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Home My WebLink About780233.tiff CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPT I , Jeannette Ordway, Deputy County Clerk and Recorder of Weld County, Colorado and Clerk to the Board of County Commis- sioners of Weld County, Colorado , do hereby certify that the enclosed transcript is a true and correct and complete trans- cript of all of the proceedings in the matter of the application of Rolanda Feeds , Inc. , 6509 Weld County Road 51, Keenesburg, Colorado; 80643 , concerning the application of the said Rolanda Feeds , Inc. , for a Special Use Permit for a chicken manure dehydration facility. This transcript consists of the following: 1. The reporter ' s transcript (two volumes) of the proceed- ings before the Board of County Commissioners of Weld County, Colorado on April 25 , 1978 . 2 . Transcript of proceedings before the Planning Commission of Weld County, Colorado on June 21, 1977; January 17 , 1978; and February 7 , 1978 . 3 . Supporters' petition and letters consisting of 20 pages and one map (file number 3) . 4 . Oppositions ' petitions and letters consisting of 132 pages (file number 4) . 5. Application form, materials submitted by applicant, referrals , staff correspondence . Consists of 36 pages and one map (file number 5) . 6 . Planning staff recommendations and Planning Commission recommendations to Commissioners consisting of 12 pages (file number 6) . 7 . Material in Planning Department file after Planning Commission hearings consisting of 21 pages (file number 7) . 8 . Administrative records , Planning Commission minutes , property research, etc. , consisting of 33 pages (file number 8) . 9 . Health Department matters consisting of 43 pages (file number 9 ) . 10 . Board of County Commissioners record including exhibits admitted during the hearing before the Board of County Commissioners , consisting of 59 pages (file number 10) . 11. Newspaper articles consisting of 16 pages (file number 11) . DATED this 28th day of June, 1978 . VirkuiLvvoltuvomtic4ni, MARY ANN FEURSTEIN J r +'t ;�✓ COUNTY CLERIC AND RECORDER WELD COUNTY, CO/DORADO / Jeannette Ordway l Deputy County Clerk fnd� Recorder I and Clerk to the Boal�rd of County Commissioners of Weld County, Colorado MEETING OF JUNE 21 , 1977 MR. HEITMAN: To continue on with our agenda for this afternoon, our next applicant is a SUP-335 : 77 : 9. The applica- tion is in the name of Rolanda Feeds, Inc. The nature of the application is a dehydration facility. The format that we follow is that the applicant will be given an opportunity to state the nature of his application and present testimony in his behalf and to state the chronological order of the applica- tion; then there will be an opportunity by this commission to ask questions and then the staff will be given their opportunity to state their recommendations and their comments, and then we will open it up for any audience participation. It is our intent to give everybody an opportunity to raise any questions or make any statements they want to. We do ask that we try to get out of here at a reasonable hour, so make your comments to the point. It will be appreciated. At this point , I would ask, then, if a representative from Rolanda Feeds would make their presentation. Just use this podium and this mike back here. This is recorded, so we would like to ask anybody that does make any comments to come forward so their comments can be a matter of public record. MR. STOLTE: This must be something else. MR. HEITMAN: Okay , probably. Also, when you do make any comments, would you state your name and address. -2- MR. STOLTE: Well , my name is Stanley L. Stolte. I 've lived and raised cattle, . . I 've had a feed lot in Weld County for about ten years. The other partner in this Roland Feeds is Lloyd Land and Roland Nuss. They have lived and farmed in Weld County. They farm about 3, 000 acres in Weld County for about 13 to 14 years. They farm around the area where we have our facility. I think probably the best thing to do is to give you a little background of Rolanda Feeds and why we ' re there and why we ' re applying for this SUP. Back in 1965, Roland Nuss and Lloyd Land had a Beard dehydrater. They dehydrated some hay and some other things in 1969. They started doing some dehydrating with this Beard dehydrater. Off and on, place to place, it was a portable type of dehydrater, a very small facility. They dehydrated some chicken manure, some poultry waste, some beet tops, some hay. They tried several different things, like a couple of farmers will try and figure out another way to use some more agricultural products. So in 1976 I got involved in this a little bit. We saw a need. . . . As a feed lot manager, I saw a need to produce some cheaper feed, to try and use some more agricultural products, so I got together with Lloyd and, we call him Bud, Roland Nuss, and we started doing some experimenting with dried poultry waste to see if we couldn ' t find a way that the cattleman in Colorado, or anywhere else, could cheapen up their cost to gain, so this is what we did. In August of 1967, we contacted the Health Department, and the Health Department said that we would need a permit to dry any poultry waste, even for our own use. We acquired that permit in August of 1976. We started drying poultry waste for our -3- own use and for our own testing and our research and development . At that time, we saw a need for a bigger dryer, since we were getting this manure and we couldn ' t use it all in the fields, and we thought there might be a possibility. Some other people got involved; some nutritionists got very interested in the product, since it was a good source of protein. They got very interested in this product and thought there would be a need for it , so we purchased another dehydrater, and at that time we called the Weld County Health Department . We told them that we needed another permit to operate this one. They granted this permit in March of 1977. They gave us 180 days from the time of completion to have a stack test and meet all emission laws after our completion date. Our completion date and approxi- mate time was about June 1, so we had our permit about 4 months before we ever started the operation up. About the same time in March, there was a question that arised whether we needed a SUP. The zoning people from Weld County came out and said, "Yes, you do need a special zoning permit , " so we immediately proceeded to acquire this. We filled out all the necessary forms and are now applying for this SUP. I say that we are producing an agri- cultural product . . . . It ' s a feed for livestock; it ' s just another use of an agricultural product that I think some day is really going to catch on. I think that it is a much needed thing. Now, why we need a SUP, because we are in an agricultural zone. Well , I 've visited all the facilities around the United States, and these facilities are all in agricultural zones, because it is an agri- cultural product : Troy, Missouri ; Albuquerque, New Mexico; San Marcus, California; Salt Lake City, Utah. There ' s quite a few _q places that have dehydrating poultry waste facilities, and they are in agricultural zones. They' re zoned in agriculture. Whether they have a SUP or that state requires it , I don' t know. But it ' s definitely the place for this facility, so that ' s why we decided to go ahead and apply for a SUP. Like I say, we are producing an agricultural product and I think some day, it ' s going to catch on and really help. We have, probably, in the neighborhood of 200, 000 cattle in Weld County that are on our products now, not our raw product , but after it ' s put into pellet form. We replaced soy bean meal in the pellet form, and by doing this, we have cheapened the cost up for the feeder, and this is what we 're after. Now in this SUP, we have sent the application. I hope it ' s in order . The legal description of our ground: 80 acres of dry land. We put it on this piece of property because it was dry land, because we don ' t have irrigation water. It ' s a good use for this land. Ownership of the property is in the packet ; our well permits, and we don 't use very much water. We dehydrate the water off. The soil on the sight land inventory, we had the land surveyed, and to make sure that any runoff that we had would go on to our property if there was any from a rainfall . Waste inventory number 8 and number 9, both of our permits. . . .both of our emission permits. . . the one for the small dehydrater and the one for the large de- hydrater. Along with the letter and with the permit for the Weld County health permit is a letter that says we have 180 days; they asked us to go ahead and fire it up, and within 180 days, and I want you all to read that , that within 180 days we are required to have a stack test , and we will comply with this. We didn 't wait 180 days, we didn 't wait 6 months. We ' ve already. . . . -5- and this is an amendment that was sent to Mr. Hahn yesterday. .. we have purchased a scrubber for our facility; we've had one stack test that was a velocity test . We haven 't had a particular test yet , but we feel we need a scrubber on this facility, so we didn ' t want to wait the 180 days, we didn ' t want any problems at all . We've already ordered the scrubber, and within 4 to 5 weeks, we ' ll have it installed. The state said we didn' t have to do it for 180 days, but that permit and that letter is in your package. All the other correspondence with Weld County Health Department . . . . The Weld County Health Department had wrote me a letter and gave me a copy of all their visits to our facility. You've got a copy of that. We have never been in violation with either odor or emissions with our small dehydrater and that has gone on since August . There ' s quite a few frequent visits, and we 've never had any violations at all. We had a little bit of conversation in the neighborhood, and we decided on our own, it wasn ' t requested of us by you people. We wanted to see really how the people did feel , or the general people, not the investors, but the land owners out there, the farmers, the ranchers, the people that aren' t just out there for investment. We wanted to know how they felt about this, so we sent a letter around. . .a petition around. . . to anybody within a five mile radius of us , and we got about 225-250 signa- tures supporting our facility. That ' s included in your packet . Description of proposed existing operation. . .there again it tells just exactly what we have there and what we plan to do there. The only addition would be the scrubber and that ' s been amended. The survey we have submitted and the survey by McRae & Short, the engineers who did the survey of our property and did the exact -0- • drawing of our property. Okay, it ' s been brought to my attention that , maybe, some people don' t know what a scrubber is, and I think that the one we 've ordered is a little unique in the situa- tion we are in today. It ' s a scrubber that holds about 3, 000 gallons of water, and for the people who don ' t know what a scrubber is, you put it on the stack with another blower. It blows all your material , all your steam, through like a fountain or Christmas tree of water. . . several of these. . . and the particulates fall to the bottom of this tank, and this tank is then cleaned out. It ' s a self-contained unit ; it doesn' t require a lot of water, because it is self-contained. We won ' t have a bunch of drain lagoons; we won ' t have any of that . With the water shortage of today, I think it ' s important to come up with a scrubber that you can keep re-using the water. It ' s got an automatic slide sludge conveyor in it that we take this sludge out and immediately re-dehydrate it . The other thing that I think I missed on this is that people that own property within 500 feet of our 80 acres. . .or are requesting this SUP. . .was requested by the zoning commission, and we did go out and we got their full support to grant us this SUP. Like I say, this scrubber is on order, and it will be installed, but you can ' t do everything at once, and we didn ' t quite get it done before this meeting. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, do you have any witnesses, Mr. Stolte, that you want to have anyone present anything at this time, or do you want to continue on with our. . . MR. STOLTE : Well , I brought some people along that live _7_ in a community. . . that live in Weld County that are in the area, and I also brought some people along that I think we do a service for. In years past , and I think maybe that . . . I know the people in the zoning commission probably know about this, but maybe some of the audience don ' t . I was in the same position when I had a feed lot , owned and operated a feed lot. It ' s hard to get rid of waste; it ' s expensive to put on the field, and it ' s just hard to get rid of . Now these chicken producers. . . everybody likes their eggs in the morning, so we have to have these chicken producers, and they had trouble getting rid of their chicken waste. Chicken waste is probably one of the hardest things there is to use as a fertilizer. I brought some of the people along, and I wanted . the main ones along, and it ' s right there in Keenesberg, and the problems that they had in there were just unreal with the flies; they don' t have any problems now with flies. This manure is picked up and disposed of , and we get it from the Hudson gates, and that manure is picked up and disposed of immediately. I think it ' s important that maybe you do hear these witnesses. One of them is Mr. Sheets from R.A. Sheets Poultry & Eggs in Keenesberg; he' s here with me . Mr. Purfurst from Purfurst Oil in Keenesberg is here; he can sure testify on what the fly condition was in Keenesberg before we came along. MR. HEITMAN: If you want them to say anything, why don' t you have them come up at the time you. . . MR. STOLTE: Okay, Mr. Sheets , would you step forward and tell us about the service that we rendered. -8- MR. SHEETS : My name is Richard A. Sheets. I own two -poultry farms in Weld County, one in Erie, Colorado, and one in Keenesberg, Colorado. It ' s a solo company. I own it , my family owns it . We run approximately 100,000 chickens at Keenesberg. This is a growing farm. The other farm in Erie, Colorado, is an egg laying operation; we run about 6, 000 hens there. Between the two operations, we produce approximately 12y tons of chicken manure a day, and as Les said, the chicken manure problem is quite a problem. You have to get rid of this waste somewhere, and, when I first purchased Keenesberg, a guy by the name of Neil Graham, which is general manager of DeKalb Poultry Farm at Hudson, gave me Les' s lead and phone number to contact and see about getting rid of this chicken manure. Of course, I called him up and we got together, and they agreed to take the manure and dehydrate it , take it off the property, and do with it what they wanted to do with it. Since that time, we have had no fly problems at Keenesberg or at Erie, Colorado, on my two ranches. It ' s a tremendous opportunity for me to convert a waste product into some monetary value . There are approximately 26 of us at Erie, Colorado, that have chicken farms, and from what I can under- stand, they are picking up the manure from about 90% of them right now, and I think the board is familiar with the farms of Erie. They 're close together, there are a lot of people congre- gated in the area, and the quicker we can get rid of this manure out of there, the better off we are. The only thing I can say is it ' s a tremendous opportunity for me and for other poultry producers in this area. Is there any questions? -9- MR. IIEITMAN: Okay, we thank you. If you have other wit- nesses. . . MR. STOLTE: Yea, I 'd like Mr. Purfurst to stand up. He's been in Keenesberg for many, many years, and I ' d like him to just make a comment if he would. MR. PURFURST: My name is Lee Purfurst ; I 'm the Texaco dis- tributor in the Keenesberg area, and we operate a retail service station approximately 3 blocks from Mr. Sheets' chicken operation. I cannot emphasize to you people enough of what the terrific, terrible fly problem we have had prior to this year. There' s a John Deere dealership alongside of me; there are three resi- dences to the west of me, and prior to this year, we were plagued, and I mean literally plagued with flies. To give you an example of how bad it was, in the summertime, motorists would pull into our service station , and flies, iflyou do or do not know, are attracted to heat , and from the heat of the motor of that auto- mobile, plus the sun on top of that hood, that motorist would pull into our service station, and I 'm being very, very truthful with you, that hood, immediately as soon as that car stopped, the entire surface of that hood would be covered with black flies, and the people sitting in that front seat really couldn' t believe what they were seeing. And in some cases, when they saw that condition on the hood of that car, they no longer stayed in the driveway, and they bought no product from us. So I would like to say to you, that we ' re very, very happy, we' re very, very thankful that Rolanda Feeds are picking up the manure from Mr. Sheets ' -10- poultry farm. MR. STOLTE: Okay, thank you. Mr. Heitman, I have a couple of other people with us that live in the area but not necessarily a witness as such. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, we could hear them at a later time then when we open it up for the audience. MR. STOLTE: I might want to say one more thing about the fly problem. We don ' t have a fly problem at Rolanda Feeds. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : We do. MR. HEITMAN: Go ahead, Mr. Stolte. MR. STOLTE: We don ' t have a problem at Rolanda Feeds. We spray every day. One thing I want to make very clear, is that we don ' t handle manure at Rolanda Feeds. As soon as it hits Rolanda Feeds, we treat it just like feed, because it is cattle feed, and it has to be made like feed. The people that we sell our product to are very specific on what kind of feed we take down to them as an ingredient , so I just wanted to make that point . We don ' t have a problem with flies at all . The other thing that some people might not separate is that Lloyd Land and Bud Nuss, who have been getting this manure from these chicken farms, not Keenesberg, but maybe Hudson gates, for instance, since back in the ' 60' s, they still use quite a bit of manure -11- for their farms, and they still get it from those facilities. MR. HEITMAN: It ' s not related to this. . . MR. STOLTE: It has nothing to do with this at all. MR. HEITMAN: Okay. MR. STOLTE : We use just a small amount , and it ' s in this packet, the amount that we use. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, at this time I 'd ask the Planning Commission if they have any questions of Mr. Stolte or the witnesses he had. . . MRS. YOST: I have one question. How long is the chicken manure on your premises, for how many days, or whatever , when you bring it in. MR. STOLTE: Up till the June 1, 1977, we had some stock piles of the chicken manure or the poultry waste on our place. That ' s why we saw the need for the new facility. We had to make just a little bit more product , so as of June 1, we started up this other dehydrater to handle the material quite . a bit faster, so we could do it in a day' s time. We have no stock piles of manure on the place now, and in answer to your question, we try, and almost usually, clean up every bit of manure, and it ' s in a storage tank before the men go home at night. We clean up our -12- facility every night, Anyone' s welcome to come on our place, and there 's no stock piles of manure around. We like to bring it in, dehydrate it , and get it in storage. There' s several reasons for that , but quality of the product and protein of the product is one of the main reasons. The longer you leave it sit there and burn out , the less valuable it is as far as protein. if it burns out, then the protein' s gone. So in answer to your question , we don ' t have any stock piles of manure around on Rolanda Feeds. MR. PAUL: Mr. Chairman, could I ask Mr. Stolte. . . 7 MR. HEITMAN: Yes, sir. MR. PAUL: I was out there on May 27. I believe they were hauling manure, and Mr. Land said this was his parcel . Now, is that manure still there, and it ' s pretty close to the "inaudible" . MR. STOLTE: No, that manure is not there any more, and when you were out there, that was ground ear corn that they were dumping. . . MR. PAUL: No, no, no. They hauled chicken manure. The big trucks came in while I was there. r MR. STOLTE: Okay, that was chicken manure, and those piles are no longer there. They ' re all gone; they ' re all cleaned up , and they will not be there any more. It just was a matter of the time -13- of getting everything processed. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, thanks, Mr. Paul , for your question. If there are no other questions, then we'd ask the staff if they would read their comments and recommendation. MR. McWILLIAMS: See attached Staff Comments, dated • June 21 , 1977. