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Home My WebLink About20043479.tiff Agren • Blase Core Retorting Cr Video, Inc. - Transcript, f a ACTION OF BOARD CONCERNING SUBSTANCIAL CHANGE 25 REGARDING USE BY SPECIAL REVIEW i $0441004..,,P, - MARCELLE GEUDNER, C/O JESS ARAGON trf . • E. WELD COUNTY HEARING: 2004-91 PL 1684 t 10/20/2004 1 ' 20( vs'N/ fJ —Acc), -H / L=7 -43 -06/ 5-L • Denver (303)296-0017 • Boulder (303)443-0433 ' • Colorado Springs (719)635-8328 • Greeley (970)356-3306 Cho Py 1 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, next on the docket will be 2 2004-91 PL1684 . 3 MR. MORRISON: Mr. Chairman -- Mr. Chairman, Docket 4 number 2004-91 is the application of Marcelle Geudner, c/o 5 Jess Aragon for a substantial change. The issue is whether 6 there has been a substantial change in the facts and 7 circumstances regarding the application for Use by Special B Review number 1430, which was denied by the Board of County 9 Commissioners on October 1st, 2003 . If a finding is made 10 by the Board that a substantial change in the facts and 11 circumstances exists, then the applicant will be allowed to 12 apply for a new Use by Special Review permit. The legal 13 description is the northeast quarter of Section B, Township 14 5 North, Range 67 West of the 6th P.M. , Weld County, 15 Colorado. Notice was published on October 6th, 2004, in 16 the Fort Lupton Press and notice is posted and evidence of 17 the posting has been provided by staff. 18 CHAIR MASDEN: Thanks, counselor. 19 Good morning, Sheri . �- 20 MS . LOCKMAN: Good morning, gentlemen. 21 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Before we proceed, Mr. Chairman, 22 I wonder if we could ask this gentleman here if he ' s 23 prepared and ready to go? 24 CHAIR MASDEN: Have you got everything ready to go? 25 MALE: One second, sir. I need you to state your name arnoL /a l3- zcay PL/&B`I 2 1 for the record. 2 MS. LOCKMAN: Sheri Lockman. 3 MALE: Okay, one second and we ' ll get going here. 4 Okay Sheri good, we ' re good, okay. 5 MS . LOCKMAN: Alright. Sheri Lockman, Department of 6 Planning Services . Marcelle Geudner, c/o Jess Aragon, has 7 applied for a Special Review Permit, or I 'm sorry, has 8 applied for a review of a previously denied application for 9 land use and a request for a substantial change in 10 determination. The sign announcing the Board of County 11 Commissioner' s hearing was posted October 8th, 2004 . The 12 site is located 753 feet west of County Road 17 and 13 one-half mile north of State Highway 34 . The Town of 14 Windsor and the City of Greeley are within the three-mile 15 referral area. The Weld County Board of County 16 Commissioners Resolution recorded October 17, 2003, denied 17 USR 1430 for a landscape materials yard. Today' s 18 proceeding is not to rehear the original USR, but rather to 19 determine if the applicant has met the criteria established 20 to verify if a substantial change has occurred in order to 21 reapply. 22 Pursuant to Chapter 2, Article II, Section 2-3-10 23 of the Weld County Code, the Commissioners shall consider 24 the applicant ' s request for a hearing of substantial change 25 and whether within the concept of a new application, the AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 3 1 facts and circumstances are substantially changed from the 2 initial application. The four criteria are: number one, 3 "Has the land-use application substantially changed?" 4 Criteria two, "Have the surrounding land uses substantially 5 changed?" Three, "Have the applicable provisions of the law 6 substantially changed?" The applicants have not used this 7 criteria to establish a substantial change. And criteria 8 four, "Within the concept of rehearing the previously 9 denied application, is there newly discovered evidence that 10 the applicant could not have discovered with diligent 11 effort at the time of the original application?" 12 The Weld County Planning Commission has determined — 13 that the submitted information does meet the intent of a 14 substantial change and are recommending approval of the 15 application. 16 Criteria 1 : "Is the land-use application 17 substantially changed?" The denial of Use by Special 18 Review 1430 was, in part, based on incompatibilities 19 specific to traffic, dust, noise and the visual aspects of 20 the site. The applicants have included additional 21 screening and landscaping to mitigate the visual impact to 22 the surrounding properties . Dust mitigation will be 23 accomplished by applying magnesium chloride to the access 24 road and gravel or crushed concrete to the parking areas 25 and on bare areas in the site. Further, the site plan has AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 4 1 been altered to lessen the impact from dust for the 2 residences to the west. 3 The applicants have also requested Criteria 2 and 4 4 be used as evidence of substantial change. Criteria 2 is 5 "Have the surrounding land-uses substantially changed?" 6 The application indicates two surrounding land uses have 7 substantially changed. Cozy Cow Dairy to the east of the 8 site and SouthGate III Commercial Annexation to the south 9 of the site. 10 Criteria 4, "Within the context of rehearing the 11 previously denied application, is there newly discovered 12 evidence that the applicant could not have discovered with 13 diligent effort at the time of the original application?" 14 The application included the SouthGate III 15 Commercial Annexation and plans for retail sales and Cozy 16 Cow Dairy as newly discovered evidence. The applicants 17 have also submitted a copy of the new Intergovernmental 18 Agreement between the Towns of Windsor and Greeley. I did 19 hand that out to you before the hearing. The agreement 20 indicates the TimberRock site lies within the secondary 21 corridor area, which according to the agreement, allows for 22 residential, retail, restaurant, neighborhood-commercial 23 and other institutional uses . 24 Because of the conflicting information submitted 25 from the Town of Windsor ' s referral and the AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING &VIDEO '- DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 5 1 Intergovernmental Agreement, I spoke to Scott Ballstadt, a 2 planner with the Town of Windsor, this morning. He 3 indicated that they would review commercial uses in this 4 area on a case-by-case basis since the site lies outside of ^ 5 the principal employment corridor depicted in their 6 Comprehensive Plan, but within the secondary corridor of 7 the Windsor/Greeley Intergovernmental Agreement. 8 The applicants have also submitted a traffic count 9 and trip generation comparison done by Matthew Delich, 10 Traffic and Transportation Engineering. I do have some 11 photographs of the site that you can go through. Okay, 12 this is looking to the west down the access road, You can 13 see the site, that is one of their trucks that was parked 14 on the road the day we took the pictures . This is on the 15 east side of the site and you can see the fencing goes back 16 a ways . That is the access from the road um, you can see 17 their landscaping they've added. That' s another picture of 18 the access . These are some sheds that they have put along 19 the west side inside their fencing. This is the metal 20 building that is in the northwest corner of the site where 21 the bathrooms will be located. That' s just the sign 22 posting at the northeast corner of the site. This is along 23 the east side again. Their sign at the entrance. This is 24 the properties to the north, northwest. This is their 25 fencing inside the site along the west side . I believe AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING &VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 6 1 that is along the east side, inside the site . This is 2 outside of the side along the Weinmeister ' s property, um 3 that is the fencing they've put up. And this is the access 4 road looking in the opposite direction toward the east. 5 That is the Stop sign at the County Road and the access 6 road to the site. This is along the south side of the 7 site, and that ' s also the south side. And that' s it . 8 The applicants are present and I would be happy to 9 take any questions you have . �— 10 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, Commissioner Geile? 11 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Sheri, when we heard this case 12 and when it was denied, I know we ' re hearing a substantial 13 change today, but I would like to kind of -- I would like 14 -- I know we ' re hearing a substantial change today but I 15 would like to make sure I understand what has happened 16 between the day of denial and where we are here today. One 17 of the -- one of the conditions was is that they would add 18 no more product onto this site for sale. There were 19 several other conditions, and maybe I could ask that of you — 20 or counsel . Have those conditions -- and then I think they 21 were actually to close it down on October 15th or there ' s 22 some magic date, I can' t remember, but, I would like for 23 somebody to perhaps rehearse exactly what those conditions 24 were and what has happened on that site as it relates to 25 those conditions that were put in place as far as what they AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 7 1 could do and what they couldn' t do and then also closing 2 the facility. 3 MR. MORRISON: This is Lee Morrison. First of 4 all, I 'm not sure what -- I mean, those are not issues that 5 are relevant to this determination, and I think it' s 6 important to separate, that is -- there is a violation 7 case, there is a stipulation in court -- 8 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And maybe, let me ask a question 9 in another way then, if I may, counsel . How do we separate 10 the two? 11 MR. MORRISON: Well, the issue is how this 12 proposal today relates to the original application. I 'm not 13 sure, I mean, the issues are really separate and apart. I 14 guess if you could describe for me what the conflict is, I 15 could maybe help you through that, but this -- we' re 16 looking at what in the application they' re proposing to do, 17 as far as submitting a new application, how that is 18 different from what was in the application you considered a 19 year ago. 20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, I ' ll have other things to 21 say later, I guess, counsel . 22 MR. MORRISON: Well, I really would caution you to 23 separate those two because a decision that' s based on the 24 other issues is not going to be sustainable. I mean, I '— 25 certainly think some background as to where that is, I 'd be AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 — 8 1 happy to address that, but I want to make it clear that 2 that should not be the basis for a decision, and if it 3 becomes to basis for decision, then I, you know, I think 4 that would make it difficult for your decision to be 5 upheld. Basically, what happened is an action for 6 injunctive relief was brought, a stipulation reached on the 7 day of preliminary hearing, which I can summarize as saying 8 they were to discontinue bringing new product in that would 9 be for resale from the date of that hearing or right after 10 that hearing, and then as of October 15th to cease all 11 activity. So, essentially, they could bring the material 12 out of the facility up until October 15th, but they weren' t 13 supposed to be bringing in new materials to be retailed 14 during that period this summer. 15 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay, then let me -- what I see 16 is a 200-some signature petition. The signatures were 17 obtained somewhere. Can we even question the validity of 18 those, of that petition, in view of what' s going on? 19 Because what this petition says, is actually saying, is 20 that they feel that this site -- well we can go back into 21 that later to make sure we understand the premise under 22 which the -- we could go in and establish the premise 23 whereby those petitions were received, or we can just say 24 that they don' t apply to this case, but I guess we ' ll need 25 to make a determination there. And the other thing, AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 9 1 counsel, if your advice to this Commission is what I just 2 heard, are we going to limit the testimony that comes 3 before us? 4 MR. MORRISON: Well, I think so, and I think that 5 was done to some extent at the Planning Commission. I 6 don' t think it was a big issue because those testifying 7 appeared to understand the distinctions. But not only -- 8 as an administrative body you also have the ability -- I 9 mean we don' t formally reject evidence frequently, but you 10 weigh it according to its relevance. And so evidence -- 11 evidence that indicates that is not relevant to your Po. 12 determination given that, you know, these are your rules 13 and you' re used to following them, I think, you know, you 14 have within your ability simply to ignore that which isn' t ^ 15 irrelevant, or weight things which, according to their 16 relevance . So, yes, I think there may be some, you know, I 17 think that ' s important and this maybe will help people 18 recognize that the testimony that they present deals with 19 the change and not concerns about whether the stipulation 20 has been met in the last three months. 21 CHAIR MASDEN: Commissioner Jerke? 22 COMMISSIONER JERKE: How do we measure, with respect 23 to substantial change, changes that may have been done to 24 the property over the last twelve months that would have 25 been done potentially without any permit from the County AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO �' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 10 1 with respect to a USR to actually operate? Can we go ahead 2 and consider those changes that may have been done to the 3 property as portion of the substantial change? 4 MR. MORRISON: I 've had conversations with the 5 applicant and the counsel for the applicant and they 6 understand that any changes they made to the property in 7 the last twelve months are at their own risk. They will -- 8 they may testify as to their reasons for doing those 9 changes, but they understand that if they're successful �- 10 here, even if they' re successful with the final USR, you 11 may not agree with the changes and adopt those. However, I 12 think they will -- you can consider it as an example of ^ 13 what they intend to do differently than they did in the 14 original application, but you' re not bound by those in the 15 event you approve a substantial change and get to the USR, 16 you could still require things different than what they've 17 done. But it is evidence of a change potentially. 18 CHAIR MASDEN: And counselor, on that evidence of 19 change, that burden is upon the applicant, right, to 20 display that? Or -- 21 MR. MORRISON: Certainly. 22 CHAIR MASDEN: Because that ' s to go along with 23 Commissioner Jerke ' s question. How do we figure that, or 24 look at that, and so that burden is upon them. Okay, 25 Commissioner Vaad? AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 .. 11 1 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yeah, Counselor, could I have the 2 reference to this section of the -- I don' t know if it ' s in 3 the land use regulations that list the four items that we 4 need to consider for determining substantial change. 5 MR. MORRISON: Yeah, actually it' s in the 6 administrative code under Chapter 2, Article 3 . Let' s see 7 -- 8 MS. LOCKMAN: Section 2-3-10 . Section 2, Article 2, 9 Section 2-3-10 . 10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: 3-10? 11 MR. MORRISON: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you. 13 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, any other comments or 14 questions? 15 Okay, is the applicant or a representative for 16 the applicant here this morning? Come to the lectern and 17 give your name and address please? 18 MR. ZIER: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, my name 19 is Rick Zier, it' s spelled Z-I-E-R, and I 'm an attorney in 20 Fort Collins representing the applicant. My offices are 21 located at 322 East Oak Street in Fort Collins. I might 22 start with following up on Mr. Morrison' s comments . First 23 of all, he has been very clear with us throughout, and we 24 have had a very clear understanding that anything that is 25 done to the property in furtherance of the business use, if AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO �' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 12 1 there should not be an ultimate approval by the Board, 2 would be done at our peril if they are not something that 3 is approved by the County. So we have understood that and 4 I don' t want to create the impression otherwise. 5 There are a number of reasons why the applicant 6 has done, since last October, what he has done. He will be 7 speaking in just a moment and explain that, but it has 8 primarily to do with the fact that there were statements 9 and allegations made last October in the Commissioner' s 10 hearing that were not true, that could only be demonstrated 11 as not being true by the doing of certain things he 12 thought. And so he undertook to show physically that what 13 he said he would do, he would do, that he listened to the 14 legitimate concerns of the neighborhood, took those to 15 heart, and means very seriously to mitigate them beyond 16 what your design standards call for. The proof is in the 17 pudding. The mitigation largely now exists and can be 18 assessed. I understand that is not the purpose of this 19 hearing, but he is good to his word and we will go through 20 pretty much line item by line item the changes that we are 21 now presenting as part of a new application, or would 22 present as far as a new application, if permitted today to 23 do so. 24 With regard to the lawsuit, the substantial change 25 application, the applicant was told that if the substantial is AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 13 1 change application were filed, that business operations 2 could occur. He had difficulty finding an attorney to do 3 that. I can attest to that because he contacted me in 4 February of this year and I could not take it with my work 5 load at the time. He came back in May, having been to 6 four or five other attorneys, both in Weld and Larimer 7 Counties who do land use . There have been conflicts, there 8 have been problems . He had actually engaged one or two 9 other attorneys and gotten into it and then conflicts were 10 found. He did in good faith make those efforts and when he 11 came back to me, he -- I did take this matter and we 12 diligently and immediately filed for the substantial change 13 application, tried to discuss with the staff whatever was 14 needed, discussed with Windsor whatever their plans for the ^ 15 future were and so forth. Mr. Morrison met with us, and 16 again I would stress that he made clear that whatever is r 17 done and has been done out there is at our risk until the 18 approvals come in. But, we have understood that and that 19 is what has occurred. Another attorney is representing the 20 applicant in the lawsuit matter. Because the substantial 21 change application had been filed, there was an agreement 22 with the County entered into. I have a copy of it if you'd _. 23 like it. Basically, it is as Mr. Morrison summarized, we 24 were not to bring in new material; that has not occurred. — 25 We were not to operate after October 15th; that has not AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 14 1 occurred. We were -- the people were still able to come 2 and get material that was on the site as of the 3 stipulation, petitions were gathered during that time and 4 they are presented -- were presented at the Planning 5 Commission. We have further signatures to present tonight, 6 or today, so in a nutshell that ' s what it is . But there is 7 one count of the court stipulation that the existence of 8 the lawsuit is not to have a bearing on the decision on the 9 substantial change, so we are prepared today as we were at 10 the Planning Commission to talk about the changes that 11 we've made, the things that are different in the facts and 12 circumstances of the surrounding area that have come to 13 light since October when the applicant was before you, and 14 that ' s what I 'd like to direct our comments to. Sheri has 15 pretty much stolen my thunder, but I did want to just say 16 in general we do believe that there have been substantial 17 changes in the application ,dramatic changes in the 18 application, geared to the issues of visual, noise, and 19 dust and traffic safety that were the hallmark of the 20 Board' s hearing the last time. They have been carefully 21 looked at by us and by experts, and mitigation has been 22 employed that we think more than adequately addresses the 23 reasonable concerns of neighbors . I don' t think it is an 24 applicant' s obligation to address extreme concerns and 25 extreme attitudes if those exist. We have to weigh these AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO �' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 15 1 things very evenly and look at them in the surrounding ^ 2 context and also in the history of Weld County' s approval 3 of USRs to these like uses in the ag zone, because the ag 4 zone does permit them by special review because of the 5 unique similarities between this sort of business and ag 6 uses, particularly with regard to stockpiling of materials 7 and the kinds of equipment used, trucks and loaders and so 8 forth, such as are used next door on the twelve-acre dairy, 9 so that is the context within which we want to address this 10 morning' s comments . 11 The other area that we have said that there are 12 changes and new facts and circumstances are with regard to 13 the surrounding land uses . The dairy now has a retail 14 component that it did not have in October that is similar 15 to the retail component of this use. That' s immediately 16 next door and on a larger piece of property. There was a 17 five-acre parcel immediately to the southeast that had been 18 a retail sod farm, was classified as commercial in the 19 County Assessor' s Office . All of the area around it to the 20 south down to 34, was classified as agricultural . Now, and 21 shortly after the hearing in October of that same month 22 last fall, major splashy announcements of auto malls and 23 other commercial development that are now the subject of a 24 formal, signed, recorded Intergovernmental Agreement 25 between the Town of Windsor and the City of Greeley having AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 16 1 to do with joint sharing of road improvements on 17 with 2 the designated land uses and so forth. So now we have 3 designated immediately south the next commercial from the 4 property line -- the south property line of this five-acre 5 parcel all the way to Highway 34 . That is newly discovered 6 evidence and certainly bears on the issues . So with that, 7 I 'd like to turn it over to Cindy Rubiano to talk a little 8 more at length with -- about the IGA. Commissioner? 