for the second -- the
5 final plat for the second filing.
6 Anadarko Land Corp owns the hard rock minerals
7 under the properties, and Anadarko Land Corp and Anadarko E
8 and P Company together own all of the oil and gas that
9 underlies those three sections.
10 They Anadarko entities have submitted a letter to
11 the Board. It' s dated October 31, 2002 . It' s entitled
12 "Notice of Mineral Interests Owned by Anadarko Land Corp and
13 Anadarko E and P Company, LP, an objection.
14 Anadarko Land Corp, with respect to the hard rock
15 minerals that it owns under the property is not asking you to
16 deny the application. They are not asking for you to include
17 a condition to the approval of the application. They are not
18 in any way trying to hold up the approval of this application
19 for the hard rock mineral interests.
20 With respect to the oil and gas interests that the
21 parties own, as Mr. Pagett has indicated and Mr. Carpenter
22 has also indicated, we have entered into an agreement with
23 REI, a limited liability company, and in light of that
24 agreement, we would withdraw our objection with respect to
25 the oil and gas interests.
143
1 I did want to comment on a couple of things that
2 have come up in the testimony, and Mr. Pagett has already
3 taken care of a few of those notes that I had. But I think
4 Mr. Clinger had indicated in his testimony that each of the
5 homeowners who purchased a lot would be getting a copy of the
6 surface use agreements between the oil and gas companies and
7 the developer.
8 Our agreement does not call for that. Our
9 agreement provides that REI is to give a copy of that
10 agreement to builders, developers, homeowners associations,
11 and I think any person who has a contract to purchase a lot
12 that is burdened by either a part of a production facility
13 location, a well set location or a pipeline easement. So
14 it' s limited in that way.
15 But this agreement will also be recorded in the
16 Clerk & Recorder' s Office of Weld County.
17 I think Mr. Pagett indicated that there were a
18 number of wells in the property. By my count on the Anadarko
19 minerals, the three odd sections, I believe there are 56
20 wells producing on that property. As Mr. Pagett has
21 indicated, those wells can be deepened, they can be
22 recompleted. There could be (inaudible) opportunities for
23 those existing wells.
24 In addition, we provided for four future drill site
25 locations. So you can see most of the property for well set
144
1 locations has already been utilized and is being utilized for
2 the purposes of producing oil and gas.
3 I think throughout the negotiation, the oil
4 companies have been very cognizant of safety issues, and
5 that's why you see in the agreement the kinds of terms that
6 Mr. Pagett has referred to with the 75-foot setback between
7 the pipelines and in a building that would have a source of
8 ignition in it. And you will also see in the agreement that
9 within the well site locations and the production facility
10 locations, there are strict terms about what uses can be
11 within those locations. Those provisions all have to do with
12 health and safety matters and the concerns that the oil
13 companies have about operating out in an area where there is
14 going to be residential development.
15 I would just like to address real quickly the
16 septic system issue, which has come up in a multitude of ways
17 through various speakers to tell you what my interpretation
18 of the agreement is, and Mr. Pagett and Mr. Greneaux could
19 correct me if they think I 'm wrong.
20 But you see that there are lots in the area that
21 have building envelopes, and there are only a certain small
22 percentage of them that do show building envelopes. We
23 created those building envelopes because in those lots, there
24 are pipeline easements, and our concern was to create that
25 75-foot setback between the pipeline and where the residence
145
1 would go because the residence has a source of ignition in
2 the form of a furnace or a water heater, or something like
3 that. So we wanted to make sure that the houses were at
4 least 75 feet from the pipelines.
5 With respect to a septic system, I don't know the
6 mechanics of septic systems, but I think under the terms of
7 the agreement, so long as there isn't a source of ignition in
8 that septic system, that it could probably be located outside
9 the building envelope; not on the easement, but outside the
10 building envelope within the lot.
11 And just to let you know, this has been a very long
12 and sometimes difficult negotiation, and I wanted to very
13 much thank REI, and particularly Mr. Walter, who has gone
14 through several iterations of the plats to get them to the
15 place that the oil companies feel comfortable with, and
16 accommodated their needs. So we wanted to thank them. Also,
17 the Board, and particularly Monica Mika and the Planning
18 Department. You've been very patient with us throughout this
19 process.
20 The surface use agreement, what we do in all of our
21 surface use agreements, it' s designed to take care of that
22 conflict that exists between developing the surface for
23 surface development and the use of the surface, that mineral
24 owners have the right to use because of their common law
25 rights.
146
1 And so what we do in these agreements is we
2 designate certain areas within the development where oil and
3 gas operations will take place so that the developer can then
4 go forward and do the development on the remainder of the
5 property. And this has been a very challenging one, and I
6 think we 've all come to an agreement that we feel comfortable
7 with. So, thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Are there any questions
9 for Ms. Sommerville? Commissioner Masden?
10 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Molly, you talked about, you
11 know, the agreements that you have and the number of wells
12 and stuff, and the gas-gathering system. Who has the gas-
13 gathering system out there?
14 MS. SOMMERVILLE: I think there are multiple
15 parties that own the system. I think Chris Greneaux with
16 Kerr-McGee can tell you more specifically who has them. I
17 believe Duke has lines out there and Kerr-McGee, and there
18 may be others.
19 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: All right. Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions for Ms.
21 Sommerville?
22 (No response. )
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
24 MR. GRENEAUX: Good afternoon. My name is Chris
25 Greneaux, and I 'm a landsman with Kerr-McGee Rocky Mountain
147
1 Corporation. Our address is 1999 Broadway, Suite 3600,
2 Denver, Colorado 80202 .
3 Kerr-McGee Rocky Mountain Corporation has certain
4 oil and gas leasehold interests in the odd sections, Sections
5 5, 9 and 17 on the property. Kerr-McGee currently operates
6 36 existing natural gas wells that are located on these odd
7 sections throughout the proposed development. Kerr-McGee
8 Gathering, who is a subsidiary of Kerr-McGee Rocky Mountain
9 Corporation, operates numerous high-pressure, natural gas
10 pipelines, and I think Mr. Pagett earlier demonstrated a
11 difference between a flow line and what we consider a
12 pipeline or a gathering line. I think they've addressed just
13 about all of the other issues, except for primarily the
14 pipeline issues that were raised earlier.
15 One issue that we spent a lot of time working on
16 throughout these negotiations have been the pipelines and the
17 easements associated with those pipelines. The plat that we
18 have before us today that will be attached to the surface use
19 agreement does not specifically indicate the easements for
20 the existing flow lines or pipelines. However, our surface
21 use agreement does spell out the dimensions and where those
22 lines and easements for those lines are to go. We have not
23 seen, or to my knowledge, I have not personally seen the
24 final plat that has been submitted to the County and whether
25 or not it shows the easements, or proposed easements, for the
148
1 existing lines that are on the property today.
2 So with that, I think we've addressed quite a bit
3 of the concerns that were mentioned above, but we 'd be happy
4 as a group to answer any further questions that the Board
5 Commissioners may have.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Chris.
7 Are there any questions for Chris? Commissioner
8 Masden?
9 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Thank you.
10 Chris, does Kerr-McGee have part of the gathering
11 system out there?
12 MR. GRENEAUX: Yes, sir.
13 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Do they? What size line is
14 that?
15 MR. GRENEAUX: They're multiple lines, ranging from
16 three inches all the up to eight-inch size lines. So there 's
17 -- it's quite -- if you've seen the plat with the oil and gas
18 exhibit, it's spaghetti out there. There are numerous lines
19 running all over. And most of the lines, when they were laid
20 throughout the past 20 years, were laid in accordance with --
21 everybody knew this had the potential for development
22 someday, and so it was all coordinated with (inaudible) or
23 their predecessors as to where those lines were to be laid,
24 for the most part.
25 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Is that a high-pressure
149
1 system?
2 MR. GRENEAUX: Yes.
3 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. What does the pressure
4 run?
5 MR. GRENEAUX: I 'm the landsman, not an engineer.
6 I 'm sorry, I can't help you there.
7 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Yeah, that' s just to quantify
8 that's a high-pressure system there, so --
9 MR. GRENEAUX: It is, yes.
10 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: So, okay. All right. And
11 there' s 75 feet of easement on each side?
12 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, what we 've defined, and
13 correct me if I misspeak, is that from an existing pipeline
14 or flow line as it exists today, we have created basically
15 essentially a 20-foot easement, 10 feet from either side of
16 that existing line. If there are two lines that are five
17 feet apart from each other, which there are quite a few that
18 are like that today, then that 10 feet from either side of
19 the line extends out from the outermost gathering line. So a
20 minimum will have a 20-foot easement for a flow line or a
21 pipeline, and that number can grow depending on the number of
22 existing lines that are out there today. Where the 75 feet
23 come in is specifically for the safety requirements with an
24 ignition source, if we ever have a leak, or, you know, the
25 unfortunate accident, we don't want residents out there
150
1 getting hurt.