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, for clarification, we asked Mr. Paul to come. Mr. Paul, would you state your recommendation and any comments you have insofar as the recommendation. MR. PAUL: Mr. Chairman, the Weld County Health Depart- ment recommends disapproval at this time, until they meet state -emission standards, that is odor and particulates. That ' s all I have on this. Any questions? MR. HEITMAN: I guess the question I have on this is how far are they from meeting the standards at this point. MR. PAUL: _I will turn that over to Mr. Stowe. He is the air pollution officer, and I believe he knows more about that . He is down there quite often. MR. HEITMAN: Okay. MR. PAUL: Mr. Stowe. -14- MR. STOWE: Mr. Commissioner, Richard Fox and myself, from the State Health -Department . . .we made an observation, passed the observation of the large dryer Cyclone on June 14 of this year. On that date, the opacity coming off of the stack measured any- where from D5-50% opacity, and because of this reason, the State Air Pollution Division has arranged a meeting with Rolanda to discuss the results of this testing that we did there. It prob- ably. . . the contention down there. . .nothing has been official yet . The meeting is set for this Friday, but for the large dryer, I 'm pretty sure that the Division is going to recommend denial of that permit . MR. HEITMAN: permit denial , or denial until it meets the standards, which? MR. STOWE : It will be a permit denial. You see, if they can ' t meet the permit requirements, then the permit has to be denied. You see, the way it was set up, Mr. Stolte sent a letter to Dick Fox, stating that May 30 would be the start of date for this operator. . . right . . .would approximately be the start of date. The state has 30 days to make an observation of that plant . We made it 15 days after that date. It was not in compliance at that time. They will have the opportunity this Friday to respond to that observation. MR, ELLIOTT: Well, do you believe it ' s possible for them to comply? -15- MR. STOWE: With the Cyclone, the way it is right now? y MR, ELLIOTT: Well, whatever they have to do? Can they comply? MR. STOWE: They probably won' t be able to comply with just the Cyclone. I think with the scrubber that they 're planning, Z don' t think they' re going to have any problem. MR. ELLIOTT: Well , they 've ordered that, and then if this complies, everything 's okay, right? MR. STOWE: Yes, but they have to get a permit for that scrubber. See, they haven ' t applied for a permit for the scrubber, yet , that I know of . MR. ELLIOTT: Where do they get this permit, from you people? MR. STOWE: They have to get . . . tt 's issued through the Air Pollution Control Division of the State Health Department . MRS . POST: Does the state take only one test on any- thing, or do they. . .usually when you test things, you do it more than once. MR. HEITMAN: Just a minute, we ' ll let him answer you, and then we ' ll give you a chance to rebuttal . Go ahead. Answer the question; she asked if you only take one test . -16- MR. STOWE : One is all . . . if the operating conditions are as they ' re supposed to be, one is fine, yes. One test is enough. If you can build a case and do more than one test and find them in violation, then that 's fine, too. MRS. YOST: Were the owners aware when you did this test , were they there? MR. STOWE: Mr. Land was there, yes. MRS. YOST: - The operation was normal? MR. STOWE : As far as we knew at that time. MRS. YOST: I want to question that. MR. HEITMAN: Mr. Stolte, did you want to respond to that or. . . MR. STOLTE: Yes, I 'd like to ask Mr. Stowe a couple of questions. MR. HEITMAN: Go ahead. MR. STOLTE: Mr. 'Stowe, when you pulled onto the property, when you found us in violation, was the dehydrater in operation? MR. STOWE: When we drove out to the dehydrator . . . -17- MR. STOLTE: You drove into the yard and asked that the dehydrater be fired up, was it in operation? MR. STOWE: We did not ask that the dehydrater be fired up. MR. STOLTE : Okay, who fired the dehydrater up for you? MR. STOWE: I have no idea. MR. STOLTE: It was our mechanic. How did you make this test; what kind of instrument _lid you use. Was it a regular stack testing instrument , or . . . MR. STOWE: No, it is not a stack. . .opacity is measured with the observer 's eyes, with the proper sun orientation and proper plume distance, and things of that nature. We can certify it down at Camp George West in Golden at the state stack emissions place. MR. STOLTE: Do you feel that you could make this test properly with a cold dehydrater, and in within seven minutes give us a clear test "inaudible" about ten tests before "inaudible" violation, and upon coming on the property, within seven minutes, make an accurate test and be gone. Is that what your test is? MR. STOWE : You said ten times before you were not in violation. -18- MR. STOLTE: With our small dehydrater. MR. STOWE: Yes, but I 'm talking about the big one. > MR. STOLTE: All right , I 'm talking about the big one. MR. STOWE: Yes, but you 're not. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, I think there 's some discrepancy, at least we understand some discrepancy. MR. STOWE: 'This is all -the stuff that is going to be resolved Friday. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, so we really can 't make a judgment on this. Mr. Paul. MR. PAUL: Yes, I would like "inaudible" brought this up about the time. I understand Mr. Land called Mr. Etowe up and just really seeing if he would do the job. Well , Dick Fox, he 's from the State Health Department - Air Pollution. . .Tick Fox and he had a meeting with Mr. Stowe and their people in the State Health Department . So, I don ' t think this should be brought up in this here whatsoever. Z think this should be scratched off the record. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, and it ' ll be resolved then later. Okay, we thank you, then, for your testimony. Yes, you have a question? -19- MR. STOLTE: I want to respond, just a little bit, to this, and explain just exactly how this happened, rather than asking questions. MR. HEITMAN: Well , I think we've agreed that we will not consider this at this point in evidence, that we will take whatever is resolved from your reading Friday as your expertise, and go from there, so we won ' t consider. . .and instruct the Planning Commission that we not consider this same as part of the evidence. Okay, is there any other questions from the Planning Commission to the staff or the applicant or Mr. Paul? Does the applicant have anything to add to what the staff has already commented. Yes? r NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Can I ask a question regarding what this gentleman just said. As far as their reading, what was it that made the "inaudible" . I couldn ' t quite understand what he was talking about. MR. HEITMAN: Do you want to respond. We ' re not going to consider. it . Bear that in mind. MR. STOWE: We found 35-50% opacity of the stack. That ' s the amount of light transmitted through the plume. MR. ELLIOTT: Can I ask you a question. Now you tested for smoke, not for odor, right? MR. STOWE : Right . 20- MR. ELLIOTT: This was just a smoke test . MR. STOWE: That was just for smoke. . . MR. ELLIOTT: Smoke emission. MR. HEITMAN: Particulates in the. . . MR. ELLIOTT: Yes, okay. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : May I just ask one question. We 're talking • -about smoke particles and pollution, and so forth. Would somebody explain to me what a scrubber would do to the odor. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, I think Mr. Stolte can, then. • MR. STOLTE: Okay, we brought the man that we ordered the scrubber from. He ' s got about S of these scrubbers on some asphalts plants that are very hard on the air.. - asphalt plants that put r a hundred and fifty ton an hour through them. Mr. Buck Cooper. . . I can ' t remember that name, because we just ordered this thing, but I ' d like him to get up and maybe explain this scrubber to them, _and just what it will do . We've got a blueprint of it here, and if anybody wants to look at it , they ' re welcome to. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, if you want to ask him to come up, then . . . MR. COOPER: My name is Harold B . Cooper, and I'm Chairman -21- of the Board of Directors at Cooper Manufacturing at Monte Vista, 4 Colorado. MR. HEITMAN: Could you speak a little louder, so that people in the back could hear you, sir. MR. COOPER: You want me to repeat that? MR. HEITMAN: No, that ' s all right. MR. COOPER: We are a manufacturing company; we not only build scrubbers, we build potato equipment and other equipment , too, but scrubbers was our main project when we started this out . I worked for "inaudible" , which is an asphalt company for 17 years, and when this dust pollution became a problem, we started out with a wet dust collector, but we have come to find out that just having a wet dust collector wasn 't the answer, because most of r -these plants were portable and moved around, so I designed this scrubber with a portable tank, which is a settling tank to take the heavy particles out . What it -does, we have a horizontal tube; it is 20 feet long with spray nozzles in p y it . We have a fan that picks up the dirt off of the existing plant that they have. . . the fan they have on their Cyclone dust collector. What it does, it forces the particles of dust through the water, and all heavys go down into the tank below and it settles and it ' s a self-cleaning r tank. We recycle the water, so they can use the same water, so we have to add about 400-500 gallons per _lay to this tank to take care of compensation. Now for the odor, we talked with chemists, -22- and we can chlorinate the water to take care of the odor, which there should be no odor coming out the stack at all , because it 's just a steam, . is all it is . We take 99% of the particles of dust out, which has passed all state regulations in all plants we've put it on. We 've been doing some work on this. Mr. Land called me on this about 3 weeks ago, and I went down and got some samples of this stuff, and we' ve been checking it and trying to get the . . .make sure that we could do it. When we build something for 70 or 80 thousand dollars, and you guarantee it , you figure you 've got to make it work, so this is why it takes a little longer than usual. I 'm sure if the people have patience just a little bit , I think we can take care of the problem. MR. NIX: Do you separate the feathers? MR. COOPER: Feathers? MR. NIX: What happens to the feathers in this process? MR. COOPER: Is there feathers? There wasn ' t any feathers in any of the tests we took. . . there was no feathers in there. MR. STOLTE: I can answer that . MR. COOPER: Well , answer it . That ' s. . . MR. STOLTE: We grind all the feathers. They stay in the product. They go through a hammermill. -23- MR. COOPER: I have blueprints and pictures of these scrubbers, if anyone would be interested to look at them. L MR. HEITMAN: Okay, they 've been submitted to the staff , right, Mr. Solte? MR. STOLTE: The amendment was, but not -the blueprints, because we just got those today. MR. HEITMAN: I guess a necessary question is, have you or are you intending to file with the State -Health Department ifor a scrubber permit . . . MR. STOLTE: Yes, we are. MR. COOPER: Yes, we have to get a permit from the state to even build one, and then we have to get a permit to operate it, -so it . . . MR. HEITMAN: Okay, Mr. Paul, do you have a response. MR. PAUL: The only thing I would like. . .if you would like to see a scrubber, and not chicken manure, go out to the asp halt plant, and it 's the same thing, and it ' s. . . MR. HEITMAN: _I think this boy is pretty familiar, because we ' ve approved asphalt plants where scrubbers are, so. . . -24- MR. ELLIOTT: Mr. Paul , you don ' t think there will be a problem once they get everything organized. MR. PAUL: No , I don' t . MR. HEITMAN: Okay, are there any more questions of Mr. Cooper. Any other questions before we open it up to the audience. MRS. YOST: You don ' t have a sample of the tonic with you, do you? MR. STOLTE: No, I didn ' t bring any with me. MRS. YOST: If you talked about something, I would like to be able to see it. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, at this time we would give the people in the audience an opportunity to make a response or ask questions if they have any. We would like to ask you to come forward and use the podium, state your name and address, and then make your comments or questions. MR. ALTER: My name is Allen Alter, and I reside at 8465 Weld County Road 49, and the only thing I have here is support of what the state already contends and Weld County, that this is a nuisance as it stands now. I have one question to ask. Will the plant be operational during this interim period or. not? -25- MR. HEITMAN: I think that will be decided according to our staff 's recommendations. They recommended that it be opera- tional , provided it met the standards and regulations. . . MR. ALTER: Of which it does not . MR. HEITMAN: At least at the time that it was tested, and that we 've dismissed that from evidence, I guess I 'd ask Mr . Paul to respond to that whether the plant can meet . . . MR. PAUL: I 'd recommend not , now, until . . . and then I understand Friday, they are going to have a meeting at the State Health Department , and if it ' s denied then, no, they will be fined if they operate. . . if they don ' t give them a com- mission for this scrubber, or whatever they are asking for, then they' ll be fined. MR. HEITMAN: Well, the question he asked is, in regard to the operation of the facilities between now and the time they get the scrubber in , and you 're saying that will be resolved Friday. That ' s the response. MR. PAUL: I would ask for not operating it, because we are getting complaints from the people and can ' t blame them. The odor down there at times . . . I was there two times last week, and even on High 76, you would have to shut your windows of your car. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, Mr. Alter, do you have anything else. -26- MR. ALTER: The only thing is that I have prepared a letter. I will submit it to you. It only confirms what has k already been stated, and thank you for your time. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, if you would submit that letter, we will put it in our packet . Thank you. Okay, let the record show that Mr. Alter submitted a letter addressed to Commissioner Row; it will be submitted as part of the evidence. Is there anybody else that has anything? Yes, would you come up, please. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Yes, I 'm "inaudible" at 6687 Road 49, and we signed your petition, but we didn ' t understand it. We signed it in ignorance. They said there would be no odor. We have small children and we have to breathe that every day. When we sit down to eat, we can ' t finish a meal . It ' s terrible. We moved out here from the city to get away from pollution and smog, and we find it right across the street from us. MR. HEITMAN: Is that your location from the facility. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Yes, we 're right across the street. MR. HEITMAN; Okay, I guess the question I would have is that if they do bring it into compliance, then would you object or. . . NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Well , be breathe that every day into our -lungs, and our children. . . I don ' t see how that can possibly be healthy. _27_ MR. ELLIOTT: Maybe you ought to move back to town where it is healthy. fl NOT IDENTIFIABLE: We just don 't see how it can be healthy. MR. HEITMAN: So, you will be objectionable. . . I want the • record to show whether you will object to it if the operation is brought up to standards. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: If it ' s brought up to standards, then we know it ' s not unhealthy to breathe. MR. HEITMAN: You will not object . NOT IDENTIFIABLE: No, I would not object . MR. HEITMAN: Okay, fine. Thank you. MR. DeROSA: I want to ask a question. I 'm Albert DeRosa. You stated you lived next door. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: The plant is on the hill , and we 're right down the hill from the plant . MR. DeROSA: Oh, you said right down the hill . How far would that be, do you know? NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Less than three miles. . . two miles. 28- MR. DeROSA: Oh, you're talking in terms of miles. That 's all . • l MR. HEITMAN: Okay. Is there anybody else? MR. BOWLES : My name is Philip Bowles, and I 'm from Keenes- • -berg, and I don ' t come here to speak and tend to represent anybody • else in this room except myself . My home and where I live is 3* miles from the location of this plant, and I think that everybody in here and the people that applauded both for and against the thing. . . I think the whole thing boils down, not to opacity and what kind of particulates are coming out of this plant , because they' re not really that bad or that objectionable, but I think the odor is something that everybody here who has not had to put up with it would have to experience it to really know what it 's like. Now, if you have a dog catch a skunk right outside of your bedroom window, you all know that it ' ll wake you right up at night , and the odor from this plant to where I live has been strong enough on occasion in Keenesberg to wake you up, to where you would get up and shut a window. I think that everybody here would agree that, if the scrubber and the method for removing the odor works, the plant in itself is a great idea and a way to use a product that is a headache to everybody, especially. . . chicken waste. . . there ' s no good way to dispose of it . On the • fields, as they state, it ' s too high in ammonia, and the other "inaudible" to be a good fertilizer, it ' ll burn the ground, and everybody thinks that you have to get rid of it somehow. I think the whole thing boils down to the odor problem, because I feel , _29 at this point . . .and the small plant, I believe, is a bigger offender than the new plant, the bigger one, as far as the odor emission. But I think that , at this point , the way the odor comes out of this plant , it 's almost a confiscation of the rights of the property owners in the area, because I don ' t see how some of the people in the adjacent areas really could put up with it , to even sleep with the windows open or really to enjoy their homes and their property, as had as it gets at times. And I can only hope that if the scrubber works, it makes it a good workable property. But, at this point , I think that even the owners of the plant , themselves, have to admit that the odors are a problem to them, and I 'm sure they wish they knew how to control it easily and cheaply. This probably won ' t be done, but even they can ' t deny that the odor is the real objectionable problem to the whole plant and to everybody in the area. And, like I say, we ' re 34 miles from it , and there are people in this room who live farther than that, and the odors are objectionable to them, depending on the wind current , so I think that the whole thing should be addressed to the odor and whether they can meet the standards on that . Thank you. MR. HEITMAN: Before you leave, are there any questions for Mr. Bowles. Okay, we thank you for your response. Somebody else have anything? Yes. MR. BELL: My name is Jack Bell and I live at 25027 Road 18. I am a little over 2 miles straight north of the plant, and as far as the plant is concerned, I am not objecting to the -30- business. I think it is a good thing. Some day, I might even be using some of their product , but what I am objecting to, like Phil said, is the odor. Whenever there is a southerly wind, it ' s just unbearable; you can ' t even breathe. It ' s even so bad, it makes you sick. I 'm sure that some of my other neighbors that are here will state that same thing. I also have a letter from my father, who could not be here. He lives 21 straight east of where I live. He used to live where I live when the plant first started, and the odor was bad then, and it ' s been getting worse steadily. He says, "To Whom It May Concern: We do not oppose the Rolanda business, but because of the very offensive odor, we feel that they should solve the odor problem before any permit r is granted. " I , too, go along with this. I think they should stop operating until they do get the scrubber installed and do comply to the house standards. MR. HEITMAN: Oka if y, you ' d like to submit that letter, t we ' ll take it as evidence. Thanks, Jack. MR. ELLIOTT: Well , it seems to me like this whole deal is between the Health Department and the owners. If they can all get together and decide that this thing works all right , then I don ' t think we 've got any problem. Is that right? MR. PAUL: We ' ll just have to wait and see, Mr. Elliott , until they get the scrubber, to see if it will work. MR. ELLIOTT; That ' s what I mean, but the problem with -31- you folks, and the owners, then you ' ll decide if it works or not . Y MR. HEITMAN: I think, perhaps, we ought to state the Planning Commission ' s position, and I try to state that for the benefit of the people here, and we have the Commissioner, who is the director of the Planning Department , Mr. Dunbar, that we could call on for expertise, also, but the Planning Commission is a recommending body to the Board of County Commissioners, and we recommend, basically, land use policy in Weld County. We use all departments for referral agencies, and, in this case, we use the Health Department as a referral agency, to the con- duciveness of this type of an operation to the land use. That ' s why we bring other experts into the area of planning, so I think what Mr. Elliott 's trying to express is, in all probability, this is not a conflicting land use, providing that the Health Depart- ment and you people who live there could be satisfied, then, with the odors in the other areas that are dissolved. Are there any other questions or does anyone else have anything to say? Yes . MR. SHAKLEE: My name is George Shaklee. I live at 7627 Road 49. Before I make my comments, I have a letter I brought from Mr. & Mrs. Richard C. Harkis that I would like to enter into the evidence. "Weld County Planning Commission, Greeley, Colorado. Dear Sirs: We would appreciation your consideration in the matter of air pollution in our area because of a facility that dries chicken manure and sells it as a protein supplement for feeding animals. The objection we have is to the extremely offensive odor emitted from this burning process. We live -32- approximately five miles from this facility, and there are times when we have to shut doors and windows to be comfortable. This, in turn, makes it quite uncomfortable in hot weather. The facility is owned and operated by Mr. Lloyd Land of rural Hudson, Colorado. Your consideration in making the owner comply with pollution standards would be of great help to the community. Thank you for your consideration. Mr. & Mrs . Richard E. Harkis, 23431 Weld County Road 22, Hudson, Colorado. " For myself, I am opposed to this granting of the permit , and I am not naive enough to believe that they are going to take out 99. 