9 CHAIR MASDEN: Commissioner Geile? 10 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, I would first of all like to 11 determine if -- I 'd like to ask you some questions about 12 the petition. 13 MR. ZIER: Yes sir. 14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Where was the petition passed? 15 MR. ZIER: The petitions were available at the 16 site. 17 COMMISSIONER GEILE: So the people who came on to the 18 site signed these petitions? 19 MR. ZIER: Correct. 20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And that' s the only place that 21 they were made available? 22 CHAIR MASDEN: We can' t -- 23 You' re going to have to get up here 24 and give your name and address if you' re going to speak 25 from there. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 17 1 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well let me get all the questions ._ 2 out. 3 MR. ZIER: Okay, I didn' t pass the petition, so. 4 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And they I, for you counsel, I 5 want to make sure that I have an understanding as to how -- 6 when you pass a petition if they' re passed at a certain ^ 7 place, on a certain date. And I see no dates involved here 8 as to when these petitions were passed. That ' s number one. 9 Number two is how the petition was represented. I 'm trying 10 to figure out how the wording here relates to what we have 11 in force today before us today -- as your representation of 12 a substantial change. 13 So let me read the wording that I see here on the 14 petition. It says "We as Weld County residents want to 15 petition the Board of County Commissioners to reconsider 16 and approve TimberRock Landscape Supply at its current 17 location at 28629 Weld County Road 17, Windsor, Colorado 18 80550 . We do not find TimberRock to be a -- detriment to 19 the adjacent properties and wish to relay to the 20 Commissioners that TimberRock actually performs a great 21 service to Weld County residents and businesses . The 22 landscape yard is very well kept and its owners have been 23 sensitive to the surrounding neighbors by providing 24 fencing, screening, landscaping and road improvements . " 25 How does that apply? I wonder if you could give me your AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 18 1 legal position as to how that actually applies to what 2 we' re hearing today on substantial change? To me it ' s -- 3 well, maybe you could address it. 4 MR. ZIER: Okay, I think not knowing what is in 5 the heads of the Commissioners at the time votes are made, 6 we have to go on statements that are made by the 7 Commissioners during the hearing and the minutes later, and 8 the written findings and resolution of the Board. The 9 applicant did that, and in making that petition available, 10 and I don' t think there was a lot of further discussion 11 with people about that, I can to let Mr. Aragon talk about .. 12 that, because it was also taken around to the neighborhood 13 to the north, TimberRock I 'm sorry, Windsong Ranch. But 14 the points and issues that we feel there is substantial 15 change about, the majority of this Board felt that there 16 was not sufficient mitigation and protection. 17 MR. MASDEN: Counselor, I wonder if we can stay 18 focused on this, on this petition. How does this relate to 19 substantial change? 20 MR. ZIER: I 'm trying to answer the question. 21 Because the petition wording you just read says that, "we 22 the signers of the petition believe that what TimberRock 23 has now done does adequately protect the interests of the 24 neighbors with regard to dust" and the things that are 25 listed. It also asks for your reconsideration. It was not AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO ^ DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 — 19 1 a petition that was passed prior to the prior hearing in 2 October in other words . It was an effort to address that it 3 is the opinion of a lot of people who come to that site and 4 view it, that adequate mitigation of dust and the other 5 things that were of concern to the Board, that are the 6 subject of tonight' s -- or today' s hearing with regard to 7 substantial change, have been adequately mitigated. And 8 that is a substantial change because the majority of the 9 Board felt that they were not in the prior plan. 10 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I haD a couple of other 11 questions . Your point about, I believe that there has been 12 a significant commercial, I guess -- the auto mall out on _ 13 17 -- the Martin Lind property, I think is what it' s called 14 and all that, also represents a substantial change. And I 15 guess my question is, when we heard the case there were 16 referrals by both the City of Greeley and the Town of 17 Windsor and those -- this was not something that was hidden 18 or just had been announced in the recent future and was 19 certainly in my -- how do you feel that they would have 20 made their referrals and their comments without the 21 knowledge of that moving ahead, and then also the agreement 22 that Windsor and Greeley developed and has now been 23 finalized was pretty well known at that time by those two 24 jurisdictions, so when they made their referrals back to 25 this body concerning the hearing that we had in front of - AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO '� DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 20 1 us, and all of the evidence that we had in front of us, are 2 you saying that that was not considered at all in their 3 referral and is now new evidence? 4 MR. ZIER: I have no way of speaking for them, 5 sir. I don' t know what they knew on October 1st as far as 6 the Intergovernmental Agreement goes . I don' t know about 7 the timing of the news releases, but we didn' t know about 8 this at the time of the October 1st hearing, and there are 9 good reasons why land owners who are in negotiation will 10 keep those things confidential, so all I can tell you is 11 that we had had numerous contacts with Windsor, 12 particularly, and we didn' t know about it. I don' t know 13 whether it ' s true or not that as of last -- early last 14 October if the Intergovernmental Agreement was common 15 currency in the town. One would think if it were, since 16 that would be -- well, actually, that' s not necessarily 17 public knowledge either. But if that were the case, I 18 can' t explain why the County and we were not advised of it. 19 I 'm sorry. 20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you. 21 CHAIR MASDEN: Other questions? Commissioner Long? 22 COMMISSIONER LONG: I had a question for Lee, our 23 counsel . In looking at the four items that we have used 24 for criteria for judging a substantial change, in hearing 25 from counsel for the applicant stating that there have been AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 21 1 physical, internal changes to try and remedy some of the ._ 2 concerns, but they're more oriented towards, in my mind, 3 rectifying or remedying violations of the existing USR kind 4 of thing, you know like, they're talking about, they' re 5 going to present evidence of things they had done 6 internally as far as fencing and dust mitigation within the ._ 7 site itself. Does -- I 'm not seeing, for me, the linkage 8 between that kind of testimony and the four items that 9 we ' re supposed to use as criteria in judging whether this 10 is a substantial change or not. As I look through them, 11 I 'm not seeing that linkage. Please correct me if I 'm 12 missing something. r 13 MR. MORRISON: I -- they could have chosen not to make 14 any changes physically on the property and submitted the 15 changes on paper only to demonstrate what they would do 16 differently in a new application. They chose to make some 17 of those changes not on paper -- well, on paper and 18 physically on the property. There is no USR, there was no 19 approval . They chose to demonstrate how ` 20 they would do things differently if they gain approval and 21 if you accept those changes, actually, in a concrete 22 fashion. So I do think, again, at their own risk. So, I 23 do think it fits within -- at least with - - it ' s evidence 24 worth considering on your part that the new application is 25 substantially different than the one previously denied. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 22 1 COMMISSIONER LONG: Under the criteria number one? 2 Would that fit under there? Under your -- 3 MR. MORRISON: Yeah, it ' s -- and it also makes note 4 that it addresses those identified in the Board's denial as 5 well, so I think that' s correct. 6 COMMISSIONER LONG: Okay. Thank you. 7 CHAIR MASDEN: Any other questions? Mr. Zier, you had B spoken earlier about things that were said during the first 9 hearing and I want you to clarify that for me. I didn' t 10 totally understand. You said that these things were not 11 done -- or were you saying, bringing in additional material 12 after October 15th and conducting business were not done? 13 Or they were done? 14 MR. ZIER: The date to not do that was the date of 15 the stipulation, and I was not part of that so maybe Mr. 16 Morrison is the one that -- but I have a copy of it here 17 and it' s dated about July 1st of this year. No further 18 material has been brought in since that time, the business 19 has been wound down, the business is not operated from the 20 site now. It' s been complied with, anything that was 21 brought in after that was material or materials that had 22 gone into the site itself, and are not part of the sales 23 for the business . So if a neighbor saw something going in 24 there, none of that -- that was gravel or it was rock or it 25 was building materials were projects that were still going AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 23 1 on at the site to help mitigate these issues . We have not t 2 done anything in violation of that stipulation, we were 3 very careful about that. 4 MR. MORRISON: Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. Zier' s 5 original comment was relative to the land use hearing, and 6 I think it related to this issue of doing physical work. 7 Does that -- 8 CHAIR MASDEN: And that ' s what my question was . 9 MR. MORRISON: Yeah, that' s what your -- your 10 question is -- 11 CHAIR MASDEN: Because it sounded like it was to the 12 original hearing, and what we had specified on the original 13 hearing, and you said things that that had not happened. 14 And that ' s why I was wanting to clarify. — 15 MR. ZIER: Yeah, I guess, I 'm a little confused by 16 the question, so I 'm sorry if I caused confusion in your 17 mind. What I think I meant to say, and what your ' re 18 talking about is, the grounds for substantial change 19 consideration include that there are substantial changes to 20 the application, we clearly think the internal and other 21 changes that we have made bear on that count about changes 22 in the application that address matters that were the main 23 issues before the Board in its decision in the prior 24 setting, so last October, the Board said visual, noise, 25 dust, and traffic safety were the issues that this kind of AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 24 1 centered on. At least -- again I wasn' t there, you were. 2 But the minutes and the findings and resolutions of the 3 Board were pretty clear about that. We listened to what 4 the neighbors had to say, we talked to consultants and 5 staff and have revised very dramatically, we think, the 6 needs of mitigation that are now offered and many of which 7 have been done so we can show you their efficacy and show 8 you also his good faith because that was another issue that 9 was one of the grounds in findings and resolution was there 10 was doubt about Mr. Aragon' s willingness to follow through 11 or his credibility in those issues, so that' s how he chose 12 to address it and so the principle evidence for us today is 13 the difference between the prior, pretty skimpy, 14 application with regard to mitigation, and what we think is 15 an extensive addressing of legitimate, reasonable concerns 16 of the neighborhood, but reasonably addressed, we think, 17 and in excess of what the design standards of the County 18 call for. So if there are any further questions, Ms. 19 Rubiano. 20 CHAIR MASDEN: Can I -- wait one minute? I missed a 21 step there. 22 Did anyone have any questions for .r 23 staff or did you have anything, Sheri or Char on this? 24 MS . DAVIS: Char Davis, Weld County Health 25 Department. Not really, not with the substantial change. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING & VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 25 1 If you have anything, I 'd be glad to answer questions . 2 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, any questions of Char? Okay. 3 Don, do you have anything from Public Works? 4 MR. CARROLL: Don Carroll, Weld County Public 5 Works . I do have Keith Meyers here with me today, our 6 engineering division manager, to speak to you, the traffic V 7 study that was supplied to us yesterday. Two items, just 8 reminding the Board that the access to the site is an 9 easement, it is a private easement, it ' s not maintained by 10 the County. In the significant change in the examples in 11 your packet on page 21 and 22, we ' re showing pictures of 12 dust suppressant chemical being placed. Also, there' s 13 pictures in there of additional base being added to the 14 private easement for the access . I 'd like to have Keith — 15 talk about the traffic study that was provided to us 16 yesterday. A. 17 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, thank you. Good morning, 18 Keith. 19 MR. MEYERS : Commissioners, Keith Meyers, Public 20 Works . There ' s some fairly detailed information contained 21 in this traffic study and, if the Commissioners would like, 22 I can review that with you. In the interest of time it 23 might be best, if questions come up that we address those 24 at that time, if you're interested. 25 CHAIR MASDEN: All right, does anyone want to have AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 — 26 1 him explain it, or just wait until questions come up? Any 2 questions for Keith now? Okay. 3 MR. ZIER: Mr. Chairman, I 've got extra copies 4 of that. Has the Board seen that? The Matt Delich traffic 5 report? They have. And I didn' t, in the reviewing agency' s 6 comments, I didn' t find much having to do with substantial 7 change, frankly. 8 Most of the comments that have come in have dealt 9 with USR issues as if it' s going forward, so if we get to — 10 that point I think it would be a little more germane. 11 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Any further questions of staff 12 or Mr. Zier? All right. 13 MR. MEYERS : If I might add that the traffic study 14 that it was, some of that was newly discovered evidence 15 because one of the neighbors, one of the objecting 16 neighbors, had submitted to the County , traffic counts 17 this summer that were down during the busy time of the 18 business of summer that we just got kind of indirectly. So 19 the traffic, though they are not verified by us, we simply 20 took them to heart and used them, and that ' s -- along with 21 the counts that the traffic engineer performed himself, 22 that was what he based his opinions on, so thank you. 23 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, thank you. Mr. Zier, were you 24 going to have the applicant, or somebody from the applicant 25 representing the applicant speak now? AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 _ 27 1 MR. ZIER: Yes, we ' re supposed to have Ms . Rubiano 2 and Jess Aragon. 3 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. All right. 4 MR. ZIER: That concludes our [inaudible] . 5 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, thank you. 6 MS. RUBIANO: My name is Cindy Rubiano. I reside 7 at 1401 Stanford Drive in Ft. Collins, Colorado, 80526 . I 8 am the significant-other to Jess Aragon, and my parents 9 Paul and Marcelle Geudner are the owners of this property. 10 I guess I 'm here to speak to what I feel is a substantial 11 change in adjacent land uses or future adjacent land uses . 12 Last October when we went into the town of Windsor 13 and asked if any commercial projects were pending or 14 planned for any of the areas around us, we were told that 15 there were no merchant projects slated for any adjacent 16 land uses . Thirty days after we were denied, there was a 17 massive campaign in many newspapers stating that an 18 auto-mall was going to be going in directly to the south of 19 our site. I collected all of those newspaper articles and 20 that is when we started talking about coming in and getting 21 a substantial change project going. I had no way of 22 knowing that Windsor and Greeley were working together on 23 an agreement that would count the property that we occupy 24 in -- as a new land use, or a potential new land use . I 25 had no idea of what they' re now terming "principle AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 28 1 employment corridor" because that was never mentioned 2 before when we had talked with Windsor. Now, the first 3 thing that we noticed after we were denied last October was 4 a banner going up in the property right next to us to the 5 south, and prime commercial real estate, and a phone 6 number. So I called to find out what was going on there, 7 and I heard that there was a contract on sixty acres to 8 build a mega auto-mall by Champion Auto Group, and that the 9 developer of that property was going to annex to Windsor. 10 There were some problems with that because Greeley, I 11 guess, owned Weld County Road 17 . Hence, the reason that 12 they came up with this Intergovernment Agreement. This is 13 now, this yellow line here and here, is now a solid metal 14 fence that we have put in to screen all of our materials ^ 15 from 34 . So here on 34 if you look to the north you can' t 16 see any of our materials . They' re screened entirely behind 17 that fence. 18 As far as the Iintergovernment Agreement goes, I was 19 provided this map now by Windsor. The areas in blue are 20 going to be considered principle corridor, employment 21 corridor, and they have a lot of land uses in that piece of 22 paper that I just handed out, that they say are allowed 23 land uses . In this orange area which is where the Timber 24 [inaudible] is located, right here, that is what they have 25 termed secondary corridor area. And if you look -- I think AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 29 1 it' s on, its in there somewhere, that allowed land uses may 2 be retail, commercial, residential, restaurant, all of 3 those types of commercial uses. So now before, where we 4 were in high density residential, now they' re going to .- 5 include some other allowed land uses in those properties, 6 which I think, it ' s my opinion, that we fit in with retail 7 and commercial . We are not a wholesale yard. We sell to 8 retail customers . I might be wrong about that, but this is 9 new information as far as we knew as of last October. 10 This is -- also something that was provided to me by 11 Windsor, it shows Weld County Road 17, this is the south 12 portion of the TimberRock property. The Warden [phonetic] 13 Dairy is here, and their little retail store is right off 14 17 . This is where the autoplex is going to go. And then 15 they have a convenience store/gas station planned for this 16 area, and then commercial for the rest but they don' t have 17 me proposed tenants for those properties yet. I 'm not an 18 expert in those agreements, so if you have any questions, I 19 might be able to answer them, I might not. 20 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, questions? 21 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Yeah, if 22 I may, the question I have is, what you' re saying is this 23 is new information. My question is, was the information 24 available prior to this, and the fact that you just didn' t 25 go ask the questions and seek out the information? My AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 30 1 question is: is this really new information or is this old 2 information, the old information being that you just didn' t 3 check it out and didn' t find it and bring it forward? 4 Because these discussions have been going on for some time. 5 The plans of the auto group have been there for some time, 6 and I 'm just trying to figure out what' s -- 7 MS. RUBIANO: Well, there was a letter included 8 in our first packet by Martin Lind [phonetic] and he stated 9 in that letter that he had no commercial uses planned for 10 that property. So we had to take that letter at its word. 11 He said there are no commercial plans slated for that area. 12 Then I also asked Windsor up until the October hearing if 13 there was anything going on there commercially. I was 14 told, "no. " And then 30 days after our denial, this came 15 out and more and more came out and newspaper articles and 16 now this is, you know, a document that' s recorded in Weld 17 County that we were not privy to and I did ask for all that 18 information. 19 CHAIR MASDEN: Thank you. Any other questions? All 20 right. Thank you. 21 MS. RUBIANO: That' s it? Okay. 22 MR. ARAGON: Good morning gentlemen. I 'm Jess 23 Aragon, 28629 Weld County Road 17, Windsor, 80550 . Let me 24 get organized here. Initially, last October I was before 25 this commission requesting a USR to operate my business, AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 31 1 TimberRock Landscape Center. The application was denied on 2 the basis of, in my opinion, information that was false and 3 erroneous, and I had no way of refuting that testimony at 4 the time of the application of that hearing. I 'm here 5 today to submit to you what I feel are substantial changes 6 to the land use plan that we submitted, as well as things 7 that we have done to mitigate circumstances that I felt 8 were real and genuine concerns of the neighborhood and 9 surrounding community of where we occupy five acres known �— 10 as TimberRock. 