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wilkTurd of Commissioners Date October 8, 1.
COLORADO From County Council - Vicky 42S. .
Public Hearing on County Engineering Dept.
Subject:
The Council would like you to have a copy of the transcript
of the captioned hearing.
I have tried to transcribe it as accurately as possible, but
some parts of the tape are virtually impossible to hear.
We hope this information will be of some help to you.
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cc: Ralph Waldo °P7,-f .. :, `?.'.:EqS
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PUBLIC HEARING ON COUNTY ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT - SEPTEMBER 6, 1984
The public hearing regarding the Weld County Engineering Department was
called to order by Weld County Council President Ralph E. Waldo, Jr.
Mr. Waldo: I want to thank each and every one of you folks that have come today
for coming. We have a subject to discuss that is a very interesting one and an
important one. The purpose of this hearing today is for us to hear what you
people out in the country or in the city, in the county, have to say about roads
and bridges. It would be my hope, and it designed to be a meeting that would be
constructive and not destructive. In other words, if we have suggestions to make,
why this can be used as a place to make suggestions that can be considered
then by the powers that be and be acted upon. We do hope that we keep it in
the realm of constructive criticism if. it is going to be criticism, and if it
is praise, why we welcome that too. Now if every one shows up that is signed
up to come, we will have about 24 people that want to speak and we are going
to divide that into 2 hours so we get through here about 4:00 p.m. We are going
to time this thing and you are going to have five minutes. We would like you to
come up to the podium over here and if you would start off by giving us your name
and your address and who you represent or your occupation. That is for the reason
that if we know that about you, we know a little bit and can kind of evaluate what
you say a little. So if you will do that, we would like to hear from all of you.
I would appreciate it if all of you would sign on the sheet of paper there at the
door before you leave. Now the first one on the list is going to be a County
Commissioner. This is John Martin, our County Commissioner.
I 'm John Martin, County Commissioner. I represent the County Commissioners.
First of all , Ralph, I would like to thank you for allowing us to have the first
place on the agenda. The reason we wanted to do that was so we could make some
general statements about the roads and bridges as it might answer a lot of questions
people have and it might give them a little bit of understanding of the Road and
Bridge Department. We don't think this is the time and place for specific problems.
If anyone has specific problems they would like us to deal with, we would like to
have them write those on a piece of paper, sign their name and address or phone
number so we can get in touch with them, and give them to the secretary of the
County Council and we will respond to them as soon as we can. We want you to know
that we are making every effort to get all the benefits we possibly can out of your
road and bridge dollars. We will welcome any, comments you might have in regard to
the Hyland Associates investigation and we do hope it will help us to improve our
department. That is about all I want to say. I would like to turn it over to
Drew Scheltinga, our engineer, and let him give you an overview of the Road and
Bridge Department.
I'm Drew Scheltinga, County Engineer. I would like to start off with going over
a few things, and put a few basic facts together and, as John mentioned, we would
like to kick this meeting off with reviewing some of these things that we have
done recently and some thoughts we have. You have before you a packet of informa-
tion. What I would like to do is just walk through it. For those of you who would
be interested in the audience, we do have a few extra copies of these and if we do
run out, we would be glad to supply more. A few of the basic facts. The road and
bridge system itself is 2,708 miles of graveled roads. There are 578 miles of
paved roads and that is enough mileage to connect coast-to-coast, New York to
San Francisco, with about 100 miles left over. There are 714 bridges strewn through-
out that system. This is by far the most extensive road and bridge system in the
Public Hearing Page 2
state in terms of counties. The 714 bridges is 1/3 the off systems bridges in
the entire state. What has been the demands on the road system? What are the
effects of these demands? Population basically between 1970 to 1980 has increased
about 38% based on the census figures. Vehicle registrations from 1973 to 1983
has been a 27% increase. We all know this county is changing dramatically and
is growing dramatically. We all know that oil and gas exploration has had a
very dramatic effect on our system in more recent years. It is difficult for me
to try to express that to you in terms of miles of damaged roads or that sort of
thing because it is difficult to measure what the oil industry might do as opposed
to what somebody else might do, but I think all of us can see what happens to the
system when we haul the heavy loads over the top of it and then put pipelines
underneath it. It certainly has an effect. Another major effect is inflation.
This year we are trading in four motorgraders. We have asset numbers listed there.
They are anywhere from 10 to 14 years old and you can see the prices they were
purchased at were anywhere from $21 ,088 to $41 ,263. Let's say they averaged
$30,000 each. This year we bought six John Deer 770A motorgraders for $74,116
each. That' s on the whole over 100% increase in cost. I remember dealing with
asphalt in 1966. I don't remember exact figures, but asphalt was less than $20
a ton. Today it is right around $180 so inflation, as I am sure we all know,
has had a dramatic effect. One other thing that I think is important for all of
us to understand is one thing I don't think we realize, that is the level of
funding that we are putting into road and bridge here in the county. If you pay
$1 ,000 in county taxes, roads and bridges get $29.08. What the assessor collects
for all the school districts, all the special districts, everything else, road
and bridges will get, according to 1983 figures, 3.6%. So really, as far as
local dollars percentage-wise, I don't think people realize what a small percent
that we are actually putting into road and bridge. A last comment here on some
of the basic facts are some of the cost comparisons with other counties. We list
Boulder, Larimer, Adams and Weld. Their mileage and their expenditure per mile.
On top of our neighboring counties, Boulder county, 701 miles, their budget figures
would relate to something around $7,500 a mile. Weld County is on the bottom
with 3,286 miles total . Our average is around $2,300 a mile. We will stop talking
about money and try to make a very important point here. I would like you to flip
to the graph we have on the second page. In 1981 , we had an inventory work, or a
backlog of work that needed to be done on paved roads alone. Now I want to direct
you just for a second to just paved roads. We have a backlog of work of anywhere
between 100 and 120 million dollars. Now that work might vary from anything to a
seal coat to total reconstruction, whatever the road needed. But 100 to 120 million
dollars is an awful lot of money. I am not here to tell you the road and bridge
system is in good shape. The road and bridge system is not in good shape. It is
deteriorating very rapidly and it is deteriorating at a much more rapid pace than
it is being repaired. The important thing to note on this graph, if we don't
remember anything else about any of the other statements that are made today, you
can see that over the lifetime of the road that this graph represents, from a road
that is built brand new that would have a rating of 100% over its lifetime, average
is somewhere around 20 to 25 years, depending on the integrity of the original
construction, but anywhere from 15 to 25 years. We will have a 40% quality drop in
the road over 75% of the lifetime. Over just another few years, another 15% of the
lifetime, we will have another quality drop of 40% and really this is nothing magic.
I think you can remember roads that have been constructed that you have driven on
for a long, long time, but then when they start deteriorating, they deteriorate
very rapidly. And the point I am trying to make is that many of our roads, the
ones that we are turning back to gravel or have turned back to gravel , were down
around the 20% zone where it was too costly to repair them or beyond the dollars
we had. If we keep putting off repairing the paved road system, it is only going
Public Hearin
Page 3
to cost us more in the future, and dramatically. Not repairing our paved roads
is going to have a dramatic effect on our graveled roads. I 'll show you that
with some production figures here in just a little bit. One thing we have done,
we have applied to the Energy Impact Committee for money to do a pavement inventory
of paved roads in the county so that we can try to time our repairs in order with
good common sense and try to repair the roads that are at the 60% level , try to
repair them before they get too bad and they have to be totally reconstructed.