9%, of the odor. The people out by the airport were told something like that about the lagoons, and they are still smelling it. You understand what the people of the delta are objecting to. I have a statement here I would like to read - parts of it . "The Rolanda Feed Company should not get brownie points for helping the egg factories con- trol their odors. Neither should this operation be considered sacrosanct,sacrosanct, because some 7 people have called it a recycling opera- tion. All recycling operations should be considered on their own merit, and if this is one, it does not have one redeeming feature. This plant brings in chicken manure form all over, and in addition, there is evidence to indicate that manure has been imported from California. There is absolutely no need for the product produced by Rolanda Feeds . The farmers of America are now producing, and will for some time continue to produce more grain and other feed concentrates than can be sold at profitable prices. The disposal of the egg factory can best be accomplished by spreading the refuge on abundant crop land. In the area of aesthetics, I rate this operation Zero. The flesh -33- of various of our game animals takes on a distinctively bad odor and taste at times from eating feeds with distinctive odors. I would not, knowingly, eat beef from cattle fed chicken manure. l' A man has only to sniff the air and gaze at the smoke and dust -emanating from this plant to realize the devastating amount of degradation being suffered from the environment . This operation -is an affront to energy conservation. It requires vast amounts of petroleum products to dehydrate the chicken manure and an equally large amount of natural gas to manufacture the Anhydrous Ammonia needed to replace nitrogen lost to the land from the misuse of the chicken manure. Land use and zoning are supposedly to protect the environment and the health and welfare of the citizens, as well as property values, and also to prevent those things that are aesthetically unpleasant from being forced upon the populace. At a time when social justice and human rights are the cry and watch-word of the land, why should more than a thousand people in the immediate vicinity and cumulatively the whole nation suffer through the despoilation of the environment to satisfy the avarice of these known and unknown entrepreneurs? That big Corporation Ralston-Purina Mills as one of the pur- chasers of the dried chicken manure from Rolanda Feeds also pro- fits from our misery. I wonder how many feed tags inform the purchaser that the feed contains chicken manure. Because I am not naive enough to believe the claims of 99. 9% removal of all particulates and odors, and also due to the timidity of both the planning staff and of the health department, I feel that if a SUP is granted, we will be forced to endure this obnoxious odor forever, unless relieved by injunctive action . I , therefore, -34- ask -that this abomination be stopped by an immediate cease and desist order by some commission or commissioners with authority to do so if they can find the courage to place right above all other considerations. " MR. HEITMAN: Okay, would you like to leave those in here, Mr. Shaklee, for our record. Thank you. Is there somebody else fr who would like to make comments or. . . Would you like to come up, please. MR. AARONS : My name is John Aarons, and I live at approxi- mately Kersey woad and 1-76, straight west of this plant. After they installed this scrubber -and all these formalities, and it doesn ' t work, what happens then? What about all the money they spent? That 's their problem? MR. ELLIOTT: That 's their money. They aren ' t worried about that. MR. AARONS: I mean, are they going to apply for another SUP to -try something else. MR. HEITMAN: Well , Mr. Aarons, even if they were granted a SIJP, they still have to comply with the Health Department regu- lations as the regulatory agency in this, and I think I 'd like to yield the flour to Mr. Paul and let him respond. I think he indi- cated here a little bit ago that there were some fines and penalties that could be assessed. Would you like to respond, Mr. Paul'? -35- MR. PAUL: Yes, if they are found in violation, they will be fined by the air pollution portion of the State Health Department. If they don ' t need the stamp, they will be given the cease and desist order, and if they continue operating, then they will be fined. "Inaudible" . MR. AARONS : I see. Is there some way of monitoring these smells without, what they say, a certified nose? Is there a machine that they could constantly run? MR. PAUL: I believe, in the opening statement, Mr. Stowe said that there hadn' t been any violations. Yes, we do have a little machine that we do go out with, but by the time we can get out there, the wind has changed, and I think that ' s the reason we have never found any violations out there. I mean, people that call, say about 9: 00 or 1D:O0 o ' clock at night, by the time Mr. Stowe can get out there, the wind can be changed. r And this is not only for this operation. "Inaudible" . . .we -men- tioned about the city. MR. AARONS : Isn ' t there a machine that you could just leave running all the time, at say four different directions from the place MR. PAUL: No. r MR. AARONS : l mean, -do you monitor it. -36- MR. PAUL: We have a little "inaudible" that I believe Mr. Stowe mentioned about. They go to not only the odor. . . they go to schools to test and to see about how they can. . . if they don' t pass, they don ' t get to use the machine. MR. AARONS : lie was talking about a petition. We live roughly 2 miles straight west, and we never did see a petition concerning this. MR. HEITMAN: The petition. you refer to, Mr. Aarens, is only a petition to property owners within 500 feet of the property, then they circulated a letter, which was in the form of a petition, that they submitted here, in addition to that . MR. AARONS : Well, we never did receive that. MR. HEITMAN: It is not mandatory, but the Planning Com- f mission requests that any application for PP any type of zoning, SUP, or anything, that they submit a list of names of property owners Within 500 feet 9f their property. MR. AARONS: Is there anything besides chicken manure and feathers that you recycle or dehydrate. Our neighbors received chicken manure _from the Gates Factory 3 or 4 years ago, and they were getting live chickens with it. MR. ITEITMAN: I can ' t respond to that . Okay. ]Jo you want to respond to that , Mr. Stolte? -37- MR. STOLTE: 1 ' d like Mr. Jim Erger to talk about this. _Possibly this happened 3 or 4 years ago, but these facilities have a different thing with their chickens. Now, Mr. Erger, would you explain what these chicken farms do with their live chickens and dead chickens. MR. ERGER: My name is Jim Erger. I have land in the facility. In fact, I own all the land that surrounds Mr. Aarons, who was just here. What ' s happened with the chicken facilities in the last few years at one time. . . I live down there towards Brighton, and we 've got the chicken plant there, too, and we had the Gates plant there originally, one of the first big ones. At that time, they were taking all the chicken waste and all the dead chickens. . . they would actually grind them up and trying to run them through that wet lagoon, and the end results were that it was a very bad deal . There was another plant in our area that was taking and throwing the chickens in a pile and throwing kero- sene and diesel fuel on there, and that left a terrible odor, and as time went on, they had all given up on using the wet process, which worked pretty good for cleaning the facilities; they could wash it all down, but they 've had to get back to the dry, so now there is a regular rendering plant that picks up daily all the dead birds. Dead birds do not come into the stry poultry waste, and a lot of these things that have been brought up were probably true 5 or 10 years ago. St ' s a completely different situation now. MR. IIEITMAN: Thank you. Yes. -38- MRS. CARSON: My name is Janet Carson, and I live at 1611 Road 47, and I 'm the neighbor that got the live chickens, and this happened four years ago, and there are still live chickens that fall out of the truck or dead chickens on the road. Where are still some there. I can go get them and bring them in if you want to see them. MR. -HEITMAN: I don' t care to see them, myself. Thank you. Any questions of Mrs. Carson? MR. STOLTE: Who' s hauling these chickens? r MRS . CARSON: I don ' t know. Is it your company? MR. STOLTE: S -don ' t receive any chickens, so. . . MRS. CARSON: Well , it 's the truck that ' picks up the chicken manure from Smith' s Chicken Factory, from the Hudson plant . MR. STOLTE : We don ' t get any live chickens. We just deal In chicken -manure. We get no chickens at all . MR. HEITMAN: Okay, yes. MR. BELL: I 'm James Bell , and I live at 7447 Weld r County -Road 49. I 'm talking about these chickens. I work at the State Highway -Department , and them trucks go by, l -can ' t remember how many days -a week, and there ' s live chickens falling -39- off every second. They fall off , and we pick them up and have to w remove them when they get run over. We see them all the time. Lloyd Land' s trucks. . . I don ' t know who they are hauling now. . . they used F to haul from that Gates plant there at Hudson, and they were always falling off on the road. We had to pick them up, so they can 't say they ain ' t getting them every day, because I see it , I work on the road. Thank you. MR. HEITMAN: Thank you. Okay, we want to give everybody an opportunity. . .we 'd like to close directly, but we' d like to give everybody an opportunity. . . NOT IDENTIFIABLE: I 'm "inaudible" . I live at Road 16 and 47, right back of Gates Cyclone, and I was following a truck into town just 3 weeks ago, and a chicken flew out of the truck from a bottle that the driver threw out of the window, and the chicken ran into the ditch. Don ' t tell me that they don't have chickens. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Did you follow the truck through. . . NOT IDENTIFIABLE: I was following the truck. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Did it go up to this plant? NOT IDENTIFIABLE : It was hauling to Rolanda, and the odor would gag a maggot . MR. HEITMAN: Yes, let 's get anybody else. Yes, would you -40- come up to the podium. MRS. BANER: My name is Pam Baner, and I live on 7421 Weld County Road 51, and they haven' t said anything about the flies for the farmers out there. They said they were bad in Keenesberg and stuff, but we live maybe a mile from them, and our flies are horrible. We used to raise pigs, and we never had flies this bad. MR. HEITMAN: You say you live a mile which direction? MRS. BANER: South. MR. HEITMAN: South. Okay. MRS. BANER: North, okay. MR. HEITMAN: Okay. No questions? Thanks, Pam. Anybody else; just come on up. MRS. GURTNER: I 'm Dorothy Gurtner, and I live on Kersey Road or Road 49, about l mile up, so we are about 2 miles north and west of the plant, and we do get a terrible odor; sometimes in the evening, we have to go and shut the windows so it doesn 't come in so bad. I 've lived there for 17 years, so I 'm not one that needs to move back to the city or anything. I 've lived there and enjoyed. . . -41- MR. HEITMAN: Okay, yes. Anybody else. Come on up. tr MRS . HAYES : My name is Joan Hayes, and I live diagonally as the crow flies, maybe about 3/4 of a mile from Rolanda Feeds. Sometimes if I wash my clothes late in the evening trying to get an early start in the morning to hang them out, if the odor is Loming, I may as well forget about it, because I just didn ' t realize what had happened one time. I hung my clothes when the wind was in the other direction, and when I went to get them, I had to re-wash the entire load. It just permeated the whole thing. r NOT IDENTIFIABLE: You ' re talking about evening. What time was it. MRS. HAYES: No, I had washed my clothes in the evening -so to get an early start in the morning, and they had. . . • NOT IDENTIFIABLE : _Some others had referred to evening odors, so I wondered about how late in the evening. • MRS . HAYES : It used to be the evening, now it ' s morning. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : When do they operate, that ' s what I want to know. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, we' ll ask the questions when the appli- rant comes back up, so save your question. Anybody else want to -42- say anything. Yes, come on up . We want to give everybody an opportunity, so they can' t . . .we don ' t want you to say that you didn ' t have an opportunity to say your. . . L MR. FRITZLER: I 'm Bob Fritzler, and I live about z mile west of the town of Keenesberg, approximately 2A-3 miles east of the dryer. I wrote an article in the Keenesberg paper a while back on the Rolanda Feed operation, and it seemed like the more complaints that I heard that other people were giving me, and so forth up to the Planning Board and the Health Department , and so forth, the only results that we saw was the increase size in the dryer that they put in. We had talked to some of the people that were associated with Rolanda and questioning the involvement that they had here as far as investment and without much in the way of results as to the flies and the odor that was being emitted. And since then, we see a larger dryer in operation, and in hearing -some of the people talk here about the manure that will no longer r be stock piled at the dryer, we have seen them move manure as late -as Sunday to a different position on the farm, maybe a quarter of -a mile away from the dryer. I don' t know what the specific boundaries of this dryer are and the property associated with it are, but we also understand that these people are farming the area right around the dryer, and they can very easily say that this manure is no longer stored on the facility, and yet it might be less than a quarter of a mile away. Another thing I question the number of 1 people that are on that petition. My name is not on it ; I was not asked to sign it . I 'm three miles away, and the petition says five miles away. Who are the people -43- that did sign it . Are they associates? Are they people who work for them? Relatives? And I like the last paragraph of that petition when it says Rolanda Feeds something to the effect that Rolanda Feeds has been a good business associate and will continue to be in the future, which is a little bit pushy when you go to a business, a small business, like in Hud- son or Keenesberg and say we farm. . . everyone knows that they farm 3, 000 acres. Of course, you're going to buy a lot of petroleum products, a lot of pesticides, a lot of fertilizers, and everything else. You walk into these businesses and say, "My equipment in the field is green. Do you sell green equip- ment? I 'm a business associate. I want to continue to be in the future. " It seems to me that the people' s hands are kind of tied on this thing, and it 's tough on them. It ' s turned people in the community against other people in the community because people find themselves taking sides. We want to continue to be neighbors to the operation. I 've been down and I 've talked to Bud Nuss about it . I want to be a neighbor. I have his relatives living right around me, and I 've been there five years. People talk about chicken manure is hard to get rid of . Well , there 's a person at this hearing today that had turkey manure taken from him, from his turkey farm. Now, whether you want to call it stolen or appropriated, or whatever it might be, it must have some sort of value that this manure was taken away from him. They speak of a scrubber, and every time I 've talked to the State Health Department, the EPA, _ ' hear this word "particulate" . Well , there are a lot of us that aren ' t involved with what the particulate matter is . -If I 'm 3 miles away, I don ' t -44- think there's any chicken feather dust or manure dust, or anything else, that 's falling in my yard. It ' s nothing but odor. It ' s in the air, and the gasses that this thing emits. . . I don ' t know what the temperature of the gas is coming off of that thing, but I worked for a hay dehydrating facility over -in Windsor, and I know what the blue flame is on a natural gas dehydrater, and you can see how high that gas goes into the air after it comes off of that dryer. I 'm sure that you can probably stand around it , like we are right here, and that gas is going up maybe 200-B00 feet or higher, and finally it cools, condenses, and settles back on the train around it . These are the people that are affected by it . -There' s people that live, I would say, a half to 3/4 of a mile away from this facility that they aren' t on this petition. Other people were petitioned with the idea that this was a permit that they were going to get a scrubber, get a facility to clean it up, and yet when this permit was turned in up here at the Planning Board, there ' s no request for a scrubber on the thing. These people were led to believe that it was going to be cleaned up, and in order to clean it up, they had to have a permit to put the scrubber in, and that 's why they signed. it . And there' s people here today, sitting in this hearing, wondering what they signed. You know. What kind of emphasis is going to be put on that thing? The Texaco man talks about no longer any flies. Predominantly, the wind in the last month or so has been out of the southeast, so I haven ' t been bothered by the odor as much as the people who are living north and west of the facility. And I know that it 's been plenty tough on them, because I 've been over there in the last few days talking to them, and I smelled the -45- odor, so where does the odor go? It 's where the wind is. Now you cam go out to my house this afternoon. The man talks about the heat will attract flies. Okay. The sun on the west side of -my house in the afternoon will heat up the bricks. I might have 20 or 39 flies on that west side of the house -today. Now • give -me 2 days when I 'm downwind of this thing, when the wind is r out of the west , and I ' ll show you thousands of flies hanging on the side of my house. Now I 'm sot saying that they 're generating or breeding flies in their manure piles over there. What I 'm saying is, when there 's an odor, the flies are -attracted to the odor, wherever they are. I can go up here in the mountains, and I can open up a picnic lunch, I 'm going to have _flies, but my picnic lunch sure doesn ' t smell like what I 'm sme-fling here. This is definitely a dead animal odor that we 're getting off this thing. Thank you. MR. -HEITMAN: Okay, thank you, Mr. Fr. itzler. -No questions? r MR. TILDON: Yes, I 'm Harold l'ildon, and I live a quarter of a mile west of Keenesberg, and I have a large dairy, and these people talk about flies and odors. Well , we have flies, anti we have some odor. I do know that we have smelled this chicken waste dryer and I think some of it is exaggerated, and sometimes it is bad. Slow, we get up early in the morning. As Phil mentioned here earlier, that it woke him up. Well , it sever has woke me up . Course, I 'm a pretty sound sleeper, but we start milking at 3 : 30 in the morning, which that gives me a pretty good time to smell this . Now, we have smelled it in the barn at that time in the -46- morning. Now since -they've started a new dryer, I think about the first of June, we have never gotten another odor down here. As far as the flies. . .well , you know what -a dairy's got. We spray co-ntinuously and we still got flies, so that ' s all . MR. HEITMAN: Thank you. Yes. • NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Could I ask a question . Could we ask what relation he is to the owner of this. . . MR. HEITMAN: Well , I think that is irrelevant . It has no bearing. Anybody has the right to testify. Anybody else t tike to say anything? Yes . MR. :PANKOW: My name is Jlerb Pankow and I live about 5 miles from this operation. I would just like to make a sugges- • tion more than anything. Instead of investing $70, 00O-$80,D00 in a scrubber, why don ' t you just use that money to move it out to where there is no problem, like the middle of the Qualcendall Ranch or somewhere? MR. HEITMAN: Well , the problem with anything, and I think this Planning Commission has been exposed to a number of ideas in waste dumps, -and so forth, everybody recognizes a need that nobody wants it next to them, and I guess that ' s the problem. • Where do we put something of this nature? Is there anybody else that has any. . .Yes. -47- MRS. BRIDGEWATER: My name is Mrs. Jim Bridgewater, We live at 26383 Weld County Road 16. My husband was not able to come r today, but he wrote, not even in letter form, but just a few thoughts that he would like for me to present to you. "I would like to think that Nolanda Feeds would be required to stop this pollution that is coming from this dehydration plant west of t Keenesberg. This has been in operation for 14 years that I know of , which is ample time to stop the stench. My name is on Rolands Feed' s petition for a permit , and I still believe that anyone should do asthey please or desire on their own property, as long as it does not affect their neighbors. When I signed this, Mr. Nuss informed me that they would stop the stench, so I think that their permit should be granted if the stench is stopped first . -'hank you for your consideration on this matter. Jim Bridgewater. " This has created a little bit of controversy in our family because I ieel. a little more strongly towards this than my husband. I 'm concerned that, ten perhaps years from down the road, that perhaps we may _discover some respiratory problems with our children ar ourselves. My husband's plant where he works is approximately 10 miles from this plant, and there has been a time when that far away he has noticed the smell . I took and figured the area of this circle and discovered that it would cover over 300 square miles, so someone within that 300 square miles, plus area, is being affected, depending on which way the wind is carrying this at the time. I 'D glad that Mr. Burfurst no longer has a problem with the flies, but living approximately 2 miles from the plant , we sincerely do on the days that the smell comes our direction, and a couple of days fallowing this , 1 -48- the flies are terrible . We're not even able to have a cook-out on our patio or sit out in the evening to enjoy the breezes. Since we have bought our place, we have wanted to entertain our F church people with a picnic in the lovely grove of trees we have there, and I haven ' t done it , because I 've been afraid that that would be the day the wind would come in our direction, and I would offend our guests, and even if the wind was not in our direction on that particular day, the flies would still be there. My husban-d thinks that if the stench is stopped first , that it should go ahead and be permitted to put their -plant in, but I really question whether it is entirely possible to eliminate 100%, because I think we people who live around there need to have that assurances. We have rights, . too. We hate to offend our neighbors, but we feel like that they should consider us, also. MR. HAYES : on -24545 -Highway 52 in Hudson. I live about a mile and a half south of this rendering plant, and my property extends within a half a mile of the property concerned. It is my understanding, with the Planning Board, that you have laws and regulations governing just such an operation. In other words, you have, as I understand it, possibly two ways you can go. Now, you can either get a re-zone to put an operation in like this, ar you could request from the County Commissioner a special permit . Now, what I would like to know, at this time, would be just what are the requirements of a special permit, and I 'm sure that many of the people here would also. -49- MR. HEITMAN: Okay, I 'd ask Mr. Fortner, director of Planning for Weld County, if he would. . . MR. FORTNER: Okay, if you can hold on for a minute here. Basically, taking from my regulations what is required under a SUP process, states under paragraph 3. 