11 I was really taken aback at the end of the hearing 12 with respect to comments made by the County Commissioners, 13 of my integrity, or lack thereof, with respect to the 14 design -- meeting the design standards, of complying with 15 the rules and regulations set forth, and in general, doing 16 things the right way, which I had set forth to do from day 17 one. So with that in mind, I had asked Ms . Lockman, "Was 18 there any way of refuting this with the outcome of this 19 hearing?" She said to her knowledge, "There was no way of 20 coming back in and asking for this to be heard again. You 21 need to re- apply" was her comment. Later I found out that 22 there was a five-day window or short window where I could 23 have petitioned the Board to have you re-hear the contents 24 of the application based on some new information or — 25 refuting negative or damaging testimony that was false. At AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 32 1 that point, I was forced to try to figure out what the next 2 moves were going to be because I had no idea. This is my — 3 first time with doing this . I am not a developer. I am an 4 entrepreneur, I 'm a sole proprietor. I started with zero 5 dollars, I started with a pickup truck and an idea. So I 6 am not , this is all new to me. I 've tried to wade through 7 this the best I can and from what I 'm seeing, people that 8 have knowledge in this area have difficulty with it, as 9 well . So, me as a layman, I definitely was ham-strung by 10 this process from the very beginning. 11 I have done a lot of things to mitigate the 12 circumstances . Initially, at the last hearing, things were 13 made -- statements were made with respect to compatibility 14 with the surrounding area. This is a rural area, this is 15 not a neighborhood, per , as we would see in a community 16 such as Greeley or Windsor or any of the other 17 neighborhoods. This is not -- when people say 18 neighborhood, I think it' s important to realize that we ' re 19 talking about distances between properties, and 20 considerable distances . This is still a rural area at this 21 point. Cindy made a good reference to the fact that Mr. 22 Lind submitted a letter in July of 2003, stating that he 23 had no plans for commercial development of any sort on his 24 property. And then now, a year later, he is an adamant 25 opposer saying that, "Jess Aragon, " you got the letter in AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING & VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 33 1 front of you that, "I 'm "conducting criminal activity and 2 that I 'm operating an illegal business" and I definitely 3 take issue with that statement because I 've done everything 4 in a legal fashion, I 've tried to get representation, I had 5 conflicts of interest with Martin Lind because he is 6 represented by every attorney in Weld County, it seems 7 like, and I finally found an attorney that was not involved 8 with Mr. Lind in one way or another. So that delayed my 9 ability to get back in here with the substantial change 10 application because I felt after -- what I went through 11 last fall, that I could not do it on my own without getting 12 some legal counsel and getting some help wading through the 13 difficulty of the process . I got that help and we 14 immediately embarked on a plan to mitigate circumstances 15 and submit a plan that was workable. One of the things 16 that came out was the letter from the County Attorney with 17 respect to submitting the substantial change package. The 18 information was coming, as Cindy has pointed out, 19 piece-mill . The process of the annexation was taking time 20 and we were having trouble compiling this information 21 quickly in order to get this package back to the commission 22 in a timely fashion, i .e. yesterday. I wanted to get it 23 back as quick as possible, and it was difficult gathering 24 all the information and putting it together in a way that 25 could be done quickly. But we did the best we could, and AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 34 1 we got it in there kind of under the wire. The County had 2 initiated the legal action against TimberRock, and the 3 stipulation was reached that we were allowed to continue to 4 operate until October 15th without bringing material in for 5 re-sale. For re-sale ! We were allowed to bring material 6 in for our own use, or our improvements that we -- 7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Mr. Chairman, if I may ask 8 counsel, are we here to rehash what' s in the Courts or are 9 we here to talk about the substantial change? 10 MR. MORRISON: Well, I think that' s a good point. 11 CHAIR MASDEN: Um-hum, Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Counsel, I wonder if maybe you 13 could help us. If I may, Mr. Chairman, I wonder if you 14 could kind of help us . Otherwise we ' re going to be here 15 all day listening to the issues of the case before the 16 courts . 17 CHAIR MASDEN: Well, why don' t we get a break real 18 quick. Let me make an announcement. I just received a 19 notice that there ' s a man with a rifle on top of the old 20 ice house in downtown Greeley. You' re encouraged to stay 21 away from the area of 11th Street and 6th Avenue. So, I 22 was just given this . Just to let everybody know. So that 23 -- what is that, two blocks from here? It' s the old ice 24 house in downtown at 11th Street and 6th Avenue . Is that 25 down here by the railroad tracks? Four or five blocks? AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO -' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 35 1 South and east of here four or five blocks, okay. It just 2 says that they -- Pat received word that there was a man 3 with a rifle on top of the old ice house downtown, so -- 4 and that was the address given. The area of 11th Street 5 and 6th Avenue. Did you say it' s four or five blocks 6 southeast? 7 [CROSS TALK] 8 MR. MORRISON: Yeah. 9 MR. MASDEN: Okay. All right. So if anybody 10 takes off, just be careful where you go. All right 11 counselor? 12 Yeah, can we stick to the -- I guess, 13 what, the substantial change evidence that we ' re supposed 14 to be reviewing for this case today. 15 MR. MORRISON: Yeah, I think if you suggest Mr. 16 Aragon move on past the stipulation issues -- 17 MR. MORRISON: Okay. I would appreciate that. 18 MR. ARAGON: Yes sir. I do apologize, I ' ll try to get 19 back -- 20 I think you have this initial 21 package of before you in in your computers, that is the 22 application. Am I correct in assuming that? Okay. We 23 have a follow-up to that, and I 'm going to pass that out to 24 you. I have a hard copy for each one of you. 25 MR. ZIER: Mr. Chairman, I have one to give to AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)6354328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 -� 36 1 anybody in opposition who would like to see it. 2 MR. ARAGON: Has everyone received a copy? 3 CHAIR MASDEN: Yes, I think everybody has . If you'd 4 continue, please. 5 MR. ARAGON: If you would like to set that aside 6 for the moment, I would like to refer to what ' s on your 7 computers, the initial application, and walk you through 8 that . I 'm sorry if I appear emotional about this, but I 9 take it very personally because it ' s my livelihood, it ' s 10 all I have and that ' s -- you know, this is why I 'm working 11 towards getting this. It means a lot to me, it means my 12 business, it means my future, and it ' s at stake. 13 We have already discussed the Intergovernmental 14 Agreement and with respect to -- I want to address Mr. 15 Geile ' s concerns regarding the petition. I think that may 16 be a good place to start, and I 'd like to tell you exactly 17 how that was compiled and for what reasons and how it was 18 handled. 19 Initially, we had a lot of folks who came to our 20 business and would say, "Well, this is really nice. I 'm 21 just wondering what the problem is and why are you having 22 this difficulty, why do you have to keep going through 23 these hearings?" and I said, "Well", I explained it to him 24 that, you know, we were denied the application and we were 25 trying to mitigate circumstances and take care of the AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING &VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 37 1 matter. • And they said, "well, is there anything that we 2 can do?" I thought, "Well, at this point. . . " I really 3 wasn' t sure what I could tell them what they could do and 4 then we decided that we would just compile a list of people 5 that felt the same way we do about our business and that 6 they felt it was a good fit with the area, and that they 7 didn' t see a problem with dust or noise or traffic because 8 they visited the site and that ' s been many cases, more than 9 once. Because we deal with homeowners and a lot of the 10 people have embarked on landscaping on their own, so then 11 they make multiple trips to our business to see what we 12 have, and then they decide, "Well, I want to put a 13 flagstone patio in so maybe I ' ll come out and take a look 14 at that and buy some flagstone . " So that was how this came 15 about, and they said, "Can we just sign our names to the 16 list?" and so we said, "yeah, we 'd like" -- we started 17 this . We just put it on our counter and we didn' t ask 18 anyone to please sign it, we would just -- had it on the 19 counter. They said, "What ' s going on here?" and we 20 explained to them that we were re-applying for a land use 21 permit to operate our business in this area and they agreed .. 22 to put their name, address and phone number and we weren' t 23 so informal about it, we didn' t really have any consultants 24 help us to design a format or anything like that. It was 25 pretty informal . But the importance of it is that these AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 38 1 people share our views and they understand that they feel ^ 2 we' re a good fit for the area, so I don' t think I need to 3 say anything more about that unless you have any questions 4 about that. — 5 With respect to the Windsong petition, however, we 6 felt that we needed to go out and talk to those people 7 because a lot of things, a lot of comments were made about 8 Windsong residents not -- with respect to compatibility 9 that it didn' t fit. Well, we went and talked to these 10 people and found out that most of them were in favor of our 11 operation. They said that, "We didn' t have a problem with 12 it. " So we said, "Would you be willing to sign your name to 13 that?" and we went around to each of the residents, and 14 there ' s about nineteen out there, I believe, and of those 15 nineteen, we got a significant portion to agree that, "We 16 don' t see this as a problem and we feel it is compatible 17 with this area, and we like what you've done as far as the 18 way you' re screening your property and making it fit in. " 19 So that ' s how that came about and that is how we compiled 20 that petition. We actually went to their homes and visited 21 with each homeowner. 22 May I have a glass of water? Is there any water _ 23 around? 24 Let ' s get right to the announcements here. With 25 respect to the auto-mall, we felt this was a significant AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 .. 39 1 change due to the fact that that area is going commercial 2 and it may not happen this year, but certainly will happen 3 sometime in our near future, and we feel it is a very 4 significant change due to the fact that it is a commercial -- 5 -- and it will create noise, and it will create traffic, 6 and a lot of changes to the area. Sweeping changes that 7 are -- I don' t think anyone realizes the magnitude of the 8 changes that are coming down the pike. We operate on five 9 acres . I 'm very limited in what I can -- how the business 10 can grow. So you' re seeing the scope of our operation. And 11 we compiled some different comments from different people 12 with respect to that. We feel that is a significant 13 change. At this point -- 14 CHAIR MASDEN: Continue . 15 MR. ARAGON: Okay. At this point, I just want to 16 point out that this was the initial site plan that was 17 submitted with the original USR. This is the site plan 18 that we are operating from at this point, and we 've learned 19 a few things since we first put the application together. 20 So, we wanted to show the green on this application 21 indicates foliage: trees, shrubs, landscaping. These two 22 blue portions represent water features that we would like 23 to install and we will install in the near future if we're 24 allowed to continue to operation. ^ 25 CHAIR MASDEN: Mr. Aragon, that ' s what your future AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 40 1 drawings are, right? That ' s not what you have presently? 2 MR. ARAGON: Most of it is present except for 3 these two ponds. 4 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Because that' s what I want to go 5 on, what you presently have. 6 MR. ARAGON: Yes sir. 7 MR. MORRISON: Except that what he presently has and 8 what he proposes in the -- put in the new application are 9 both relevant if the present has been changed from the -� 10 initial application. 11 CHAIR MASDEN: Well, that' s why I want to go on what _ 12 he presently has because that ' s what we ' re going on 13 substantial change, and not what his future substantial 14 change, right? 15 MR. MORRISON: No, it' s both. 16 CHAIR MASDEN: It' s both? Okay. 17 MR. ARAGON: Right now we ' re discussing the site 18 plans . This is the original site plan. This is the new 19 substantially changed site plan, and I won't belabor the 20 point, we ' ll move on. 21 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. 22 MR. ARAGON: In your packet on page eleven, we 23 noticed an article that came out in the Windsor Tribune and 24 we went to talk to Mr. Hardesty, who is the owner of the 25 Cozy Cow Dairy , and we knew he was planning a small retail, AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 41 1 but we did not know that at the time we applied. We found 2 this out later, as early as January of '04 . So, the fact 3 that he is running a retail lends itself to the fact that 4 we are operating retail at this time. Thank you. He has 5 visitors to his site, and we have visitors to our site. He 6 is there to educate the public on the operations and 7 workings of a dairy, and the making cheese and dairy B products . We also educate our consumers on landscaping, 9 xeriscaping, which is really relevant in this day and age .— 10 of lack of water and with the development taking place of 11 residential on the rise, it' s a real big issue. 12 On page fourteen of the packet, we are showing -- 13 basically just some shots of the dairy that show that, the 14 compatibility with our site versus their, it ' s natural, I 15 mean its--. 16 The auto-mall site on page fifteen, it joins us at 17 the south, at the south side of the USR. 18 Page sixteen we can disregard because 19 Mr. Weiler has made a lot of improvements to his property, ^- 20 and it looks great, and you can disregard these because it 21 does not exist in this fashion anymore. 22 On page nineteen, we show just how we propose to make 23 those front area landscaped better to fit in incompatible 24 with the surrounding uses, and also to screen aspects of 25 our operation, that may not be considered as visually AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 42 1 appealing. 2 We also did weed maintenance, which is a 3 substantial change from the USR. We feel that that' s 4 important and so we agreed that we want to do that, and 5 we've done that. We want to continue to keep the place 6 weed-free. One of the big things was dust, people said, 7 "well, you' re generating a lot of dust out there. " We have 8 not heard of any complaints to the County environmental 9 about any dust complaints and we took the complaints to 10 heart because we feel the neighbors have a right to have 11 pure and clean air out there, and we 'd like clean air as 12 well, so one of the conditions was to apply dust abatement 13 to the haul roads and this interior area, and so we did 14 that because we felt that was a legitimate and viable 15 concern and we had a way of mitigating that. [Inaudible] . 16 Basically, what I 'm trying to do is show you that 17 I 'm willing to do whatever is necessary on a legitimate 18 basis to fit in and also to be a good neighbor to my 19 neighbors in the surrounding area. 20 With respect to the haul road, you can take a 21 look at this and realize that the road out there was not in 22 the best of shape, and it still needs more work. It needs 23 more work to make it a decent road. I 'm willing to put 24 forth the effort and the money at my own expense to make it 25 better and everyone benefits. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 43 1 I just want to show you once again that I 2 wasn' t afraid to put my money where my mouth was and do it 3 because it' s something that needed to be done and I feel 4 strongly about it. 5 With respect to the construction of the 6 pole building, at the time there were some conflicts with 7 -- in a way that the County words that, and I think that ' s 8 a problem because they say, "It depends on what you' re 9 doing with the building, whether or not you need a building 10 permit, " Well, because we we 're just putting machinery in 11 there, we felt that it fit under the guideline of an ag 12 building that does not require a permit. My neighbors 13 pointed out that, "Yes, you need a permit" therefore we 14 went and got a building permit to construct that and we did 15 so, and we went through all of the processing -- 16 MR. ARAGON: -- and is final . So it meets all the 17 standards and criteria of a proper building. 18 There was a lot of concern about the septic 19 system. You know, you need a public restroom out there, 20 which we agree, that ' s a very viable and valid concern that 21 you need to provide sanitary facilities for your customers 22 or anyone on the premises, and we felt that was legitimate 23 so we took it upon ourselves to go get a permit, to get a 24 septic system designed, have it designed and engineered and 25 then install it -- at our own peril with respect to the AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 44 1 USR. 2 We looked at the area on the west side here. On page 3 twenty-six, we had timbers and landscape materials piled on 4 the west side of the property in an area that we felt 5 needed more gravel and less use so what we did was we moved 6 our -- we reconfigured that and put the materials in an 7 area where they' re not adjacent to the west side of the 8 property. What we tried to do was realized that the 9 residents to the west, the Weilers, especially -- are the ^- 10 closest to us, and we wanted to try and keep as much as we 11 could away from that west side of the fence to make it more 12 compatible, and also to take into account the fact that we 13 have neighbors within 250 feet of our west border. So when 14 we configured things, we had our parking of trucks on the 15 west side and that was not a good thing because we looked 16 at that and thought well, you know, Mr. Weiler sees the 17 backs of our trucks and also he hears it when they start so 18 maybe we should move them to the inside of the property, 19 and also provide some interior, perimeter screening and 20 construct a three- sided structure that encloses our 21 machinery to protect the machinery and also to screen the 22 machinery from the view of the neighboring properties to 23 make it more visually appealing. And I thought the only 24 way we could really do these things is just to do them and 25 then show that I would be willing to do that, and also to AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 45 1 mitigate the problem as the problem stood. 2 We also felt that screening in large amounts would 3 be necessary to really make the site look more attractive 4 so we took it upon ourselves to screen because we don' t 5 want -- [inaudible] high wind area as well, and we felt 6 that by putting more screening, it would prevent the wind 7 from, you know, coming across the site. Regardless of what 8 use we had out there, it would be beneficial, screening 9 would be beneficial to block the wind from all directions . 10 One page twenty-seven, it' s a page that I 'm pretty 11 proud of. On the front of the property, if you look at the I- 12 very top there, we added trees, fencing, landscaping to 13 make that a lot more compatible with the surrounding area 14 to the north. I thought we really accomplished a good 15 thing there, and it really works well . The trees are going 16 to grow they' re Cottonless Cottonwood, and because that ' s a 17 low-lying drainage area, they just soak up the moisture and 18 take right off. So, they've grown considerably since we 19 took these photographs , and they' re really looking good 20 screening the area nicely. And then again, if you look at 21 the delivery truck area where we have them parked to the 22 west, we took that into account and said, "Well, hey, you 23 know, if we can move these trucks and put them in a 24 different area, that would be more compatible with our — 25 neighbors to the west, " so we moved them and put them in an AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING & VIDEO '� DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 r 46 1 interior area. 2 The only other thing that I 'd like to point out is 3 that during this process, there was a drought year when we 4 first moved out to the site, and there was a lot more dust 5 in the area, period, because it' s a rural area, and it' s a 6 dry land. There was quite a bit of dust not strictly as a 7 result of our operation, but, and not trying to take away — 8 from that - but we did generate dust and it was in the 9 moving of these materials, and moving this stuff around , •- 10 that we had to break some eggs to make the omelette, so to 11 speak, and you know, there is going to be some dust, but 12 now things are entirely different due to the fact that 13 we've got gravel over 90 percent of the property, with the 14 exception of the southeast corner which is not -- there is 15 not a neighbor -- Mr. Hardesty made the comment that, 16 "well his cows don' t mind if they had a little dust in that 17 area, so we didn' t have to worry about putting in rock down 18 there, so we didn' t. And that ' s store our dirt material . 19 The other thing we accomplished out here is that, 20 because of the property being a terraced or really sharp 21 drop, whenever you had a storm out here it created a lot of 22 stormwater and some drainage problems, so retaining walls 23 have been constructed on page twenty-eight, which we did 24 check to find out if we needed a permit for that, and a 25 retaining wall is not required to have a building permit, AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 47 1 but the retaining wall is engineered by the standards of 2 Keystone Block Company, and they've done all the 3 engineering for us as far as the loads and so forth that 4 that retaining wall can handle. And now we have a 5 completed retaining wall . 