2 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? Commissioner
4 Jerke?
5 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Just one question. Is it set
6 by the Federal Government even for the small lines on how
7 close you can get, or is that just for the bigger lines?
8 MR. GRENEAUX: To my knowledge, and I 'm not an
9 attorney or expert on that at all, this is something that has
10 just come up, that 75-foot, as part of other negotiations and
11 what the oil companies feel is a safe distance to be away
12 from ignition sources.
13 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay. So (inaudible) the big
14 lines, the Department of Transportation has something to say
15 about that, but I didn't know how -- what the numbers got
16 down to on a small line for their regulation.
17 MR. GRENEAUX: I 'm not sure there is any, but --
18 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Okay.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions?
20 (No response. )
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you, all .
23 THE CHAIRMAN: I ' ll continue, if there 's anybody in
24 the audience who wishes to testify? Sir, if you'd like to --
25 or, yeah. If you could please start, state your name and
— 151
1 address, please, and welcome.
—
2 MR. PARANTO: Thank you. My name is Steve Paranto.
3 My address is 16505 Essex Road North, Platteville, Colorado
4 80651. I 'm a resident of Pelican Lake Ranch or Beebe Draw
5 Farms.
6 I don't really know where to start. I don't
— 7 believe I would all my wife and I a disgruntled people or
8 couple. I think we 're an informed couple.
9 Today I would just like to maybe pull back the
10 curtain a little bit on the Wizard of Oz . Just from
11 listening today, there are so many items, that my notes are
— 12 -- I don't think that we could even get to them. But I think
13 that it's the lack of information or the not disclosing all
14 of the information, is what has really threatened most of the
15 residents at this development.
16 I believe that my wife and I -- she ' s a very caring
— 17 person. She worked diligently in order to try to get the
18 public information that we were supposed to have. It took
19 six months. It took the Homeowners ' , an attorney, probably
20 $6, 000 I think we invested there, just to get the information
21 that was supposed to be ours. And this happens in America,
— 22 let alone Weld County.
23 Just listening to you gentlemen today, I can tell
24 that you get it, and I know that there are a lot of residents
25 that get it, and there are some that don't. And that some
152
1 may have fear of losing their investment, or the value of
2 their home is going to go down. It' s already went down in
3 Pelican Lake. It was not -- it was due to that that all of
4 us met last December. And we met in Platteville at a cafe,
5 and we voted on quite a few issues that we needed to find out
6 because there were just so many lies and so many
7 misstatements given to all of us just to get us to buy. You
8 know, that marketing plan that you referred to.
9 And I went and finally in order just to get a copy
10 of the service plan, I finally ended up down at the Capitol
11 and had to spend a day copying all of it because we would
12 call the development manager, Christine Hethcock, in her
13 office in Denver and say we 'd like to get a copy of the
14 service plan, and all of us homeowners would like to get it.
15 And she said, oh, it's always in the building there at the
16 community building, and you can always go down there and pick
17 it up.
18 Well, maybe an hour it took before someone got down
19 to the office, and by that time when we got to the office,
20 the salespeople who are there said, no, we 're sorry, but the
21 marketing manager for REI, Kent Colburn, just left, and he
22 stripped the place of all of the public documents. There
23 isn't even a paper clip left.
24 So that began our journey, you might say, to be
25 informed about where we were. I believe that my wife and I
153
1 are uniquely capable of testifying today because we were the
2 fourth resident at Pelican Lake. We have a history. No one
3 here in this room has that history and knows some of the
4 safety issues and some of the experiences that we have.
5 When I was down there, and it took a call to the
6 Governor's Office just to find out about the Department of
7 Local Affairs, or the Local Government Affairs, and, of
8 course, when you do find that department, which is the only
9 who oversees metro districts and special districts, the first
10 thing that you're confronted with is pamphlets and brochure
11 telling you not to get involved in a metro district. It is
12 the worst thing, especially a dirt metro district. You're in
13 for a purpose, which is what the legislators meant, was to
14 share fire protection, to share water districts, to do
15 something.
16 We have a dual -- and I know you may not all of all
17 known it, or you may have been ill informed, like we are, and
18 you allowed them to have a dual district, one on top of us.
19 The only way that I can even describe it to you is looking at
20 the map of Arizona, you see the Navajo Tribe, and inside you
21 see a Hope (phonetic) Tribe. Well, we 're the Hope, they're
22 the Navajo. They tax us. We pay for everything. The
23 Navajos have the control of all decision making, where the
24 money goes, and all that the Hope is there for is to work,
25 pay the taxes and have no voice in their government. They
154
1 have gone to such extremes to keep us from voting, that the
2 Department of Local Affairs in Denver notified the district
3 attorney here in Weld County and told him, this needs to be
4 investigated. This is a disenfranchised voter. This is a
5 community of voters who have never -- no one that sits on
6 either district board has ever been elected. They have just
7 fallen by -- because no one was there to vote.
8 We were given in writing that it was one lot, one
9 vote. Well, gentlemen, after we find out -- you get
10 informed. You find out that if you're a registered voter, by
11 God, you can vote. So one lot, one vote, they were always
12 telling us, until it' s 50 percent sold out here, you will
13 never have to go to those meetings. You will control
14 everything. You know, it' s just been one lie after another.
15 It 's such a hoax that I think it stemmed from their own fear.
16 Here they came up with an idea and a concept some 20 years
17 ago that it didn't work. They went bankrupt, and then low
18 and behold, they bought the assets back at 50 cents on the
19 dollar and created a new company. And they just keep doing
20 this and bankrupting, that recently when I was talking with
21 the city attorney down in Castle Rock, this thing became
22 headline news, was the same type of situation where you have
23 a Metro District, the developer leaves, and by God, who is in
24 charge of all that debt? The homeowners. It' s our homes
25 that are the collateral against those bonds. And so it
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1 created a point where the State did bail them out a little,
2 and then also the City of Castle Rock did, but those people
3 are still paying that indebtedness.
4 I 'm sure that was a great plan. You know, my wife
5 and I bought into it, and we're not easy to have that done.
6 We checked twice with this County and Planning and Zoning,
7 and we were told they had an escrow, money to back this
8 development up. And then in 2001 or -- in 2001 when the one
9 owner died, they found a weasel clause that allowed them to
10 take that. So that equity or that money is gone now. So
11 there is no real support behind it.
12 Then the number one first question, and I have to
13 thank Mike for bringing it up, that I ask is, why is it at
14 any meeting or any time you talk to their marketing staff or
15 to them, they tell you, we have to have Phase 2 approved. We
16 won't get amenities, or nothing is going to happen. You
17 know, the world is going to fall apart tomorrow unless we get
18 Phase 2 approved.
19 Well, the first question I ask is, why? You 've
20 sold 40, 50 homes or lots in Phase 1 out of 177 . That' s not
21 even 50 percent. And yet you want 400 or 500 more. It just
22 doesn't make sense to me. I would like to know what that
23 secret is or what that miracle is that's going to happen
24 tomorrow if you approve Phase 2 .
25 Would that be maybe -- and the Blessed Virgin has
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1 maybe been seen out at Milton Reservoir. So now there will
2 be like Fatima and Lourdes, a lot of pilgrims coming through?
3 I don't know. I thought maybe Disney Corporation had
4 contacted them, has a secret contract, that they're going to
5 build Disney World there, and that next year, by next year,
6 we're going to sell out of everything. But there is not
7 guarantee.
8 But I did with the Colorado Board of Realtors, and
9 do you know that this has been, and we have gone through the
10 largest single -- what's the term -- boom in real estate, in
11 development and growth in Colorado history, one of the
12 greatest growth areas that we 've ever had, and we have 37
13 homes.
14 Now, just doing simple math, as my wife Donita
15 pointed out to me, when you use that kind of math, current
16 rate of sales, do you know how long it will take to see
17 complete build-out on this development? Everyone has kind of
18 went around it, but they won't say it. It' s 100 years,
19 gentlemen. Just do the math. It' s 100 years. And that ' s
20 even giving them that. If I used their current rate of sales
21 -- at a meeting that the attorney that we paid for, Michael
22 Stewart here in town, went down to Denver and met with Mr.
23 Cockrel and everyone, we sat around the table, the marketing
24 manager said that, you know, he was spending $250-$300, 000 a
25 year on marketing and had sold one lot. Well , if we use that
— 157
1 criteria, it will be about 200 years.
2 So my wife and I -- oh, sure, when we started, we
3 wanted amenities because that was what was promised to us by
4 Oz. But now we don't want amenities. Do you know the only
— 5 two amenities we believe that this project needs is a nursing
6 home and a mortuary because those are the two things I 'm
—
7 going to need. My children won't use a swimming pool.
8 According to this old outdated, and they hold to it so
9 firmly, this financing plan and service plan, it' s 200 homes.