Obviously, much more cost effective. Later you might want to refer to the figures
on the very last sheet which is our 1984 contracted projects and note the difference
in cost between totally reconstructing a road to repairing. All right, off on
another topic for just a second. As a result of the failure of the bond issue last
fall , the Commissioners, other staff members and myself have studied road and
bridge very thoroughly and we have made some decisions and have done some things
since the first of the year. Some of those things I would like to bring to your
attention very quickly here, not to try to get into too much detail , but to review
them. One was the reorganization of road and bridge that was done this spring.
You have two organizational charts that show road and bridge and the way it is set
up. The first chart that you have is the old organization that shows nine super-
visors in three divisions. That would relate to the second chart of what the
organization of road and bridge looks like today and that is seven supervisors in
six divisions. There are two basic reasons for doing this. One was that each
supervisor is, as you can see in the new organization, more directly responsible
for its service. In other words, we are split down into divisions like mining,
trucking, bridge, maintenance, support and north and south maintenance is over
the bridge. Those people are more directly responsible for that product
than they were on the original chart. Also, there were two supervisory positions
eliminated. What we did also is we eliminated a construction crew. We have had a
construction crew over the years and we eliminated that operation because it had
been reduced over the years to the point it really wasn't effective any more and
we took those positions and the two supervisory positions and added four motor-
graders to the road maintenance fleet. Very briefly, as a matter-of-fact, it was
approved in the 1983 budget, we are installing a new cost accounting system that
will try to identify the dollars for the services provided, those same units are
going to be the same units the contractors bid so that we can compare our work that
we are doing to bids that reflect every day all over the state. Another
thing we did was review our policies, things like drainage and culverts, weed
control , patching, returning paved roads to gravel . We are in the process of
developing a more straightforward policyplan. Another thing. In March we talked
to several consultants and on July 16, we approved a contract with Berg Associates,
which is a management consultant, and they are going to do a management audit of the
road and bridge system, or they are in the process of doing that right now. We have
contracted for fleet maintenance, which I am sure you have seen in the paper recently.
We have approved a proposal by ARA management ligistic systems. We anticipate to
save approximately $400,000 there. The second last item you have on your little
handout there are production figures and I want to take a second here to make one
point. You can see two lines here, the tons of asphalt in place and the tons of
gravel in place. Every year, as the paved roads deteriorate, you can see the tons
of asphalt have increased that we have had to put out on the roads. The 22,500
represents nearly a half million dollars in asphalt costs alone, just for asphalt.
And you can see the total tons of gravel as being hauled, of course, is going to
have to Referring to the last page, it i give
contracted projects that we have going this year and the cost yon those for ou a run nyour
on the
reference.
Public Hearing
Page 4
I 'm Ethel i
h m
cousin Julia. This concerns BWCRe53�and the access4rroadrtoacefthe oldr Cook arm thee tresidence
and farm. If you don't know where Barnesville is, you do know where Briggsdale
is. They finished a nice, find road to Briggsdale that turns off just a mile
before Barnesville. The road from Barnesville on is in a terrible mess with pot
marks and so on, but I do have something good to say. A month ago, they graveled
it and now you can hit it at almost 30 miles an hour and I am very pleased with
that much. That' s the road that 53 takes us out on. Well , I ' ll start with my
conclusion and then I am coming back to my conclusion again. My conclusion is
that the Weld County road department is not so much to blame for the wretched
condition of the two roads from our home as the relative newcomer who bought up
the land around us and mutilates the road as he decides. However, I do blame
Mr. of the road department and Commissioner Norman Carlson for ignoring
and abetting this neighbor. Also who for two years has viewed this
blatant mismanagement of water and land resources and turned a deaf ear. I do
thank Chuck Carlson for his recent concern about the problem. A few hours after
I called him the road grader was out trying to do something with the horrible mess.
The importance of these roads is they are access for five people to get to Greeley
or anywhere. These old roads served my grandparents. For many years, it served
five residences and farms. Today there are three residences . I remember two car
passage with the advent of the Model T. It served trucks and threshing machines,
and so on.
the Weld County�road wdepartment oredid ad. Ethe accesst road ven the ich �out ine frontofeourehome,
mounting it high in the middle and sloping off properly and put plenty of gravel
on it. Since then they have sporadically graded it at least once a year. Since
then they can ' t do a thorough job of keeping it in shape because of Jack Wells'
mutilation. Example number one: He put in a cement ditch much higher than the
road for about half a mile in the part of the road, no run-off, unless you
want to call it run-off where it spills onto the road. Example number two: One
year ago, Jack Wells dug a ditch about 1/4 mile long in the road to service his
alfalfa field, making the road one vehicle passage and miserable when it spills
over. There is no run-off at all and someone has dumped dirt in front of the
telephone poles and, of course, that helps to hold the water in the road also.
The gravel has been pushed to the side
You i see e
impediments on the south side of the road the next half mile bordering on the
Cook side of the road. The three Cooks farms are down in this corner. This is
road 63 and this is 68 here. You will see none of these impediments on our side
of the road for the next half mile bordering on our road. Jack Wells put in an
underground ditch. It causes no problem. It is to our advantage to see that it
doesn't. On 63, Jack Wells has put ditches to irrigate by and for run-off and
last year, he . Now I want to very briefly mention that
and it caved in the road. That's just across the road, 30 feet from our house.
I guess that pretty well sums it up; however, I did want to state this summation.
Please from the offender as you should have when we first brought this
injustice to your attention over a year ago. I mean Commissioners Norman Carlson
and Chuck Carlson. Please see that he desists. (Picture of road damage given
by Ms. Nesbitt to the Council . )
•
Public Hearing_ Page 5
I 'm Art Anderson. I live northeast of Ault. My occupation is farmer and I wish
I had an engineer' s salary. Up on road 88, a half mile north of me, the county
put in two 36 inch culverts to carry Lone Tree Creek. Half a mile south of my
house, they put in two 36 inch culverts to carry Lone Tree Creek. South of my house,
they put in one 30 and one 36 inch. Now you can guess what is going to happen
when those creeks or those culverts run full . There is going to be a nice big
puddle in front of my house, as there was a year ago and it goes in the basement
of my house. Commissioner Norman Carlson tried to change this and make them all
even and Commissioner Chuck Carlson rescinded it. This has been going on for two
years. Right here the county did a survey on Lone Tree Creek along three roads and
I would guess it cost $1 ,000, this is just my figure. I haven't got anybody
else' s. But I know one day there was 'a five party survey crew and the next day
a three. By the time you pay , you don't get much for $1 ,000. To me, all
they tried to do by this survey is to prove you can put a quart of water in a pint
jar. And that is just what they are trying to do in front of my house, put 36 inch
culvert water through a 30. Now when those culverts were running, I took figures
on the one north of me, the one above my house because water doesn' t lie.