6 Some of these photographs show the fence 7 under construction, what we ' re trying to show is, "yes, we ^ 8 knew this was going to happen. " We were trying to do 9 [inaudible] fence anyway, regardless of the outcome, we 10 wanted a fence on the property, and we thought that a 11 screening fence would be just all right. It would work out 12 well to buffer the two sites, so we did install that. 13 On page thirty-one, it depicts the front area 14 completed. We 've since completed that construction, which 15 is a significant change to the way the site was. 16 On thirty-three, if you look at the view to the 17 south, that ' s a view of the site, from the site , without 18 screening across the rear of the site . Now, you can look 19 at the site -- I think that other photograph depicts that 20 really well . This would be looking from County Road 17, 21 north, to the site of TimberRock, and this highlighted 22 area, the fence is white by the way, this was highlighted a. 23 so you could see where it was . But if you look, you can' t 24 see any piles, which there was some concern about the piles 25 being unattractive, and that ' s really subjective but, you AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 48 1 know, I took that into consideration and said, "Hey, you 2 know, maybe that should be considered and maybe, " you know, 3 "the more wind protection we can get out there, the better 4 off we'd be for dust mitigation, fugitive dust mitigation. " .- 5 And it has worked out really well in that fashion. So 6 that' s how that came about. 7 Now, that was just in the substantial change package 8 that was submitted to you June 14 . Since June 14, we 've 9 gone a step further and completed some of these projects 10 that were underway. 11 Now if you take the packet I just gave you and look 12 from -- You've got the original -- this is the follow- up 13 to the original packet. On page one it shows what the 14 condition of the road was, and it shows that we 've applied 15 the road base to the road and made it better, again, even 16 after the first time we did it. This is all at our expense 17 and peril, but we did realize that it needed more road 18 base, and we were in a position and able to do it, and so 19 we did it, to make it better for everyone. And we did 20 benefit in the sense of our business, but by the same 21 token, everyone benefits from a good road, and safety has 22 also been mitigated. If there was a concern about safety, ., 23 the road is plenty wide for two cars to pass safely. 24 On page two, it shows the building construction 25 completed. We have a handicap-accessible, public restroom AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO �' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 mei 49 1 inside the building. And then the soil products are not 2 out front like they used to be, they are in the rear. That 3 was a real problem, before we had the compost and the soil 4 up front where it created dust, and my apologies to my 5 neighbor for doing that because I had no idea, initially, 6 that that would create that problem. But we did mitigate 7 that and we tried our best to make sure that that would not B happen again. 9 On page three, if you take a look, you can see a 10 view of the three-sided structure that we've built and 11 along with the screen fencing to block -- to make the site 12 more attractive and less - less of an eye- sore, if you 13 will. I don' t see it as an eye-sore, but some people 14 might. And we installed a gravel customer parking area, 15 which is what we said we would do, and we made sure we put 16 plenty of gravel in just because we wanted to mitigate any 17 fugutive dust, and it has worked out really well to 18 accomplish that. We also felt that landscaping would vital 19 to the site to make it more attractive and regardless of — 20 the outcome of this, I still wanted to landscape the 21 property and make it look considerably better than it does . ._. 22 CHAIR MASDEN: Can I interrupt you for a minute, Mr. 23 Aragon? 24 MR. ARAGON: Yes, sir. 25 CHAIR MASDEN: How much longer are going to continue AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 50 1 with your presentation? 2 MR. ARAGON: Maybe five, ten minutes . 3 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, because we are needing to break 4 for lunch here in just a few minutes. 5 MR. ARAGON: May I ask a question of you? 6 CHAIR MASDEN: Sure. 7 MR. ARAGON: Would it be okay if we broke 8 when I get to this page here, the buffer? And then we can 9 do that. 10 CHAIR MASDEN: Sure. 11 MR. GEILE: I have a question, if I may, Mr. 12 Chairman. 13 MR. ARAGON: Yes sir. 14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: The applicant is presenting an 15 awful lot of information about what' s going on this site . 16 Counselor, I guess I would like to ask you: we ' re hearing a 17 substantial change based upon four areas. All of the 18 improvements on the site that he ' s referring to, which area 19 does that fall into as far as substantial change? 20 MR. MORRISON: Change in their future application, 21 change in the future application. 22 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. 23 MR. MORRISON: I think the testimony was, that was the 24 original site plan that ' s on the board, as well as in the 25 book, I believe. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO '- DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 c 51 1 MR. GEILE: Okay. 2 MR. MORRISON: So, I think that ' s -- he' s going over 3 how the original site plan and the original application is 4 different from what's there now, and what will be done in 5 an application in the future. 6 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Thank you. 7 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Thank you. 8 MR. ARAGON: Back to page three of this, M 9 you can see that we did the landscaping to provide a 10 buffer between the materials area and the parking area. 11 On page four, if you take a good look at the top 12 photograph, you can see initially how the site was before 13 we did any significant, substantial changes. Now, the 14 photograph right below it depicts the substantial changes 15 as completed, and I feel it' s a pretty substantial change. 16 On page five, we 've got more landscaping just showing you 17 some different areas that we landscaped and how it looks . 18 Page six shows you the compatibility with the 19 surrounding area by installing the screening the screening 20 and the flag-stone products, put right behind the screening 21 to buffer that from the surrounding land. Also, more 22 landscaping up towards the middle, beautifying 23 the area. And again, mentioning the retaining walls 24 in two areas, showing how we 've improved the storm drainage '- 25 runoff and made it more visually appealing, as well . AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 52 1 Page eight is really important because if you look 2 at page eight, you' ll see the site, really in its infancy, ^ 3 and how it looks today. That, really depicts a substantial 4 change. 5 On page nine, this shows before the screening 6 fence was completed, and it shows after the screening fence 7 was completed, and a view of the oncoming approach as you 8 enter the property. 9 CHAIR MASDEN: Mr. Aragon, let me interrupt you one 10 more time. I was handed a note that the situation with the 11 gentlemen running around with the rifle still continues 12 over on the ice house area four to five blocks from here, 13 so -- 14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: For your information, it ' s on 15 the east side of the railroad tracks on 11th, so probably 16 if you stay this side of 8th Avenue, it shouldn' t be a 17 problem. 18 CHAIR MASDEN: Yeah, in this downtown area on this 19 side, so -- just so if anybody' s getting ready to take off 20 or anything, just be really cautious . Continue, I 'm sorry. 21 MR. ARAGON: Page eleven shows the landscaped 22 entry into the business, and how visually appealing that is 23 compared to what it used to be. Um, it doesn't show the 24 comparison, but you got the idea because you saw the 25 pictures on the previous pages . AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 P.P. 53 1 Page twelve indicates the front of the property 2 where we took that photograph, and did what we said we ._ 3 would do and make it look like you see it in the 4 photograph. - 5 Page thirteen shows the actual sign and how it turned 6 out. 7 On page fourteen, I think this is another really 8 important photograph to take a look at because if you look 9 at the date on three, on 4/19 of ' 03, that ' s what the site 10 looked like. Now, there ' s a lot of testimony saying that 11 we were operating in violation in November of ' 02 on the 12 site. If you can take a look at this photograph and 13 realize that on 4/19 of ' 03, clearly there ' s nothing out 14 here on the site. On page fourteen, same page, we can see 15 that the completed improvements, which is a significant 16 change. 17 On page fifteen, again, if you take a look at the 18 first photograph, realize that that ' s what the property 19 looked like, and then after some changes had taken place, 20 it looks a lot better. A lot of the dust, noise and the 21 compatibility issues were mitigated. 22 On page sixteen, again, you get a real feel for 23 how the property looked before and then after the 24 substantial changes had taken place . 25 Again, same thing on page seventeen, and these AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 54 1 show the differences. 2 On page eighteen, you can look at it in the winter 3 time and see how it looked before we did the substantial 4 change of installing screening, and trees, and visually 5 buffering the site across the front. I think that' s really 6 important to realize that -- it ' s a big difference. 7 On page nineteen where they show the dairy, 8 and them how it looks after the screening, buffering the 9 two properties . 10 On page twenty, we've got rock placed before, before 11 the rock was placed for erosion control and after the rock 12 was place to control erosion 13 on the site. These are things that had 14 to occur right away because we were experiencing erosion 15 due to the lot of moisture we had this year, so we had to 16 mitigate those circumstances ASAP, in order to prevent 17 further erosion of the land on that area. Thank you. 18 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, thank you. At this time we 19 want to break for lunch. We will reconvene at 1 : 30 PM. 20 MR. MORRISON: And the other thing is, we ' re going to 21 lock this room up because of all the computer equipment, so 22 if you want to leave yours, you can, but also take whatever _ 23 you need with you over the lunch hour. 24 CHAIR MASDEN: Good afternoon, we' ll reconvene the 25 Board of County Commissioners with all five - showing all AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO •-' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 55 1 five Commissioners here, and Mr. Aragon had a - I think you 2 had concluded your testimony or do you have some more to 3 finish up? 4 MR. ARAGON: I have some more. 5 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. 6 MR. ARAGON: Jess Aragon. I wanted to conclude 7 my presentation. I wanted to discuss the substantial 8 change criteria, I think it' s really important to note, if 9 we take a look at the information on page 2, just beyond 10 the pink sheet, where we ' re talking about pursuant to the 11 articles of the Weld County Code. 12 Criteria number 1 -- Has the land-use application 13 substantially changed? Without belaboring the point any 14 further, I think I 've demonstrated that the land-use - 15 application has substantially changed. And then with 16 respect to the interior of the plan, have shown there are 17 significant changes in terms of placement of materials, 18 mitigation of dust and noise through the use of screening 19 devices and landscaping. Criteria number 2 -- Has the 20 surrounding land-uses substantially changed? Has the 21 adjacent land-use changed during the period of time to the 22 last application that what would be compatible with the 23 adjacent use has changed? We believe that yes, that has 24 changed because we are mitigating circumstances and things 25 that were pointed out to be of significant importance to AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 56 1 residents of the area, as well as passers-by or any other 2 one wishing to comment on this proposal . 3 We've also demonstrated, I believe, that substantial 4 change has occurred in a couple of the surrounding 5 land-uses. However, with respect to the auto-mall project, 6 we know that we ' re - at this point, it' s not etched in 7 stone but we do have some intergovernmental agreements 8 leading to that conclusion that one would draw that this 9 change is going to happen at some point, we just don' t know 10 exactly when. 11 And I just wanted to demonstrate and show some of 12 the photographs . If you take a look -- it ' s not numbered 13 but the screening, how it buffers the site from the 14 adjacent property to the south and clearly screens and 15 mitigates any potential dust or eye -- eyesore, if you 16 will, potential. Also, we did touch on the south gate 17 annexation, I just want to make one brief point with 18 respect to that where winds are actually, basically says 19 that -- let me just get right to this here, one second. r' 20 Okay, the letter dated March 4, 2004, to the Mayor and Town 21 Board from Joseph Plumber, Director of Planning, and the W.* 22 resolution making certain findings of fact concerning the 23 SouthGate III Annexation and establishing date for public 24 hearing. ' 25 The last paragraph reads, "Since this proposal is AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO '�' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 Pal 57 1 consistent with the employment corridor land-use depiction 2 in our Comprehensive Plan, which was new information not 3 available at the time of the initial application, staff 4 recommends approval of this resolution to make certain 5 findings of fact pertaining to this specific annexation and 6 to establish the dates for the upcoming hearings . They did 7 this and as well since that time they have actually filed 8 this document between Windsor and Greeley recently in, I 9 believe, July or early August, so that is a legal document 10 that Weld County -- that has been filed with Weld County. 11 And the next point I 'd like to make is just to kind 12 of show you that some of the other photographs here 13 depicting the site use and some of the -- how the 14 mitigating -- things we did to mitigate certain aspects of 15 the visual, as well as noise buffering and dust abatement 16 such as the trees . I spent a great deal amount of money on 17 additional landscaping. It really doesn' t do justice in 18 the photographs . I don' t know if any of you have ever 19 visited the site but it really -- the pictures really do — 20 not do justice to the benefits that the site has received 21 due to the changes we 've made to the site. 22 Another important one that I think is really 23 important is that we changed the overhead electrical power 24 line which is now buried underground. There was a power 25 line that ran across the property from north or, excuse me, AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 58 1 east to west right across the middle of the property and we 2 had that line buried for the safety of all occupants as 3 well as any visitors to the site. I think it ' s a really 4 big change that benefits the welfare of the general public, 5 as well as the occupants . 6 And then we just provide you some views from a 7 couple of the neighbors . The Wieler driveway basically is 8 on the - adjacent to the easement. That is their view - a 9 photograph depicting their view to the east just to show 10 you what that looks likes if you haven't been out there. 11 And then I also wanted to point out that the fence screens 12 the view of almost everything on the site if you' re looking 13 at the site from the west, if you' re looking west to east. 14 And the three residences that are to the west of Timber 15 Rock have indicated their views from their front areas of 16 their properties just so one can get a flavor of what that 17 looks like if you've never been out there. 16 And it's important to note that from these places 19 you can' t see TimberRock, the operation itself at all . You 20 can see the fence, at best, along with the tops of the 21 buildings, which I think we 've done a real good job of 22 adequately mitigating and screening the area to be 23 compatible with the surrounding land-uses or land and 24 occupants of the area. And now that' s all I have at this 25 point, if there' s any questions I 'd be happy to answer AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 59 1 them. 2 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Any question to the 3 applicant? Seeing none, Thank you. 4 MR. ARAGON: Thank you. 5 MR. ZIER: I want to clarify one thing. 6 One of the Commissioners mentioned that we ' re here 7 requesting consideration of all four criteria concerning 8 substantial change. Our application is for three of the 9 four and we've -- I think gone through what those are. I 10 can' t stress strongly enough that what we' re talking about 11 with the site changes relate to changes in the application, 12 that the original application had very little to do with 13 fencing, landscaping, dust mitigation, noise mitigation and 14 so forth. So, what we have shown you in the photographs, ^- 15 we ' re not saying the substantial change is the work that ' s 16 been done, it ' s that that shows the difference in what was 17 originally proposed and what is now being proposed as these 18 demonstrate. 19 As an example, and a pretty good yardstick for the 20 differences, the initial proposal, even through the County 21 Commissioner hearing with the staff conditions for 22 approval, called for about 20 to 30 percent of the site 23 being graveled or rocked, 90 percent of the site is now 24 proposed to be graveled or rocked and an additional portion 25 will be grassed where the leech field is and where other AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO -^ DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 60 1 display areas are. So, dust mitigation is appreciably 2 increased more -- quite substantially over what was 3 proposed or even discussed in the staff' s conditions . And 4 where the previous staff conditions talked about design 5 standards and so forth, those have been substantially 6 increased or exceeded. So, I know a lot of people want to 7 speak, I would ask to be able to reserve an opportunity for 8 a brief rebuttal and we appreciate your time. 9 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Thank you. All right, so- 10 now we will have our public input portion and if people are 11 here to speak on this matter you can come to the lectern 12 and give your name and address please . And if you do 13 represent a group, let me know that so I can maybe give you 14 a little more time because we ' ll allow everybody about 5 15 minutes . 16 MS . WEINMEISTER: Okay. My name Kathy 17 Weinmeister and I live at 28649 County Road 17 . On October 18 1st of 2003, we came before this Board of Commissions 19 requesting a denial of USR 1430. And our concerns at that 20 time were the dust, the noise and the traffic. Never was 21 the visual factor a consideration. The Board decided, and 22 I quote, "The noise, the dust, and the traffic associated 23 with this business can not be adequately mitigated" and 24 that' s a quote. 25 Since the February 15th 2004 deadline given to AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING & VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 61 1 Timber Rock by this Board, Timber Rock has, and I quote 2 Bethany Salzman' s referral letter from this, "Continue to 3 grow and become more established. " Now, Timber Rock is 4 saying that by constructing buildings, putting up fences 5 and doing landscaping, a substantial land-use change has 6 taken place. I strongly disagree with this . How is a fence 7 going to alleviate the traffic problems that we have on a 8 private easement? How is the building going to stop the 9 noise of tons of rocks crashing into steel bed trucks? And 10 while trees are pretty, they certainly will not stop the 11 dust problem generated by this business . 12 I and my neighbors are not the only ones that feel 13 this way. Greg Thompson, Planning Manager for the City of 14 Greeley, wrote in his referral letter, "Putting up extra 15 tall fences to hide piles of materials is not compatible 16 with Greeley' s vision of this corridor. Also, a car lot on 17 the northwest corner of Highway 34 and County Road 17 does 18 not constitute a significant land-use change. " 19 The only substantial change that has taken place by 20 Timber Rock is that the business has grown and with its 21 growth, the noise, the dust, and the traffic has increased. 22 The changes that have been made at Timber Rock have in no 23 way mitigated these problems . Thank you. 24 CHAIR MASDEN: Any question for Ms . 25 Weinmeister? All right, thank you. Is there anyone else AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 62 1 here today to speak on this matter? Come give your name 2 and address please . Good afternoon. 3 MS. SCHINNER: Hello. My name is Tina Schinner. 4 I live at 28609 Weld County Road 17 . It' s the 25-acre 5 parcel across the street to the north. My - the main door 6 that we use does have a view of TimberRock. It ' s a 7 beautiful property and as a previous business owner, I 8 commend them for the work that he has done on it. They do 9 provide a good service to the community. I was a previous 10 customer before we moved in here and even right before we 11 moved in here at our previous property when I purchased 12 property or supplies from him at this location. 13 What ' s different though, if this is a substantial 14 use application change, it ' s still a landscaping business 15 that is being conducted. No other changes have happened in 16 the surrounding area and as far as newly discovered 17 evidence, I believe in the Northern Colorado business 18 report there were articles about the Greeley-Windsor 19 Intergovernmental Agreement that came up before the time 20 that it was published in the Greeley Tribune and also in 21 the Windsor Beacon. Before we were notified as owners, it 22 was public knowledge that this was being held. They talked 23 about the dust, the visual, and the noise. Our main 24 concern is the road, which has been called a private 25 easement . Here, that is of significant importance to us . It AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 63 1 is a - they' re neglecting to do anything about the concerns 2 of the road. 3 Many other like-use businesses have access to a 4 county road or to a collector road. This is not - this is a 5 private easement and they can not get access to a county 6 road from where they are there. The dairy does have access 7 to the county road but the trucks don' t use that . I have 8 perfect view of both the dairy and TimberRock 9 from my property. The tenants use the private road, 10 the private easement, the trucks, the big semis and the 11 customers and their trucks do not -- or the dairy trucks do 12 not use that road at all . We never see any trucks coming 13 in from there. 