10 My grandchildren won't ever swim in that pool. My great
11 grandchildren might, but I won't be around. You gentlemen
—
12 won't be around.
13 This finance plan, I was looking at it, and going
14 acros, just at the year 2003 , if you take it straight across
15 -- and this is the one that they really hold to -- it comes
16 out to be 16 -- the cumulative surplus from all of the fees
— 17 and taxes is $16. 7 million for Phase 1. And on Phase 2 it ' s
18 $6 1/2 million. So you're looking at $22 million that we
19 should already have sitting there. Well, if you voted for
20 this and let it go through, tomorrow the residents out there
21 will have to make an immediate tax inlay to them. We ' ll have
— 22 to give them about $800, 000 in order to be current with this
23 finance plan.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: If I might, I understand your
25 frustration with being in the first filing area and
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1 everything globally around that. I wonder if you could focus
2 your comments to your opposition to the second filing in
3 regards to your comments. That would be able to help us.
4 MR. PARANTO: In the second filing, the Phase 2 ,
5 it's the same figures. You're looking at 16 million versus
6 6 1/2 million. What I 'm trying to show you is, that the
7 service plan needs to be totally redone. It needs to be
8 looked at. I think you need time to take a breather. I
9 think you have lots of time. According to their own plan,
10 they support it. They have done a great job of coming up
11 here and telling you about it. They kind of sidestep it, but
12 it boils down to the same thing. You have lots of time
13 before Phase 2 needs to be approved. And I think that you
14 should be able to look back at this service plan, re-evaluate
15 it and make it fit so that it works for the County, works for
16 the residents and works for the developer. I think it should
17 be a win-win situation.
18 As far as a lot of comments were made, I wanted to
19 point out because I like to have some accuracy. When they
_ 20 pointed to Outlot A out here, they pointed over here, and
21 this isn't it (indicating) . This is for, we were told, that
22 the amenities were being placed.
23 The RV picture that you were shown by Monica,
24 that's not an RV parking area. That 's just a parking area by
25 the marina. It' s not protected. Those campers that were
159
1 sitting there have since been destroyed by fire. And we were
2 given notice and letters from them telling us where the new
3 RV parking was. Of course, it was never put in. We drove
4 out there. There 's no place to park anything. It's always
5 that way.
6 And I have to let you know, too, and testify to the
7 fact that none of these things would have occurred,
8 appointing someone to the Metro District, appointing someone
9 to the -- from the homeowners to the Homeowners Association,
10 but it took us six months, an attorney, $6, 000 and a lot of
11 our own personal time and effort just to get them to do that.
12 I don't know if I would trust them, and I can tell you that I
13 don't.
14 As far as in the oil and gas, I appreciate some of
15 the things that were said and that they 've taken a long time.
16 Do you know why it' s taken a long time to hack out an
17 agreement? It' s safety. Here ' s from yesterday. These are
18 quotes from Don Frinch (phonetic) at Kerr-McGee yesterday.
19 This is after the agreement is all done. "The setback for
20 homes by oil and gas production facilities in Weld County is
21 too lenient. The agreement should be with the residents at
22 Beebe Draw Farms, not the developer, because they are the
23 ones who will pay financially and in safety. "
24 This is Diane Blezner (phonetic) . She 's the
25 attorney for Encana. As they mentioned, Encana did not sign
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1 off on this. She was very candid. Yesterday she said,
2 "Encana feels it's a time bomb ticking at Beebe Draw Farms
3 relating to the safety issue. It is our most lucrative
4 production area for all of the oil and gas companies, and
5 that there are several that have already notified neighboring
6 ranches that they're going to put in a new well for every 40
7 acres soon. We have always been against such high density of
8 homes in an isolated area with no local fire protection. "
9 Attorney for Encana.
10 I can testify and my wife can that before the
11 others were here, there were -- we were the fourth, but there
12 were about five residents. And the oil facility, or oil
13 well, adjacent to my property blew in the middle of the
14 night, or had a blowout, as they call it. I and my wife and
15 my two children were awakened in the middle of the night by
16 Weld County Sheriff in our pajamas. We were escorted out.
17 So were the other five families. We were at motel rooms, and
18 it was completely evacuated because of the toxic gas that was
19 now seeping in. And as it was explained to us, into every
20 crevice of our homes, just waiting for the ignitor on our
21 furnace or any type of ignition to blow up. It' s a silent
22 and deadly killer because in the middle of the night, the
23 only reason that we were awakened, gentlemen, was because at
24 that time at the early part of this development, we had a
25 security guard, an off-duty fireman from Johnstown. He
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1 identified what the sound was because it' s invisible. He
—
2 identified and was experienced enough to come and warn us or
3 we would have been taken out by our Sheriff in body bags.
4 Now, if that -- because of the wind and the wind
5 direction as it was moving, they only had to evacuate five.
6 Well, it was the only five residents there.
— 7 A year later -- actually nine months later, the
8 well blew on the other side of our cul-de-sac, and again, we
9 were to be evacuated. This time we didn't have to rent motel
10 rooms because we were lucky enough that one of the firemen
11 from Fort Lupton was an off-duty oil man, and so he knew how
— 12 to cap it quickly enough, or again, it was always at night.
13 And again, we can testify to you that this type of density, I
14 can agree with the attorney from Encana, is not what people
15 always think. I know that everything is always kept secret,
16 and we always want to try to promote to keep our service on
— 17 our property value. But I ' ll tell you, it ' s more important,
18 is life and property than just fulfilling the rules and
19 regulations. You know, we can see that they 've fulfilled
20 what they were supposed to, their minimum requirements on the
21 rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it ' s safe or
— 22 that it's good for the people.
23 I know that some other homeowners will be
24 addressing some of the voting problems that we 've had out
25 there and how that has occurred. But I can tell you that we
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1 could call Mr. Bush, the President right now, because I think
2 I know where Suddam Hussein is. I think he is the voting
3 consultant for REI.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Paranto, let 's please limit --
5 MR. PARANTO: Over --
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Excuse me. Let' s please limit our
7 comments to the deficiencies of the plan. I think
8 Commissioner Jerke had a question.
9 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Well, when he' s ready, I have
10 several quick questions.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Very well. If you could kind
-• 12 of wrap this up so we can get going?
13 MR. PARANTO: As far as the safety of the lake, we
14 were told that we own the lake. Of course, it took a lot of
15 research to find out that it was Fryco that owns the lake. I
16 called and contacted them just recently, and the attorney for
17 Fryco said that they had wrote letters to REI , warning them
18 and telling them to stop promoting that as a lake or
19 recreational facility, that it is not, and that it was a
20 hazard to health. We've contacted the Planning and Zoning
21 Department. They've said that they've told them since the
22 early '80s that it is not to be promoted as a place that you
23 can swim. Someone was up here telling you that it was a
24 recreational asset. Well, Fryco, who owns that lake, totally
25 disagrees and gave me a copy of a declaration from the Water
— 163
1 Quality Control Commission in Denver, which I also heard was
2 being commented on. This is on the issue of Regulation 38,
3 and this is dated October 15th of 2002 , so not even a year
4 ago. And it lists Barr Lake and Milton Reservoir as impaired
_ 5 water bodies. They are not to be used for recreational
6 purposes. And, in fact, it cites at the back of it, that it
—
7 has pathogens, toxicity arising from blue/green algae and
8 bacterial activity, viral, organic and carbon pollutants
9 relating to aquatic life.
10 So the recreational and domestic uses with that
11 lake, it is not even to touch your skin. Yet they continue
12 to promote the lake. They've always promoted it as a swim
13 beach. We have maps, just from what I copied from the
14 Capitol. The plats all show a swim beach.
15 And then just hours ago, last Saturday morning,
16 again they're promoting a canoe club out at the lake and a
— 17 breakfast in the morning, so that if you have children, you
18 know that they're going to get into the water with their
19 hands when they're on the beach, and then put it to their
20 mouth when they're eating.
21 At the same time, from the Weld County Department
— 22 Health -- I ' ll pass this out. This is a copy of a report,
23 and this one is dated August of last year, 2002 . One of our
24 residents at Pelican Lake got Guardia cyst there, which is a
25 terminal disease if it is not caught soon enough. This is
— 164
1 the lab results from it, and as you can see, they were able
2 to catch it for this young boy, Cody, and it all came from
3 contaminated water and is now part of public record at our
4 Health Department.
5 I think that there are a lot of things that we can
6 cover about the deceptions, the lies that we have received
7 for so long from being told that the water -- my wife and I
8 have always been told -- we've never been told not to swim at
9 the lake or not to go to the lake. But we can testify to you
10 that I and my children, as documented at our doctor ' s office,
11 would get sick every time we went to the lake just to boat.
— 12 Now, maybe you're a better boater or Boy Scout, but you're
13 going to get wet, or you're going to have the water touch you
14 if you're boating, or, of course, if you're swimming there.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, if I could ask you to
—
16 summarize, if you could, out of respect for a lot of other
— 17 people who want to testify.