I figure the capacity is about 15% short of being able to carry at full capacity
of two 36 inches. I don ' t know what is going to happen. We had four meetings
with the County Commissioners and we never had all five of them present at any
one time. They refused to vote on it, they refused to change it. Where else do
we go? To me it is a bum deal . I 've worked with water for 25 years, and I don't
think that you with what they've done here. This creek where this 30/36
inch south of my house, the creek always went through this one farm that used to
be my uncle's. They split it and took part of it down the road and part of it
through the farm where it had gone before. But the 30 inch is the one that went
before it and it only took 1/3 of the water and 2/3 is going down the road.
Commissioner Chuck Carlson promised to personally. Now I think as far as
I am concerned the man that owns on Lone Tree Creek down there, if they
split it and ran it in two bunches for an extra mile he's going to lose
most of it. The thing that I want done is I just want equal capacity. In fact,
as the creek approaches the river, I think you should have increased capacity
because you have increased land that can carry the run-off. And that' s all we
are asking for.
My name is Betty Pohlman, 7343 Weld County Road 16, Ft. Lupton. I would like to
know how many County Commissioners are at this meeting. Thank you. I would like
to address my comments to the County Commissioners and Council members. I am here
to speak on behalf of the rural communities in southwestern Weld County. Many of
the people I talked with work and cannot attend a meeting at 1 :45 in the afternoon.
Please excuse me. I am nervous as I have never done anything like this before.
We are concerned about the safety of our county roads. We are concerned about
the condition of our roads. What can we do to improve the condition of our roads?
What can we do to get the maintainer to go by more often and to do a better job
when he does go by? What are the specifications for our county roads?
our County Engineer, but I would like to know what those specifications are. Our
road, number 16, that goes in front of our farm is 28 feet wide. It gets wider,
up to 35 feet in places. We have no ditches. We have no crown in the center of
our road. We do have a washboard. The roadway is lower than the surrounding fields.
Consequently, when it rains, the run-off water runs to the roadway. The irrigation
Public Hearing Page 6
run-off covers roads in places for weeks at a time. In the winter when it snows,
we the road at the lowest point. It fills up with snow. After my
husband and sometimes the neighbors get the snow off to the edge of the road with
tractor blades, the snow melt has no where to go but down the road. When the
maintainer does go by, he is going so fast this is what happens. The blade
bounces from one washboard to the next washboard and cuts it a little deeper.
That's not improving our roads. I want the answer to the question, are maintainers
required to drive X number of miles per hour to cover so many miles in so much
time? This procedure, if it is true, is ridiculous. The soil conditions vary
from one mile to the next. No one standard can be made that will apply to all the
roads in all of Weld County. What the maintainer does next is move a pile of dirt
from the right side of the road to the center on one half. The next half he
moves that pile of dirt to the left side of the road. The blade cuts at the very
edge. It does not cut any of the washboard off where the vehicle travels. That
pile of dirt stays on the left side of the road until the next pass, which varies.
I think we have seen him a couple of times this summer. Then he goes by. The
pile of dirt goes to the middle of the road and is moved over to the right side.
That's it. That' s a waste of his time and our money. The road does get a little
bit wider each time he does this because he does cut to the edge where the ditch
should be. We have the equipment to do the work necessary. We need
or a barrow pit, as I guess the terminology is in this area. Cut the washboards
off of our roads. Pull the existing dirt to the middle of the road to make a
crown. This has to be a gradual process, true. It could be done all at one time,
but I know we don' t have the time or the money to do that. The crown could be
7.5 inches higher than the edge of the road with the dirt, gravel and sand that
now exist. True, some of our roads do have ditches, but they still have the wash-
board effect. The road grader does the same thing there. It gets deeper each time
it goes by. What does a washboard do? As one of our school officials said, it
beats the buses to pieces. We the taxpayers are paying for this. Most of the
people I talked with have personal stories of what it does to their own personal
vehicles, from losing the struts on a brand new Mustang to my own experience of
going to stop at my driveway to turn in and I couldn't find my brake pedal because
the panel underneath the dash had fallen down from jiggling on the roads. What
can we do? We are all taxpayers. We are not getting our money's worth. The
question I am supposed to go back with an answer to is the status of roads 18 and 13
west to the frontage road. These people have been told that it is going to be
reverted back to gravel . If that is true, it will be a disaster. It has been
designated by the Director of Engineering as, a very heavily traveled road. The
residents of Casa Grande have made their complaints about the terrible conditions
in that area in a letter dated August 27th to the County Commissioners from the
Tri-Area Planning Commission. What do we have to do to get some action? Money
is the problem. That is the excuse that people of this county get. The Energy
Impact money, are we not getting our fair share? I read in the paper a couple of
weeks ago that County on the western slope is number one in oil production.
They got $5,000,000. Weld County is number two in oil production. We only got
$326,000. Is that fair? Why are we not getting our fair share? What other sources
are available that we don't know about? Who is responsible for investigating and
looking into that? The prevailing attitudes of the people that I talked to:
Nobody listens. Nothing is done about our part of the county. Nobody cares what
is happening. Our elected officials would like to believe that we don't exist.
It doesn ' t make any difference if the bond issue was passed or defeated, we
wouldn't see any of the money being used down in our area. When complaints are
responded to, it is said, "We' ll look into it. We' ll bring it up at our next
meeting. " But no action is taken. Nothing is done. I do have a letter to Mr.
Public Hearing Page 7
Carlson, our County Commissioner. I would like to request that I be given as
much time as the County Engineer was. You know, if it is input from the people
of the county you need, let me know and I ' ll get a committee organized and I ' ll
have that committee organized within a week. We can give you all the input
you need about our end of the county. This is a letter from the Tri-Area Planning
Commission dated September 5, 1984, to the County Commissioners and Mr. Carlson,
as he' s the chairman. (Letter read, copy attached. ) We want help. We want to
see some action.
I 'm Gary Knapp. Good afternoon. I appreciate this opportunity to come before
you. I come before you with great frustration. Not too long ago, I almost lost
a daughter because of Weld County roads up in the northern area, around Grover.
The maintainer hadn't maintained the road. We got proof from the neighbors
around there, from approximately November to May. When he did, it was only
one lane. As you know, the Grover school bus had a wreck on there. Luckily, no
children were on the bus that morning. It seems to me, in my opinion, that the
road grader people, the better you kiss rear-end, the longer you' ll stay. Proof
of that is a lady that worked for the Grover school district. Her lane became
impassable. Two road graders go down the same road to grade different roads.
The one sympathetically showed a little compassion, pulled in, and graded her
road so she could get to her job and the other maintainer that went down the same
road turned him in. A little squeal system going on. I think this is kind of
typical of some of the stuff going on in Weld County. Very little competence.
I 'd like you to note that I live along Weld County Road 51 . We had a battle here a
while back with the County Commissioners. At that time, I think my opinion greatly
increased over the fact that there was very little compassion shown on this decision.