14 So, our main concern -- my husband and I, our main 15 concern is the use of this private access road for 16 commercial use at this time and we feel that ' s not 17 compatible. One other note as far as - no, I 'm not - I 18 think that ' s for something else . So, I guess that ' s all I 19 have to say. Are there any questions? 20 CHAIR MASDEN: Thank you. Any questions for 21 Tina? Thank you. 22 MS . SCHINNER: Uh-huh. 23 CHAIR MASDEN: Is there anyone else here this 24 afternoon who'd like to speak on this matter? Come to the 25 lectern, please. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 ^ 64 1 MS . STALEY: Good afternoon. My name is Lori 2 Staley. I live at 8476 Weld County Road 62 which is 3 actually down County Road 17 towards Windsor and if you 4 know that ' s also called -- 5 FEMALE: Crossroads . 6 MS . STALEY: Crossroads, thank you. Which I 7 don' t know how I can forget that since it is a main 8 thoroughfare to our property now. I -- I am here basically 9 to tell you that I feel that Jess has made numerous 10 attempts to try to make his neighbors happy. I think that 11 he -- just personally coming on to the property, I have 12 seen a change that you would not believe . And he has done 13 several improvements to the road, and I 'm sure he ' s willing 14 to do any other type of improvements to that road in order 15 to make it, you know, a good road for what is being done 16 there on the property. And he provides a service to all of 17 us in Windsor that beautifies our property and I don't know 18 if you know, but I must have called "the tree lady. " I am 19 the one that protects the trees along County Road 62, and 20 our road was a very small road. 21 Nobody knew our road, it was just our road. Now it 22 is everybody' s road, it is the main thoroughfare. And our 23 road that consists of just - the gravel is so rough that it 24 jars my little car to death. It' s not taken care of 25 properly and everything that Martin' s done is wonderful . He AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 65 1 has got a nice pavement and he is doing nice things, but I 2 still get noise, I still get dust and, you know, 3 unfortunately that' s what comes along with progress . And I 4 know that we don't like to change but the United States is 5 changing and we are progressing and I 'm glad to live in a 6 free country where we can have businesses and where we can 7 provide services to our friends and our family and our 8 neighbors . And I would just hate to see Jess ' s business go 9 away because that' s where I 've bought all my materials, 10 that' s where all my friends have bought all their 11 materials. That ' s all . 12 CHAIR MASDEN: All right. Any question for 13 Lori? Okay, thanks . Is there anyone else here this 14 afternoon? 15 MR. WEILER: My name is Tom Weiler. I live at 16 28641 Weld County Road 17 . My home is 163 feet directly 17 west of Timber Rock and there has been a lot of changes and 18 they've all been cosmetic. As far as the major issues and 19 items, the dust, the traffic and the noise, that screening 20 and fencing has not done anything to improve that 21 situation. Since the last hearing a year ago in October, if 22 anything it is increased drastically. That ' s all I have to 23 say. 24 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Thank you. Any questions ^ 25 for Tom? All right. Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 — 66 1 here this afternoon to speak on this matter? And while 2 you' re walking up here I just got an update. The standoff 3 is over with the gentleman that was running around. He has 4 surrendered to the Greeley police and no one was injured. 5 Thank goodness . Good afternoon. 6 MR. SPEARS: Good afternoon. My name is James 7 Spears . I reside at 22 - 2122 western circle, I mean, 8 Westwood circle -- oh, let' s see here -- 16. I forgot my 9 own address here but anyways, I live in Greeley. I drive 10 for TimberRock Landscaping, 90 percent of our materials 11 into TimberRock. Now, the road that they' re speaking of is 12 - we built a road with nothing there when we started. We 13 built a road and as far as maintaining the road, we still 14 maintain the road. I put tons of gravel on that road at 15 least twice a month and we maintain the road. 16 As far as dust, they put up fences to mitigate the 17 dust, they put up houses, built up a shed there that 18 stopped the noise. And also we have polymer sheds there to 19 stop the noise too. And as far as noise, well you could 20 hardly hear anything, you could stand out on the road you 21 don' t hear a truck loading or unloading. It ' s not a 22 quarter-mile down the road where so many people live and 23 they claim that a quarter-mile down the road that they 24 can' t hear - they can't hear a TV. Well I know it is wrong 25 because I dump most of the loads in there. I don' t load AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING & VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 67 1 the trucks in there. The materials going out they load 2 them in a smaller trucks . I bring it in with a big truck 3 but there are - I don't see why they complain about the a. 4 noise and the dust. There was dust before we even came 5 here that come off the farms there. Sometimes you couldn' t 6 even see 10 feet ahead of you, but now, I mean, it ' s - dust 7 is not a - not a problem for that - as far as our place. B But there is a - I think it' s a big improvement. That ' s 9 all I have say. 10 CHAIR MASDEN: Thanks . Any questions? Thank 11 you. Is there anyone else here this afternoon to speak on 12 this matter? Good afternoon. 13 MR. TARPINIAN: All right, good afternoon. Mike 14 Tarpinian, my address is 1003 Indian Trail Drive in 15 Windsor. And I 've just got to say I 've known Jess for the 16 last couple of years, 2-3 years, I guess . My son used to 17 work out at TimberRock when they first moved out there from 18 Windsor. And when they first moved out there I 'd just 19 bought a brand new car -- nice and shinny, 58 miles on it. 20 I didn' t want to drive up that road to drop my son off at 21 work. You know, there was gravel coming up and I didn' t 22 want to get all dusty and everything else. 23 That has completely changed in the last -- in the 24 last year or so. The improvements to the -- to the road 25 driving up to Timber Rock, a complete 180-degree turnaround AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO '� DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)4434433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 68 1 -- it ' s a nice graveled road. There' s signs out there 2 which I 'm sure you've already heard, you know, 5 miles per 3 hour, maximum speed limit. When my son was driving with 4 trucks and stuff, you know, Jess was very explicit, you 5 know, keep the speed down, make sure that you' re not 6 kicking up dust. He was very conscientious in making sure 7 that, you know, that they were being good neighbors to the 8 other neighbors out there. 9 My son no longer works there anymore but I have had 10 occasions to go out there to TimberRock and the 11 improvements, like everybody else has been saying, are 12 phenomenal . I mean, they have a sand box for kids to play 13 in while their parents are out shopping for -- for 14 landscaping supplies . You know, just the overall 15 aesthetics of the overall -- of the landscaping and the 16 grounds there. It' s very pleasant to go there and shop. 17 I 've been to other landscapers, landscaping supplies, I go 18 in, there is mounds of dirt all over the place, the 19 port-a-potty off in the corner somewhere. 20 I mean, this is a very, very nice business that he 's 21 got setup there. And it would very truly be a shame to see 22 it shut down for any reason. I live in Windsor, he 23 provides a great service. I recommend my friends from 24 other areas . I have a good friend up in Fort Collins . He 25 had been all over Fort Collins shopping for prices and AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO �' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 69 1 stuff. He went to TimberRock and he wound up buying quite 2 a bit of landscaping supplies there because their prices ^ 3 were considerably lower. He ' s, like I said, great service, 4 great prices, he' s done a phenomenal job of meeting the �- 5 codes that were -- that he was instructed to try to meet. 6 And from everything I 've seen he ' s made every attempt to do 7 that. That's all I have to say. 8 CHAIR MASDEN: Thank you, Mike. Any questions? 9 Thank you. 10 MR. TARPINIAN: Okay. Thank you. 11 CHAIR MASDEN: Anyone else here to speak on 12 these matters today? Good afternoon. 13 MR. WEINMEISTER: Good afternoon. My name is 14 Gary Weinmeister. I live at 28649 Weld County Road 17, and 15 I did have a question for the Board. There was some 16 discussion earlier about the petitions that were submitted 17 -- are those applicable to the substantial change hearing? 18 MR. MORRISON: Well, I think my comment to the 19 Board was they have the ability to give whatever weight ' s 20 appropriate to those in their deliberations . So, I think 21 they need to make a judgment as to what value it has as to 22 the issues that are before them. 23 MR. WEINMEISTER: If the applications are 24 pertinent to the substantial change review, there are some 25 issues that I 'd like to mention with the petitions . One is AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 70 1 that Ms . Rubiano indicated her address when she spoke today 2 was in Fort Collins, yet on the petition she has signed as 3 a Windsor address . There are several examples on there of 4 a husband signing for himself and his wife or vice-versa. 5 There are also many examples of people from Fort Collins, 6 Loveland, and Wellington signing that petition. 7 Also, the statement was made that -- excuse me -- 8 the visual effects and everything were done, dust 9 suppressant added, and the signers agreed that they were 10 meeting the sensitivity needs of the neighbors, and I would 11 question how somebody signed a petition that does not live 12 there can know what our sensitivity needs are around this 13 case. So, I would challenge the petition as far as the 14 validity of it. If we do consider the petition, the other 15 thing to remember is that each one of those people, or 16 nearly all of them entered that business to sign that 17 petition. And I understand that there were some that 18 signed it who had the petition brought to their homes, but 19 by and large, you probably had over 200 people sign that 20 petition, and that just substantiates the traffic that is 21 seen on that private easement. 22 As far as meeting substantial change recommendations 23 by this questionnaire, has there been a substantial change 24 in lot size or density? I say, "No. " Has there been a 25 substantial change to internal or external roads from the AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 �. 71 1 time that this original application was submitted? I say, 2 "No. " In the case of re-zoning and the uses proposed, I ^ 3 would say, "No. " It was set up as a landscape materials 4 yard and it will continue as a landscape materials yard. 5 Have the surrounding land-uses substantially changed? Well 6 that ' s been discussed many times, I would say, "No, they 7 have not. " 8 And in closing I would like to say that I do not 9 believe that the efforts here have met the substantial 10 change requirements that are required. Are there any 11 questions? 12 CHAIR MASDEN: Any questions of Gary? No? ^ 13 Thank you sir. 14 MR. WEINMEISTER: Thank you. 15 CHAIR MASDEN: Is there anyone else here to 16 speak on this matter today? Good afternoon. 17 MR. TIGGES : Good afternoon. My name is Ken 18 Tigges, Colt 406 Weld County Road 64-1/2, Greeley, Colorado 19 80631 . I 've done business with Joe in the past, he ' s - I 20 mean, with Jess, excuse me. I have friend, Joe Aragon 21 (unintelligible) . And he ' s bought pumpkins from me for his 22 friend and he' s helped me out. It ' s kind of neat to have a 23 niche market for agriculture . It' s kind of so tough on 24 these guys out there. I 'd sure like to see Joe stay in 25 business, and he ' s also bought straw from me for AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 72 1 landscaping material . And also, as far as landscaping 2 materials, you have your compost and your topsoil and your 3 rock, if that isn' t a little bit compatible with rural, I 4 don' t know what is . So, I think it fits right in. 5 My grandfather was William K. Lind and he used to 6 farm in the dry land up there in the Oklahoma District. He 7 used to take me back on them roads checking fields and he 8 didn' t called them roads, they were two ruts for the field 9 and that ' s quite a road that Joe - that Jess has put in 10 there now. It ' s quite different from what it was when I 11 was a kid. There' s been substantial improvements there. I 12 like to see a guy that stands his ground and put his 13 backbone into it in a physical effort to build up a 14 business like that. I sure hate to see this get stopped by ^ 15 a few little people that want their own way. 16 And it' s kind of, I don' t know, -- the thing about 17 his property being there on I-25 or close to I-25, the 18 corridor there, and 34 is a four-lane straight through 19 there. And that' s what you' re seeing coming along those 20 corridors, you' re seeing the businesses and if that isn' t a 21 business fitting on that chunk of ground, I don' t know what 22 is . I think the man is putting a lot of effort. Most 23 people will draw you up a plan on a piece of paper and 24 that' s all you see is the piece of paper. His is visual, 25 he ' s done a lot of work on that place. I 'm impressed. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 73 1 Thank you. 2 CHAIR MASDEN: Any questions? Thank you. — 3 CHAIR MASDEN: Is there anyone else there this 4 afternoon to talk about this? Good afternoon. 5 MS. HARTSHORN: Hi . I 'm Judy Hartshorn. I live 6 at 28653 Weld County Road 17 . As far as the petition goes, 7 it just -- I was getting a haircut and we had a fire at our — 8 area and the lady who was cutting my hair said, "Where are 9 you from, TimberRock?" and I told her and she said, "Oh, we 10 signed the petition" and I said, "Oh, what petition?" 11 "Well, they' re telling us it' s the big versus little — 12 company and their - the big company is trying to get the 13 little company out of there. " And I said, "Well, did they 14 say anything about the neighbors ' concerns?" And she said, 15 "Oh, no. It' s just big versus little. " 16 So, I 'm questioning the petition after -- that was 17 just -- that just happened. I do -- I drive a Cadillac and — 18 I 've never had problems going up and down our road. When it 19 was stated that this was the fist time the application is 20 why there was trouble with that application. He ' s had 21 applications numerous times, Windsor being the last time. 22 Also, I do live in the neighborhood, I do have neighbors. 23 I 've had them for 30 years, but the bottom line is all this 24 change has nothing to do with the land-use. The land use 25 was still be the same, aesthetic doesn' t mean it' s better. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO ^ DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 74 1 We've never ever questioned the aesthetic, but the bottom 2 line is all this change that we' re talking about was done ._ 3 without the consideration of what this Board had already 4 put forward. So, I 'm vehemently against this . Thank you. 5 CHAIR MASDEN: Thank you. Any questions? All 6 right, thank you. Anyone else to speak on this matter 7 today? Come to the lectern and give your name and address, 8 please. Good afternoon. 9 MR. CONNELL: Good afternoon. My name is Tim 10 Connell . I live at 3719 Klipstein Road in Cheyenne. I 've 11 known Jess for about 4 years . I watched him move from one 12 site to another. The site he is on now, he has improved 13 that site about 500 percent. I deal with a lot of 14 landscape companies across the State of Colorado and that ' s 15 probably the nicest landscape yard that I visit. And I 16 realize use-is-use, it ' s still a landscape supply yard. The 17 issue was - was the road, he fixed the road, was noise and 18 dust, and he ' s taking care of those things . You know, I 19 think it would be a shame to see him shut down because it 20 seems to me he has complied with what you've asked him to 21 comply with. So, I would consider carefully -- I think he 22 needs to stay. 23 CHAIR MASDEN: Thanks. Any questions? All 24 right, thanks. Anyone else here today to speak on this 25 matter? If so, come to the lectern and give your name and AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO ^` DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 — 75 1 address please. Good afternoon. 2 MS . STAVLEY: Good afternoon. Carmen Stavley 3 and I live at 129 North Chimney Park Drive in Windsor. I 4 have known Cindy and Jess for several years and I was the 5 listing agent on the property that they are currently 6 occupying. I am a broker and partner with the Group Real 7 Estate . They - their - actually their parents bought the 8 property and it -- originally were going to build their 9 home there and plans changed and Jess and Cindy ended up 10 putting their landscape business there. They have 11 substantially improved that property. I 'm hoping that you 12 guys have been out there to see it. The pictures do not do 13 it justice. 14 As a Windsor resident, I think that that is a huge 15 improvement over what was there. Two -- when the property 16 was purchased, it was two huge silage pits, really full of 17 trash -- refrigerators, washers, dryers, junk. They have 18 really improved this property. The -- I 've been there on 19 several occasions to make purchases for my own property and ^ 20 the traffic on that road is very minimal . I think that the 21 neighbors need to really kind of evaluate what their 22 priorities are and fight the important fight. I think this 23 will be a really nice addition to their community and 24 really could be a buffer to their community as over the 25 next 5 years when the auto mall does go in and there are AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING & VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 76 1 lights there, 24/7 and large semi trucks loading and 2 unloading vehicles and, you know, the Highway 34 Corridor 3 Plan is really going to bring some huge changes and I think 4 this is just a very small bump in the road of those 5 changes, but I do think that they have really shown the 6 substantial change that they have made and in meeting those 7 requirements for today. 8 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Questions? Commissioner 9 Jerke. 10 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Were 11 you the listing agent or the selling agent there. 12 MS. STAVLEY: I was the listing agent . I did 13 not represent them in the purchase at all . 14 MR. JERKE: Okay. Something that' s been 15 nagging at me a little bit, as I recall there ' s been an 16 assertion that, that road for access is an easement of some 17 kind, and I think it' s been suggested that the owners of 18 this property somehow don' t share that easement and don't 19 have the ability to actually access their property by 20 virtue of that easement. Could you enlighten us any on 21 that? 22 MS . STAVLEY: I -- I would say probably, the 23 Planning Commission - when I took this listing, it was a 24 long time ago. I - the first thing I did, it was a kind of 25 a unique property. This had - this was - 5-acre parcel had AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 — 77 1 been separated via Recorded Exemption and it took us a 2 number of months just to go through the process to make 3 sure that it truly was, number one, accessible, and it 4 wasn' t off and isolated, and it couldn't be accessed. The 5 Planning Commission assured me that yes, they did have 6 access via this easement road, that it was a jointly owned 7 road by all of the property surrounding there, and that it 8 was to be jointly maintained by all of those properties 9 around there. So, that is the way that we depicted it as 10 it was being sold, and that was through the Planning 11 Department - kind of getting - getting guidance through 12 them as to, you know, what the legal rights and so forth 13 were. 14 CHAIR MASDEN: Thank you. Any other questions 15 for Ms . Stavley? 16 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah. With the with the size of 17 The Group, and we are - I did hear you say that you were -- 18 MS. STAVLEY: Yeah. The Group Real Estate, yes . 19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: The Group Real Estate. Larry 20 Kendall and his involvement in the commercial side, as well 21 as the residential side. 22 MS . STAVLEY: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER GEILE: How long have you known about 24 the auto dealership up on 17 and 34? But I only ask you '— 25 this because there ' s a lot of relationships in the real AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 -� 78 1 estate community -- 2 MS . STAVLEY: Absolutely. 3 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And my question is, how long 4 have you known about it? 5 MS . STAVLEY: I happen to know Martin Lind 6 and John Chamberlain, the owner of Champion Car 7 Dealerships, and as far -- when they came here you -- they 8 have a signed letter saying from Martin he did not have a - 9 any intentions of that being commercial usage and that I -� 10 believe is a public record for all of you guys to see that 11 letter. I had -- I speak to Martin probably on a monthly 12 basis and John Chamberlain less frequently than that, and I 13 knew that there was discussion that they wanted to do an 14 auto mall . There was a lot of interest in him going up on 15 Highway 32 - or Highway 392 and I- 25 and that fell through 16 and his -- really, his second choice was to go out to 17 Highway 34 . I honestly can' t tell you how long I 've known 18 -- I would say, probably when I read it in the papers, when 19 I knew it was a real solid thing. 20 CHAIR MASDEN: I guess - Lee, did you have a 21 comment? 22 MR. MORRISON: Well, I -- if you' re through with 23 this -- 24 CHAIR MASDEN: I just had one question. You 25 said you went out and got material out there at TimberRock? AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING &VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 79 1 MS. STAVLEY: Correct 2 CHAIR MASDEN: Did you see the petition or sign 3 it? 4 MS. STAVLEY: No. I was not a part of the 5 petition. 