18 MR. PARANTO: Sure.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
20 MR. PARANTO: The other item I wanted to say was
21 the first resident and purchaser out at -- was Chris and
— 22 Victoria Haneau (phonetic) , and they were world champion wind
23 surfers, and that was one of the things that they went out
24 there for, was it was promoted as a great swim and boating
25 lake. He got sick so many times that he stopped doing it.
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1 They put their house up for sale and moved.
2 In summary, I guess what I would try to say to you
3 is that what assurances do you have that the infrastructure
4 of Phase 2 would even be built, that it would even be safe?
5 And I believe that I 've given you, as well as others, reason
6 enough to delay this and take your time before even
7 considering such an old finance and service plan as this one
8 has been working under. And really, putting a town the size
9 of LaSalle out in the middle of nowhere with no services at
10 all is what this comes up to be.
11 So I would ask you to vote no on this Phase 2 . And
12 that' s pretty much my summary.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Paranto.
14 Commissioner Jerke has a question.
15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16 To your knowledge, how many homeowners actually
17 serve on the Metropolitan District Board?
18 MR. PARANTO: There is only one on Metro District
19 I, which, of course, has -- the only function is to collect
20 taxes and set the mill levy. They have no control over
21 spending the money.
22 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And how about the other Metro
23 District?
24 MR. PARANTO: Metro District 2 has no residents,
25 and according to the Department of Local Affairs, they
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1 believe that it' s unconstitutional because it, in itself,
2 even states that it will never have a resident in District 2
3 because every time someone becomes a resident, they are
4 transferred to District 1 just to pay taxes and then be
5 controlled by District 2 . Yeah.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions?
7 (No response. )
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
9 Does anybody else wish to testify today in regards
10 to this application either in support -- there' s a man back
11 -- or one of you.
12 And if you could, please, try to summarize your
13 comments. We understand the passion and the emotion behind
14 it, but out of respect for everybody' s time, if we could
15 please stay with the facts and stay focused on the
16 application as it is, and we' ll go forward. Thank you.
17 MS. EVANS-CORNELIUS: I 'm Jane-Evans Cornelius, the
18 owner of Coyote Ridge Ranch. I am the ranch owner to the
19 east kind of surrounding this subdivision. I am not a
20 professional -- and my address is 18300 Weld County Road 43 ,
21 LaSalle. I 'm kind of nervous about this. Forgive me.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: That's okay.
23 MS. EVANS-CORNELIUS: Jackie very articulately
24 discussed the old decision and the good-faith issues that the
25 County Commissioners should vote to approve this because the
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1 old County Commissioners acted in good faith and the
2 developer has acted in good faith. I would like to just say
3 one sentence. I do not believe the developer has acted in
4 good faith, and I believe the facts support that. So it's an
5 open ball game.
6 The developer presented gorgeous pictures, et
7 cetera. And I just happen to have some pictures that I would
8 like to submit to be part of the record. These were taken a
9 few days ago. I drive by there every day. I see it every
10 day. So you can just have these --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: You can hand them to the attorney.
12 MS. EVANS-CORNELIUS: -- pictures for the record.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 MS. EVANS-CORNELIUS: I also have a little small
15 report, not nearly as professional with all sorts of goodies
16 attached to it, but I 'm just going to give you these, which
17 summarize what I 'm going to say so I won't have to really
18 take too much time.
19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Are there two sets?
20 MS. EVANS-CORNELIUS: There' s a set for everybody.
21 The pictures, they're just kind of mixed up. Just pass them
22 around.
23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, that didn't work. I
24 need to know what you submitted here.
25 MS. EVANS-CORNELIUS: Oh, I 'm sorry. There' s a
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1 letter for everyone, and there' s a set of pictures. If there
2 are duplicates, it is inadvertent. They're not supposed to
3 be duplicates.
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But you handed me two of
5 these. These are all supposed to be different pictures?
6 MS. EVANS-CORNELIUS: They were taken at slightly
7 different angles, and I was just flicking the little computer
8 camera thing.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: So for the record, you 're submitting
10 all the pictures.
11 MS. EVANS-CORNELIUS: I 'm submitting all the
12 pictures.
13 I am going to address two main issue. They're
14 multiple issues. One is the mineral activity. I have quite
15 a bit of mineral activity on my ranch, so I am very familiar
16 with how the system works. And I actually got the feeling
17 that some of you were more familiar about how the day-to-day
18 activities worked and some of our experts were, who may not
19 have actually been on a drill rig recently.
20 The oil and gas expert said there were 80 wells.
21 Well, right now in the five sections, there are 139 producing
22 wells. When this case was presented in the ' 80s, there were
23 19 producing wells. So the facts have changed so
24 dramatically, from 19, and that is a 732 percent increase in
25 wells with more wells scheduled.
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1 This is a production report on every well located
2 on the property. Anybody can get this from the Oil and Gas
3 Commission, but it just lists the wells. They mentioned
4 Encana not being a party to this agreement. You will notice
5 that Encana is the operator of quite a few of these wells.
6 And I ' ll just submit these in case anybody wants to look at
7 it.
8 They talked about how much room it takes to work on
9 these wells. Well, when they re-complete or frac a well on
10 my land, they fence over an acre, and the entire space is
11 filled with those big red frac tanks. There are a continual
12 line of trucks coming in and out of the well site for
13 anywhere from five days to 30 days. The operators will tell
14 you, quite frankly, we can't control all our subcontractors.
15 We try to. I have chased down guys driving water trucks and
16 clocked them at 62 miles an hour on oil roads. Tell me those
17 oil roads going through a city is not going to present a
18 health and safety concern.
19 We had an accident on our ranch a couple of years
20 ago. A young man was blown out of the well, broke both his
21 legs, ambulances, the whole bit. The pumpers tell me this
22 happens all the time; not on every well, and they do what
23 they can, but it is a dangerous occupation. A hundred and
24 fifty feet from a house? Where' s the frac tank going to be?
25 Alvin Kirkpatrick, who is the field manager for
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1 Kerr-McGee, who you all may know, said that I can expect
2 every well on my property to be fracked at least every three
3 years, and a frac is pretty much like drilling a new well in
4 terms of the level of activity.
5 Within the last 24 hours, two oil companies have
6 left gates open on my ranch, and both oil companies were very
7 sorry and agreed to pay us for gathering the cattle. What
8 about when they leave the gate open and the 10-year old kid
9 goes over to investigate it and the subdivision blows up?
10 You know, I mean, that's sounding kind of like overkill .
11 You're talking about approximately 1, 600 new residents for
12 400 houses, and that probably is what, 800 little boys
13 checking out those oil wells? And who' s going to keep them
14 away from all of that activity, and those trucks, just one
15 right after another?
16 This room is approximately 60 feet. I just paced
17 it off a few minutes ago. So you're looking at setbacks
18 about twice the size of this room. And when they bring in
19 the equipment to frac the wells, I can 't imagine how it isn't
20 going to be just right up there because if you're talking
21 about a two-acre lot, and it takes them an acre-and-a-half to
22 frac a well, where are the people going to go?
23 Okay. The noise level, anyone who has ever been
24 around a drilling rig, when they work on the wells on my
25 property, you can hear them loud and clear a mile away, you
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1 know,
2 Okay. Roads. The roads surrounding the
3 subdivision are designed for and commonly used by farm
4 vehicles, tractors, farm machinery, loaded hay trucks, blah,
5 blah, blah. Weld County has the highest number of annual
6 traffic facilities (sic) in the State and the number of
7 serious accidents is sure to climb with the additional
8 traffic on rural roads.
9 You can't restrict these people to following this
10 little path that they've set out. Mr. Jerke was very wise in
11 saying, no, they're going to go on Road 42 to school. And
12 the one nice lady may not mind driving the several miles on
13 the gravel road, but the health and safety of the residents
14 of Weld County putting that many cars on the road is just
15 inconceivable. The developer statistics and the modification
16 plan said that when they modified the plan from 536 in the
17 original application to the 406, that would decrease the
18 traffic. The modification would decrease the traffic 1 , 580
19 trips a day. If you extrapolate from that, then the addition
20 of 406 houses would increase the vehicles on our rural roads
21 with tractors and oil trucks and frac tanks and bail wagons
22 over 4 , 000 trips per day. Can Weld County afford to pay for
23 the increase?
24 Final comment. Weld County has a proud
25 agricultural heritage. It is the cornerstone of our
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1 economics in this state. This development is not compatible
2 with its agricultural neighbors. Mark Red Angus, Coyote
3 Ridge Ranch (inaudible) , Aristocrat Angus, Wordell Angus
4 (phonetic) , Magnus Limosine (phonetic) , Richey Shorlay
5 (phonetic) Jepson Heffers (phonetic) are all within a few
6 miles of this development. Timmermon Feed Lot (phonetic) ,
7 100, 000 head, right over the will. The Ulrich Feed Lots
8 (phonetic) , the Weber Feed Lots, the Morada Dairy (phonetic) ,
9 the Shelton Dairy, the Bella Holstines (phonetic) , Morning
10 Star Poultry, all of the various Con Agra Turkey Barns, all
11 of the hay producers, corn producers, vegetable producers,
12 way too numerous to list, all within a couple of miles of
13 this development will be seriously negatively impacted by
14 this.