There were minds made up before we ever presented our case and brought it before
the County Commissioners. Two of the County Commissioners we could not get a hold
of to talk to. I called several times. One was entertaining guests from Hawaii .
The other had an unlisted phone number. This road 51 is very important to us
people. It is a main school bus route. It' s a main route for the people coming
in from northeast Weld County to come into market, to bring their products to
market. There are two roads they use extensively, that is road 51 and road 43.
Road 51 is being torn out as of today, as of yesterday. We feel we presented an
awful good case to the Weld County Commissioners. It was a primary road as of
seven months ago, and all at once it wasn't considered a priority road anymore.
As far as that part is over with, the County Commissioners haven't heard the last
of us citizens out there yet. We're not mad, we just get even. Another item I
would like to bring up is the reason road 51 got in the shape it's in is the
incompetent patch job that was done. If you ever want to watch a three-ring
circus, you should come out and watch the county crews come out and patch that
road. You throw a couple of shovels full of blacktop in a hole and then you
back back-and-forth across it with a truck which leaves little ridges in it.
Then you get water in there that freezes, and the patch pops out. They come in
there with holes sometimes as large as this room to patch. Scatter it out, tamp
it down a little bit, and drive on. And sometimes this took as long as four hours
to get this little project accomplished. They talk about where their money goes.
I can understand if they had done a good job and then the road went to hell , but
when the incompetence is shown to such a great degree, I can understand where their
money goes. It is unforgivable as far as I 'm concerned. There are stretches of
that road that were put in in 1965, somewhere in that area. There are parts of
that road that are better than some of the new roads being put down today. There
are patches they are tearing out as long as 3/4 to a mile long that hasn 't got a
Public Hearing Page 8
patch in it. It' s going out of the way too. The bond issue, this is kind
of funny here. I heard several comments that, "I ' 11 bet the next time they put
a bond issue before the citizens of Weld County, it' ll damn well be passed by
the time they're tired of the conditions on the roads now. " Are we being pun-
ished like a bunch of little children because their bond issue didn't pass?
This is kind of senile as far as I 'm concerned on the part of their thinking.
December of last year when we had our winter, I talked to two or three road
grader people. They were told to open up one lane only. Because of that,
there were several wrecks. One woman was almost killed out in our area, east
of Eaton. She was brought in by the Flight for Life helicopter. Now if this
is competence, we'd better do some checking. The main school bus routes, one
lane only was open for awhile. The same morning I passed a school bus, it put
me in the ditch. I didn't mind that part but when I seen the county pickups,
two, one behind the other, with three people riding in each one, that got me
hot. And then when I went back to the Lucerne maintainer place and the Galeton
maintainer place with county gravel trucks sitting there with snowplows on the
front of them and another road grader parked there, I got even hotter yet. When
I started asking questions, one of the guys was sick and the other one they
moved down to another part of the county to try to open up roads down there
because they were getting more people bellyaching down there than they were
down in this area. I have one last little thing I would like to bring up. I
have a picture here of this famous road that a lot of people in the Grover area
use. I 'd like to make one comment. Because of the incompetence of the road
grader operator on that road, my daughter is living today. As you can see,
there's a of sand and gravel in the barrow pit. When she flew out of the
car, 70 feet through the air, she landed lengthwise on that. That was the only
soft place in 200 yards she could have landed on. So I thank the incompetence
of the road grader maintainer for the life of my daughter. I will give you the
picture and you can put it on your bulletin board or put it in your scrapbook.
I am Doris Williams. I am here representing REM School District which is
I am president of the board. And also as a private rancher
in the New Raymer area. I have handed Mr. Waldo a copy of a report that was made
up in reference to whom it may concern. This report on the condition of the
roads referenced in this statement have been obtained from the bus drivers in
our school district. These drivers traverse these roads 180 days a year, and
that's many hundreds of miles. This report, which I want Mr. Schletinga to have,
is one of the many reports that have been made to our road department in the
last ten years. Eight of those years, ' our superintendant. We have had
little or no response in that area. Although we are told that occasionally we
accidentally get a little gravel . It is costing us a lot of money to transport
these children. We are what you would call a low tax district because we are
surrounded by federal lands and we don't generate a lot of tax dollars. What
comes out of that area, we work darn hard to get. We have two things that we
really see benefits from. One is our roads and one is our schools. We have
a fire
tapaye
and let's hope ditt never bdoes.ut I guIs would s tlike you etonhave this and Ioknowning to fr thenowxthatrs
you do have a copy because it seems that copies continually get lost. So that I
don't repeat all the things that these other people have said, I share their
opinions about what has happened to our area except I have some things that have
happened to me just in the last two weeks. One has been in the newspaper. One
is not because for some reason it was overlooked. Our Road 390, which is supposed
Public Hearing Page 9
to be one of our finer roads in Weld County on August 26th, an Air Force
captain was killed. Are we personally ? Somebody was driving
too fast. Boulderdash. There is a second lieutenant facing a courtmartial .
I hope, Weld County, you are damn satisfied that you are going to simply ruin
the life of a young man that was simply driving a vehicle on one of our very
crummy roads. That road should be posted that you are taking your life in your
own hands when you travel it. Sunday I was checking a pasture, going down road
390. A lady from Cheyenne was meeting me and suddenly, she rolled her car and
demolished it. I cannot tell you how thankful I was to see that woman get out
of that car and walk. She walked away. I don' t know if she's in the hospital
today. I have not talked to her. I have seen no report of that accident.
August 1983 there in the same place on Road 390 a gentleman rolled his car.
He hit the same ruts and away he went, totally demolishing his car. He walked
away from it, but he' ll be suffering from whiplash for the rest of his life.
In of 1983, straight north of New Raymer, a road that is very heavily
travelled, Mr. Tina rolled a car with three children in it. Miraculously
those children walked away from that car. Nobody really knows why. That hole
had been left in that road for at least a month, with no maintenance. She said,
"Yes, I knew it was there, but for just one moment you are not thinking about it
and you have had it. " Under our blowing dust ordinance, which does comply with
the State of Colorado statutes, our County Commissioners do have the prerogative
to charge people who damage our county roads with blowing dirt. It is very
costly to clean up and rebuild those roads. There are several in this county
and I think this is something that must be addressed and very seriously. It's
like driving on the desert when you hit one of these things. You know they are
there so you take it easy, but how many strangers pass through our county that
don't know they are there? There are holes continually ignored. There have
been many of them and it' s just about time that someone gets a handle on
this. I don't know how it is going to be done. I don't think money is the
factor. I think the factor is that we do not train our help with expertise
training and we seem not to . I was told recently that there is a book
the maintainer operators do get that tells them how to maintain a road. Well ,
if roads and are an example of that handbook, two of the better roads
to Road 390, I think your book had better be revised. Two very good
roads were damaged and the only excuse I have heard is that they attempted to
put more gravel on two roads that really didn't need more gravel . They just
needed a little more maintenance and they would have been fine. So it's another
case of our wasting time and equipment and man hours.
I am Norm Brown. I am here to speak for the Weld County Agricultural Council .