6 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Any other questions? All 7 right. Thank you. 8 MS. STAVLEY: Uh-huh. 9 MR. MORRISON: The question about the access, the -� 10 record in the previous case would indicate there' s a unique 11 ownership. It was deeded to property owners. It' s -- so, 12 it' s more than an easement, it ' s like a joint ownership 13 it' s -- it's a bit unusual . And the record would show that 14 I said at the last hearing that as far as I could tell 15 there was no legal impediment to use of that for 16 TimberRock, and there has been no challenge directly to the 17 use by the other users of that. So, I guess as it stands 18 now, they legally have the right to use it and, you know, 19 pay a fair share of the maintenance costs as a result of 20 their use. 21 CHAIR MASDEN: So, everyone has the same legal 22 right to access is what you're saying? 23 MR. MORRISON: Basically, the ownership of the 24 strip of land that constitutes their -- the -- well, it' s — 25 much wider than the actual road but the strip of land that AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 .� 80 1 constitutes the access is owned by the owners of the lots 2 that join it. And under that, I think they all have the 3 right to use it and concurrent obligation to maintain it. 4 CHAIR MASDEN: Yeah. Yes, Bill, Commissioner Jerke. 5 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Lee, does 6 that mean 7 then thought that people that who would own lots that are 8 to the west of the subject property, even though they 9 wouldn' t have ownership of anything east that would get 10 them out to the road, but they still have the right to go 11 ahead and use that road, that land that ' s out in front of n 12 someone else ' s property to be able to access their property 13 because there are properties that go out to the west? 14 MR. MORRISON: Right . 15 COMMISSIONER JERKE: (Unintelligible) subject 16 property. r- 17 MR. MORRISON: And there are also - the properties 18 adjoining, that use that road all own interest in this 19 strip of land on which was the road lies . ^ 20 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Oh. 21 MR. MORRISON: So, those properties to the west 22 also own a piece of the -- a joint right in that strip of 23 land. 24 CHAIR MASDEN: And not just a piece. 25 MR. MORRISON: Not just -- no, not just a piece in AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 24 also have done work out there on some of the other 25 residence out there -- I 'm a service plumber, Master AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 81 1 front of them. 2 MR. MASDEN: It ' s not a whole thing? 3 MR. MORRISON: Right, which would be the case of an 4 easement where then you have a right crossing that. 5 MR. MASDEN: Uh-huh. 6 MR. MORRISON: But this, there ' s actually a _. 7 separate parcel that constitutes the access . 8 MR. MASDEN: Okay. All right. Is there 9 anyone else to speak on this matter today? Step up and 10 give me your name and address . Good afternoon. 11 MR. TALLON: Good afternoon Chairman, 12 Commissioners. Thank you for letting me speak in front of 13 you. My name is Victor Tallon, 608 Corner Stone Drive 14 Windsor, Colorado. I stand before you -- I 'm doing some 15 work right now for Mr. Aragon putting in the bathrooms up 16 there. Also I stand before you, I 'm the Vice-Chairman of 17 the Planning Commission in Windsor. When this first came 18 before us in planning, I 'm one of these hands-on type 19 Commissioners, I go out and look at the properties and 20 stand on them, so it ' s a little different. 21 I agree with the - what the property looked like 22 from the start, it was literally a farm trash pit, and he' s 23 taken that and it' s a hundred percent improved over that. I 24 also have done work out there on some of the other 25 residence out there -- I 'm a service plumber, Master AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 82 1 Plumber in the State of Colorado, and I 've done work out 2 there, and the road was pretty bad and now it ' s greatly 3 improved so there is a substantial change. 4 I looked at the things that Jess has done while I 've 5 been up there working as a plumber and -- and the shop that 6 he erected out there, and I watched how things were 7 happening and how people came into the - into the business 8 area. And I 've - to tell you the truth, I never did really 9 see anybody stirring up the dust that ' s beening described -" 10 here. I just - I - I think that this business in itself is 11 one of the - it' s in a location that' s really going to be 12 an advantage to the people who live around it. He ' s taken 13 something that' s -- was literally a dump and turned it into 14 something that ' s going to work well for the community as a 15 whole. 16 Again, with the land usage that ' s coming it behind 17 with Martin Lind, and it ' s going to compliment that, and 18 also with the dairy to the east, it compliments that dairy. 19 I think that one of the things that I would look at as far 20 as a Commission is looking at how the roads are maintained 21 up to that property and make sure that those roads are 22 maintained, which at this point, and I 've been in and out 23 there in the last month, they' re maintained fine, but to 24 make sure that they' re kept to those standards at all 25 times. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO "' DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 83 1 I find that Jess, when he came in -- in front of the 2 Town Board, I was -- the Commissioners Board, I was unable 3 to have any say on this because prior to that, two weeks 4 before that I had signed a contract to that plumbing up 5 there, so I had to recuse myself. So, this is the only 6 opportunity I get to state my opinion on what has happened 7 up there, and I feel that it' s a substantial change. 8 CHAIR MASDEN: Commissioner Geile? R„ 9 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Could you - as a member of the 10 Planning Commission from Windsor, could you show us where 11 the city limits of Windsor are again, please? 12 MR. TALLON: Really, I can' t on this one . If I 13 had known, I would have brought my land-use map in, it ' s a r 14 - actually tonight we 're having another meeting so. 15 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Now, there it is . Put it up 16 here. The reason I asked the question - well, this was 17 contiguous . Isn' t that correct? _ 18 MR. TALLON: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, as a member of the Planning 20 Commission, with all that you've seen here, is this 21 something that Windsor would be - would be interested in 22 annexing to the Town of Windsor, or do you have your Comp 23 Plans and everything else that you have? 24 MR. TALLON: That is something that we would 25 definitely look at annexing in. But again, they' ll have to AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 84 1 bring it to us and we would talk about it at that time. 2 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I realize you don' t have any 3 authority to make that. But I was just kind of curious as 4 to where you see the Planning Commission -- - 5 MR. TALLON: Right. 6 MR. GEILE: - And your Counsel in Windsor 7 , if it was something they would entertain annexing. Thank 8 you. 9 MR. TALLON: Again, tonight we ' re looking at our 10 land maps, all of that ' s going to be in front of us . We 11 have our annual land map review, so we're going to go 12 through that again, because obviously things have changed 13 in the last six months in that area. Any other questions, 14 sir? 15 CHAIR MASDEN: Commissioner Vaad. 16 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yeah. I 'm 17 sorry, I didn' t pick up your name. 18 MR. TALLON: My name is Victor Tallon. 19 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you, Victor. 20 Mr. Tallon, this is a question with a 21 different nature. Are you familiar with Jim Flasher? t 22 MR. TALLON: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And is he still employed as an 24 Associate Planner for Windsor? 0- 25 MR. TALLON: No. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 r -- 85 1 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Was he in June 2003? 2 MR. TALLON: I believe he was . He ' s over in — 3 Evans right now. 4 COMMISSIONER VAAD: And in that position, would he 5 have been authorized to sign the letter on behalf of the 6 Planning Commission regarding the referral to Weld County 7 regarding this property? 8 MR. TALLON: Right. Yes, he would have been 9 authorized. +-4 10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you. 11 CHAIR MASDEN: Any other questions? Thank you. oft 12 MR. TALLON: Thank you. 13 CHAIR MASDEN: Is there anyone else here today aa 14 to speak on this matter? If so, come to the lectern and r- 15 give your name and address, please . Good afternoon. 16 MR. MARTIN: Good afternoon. My name is Ron 17 Martin. I live at 330 Leeward Court in Fort Collins, and a 18 I 've known Jess Aragon for the last 20 years, and I 've done 19 business with him out there at TimberRock. And I think 20 when you look at the situation, it' s a tough one for the 21 existing neighbors within the area because they don' t want 22 to see change and unfortunately change is coming and when 23 you looked at Greeley and the expansion westward that has _ 24 occurred there, if you look at what' s happening at I- 25 t" 25 and 34, and you look at what ' s happening with Windsor and AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO ^ DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 I-9 speak on his matter? If so, come to the lectern and give 20 me your name and address, please. 21 MS. MARTIN: Hi . My name is Lyn Martin and I live 22 at 330 Leeward Court in Fort Collins. And I wrote mine so 23 that I wouldn' t forget anything, so I 'm just going to read 24 it. I 've been a customer of TimberRock through all three 25 locations in Windsor, and I watched them get pushed from -- 86 1 the traffic and on 17 and coming out there, and the change 2 in the zoning that ' s potentially going to occur with the 3 auto mall, that area is going through tremendous change . 4 And unfortunately for people in the neighborhood 5 that live there, it' s "not in my backyard, I don' t want 6 this type of thing. " When you've got a landscaping 7 business like Jess has, they went into a previous farm that 8 was a dairy and it was the dumping pit for the farmer in 9 the area there, and the improvements that he' s done - and 10 then since he became aware of the issues that have arisen, 11 the improvements that he has now gone in and done to the 12 property to make sure that there is a substantial change 13 that does make it more compatible with the neighborhood, I 14 believe he' s done a fantastic job in responding to what you - 15 guys asked from him and hopefully you would support him in 16 the passing of this motion. 17 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, any questions? All right, 18 thank you. Is there anybody else here today who'd like to 19 speak on his matter? If so, come to the lectern and give 20 me your name and address, please . 21 MS. MARTIN: Hi . My name is Lyn Martin and I live 22 at 330 Leeward Court in Fort Collins. And I wrote mine so 23 that I wouldn't forget anything, so I 'm just going to read 24 it. I 've been a customer of TimberRock through all three r" 25 locations in Windsor, and I watched them get pushed from AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 87 1 location to location. I was shocked to hear that there is 2 a possibility that they will be forced to close their small 3 family business altogether, and that I would no longer be 4 able to purchase landscape supplies for my home. 5 My family and I are building a new house and I want 6 to have TimberRock landscape the front yard in November and 7 the backyard in the Spring. I have purchased products that 8 they are holding for me until our home is completed. With 9 the recent restrictions that have been placed on them by 10 the County, I 'm wondering how TimberRock will be able to 11 complete our projects . When I was informed about the 12 opportunity to share my opinion and comments regarding the 13 many substantial changes that have, and are occurring, and 14 not only the TimberRock property, but future adjacent 15 land-uses, I felt strongly about supporting this small 16 family business so that they might have a chance to 17 continue to be a valued part of the community they serve 18 and truly care about. 19 I believe TimberRock is more than compatible as 20 their property, by far, exceeds the appearance and 21 standards for public health, safety, and welfare . In fact, 22 all changes that have been made, have been made because of 23 care and concern about neighbors and customers ' well-being 24 and expressed concerns. The first action for safety and 25 public health that TimberRock made was to improve the AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 88 1 public access road by widening it so that cars can safely 2 pass, by applying chemicals to eliminate dust, and by 3 applying materials that make the road more stable to drive 4 on, especially during inclement weather. 5 All of these changes are easily noticeable if you 6 have driven out there . All of these improvements were made 7 and paid for solely by TimberRock, even though all of the 8 property owners benefit by the improvements. To my 9 knowledge, Jess Aragon, the owner of TimberRock has not 10 asked the other property owners on this road to share in 11 his burden to make improvements . He continues to maintain 12 the road as needed. I think that' s a pretty admirable and 13 amazing thing for someone to do. 14 Another substantial change that TimberRock made has 15 been to buffer sound by adding extensive property line 16 fencing, internal fencing, and numerous trees and shrubs 17 that not only look great and buffer sound and reduce dust. — 18 I have 50 percent usage of my lungs, and when I go out to 19 TimberRock and spend more than an hour trying to pick out 20 landscaping, I have not been impacted. So if there was a 21 dust problem, I would feel it. 22 With these changes, TimberRock has less dust than 23 the surrounding neighbors . Some dust is inevitable for any 24 property, especially in rural areas such as this . With all 25 the changes TimberRock has made, you can barely tell it is AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 89 1 a business . The changes have made the site look like a — 2 beautifully landscaped acreage . Most of the landscape 3 supplies are not even visible from the public access road. 4 Most of the products have been strategically placed toward 5 the back of the property, behind tall fencing to shield the 6 neighbors and other customers from sound and dust. And if 7 you know about buildings and shrubs, they do absorb sound. 8 So, I would disagree that they' re just aesthetic. 9 They also store their machinery behind special 10 fencing to block the view from neighbors and customers . 11 Timber Rock has done a fantastic job of addressing the 12 needs of their customers and neighbors and I agree with 13 Ron. Any changes that are made, whether they help the 14 welfare and safety of neighbors or not, the neighbors are 15 still not going to be in for the change because they don' t 16 want it in their backyard. 17 I 've learned that residents have made claims about 18 high traffic on this road. I 've been to TimberRock during 19 various times of the day, and on all different days of the 20 week, including weekends, and the majority of the time I am 21 the only customer the entire time I am there. This is one 22 reason I want to continue to have the option to use 23 TimberRock as my supplier of choice. 24 I am shocked that this small family business is 25 being harassed about traffic concerns when a huge project AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 90 1 to the south is not only being contemplated, but will 2 surely be completed in the near future. This project to 3 the south will truly be the business that brings large 4 volumes of traffic and noise to the area, not TimberRock. 5 TimberRock is not even in the same league with this project 6 to the south at their south of their site. It is 7 unbelievable to me that TimberRock was ever denied 8 permission to operate their business on this property in 9 the first place. 10 It is my opinion that they should be able to 11 continue operating from their current location from this 12 point on. I would like to be able to have my current 13 landscaping projects completed and have the opportunity to 14 use TimberRock for all my future needs . Therefore, I am 15 asking for two things of you. One, that you grant 16 TimberRock the opportunity to operate their small family 17 business during the application process, and two, that you 18 make the determination that substantial changes have been 19 made to the site. Thank you. 20 CHAIR MASDEN: Thanks . Questions of Lyn? All 21 right, thank you. Is there anyone else here this afternoon 22 to speak on his matter? If there is, come up the lectern 23 and give your name and address, please. Good afternoon. 24 MR. ARAGON: Good afternoon. My name is 25 Matthew Aragon. I live at 4507 Goshawk Drive in Fort AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 91 1 Collins, Colorado. Jess Aragon is my brother -- obviously, 2 I 'm speaking on his behalf. To answer your question, I 3 have two concerns . Number one, in regard to the dust and 4 Wellington - excuse me, Weld County is inherently dusty. I 5 lived here for - up to my junior year in high school, which 6 was in ' 83, and wherever we lived in Weld County was dusty. 7 So, you know, looking at - I 've been out to the site 8 a hundred times and I find hard to believe that -- this one 9 doesn't show quiet what I was going to speak about. If you 10 have that other - yes, that one. I find it hard to believe 11 there' s a lot of people complaining about dust from the 12 site. I mean, if prevailing winds come out of the west, _ 13 which was over here and in my view, the only people who 14 would really get affected by that would be the dairy. As 15 Jess said earlier, the cows really didn' t seem to mind 16 that. The other folks I understand, are up in this area, 17 which is the - where is that, the subdivisions in the north 18 and then these folks over here which - I can' t even - well, 19 (unintelligible) property could barely see their house. 20 This gentleman here I can still understand, his ideas that 21 they have some dust issues but again, as the prevailing 22 winds come from the west, I find it hard to believe. 23 As far as substantial change and what Jess has 24 done out there, it ' s tremendous . And again, as he said 25 before me, that you have to go out there to take a look at AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 92 1 it and see what he 's done because it' s pretty amazing as 2 that type of business - I 've been with numerous businesses 3 of this type and it ' s just amazing to me that he' s done 4 that much, you know, to run that type of business. Most ^ 5 people wouldn' t do that. I mean, landscaping on a 6 landscaping site, you know, you' re supposed to supply 7 materials, and not create landscaping. It ' s pretty amazing. 8 So, I feel that he has substantially changed his 9 previous application in terms of, you know, the way site ' s 10 set up to mitigate the dust, the noise and what-not. I 've 11 been out there numerous times and I feel that, you know, 12 I 've never actually seen dust other than, you know, errant 13 wind blowing dust in a dust devel, or something like that. 14 When you have a dump truck to dump some material, yes, it 15 creates some dust, but that dust quickly settles and the 16 dust, is blown away by the wind which is a prevailing wind 17 again out of the west. 18 As far as noise, Jess has all essentially new 19 equipment that is all very quiet. I was out there the 20 other day and he ' s running his biggest machine which is a 21 big lift, a front end loader and that - that machine barely 22 makes any noise . It ' s amazing to me. Obviously, trucks 23 and vehicles are going to make noise. You get plenty of 24 noise coming from County Road 17 and that' s just but the 25 nature of having a highway there . People drive by speeds AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 93 1 in excess of 50, 60 miles an hour, that creates noise. 2 As far as the lane goes or road, whatever you want to 3 call it, I was out there when he originally located this 4 location, and it was really just a couple of dirt ruts 5 going back to those properties . Now, it' s a very wide 6 gravel road, it ' s very safe and at times I 've driven out 7 there, there only one or two times where there 's actually 8 two vehicles on the road, it was myself and maybe one of 9 the neighbors . He' s got signs posted -- I think that it ' s 10 a very safe lane to go ingress and egress to his site. I 11 think that covers what I was going to say. 12 As far as the uses being compatible, it amazes me 13 that, you know, we have a type of business like my 14 brother ' s where you have stockpiled goods and whatnot. We 15 have a dairy right next to where they pile up manure, you 16 know, 12 feet high and we have same type of thing with 17 Jess ' thing, but it ' s rock and rock could be very 18 attractive that' s why people buy it. I think that ' s got to 19 be used. With regard to Champion Auto Group moving into 20 the south, I don' t see that as being a very compatible use 21 and yet, most likely over the next, you know, four or five 22 months that would be allowed. So. 23 CHAIR MASDEN: Can you wrap it up? 24 MR. ARAGON: Yes . I tend to get a little 25 worried. So - but anyway, that' s all I needed to say and AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO '� DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 ,. 94 1 thank you for your time . If you have any questions for me. — 2 CHAIR MASDEN: Thanks . Questions? All — 3 right. Thank you. 4 MR. ARAGON: Thank you. 5 CHAIR MASDEN: Is there anyone else here this 6 afternoon to speak on this matter? If so, come to the 7 lectern and give your name and address, please. Seeing 8 there is no one else to speak on this matter, I will close 9 the public comment portion and have the applicant come back 10 to the lectern, please. Do you have any comments about 11 some of the comments that were made during the public 12 comment portion? 13 MR. ZIER: Yes sir, thank you. I 'd like to point 14 out a couple of things with regard to the -- again I 'm Rick 15 Zier on behalf of the applicant. With regard to the 16 Intergovernmental Agreement and the different areas that 17 are designated for different uses with Windsor now that 18 were not known in October of last year, it is also the case 19 that outdoor storage is not -- is a prohibited use south of 20 the TimberRock property in the principal use area. It is 21 not a prohibited use in the TimberRock secondary areas . 