3E, sub-item 2, that the Planning Commission and the Board of County Commissioners shall consider the following in making a determination in approving or denying a SUP. Compatibility with the surrounding area, harmony with the character of the neighborhood, and existing agricultural uses, the need for the proposed use, its effect upon the immediate area, its effect on future development of the area, and the health, r safety, and welfare of the inhabitants of the area and the county. Basically, these are the general guidelines which are followed in approving or recommending disapproval on a SUP appli- cation. f r MR. HAYES: Are there any other requirements as far as storage facilities of the by-products, and so forth. MR. FORTNER: No, that is all taken into consideration under the general standards which are set forth in the regulations. They are considered as a part of the SUP application. MR. HAYES : Also in the zone that it ' s in. r MR. FORTNER: Right . -50- MR. HAYES : Okay, now this property is zoned, how. . . r MR. FORTNER: This is on agricultural . MR. HAYES: Agricultural, so is this correct in what I 'm saying, there would be two ways a person would have to go to have this plant in operation. MR. FORTNER: Well , it is zoned agricultural , and this would require a SUP in the agricultural zone, so even though the property is zoned agriculturally, it requires a second permit before operation is allowed. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: I see. Well, being one of the nearest resi- dents to the operation, I find this a very definite nuisance, and I have not been contacted by anyone in this organization when it has been put into operation . We've suffered from this thing, now, not just recently, for a year and a half to two years, from this stench that has been coming from this plant . Now, I sit here and listen to a lot of what I would consider untruths that have been put forth here by individuals stating things that really have not happened. We have lived close to this, we have listened to, we have even talked to the individuals, they have guaranteed us that there is nothing they could do to clean the stench up. In fact, they wished there were. In other words, we've lived in this community, and it has been torn apart by this type of opera- tion. We 've tried to work with the people without having to in- volve the Board, if you will, here. But it seems that we have -51- regulations written, we have laws that are written that already r govern what has taken place here. In other words, this operation has come into existence with total disregard for the laws and regulations that are presently in effect as far as SUP' s. I was not contacted, being one of the closer residents, as how I might be affected by this. MR. HEITMAN: Is your property within 500 feet of theirs. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : No, it ' s not. MR. HEITMAN: That ' s probably why. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : And what I would like to point out here. . . it was mentioned that this petition was signed by land owners within 5 miles of the facility. This is wholly inaccurate, in that many of these people that signed this petition were not land owners, were not tax payers in the area. Some of these people signed this under false pretences and under duress. Now, this has come into being here. It has torn the community apart, and I feel quite concerned for my family' s health and the annoy- ance and what it has done to the community. There 's been quite a bit of work done on this. There has been meetings with the local officials, the planning commissions . in the local towns. This company has promised certain things that they were going to do. When you add all of these promises up , they don ' t seem to jive quite with what they 're saying here today. I believe there were statements that their dryer or their scrubber operation was -52- being put forth by somebody in Nebraska or Oklahoma, and that they would have the thing in. . .now it ' s coming out of somewhere else in Colorado here. All these facts don' t seem to add up when someone who ' s been witnessing the operation has seen just what has happened. As far as the fly problem is concerned, I can verify this very strongly in that we have had a fly problem, not recently, but as much as a year ago, I had to have my yard airily sprayed to remove the flies. And this did absolutely no good. They were as bad within a few days, as they were before 1 had the place sprayed. This is something we've been living 4 with for a year and a half . We've come now to the commissioners here, the Planning Board, to find some relief for what we consider a very urgent problem. We would like to ask you, due to the urgency of this and the objections that we have in the community, that you would find it within your power to expedite your pro- ceedings on this, your recommendations to the commissioners that we could get immediate relief from this situation. MR. HEITMAN: If anybody else would care to make any com- ments. . . NOT IDENTIFIABLE I have a letter from someone who couldn' t be here, and it ' s sealed, so I will give it over to you. MR. HEITMAN: This letter is addressed to Weld County Y Planning Commission. "Gentlemen: This is in opposition to the Rolanda Feed Plant located east of Hudson, Colorado, which is presently seeking a Special Land Use Permit . We live 6 miles -53- from this plant and are greatly opposed to it because of the dead animal odor it produces. This odor is particularly notice- �t[ able in the morning, on still afternoons, and when it rains. We live on a poultry farm and never have had this type of odor. We enjoy the fresh country air and strongly suggest the plant be moved to a remote place or have the plant eliminate this odor completely. Sincerely, Mr . . & Mrs. Terry L. Mehring, 26904 Weld County Road 20, Keenesberg, Colorado. " Is there anybody else that would care to. . . Okay, I ' d ask Mr. Fortner if he 'd care to make his comments now. MR. FORTNER: Okay, I 've got one thing that I feel that r does need to be clarified, since the odor problem seems to be the major problem that we' re dealing with in conjunction with this operation . I would like to ask some questions of either Mr. Paul or Mr. Stowe, and in doing so, I refer to what, I be- lieve, is the current copy of the Colorado Department of Health Emission Control Regulations for particulate smokes and sulphur oxides from the state of Colorado. Specifically, I ' d refer to Regulation #2, which deals with odor emission regulations. To be more specific, paragraph A-2 and 3A & B. Basically, the regu- lation states that it is a violation if odors are detected after the odorous air has been diluted with 15 or more volumes of odor- free air . Then sub-section 3A indicates that when the source is a manufacturing process or agricultural operation, no violation of sub-sections 1 and 2 shall be cited by the division, provided that the best practical t:^eatment , maintenance, and control cur- rently availabl3 shall be utilized in order to maintain the lowest -54- possible emissions of odorous gasses. That ' s the first portion of that sub-section. Subsection B indicates for all areas it is a violation when odors are detected after the odorous air has been diluted with 127 or more volume:3 of odor-free air, in which case provisions of paragraph 3A that the basic exemption shall not be applicable. I think the question that I would like to ask is, could you explain in layman 's terms the technology we ' re dealing with here, in terms of dilution of odor with odor-free air, what we are likely to expect if the regulations are met under existing standards, or are we going to have any odor or are we not going to have any odor emitted from this. MR. PAUL: Mr. Chairman, I 'd like to turn that over to Mr. Stowe, because we do have, as I mentioned, a little white "inaudible" and even if they meet the standards, they are still going to get odors. If they don't have odors over there, and r still they meet the state standards. The portions of it , I believe I ' ll let Ron. . . MR. STOWE: With the present place "inaudible" Cyclone, I think there, Mr. Fortner, that would be considered by the State Health Department as best practical treatment for odor. I think a scrubber would be and, therefore, if they had a scrubber on the system, they would have to exceed 15 to 1 pollutions to be in violation. MR. FORTNER: Okay, to put that in plain English, when they meet the standard, do we have an odor or don' t we have an -55-- odor? MR. STOWE: It ' s possible to have an odor that is notice- able to a person' s nose; however, it doesn' t necessarily have to be in violation. Is that what you' re asking? You can notice an odor, yes, but it is not necessarily in violation. MR. FORTNER: That ' s what I wanted to know. MR. ELLIOTT: Mr. Chairman, about the plant in Windsor that was brought up here a while ago, the dehydration plant, does that meet your requirements? r MR. PAUL: You 're talking about Windsor. MR. ELLIOTT: Yes. p MR. STOWE : The Windsor plant with respect to odor. . . I believe it does . See, the thing about it . . .alphapha plants, instead of 20% opacity, which Rolanda would be. . .this is opacity. They get 40% opacity. They had a exemption made last year. By 1985, they have to be 20% opacity, but because they are giving a greater leeway "inaudible" opacity, they haven' t installed things like scrubbers at their facilities up here . In some places in Colorado, they have. MR. ELLIOTT: But that meets your standards. . . it ' s still got quite a bit of odor, is what I 'm getting at . IT _ - 6- MR. PAUL: Mr. Chairman, I would repeat again, even a if they meet the state standards on these 1 to 21-25, you're still going to have odors, and these people are going to smell these. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, does anyone else want to say anything. Last time, okay. MR. HAYES : I ' ve already stated my name. MR. HEITMAN: Well , state it again. r MR. HAYES: Russell Hayes, 24545 Highway 52. If this plant has been in compliance, I 'm sure none of us would have objected to this operation. I would like to think that we could live in a community and get along together, those of us that are in it . Most of us are farmers around the area, We' ve come in now with a position where many of my friends in the area have not been able to attend this meeting because of their work load; how- fr ever, we see a turnout like this representing a small community that we are, and I feel that , to me, it means quite a bit to see this many concerned people here objecting to something that has been rather severe. My request would be from the Board here, is there any time that you go out into the field to witness an operation that may be in effect or have particular problems . r MR. HEITMAN: Yes, sir . Several of us were there yester- day _ and inspected this. -57- MR. HAYES : I see, and do you go in unannounced to any • -of these operations, or is it by invitation? t MR. HEITMAN: No, we requested that we could come and view it , and we were there last evening, yes, sir. MR. HAYES: I see. Well, there again, these are some of the things we would like to point out. I think that we've touched on just lightly that some reference was made to. . .that this manure was not stock piled. Well , may we say to the con- trary that many of us that live in the community will tell you that it has been stock piled. In fact, the stock pile was r moved as late as Sunday from around the operation, their dryer operation, out into the field. Now, this now qualifies for land operation where the manure is put on the land. May I say that I have, being a farmer, used turkey manure to put on the r farm, and I find it quite desirable, and chicken manure. . . it works very well in putting into the thing. Another thing that I am concerned with here is that we, as farmers, at this time, are looking at prices that are extremely low. We are looking at $1 . 50 wheat . Now, when I go out to buy a bag of dog food, I 'm paying roughly $22 for a 100 pound bag of dog food, and this supplement , supposedly, was to manufacture a cheaper feed. Well , I think then that some of these costs would be past the law. I can ' t understand the correlation when I buy a package, I 'm paying $22 for the thing, and as farmers, when I raise wheat and corn, and what have you, and I get $1 .50 for the product. It looks now as though, possibly, I 'm in direct competition with -58- this company that was, supposedly, doing us a favor, finding us cheaper feeds for animals. Thank you. MR. HEITMAN: Thank you. Okay, was there anyone else that wanted to say anything . If not, then. . .yes, Mrs. Bridgewater . MRS. BRIDGEWATER: If this were in your yard, I have no doubt k that your recommendations with the County Commissioner would be that this should be-denied. MR. HEITMAN: Okay. Mrs. Exhaler. 7 MRS. EXHALER: Yes, we have a Governor that really likes to walk and have clean air, and I think the Governor should come nut EL take a smell. MR. HEITMAN: Okay, if there are no other comments, I ' d give the applicant any rebuttal that he would have, and then we would take this matter into consideration. MR. STOLTE: Well, I might touch on the chickens a little bit . The first thing I 'm going to do when I get back is call Mr. Smith and tell him that he' s losing a lot of chickens. The manure that goes from the Hudson facility is, again, Lloyd Land' s manure. I-t goes to his farms. I don' t receive any chickens at Rolanda. Possibly, they' re jumping out of the truck before they get there. I 'm not aware of them. I 'm sorry about the price of dog food. We haven ' t helped that , yet . I 'm asking for this SUP to manufacture _59_ an agricultural product that a couple of fellows did a lot of test and research on. We will -comply with all state laws. We have no qualm with that at -all . We have no qualm with the state. We have bath of our permits. We've never operated without a permit , and as soon as this company grew, and we incorporated an-d starterl the other alehydrater, we immediately applied for this SUP. Before that, we didn' t need it . We were doing agricultural , any manure that we did dehydrate, we fed to our own cattle for test and xesearch, and at that time, we didn' t need it . I really don ' t see a lot of -difference between hauling this manure that everybody says is so good for their fields, and it is, to a slight degree, putting it on the fields, growing corn, and then selling the corn as feed, or taking this chicken manure and making feed out of it right there. I think we' re all after the same thing. I think we're here to produce more feed for America and any way we can _do this, I think we need to do it . This definitely belongs in an agricultural zone. All `r the facilities I 've visited are in agricultural zones. It 's the only place for it . It ' s an agricultural product. I don ' t have anything else to say. MR. HEITMAN: Dkay, I ' d like to ask for a show of hands. I think it would be beneficial for the Planning Commission. For those of you who were here and raised objections to this, I ask only you to raise your hands. How many would be in favor of this if it met the state health standards and requirements as far as the land use is concerned. How many would favor the continuation of this operation if it met the standards? Would you raise your 111 -60- hands. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: 1 have a question. If it meets the state L standarfis, are we still going to have the smell? What ' s what I ' d like to know. MR. HEITMAN: To a degree. MR. PAUL: Yes , you will . NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Well, if ,we have the smell , what 's the difference. MR. -HEITMAN: Okay, would you raise your hands. MR. PAUL: It wouldn ' t be as strong as it is now, that 's for sure. MR. STOLTE: _If we put a scrubber on it . . . MR. TAUL: You' ll still have odor. Can you improve that. Your scrubber is going to be operating 24 hours a day. You know you 're going to have to clean the scrubber , you're going to have to repair it . MR. HEITMAN: Okay, I think the question is fair. I think the Planning Commission would like to know for our decision making process here, how many would favor the operation if it met the -61- standards. Would you raise your hands. How many would be objec- tionable to it, even if it met the standards. Okay, thank you. i I think that ' s everything. I ' d ask now if the staff would re-state what their position is, and what they would expect from direction of the Planning Commission. MR. NIX: Do you want me to read the recommendations'? MR. HEITMAN: Do you just want to stay with the recommenda- tion. Okay, just for clarification. Then I ' d ask the Planning Commission if they are satisfied with everything heard here, what they would like for a decision or recommendation. MR. NIX: Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that there' s been enough evidence given here today that , perhaps, this opera- ; tion should have a cease and desist order if, in fact , it -hasn ' t already, until such a time as they can clean their operation up, so it isn' t offensive. I am concerned with an operation going on in our agricultural area. It would seem to me that , if these people have a profitable operation, that they could and should locate in an area where it would not be offensive to their neighbors. I am just making this point. I don ' t know if it 's an order or not . With these remarks, Mr. Chairman, if it ' s an order , I would move that we follow the recommendations of the staff and that this operation be ordered to cease and desist until such a time as they're able to reform in such a way that it 's not offensive to the people involved. -62- MR. HEITMAN: The staff ' s recommendations, Mr . Nix, is that it be tabled and the. . .why don' t you read the recommendation, Ken, so that we' ll understand it , before we go further, and then we 'll entertain the motion. MR. McWILLIAMS : Okay, the Weld County Health Department has indicated that the applicant has filed for an air pollution emis- €ion permit for the economy single fast dryer. On June 14, 1977, the Weld County Health Department monitored the facility for particulate emissions and found the facility exceeded the 20% opacity level permitted under state health regulations. -'here fore, it is the recommendation of the Planning Commission staff, that this application for a SUP be tabled until the applicant has secured approval from the Weld County Health Department and the Air Quality Control Commission of the State Health Department , as issued the air pollution emission permit for the economy single fast dryer. The Planning Commission staff recommends that the applicant be permitted to operate either of the two dryers while the SUP application is pending, but only under the condition that when the dryer or dryers are operating , they must comply with Weld County and state health standards and regulations. -The Planning Commission staff further recommends that the Weld County Health Department continue their monitoring program for the facility to assure compliance with Weld County and state health standards and regulations. MR. HEITMAN: -Okay, Mr. Nix, the reason I had that read was you mentioned a cease and desist , and I wondered if the staff -63- , recommended that it be allowed to operate if they met the health standards and regulations. You want your motion to be as it stands. Okay, you heard the motion. Is there a second. K MR. HIATT: I second it . MR. HEITMAN: Okay, the motion was made by Nix, seconded by Hiatt , that we follow the staff ' s recommendation that this be tabled, and they be allowed to operate only if they meet the standards and regulations, and I guess I have a question. Tabled until when? What are we talking about . MR. McWILLIAMS : This is until they get their permit from the Air Quality Control Commission of the State Health Department . MR. HEITMAN: Okay, just so it ' s clear in everybody's mind what we' re tabling . MR. FORTNER: We should probably ask Mr. Paul exactly what kind of time prime work we 're talking about . I don' t think it was the intent of the staff that it should drag out for 6 months or 12 months or whatever. We were considering, say a 180 day period, to get things finalized with the State Health Department and Air Quality Control Commission at