I live in Pierce, Colorado. I wish to thank the County Council at this time
for their investigation. I think this is a subject that needs some impersonal
looking into and impersonal reporting. As everybody knows, there is general
widespread dissatisfaction with the county road and bridge department. The Weld
County Ag Council has, over the last several years, had County Commissioners,
County Engineers, and members of the county road and bridge department as guest
speakers and we have heard everything that has been spoken of here today and a
few that haven't. The bond issue failed. I served on the County Commissioners'
committee. It was my personal feeling that there was a financial bind and that
if more roads were to be saved that there had to be more money in our budget.
The people had a chance to make an answer to that, which they gave, and it didn't
Public Hearing Page 10
surprise me in the least. But in working with this, I think we have hit on
several things that some of the speakers have hit on today. A lot of this
comes back to the operators out in the various road districts. A number of
years ago, those operators had a lot of leeway and a lot of say in what they
did. An operator, if he found that hole that Doris Williams spoke of and
those ruts, he'd stop and take care of it and that was it. If you had
something like this in one of the roads, you could stop and tell the operator
about it and he would come do it. Recently, from change, I say I think this
is beaurocracy, when we went into a central district and a lot of central
planning which I think is inevitable. But I think that this has made a
and I think this is part of it. Those operators had to maintain so many miles
of roads going at such and such a speed and they did not have time to do this.
In front of the Ag Council , we had people say that they have asked operators
to take care of a bad spot and they say, "No, we can' t. We would get turned
in. We're not supposed to do anything but go down that road at a certain speed. "
I think this is part of your problem. There is apparently a lack of training.
Whether there is any direction as to how the road is maintained, I don' t know.
The roads were, back several years ago, at least in our area, and I think in
most of the areas of the county, graded up fairly wide so that they were halfway
safe to use. With the change in direction . Everytime a road is graded,
they are cutting back into the shoulder and cutting the shoulder in this way
and narrowing the road down. Some of the roads right now are so narrow that
I took a tractor dry land farmer yesterday morning and on part of these
roads , I had a four-wheel drive tractor , I had about three feet on each
side like this and my carrier took about a foot wider than my duals. I had to
flag up and down these roads and if you think some of these idiots using these
roads appreciate somebody flagging them on a hill where they' re liable to come
over and meet you head on, they don't. They get mad. You put a pickup out
there with flashing lights and you park it in the middle of the road on a hill ,
it will slow them down. This is part of operator training and operator use.
What direction do we have? Do we have any standards of how wide a road is?
This is a question that I think we need to answer. There are a lot of complaints
about dirt on the roads. I heard at the last Ag Council meeting that some of
this is being placed in the center of the road. This is new to me, but this
is in the south end of the county. Now on a narrow road, you pile up a ridge
of dirt a couple of feet wide, a foot or 18 inches high, you just narrow that
road down to where it is almost hard for two cars to pass. You have to aim
pretty good to pass two cars. The other thing they've done is sold off the
mowers and went to a spray to control weeds along the road and this hasn 't been
effective at all . You find the weeds and sunflowers and things growing
up three or four feet tall . So this brings up some questions as far as operators
and I think this is a key to a lot of it. If they are trained properly, they
have proper direction, then that should be a lot of the answer to this. I don't
think it can be controlled out of central beaurocracy which is what I think
has been happening. Now the Ag Council members had some other questions that
they have instructed me to bring to your attention. One of them is
guidance. Another one is why not use concrete or steel culverts on bridges?
The cost of that, there is a lot of counties going to that. A crane can put
a new culvert or a new concrete bridge in very fast. As it is, these bridges
are out for a long period of time. There are a lot of questions about the high
cost of paved roads, why we sold off all the equipment. We seemed to be able
to pave roads when we had our own county equipment. Also, the high cost of
tearing up some of these roads. Does this include regraveling or what does
it include? Some of the farmers said they thought they would like to get a
Public Hearing Page 11
contract for the cost that' s been published in the papers . We have heard a
lot about the destruction of the roads by the oil companies which is very
true. They do destroy it, and I think there should be some answer to that
question. But also the county equipment tears up roads just about as bad
as the oil industry does. These big belly dumps have ruined several bridges.
I could give you details of where they are at. Just speaking of my own road,
88 between 39 and 37, there was a mile of oil that didn' t have a single pothole
in it. It is getting old and beginning to need an . They graveled the
rest of that road. Now with the county trucks going over it, that road is
soon going to be ready to be torn up and destroyed. Their own trucks destroyed
it. They actually destroyed the oiled road. One other thing they asked me
to bring to your attention was that especially in the dry land area, they
have abandoned so many roads totally. Some of those roads are the only
access to some owners. They have become almost impassable. There should
be, at least I believe there should be, a policy that some of these roads be
put on a limited basis, at least so that the harvest trucks and equipment,
can get in and out. The other thing that, of course, bothers us is that
we believe that they should have a policy that carries over from one Board of
County Commissioners to another. We don't believe that this business of
selling off equipment by one Board of County Commissioners and buying it back
and putting it back into use, new equipment into use to replace, is very
cost effective. This is something that shouldn't be done. We shouldn't be
. This is another thing. We feel that they should have written
policies that everybody knows. I have talked to some of the Commissioners and
I find out that some of these questions I have personally went to them with,
well , we have a policy for that, but nobody knows about it. Maybe one part
of the county is doing it and one part isn' t. I think it really should be
uniform. We think that probably one place of improving what we do have
and we're primarily interested in better roads in Weld County.
I am George Meyers, a candidate for County Commissioner at large.
I won't make this into a political harangue. I have been driving the county
for the last two months from one end to the other and I am sorry to say that
I believe these people are telling the truth. Our roads are in trouble.
I would only like to say that I think we lack communication with the people.
I think we have to establish accountability which through input will develop
trust. I think we need decentralization of pur road and bridge department and
I feel very strongly that we need energy impact funds for our roads and bridges.
It doesn't matter how much money that we put into our roads and bridges once
we have established accountability if you allow industry who is taxed and the
energy impact funds are there. We need to establish the damage done to our
roads and bridges in Weld County and go after the impact fund money. Thank you.
My name is Eleanor Dooley and I live at 38970 Weld County Road 51 , near Galeton.
A few weeks ago, property owners and residents along road 51 , between roads 74
and 80, received a letter from the Department of Engineering notifying them
of plans to tear up that stretch of road and return it to gravel . We wrote
a letter signed by 23 property owners and residents along the road and submitted
it to the Commissioners at one of their regular meetings. In it we requested
that they reconsider their decision. Several people spoke against their plans
at that meeting, asking that the road be repaired and maintained. The Commissioners
Public Hearing Page 12
took another look at the road and after several meetings, voted three to two
to tear it up. Mr. John Martin, one of those of voted against tearing it
up, felt that the road should be left to die a slow death. He mentioned the
health problems that the dirt road might cause to humans and livestock. He
said there is no such thing as a good gravel road in a high traffic area. Mr.