22 So, I wanted to point that out. That is expressly provided _ 23 in the documents you have. 24 With regard to some of the neighbor comments, most 25 of their comments dealt with matters relevant, if at all, AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING &VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 95 1 to the USR in general . And I understand that there ' s a 2 blurring of that line because of the many issues here, but 3 there was not much that I heard that really related to 4 whether or not this application was substantially different 5 from the last application or whether I don' t remember much 6 testimony, if any, on whether or not the adjacent land-use 7 differences that we maintain exist now and were not known 8 in October. 9 It seems to me that the neighbors ' main evidence on 10 this point is that we are still asking for a landscape 11 business, and so that' s not substantially different. That ^ 12 is not the standard of the code. The code says if the 13 application is substantially different, and that doesn' t 14 mean that the use itself should be different, if the use ^' 15 itself were different, we wouldn' t be asking for a 16 rehearing, which is what your code calls for, a rehearing 17 on the principal use requested. That' s not one of the 18 grounds we' re asking for. That would be a wholly new 19 application, we ' re free to submit one of those today. We ' re 20 asking for a substantially similar use, but we are 21 substantially increasing and changing the mitigation of 22 that use because we've listened to the neighbors. 23 But again, the neighbors ' reasonable concerns of 24 noise and dust, traffic safety and, I would emphasize, 25 visual, was a part of the County Commissioners ' resolution AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 96 1 last time, though the neighbors dispute that. The Planning 2 Commission on September 7th of this year, in their 3 resolution, made expressly clear that visual was an issue 4 that had been identified by the County Commissioners . We've 5 taken that very seriously. A lot of effort has been put 6 into looking at the property, walking the property, trying 7 to get vantage points from where the neighbors are, to 8 reasonably look at what their concerns are and absolutely 9 mitigate those, not just visually, but including visually. 10 And I think starting with the visual aspect of it because 11 that ' s what you see when you come west on the easement. I 12 think we 've gone through in depth what the changes to the 13 application are and I won' t belabor that . 14 With regard to traffic safety, which was an issue, 15 the concerns of the Board were based on falsely high 16 traffic counts that were given for the first time at the 17 County Commissioner meeting, not at the prior Planning 18 Commission meeting a year ago. The applicant did not have 19 rebutting information. We now not only have objective Pima 20 rebutting information that shows that the traffic levels 21 are low, but also we have information from Mrs . Weinmeister 22 who submitted it to try to argue a case - the lawsuit, and 23 submitted, I think to the County Attorney' s office, and 24 those are the figures that our Traffic Engineer has used 25 together with his own counts . AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 97 1 So, I think that the traffic safety has also ^ 2 improved by the improvements that have been made to the 3 road. Now, in October, the Board felt it was a shortcoming 4 in what the applicant was proposing that he was not 5 proposing to two-lane the road beyond his driveway. That' s 6 in the minutes and in the record of that hearing. The 7 applicant has now, west of his driveway, raised the road a 8 number of feet, scores of tons of material, and road base 9 have been added, an expensive culvert has been put in. In 10 the rainy parts of this year, it worked very well -- that 11 benefits the neighbors to the west. It does not benefit 12 TimberRock and its customers, other than that it is a nicer 13 aspect to the front of the road and so it' s certainly an 14 aspect. But this is a high traffic safety matter that ' s "— 15 been greatly improved at TimberRock' s sole expense. 16 If you look at all that they've done on the road and 17 then grading it on out to the County Road, to County Road 18 17, and the dust abatement and so forth, that benefits 19 everyone on the road, that has been solely at their expense 20 and it far, far exceeds by percentage anything else that 21 the neighbors have done during the time that the applicant .. 22 has owned the road. _ 23 There has been interestingly some road done by the 24 other neighbors to the west, farther west of the Aragon 25 property, which has widened the road to make it more of a AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 98 1 two-lane because our feeling was that the neighbors were 2 complaining about a bottleneck of single-lane by our side, 3 that bottleneck continued to the west. But the neighbors 4 have now widened that not nearly with the amount of 5 material and work that TimberRock has done, but now the 6 road is much safer. We weren' t asked to contribute to 7 that. Had we been asked, we would have contributed our 8 fair share -- we ' ll remain willing to do that, but we have 9 not asked for contribution for the improvements that have 10 been made to that road. 11 I would agree with Mr. Morrison. In my experience, 12 I 've been doing land-use since 1978 in urban Colorado. I 've 13 seen one other instance where a dead-end private road was 14 jointly owned, rather than that it be an easement from - — 15 through property A accessing, you know, accessing B, C, and 16 D. This is a much better, much more ironclad right of 17 easement, and it' s as if we all jointly own the 18 condominium. We all have the equal right to go on - in any 19 part of that condominium and it ' s that iron clad of a 20 right. 21 So, I think they've been very responsible in their 22 time of ownership of this adjacent property which has an 23 equal right to use that easement . What they have done in 24 Colorado law provides that co-tenants on a road have the 25 right to make improvements as long as they don' t impair the AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 99 1 use of it for access purposes of their neighbors . Well, 2 they have not only not impaired it, they have vastly 3 improved it because most of the neighbors are not affected 4 by the in-and-out traffic to this location since TimberRock - 5 is just one property away from the County Road and the 6 three primary historic opponents of this - there ' s one to .. 7 the north who has spoken today. But the three main 8 opponents are farther west and are not affected by that as 9 far as their livability of their lives . 10 So he' s done his share, this far exceeds what was 11 proposed for traffic safety purposes originally, and all of 12 these things also that are proposed now far exceed even the 13 conditions of approval that were recommend by Sheri at the 14 prior hearing. So to me, those are the relevant things 15 that are in evidence. I 'm concerned about Commissioner 16 Geile' s seeming skepticism about whether or not it was 17 common knowledge that the adjacent land-use to the south 18 was going to be what it now publicly is declared to be. And 19 I don't mean to put words in your mouth, sir, but I don' t 20 think that there ' s anything in evidence that the neighbors 21 or the staff has put in evidence that would give rise to 22 that skepticism. Other than that I think a gut feeling 23 maybe on your part, sir, that naturally these things are 24 probably in the works for a long time and word would have 25 leaked out and so forth or a real estate firm like The AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 — 100 1 Group would know about it. 2 First of all, if my clients had known about this, 3 , believe me, it' s something they would have brought to the 4 County' s attention because it is something that would have 5 helped their application. It makes more compatible a 6 commercial use on this property because this is a vast, 7 mixed commercial plan now, where it wasn' t before . I think 8 also that as far as I 'm concerned, from the record of the 9 hearing, the staff wasn't aware of it and the staff is more 10 in that orbit. 11 And the real question is, "Is this newly discovered 12 evidence to the applicant?" It is . "Was it something that 13 with reasonable diligence they should have discovered?" and 14 I would say "What is the level of reasonable diligence '- 15 under your ordinance for the doing of that?" The testimony 16 is that Cindy Rubiano went to the Town of Windsor and asked 17 what was planned on that property and was told - was not 18 told anything about this . The Planning Commissioner who was 19 here from Windsor didn' t say anything about that . I 'm not 20 aware that anybody in Weld County was aware of it. That 21 came out of the hearing, and certainly it would have come 22 out had somebody known about it. So it just seems to me 23 that that ' s a little conjectural and we can only go with 24 what we know. We did not know about it until after the 25 hearing. I think it was known about by certain parties but AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)4434433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 101 1 it was not disclosed and there are probably good reasons 2 for not doing that. I would, in that connection, like to 3 submit. 4 CHAIR MASDEN: On that, I will - — 5 Commissioner Geile? 6 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, first of all that' s 7 conjecture on your part and probably an opinion. This is 8 opinion on your part that I know, but let me get back to 9 your client ' s statement that he came to you because he 10 couldn't find a lawyer who wasn' t representing Martin Lind 11 -- he made that statement. I assume that comes from some ^ 12 kind of a problem or issue, and we all know that Martin 13 Linde owns this land that' s going to be developed on 34 and 14 17 . 15 MR. ZIER: I don't understand the point. The 16 attorney cannot disclose confidential client information to 17 my client, or a would be client. 18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: No, I mean your client made that 19 statement that he couldn' t find a lawyer who wasn' t 20 involved with Martin Lind, and he finally found you, which 21 tells me that he ' s had some discussions with Martin Lind, 22 and/or lawyers representing Martin Lind, and my question at 23 the time should be, "Were some of those discussions 24 concerning the auto dealership or the zoning or whatever it 25 might be on 34 and 17?" AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO '- DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 102 1 MR. ZIER: Did you ask my client that? I think 2 you should ask him that. 3 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, I 'm asking you, Counsel. 4 I guess you can be evasive if you want and clever if you 5 want -- this is no courtroom, okay? So what' s your answer 6 to that question? 7 MR. ZIER: Sir, I was not privy to those 8 conversations . How on earth would I know that? But I 9 think when you conjecture that those discussions must have 10 dealt with Martin Lind or this or that. 11 CHAIR MASDEN: That' s not conjecture. Let' s 12 continue. 13 MR. ZIER: Well, I 'm sorry. I think I 'm in a 14 no-win situation with that line of inquiry, sir. I would - — 15 if I am permitted, I 'd like to submit copies of the Martin 16 Lind letter that went into the Board in May of last year 17 prior to the last hearing. The reason the attorneys could 18 not represent my client is, as this letter shows, Mr. Lind 19 was in strong and strenuous opposition to the prior 20 application. That put the end to that conversation with 21 those attorneys . The important part of this letter for 22 purposes of today is that Mr. Lind, in May, was saying to 23 you, and he did not correct this prior to the October 24 hearing if he knew, so how would we know and how would the 25 staff here know, that nothing industrial or commercial was AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 103 1 planned in the area of this application? So, it is clearly 2 relevant and that is what we had a right to rely on, so to 3 the extent there was a duty to inquire or do due diligence, 4 this should have put it to bed. 5 In addition, the testimony is Ms . Rubiano asked the 6 Town of Windsor about what was planned on there and was not 7 told of these plans to change it into mixed commercial . So 8 again, I don't know what more can be said about that. 9 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Let ' s move on. 10 MR. ZIER: I think it' s also important to ask what 11 does "substantial" mean. Substantial doesn't mean — 12 completely different, nor does it mean something deminimous 13 and of no meaning. It means substance over form, but it 14 doesn' t mean that this entire application has to be — 15 different. We think there are huge differences between 16 what was originally asked for and what is being asked for 17 now. They have been demonstrated in what has physically 18 occurred on the property, but whether that had occurred or 19 not is not the issue today. The issue today is the 20 difference between the prior application and the 21 application now. We think it is appreciably, substantially 22 and not just form and cosmetics . We think it is very 23 different, and it is clear that it is directed to the 24 concerns of the Board voiced in its resolution last 25 October. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO - DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 104 1 So we appreciate your concern, we would appreciate 2 the ability to come forward and prove that what we have 3 done, does in fact mitigate because the efficacy of the 4 mitigation is not the issue tonight, or today. The 5 substantial difference between what is being asked for and 6 the land-uses next door are what is at stake under your 7 resolution. Thank you. 8 CHAIR MASDEN: All right. I will bring it back 9 to the Board for discussion and determination. Commissioner 10 Vaad? 11 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will 12 make a statement about my findings . I guess I ' ll start 13 that by saying that I 've listened to the testimony 14 carefully and I also reflect back on the instructions of 15 Counsel when we began about what the issues are that we' re 16 to consider in the case of the matter before us, and that ' s 17 the substantial change. And yet virtually all of the 18 testimony was about the USR, which has been previously 19 stated by Counsel for the applicant. 20 But I think I 've been successful in separating those, 21 and if this comes back to us as another USR application, I 22 suspect I ' ll hear it again and would consider it 23 differently. I find that the applicant has met three of 24 the requirements establishing a substantial change of 25 condition in regard of the current status of this AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO '� DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 105 1 application, and significantly so. Number one, the nature 2 and the specifics of the application are definitely changed 3 and remarkedly different, and I think the evidence is 4 before us on the easel . That was the depiction of the 5 application to the layout that happens to be titled 6 original site plan, and on the right the new site plan 7 that ' s different in layout and specificity, and that makes 8 no statement about whether it ' s acceptable to me or not, 9 but it' s clearly a different application and may or may not 10 reflect how it winds up that it should be successful on the 11 next stage. 12 There are changes as far as the item number two 13 in the surrounding land-uses, and these uses have changed 14 to a lesser extent and are changing in a significant way if �- 15 we ' re to believe the newspaper publications about what ' s 16 intended for around the area. But for sure there has been 17 change to a lesser extent and a smaller business is going 18 on. As to the third item, should the applicant have known 19 or been able to discover the evidence of the substantial a. 20 changes or things notknown by him at the time of the 21 original application. We have the letter dated June 6, 22 2003, on - a Windsor lettehead signed by Jim Flesher, which 23 we've heard from a member of the Planning Commission, did 24 represent and was authorized to sign for the Planning 25 Commission of Windsor of what the intent was for the land AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433 COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 106 1 at that time. 2 We also have the IGA which was officially signed on 3 August 9, 2004, so a year and two months later, which was 4 substantially different. I think it' s unreasonable to 5 expect a normal person to disregard an official 6 correspondence, and after he has received it or received a 7 copy of it, and then go out and try to prove that it was 8 wrong. So, I think the applicant was going by the official 9 correspondence from Windsor at the time of the original 10 application -- things clearly have changed now with the IGA 11 between Greeley and Windsor. So Mr. Chairman, when it ' s 12 appropriate I 'm prepared to move to grant the request for a 13 conditional, or substantial change determination. Thank 14 you. 15 CHIAR MASDEN: Thank you. Commissioner Jerke. 16 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My 17 findings are somewhat similar, but perhaps a bit different 18 than Commissioner Vaad' s . I guess my first question is 19 somewhat philosophical with respect to whether or not it ' s 20 appropriate to actually do the physical changes to the 21 application while you don' t really have an application in, 22 and while you had been turned down. So that' s a deep 23 philosophical question that my colleagues and I will 24 probably have some discussions on it at other times as to 25 whether or not we need to revise our code. And so I 'm AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 107 1 guessing that the writers of this code originally would not 2 have ever contemplated that someone would have simply gone 3 out and done those substantial changes while they did not 4 have a leg to stand on, and that ' s exactly what this 5 applicant has done. So with respect to that, I don't find 6 that those are substantial changes, because I think that 7 that is in violation of what the intent of the writers of 8 the code would have been in the first place. And to have 9 done that I think is in violation, even though the changes 10 may well have been well attended and very good changes in 11 that. 12 However, on two other counts I do find that you do 13 wind up having substantial change that you probably 14 couldn' t have known about. I ' ll bring up the dairy first, 15 the dairy a year ago is this quiet little dairy that nobody 16 talked about and nobody knew anything about it at all . 17 Well, about a month ago I toured that dairy, that has been 18 changed dramatically to become an educational facility for 19 the dairy industry, and they have lots of guests and they 20 may well go retail in their what, half a mile or whatever 21 from Highway 34, and they bring in people regularly for 22 educational purposes . So, it is a substantial change to 23 have your next-door neighbor going to a far more retail, 24 high-visibility type of a situation. I know that they had 25 an event there this last Sunday even. So - so it has AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 108 1 changed pretty dramatically in my opinion. 2 The other things obviously that Commissioner Vaad 3 has already cited is the mega auto store. We simply did 4 not know about that a year ago, and I believe that that is 5 a substantial change for the area and it really begs the 6 question: when you put in a store of this potential size 7 and of course, they have not broken ground yet, when you 8 put a store in of this size and you have literally 9 thousands of cars and thousands of people milling about in 10 that general area quarter of a mile to half a mile away, I 11 think you'd have pretty significant change with the 12 neighborhood at that point. And this will certainly be 13 brought up further should they be successful in this 14 application with respect to substantial change . At this 15 point unless I hear something that will really change my 16 mind, I would be inclined to believe that substantial 17 change is occurring on those final two points . 18 CHAIR MASDEN: All right, thank you. 19 Commissioner Geile. 20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Sure. I concur somewhat with 21 Commissioner Vaad and Commissioner Jerke. First of all, I 22 concur with Commissioner Jerke as far as the violations on 23 the property since it' s -- since they moved there and of 24 course, a very aggressive business plan evidently to move 25 ahead at any time they would question they just kept moving AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING & VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 ^ 109 1 ahead and the violations ensued and consequently we ' re in 2 litigation over all of that. 3 So, as Commissioner Vaad said, you have to separate 4 that, and we have to separate that as we're taking a look 5 at the substantial change today. I could - would love to 6 question Counsel on his client-privilege issue, but I 'm not 7 going to do that simply because I do know that the IGA that .. 8 was dealt with between Greeley and Windsor was a very 9 complicated document that took months and months to 10 develop. And of course, when you' re into those kinds of 11 complicated discussions things almost change weekly and 12 monthly. So, it would be impossible for the applicant to 13 know exactly how the zoning overview would lay over - would 14 come over this land, especially when you' re talking about 15 revenue sharing, you' re talking about water, you' re talking 16 about sewer and responsibilities associated with all of 17 that. And that really wasn' t completed until within the 18 last six months those conclusions were coming - were 19 developed and final decisions were made . 