15 We won't be able to move out equipment. We ' ll get
16 complaints. Aristocrat is already getting complaints about
17 cows. It is not in the best economic interest of Weld
18 County.
19 My summary is just very simply, this was ill-
20 conceived. It' s failed before. It' s limped along in the
21 best real estate market with the lowest interest rates we 've
22 ever had. It is not in the best interest of the health,
23 safety and welfare of the citizens of Weld County to expand
24 this further. Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Jane.
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1 Are there any questions for Jane?
2 (No response. )
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
4 Is there anybody else? Please, ma 'am.
5 MS. ALSTON: My name is Christine Alston. I live
6 at 16498 Essex Road South, Platteville. I 'm one of the
7 residents out in Pelican Lake.
8 I don't claim to be an expert on farming or
9 anything, but I think that this subdivision is trying to work
10 very hard with the surrounding area. Greeley started as an
11 agricultural community, and it has grown. LaSalle started as
12 an agricultural community, and it has grown. Platteville,
13 Gilcrest, Evans, Johnstown, Milikin. I think that the
14 subdivision has a lot to offer. It is bigger lots. It ' s not
15 high density, and I just think that I would like to see it
16 approved. Even though I am a resident and I don 't know a lot
17 about the agriculture, I think we are trying to work within
18 the guidelines that you have put out for the subdivision, and
19 not everybody is dissatisfied out there.
20 And that's all I have to say. Is anyone --
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Are there any questions
22 for Mrs. Alston?
23 MS. ALSTON: Okay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, ma 'am.
25 And I can see, kind of a line is formed, and that
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1 might be the most appropriate method by which to do this, and
2 it might be good. That way we can have people up here
3 quickly and efficiently. So I appreciate the natural
4 transformation of that area. So if you would like to speak,
5 if you might just kind of form over there, and welcome, sir.
6 MS. TABOR: Mr. Chairman and Board of
7 Commissioners, my name is Douglas Tabor. My address is 16487
8 Ledyard Road South. That 's in Pelican Lake Ranch. I
9 purchased a lot there about January of 2000. We built a
10 home, and I moved in in February of 2001.
11 After some of the testimony today, I think I 'm
12 pretty lucky because I 've been on the lake that was mentioned
13 earlier. I 've canoed on it four or five times, most recently
14 Saturday, with no ill effects. In fact, I enjoyed each time;
15 the wildlife, the flora. My wife has a spotting scope that
16 she takes down to the lake to observe the wildlife, which she
17 enjoys a great deal.
18 I have been around cattle. My brother-in-law has
19 an angus ranch in Grand Forks, North Dakota. The fact that
20 cattle are grazing within 150 yards of me, actually I kind of
21 enjoy listening to them, and I like watching them move back
22 and forth as they want to do.
23 I 'd like to give you an idea of my taxes that I
24 paid last year. About $2 , 700 of it went for various Weld
25 County municipalities. I don't want to bore you, but I ' ll
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1 just tell you what some of those were and how much I paid to
2 each one; not Beebe Draw, Weld County. Weld County itself,
3 $758 ; the Weld County Library, $123 ; School District RE-1,
4 $983 ; Central Weld County, $38 ; LaSalle Fire, $110; Aimes
5 Junior College, $240. That doesn't include Beebe Draw Farms.
6 That 's what I paid toward Weld County.
7 I 'm glad someone mentioned Morning Star Farms, or
8 the Egg Plant because my wife goes up there about every other
9 week to buy some eggs. We patronize the Doubletree
10 Restaurant. We patronize the hardware store in Gilcrest.
11 I 've lived there two-and-a-half years, and I 've
12 never had a well blow out near me. I 've never felt
13 threatened by the oil and gas activity. I know a little bit
14 about it. When you drive into the area, you can see that
15 there are oil and gas wells there. If you have any sense
16 about you, you're going to figure either I want to live near
17 this kind of activity or I don 't. And if you don 't, you back
18 out, and you don't go any further. If you see them and know
19 you're going to be around them, you have some obligation to
20 educate yourself as to what the requirements are for
21 residential structures near wells and whether or not that' s a
22 place you want to live.
23 Just when a real estate person tells me that there
24 are going to be certain amenities built, forgive me, Kent,
25 but I kind of take that with a grain of sand. Unless the
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1 thing is there in the ground and I can see it, I 'm not going
2 to invest in something that is going to be promised a year-
3 and-a-half down the line. I 'm going to do some ground work,
4 and I 'm going to investigate a little myself. And if I like
5 the area, I 'm going to be in the area myself. That 's why
6 we're where we are. There are very few developments that
7 have acreage and a country setting like Pelican Lake Ranch
8 does.
9 We're happy living there. Yes, there 's oil and gas
10 activity, but when I see a well being fracked, I kind of
11 offset the fact that I 've sat on my back deck and watched the
12 sun set over Longs Peak months on end. When I see maybe
13 cattle grazing, I enjoy that. When maybe the well is
14 drilling at night and the lights are on, I think about the
15 next morning when I can go out on a run, and I can be by
16 myself for an hour on dirt roads. And I 've never seen a
17 snake on my property in the two-and-a-half years I 've been
18 there.
19 Thanks very much for your time.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there any questions for Mr.
21 Tabor?
22 (No response. )
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
24 Welcome.
25 MS. BLACK: Hi. Good afternoon. Mr. Chairman and
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1 Commissioners, my name is Linda Black. I live at 16478
2 Burghley Court, Platteville, Colorado 80651 .
3 I am a pretty happy resident of Pelican Lake. I am
4 in support of the second filing. I am one of the people that
5 live pretty close to a collection station, and like Mr.
6 Tabor, I mean, I went out there fully informed that this was
7 going to be something that I was going to have to deal with.
8 I am also from a rural tradition. I grew up in
9 Iowa. And one of the things you know when you move to the
10 country, that there' s going to he hay wagons and tractors and
11 things on the roads.
12 With respect to Ms. Cornelius ' s comments earlier
13 between the potential conflict between us and other
14 agricultural producers out there, to my knowledge, some of
15 those are more than just a few miles from us. In addition to
16 that, who buys those agricultural products but the citizens
17 of this County. And I think that' s an important thing to
18 remember, that we, a number of us, I moved to this County
19 because I work in this County. I used to live in Fort
20 Collins. And a number of the things that this development
21 offers are quality of life issues. It is quiet. We do have
22 great access. I moved here because of the covenants. I
23 don't want to live where there are manicured lawns and fenced
24 areas.
25 And while I agree with Mr. Paranto that there has
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1 been some confusion around amenities and some of the things
2 with the developers, I really feel that it ' s been
3 thoughtfully planned. I think they've been responsive. I
4 look forward to that continued relationship, and I think we,
5 as homeowners, have some responsibility to be active in this
6 process.
7 I counted here today, there are at least 13 or 14
8 homeowners -- not just people -- homeowners here. We 've
9 spent the whole day, giving up our work time, to be here.
10 And I think that's an important piece because if we only have
11 37 homes, those of us that are here made a commitment to be
12 here.
13 I thank you for listening. And I -- excuse me. I
14 appreciate the questions you've asked. I 've really been
15 informed about my development here today.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 Any questions, for Ms. Black? Commissioner Geile?
18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, Ms. Black, when you
19 purchased your house, did you purchase it with the
20 understanding that Phase 2 would be built?
21 MS. BLACK: Yes, I did. And, you know, this
22 discussion about amenities is one that I think there's been
23 some confusion around. I want to support that filing because
24 also as a taxpayer, if people have the opportunity to go into
25 those other areas, my tax burden can get lessened. If they
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1 don't, I 'm carrying a pretty significant burden on my home.
2 So it was not only my understanding that that -- I
3 mean, that was always going to be part of the plan that Phase
4 2 was going to be approved, or a Filing 2 . So --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 Any other questions?
7 (No response. )
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
9 MS. BLACK: Thanks.
10 MS. PARANTO: Hi, my name is Donita Paranto. My
11 address is 16505 Essex Road North, Platteville, Colorado
12 80651.
13 I ' ll try to keep it really short and to the point.
14 Like these people, I 've been standing before you asking for
15 Phase 2 to be approved because I loved it out there, and it
16 was our dream. It was our place, and we were going to live
17 there for 20 years and sell it and make money, and that was
18 going to be our retirement. And then I found out the truth
19 about what was going on out there. So there's just some
20 points that I 'd like you gentlemen to clear up, or to clear
21 up for you.
22 I 've heard a lot about developer fees, and that the
23 developer fees are going to be pay for this subdivision.