Chuck Carlson, our Commissioner representative, felt that at least 1 .3 miles
of the road could be saved. He saw that there were long stretches of the road
where no damage had taken place. They started tearing up the road on Tuesday
and I am angry. You should be angry too. Three Commissioners voted to throw
away $90,000 of your money. And what will they have left after they have spent
$90,000? A gravel road that will require constant maintenance because of
high traffic flow. A gravel road that will create a cloud of dust for us
to breathe and live in, creating a lot of discomfort and misery. Asked
about maintenance funds, they say they don't have any. Mr. Norm Carlson's
solution to a dust problem was , "People who complain have an option to move
near a paved road. " What a ridiculous statement. Mr. Carlson should know
that one of the reasons I purchased my home near Galeton was because it was
on a paved road as other property owners along the road. What were the
Commissioners ' options? They could have believed Mr. Chuck Carlson, who
knows this area much more than the others, leaving part of the road intact
and not spend quite as much money. Or the other three Commissioners could
have believed Mr. John Martin who is, after all , the road and bridge repre-
sentative for the Commissioners, and left the road paved. The other thing
would have been to patch the road up with asphalt every eight months or so at
a cost of several thousand dollars. But it's a far cry from the $90,000
being spent to go back in time regarding our county roads, as we heard from
several Commissioners. Instead they have elected to tear up a road that had
many more years of service in it. ( Mrs. Jackie Johnson was concerned that
the public found for the Commissioners ' road and bridge decisions, wants
desperately to establish credibility with the public. She must realize that
decisions such as the one made on road 51 will not give her that credibility.
You cannot complain about how very little money the county has to spend on
roads and bridges and then equander it on a project such as this and find the
public sympathetic. You are looking for solutions to the road and bridge
funding today. I realize 5% yearly budget increase allowed by the
Home Rule Charter. I believe the 5% limitation must be abolished or a deeper
financial hole will be dug with each passing year. I would like to see the
roads and bridges money shared equally by all users to the roads in the county.
Property owners and trucking companies contribute to the road and bridge budget
but everyone uses the roads, so perhaps some sort of county tax could be voted
on. My last suggestion is for the County Commissioners to use the money they
have wisely. Think about several options, listen to the Commissioners in
whose district the road or bridge in question is located. Talk to the people
who live there. They, after all , know much more about a particular road or
bridge than the Engineering Department ever could.
My name is Steve Ley. I live at 3530 Lynn Street, which is northwest of Greeley.
I am here today as chairman of the Weld County Road and Bridge Advisory Committee.
This is a committee that was formed about four years ago with the charge by the
County Commissioners to advise them in the way that they spend their road
construction funds. Essentially what we have been involved with over the last
four years has been advising the Commissioners of what we think is the proper
Public Rearing Page 13
places for them to spend these funds made available for paved road types of
construction. It has been a very interesting four years. I would have to
admit that it has been an extremely frustrating and probably the most thank-
less task I have ever been involved in. We had to learn an awful lot and we
had to learn rather quickly and I ' ll have to admit the first couple of years ,
we floundered. But we did finally come to the conclusion there was one thing
that was really possible for us to do. We knew there was no way that we could
maintain the number of paved roads that exist in Weld County and we felt the
only way to do it was to establish a system of priority roads. That was done
a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, it was done just before the bond issue
question came up. I have put an awful lot of time into it myself and the
other members of the committee have. We are from all over the county. I
happen to live close to Greeley, but we had . We had a lady from
down in the Mead area. I think we have a good cross-section of people and
occupations and areas. We have worked real hard. We have driven thousands
of miles and we have come to some conclusions that I think are important that
you hear. We at this point see no way in the world that this county is going
to be able to keep up with the deteriorating conditions, particularly of its
paved roads. We have faced the task for three years now and we're coming up
with, in another month or two, for the period of 1985, a budget of $1 ,700,000,
maybe slightly more this year, but I don 't think it is going to be a great
deal higher. But I firmly believe this is a $100 million problem. I was on
the committee that recommended the bond issue last year and we worked very
hard to come up with the right answers. The accusation that this part of the
county or that part of the county wouldn't get any money spent on them is
totally without grounds because it was laid out exactly where the money was
going to be spent. People in the county really didn't want to do that. I
don' t really hold any hard feelings but I do think that we have to recognize
that if we don' t fund this thing properly, the conditions that we have now are
rapidly going to get very, very much worse. I have no doubt that the county
road and bridge department can improve its efficiency, but if we were to become
20% more efficient, that means that we might free up somewhere around $1 ,600,000.
That' s 20% of the total road and bridge budget. That's going to pay for some-
where in the neighborhood of 7 to 10 miles, I would say, and we've got a 500
mile, almost 600 mile problem. The funding just isn't there and I don't know
where we' re going to get the funds. We cannot maintain the roads that we have
as paved roads. My comittee made the very unpopular recommendation to turn
county road 51 back to gravel and we didn' t like it, but we felt it was the only
way that the road could be maintained in a safe condition to travel on.
Patching that road every few months is becoming an unbearable economic burden
and there are a lot more roads in this county that are getting into that
condition. If we turn roads back that are on the priority system, and I think
this is a point that needs to be made, that road remains on the priority system.
If it is torn up, the road then is put back on and to our knowledge, it is done
in such a fashion that if funding becomes available, it will be one of the first
roads to be repaved. We just can't recommend that you spend your money in such
a fashion that' s going to have no limit. It might make things better for a
few days, but that' s about all it is going to do. I feel that we are going to
have to have more funding. I think we have to look at the road and bridge
department as we do any department. Frankly, I am concerned about with constant
discussion and accusations, whether they be acrimonious, helpful , or whatever,
that we' re creating one other problem and that is that we are creating morale
problems within that department. We need to figure out what we are going to do
Public Hearing Page 14
and we need to do it constructively. We need to get after it before these
people become totally demoralized.
Mr. Chairman, and members of the Council , I am Vern Nelson and I am a registered
engineer in a culsulting business here in Greeley. I live at 1237 49th Avenue
in Greeley. I don' t think the subject we're talking about today is just a local
problem and I want to broaden our scope for a few minutes. As we talk about
this problem, I think that we're definitely not alone in this crisis. All
structures and facilities wear out. It is just a matter of time. This wear
requires continual maintenance and/or replacement at some place in time. Again,
to broaden your thinking for just a minute, we citizens of the United States
have taken on the project of rebuilding the Statue of Liberty that has been
sitting there for 100 years. It hasn't really been doing anything or going
any place, but is just flat worn out and it's going to crumble one of these
days if we don' t fix it. I could go on and on and on about those kind of
structures down to the simplest bridge in Weld County, or culvert if you will .
Look at Colfax Avenue in Denver, a project just now being completed. They are
in the process of building, rebuilding, I beg your pardon, miles of I-25,
very close to our doors, many miles of it right here in Weld County. The
funding for that is coming from a federal gas tax. Our problems are recognizing
that all of these things cost money and somebody has to pay for them. This
federal gas tax is coming from tax dollars paid by all of us who drive. The
government does not generate any bucks. Period. In many instances we simply
have used up our facilities without concern for the future. Once a new
structure is built, the costs don 't stop. A fund is required to insure
continued functioning of that facility or replacement of it as it wears out.