20 So from that point of view there would have been no 21 way that any of us could have known - well, most - at most 22 very few people could have known exactly what was in those 23 negotiations, what was involved and certainly the applicant 24 would not have had access to those discussions and 25 negotiations . And along that line as I take a look at some AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 110 1 exhibits that go back to describe what Windsor' s, as an 2 example, what their land-use, I guess you might say the 3 comprehensive plan is to find what land-use in the area 4 would be. And as we've seen, the evolution of the IGA, 5 Intergovernmental agreement between Windsor and Greeley, 6 that whole concept has changed. And that has changed since 7 October of last year, just what I 've seen here and what we 8 now know about the Itergovernmental Areement with Greeley 9 and Windsor. So, I do find that there has been a 10 substantial change and that substantial change is going to 11 affect this whole area. It's going to happen and as 12 testimony has been presented, I think that the people in 13 the area need to be very, very sensitive as to what 's going 14 on, but the fact of it is that land use has started, has 15 changed. So as it relates to land-use, Yes, I think there 16 has been a substantial change . Surrounding use, I think as 17 Commissioner Jerke has defined, we ' re already beginning to 18 see the evolution of that with the dairy and for those two 19 reasons, I find that there is significant, substantial 20 change to move ahead with - or I will be supporting the 21 motion when it is made, but for those reasons, not because 22 of what has happened on the property, that it would justify 23 hearing another application. 24 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner — 25 Geile. Commissioner Long. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 111 1 COMMISSIONER LONG: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess 2 I see things - I guess - I don't know if I call it 3 considerably different, but at least somewhat different 4 from my colleagues in regards to the criteria because I 5 remember the testimony and some of the testaments that were 6 brought today relating to the testimony previously and 7 reading some of the record was that we were basically 8 talking about the nature of the business, not really 9 aesthetics inside of it, necessarily. There were some dust 10 concerns with that, but it was outside with the traffic and 11 then just the nature of the business, and I guess from my 12 standpoint to substantiate a change, there would have to be 13 a change in the nature of the business, maybe a different 14 route, buying different land or something to have a 15 different access point on to County Road 17 or something 16 like that. 17 But I really haven' t seen anything other than 18 aesthetics regarding criteria number one and how this 19 land-use applications substantially changed. It' s going to 20 change and be able to mitigate, in total scope, the nature 21 of the business . Under number two, the nature of the 22 surrounding land use has substantially changed. I still 23 see no - I see the dairy and I, too, visited it. I also 24 know that dairies have visitors all the time. I don't see 25 the great change there enough to be able to be substantial AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 112 1 in my mind. ^ 2 And our resolution, calling up from the other 3 previous hearing, basically our testimony -- or our 4 findings were incompatibilities with property to the north. 5 And not -- anything specifying property to the south. So, 6 I feel that the second one has not been followed or been 7 fulfilled. In regards - I guess the way I look at it, any 8 new information or evidence being discovered it was widely 9 known that there were discussions between Greeley and 10 Windsor, even three years ago, with regards to - there is 11 an agreement being looked at as far as an IGA and a 12 corridor which, you know, it ' s going to find everybody that 13 would read it that there 's going to be a change in this 14 area. We don' t know if there ' s going to be a mega car plex 15 - complex going there. We know that there ' s going to be 16 some changes, but to specify what it' s going to be, at this es- 17 point, I think it would be premature, so I think it' s - for 18 me it' s a matter of timeing, and there ' s as much definitely 19 known now as there were three years ago. So, for me the 20 fourth criteria has not been met. So I would not be in 21 support of calling this a substantial change. 22 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay, thank you. Well, I agree 23 with my colleagues in certain aspects of this . Looking 24 through this and listening to the criteria and looking at 25 the site plans and what physical things have been done that AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO '- DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 113 1 the site plan has changed, the plan itself and the site 2 itself has changed. _ 3 So, I feel that that, number one, is a substantial 4 change. Number two, we have the dairy that has changed 5 since then, so some of the surrounding properties and the 6 land uses have changed in that regards . Number three, "Has 7 the applicable provisions of the law substantially 8 changed?" I don't think the law has but there has been 9 discussion with Windsor and Greeley some of the things 10 going on there. And number four, I believe that there has 11 been new evidence on certain things that has been 12 discovered, so I do believe that there has been on three 13 out of the four criteria that we have to take into 14 consideration have changed and I would be in support of the 15 action for the substantial change. Commissioner Geile. 16 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yeah, I did have a question of 17 Counsel . Mr. Chairman, if I may, we have a litigation 18 that ' s running its course. Somewhere - somewhere down the 19 line that' s going to be heard and the determination of the 20 Court is going to be made concerning the issues of that 21 litigation. In the meantime, if we were to approve this 22 today, the substantial change, and the applicant were to _ 23 move ahead, my question is "What happens? Does there need 24 to be an operational agreement formed with the applicant as 25 to what they can do and what they can' t do until that is AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 114 1 approved or how exactly will that move ahead?" 2 MR. MORRISON: Well, I haven' t been approached, but 3 I 'm sure there was a need to find out what your decision 4 was going to be before we discuss the litigation with the 5 applicant' s other attorney. Right now, my understanding of 6 the order is, basically, they' re still not to operate. The 7 goal here is to get a decision timely enough that if it' s 8 successful they' ll be able to re-open with a permit. I 9 mean, that ' s my understanding of the discussions of Mr. 10 Zier that they hope to go through this process and if 11 successful, initiate the application for the USR and then 12 be able to re-open in the Spring. Right now, they' re not 13 to be operating. So, you know, we can approach them. I 14 guess I would wait for them to approach us if they thought 15 that was necessary. Timing-wise, they may be able to get a 16 decision quickly enough if they're ready to go on and 17 they' re out close to - ready to file their application that 18 we won' t have a - a big issue. 19 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Well, I guess my preference is ^ 20 and I, , Lord knows we've been at this case a long time and 21 I apologize for prolonging it. I 'd like to get a 22 determination, Counsel, because it ' s my preference is that ^ 23 this facility not operate until we've heard this case. 24 MR. MORRISON: Why - and that' s what the order - 25 that' s - the order is in place, so. AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO -- DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 115 1 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But I 'm talking about if - if 2 this substantial change is approved today, then they will 3 go ahead and resubmit a USR. 4 MR. MORRISON: And -- and -- 5 COMMISSIONER GEILE: And will not be allowed to 6 operate until we've heard that USR and made a determination 7 concerning the USR. Otherwise, all we do is head for more 8 and more and more conflictual problems. 9 MR. MORRISON: Well, and that ' s my understanding •- 10 that - of what the order means is that they are not - that 11 this is one small hurdle if they are successful that they 12 haven' t completed the next, more significant hurdle, and 13 that they need to do that before re-opening. 14 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But, if I may Mr. Chairman. 15 CHAIR MASDEN: Um-hum. 16 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Did 17 I hear you say that they' re interested in getting a permit 18 to reopen in the fall? What all does that mean -- - 19 MR. MORRISON: No, in the Spring of -- . 20 COMMISSIONER GEILE: In the spring of. 21 MR. MORRISON: I mean, the USR. And if you want to 22 ask Mr. Zier for - if I 'm correctly recalling our _ 23 conversations, it was his goal to get, you know, if they' re 24 successful here, to push ahead with the application as soon 25 as possible so that it could be heard so that if they' re AGREN-BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO -- DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 .� 116 1 successful there they would be in a position to open next 2 Spring. 3 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But they would not open until 4 the USR had been dealt with? �- 5 MR. MORRISON: That's my understanding - that' s my 6 view of what -- - 7 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Okay. 8 MR. MORRISON: -- the order means and unless a 9 change is made, that order stays in place even though 10 they've -- 11 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Because if motion has made to 12 approve the substantial change. I would -- I would ask 13 colleagues to consider making that a part of the motion so 14 there ' s absolutely no doubt as to what they can do and what 15 they can' t do during the duration of this hearing. 16 MR. MORRISON: Why, I think if you make a record 17 that it ' s you' re - that' s your -- that ' s your understanding 18 but it' s really not a part of the consideration. If you 19 want to make it clear that that' s your understanding, that 20 they will have to go through the remainder of the process 21 before re-opening. 22 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Maybe if I could, Mr. Chairman. 23 CHAIR MASDEN: Yes . 24 MR. MORRISON: And I 'm hoping Mr. Zeil will -- . 25 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I would ask the Counsel to get AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO '� DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 ., 117 1 their Counsel back to make sure that ' s their understanding 2 as well. 3 MR. MORRISON: He has given me the okay sign, so. pa 4 COMMISSIONER GEILE: I 'd like to hear him enter it r- 5 into the record. 6 MR. ZIER: I 'm little surprised to be asked back. I 7 concur with Mr. Morrison' s view of that Court order. And 8 it was agreed to by both sides, so -- - 9 COMMISSIONER GEILE: But I - I guess, Counsel I 'd 10 like for the record to have you state to the record what we 11 just described to make sure that there' s no - absolutely no 12 doubt on you or your client' s part as to what the intent of 13 this is . 14 MR. ZIER: I 'm quoting from the Court order and I - 15 that ' s clear as I think I can make it. And this was agreed 16 to by the County and by Mr. Aragon. "The Respondents shall 17 cease all business operations of any kind on the site on/or 18 before October 15th, 2004 . " So, no more importation of 19 material, no more exporting of material, anything related 20 to the business shall not occur on that site after 5 days 21 ago. Number two, "Business operations", and actually this 22 is number 5 of the order, but "business operations may 23 resume on the site only if and when the Respondents are 24 granted approval and fully complete the Use by Special 25 Review process from Weld County, or are granted approval AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 118 1 and fully complete the annexation and land-use process for 2 the Town of Windsor, " which I guess is a - is a prospect if 3 we were to drag our feet, but it' s not our intention to do 4 that, so -- 5 CHAIR MASDEN: Alright. Commissioner Vaad. 6 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yeah. I 'm prepared to make a 7 motion if you would allow me to ask the Counsel one more 8 thing. 9 CHAIR MASDEN: Please. 10 COMMISSIONER VAAD: If you could confirm - my 11 understanding or disabuse me of my misunderstanding, but I 12 thought I heard early on in the day that some of the things 13 like dust abatement, and I can' t remember what the others 14 were done -- were done in a response to Court order 15 stipulation, and not necessarily as an effort to circumvent 16 the whole process here. That' s what I had thought I heard 17 and understood. 18 MR. MORRISON: I don't think that' s exactly 19 correct. I don't think, for instance, putting dust /Oft 20 abatement measures in place on the site violates the Court 21 order, that may have been what was meant, but the Court 22 order wasn' t specifically requiring -- 23 COMMISSIONER VAAD: That ' s wasn't a significant 24 misunderstanding or a significant part of my decision 25 anyway, but I thought that that' s what I was hearing. So, AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING &VIDEO "• DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 ^ 119 1 Mr. Chairman, I would move the grant for request for a 2 determination of substantial changes . 3 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Second. 4 CHAIR MASDEN: I have a motion by Commissioner 5 Vaad, second by Commissioner Jerke, to approve the request 6 concerning the substantial change by "Substantial Change 25 ^ 7 Regarding Use by Special Review for Marcelle Geudner, c/o 8 Jessie Aragon. " Are there any further - 9 COMMISSIONER LONG: Just request roll call vote Mr. 10 Chairman. 11 CHAIR MASDEN: Okay. Any further discussion? All 12 right, can we have a roll call please? 13 CLERK: Glenn Vaad? 14 COMMISSIONER VAAD: Yes . 15 CLERK: Dave Long? 16 COMMISSIONER LONG: No. 17 CLERK: Mike Geile? 18 COMMISSIONER GEILE: Yes . 19 CLERK: Bill Jerke? ^ 20 COMMISSIONER JERKE: Yes . 21 CLERK: Rob Masden? 22 CHAIR MASDEN: Yes . The measure passes four 23 to one. We have no further business . We are adjourned. 24 Thank you for coming today and staying, and your testimony. 25 AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING& VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 .� 120 STATE OF COLORADO ss . CERTIFICATE COUNTY OF ARAPAHOE ) I, Christopher Boone, Notary Public within and for the State of Colorado, do hereby certify: That the foregoing proceedings were transcribed from a digital recording and thereafter reduced to typewritten form under my supervision, and that the same .. is, to the best of my ability, a true and correct transcription of the proceedings as I was able to hear them on the digital recording made available to me for re-recording transcription; That I am not related to or in any way associated with any of the parties to said cause of action, or their counsel, and that I am not interested in the event thereof . In witness whereof, I have affixed my signature and seal this 30th day of November, 2004 . My commission expires August 16, 2006 . r vlNOTARI.°.m` • -••e- • e OW CLICtrc _ tBLIG00OTIYIQ OF Christopher Boone, Digital Recorder AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 A 81:10 85:15 86:20 90:23 allegations 12:9 applicants 3:6,20 4:3,16 5:8 aback 31:11 94:7 alleviate 61:7 6:8 abatement 42:12 57:15 addressed 24:16 allow 60:14 118:7 applicant's 2:24 14:24 114:5 97:18 118:13,20 addresses 14:22 22:4 allowed 1:11 28:22 29:1,5 applications 69:23 73:21 — ability 9:8,14 33:9 69:19 addressing 24:15 89:11 34:3,5 39:24 93:22 115:5 111:19 76:19 104:2 120:9 adequate 19:4 allows 4:21 applied 2:7,8 41:1 48:14 able 14:1 29:19 48:18 60:7 adequately 14:22 18:23 almost 58:12 109:11 applies 18:1 80:12 87:4,10 90:10,12 19:7 58:22 60:23 already 36:13 68:2 74:3 apply 1:12 8:24 17:25 31:21 105:19 111:20,25 114:8,12 adjacent 17:19 27:11,11,15 108:3 110:17 42:12 114:15 120:10 44:7 55:21,23 56:14 58:8 Alright 2:5 118:5 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57:17 59:24 agricultural 15:20 12:5,25 13:20 14:13 18:9 aside 36:5 address 8:1 11:17 14:24 15:9 agriculture 71:23 20:25 26:24,24,25 50:14 asks 18:25 16:2418:319:2 23:22 ahead 10:1 19:21 67:6 80:11 59:3 94:9,15 96:18 97:4,7 aspect 96:10 97:13,14 - 24:12 25:23 35:4 36:14 108:25 109:1 110:20 97:21 100:12 104:19,23 aspects 3:19 41:24 57:14 37:22 60:12 62:2 66:9 113:23 114:1 115:3,24 105:18 106:8 107:5 109:12 112:23 67:14 70:1,3 74:7 75:1 air 42:11,11 109:23 113:22,24 assertion 76:16 Page 1 — AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 assessed 12:18 50:17 96:15 Bill 80:4 119:19 built 49:10 66:12,13,17 Assessor's 15:19 basically 8:5 13:23 41:13 bit 46:6 69:2 72:3 76:15 bump 76:4 _- Associate 84:24 42:16 56:18 58:7 64:8 79:13 106:17 burden 10:19,24 88:11 associated 60:22 109:16 79:23 111:7 112:3 114:6 block 45:9 47:2 49:11 89:10 buried 57:24 58:2 120:14 basis 5:4 8:2,3 31:2 42:18 blocks 34:23,25 35:1,5 52:12 businesses 17:21 63:3 65:6 — assume 101:11 78:12 blowing 92:13 72:20 92:2 assuming 35:22 bathrooms 5:21 81:15 blown 92:16 busy 26:17 assured 77:5 Beacon 62:21 blue 28:19 39:22 buy 37:14 93:18 attempt 69:6 bear 23:21 blurring 95:2 buying 69:1 111:14 attempts 64:10 bearing 14:8 board 1:8,10 2:10,15 12:1 ._ attended 107:10 bears 16:6 17:15 18:8,15 19:5,9 23:23 _ C attention 100:4 beautifies 64:17 23:24 24:3 25:8 26:4 31:23 Cadillac 73:17 44-4 attest 13:3 beautiful 62:7 50:24 54:25 56:21 60:18,21 call 12:16 24:18 93:3 111:2 attitudes 14:25 beautifully 89:2 61:1 69:15,19 74:3 83:2,2 119:9,12 attorney 11:19 13:2,19 33:6 beautifying 51:22 96:15 97:3 102:16 103:24 called 19:13 28:6 59:22 33:7,16 101:16 114:5 became 86:10 104:9 62:24 64:4,18 72:8 attorneys 13:6,9 102:17,21 become 61:3 107:18 Board's 14:20 22:4 calling 112:2,21 Attorney's 96:23 becomes 8:3 body 9:8 19:25 calls 95:16 attractive 45:3 49:12,19 bed 61:9 103:4 book 50:25 came 13:5,11 16:17 28:12 93:18 beening 82:9 Boone 120:4,25 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75:2 away 34:21 44:1146:7 54:14 108:4,16 113:10,12 bring 8:11 13:24 30:3 34:5 Carroll 25:4,4 65:9 92:16 99:5 108:10 below 51:14 67:2 76:3 84:1 104:8 cars 48:23 88:1 108:9 — awful 50:15 beneficial 45:8,9 107:14,21 case 6:11 7:7 8:24 19:15 benefit 48:20 88:8 97:11 bringing 8:8,13 22:11 34:4 20:17 34:15 35:14 70:13 B ._ benefits 42:25 48:21 57:20 brings 90:3 71:2 79:10 81:3 94:18 back 5:15 8:20 13:5,11 19:24 58:4 97:11,18 broke 50:7 96:22 104:16 114:20,23 31:20 33:9,21,23 35:19 best 25:23 32:7 33:25 42:22 broken 108:7 cases 37:8 51:8 72:7 89:5 93:5 94:9 49:7 58:20 120:9 broker 75:6 case-by-case 5:4 101:8 104:8,14,21 110:1 Bethany 61:2 brother 91:1 cause 120:14 117:1,6 better 41:23 42:25 48:3,15 brother's 93:14 caused 23:16 backbone 72:13 48:19 49:21 53:20 73:25 brought 8:6 22:18,21 70:18 caution 7:22 background 7:25 98:16 83:13 100:3 108:13 111:6 cautious 52:20 _ backs 44:17 between 4:18 6:16 15:5,25 buffer 47:12 50:8 51:10,21 cease 8:10 117:17 backyard 86:5 87:7 89:16 21:8 24:13 32:19 51:10 75:24 88:15,17 Center 31:1 bad 82:2 57:8 103:15,20 104:5 buffering 54:5,8 57:15 centered 24:1 Ballstadt 5:1 106:11 109:8 110:5 112:9 buffers 56:13 certain 12:11 17:6,7 56:22 banner 28:4 beyond 12:15 55:9 97:5 build 28:8 72:13 75:8 57:4,14 100:25 112:23 bare 3:25 big 9:6 41:11 42:6 54:6 58:4 building 5:20 22:25 43:6,9,9 113:11 barely 88:25 91:19 92:21 63:10 67:2,8 73:11,12,15 43:12,14,17 46:25 48:24 certainly 7:25 10:21 16:6 -- base 25:13 48:15,18 97:8 92:21 114:18 49:1 61:8 87:5 19:19 39:2 61:10 97:13 based 3:18 7:23 26:22 31:24 biggest 92:20 buildings 58:21 61:4 89:7 100:21 108:12 109:23 Page 2 AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 CERTIFICATE 120:2 clearly 23:20 53:13 56:14 77:5 81:17 82:20 83:10,20 concerning 19:25 56:22 certify 120:5 103:1 105:9 106:10 84:4 85:6 96:2,18 105:23 59:7 101:24 113:20 115:7 Chairman 1:3,3,21 11:18 CLERK 119:13,15,17,19,21 105:25 120:20 119:6 23:4 26:3 29:21 34:7,13 clever 102:4 Commissioners 1:9 2:16,23 concerns 9:19 12:14 14:23 35:25 50:12 76:10 80:5 client 101:16,17,17,18102:1 11:1817:15,2018:5,7 14:24 21:2 24:15 31:8 — 81:11 104:11 106:11,16 102:18 25:19,21 31:12 54:25 55:1 36:15 60:19 63:1 73:14 111:1 113:17 115:14 clients 100:2 59:6 81:12,19 83:2 95:25 87:24 89:25 91:3 95:23 116:22 119:1,10 client's 101:9 117:12 96:4 96:8,15 103:24 111:10 challenge 70:13 79:16 client-privilege 109:6 Commissioner's 2:11 12:9 conclude 55:6 Chamberlain 78:6,12 close 6:21 72:17 87:2 94:8 Commissions 60:18 concluded 55:2 Champion 28:8 78:6 93:19 114:17 common 20:14 99:17 concludes 27:4 chance 87:16 closest 44:10 community 31:9 32:15 62:9 conclusion 56:8 changed 3:1,3,5,6,17 4:5,7 closing 7:1 71:8 75:23,24 78:1 82:14 87:17 conclusions 109:18 40:9,19 55:13,15,20,21,23 code 2:23 11:6 55:11 95:12 Comp 83:22 concrete 3:24 21:21 55:24 57:23 67:23 71:5 95:12,16 106:25 107:1,8 companies 74:14 concur 108:20,22 117:7 _ 75:9 84:12 92:8 105:2,13 codes 69:5 company 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26:1,8 37:13 complaining 91:11 98:2 conflicts 13:7,9 33:5 43:6 Chimney 75:3 60:11 62:1 63:24 67:5 74:7 complaints 42:8,9,9 conflictual 115:8 chloride 3:23 74:25 85:14 86:19 90:22 complete 67:25 87:11 confused 23:15 choice 78:16 89:23 91:12,22 94:6,9 96:11 117:24 118:1 confusion 23:16 chose 21:16,19 24:11 100:21 104:2 109:14 completed 47:5,14,14 48:9 conjectural 100:23 chosen 21:13 comes 9:2 65:3 101:11 48:25 51:15 52:6,7 53:15 conjecture 101:7 102:9,11 Christopher 120:4,25 104:21 87:8 90:2,13 109:17 115:12 connection 101:2 chunk 72:21 coming 27:20 31:20 33:18 completely 67:23 103:12 Connell 74:9,10 Cindy 16:7 27:6 32:21 33:18 39:8 45:7 63:12 64:11 complex 112:15 conscientious 68:6 75:4,9 100:16 67:21 72:19 82:16 85:22 complicated 109:9,11 consequently 109:1 — circle 66:7,8 86:1 92:24 109:18 119:24 complied 22:20 74:20 consider 2:23 10:2,12 11:4 circumstances 1:7,11 3:1 commend 62:8 compliment 82:17 70:14 74:21 104:16,22 14:12 15:12 31:7 32:12 comment 23:5 31:21 46:15 compliments 82:18 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100:8 constitutes 79:24 80:1 81:7 Page 3 AGREN•BLANDO COURT REPORTING&VIDEO ". DENVER(303)296-0017•BOULDER(303)443-0433•COLORADO SPRINGS(719)635-8328•GREELEY(970)356-3306 construct 43:14 44:20 120:15 40:25 41:7,7,13 54:7 63:6,8 depicted 5:5 77:9 constructed 46:23 counselor 1:18 10:18 11:1 63:11 82:18,18 86:8 91:14 depicting 57:13 58:9 constructing 61:4 18:17 35:11 50:16 93:15 107:14,15,15,17,19 depiction 57:1 105:4 construction 43:5 47:7,14 count 5:8 14:7 23:21 27:23 110:18 111:23 113:4 depicts 47:13,19 51:14 52:3 48:24 counter 37:17,19 damaging 31:25 depth 96:12 — consultants 24:4 37:23 Counties 13:7 date 6:22 8:9 17:7 22:14,14 describe 7:14 110:1 consumers 41:8 country 65:6 53:9 56:23 described 82:9 117:11 contacted 13:3 counts 26:16,21 96:16,25 dated 22:17 56:20 105:21 description 1:13 contacts 20:11 107:12 dates 17:7 57:6 design 12:16 24:17 31:14,14 contained 25:20 County's 15:2 100:4 Dave 119:15 37:24 60:4 contemplated 90:1 107:2 couple 19:10 56:4 58:7 Davis 24:24,24 designated 16:2,3 94:17 contents 31:23 67:16 93:4 94:14 day 5:14 6:16 8:7 31:16 designed 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