the local health department . If we' re looking at periods beyond this , the Commission might want to consider what kind of time prime work they feel is reasonable. MR. HEITMAN: Also, consider the applicant has entered into VI -64- his application the scrubber. We ' ll file for an application with the state. His time-table, he said, was 4-5 weeks. MR. NIX : It ' s quite obvious that this is a matter of settlement between the health department and the people in opera- ting. I don ' t see why we're confronted with the decision here, as a Planning Commission group. MR. FORTNER: Okay, one of the things that I ' d like to bring out is that the odor problems seems to be the biggest problem associated with the operation. The Health Department is the one that regulates odor emission; however, when considering the SUP, itself, the Planning Commission, under our standards, considers the compatibility with the surrounding area and existing uses. If the odor is incompatible with those existing uses around that area, then it should be a part of the basic land use decision, and this is why we are recommending as we are at this point in time. MR. ELLIOTT: Can I ask a question? Are you gentlemen prepared, maybe, to spend $100, 0O0 and then have this thing turned down if you can' t make it work. That ' s the sad part of it . I think you should be sure that it ' s going to work. MR. STOLTE : Well , the latest works with this scrubber, we have to turn these blueprints into the state engineers, and they put their pencils to it to figure out if it will work before "inaudible" or disapprove this scrubber. I wouldn ' t even consider -65- putting the scrubber in if it didn ' t meet the state ' s approval . I 've gone through this, myself, before on an asphalt plant , and fr I had to deal with the Colorado Air Quality people, and, very definitely, they look at the blueprint , they look at the scrubber you ' re going to put on, the amount of water that ' s going to be going through it , the cfm that your staff is putting out, and calculate if it will handle the job. When they approve it , that ' s when we ' ll put it in, and that ' ll be just as quick as we can push it through. We want to eliminate the odor, we want to eliminate any particulates going into the air. We do need the time to do it . We do need to keep operating until we can get this met with the Air Quality, but we have no qualm with them; we have our permit , they ' ve given us 180 days to do our stack test , we have a meeting with them Friday, and we will comply with their law. This is what we have to do. MR. HEITMAN: Mr. Paul . MR. PAUL: Mr. Chairman, we were talking about the stack odor . May I ask what are they going to do, looking outside. . .are they going to have all the. . . I understand they are going to be outside. . . there are piles of manure outside, and if they are moved from the payload or the loader into their machine, if the wind blows, that ' s going to blow the manure. . . there s going to be odor. That ' s the reason I always say that they always have odor out there, unless they have all this operation inside. MR. HEITMAN: That wouldn ' t be any different than a farmer Ill -6B- loading from a stock pile, though. b MR. PAUL: That ' s right . MR. HEITMAN: I think their plans differ, too . Maybe you haven' t had -an opportunity to see their new plants, Mr . Paul . • They have some of them housed in facilities and their stock piles in an enclosure, so I think that would -eliminate some of that . We're not taking any more evidence, so I ' ll ask if you could be refrained from saying more. 'This is just a matter now between the Commission. Is there any other questions on the motion? f MR. ELLIOTT: the only thing that I am concerned about is we don ' t want these people to feel like, that we say you can go ahead and do this. I think that it must be between them and the Health Department . If the Health Department approves it , then are we going to approve it , is this the idea. r MR. HEITMAN: I think it ' s pretty specific here; it says here that only under the condition that when the dryer or dryers -are operating, they must comply with the Weld County and State Health standards and regulations. 'That ' s the way the motion. . . MR. PAUL: 'That ' s between them and the company then . If everything works, then we approve. Otherwise, we got . . . MR. HEITMAN: I 'd like to make that very clear to everybody here, too, that that ' s the way the motion reads. Whatever happens 11IIII -67- in the interim is another story and totally up to our responsi- bilities, but that ' s the way our motion will read, and that ' s the way we will read to the County Commissioners at this point , until the other standards are met and it ' s brought back to our body, then we will act in a different manner. MRS. YOST: There was another paragraph there. . . that last paragraph. 1 wish you would read it . MR. HEITMAN: The Planning Commission staff further recom- mends that the Weld County Health Department continue the monitoring program for the facility to ensure compliance with the Weld County and state health standards and regulations. So, Mr. Nix moved. . . you can clarify the motion, Mr. Nix, that we recommend tabling, with the staff ' s recommendations. .and agree with the second thing. Okay, is there any other discussion. If not, then, I would ask if you're ready for the question. Okay, would you poll the Com- mission, Shirley? MRS. PHILLIPS: Mrs. White? MRS. WHITE : Yes . MRS. PHILLIPS : Mrs. Kountz? MRS. KOUNTZ Yes. . MRS. PHILLIPS: Mrs. Yost? -68- MRS . YOST: Yes, MRS. PHILLIPS: Mr. Ashley? MR. ASHLEY: Yes . MRS. PHILLIPS: Mr . Heitman? MR. HEITMAN: Yes , MRS. PHILLIPS: Mr. Nix? MR. NIX: Yes . MRS . PHILLIPS: Mr. Elliott? • MR. ELLIOTT: Yes. MRS. -PHILLIPS : Mr. Hiatt? MR. HIATT: Yes . MR. HEITMAN: I ' d like to, for the benefit of everybody here, state that the county records are all public record, and I think you would be interested to know that we have another application of the exact same nature that has been filed before, so this seems to be very popular. A way to dispose of chicken manure, today, so, if there' s nothing else, we thank you all I _ -69- for your attendance. Yes, sir? NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Can I ask a question? MR. IIEITMAN: Yes , sir. i NOT IDENTIFIABLE : How much time are we talking about here, the length of time. MR. PAUL: Can I answer that? It all depends on the state pollution board first . We have to meet with them and get r an approval by them before we can even. . . all our plans have to � be approved. . . if they approve, they give us the permit to build it . That ' s very chancey. I can ' t tell you how long that will take. It might take two weeks or three weeks. Then, when we get the order, the signed order, we ' ll start building it then. It depends a lot on the materials. The materials are getting a little hard to get . It don ' t seem like they should be. Many of them are quite particular, but this is what ' s happening here . "Inaudible" and drag chain and stuff we use to manufacture "in- audible" are hard to come by. After we get the signed order from the state highway department , then it ' s okay to build. Then we can start ordering the stuff . It' s going to take us at least 4-5 weeks to build it . We have to go through this on all the scrubbers we build. It ' s a process that goes through the pollu- tion board. . . it has to be approved by them before we can do any- thing. -70- MR. HEITMAN: Okay, I ' ll explain what I understand is the method. The tabling motion, it ' s an indefinite tabling motion as far as appearing before this board again, but our motion read that they will comply with the state and county health standards and regulations. Now, they have a meeting Friday, as was testi- fied here., with both health bodies, and whatever they determine from that meeting, whether they can continue to operate, is the way I understand it . Now, is that correct, Mr. Paul? So, what- ever the outcome of their meeting Friday, we disregarded the evidence, by request of the Health Department , that they were not in compliance, because there' s some question about it . So we disregarded it . Now, they're having a meeting Friday, and whatever the outcome of that meeting is, it ' s my understanding whether they will continue to operate. Then, if the Health Department does not allow them to continue to operate and they do, then they will be in violation of the Health Department , not the county, and whatever penalties and things develop then, it will be the Health Department ' s regulatory agency , not the county. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : In other words, at the meeting Friday, and if they' re not in compliance, then they would be issued a cease and desist , or something along that line? MR. HEITMAN: Well , Mr. Paul, would you like to state the position of that for the benefit of the people here. MR. PAUL: Yes , I will turn that over to Ron, because he ' s -71- been getting "inaudible" . i MR. STOWE: Well, like I said before, it ' s what they call a pre-denial conference. They have the opportunity to appear. This is for the permit for the big dryer they have. If it goes that it is denied, then they cannot "inaudible" the denial there, which is official notice to the company. MR. HEITMAN: But , what if the outcome is reversed and they do comply, then. . .what are the alternatives? MR. STOWE: The alternatives. . .they can request to appear before aVarianceBoard,Board, which the Air Pollution Control Commission' s Variance Board can request a variance that they be allowed to operate through some insinuating circumstances . That ' s the one thing. The other thing is that if the siting that we gave out last Tuesday was found to be not thrown out some time back, then I ' ll show that they would request that we go back and do some more siting. Now at that time they would not be in violation, then we would go back again . That ' s what would happen. MR. HEITMAN: That ' s what I wanted you to say, so that these people understand the alternatives that are allowed here. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Then it ' s my understanding that if they would be in violation come Friday, and they could not meet the standards, then would it immediately be called back on the Planning Board with the recommendation by the Health Department? -72- MR. HEITMAN: No, it ' s called back on the Health Department, not the Planning. We table it until they have the opportunity to prove that they can meet the standards and that the application is in order, then we will take it up at that time again, but it will be out of the Planning Department ' s area until they meet the health regulations . Is that right , Gary? MR. FOX: There is the possibility that they can get variance, if the Pollution Board or Variance Board can see where it 's a hardship on them. I think this has happened before. As long as they have something in progress to try to help them. I mean , I just want that understood, because we work with them, we try to. . .they 're not that mean. MR. HEITMAN: I think Ron pointed that out pretty well . Okay, we thank you all for your attendance, and we hope you were satisfied with the opportunity you had to speak. MEETING OF JANUARY 17, 1978 MR. CARLSON: Our next item on our agenda today is SUP 335: 77 : 9, Rolanda Feeds, Inc. , chicken manure dehydration facility, part of the east half of the northeast corner section 31, township 2, range 64 west . Location is 3 miles east and lA miles north of Hudson. We ' ll ask you for your presentation, your witnesses. . .we ' ll just throw the whole ball of wax, kind of keep it brief and to the point , please. MR. ZARLENGO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Planning Commission, and the County Attorney. My name is Anthony B. Zarlengo. I appear as attorney in record for Roland Feeds, Inc. , and this matter comes before this honorable commission on the application for the SUP for my client . I just was handed a copy of your official comments on this case, but I feel that a few remarks might be appropriate at this time. As this Com- • mission knows, the Rolanda Feeds is in the business of dehydrating chicken waste, and this dehydrating product is used as an ingre- dient for cattle feed, it ' s high in protein. It ' s an ecological and sanitary means of disposing of cattle waste. The plant employs 21 people, which provides a living for 21 families in the area. The plant began operation in about January of 1977, and there was some concern in the neighborhood because of odor from the plant . My client set about doing everything possible to correct this odor, and at great expense, they installed a scrubber , as you people suggested on June 24, when this matter came up before. They installed a scrubber and other devices, which have eliminated odor, and which have curtailed the particulates that emit from the smoke and from the stack, and the opacity of the plume of -2- smoke to the point that the plant now operates far below the minimum state standards. I believe you gentlemen are aware that on November 30, 1977, the Colorado Health Department issued a final permit . There are some conditions on the permit , but the final permit was i-ssued, and that permit was issued on the basis of the results of the final test that was taken on Nov- ember 21 , 1977. The results of the tests were as follows : the visual opacity test , which allows 20% opacity or obscurity divi- sion over a certain period of time; the allowable amount is 20%. Dn November 21 , 1977, the opacity was 0%. The emissions test . . . the allowable amount is 23 pounds per hour . On that date, the emissions from the stack were 8 pounds per hour, which was approximately 1/3 of the minimum allowable amount . You gentle- men expressed concern about copper emissions, and so copper emissions tests were run out there, and on November 21 , copper • could not even be detected by the state officials who were con- ducting the test . The odor test. . . there was no standard set , as I understand it , because in an agricultural zone, there is really no limit as long as reasonable means are taken to prevent odor. But the reading was very low on the centometer test. . . scale . . .odor was hardly detectable at that time. For your interest, I have with me 7 copies of the emission permit that was issued by the state, and copies of the particulate test and the opacity test , so if you ' ll be so good as to pass these around. I apologize for not having one for council , but I didn' t realize that council would be here. We do have a copy of the particulate test, but it ' s a very involved test . I believe the cost of that test was something around $3500. We' ll be glad to -3- supply one copy, because we don ' t have 7 copies. Would you gentlemen like to have a copy of this for your file. This is the particulate test . You would like that . Okay, I ' ll present it to council . We have, this afternoon, in support of our appli- cation for the permit , 3 gentlemen who own land or work in the close proximity to the Rolanda plant , and who would testify, as a matter of offer of proof, that they notice nothing at all from the plant by way of odor or smoke, or any other thing that would be offensive to them. Also, Mr. Fox of the State Health Depart- ment was here, but he had to leave. I believe Mr. Fox is no longer here. We asked him to stay, but he was called away. He officiated at the state test and was very satisfied with the operation of the plant at the time those tests were run. The three gentlemen we have are Richard Steiber, James Ergen, and Jack Stevenson. As I stated, by an offer of proof, these gentle= men will testify that they are either in business or reside within a close proximity to the plant , 3 to 4 miles, one of them is 1z miles from the plant , and that they detect nothing whatsoever from the plant . If -any of you have gone on the premises, you will find that the plant is a very first-class operation, it ' s very tidy and neat , and is very well set up and organized. 7 think it is really a credit to the area, because it does employ people and, as I stated earlier, it provides a sanitary means of disposing of chicken waste in the area, and I feel that it ' s an ecological thing, it isn' t polluting the air, it ' s in compliance with state standards, and I feel that Rolanda Feeds, Inc. is de- serving and entitled to a SUP. Would you like for me to call the people who we have brought here to speak in favor of the _4_ operation. I made an offer of proof, but if you want them, I ' ll call them. All right , first I ' ll call Richard Steiber. I 'm not familiar with your procedure. Do I question my witness or does he simply state what he has to say? MRS. NORTON: He can simply make a statement, and we would "inaudible". MR. ZARLENGO: All right . If you please state your name and address, for the record, and you might speak into the mike, because I think that everything is being recorded today, and then make your statement . MR. STEIBER: My name is Richard Steiber . I have the John Deere Agency at Keenesberg, Colorado, approximately 3 miles from the plant . Late last winter, we could smell it at the store, the place of business. Now we don 't smell it at all . MR. ZARLENGO: Are there any questions of this witness before I call the next witness . I will call James Ergen. MR. ERGER: Mr. Erger. MR. ZARLENGO: Mr. Erger. State your name and address for the record, and then make a statement . MR. ERGER: My name is James Erger. My address is Route 3 , Box 165B, Brighton. I own 255 acres west of the plant about a -5- mile, and since they put the scrubber in, I haven ' t detected any offensive odor. MR. ZARLENGO: Now, Mr. Erger, before you leave, how about detecting any smoke from the stack. Do you notice. . . MR. ERGER: 1 can see what appears to be steam coming from it , but it soon dissipates within 100 feet or so and dis- appears. MR. ZARLENGO: What color, is the steam? MR. ERGER: White. MR. ZARLENGO: White. Jack Stevenson. MR. STEVENSON: My name is Jack Stevenson, and I live 4 miles south of the plant, and since the scrubber was installed, we 've had no offensive odor. MR. CARLSON: None at all? MR. STEVENSON: No. MR. ZARLENGO: Well , let ' s go to Les Stolte, who is president of Rolanda Feeds. He has a few remarks he 'd like to address to you gentlemen and ladies. Mr. Les Stolte. -6- MR. STOLTE: Well, first of all , are there any questions on that little package that you did get. Maybe I could answer them, if that ' s the procedure that you would want to follow. MR. ASHLEY: When did you install the scrubber? MR. STOLTE: We started work on it . . .the last SUP meeting was here on June 24 . We started work on the scrubber immediately the next day. Completion date was the middle part of . . .probably about the first of August when we got it actually running good. The one test there, the opacity test . . .Mr. Fox came from the state and read them at 10-15% opacity, and I wasn' t too happy about that , but it was within the law, because we were allowed 20%. We added four more scrubber nozzles to the stack at that time, and then the next reading was 2%, and then when they came • out on our. . .we found one more chemical to add to the water to help absorb any dust that might be getting by the water. We added that , and the day of the test , our opacity was 0%, so we got our scrubber operating perfectly. MR. ASHLEY: That would be the reason for this gentleman ' s comment , that in November he could smell it , and he can ' t now. MR. STOLTE: What was that now? MR. ASHLEY: The first gentleman said he could smell it in November, but today he can 't . -7- MR. STOLTE: No , I don ' t believe he said that. I think he said late in last winter, he could smell it then. Now he cannot . We didn ' t have the scrubber. We were operating without the scrubber in June of last year, but now there is no odor to it , and the opacity. . . the particulate matter going into the air is nothing. It ' s a nice. . . MR. ASHLEY: I just wanted to figure out what had happened. What cleaned it up. MR. STOLTE: The dryer is set up on an interlock. You can ' t start the dryer without starting the scrubber. The water is the first thing that has to be turned on to put the plant into operation. And any time the water, electricity, motor, or what would go out on the water, it automatically shuts down the whole plant , so the plant cannot be operated without the scrubber device. MR. CARLSON: Les, there' s been some comment about stock piling the manure before you process it . Is this true? MR. STOLTE: No, it is not. MR. CARLSON: No stock piling at all? MR. STOLTE: No stock piling at Rolanda at all . MR. SUCKLA: What do you use this product for after you. . . -8- MR. STOLTE : What ' s that? MR. SUCILA : What do you use this product for after it ' s processed. MR. STOLTE: Feed and fertilizer. MR. SUCKLA: Do you sell it for livestock feed, or . . . MR. STOLTE: Yes . MR. SUCKLA: Or do you use it yourself . You sell it . MR. STOLTE: We sell it . We use some on our own stock, yes . MR. SUCKLA: I was wondering, for my own information, who ' s buying this? MR. STOLTE: Farr Better Feeds, Ralston-Purina. Where are several mills now that are buying it . -In fact , I think Well Ranch Way in Fort Collins. . .just about all the feed producers are using d7PW now as an ingredient . MR. HIATT: This is a state licensed product? MR. STOLTE: Oh, yes . Yes, we have a state feed label . The feed division comes out and checks our product , and takes samples , just like they do any other feed. -g- MR. CARLSON: Did they have an odor detector at that time, :Les, when they were checking for dust abatement or not. MR. STOLTE: Oh, yes. They took an odor test the day of the final permit . MR. CARLSON: And what were the results on that? MR. STOLTE: The results. . .they found one 15-1, which is allowable in a residential area, and that was right on the road, not too far from the plant , just for a matter of a second or two. That ' s why I wanted Mr. Fox to stay, because he ' s the one that did the odor test , and they went on all sides of the property, and took odor tests for a couple of hours. They were on the stack two days for this test that I just turned in. They actually get up there, and I 'm