Now I travel about the state considerably and I travel our roads and I tell
you, many of them, not all in Weld County, but throughout the state, are an
absolute disgrace to us as citizens of our own destiny, if you will . A good
example is U. S. Highway 24 from Minturn to Leadville. I 'll tell you, you take
your life in your hands to make that drive. That road has been there a good
long time and served a lot of people, but nobody cares about it. Nobody has
taken any real care of it. Not many years from now, there will be a lot
of places in Colorado you won't be able to get to because the roads are not
there. They just are not being maintained. The facilities are not going
to be there. There is lots of money going into the interstate system. It
seems to be an unlimited sum of money, but there is very little funding for
secondary roads. I class anything under the-interstate system as a secondary
road. I think that it is imperative for governments at all levels to turn
this thing around and serve its citizens in a proper fashion. We have to
figure out some way to get funding for these facilities. Maybe it is a new
tax on new vehicle purchases. Maybe it is a gas tax on a local level or some
other method. Somebody mentioned an oil and gas fund. But we have to tap
those sources and get them into the program so we can maintain our facilities.
New roads are very costly. Steve Ley just mentioned some numbers that were
interesting to me. Of course, I deal with those things. But I might mention
that we are just now, during this week, completing 2 miles of new road in Weld
County, in the southwestern part of the county, and the cost of those 2 miles
of road will be right at $900,000; that is $450,000 a mile. Now you are
not going to get very many miles of road with the budget you are talking about
Public Hearing Page 15
here in Weld County when you talk about the number of miles with 700 bridges,
etc. We have got to understand through knowledge of any structure, wear
or deterioration, the replacement cost must be addressed and paid. That's
not being done today. My limited knowledge of the road and bridge funding
within Weld County tells me that department is being shortchanged when we
compare it to the other costs of government that are going on simply as a
result of growth in population. The portion of the total tax for road and
brdige has been decreasing over the past few years while we in turn increase
the number of vehicles that travel our roads. We increase the size and the
weight of those vehicles that travel these roads and, frankly, on many of
them that are old two-lane horse-and-buggy type roads that were built for
that purpose. They may have been there for 100 years with practically no
maintenance. You have got to get that done through funding provided by us
as taxpayers. Weld County does not generate any money except through its
citizens. The money should be spent officially in accordance with a road
development plan such as has been developed by recent studies and committees
developed for that purpose.
I am Dr. Dewey Brown. I 'm a veterinarian from 16317 Colorado Highway 52 in
Ft. Lupton. I ' ve been in practice there about 30 years and drive about 75,000
miles a year on the county roads and state roads. I would like to say that
over the years from the time I started in practice, I certainly would commend
the people of Weld County for the effort they have made in keeping the roads up.
Personally, I cannot condemn any faction of our elected government for the
problems we have. I think in the years that I have been a citizen of this
county that, with very few exceptions, they have done the best they could with
what they have. I personally feel that in the last few years the degree
of traffic, the type of vehicles that we see on the roads, both farm and
commercial , have certainly increased in size and weight. I think that the
number of people involved in this county today compared to 1955 would indicate
a tremendous increase in the use of the roads that we have. Certainly
Mother Nature hasn't been very kind to us with these last two winters.
Unfortunately, it would appear to me from traveling the roads in Weld County,
it takes about half the summer to repair from the winters we have had. I have
had occasion to have damage to my own vehicle from driving some of these roads.
I understand that some of them are better than others and I can appreciate
the problems people have with the roads that they do travel on. I don 't think
that the mill levy that we pay today is as high as it was in 1975. The
one thing that is difficult for me to understand is that my understanding is
that the county is only allowed to increase their expenditures about 5% above
the year before. If we have oil income and we have revenues in excess of that
5%, as I understand, it goes to lower the mill levy. If this is true, I am
concerned that maybe this 5% is kind of a stranglehold on the people of the
county for the use it needs to have in the road and bridge problem. I app said as I forrtheate countyttorhelpyadvise. AsuIderstand he understand,is weahavevate one oftizen theseworking
people
in each different district in the county that myself of any individual could
go to and talk to as well as the Commissioners. I think it is wonderful that
these people have the patience to work on such a committee knowing it is
almost an impossible task under the present situation. I hope that with the
Public Hearing Page 16
constructive criticism we have heard here today that we as the people of
Weld County might find a solution to our problems. We know that the increase
in population is going to come east of these mountains eventually. We know
that inflation has been, in the past, pretty hard to cope with. But we know
too that the demands on these roads is going to continue to get more severe
and as just a private citizen that travels these roads, I would encourage
each one of us to look with favor upon the efforts of people of the county as
elected officials try to help them.
I am Greg Bell . I 'm from Keenesburg. I would like to speak today on the
progress in our area on the roads. I have been there since 1978 and I 'd
like to begin with the conditions from 1978 to 1984. From 1978 to 1981 ,
our roads were just terrible and then in the summertime, the dust was so
bad that I personally . In the spring of 1981 , we received our first
load of gravel . This helped reduce the dust problem and reduced it to a
comfortable level . Also, about this time the oil and gas industry moved
into our area. The severe winters of 1983 brought our roads back to
the way they were from 1978 to 1981 . In December 1983, they began the gas
pipelines down the edge of our roads. Before they got the lines covered
and the trenches packed, the ground froze. So all last winter, we had one
main road. They had 18 inches of dirt that was frozen on the edge of the
road. There was nothing we could do about it then came the spring
thaw . It froze and thawed and froze again and we had ruts like
this. The roads are now graveled. They are graded at a nice level , not
peaked anymore so you slide off the edge. All the culverts are open for
drainage and there is just a considerable improvement. Another improvement
in our area is overlay on road 59 from Keenesburg to road 6 . This
road was previously so narrow that if you had to transport farm equipment
down the county road, there was just two lanes and no shoulders on the road
. I know a substantial amount of money has been spent out there and I
would just like to let the Council and Commissioners know how grateful we are.
I am John Young. I live at 1925 28th Avenue. I have lived in the Greeley
area for about 17 years now and I travel a lot on these county roads. As a
matter-of-fact, I get in about 35,000 miles a year traveling in Yuma County,
Washington County, Adams County, Jefferson County, Boulder County, and I
don't know whether it is any consolation or not, but I don't find their roads
to be in a whole lot better shape. Matter-of-fact, a lot of their roads are
in worse shape than our roads are and I think they have a substantially less
number of miles of roads than we do in Weld County. I don't think we can start
to single out certain areas of the county As I go into Nebraska, as I
go out toward Yuma, and down toward Denver, I don't feel like any area is less
maintained or better maintained than others. I am certainly sure that we could
improve the efficiency of our road and bridge department, but like anything
else, on Monday morning it is awful easy to look at the Broncos and say, "Well ,
if I were John Elway, I would have handled that a little bit different." It is
awfully easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. I think we have to consider
though that certainly inflation factors come in here. I think that is definitely
playing a role in this funding situation. The 5% spending limitation certainly
•
Public Hearing Page 17
has an effect on what the county can do with the funds they have available,
especially when you have a lack of a real substantial growth factor in the
area. Ralph, you and I have talked about this many times, and I think that
certainly is a factor in how the county is going to be able to fund these
kinds of projects. There is no question that we do have a substantial problem
but in my mind, looking at the other counties and the structures that they
have, the Commissioners are doing the best they can with what they have to
work with. I think what we have got to look very seriously at now is how we
are going to try to increase that funding so there is money available. I
frankly think we have so many roads and so many dollars to spend as Mr. Ley
pointed out and I don' t see how in the world we can ever get it done.