24 Well, if you do the math, with 594 total lots times 17, 5, and
25 when we bought, the developer fee was only 15, 5, so I 'm
— 180
1 giving them a break of $2 , 000 more. That ' s a little less
2 than $10 million.
3 According to the service agreement and your
4 projections, the development is supposed to cost
— 5 approximately a little bit over $25 million to build. Now,
6 that 's just in actual dollars. That doesn 't mean, you know,
—
7 the interest that we have to pay back. Like on an $8 million
8 bond, the interest was, I believe, or what we would end up
9 paying back was a little over $25 million on that $8 million
—
10 bond.
11 Also, Mr. Cockrel said that we would have to vote
—
12 to approve future bond authorizations. I have copies that
13 there' s already been over $21 million approved, already
14 authorized, for people, back in 1999 before there were any
_ 15 residents out in this community, voted. So in other words,
16 the developers voted to encumber us up to 21 -- a little over
—
17 $21 million. So there will be no more votes to authorize
18 future bonds. It' s been done already. So the Board can go
19 get bonds.
20 Another thing, according to the Bond Act, we can go
21 up to 50 percent of our assessed valuation of our
— 22 subdivision. Right now, I think Mr. Cockrel, himself, said
23 it, it's $13 million. So right now, as we sit right now, we
24 could have a bond encumbrance of $6 1/2 million. What we
25 have right now is 2 million. We've had that for five years.
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1 And looking through budgets -- and maybe that would be a
2 question to ask the Board. Just how much have we paid off on
3 the principal? We've been paying approximately $140-$150, 000
4 a year in interest, and that 's what the 15 mills of our tax
5 dollars go to, is just interest on our bond. We have not
6 been paying out or off on any principal. What I have found
7 is we have paid $20, 000 is all on the principal of our bond
8 issuance.
9 So if Phase 2 is passed, in budgets projections, we
10 have over $320, 000 that they have projected to use to build
11 roads and water. For Phase 2 -- let me just be totally
12 correct here. Phase 2 , Part 2 , 36 lots. They have adopted
13 $155, 440 for roads and $127, 885 for water. So that means
14 they're not going to finish Phase 1 first. They 're going to
15 go on and finish Phase 2 . Why? Well, the lots are bigger.
16 They can sell them for more money. The lots in Phase 1 are
17 smaller, two, two-and-a-half, three acres, and they're going
18 for roughly $80, 000. What they can sell a 10-acre lot for in
19 Phase 2 , I don't know.
20 But what it does, the possibility to increase our
21 incumbrance is phenomenal. Another thing that I heard was
22 that we had no -- or we had a 50 mill limit to our taxes.
23 Well, according to the Consolidated Service Agreement, page
24 15, first sentence, it says, "The maximum tax levy of the
25 district for operations and debt service is projected to be
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1 40 mills, " which I agree, it is 40 mills right now.
2 You go down three-quarters of the way through that
3 paragraph, without reading the whole thing, "It should be
4 noted that any general obligation indebtedness, including the
5 1998 bonds, is secured by a tax levy without limit as to rate
6 or amount, which must be sufficient together with other
7 available revenues to pay debt service. "
8 So my take on that, we are without limit to our
9 taxes. And even at 100 homes at the projected, at the build-
10 out rate we're going now, in the 15 years when our bonds,
11 just the $2 million bonds are due, add 100 homes, 75 to 100,
12 we're between $20, 000 and $26, 000 per house to pay that off
13 because we haven't paid any of the principal back.
14 You know, instead of using the money to pay back
15 the debt service, we 're using it to build more roads to sell
16 houses that already aren't selling out there.
17 Mr. Geile said it, you know, we only have 37 homes.
18 If they were selling, I 'd say, you know, go for it. I bought
19 into the dream, too, but it' s not happening. And I 'm asking
20 the County Commissioners to please help us keep this
21 development manageable because it could get unmanageable real
22 quick. I 'm not saying never pass Phase 2 , but I 'm saying do
23 it in sections, and maybe the 30-lot sections that they have
24 now. That way we have a chance to see if the traffic is too
25 much or it's too dangerous with the wells, or, you know, we
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1 can't afford it, the Metro District and the taxpayers can 't
2 afford it.
3 A point I wanted to clarify is also, so the
4 taxpayers are putting in over $15 million of this
5 development. Developer fees are paying 10. So the majority
6 and the primary financing mechanism of this development is
7 the Metro District, which is the homeowners through taxes.
8 I 've heard references to the school. The school
9 does own, I think it' s approximately 35 acres. I have been
10 told that they will never build a school out there because
11 they can't build a septic system big enough for 500 people.
12 So we will -- you know, they said that we 're going to need
13 new schools, and they' ll build it in LaSalle. Well, at the
14 rate we 're going, we have one child -- an average of one
15 child per home out there. So let ' s round up by six homes,
16 and say there's 600 kids out there. That 's what, eight, nine
17 buses that it' s going to take just to transport the children
18 to school into LaSalle.
19 Another point, I agree with Mr. Jerke, my kids, not
20 only is it the high school, but Gilcrest Elementary is our
21 elementary school. And I make four trips a day down County
22 Road 42 . You know, it's take them there, I come back, I go
23 to pick them up, and I take them back because they don't have
24 enough buses, at least this is what I was told, in the School
25 District. So the kids go to school an hour earlier so the
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1 buses then have time to go pick up everybody else because,
2 you know, they can't really afford any buses yet. So my kids
3 would be sitting at school for 45 minutes. So I take them in
4 to school.
5 I won't even go into that.
6 Oh, I saw Mr. Jerke, you know, question about the
7 way they exclude land from District 1 to District 2 . And the
8 Service Agreement scared me when I read this thing.
9 "District 2 will have the power to" -- no, wrong one. Sorry.
10 Okay, page 11. "In accordance with the procedures
11 set forth in the District Act" -- this is the first paragraph
12 -- "property within each new phase of the development will be
13 excluded from District 2 , " which holds all the power. The
14 only power District 1 has is debt repayment, and all the
15 homeowners, after they are -- well, I ' ll read it.
16 Okay. "Property within each new phase of the
17 development will be excluded from District No. 2 when such
18 property has been platted and lot sales have commenced by the
19 company or other developers. " So as soon as it goes up for
20 sale, it's excluded from District 2 into District 1 . And
21 there will never be any residents in District 2 . Our State
22 election official has questioned if it is a valid district.
23 We will never have a vote, if these are the people that sets
24 our mill levies, tells -- you know, makes the decisions about
25 everything. And we will never have a vote. That is so
185
1 undemocratic in its most fundamental sense. That is taxation
2 without representation.
3 Let's see, what else did I want to go over?
4 We still have, what, approximately 45 lots in Phase
5 1 that have utilities and roads to it that aren't sold, let
6 alone, what, approximately 90 more that we need to develop?
7 And as far as the (inaudible) , honest to God, we can't afford
8 it. We simply cannot afford it.
9 Okay. And there are so many other things I can
10 tell you, but, you know, I won't go into that.
11 I just would like to say that my feelings on this
12 is everything about this development is questionable --
13 everything; what we were told, what the representations were,
14 how it 's going to be financed, who has control. And we need
15 to find out the answers to those questions before we get into
16 big trouble.
17 You know, I have questions that I 'd like to find
18 out from the developers, like have they paid their developer
19 fees. In the budgets, I haven't been able - you know, I
20 could have missed them, but I haven't been able to see where
21 they've paid their developer fees in approximately three
22 years.
23 I asked Mr. Cockrel, and I never got an answer to
24 this, can the debt that's already been authorized be
25 unauthorized with the vote?
— 186
1 You know, what's their marketing plan now? Do they
2 even have one? As far as I know, the last realtor, and this
3 is about the fourth one, walked off a couple months ago. I
4 don't know how many builders we have out there. They 've all
— 5 left. The last time I was in the sales office, which is our
6 community center by the way, there was only I think two
7 builders up out there. When we first went out three-and-a-
8 half years ago, the whole wall was covered with builders.
9 They've all left. They can't sell their homes. There are
10 homes that have been for sale for three years. The original
11 marketing price on them was like 549, 000. They 're down to
12 420.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma 'am, if you could keep your
14 comments to the second filing application, please?
15 MS. PARANTO: Okay.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
— 17 MS. PARANTO: You know, I 'd like to know what mill
18 levy they pay on their developed lots. They're still in
19 District 1, but I don't know. Is it 40 mills?
_ 20 THE CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Jerke has a question.
21 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Well, when she 's done.
— 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
23 MS. PARANTO: You know, what is the marketing plan?
24 What are they expecting to do to sell homes?
25 And we are filing a lawsuit for misrepresentation.
187
1 We have also talked to a Metropolitan District attorney, and
2 there's many questions about the constitutionality of how the
3 districts were set up and the way we have been
4 disenfranchised to vote.