I have watched this Road and Bridge Advisory Committee working for the last
four years. I feel like there is input from the citizens all over the county
and I find that important. As Mr. Ley pointed out, it is a thankless job
and I 'm amazed that you guys could hang on that long. When we get through
with all this testimony here today, I would like to know what the County Council
hopes to accomplish by this hearing. Is there a mechanism that you can do
anything about it? I think we have to let the citizens know really where you
guys stand and what authority you really have in this case.
Mr. Waldo: We' re disappointed that the full complement of the County
Commissioners wasn't here today to hear this firsthand. We hope that we can
get a copy of this typed off (it has all been taken on the reel ) , and make
it available to them. But we will turn it over to the Commissioners for
their action. We have no authority to do anything other than to search out
information. But we will present it to the Commissioners and hope that they
will take appropriate action.
My name is Steve Abrahms. I live at 1107 74th Avenue, in a subdivision across
from Hewlett-Packard, with 40 or so homes. I really only have a couple of
personal experiences and observations I would like to make. My
personal experience dates back to last February when the roads began to thaw.
On 71st Avenue the bottom washed out and I got my car buried up to the bottom
of the doors one night about 10:30. The county was out the next day and closed
the road and worked on it very diligently for a couple of days. They repaired
the road, put culverts in and put gravel down and tried to put it back in
place. We haven't had any difficulty since. , Roads are a problem and that gets
me into my other point. Everyone looks very -personally at the roads out in
front of their homes or the roads that they themselves use to get to wherever
it is they have to go. You and the Commissioners are trying to, and Mr. Ley
is trying to do the same, look at maintaining 3,500 miles of roads in the
county as opposed to the 5, 10 or 15 miles of road we might individually use
getting to the places we need to go. I think everybody can always improve what
they are doing. If we had the world's best operators, we would still have a
lot of unhappy people. It appears there is a lack of adequate resources and
that is forcing choices. It kind of reminds me of my mother-in-law. She is
one of 18 children with one mother. I suspect her mother had a very difficult
time keeping all those kids happy and there probably wasn't a very good solution
to that problem except not have 18 kids. We have 3,500 miles of road and not
enough money to take care of them. We can improve training and accountability
but really, without more money, the problem is going to continue to deteriorate.
The taxpayers have not really shown a great willingness to address the problem
Public Hearing Page 18
with the kind of funding that is necessary. In terms of the energy impact
assistance, I just want to make the comment that the Chamber of Commerce
has had the opportunity to work with the Division of Local Affairs. The
Division of Local Affairs supervises the energy impact money and in fact may
be partly responsible for seeing where it is rewarded. Weld County, I don 't
think, is getting anywhere near the share of money it ought to get. I 'm
not sure that
the money belongs atob them sand uought rto bee. h diverted e dtoe owhere theyf the state think
is hit
ought to go. By and large they show a remarkable tendancy to want to take
that money and give it to distressed areas or areas they feel need impact.
We see the same attitude in the economic development. When a prospect comes
to the state, the state has in the past shown a very marked ability to steer
this prospect toward Pueblo or Alamosa or Grand Junction. This very facility
which is being constructed in Pueblo now is a very recent example of that.
I had the opportunity last week to visit with one of the people who is involved
in this process and she had a very closed mind about Weld County's right to
that money. I am just suggesting that while that may be a resource, it may
not be easily available to us. I appreciate the time you are taking to
investigate this problem.
Good afternoon. I am Jim Allen, supervisor of transportation for the St. Vrain
Valley Schools. We are part of Longmont, but as far as you are concerned, our
district covers Mead, Frederick and the Eerie areas. I have been supervisor,
but I this is going on my eighth year. You are probably not going to believe this ,
really you
he poblms we h
had there and tthe kthings athat ohave been done there tome a long way. As I cmakealltsomercorrectionsave
and I also want to thank you for allowing me to put a two-way radio
in on our frequency on one of your graders. In emergency conditions like we
had last year, we would be able to contact you. We have been trying to get
that done for quite some time. I appreciate that. One thing that I would
ask factis more frequent grading the roads
I have amapherewithsomeX'smar in Frederick
kedonithat I n sat d edown aand sworked
on remembering how it was last spring. I haven 't had opportunity to cover
all these roads, but I would, remembering last spring, like you to give some
attention to these if you could.
My name is Larry Linder. Talking specifically about dirt roads, we have in
our campaign been making a criticism which we think is valid concerning the
Augustine studies which dealt with the roads centralization program. We do
not see it as particularly efficient to have centralized manpower and equipment
and particularly, though I am sure decentralization isn 't the right word, but
going back to the concept of siting both vehicles and more importantly, operators
in specific geographic areas, we see a primary benefit from that to be accrued
in terms of direct personnel accountability. Responsibility for specific roads
and accountability for the condition of those roads. We think dirt roads is
probably one of the more critical areas. With regard to the paved road
problem, it is not a simple problem. It is very complex and it won't be
solved by simple solutions. Nor would it be solved by use of the tax
money. Putting it in the proper perspective, the problems haven 't come about
over night. They have been around for a long time and unfortunately are probably
the product of many many years of neglect. There probably will be a need to
Public Hearing Page 19
address an additional burden on the taxpayer whether it is or the
ability to raise . But we should not forget that this problem won't
go away by throwing money at it. That is not the solution. The fundamental
solutions deal with goals and objectives and with identification of
and the changing traffic patterns of Weld County. I think that wisdom is
probably the prudent approach to the road problem as far as asphalt is concerned
and action. There is much that should be addressed. This body as interfaced
with the Board of Commissioners could go a long way toward giving constructive
input if keyed toward the necessity for a comprehensive identification of the
network of transportation planning.
I am Gary Knapp from road 51 . I spoke once before but I would like to say more.
I would like to make two comments I didn't get to comment on before. The fellow
here got up and said the people of Weld County aren 't willing to put out more
money taxwise or otherwise to get their roads increased. I would like to have
you know that my property value is probably close to what it was three to four
years ago. My taxes were increased the last 3 years on my property probably
20 to 30 percent, with an oil road by my house, now which will be a dirt road.
So I beg to differ with whoever made that remark. I believe I am doing my share
when my taxes increased over 20% in 3 years. One of the problems I think this
county has is productivity and I think a good place to start would be the County
Commissioners. I think I have counted in the last six months probably four to
six meetings that all five were present at one time. I have run a lot of crews
and when I run crews, if I can ' t get no more people to show up than that, I
get rid of them and replace them with somebody that will show up to work.
Mr. Waldo: We will close the hearing then and we want to thank all of you people
for coming and listening and speaking and we are going to go upstairs and have
our regular meeting of the County Council .
cc: Commissioners
Councilmen
County Engineer
Betty Pohlman
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