5 And it's also my understanding that the State
6 Attorney General 's Office is investigating the developers.
7 That's a pretty new development, but from what I 've
8 understood, they think that perhaps there could have been
9 fraud committed against prospective people.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Jerke?
11 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Yeah, just a quick question
12 for you. With respect to an earlier question I had regarding
13 the 40 mills and its abilities to go up without a vote of the
14 people, the answer from an attorney for the applicant was
15 that they had debruced earlier. My question to you, is
16 fourth homeowner, I believe. Did you ever vote on such a
17 thing that would have allowed debrucing to have taken place?
18 MS. PARANTO: I have never voted. I have never --
19 all the elections, according to the records from the
20 Department of Local Affairs, were all done prior -- the first
21 resident, as far as I 'm aware, took residents out there in
22 October of 1999. All of these things are May, August. All
23 of these election ballot issues, which I have copies of, if
24 you'd like to see it, were done prior to the first resident
25 living out there.
188
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Commissioner Geile?
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, the only question I have
3 would be just a very simple answer. Since the time that you
4 purchased your property and built your home, you 're now moved
5 in, and the home is totally completed; is that correct?
6 MS. PARANTO: That 's correct.
7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Has the value gone up or has
8 it gone down, and do you have a basis for that? Has it gone
9 up 20 percent, gone down 20 percent, or what is your opinion
10 of that?
11 MS. PARANTO: Well, we had a realtor come out just
12 a couple weeks ago because -- okay. She said it' s an iffy
13 question. You know, it all is based on what it ' s selling.
14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But what did the realtor tell
15 you?
16 MS. PARANTO: That, no, if that house were in
17 Denver or another subdivision, it would be worth more money
18 than what we could actually get out of it sitting in Pelican
19 Lake.
20 COMMISSIONER JERKE: That's true of a lot of
21 places. I mean, I just want to point out that if any of our
22 homes were in Hollywood, they would sell for more, too.
23 MS. PARANTO: Well, that' s true, or Boulder.
24 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And I know that. I was trying
25 to establish --
-
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Commissioner Jerke.
2 COMMISSIONER GEILE: -- the condition of the
3 project is all. But that answers my question.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
— 5 MS. PARANTO: Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
7 (No response. )
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Sir?
9 MR. COX: Mr. Chairman, other Commissioners, my
— 10 name is John Cox. My wife and I live at 16485 Ledyard Road
11 South, Platteville 80651. That is in Pelican Lake Ranch.
12 First of all, I 've been a member of municipal
13 commissions and other jurisdictions, and I commend you for
14 your meaningful questions and unlimited patience so far, and
_ 15 your meaningful questions to everybody that has had a chance
16 to make a presentation and your patience in listening to the
—
17 answers.
18 I 've sat through meetings that have lasted a good
19 deal longer than this one seems to be going, but I 've never
_ 20 been in one where the people in charge, yourselves, has such
21 a wealth of knowledge and background and concern and
— 22 patience. I just thought I 'd let you know that. I ' ll try
23 and be brief.
24 Our lot is 3 . 3 acres with a leach field, the
25 footprint of which is probably larger than this room, which
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1 costs considerably more than -- your name?
2 MR. SHUPE: Dave Shupe.
3 MR. COX: I 'm sorry, Mr. Shupe 's numbers. I 'm not
4 disputing Mr. Shupe. I 'm just trying to put an exclamation
5 point on what he had to say about that particular issue.
6 Oh, I have a statement, which I ' ll leave with your
7 attorney, just for the record. I wasn't sure I could be here
8 today, so I wrote a letter over the weekend that I hoped one
9 of my neighbors could deliver in the event that I couldn 't be
10 here. But I am, so if you' ll beg my indulgence, I 'd like to
11 read this to you.
12 My wife and I purchased our property at Pelican
13 Lake Ranch while we were still living in Indianapolis,
14 Indiana in the summer of 2001. One of the many attractions
15 that Pelican Lake Ranch offered was large lots, unlike any
16 other development we could find in this part of the state.
17 At that time, it was proposed by the development sales team
18 that the time line for growth in building new homes was such
19 that it would be practical to add a number of amenities, such
20 as a pool, tennis courts, and so on, sometime in the next two
21 or three years. That was perfect for us because our
22 construction was not going to start until the summer of 2002 .
23 It did. And we would not be moving in until the spring of
24 2003 . We did.
25 We had decided to move to Colorado to be near our
191
1 children and grandchildren, and the expectation was that the
2 variety of recreational opportunities at Pelican Lake Ranch
3 and the timing of their availability would coincide with our
4 relocation. These were large factors in our decision to
5 build our home here.
6 Even with what appears to be a postponement of the
7 installation of some of these added features, we have never
8 regretted our decision because of all the other positive
9 aspects of Pelican Lake Ranch to it. Milton Reservoir is a
10 beautiful spot; again, very large, consistent with the size
11 of the lots, with enormous potential for those of us who
12 enjoy wildlife spotting, sailing or canoeing. The spaces
13 around the development are so vast. The traffic is not and
14 probably will never be an issue, and that 's another big
15 change from where we came from.
16 The people who saw it to the early infrastructure
17 planning used exceptional foresight to ensure proper
18 elevations to eliminate drainage and erosion problems and to
19 protect the environment. Again, this was not the case in
20 other places where we've lived.
21 We believe the Pelican Lake Ranch project fits
22 well, nestled among other rural neighbors beyond its borders,
23 and that the continued steady growth of residents in the
24 development will have a significant positive impact on the
25 health of the business climate in the communities of
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1 Platteville, Fort Lupton, Gilcrest, LaSalle, Evans and
2 Greeley.
3 We are very happy there. We support the
4 applicant's proposal and believe that its approval will put
5 into place the comfort that new buyers look for, and we urge
6 you to adopt the provisions of Filing 2 . Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Are there any questions for Mr. Cox?
9 (No response. )
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
11 MS. HARR: Hello, gentlemen.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Hello.
13 MS. HARR: My name is Donna Harr, and my address is
14 16489 Ledyard Road South in Platteville, which is in Pelican
15 Lake Ranch.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Could you say your name over again?
17 I 'm sorry.
18 MS. HARR: Donna Harr.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
20 MS. HARR: It's amazing how four letters can be
21 misconstrued.
22 Let me say, first of all, to the issue as far as
23 what the values are, at least for one, the County thinks that
24 my property has greatly grown up because -- and I try to take
25 comfort in that because it went up $70, 000 this year. So I
193
1 think that's pretty significant for an investment that we
— 2 made three-and-a-half years ago.
3 My husband and I invested in Pelican Lake Ranch
4 three-and-a-half years ago, with a presumption between the
5 two of us that it would probably be around 10 years before we
6 could see a majority of the build-out completed. My husband
— 7 grew up on a 3 , 000-acre ranch in Nebraska, and I come from a
8 small rural town in Oklahoma. And we moved there from
—
9 Denver. After my husband had reached a point where he had
10 lived in Denver for 30 years, he decided we needed to find
11 someplace closer to what we were familiar with.
— 12 Let me flip back here now. After a great deal of
13 research, and I pride myself on doing that and being just
—
14 probably way over meticulous about that, and with the
15 consultation of legal advice, my husband and I are convinced
16 that our best interest and those of the development as a
17 whole would be best served if Filing 2 is passed.
18 We have made not only a significant financial
19 investment in our home, but more importantly, we 've made a
20 major investment in the personal and business relationships
21 with our neighbors in the development and also in the
22 surrounding towns. As an example of involvement that we
23 have, and all of the homes out there are the same way, I 've
—
24 been a member of the South Plate area Chamber of Commerce for
25 three years, and as a fun point, I 'm currently one of the
194
1 chairmans for the Platteville Harvest Days. Please be sure
2 to come by. That 's in two weeks. And I would say
3 approximately 70 percent of my personal business customers or
4 my business income comes from the County of Weld County. So
5 I am heavily invested in that also.
6 My husband works in Evans, and he plans to do so
7 until he retires next year, which may or may not be a good
8 point. That's still under discussion.
9 Our community as a whole contributes and
10 participates greatly with the surrounding communities through
11 the involvement of the children in the development and the
12 school system, the families in the development and the local
13 churches, and also with the area businesses, and they've
14 stated that there is lots of support from them. We do
15 patronize with them quite a bit.
16 So again, I would just urge that the Board of
17 Commissioners would pass the Filing 2 today.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Harr.
19 Are there any questions? Commissioner Masden?
20 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Yes, Donna, what' s your
21 business?
22 MS. HARR: I do -- first of all, I 'm a construction
23 consultant coordinator. So I build houses, and I 've built
24 some -- for one of those local business people, and they're
25 quite satisfied and still welcome me with open arms whenever
195
1 I come in to eat. And then, also, I do all kinds of
2 promotional products. I do embroidered and silk screen
3 clothing. I 've done them for the school in Platteville, for
4 St. Vrain's, for the power plant, for the Platteville
5 Recreational Department, for Harvest Days ' committees, all of
6 their clothes and things that they do, and a sundry other
7 things, like pens.
8 COMMISSIONER MASDEN: Okay. Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
10 (No response. )
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
12 MR. MADISON: I think it' s safe at this point to
13 say good evening, gentlemen.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 MR. MADISON: My name is Brian Madison. I am a
16 resident of Pelican Lake. I 'm located at 16495 South Ledyard
17 Road. I am also on the Board of Directors for the
18 Metropolitan District.
19 I am in favor of the second filing. There is -- if
20 you haven't picked up on it yet by now within some of the
21 residents, to be frank, gentlemen, there has been some
22 frustration with the way that some of the properties have
23 been marketed to some of the people. I think some of the
24 people got a better scoop than others did. The developers
25 hold the ultimate responsibility for that because they have
— 196
1 been -- they've maintained the relationship with the
2 realtors. But the realtor who told me some things, which
3 were not necessarily the truth, is no longer with the
4 development.
5 I think that there has been a tremendous amount --
6 a tremendous amount of the frustration you've seen this
7 evening, this afternoon, from the residents has been as a
8 result of poor communication on the part of the developers.
9 But as I look further and further into the organization, as I
10 sat through this hearing this afternoon, what I am learning
11 over time is that, yes, things could have been handled
— 12 better, especially from a communications standpoint. But
13 what I am learning is that in earnest, the developers would
14 like to see this project succeed.
15 I do not think that Disneyland or the Disney
16 Corporation has contacted the developers and they plan to do
— 17 something with the second filing. I think the motivation for
18 the second filing -- I don't think the second filing -- and I
19 don't know. I don't think the second filing offers any
20 immediate compensation for the developers. I think in
21 earnest, and I am assuming by the number of experts that I 've
— 22 seen line up and come one by one to discuss this issue, I am
23 seeing that the developers have a significant amount of money
—
24 invested in just this afternoon -- this morning and this
25 afternoon's proceedings. I think their motivation for it is
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1 because they would like to see the development succeed.
2 I, too, as a homeowner in the Pelican Lake area,
3 would like to see this development succeed. This is an
4 investment. I brought my family out here, and we made a
5 decision to invest in your fine County, and we on a regular
6 basis invest in the surrounding cities and communities to the
7 Pelican Lake area.
8 One thing I wanted to point out, which may or may
9 not be of interest and may or may not bolster my argument
10 that this filing should go through. I 'm a long-time
11 resident, was a long-time resident of the downtown Denver
12 area in the north Capitol Hill portion. So you might imagine
13 the out-of-culture shock I experienced when I first moved out
14 to the country. I actually could hear myself think at night.
15 I didn 't have to go to sleep to the drown of sirens. And as
16 much talk as I 've heard today about the disruption and the
17 traffic and the oil traffic, I can tell you, gentlemen, that
18 99 percent of every evening when I go to sleep, I can hear my
19 ears ringing from the day' s noise as I go to sleep. It is
20 dead silent out there.
21 My neighbors, the farmers and ranchers, aren't up
22 having big parties, and my neighbors in the Pelican Lake area
23 aren't having big parties. And I can tell you that I can
24 hear the cklickety-clack of the trains going down the main
25 line along 85, which is six miles away. It' s dead silent.
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1 That is why I moved out here, and that is why the people that
2 also live in my community have moved out here.
3 Let me go back to the point I 'd like to make. I
4 come from the Denver area. One of the rules for a Denver
— 5 police officer used to be, up 'till recently, that the police
6 officer, and I think also for some people that work in the
7 other government entities, were required to be residents of
8 the area. The reason for that, I 'm assuming, is because
9 there is an income that they are making, and if they can have
10 some control over where that income is being spent, that' s
11 how they do it. You want a government job, you live in our
12 town.
13 For many people that work within Weld County --
14 obviously, we all live within Weld County, so this is where
15 our income ends up, gentlemen. You have income that' s being
16 recirculated from within jobs within Weld County, and you're
— 17 also acquiring, because of this development and the location
18 of the development on the southern part of Weld County in a
19 relative sense, there ' s a certain economic gain to Weld
20 County as a result of the fact that there is money coming in
21 from Boulder County, Denver County, Adams County and all the
22 surrounding communities that people work in. I would think
23 that would be of benefit.
24 To address the issue that you were asking earlier,
25 Mr. -- is it Geile -- regarding the increase in property
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1 value. I have been hearing about the tax letters, and I 'm
2 sure mine is probably due this coming year. I 've been out
3 there almost two-and-a-half years. We bought in April of I
4 guess 2001, and our house has gone up 10 percent in that two-
- 5 and-a-half years. So property values are increasing still,
6 given the market conditions.
7 I was under the impression that this was a planned
8 community. I don't think that that has been misrepresented
9 in any way, shape or form, and it is my expectation and also
10 my belief that this project will succeed if it is allowed to
11 proceed as it was planned to proceed, with a minimum amount
12 of impact on the surrounding communities in a negative way
13 and a substantial amount of impact on the surrounding
14 communities in a positive way.
15 That 's all I have to say this evening. Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Madison.
17 Are there any questions? Commissioner Vaad?
18 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Mr. Madison, I wonder if you
19 could -- I appreciate your comments. And I wonder if you
20 could give me a thumbnail of your perception of what
21 financial or economic risk that you might be exposed if this
22 next phase doesn't proceed right away and waits until the
23 first phase is built out and goes that way?
24 MR. MADISON: I think there are -- there' s a mixed
25 group of people living up there in Pelican Lake, and there
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1 are some people that clearly come from a more rural
2 background, and there are people like myself that come from a
3 more urban background.
4 The impact that I see potentially happening is that
5 there are many people -- the people that are living in this
6 community benefit from the fact that it' s out in the country.
7 It is quiet, as I said, but it also has substantial amenities
8 that living in the city has to offer. They've got, you know,
9 Central Weld Water, which I 've been informed by not
10 necessarily scientific sources, but I 've been informed that
11 that' s some of the best water in the entire state. We've got
12 paved roads going in there, power gas. We 're not having to
13 run -- you know, we're not having to run propane. We 've got
14 natural gas and power going to the home. And I think that a
15 lot of people are attract to, you know, the quiet country
16 setting, but also the fact that there is modern amenities.
17 But I ' ll just give you my own prospective because
18 that' s really all I can speak to. When we came to move out
19 here, the expectation was that it would build out. And the
20 -- it would be another step of culture shock for me if I were
21 to live in an even more rural setting where I was up in the
22 mountains and there weren't any street lights, or I was
23 having to depend on propane and, you know, the weather
24 cooperating and all those other things. And I think that as
25 the development grows out, that it has an attraction there to
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1 other people coming out there. I think that ' s the smaller
2 piece of the puzzle, though.
3 The economic exposure for me truly is that we've
4 got a development out there that -- and we've got some
5 indebtedness that our tax money is servicing right now. And
6 if we can get the development built out, then the debt that's
7 out there and any additional debt for build out of
8 infrastructure is easier to handle over a larger number of
9 people, especially since a lot of that debt that ' s sitting
10 out there is for services that a large number of people can
11 take advantage of. For example, the water tanks you guys
12 were talking about earlier, the work that' s been done on the
13 lake. Obviously, that doesn't apply to the roads that have
14 to be built out, the additional electrical that needs to be
15 run.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions for Mr. Madison?
17 Commissioner Jerke?
18 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Just a couple of questions.
19 We've heard it described that there are two different
20 Metropolitan Districts?
21 MR. MADISON: Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER JERKE: That's accurate?
23 MR. MADISON: Yes.
24 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And which one do you serve on?
25 MR. MADISON: I serve on the First Metropolitan
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—
1 District and --
- 2 COMMISSIONER JERKE: And the function of that
3 District is?
4 MR. MADISON: I was afraid that I would get up
5 here, represent myself as being on the board of directors,
6 and then you guys would ask me questions as to how it ' s all
— 7 set up. I am not prepared, unfortunately, to answer that,
8 and my appointment to the position was fairly recent. And I
9 haven't had the opportunity to get with some of the people
10 who are more knowledgeable in the District to kind of debrief
11 with them and come up to speed on how it is structured.
— 12 COMMISSIONER JERKE: You mentioned the word
13 "appointed. " How were you appointed to the District?
—
14 MR. MADISON: I was appointed by the other board
15 members and nominated -- I believe nominations were taken
16 from the other residents of Pelican Lake, and then the board
— 17 members appointed the position, I believe is how it worked.
18 COMMISSIONER JERKE: I 'm aware that Water
19 Conservancy Districts do that. Then they actually have
20 judges do the appointing, but that is unique in my mind that
21 they would self-appoint. I guess there' s a Hospital District
— 22 that does that as well.
23 One final question, and I hate to ask this, but do
24 you have a financial interest in REI?
25 MR. MADISON: I absolutely do not.
Hello