sure that you' re aware how this test is made, but they actually get up there and get their filters and weigh every pound of dust coming out of that stack, and they stayed up there for two days on that stack. You have to run continuously through the test. If you shut down or break down, then the test starts all over. There were 3 4-hour tests. MR. HIATT: Were there any breakdowns, then? MR. STOLTE: No. The state observed the test . They had two people there all the time during the test . I don' t remember if the county was there or not . I believe Ron Stowe was there one time. Is he. . . -JO- MRS . NORTON: Mr. Stowe is present in the audience. . . MR. STOLTE: Oh, yea. There he is in the back. MR. CARLSON: . . . statement from our chronic health man. MR. STOLTE: Okay, are there any other questions? MR. FORTNER: Could I clarify one paint . Your permit from the State Health Department was issued on November 30. I assume at that point you had thescrubber operating, and the chemicals that were going in to reduce the odor . MR. STOLTE: That is correct . MR. FORTNER: So that is the date we can look at , as saying that the odor that people smelled before should be corrected after that point . Correct? MR. STOLTE: Yes, that is correct. I 'm sorry. MR. CARLSON Okay , thank you. MR. ZARLENGO: I have two questions. Mr. Stolte, do you know whether or not there are similar plants located in this country. MR. STOLTE: Yes, there are. There are about 10 of them located in the United States. -11- MR. ZARLENGO: Have you personally visited any of these plants? MR. STOLTE: Yes, I 've visited all of them. MR. ZARLENGO: And do you know what type of area they' re located in. MR. STOLTE: Agricultural zones. MR. ZARLENGO: Thank you. MR. ZARLENGO: S would call Mr. Stowe as my last witness. I didn ' t know he was present. If he is, I would appreciate his coming forward. Mr . Stowe, I would appreciate it if you would give the Board the benefit of any input you have and your know- ledge concerning this operation. MR. STOWE: My name is Ron Stowe, and I 'm with the Weld County Health Department . November 30 Rolanda Feeds was given an emission permit from the State Health Department , and it has ten conditions on that permit that Rolanda is supposed to follow. We 've been out there . . . the state has been out there on December 22, and we were out there Saturday to try to monitor the operation. On Saturday , the odors were 15-1 , right next to the plant on County Road 51 ; that ' s just east of the plant . That ' s not a violation. Mr. Stolte said 15-1 was okay in a residential area. He should have said in the area where he is. In residential , -12- 15-1 would be a violation, but we ' d have to get a 15-1 in the town of either Hudson or Keenesberg to be a violation. For them to be in violation, we' ll have to get at least 31-1 and determine that they are not using the best practical treatments and methods, or they are not following the conditions of the permit . Then that would be a violation, 31-1 . Anything over 127 parts of clean air to one part of odoriferous air is a violation anywhere. MRS. WHITE : Now, are you talking about odor. MR. STOWE: I 'm talking about odor, now, yes . MRS . WHITE: For my information, how do you take an odor test . Do you have a machine. . . MR. STOWE: Okay, to be able to determine odor, I have to pass an odor certification school down at the State Health Department. My nose is essentially the instrument . However, there is a device. . . it ' s just a plastic box that has two charcoal filters on the top and the bottom. There ' s two z-inch holes at the top and the bottom. Clean air will go through them and go through the charcoal filters and be clean. Air going through the other end will not go through the charcoal filters . . .there ' s different size holes at that end, and they determine the pollu- tion to my nose at this end with the clean air, so, like 127 to 1 . . . there ' s 127 parts of the cleaned air with one part of the bad air coming in the other end. Then it goes to my nose. If I can -13- detect that at a different dilution, then it would be a violation, you know, wherever the violation says. You know. 7-1, 15-1, 31-1 , or 170-1 . That ' s the violation. MR. CARLSON: You mean, it passes through two charcoals, and if it passes through charcoal at a 15, and you smell it, it ' s a 15. If it passes through less. . . MR. STOWE: Okay, the charcoal is just to clean, to deodor- ize the air. There is air going through the one end. It doesn ' t get the charcoal . The charcoal is just to provide proper propor- tion to make that dilution, yes, but if I can detect it at 15-1 , then that ' s a 15-1 dilution to threshold, is what it ' s all about . Now, about the opacity from the plant . . . MR. FORTNER: Ron, can I ask you one more question. You indicated that 31-1 was a violation, and the State Health Depart- ment says it is 15-1 , where do you come up with 31-1? MR. STOWE : Because in Section 3A of Regulation 2, it says that any manufacturing or agricultural process, if they're using the best practical treatment and method and stuff like that , then it would have to be in excess of 15-1 commercial limit , which is in Number 2 of that regulation. It ' s in excess of that , so it would have to be 31-1 , and that would have to be if they ' re not following the conditions of their permit , if they 're not adding the ortho-benzine solution or whatever. -14- MRS. NORTON: To your knowledge, is Rolanda Feeds following the conditions of the permit? MR. STOWE: As far as I know, the state hasn' t taken a sample yet . That ' s scheduled some time. . . MRS. NORTON: The state will check that periodically? MR. STOWE: We don ' t have the equipment to do the testing for those constituents. You need a glass liquid "in- audible" , and we don ' t have that equipment . In response to the opacity coming out of the stack. . .ever since the scrubber has been put on and has been operating right, there haven' t been any problems with opacity . That has cleared that up very well . MR. CARLSON: Well, then, do you, representing the Health Department of Weld County, feel like he has made definite moves towards cleaning his operation up and it ' s running in. . . MR. STOWE : After we got them to put the scrubber on, yes . MR. CARLSON: That ' s what I mean. Today , it 's operating. . . MR. STOWE: Well , it was Saturday when we were there. It was operating 15-1 . There ' s some odor. I 'm not saying it ' s com- pletely gone, but it was at 15-1 ; it ' s not a violation . -15- MRS. WHITE : Have you made more than one test? MR. STOWE: We just did that . . . I went out Friday, and they weren ' t operating when I was there, and then I went out Saturday , and they were operating. Dick Fox went out December 22, and he couldn 't make an observation because the winds were going at 45 miles an hour, and there was all kinds of dust blowing around. He couldn ' t do; that was the problem. I was on vacation for three weeks in December, so I wasn' t able to go out there in December. MR. NIX: How often is it reasonable for the county to go out there and make these tests or check on this. How often is it reasonable. MR. STOWE: We could go out there every day if we were required to. . . the testing on odor, you mean. . .what we 've been trying to do. . .you know, if somebody complains, we've been trying to respond as fast as we can on a complaint. That ' s the way it ' s been. Plus normal monitoring would be about once every two weeks. That would be a lot of -monitoring once every two weeks . Normal way a source is set up, the state Drily tests them about once or twice a year, and we try to do it at least four times a year on a source. MR. NIX: I guess my point is that the operation can ' t be any better than the machinery and the people that operate it . -16- MR. STOWE: Right, that 's true. -There ' s always that potential . That ' s why the conditions of the permit were drawn up that they would have to add the additives when a certain level in their water tank got to a certain point, to make sure that they had the chemicals in solution, so that they wouldn' t have that operator type of problem. That ' s what I 'm saying. MRS . WHITE : You follow up a complaint, is that right'? MR. STOWE : We try to. There was one complaint in _December that we didn ' t get to, .because. . . MRS. WHITE: -Have you had quite a few since they put the scrubber on? MR. STOWE: The whole operation, through the whole his- tory of it, there ' s been a lot of complaints on it , yes. MR. CARLSON: Zately? MR. STOWE: Well , in the last month, we ' ve just had one complaint that I received in my office. I can find it in here for you somewhere. I think it was the 14th of December. That was in the last month. That was the only one I received in that time. MR. HIATT: How far away was this complaint registered from the plant . -17- MR. STOWE: That individual lives about. . .well , the individual said he was driving into Keenesberg that morning, and he noticed a smog-type layer hanging over the valley, and saying it was from Rolanda. This individual lives about a mile away from the plant itself , about a mile or mile and a half away from the plant . MRS . NORTON: Did I understand you to say that the odor could meet the state standards of the rural area, that it could still be offensive, in your opinion. MR. -STOWE: John Hall and myself were in the odor plume the other day. . .you' re in that plume and it ' s noticeable. I wouldn ' t want to live in that plume all day. MR. CARLSON: I wish they ' d put rubber tires on the scrubber bucket . MR. STOWE : The plume is associated with the steam coming off the stack, and it '-s very easily defined, and if you 're downwind from that stack, I 'm sure it ' s noticeable, but there are state standards on that . That ' s the way it is . MR. CARLSON: Okay. Thank you. MR. FORTNER: Ron, while you're up there, why don' t you go through the conditions of the State Health Department permit , and go condition by condition, and indicate why those conditions -18- were opposed, and what they are designed to control in terms of the operation of the plant . MR. STOWE: Okay, the first condition is that the emission rate of particulate matter does not exceed 23. 0 pounds per hour and is not greater than 20% opacity. The opacity problem, they did have before the scrubber. On the 23 pounds an hour, that 's calculated how much could be coming out of the stack if they didn' t have the control equipment on it . Number 2, that the emission of odorous air contaminates does not exceed that allowed by the Air Pollution Control regulation 2. . . that I just discussed with you . . .that the feed water rates discovered maintained not less than 25 gallons per minute. That was set up, because that can be easily monitored by anybody making an inspection of the plant , because they have a gauge on that line going into the water nozzles, the spray in the scrubber. MR. FORTNER: Wait a minute, you said they designated 25 gallons per minute because they could read it easier. Why didn 't they say 28 gallons or 20 gallons? MR. STOWE: Okay, I 'm sorry. Because that was the gallonage being used at the time of the testing on November 21 and 22, when the stack testing was performed. Number 4, that the scrubber be operated at pressure differential, measured across the venturian associated mist in the air of at least 6.6 inches of water. And that was also the calculated measurement when they were doing the stack test , and what I think they found to be best pressure -19- differential in the equipment. Number 5, that the direct firing rotary dryer be operative between 200 and 275 degrees Farenheit at all times. At higher temperatures, you' ll be burning the manure itself , and will be creating problems in the drum and also with increased odor and particulate matter . Number 6, that the direct firing rotary dryer be operated with a raw material input no greater than 20 tons per hour. That was what they calculated. . .well, that was the maximum input that the state felt should be used with the drum engineered the way it is, and that was also what they were using when that test was performed, the 20. tons per hour. Number 7, that the scrubber feed water be chemically treated prior to injection for the scrubber to control emissions . This treatment shall consist of the following constituents at the following minimum concentration: a) most afiable ortho-dichloral benzine at 0. 125%; b) H2S04 at 0. 0063%; c) wex, it ' s a chemical surfactant , at 0. 063%. Those numbers. . .they have a 4, 000 gallon water tank, and those percentages come out to, I believe, 5 gallons of ortho-dichloral benzine with the 4, 000 gallons of water, a quart of HaSO4, and a quart of wex. That ' s what those come out to be. The ortho- dichloral benzine is an oxidizing agent to oxidize the odorous emissions. Number 8, that a new batch of chemically treated feed water be made when 75% of the previous batch has been ex- pended. The above chemicals shall be added to the feed water tank prior to the addition of any new water. A log shall be maintained when each batch of feed water is prepared and the quantities of chemicals added. These logs should be available for inspection upon request . That was to try to insure -20- that we don't have. . . not adding the additives when the tank is empty . Number 9, that a sample of the scrubber feed water be taken at least once per week and analyzed for its chemical con- stituents . A report of such analyses shall be reported to the Air Pollution Control Division on a monthly basis . Rolanda has asked, requested, that Number 9 be changed, and this is presently being processed. MR. FORTNER: What kind of change are we talking about . MR. STOWE: Number 9 we are talking about . . . MR. FORTNER: Well , what kind of change to Number 9. MR. STOWE: Well , the state has submitted a change to Rolanda to say that Rolanda Feeds shall submit to the division copies of their logs showing dates, times, quantity of scrubber water additives used and the name of the individual responsible for formulating the mix. Copies of all purchase orders and in- voices for such chemicals used in the scrubber water shall be furnished to the division. "inaudible" and submissions shall be provided to the division each month and certified, authentic by a company official . That hasn 't been accepted by Rolanda yet . They have to make their decision. And Number 10, the division reserves the right to take whatever samples it deems necessary to insure compliance with the conditions of this permit . And that gives the state the leeway to go in without prior notifica- tion to sample their scrubber water. -21- MR. HIATT: I have one question. It seems to me that by reading this, the state has set up a brand new set of figures here. For the first time in the state? Is this the first one they 've set up, they 've figured on, the allowance. . . the allowable emission rates, and so on and so forth. Is this a first for the state? MR. STOWE: Not with respect to odor or opacity. MR. HIATT: On this type of equipment? MR. STOWE: On any type of equipment . The state regulation on any kind of a stationary source is a 20% opacity, and any source that exceeds the odor regulations, you know. . .that ' s all set up . I mean, there is a chemical company, even in Greeley here, that has to meet the odor regulations. MR. HIATT: IBasically the same thing? MR. FORTNER: It was basic to the whole thing is the standard opacity odor. That they 're saying for the conditions is the at in order emissions under which the equipment must be operated to meet those standards . "Inaudible" . MR. STOWE: There are other companies that do have condi- tions, their permits are conditioned, but I don' t know what examples to give you. 1 -22- MR. CARLSON: Thank you. MR. ZARLENGO: I have two questions. Mr. Stowe, do you believe that if the compliance with those ten requirements will keep the Rolanda plant within compliance with state pollution laws? MR. STOWE: Well , when Mr. Fox and Mr. Kingsley were there on November 21 and 22, these were operating conditions at that time, and they were the conditions that was meeting the standards at that time. MR. ZARLENGO : You've been working with Mr . Stolte and his group since about last June, have you not , Mr. Stowe. MR. STOWE: At least . MR. ZARLENGO: And do you find them to be concerned and conscientious concerning the correction of the problems if any existe-d? MR. STOWE : They were concerned about their problems, yes. MR. ZARLENGO: And then they took positive action towards correcting the problems, isn 't that a fair statement? MR. STOWE: Yes, okay. -23- MR. ZARLENGO: Thank you very much. MR. CARLSON: Let 's go on. MR. ZARLENGO: I have no further witnesses to present . I would have a brief summation to make, but perhaps it might be better for you to proceed with anyone else who is here. MR. CARLSON: That ' s fine. At this time, I would just like to have the staff ' s comments, please. MR. McWILLIAMS : See attached Staff Comments, dated January 17, 1978. MR. CARLSON: Now, I want to ask you a question. Is this' received on the odor issue, is this state input. Is that what you' re looking to receive? MR. FORTNER: Well , before this case was first heard by the Planning Commission , we had significant input from the surrounding property owners in the area, from quite a wide area down there, that they were definitely getting an odor from the operation at the dehydrating facility. Since the time that the scrubber was installed, and since the water containing the chemicals reduced odors have been used, we have essentially received no input in terms of whether that has brought control to the odor problem, or whether it has not . I guess it ' s the staff ' s opinion before we receive some input from both the applicant and the surrounding -24- property owners on that , we couldn ' t feel like we could make a full evaluation on the application and make recommendations to you until we had that input , which we thought we' d probably get at this hearing today. MR. CARLSON: Okay, any questions of the staff ' s comments. MR. NIX: Why don ' t you hear from the audience. MR. CARLSON: Okay, do we have other people here that want to speak. . Keep your comments kind of brief if you can, and step up to the mike and state your name and address, and your feelings. MR. SHAKLEE: My name is George Shaklee at 7627 Road 49. MR. FORTNER: Could you tell us what direction and what location you are from the plant . MR. SHAKLEE: Northwest, about a mile and a half from the plant . On August 2, I turned in petitions to the county planning staff containing 728 names in opposition to this. I presume they are in evidence. MRS. NORTON: Yes, they are "inaudible" . MR. McWILLIAMS : Yes. MR. SHAKLEE: And it is my comment that this thing still -25- stinks. The scrubbers did not take out any of the odors, whatso- ever , and the odor is as bad as it ever was, and as time goes on, people are being affected in other directions because of different wind currents. Keenesberg has had a constant dose of it. It hasn' t been quite as bad at our place since the June 21 hearing as it was prior to that date, because the winds have not been out of the southeast. But every once in a while it does come. . . you can just look up and see where the plume of smoke is coming as the wind starts to bend it and as the smoke bends, why here the smell follows. MR. FORTNER: Sir, could I ask a question before you step down. You said that you submitted a petition with 720 people objecting to that. Are you telling us that those same 720 people still object since the scrubbers have been installed. MR. SHAKLEE: I do. MR. FORTNER: Okay, have you verified that with those people? MR. SHAKLEE: No, sir. MR. ZARLENGO: I have a question, Mr . Oliuklee. Mr. Shaklee, did you personally circulate this petition? MR. SHAKLEE: Yes, sir. -26- MR. TARLENGO: Did you personally obtain each and every name on this petition? MR. SHAKLEE: No, sir. There were quite a number of us that circulated these. MR. ZARLENGO: So , you didn't personally obtain these signatures. I note that some of these signatures have addresses that appear to be Denver addresses. Is it true that you even took. . . I 'm looking at the first page and find 218 Grape Street . MR. SHAKLEE: Those are Hudson addresses, I believe. MR. ZARLENGO: Are all these addresses at Hudson? Are any of these out of the county, these addresses. Are some in Commerce City? Y MR. SHAKLEE: Not that I know of in Commerce City. They 're supposed to be all county residents. MR. ZARLENGO: They ' re supposed to be, but do you know if . . . MR. CARLSON: Just a minute. Just let all the other people make their comments, and then you can ask questions later, please. MR. ALTER: I would first like to address Mr. Zarlengo ' s question as to the. . . -27- MR. CARLSON: We need your name. . . MR. ALTER: I 'm sorry, I 'm Allen Alter; I live at 8465 Weld County Road. His questioning of the way the petitions were obtained. In each and every instance, on each and every one of these, there is a certified statement by a. . . I have the copies, the original copies of these at home, and in each instance, there is a statement signed by a notary public of the person that ob- tained these signatures, and there were about 12 of us or 15 of us involved. The originals are in my home. Each is signed. MR. CARLSON: Did you receive copies of the originals? MR. ALTER: We received copies. I don ' t believe we have the originals. • MRS. NORTON: Would you like me to indicate what ' s in this statement. . . the end of the petitions. . . an affidavit circulation , indicating that the undersigned circulated the petition for denial of the SUP. . . that the parties circulated the petitions by person- ally presenting it to the persons whose names appear on the peti- tion, and that each of the signatures printed on the petition is in fact the signature of the persons whose name it purports to be, and the address each of the signatures has presented on the peti- tion is correct. There is nothing appearing about whether or not the signatures are residents of Weld County or not . MR. CARLSON: And all of these names were gathered at what -28- time? MR. ALTER: These names were gathered over a period of about three weeks, is that correct? MR. CARLSON: When? NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Prior to August 2. MR. ALTER: It was prior to August 2, yes. MR. CARLSON: Prior to the time the scrubber was installed, and then. . . MR. ALTER: I ' d like to make a personal statement . The first time we had a meeting, and you have a record on file of a letter that I submitted. I was under the opinion that this would be closed, and I did not make any statement. I live approximately a mile and a half directly north or slightly north of. . .northwest of this facility. The stench caused by this facility has and is unbearable when the wind is bringing this particular stench in my direction. Thank God we only get it for a small period of time. I would like to make this statement for impact only. I 've served on the battlefields in three wars, and in each instance this reminds me of the bodies we left in the heat , and that ' s exactly the way it smells to me. It is intolerable. We have been asked to be patient . We have seen this thing tabled. We are seeing it tabled again, until we get more impact , but during the -2D- entire period of time that this has been tabled, ladies and gentlemen, we have had to suffer this stench. I don ' t know where these gentlemen live that say it doesn ' t smell, but they and I have a different idea of what a stench is. Now, there are a good many people out here, and we surround the area. . . I think we represent the group that surrounds the area. There were 728 people that felt that stench was unbearable previously. We have not confirmed that it is still in that condition with all 728, but there ' s a representation here that says it ' s still there, and I , for one, testify that it is still there. MR. CARLSON: Any further comments. Anybody else? MR. FORTNER: Could I ask that gentleman one question . What you' re indicating to us is that you still got the odor , and' you have smelled it since November 30, is that correct? MR. ALTER: I 'm saying that as late as last month. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Last week. MR. ALTER: Well , I didn ' t get it last week. I wasn ' t home during that time, but late last month. I can ' t give you a specific date. I was out working on the barn, and it came across there and only stayed a few minutes, and I thanked God that it was going somewhere else. It goes through there and moves on. MR. FORTNER: How often has this occurred since November 30? -30- MR. ALTER: Since November 30? I 'm going to tell you that I observed it twice , and if I had to go on oath for that , I would not go on oath, but it ' s been once or twice since November 30. MR. FORTNER: Thank you. MR. ZARLENGO: I ' d like to ask a question . You said you had 720 or so petitions against that . . . MR. ALTER : Signatures , sir . MR. ZARLENGO: I mean signatures , and I see a sizeable number in favor of it . It seems like everybody was either for or against it ; otherwise , I don ' t think there are that many people in the area . Has everybody taken an issue on it , either for or against it? MR . ALTER: No, sir , I don ' t know that , whether they ' re for or against it . All I know is that I presented that , person- ally walked it through many areas . I read the petition. In most instances, they welcomed the opportunity to sign it . There were a few that did refuse to sign it . All I 'm saying is that we had a school bond issue out there that represented 3. 2 million dollars and you had more signatures here than the majority of that in a lot smaller area. We only had 800 and some odd people participate in the school bond issue . -31- MR. ZARLENGO : Well , that ' s the thing I was wondering about these signatures . Were some of them minor children or . . .because I didn ' t think there were that many people in the area. MR. ALTER: Well , I know that in each instance in the ones I had, and we can find out , we can ask the folks if it ' s a requirement to support our case, we will ask those individuals that signed their name in front of a notary public as to how they obtained these , and we ' ll get a statement made by them as to how they obtained them and were they or were they not voting residents, and so forth. I 'm sure that everybody knows whose signatures they obtained. If that ' s a requirement , I 'm sure we can do this . Most of the people who obtained signatures are here in the room right now, and it has become something that we are against . MR. ASHLEY: Have you noticed any change in the odor since late summer? MR. ALTER : No , sir, except that the wind conditions have been such that most of the winds are out of the west now. and I 'm not getting the same . . . it isn ' t quite as annoying to me as it has been previously. I 'm not getting it as frequently. That ' s all . But , as far as the odor is concerned, the odor is the same as I smelled the first time . MR. ASHLEY: Not as often, is that it? -32- MR . ALTER : I 'm just not getting it as frequently . MR. FORTNER: I would like to ask just one more question . In terms of circulating this petition , how was the operation explained to people . In other words , what kinds of representa- tions were made to people in terms of what to expect . MR. ALTER: How did we explain to the folks? I couldn ' t testify to that , sir . I could tell you what I told them. MR. FORTNER: Okay, what kind of approach did you use? MR . ALTER: I took the approach as simply this , that I object to the smell ; I introduced myself , told them where I lived, and told them that the odor that was created by this was offensive to me. Was it to them? And I felt that if we did not get this thing stopped that we would, in fact , be confronted with a larger operation later on and that , in fact , we would have a real problem out there, whereas we have a major problem now, we ' d have a magni- ficent problem later on , and that ' s exactly the way I put it . MR. FORTNER: Okay , let me ask one more question. In terms of the 700. . .well , I don ' t know how many signatures you collected, but in terms of the people on those petitions , were those people that actually smelled the odor , or are they people who were antici- pating that the odor would. . . MR. ALTER : No , sir . In every instance that I talked to -33- the individual , they had smelled the odor and in almost every instance , they thanked me for coming around and bringing the petition , that they had heard there was one , and they did want to voice their . . . or participate in the petition. I think that the folks that are here - Mr . Denning , Mr . Shaklee , Dorothy . . . here are the folks that got the majority of the petition signa- tures . . . I think . . .Dorothy , you got a great many of those. Would you testify . MRS . GURTNER: Sure. MR. ALTER : Thank you . MR . FORTNER: Thank you very much. MR. FRITZLER: My name is Bob Fritzler , and I live a mile and a half to two miles east of the facility. I helped get some of the signatures , also . There were some names on this petition that were outside of the Keenesberg and the Hudson area; however , these were people who have relatives in there that spend weekends in there, that have campers , and so forth , that they ' ll spend time out there in the summer , and they felt , we felt that they also had a nose and that they could act as a witness just like anyone else . And I think that that might possibly be where some of the signa- tures come that are outside of the Hudson-Keenesberg area. When the Planning Commission last met to review this request 7 months ago on June 21 , this hearing room was filled with approximately SO people who objected to its operation . The objections of many -34- of these people could be narrowed down to several problems - the terrible odor and the flies . These people were not interested in opacity or particulates emitted from the operation, as has been discussed here before. The scrubber , Mr. Stolte stated, would be installed in four or five weeks was guaranteed to remove 99% of the odors. Mr. Glenn Paul stated this operation would have odors even if the scrubbers were in operation and passed particulate emission standards. These conditions have continued to exist for 7 months and the last hearing, with one exception ; the oper- ation is getting larger . I believe it was Mr. Nix who asked if they would want to invest in this scrubber and still face possible denial . They said yes , and even saw fit to increase other construc- tion on the site . . . of storage facilities on the site . Construc- tion or increasing facilities without permits is a violation of the laws drawn up to protect the property rights of the people • in the area. Why has this second hearing been so long in coming? Many of us feel that Rolanda has had ample time to correct their facility, but there appears that there is no sound solution to the odors as stated by Mr . Glenn Paul at the first hearing. The State Health Department approved the visible emission requirements around August 4 , but still everything is just the same for us for the past 5 more months . One of the questions I ' d like to bring up that was asked before there was no further input . After a while, it gets pretty futile to make complaints to people when you feel like it really doesn ' t make a whole lot of difference until it comes up before a hearing again. I ' d like to pass a photo around here. This photo was taken approximately one and a half miles from the site, and these people have no animals on their property, other -35- than the family cat and dog . This is a photograph of flies on their window. The woman that took the picture is here today, and she can testify that she did take the photo. I ' d like to take a look back to the meeting that we had last June . All of this is everyone that was for it , and down here on the bottom two, three lines , it stated that approximately 24 people stated that the problem they had was mainly with odor and flies , and that ' s the extent of it - three lines at the bottom. MRS. NORTON: Are you referring to the minutes of the Planning Commission? MR. FRITZLER: The minutes that were supplied to us , yes. This is all we have to show. The thing of it is that . . .what I 'm trying to express here is six months have gone by, we ' re all getting a little older and a little grayer , and I see that we have four people different on this board than we had before, and one of the things I ' d like to stress that it says in these minutes . . . Mr . Sheets of Sheets Poultry stated that since his facility has been in operation, he has experienced no flies , no problem with flies . He said that by cleaning up all the manure , that he no longer had the fly problem. This was a man that sells the manure to the Rolanda operation . Also , Mr. Purfurst of Texaco also stated that he had no problem since the chicken waste had been disposed of . Again , here ' s a business associate who delivers fuel to the Rolanda operation . I wonder how many people that live in the adjoining area would also be here saying we don ' t have any flies , we don ' t have any odor . This was taken at almost -36- exactly the same time as they stated, "We don ' t have any fly problems in this area. " I ask you , "Is that a normal fly situa- tion?" Also, right here in the middle of this , I have lined out here, Mr. Stolte responded by saying that the manure is processed before the end of the day. Yet , there has never been a day since the last hearing that the manure has not been piled somewhere around this site . In fact , there ' s been a pile of manure that must have caught fire by spontaneous combustion and has been burning for two months prior to Christmas. For two months , it was laying there smoldering . This is manure , and a lot of people around there have seen it . If these people can operate so flagrantly outside the promises they made to this Board, while still trying to obtain a SUP, or whatever type permit they are trying to go for , are the people living around this facility expected to be the policeman in the future and report all of these things that seem to be violations, and what seem to fall on deaf ears . As Mr . Shaklee stated, over 700 people have signed this signature, and there were 500 people in the area that voted down a school bond issue, which not only includes Hudson and Keenesberg , but Loch Buie . 500 people opposed it . Here we have 700, in excess of 700, that opposed this operation , whereas their original peti- tion was slightly over 200 , and there have been people that have wanted to take their signatures off that petition, because they felt it was obtained from them in the wrong way . This school bond issue was a 3 million dollar issue , and I think that shows a lot of impact in the area. I ' ve been impressed in the past with the presentation of these other people today seeking permits and so forth. In our last meeting in June , the way that they conducted -37- themselves in obtaining the necessary permits prior to moving , as in the last meeting , a fuel storage facility from one side of the property to the other side of the property. Here we have an after-the-fact thing saying this is what we ' re going to do . . .The people that are on this petition that are here in this hearing room today . . . they ' re not concerned with opacity or particulate matter . They' re concerned about what they smell and the flies that they' re trying to live with. As far as the people on the planning staff saying inadequate evidence of odor , we 've said many times that you could go on that site , on the perimeter road. . . you can stand there and see the steam going up. I don ' t know how many degrees that temperature is coming off of that stack , and I 'm certainly not an engineer , but it goes up , and you can see it out here, and it ' s going to go right over your head, but come on out to my place or go into the city limits of Hudson , or the city limits of Keenesberg when the wind is blowing the right way, and it comes back down and you have the odor. They say they haven ' t had ample input , but so far the input we try to give has been so futile that after a while , you think who do you talk to. . . you get as many people on a petition , as many people as you can to come up here and try to convince this board not to table it , but to make a decision . . . let us know what we' re going to have to live with. Thank you. MR. FORTNER: Sir , can I ask you where this picture was taken? MR . FRITZLER: What ' s that? -38- MR . FORTNER.: Where was this picture taken? MR . FRITZLER: On a window of a house. MR. FORTNER: How far from Rolanda? MR. FRITZLER: About a mile and a half . MR. FORTNER: Okay, is there anything else in that area that could cause a fly problem like that . MR. FRITZLER: Not as bad as the odor that we have. We don' t have any dead animals laying out in the yard, and this is what we ' re smelling, is dead animals. MR. FORTNER : No , I 'm not talking about odor . I 'm talking about flies. MR. FRITZLER : What do you mean , talking about flies. MR. FORTNER: Is there any other thing that would create a source of flies, other that Rolanda Feeds , in that area. MR . FRITZLER: Well , I ' ll tell you something. We 've never had anything like this before Rolanda was around. MR. FORTNER: Okay , thank you. -39- MR. CARLSON: Just a small response to that . I 've got a feed lot , and there ' s something else to bring up flies, if it ' s a mile and a half away. I don ' t think that ' s from the Rolanda. I think that ' s ridiculous to make that summation . Yes , sir . MR. BELL: I 'm James Bell , and I live at 7447 Weld County Road 49, which is about a mile and a quarter northwest of the plant , and we get the smell over there still yet just like it was before, but the last few months, the wind's been blowing towards Keenesberg , we get it off and on . Not like it was there last spring. Last spring , any time you went out in the yard, you lay your hands on anything , you go in the house, you had to wash, because it was on you, from the smell being there so long, it would just settle on anything. But , as I said, Keenesberg gets it now, because the wind' s been out of the west , more or less. We ' ll get it a day or two at a time , but not like it was last spring . Because their scrubbers haven ' t helped a bit . And at night , they run it so strong , that the wind is in my house vibrating at times , this here burner . I know what they' re doing ; I work for the State Highway Department . We gothot plants, and I know what it is . They ' re crowding it all they can crowd it to get it through while nobody' s around, so you can just take it for whatever it ' s worth. MR. CARLSON: Thank you , James . MRS . GURTNER : I 'm Dorothy Gurtner , and I live on Road 49 , a7o , about a mile and a half north and west of the plant . I have -40- one thing that I wonder about . We haven ' t noticed the smell , as they have been saying in the same area that I live in as much lately, because, evidently, the wind carries it over to Keenesberg or somewhere . I wonder is there a reason other than the wind that makes it smell so unbearable at times and then other times when you don ' t notice it . Because , when we do get it , it is just terrible, so I wonder if it ' s just the air conditions , or are they operating at a higher level , and most people you talk to will say the odor is more noticeable in the evening. The last time I can remember smelling it , we came home in the evening from a basketball game, and the odor was terrible , so it is in the evening when you notice the odor more. So that ' s what I wonder . Is it just the wind current or is there some other reason that the odor is so terrible sometimes. Related to that , what hours does it operate? Does it operate through the night? • Does it operate in the day time? Does it operate on a 24 hour basis? How often does it operate? They mentioned they had 21 people employed. I 'm curious to know what their turnover in employment is . I don ' t see how they can stand to work there. As they say , maybe the odor does go up and over to further away, but it seems like they' d have trouble. . . I 'm curious to know what their turnover is and the people working there . I did help circulate the petitions , and as some of the rest of them stated , many people that you talked to were glad that you came . You didn ' t have to convince them that it was bad or anything. Some people didn ' t know what the odor was, and so you had to tell them what it was , and they knew it often enough to know that that ' s what it was. Because it is a very distinctive odor. It isn ' t -41- anything that you' ve ever smelled before, so when the people who have been out there to take the tests , maybe it ' s been at a time when it isn ' t so oppressive and so unbearable. But at times when you get it , and I say we don ' t get it very often now, but when you do get it , it is terrible . MR. FORTNER : How many times have you smelled the odor since November 30, would you estimate? MRS . GURTNER: Just a couple of times ; as I say, it ' s not been often , but is that just because the wind has been wrong. MR. FORTNER: Okay, has that been during the day or in the evening? MRS . GURTNER: In the evening , so do they ever take tests in the evening . I doubt it . I bet it ' s always during the day . MR. FORTNER: You' ll have to take that up with the Health Department . John says yes they do. MRS . GURTNER: They do? Okay . MRS . NORTON: Mr . Hall, director of the Health Department , said . . . MRS . GURTNER: Also , what number , when we do get the odors , is there a number that we can call to let them know about it . -42- MR . FORTNER : John , do you want to give them your number? MRS . GURTNER: I 'm thankful we don ' t get it very often , but by the same way , somebody is probably getting it , so our good fortune is someone else ' s bad fortune . Thank you . MR . HALL: Maybe I can make just a brief comment or so. I 'm John Hall from the County Health Department . We try to be as receptive and sensitive to the complaints as we can , and I can very much vouch for the fact that we have been down there both in the a.m. and the p.m. I mean , before 8 : 00 in the morning, and after 5 : 00 in the evenings , and I can only say that we are there whenever we get a complaint , or we try to react as soon as possible . Of course , we ' re talking about maybe a 45 minute drive , and, unfortunately , or fortunately, however you want to look at • it , things change in that 45 minutes , and so we may or may not have a valid test when we get there, when we arrive there. That ' s just a logical type of problem, I guess , that should be pointed out . I think maybe it would be worth noting at this point that we, at the Health Department , in no way say that there is no odor. I think that Ron pretty much stated that there were odors detected in the 1 to 15 dilution to threshold ratio . To the unaided nose , that is an odor . Personally , I ' ve been with Ron and he has detected an odor at 1 to 15 through this centometer , and me , not being registered on the centometer , it still is an odor to me , so I ' d have to say that even though it does not violate the state odor regulations , there is still an odor for people. Now, who do you call . I guess I can go ahead and stick out my neck here and say 1 -43- that I 'm a county employee and public employee . I am listed in the phone directory, and even though I 'm not too excited about going out at 2 : 00 a.m. in the morning, I guess by virtue of the fact that my office, we ' ll see what we can do if you do call . John Hall in the phone book. John G. Hall . 353-4775 . MR. CARLSON: I think they 're maybe looking for your work number as well . MR. HALL: Yes , I ' d much rather you ' d call me at work. County Health Department . NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Can I ask a question? MR . HALL: Sure. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Did you notify Roland Feeds before you went out? MR. HALL: No . Never did. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : So, they never knew when you were coming to take the test? MR . HALL: The majority of the times they do not know when we ' re coming out . Well , sometimes when we ' re going to take a stack test then, of course, they know. Ron can bear me out on this . I ' d say that any complaint we receive , Rolanda has no notion _44 of it , or at least we surely don ' t notify them that we ' re coming out . MR. CARLSON: Any further questions of Mr . Hall? Any further comments? MRS . BRIDGEWATER : I 'm Mrs. Jim Bridgewater , and we live at 26383 Weld County Road 16 . I ' d like to say that I cannot tell that there' s one bit of difference , as far as this odor. . . it ' s just as offen- sive now as it was then. And like the fellows said, I know nothing about particulates or anything like this . I 'm a mother . It hits me at home when I ' d like to plan a picnic outside with my family. I ' d like to invite you up . I ' d guarantee you that you wouldn ' t eat . It ' s just that offensive . It is just bad enough that it ' ll turn your stomach. I tell you that I 'm the lady that took the picture of the flies . This was taken on the day that the wind carried the smell in our direction. On the days that it doesn ' t come out in our direction, we praise the Lord for that , but somebody' s getting it someplace else. The wind' s going in some direction , so even though I 'm tickled to death on the days that it doesn' t come my way , somebody else is having to live with it that day. I was in the drugstore this last month or two ago. No, I take it back. It was sometime in the summertime , and I made the remark to our druggist that it seemed like we ' d had more trouble with allergies this year , and he told me that he had never seen a time when there had been more allergies, that he had filled more prescriptions than he has in this year . I just wonder if there' s a possibility that there might be a connection -45- here . You ask about the number of people who had signed that petition. There are only 500 residents of Keenesberg, so this should show you how many people are concerned. This was not only obtained in Keenesberg , but the whole surrounding area, the people who are affected by it and can smell it . When I was here before and spoke before the panel last summer , I told you that my husband works at a plant approximately 10 miles away, and he has smelled the odor out there , and if you take and figure the radius of a circle that far around , that involves over 300 square miles of people who are having to put up with this. I can' t see that the scrubber has affected the odor , as far as me having to live with it one bit . It hasn ' t . . .maybe they ' ve complied with what they' re supposed to , but we still get the smell , and we have to live with it . MR. FORTNER: Can I ask you a question? How often have you smelled it since November 30? MRS . BRIDGEWATER: I would say about 3 or 4 times , but let me tell you, like I said before , the day I 'm not getting it , somebody else is, so I don ' t think that that is a valid point , because I just happened to be lucky that the wind wasn ' t coming in my direc- tion. I was in the beauty shop not very long ago. The fellow said he could not smell it in Keenesberg in his store , and the lady in the beauty shop was just raving about the smell . She ' s in the same street this gentleman' s business is on . She smelled it . My husband was in the barber shop , and there were several in there talking about it , so evidently somebody ' s got a bad cold or something -46- that their nose isn' t affected , because there are an awful lot of people that are smelling it . MR . CARLSON: What direction and how far do you live from it? MRS . BRIDGEWATER: I live about a mile to a mile and a half , and I live northeast . MR. CARLSON: Northeast? MRS . BRIDGEWATER: Northeast . MR. FORTNER: How long does the odor last when you get it? MRS . BRIDGEWATER: Well , the wind' s coming steady our direction. It could be all day. If the wind' s changing , then it ' s going to be carried to somebody else' s house for awhile . MR. FORTNER: John, could I ask you a question? In terms of the State Health Department Regulation Number 2 , there is a standard for residential and commercial areas , there is a standard for other land use areas, including agricultural . MR . HALL: Let me refer this question to Ron . He' s the air pollution individual in this respect . MR. FORTNER: I think the regulation states in predominantly 11_I -47- commercial and residential areas , you can have a dilution of 7-1 . In all other land use areas , it ' s 15-1 , in excess of those limits. And then again , in residents in that area outside an incorporated town , and you got a 15-1 reading, would that be considered a vio- lation? MR . STOWE: No , because of 3A. MRS . NORTON: That ' s practical knowledge? MR. STOWE: Because of the nature of . . . MR. FORTNER : Okay , let me ask you a different way. Could the 7-1 standard be applied as a residence outside of an incorporated area? MR. STOWE: I think it could be if the nature of the odor was not coming from that type of a facility . MR. FORTNER: Run through that again . I lost you. MR . STOWE: Because in 3A, it says that if it ' s in a manu- facturing or agricultural facility, it can ' t be in violation of either . . . MR. FORTNER: Okay, there ' s coming from another type of facility that wasn ' t exempted under that . The 7-1 standard could be applied at a rural residence . -48- MR . STOWE: It would have to be in excess of 7-1 or 15-1 , yes . MRS. NORTON: Doesn ' t the State Health Department map areas that it considers residential , or does it . . . MR . STOWE: I don ' t think the state has divided. . . I can ' t find anywhere where it is stated. MR . FORTNER: I was talking to the state yesterday. They said that that was a point of contention. I was just wondering if you had any answer for it . MR. STOWE: That ' s what I would say, yes. MR. CARLSON: As long as you ' re here , is there any chemical in any way , shape , or form that can be added to this that can cut the odor . It seems like anything else is all right , but the odor . MR. STOWE: There ' s other ways of controling odors . A chemical company in town is , in addition to a scrubber with a chlorine solution , they' re using an ortho-dichloral benzine solu- tion . They ' re using a chlorine solution , and they' re also using a carbon absorption type of a unit , where the air flow has to go through a charcoal bed, about a 6 inch charcoal bed. There ' s other ways of dealing with odors , but this is the one that Rolanda picked. -49- i MR . FORTNER: Do you consider what Rolanda picked to be the best practical technology? MR. STOWE: The state did, yes. 1 e 4 MR. KIEFER: Some point was made earlier , and maybe you could respond to it , since apparently you checked, I think you even asked, about the presence of stored wastes. The odor that 1 is being spoken about is from the processing, and not from any stored material . MR. STOWE: I would say that it ' s really easy to determine that most of the odor that we ' re getting off of that thing is right in steam plume itself . It comes off of that plume . You can just . . . say you ' re driving down County Road 51 , you can see where the steam is coming , and you get right into that odor , yes . It ' s super easy to tell with no problem. MR. KIEFER: The things that Gary was mentioning a while ago. . . I 'm still not very clear on them, but apparently you' re talking about whether or not such and such is okay for rural residents or not . What about if that plume was in Keenesberg or Hudson , would it change anything , or is it still exempt? ? MR. STOWE: In one of those towns , if we got it 15-1 , it would be a violation. The problem is is that it ' s 3 miles away , and you' re going to get some air dilution because there ' s 3 miles of air between you and the source ; that ' s why it ' s very hard to 6 -50- get 15-1 3 miles away . That plume is going to disperse . The only time the plume doesn ' t disperse very much is when there are high winds , say about 15 or 20 miles an hour , that plume will stay in a fairly concise origin at a good distance away and stay strong. That ' s when you can get a high reading. MR. FORTNER : You' re saying that the exemption does not apply in Keenesberg , then. MR . STOWE: Yes , I 'm saying that if it ' s 15-1 in Keenes- berg, it ' s a violation . MR. FORTNER: And they couldn ' t apply for exemption under 3A. MR. STOWE: I don ' t think so , not there. MR. KIEFER: Does the 7-1 and the 15-1 smell the same? MR. STOWE: It ' s the same odor, it ' s just . . . MR . CARLSON: Well , it ' s like a skunk, if you smell it a mile away or if you' re standing right on top of it . It ' s the same smell . . . MR . STOWE: It ' s the same smell , yes , it ' s just the intensity is different . MR. CARLSON: One of them makes your eyes water , and the -51- other one just kind of tickles your nose. MR. HIATT: Indeed, which does it do? Does it make your eyes water, or does it tickle your nose? MR. STOWE : At 15-1 the other day, I would say it "tickled my nose" . It didn ' t make my eyes water . I wouldn't want to live in that 15-1, but it was a noticeable odor to the unaided nose. MR. HIATT: Even to the educated nose, it would smell . MR. SUCKLA: Did you find the 15-1 after they put in the scrubber? MR. STOWE : Yes, that was Saturday. MR. CARLSON: Well , I think we' ve got one problem, and that 's to clean up the smell , somehow. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: No way to clean it up except to move the plant . NOT IDENTIFIABLE : That ' s right . NOT IDENTIFIABLE: Amen. MR. CARLSON: I don ' t know. Any further comments from people in the audience? -52- MR. DENNING: I 'm Bob Denning , and I live at8654 Road 49, about 2 miles northwest of the plant . There isn ' t too much I can add. The plant does stink like a truck load of rotten cattle, that have been dead, you know. I circulated one of the petitions, and I can verify that every signature on there of the petitions that I circulated, were in Weld County in and around Keenesberg and Hudson , Colorado , and they were well aware of what they were signing , and they were against this. I would like to ask the Planning Commission . . . normally if a contractor would go out to start a building project somewhere without a building permit , you would shut him down, right? MR. FORTNER : Yes, basically. MR. DENNING: Why wouldn ' t this outfit shut down until they obtained the right permits. MR . FORTNER: Okay , in this particular case, there was no way of getting a State Health Department permit established. . . MR. DENNING: Excuse me, we ' re not talking about the State Health Department . We ' re talking about a permit to operate , right? MR. FORTNER : Yes , we ' re talking about a permit to operate. MR . DENNING: Why were they allowed to operate without this permit? -53- MR. FORTNER: Okay, as I was indicating , at the time this violation was there , we could have put a stop work order on it , which we essentially talked to them, and said that they had to have a permit , and taken it to court if we had to. The only prob- lem was that the same time we told them that , they applied for the permit , and essentially what our attorneys have told us , if we went to court with something like that , while they were going through the permit process , the court would just throw it out anyway. MR. DENNING: Just like that . In other words, we don ' t have to abide by this permit law if we don ' t want to . MR. FORTNER: Yes, we ' ve got to abide by it . MR. DENNING: Well , that isn ' t what you said . MR. FORTNER: But when somebody ' s trying to take corrective action, the court isn ' t going to do anything in terms of a judgment on it , as long as they' re taking corrective action to get things cleared up. MR. HAYES : My name is Russell Hayes , and I live about a mile and a half south of the operation , and, I have a few questions here that I would like answered, so that I could talk a little more intelligently about the thing. If I were to talk as I felt , I probably couldn ' t use the language in this room. Have tests by the Air Pollution Commission been made in the cities of Keenesberg -54- or Hudson? MR . CARLSON: I think their people left . MR. FORTNER : No , they ' re right over there . MR. HAYES : Yes , if you could, please . I ' ll direct these questions to the Commission , and if you could. . . MR. STOWE: Some of the times we 've got complaints, I ' ve driven through Hudson , because that was the direction of the wind, and there were no noticeable odors there , and we went out to Keenes- berg, and the same situation was there. Then we' d go back to the site , and close in on the problem, per say; that ' s what we 've done . That ' s what we ' ve tried to do . You can see which way the wind ' s • blowing , which way the stack' s blowing, instead of having to go to both towns , just go to the nearest town to determine what the problem is . MR. HAYES : Then would you say atmospheric conditions do have a very definite bearing as to the quantity and quality of this smell? MR. STOWE : Yes . Most definitely. MR. HAYES : Thank you . My other question was , what are the air quality standards the city has in relation to agricultural land, and I think that ' s already been discussed here . The next -55- question I have is how a present zoning law is written as to a commercial operation in an agricultural zone. MR. FORTNER : Primarily. . . I ' ll answer that , Mr. Chairman. . . in agricultural areas , when we' re looking at a basically an agri- cultural operation that is intensive , they require a SUP in order to operate within the agricultural zone . It was determined in this case that that is what would be required in the SUP in order for it to be able to operate in the agricultural zone district . MR. HAYES: That was not an answer to my question . I asked how the present zoning law is written as far as a commercial operation in an agricultural zoned area. Not at agricultural aperation . This is not an agricultural operation . It is a com- mercial operation in agriculturally zoned area. Would you have a copy, Mr . Chairman, of the laws , present laws and charters that ' s required for a commercial operation in an agricultural zoned area? MR. CARLSON: In our . . . MR. ASHLEY: That ' s not allowed. You couldn ' t put in it an ag area. MR. HAYES : Pardon? MR. ASHLEY: You couldn ' t put in it an agricultural area. . . MR . CARLSON: Unless it ' s zoned. -56- MR. ASHLEY: Unless it ' s zoned MR . HAYES : That ' s my point . MR. CARLSON: Change the zone . MR. HAYES : That ' s my point . MR. ASHLEY: You' ll have to change it . MRS . NORTON: That ' s never been "inaudible" . The determination was made that this proposed use was similar to the uses listed that require SUP , rather than being in industrial commercial use. MR. CARLSON: So I thought it was an SUP. MR. HAYES: Who made that determination? MRS . NORTON: The Planning staff . MR. HAYES : The Planning staff? MRS . NORTON: The Planning staff always makes that deter- mination . MR . HAYES : Do you have laws presently that you use as guidelines that require certain stipulations to be met to be in compliance with the zoning law. -57- MR. FORTNER: In terms of the standards that we review this by, they are very general standards. Basically, harmony with the character of the neighborhood, compatitility. . .well , let me read it . The Planning Commission and the Board of County Commissioners shall consider the following in making a deter- mination in approving or denying a SUP. Compatibility with the surrounding area, harmony with the character of the neigh- borhood, and -existing agricultural uses, need for the proposed use, its effect on the immediate area, its effect on future development of the area, and the health, safety , and welfare of the inhabitants of the area and the county. Those are the general standards that are used in evaluating -a SUP. MR. -HAYES : Okay, those are the general terms. Now, to be more specific, what are the requirements as far as stor- age of commodities that are manufactured on the premise ibefore they can be sold commercially. MR. CARLSON: Well , that ' s just taking care of their business. If there were "inaudible" stored on the premises, that 's part of the business in an SUP zoning. MRS . NORTON: There are things that are called develop- ment standards , which are placed upon the plan of the SUP, which would govern things like that . -8- MR . HAYES : And what are they? MRS . NORTON: They are not specifically. . .because there are so many different uses that can require a SUP, those things are developed during the hearing process . . . MR. CARLSON: Everyone of them is set forth and discussed individually according to each item, because you couldn ' t set forth a standard for chickens and a standard for cattle the same way. You understand? MR . HAYES : Well , I understand that by having read the requirements there, that this SUP did require that this material be stored on the grounds in excess of a year to qualify for a SUP. MR. CARLSON: These articles here that we are dealing with. . . in order to have anything that ' s above that is originally zoned in our Weld County zoning and our comprehensive plan , if it ' s per- taining to agriculture and to a larger standard that ' s in the plan , it has to go through a SUP. In this SUP, we set a quality or development standards along each one individually, as I stated before, and that ' s the way we have to try to deal with each indi- vidual as an individual , not as a blanket cover . You can ' t take a blanket cover and use it anything pertaining to agriculture , because agriculture covers so many facets that you just can ' t use blanket policy. MR. HAYES : Well , as I view this thing, I 'm looking at -59- this not as an agricultural operation , but it would be my opinion that this is, in fact , a commercial operation , where they are selling the finished product and manufacturing it in a agricultural . . . MR. CARLSON: Basically speaking, it is an agricultural operation , because it is using an agricultural product and pro- ducing an agricultural fed product , so the orientation of it is agriculture , and you have to deal with it as such . MRS. NORTON: Section 6. 11 of the zoning resolutions is on page 31 . I ' d like to read that . In any zoning district where a building structure or use is enumerated, any other building struc- ture or use which is similar to those enumerated, and no more "inaudible" are detrimental to the area in which it is located shall be permitted. That section was applied to looking at a list of uses allowed under SUP in determining that this would go through the SUP process, rather than "inaudible" resulted to commercial , industrial , or whatever. Among the list of SUP, special uses are fertilizers , storage , organic "inaudible" and sale, where the fertilizer is stored for more than one year are subject to some additional requirements . . . sewer systems compensations, and such are subject also to additional requirements . It was determined that these were the same type of facilities , as far as impact of the surrounding area; therefore , it would go to the SUP . MR. HAYES : That was your determination , then? MRS. NORTON: It was made by the Planning department , and -so- -discussion was in our office. MR . HAYES : Okay, thank you. I had a couple of other questions here . Number 1 , we 've been living with this thing; it hasn ' t been for the last six months or since November. We 've been living with this thing now for 21 years, and we have tried everything we can. We have talked to every conceivable agency about the problems we have, and living out there in the rural area, we find outselves having to make long distance phone calls to contact anybody. In fact , we can ' t call out of our own town without it being a long distance call , so maybe this is some of -the reason that you people in these different agencies have not been hounded by us to seek some sort of a suitable solution to the thing . It would be my recommendation that if this operation were moved to a less densely populated area, that it would not have the effect on the people that it is having. And as far as stock piling the manure , there was one remark made to that wherein that there was stock piling manure that was . . . that has been burning for quite a lengthy time , and I 'm sure this manure . . , from watching the operation down there has moved from one plot of ground to the other , and this is a common occurrence. This manure is claimed not to be the plant ' s manure that they are utilizing, yet there are vehicles and trucks between . . . a storage or stock pile of manure down there is supposedly being used to be spread on the ground for fertilizer . The scrubbers have not reduced the odor, and as far as the number of times this thing has occurred, I would say since November, you could put me down for 15 times . This has been so strong at times that it ' s seeped within the closed house during these winter months. We can gather the thing. . . it enters into the house, and it ' s severe enough that you' d lose your appetite before dinner. Again, may I point out that this odor is not confined to Hudson or Keenesberg. These winds have taken the thing far in excess of the mileage between these two cities. As I said at an earlier meeting, or in the meeting before the Planning staff , that I 've had a fly problem there and it ' s been severe. -In fact , I 've had to have my place airily sprayed to combat the flies, and this was for a very short period of time. I would say within a few days, they were back as hot and heavy as ever, and these flies. . . I don ' t know where they ' re coming from, but I can say this. I 've never had to have the place sprayed before this plant has been in operation. MRS . WHITE : How long have you lived in the area? MR.HAYES: I ' ve lived in the area going on into ten years. MR. SUCKLA: May I ask a question? You stated that there was manure burning there for a considerable length of time. MR. HAYES : That ' s correct . MR. SUCKLA : Now, this odor. . .you're assuming it ' s coming _from this operation . -Isn' t it possible that it ' s coming from this burning manure. -62- MR. HAYES : Yes, I think possibly there could be some amount of it coming from the burning manure , but there again, we have. . . it ' s a pretty good wind indicator. . .to know which direction the wind is coming. If you smell the thing, I know one thing, that the wind is out of the north. We can look at the thing. In fact , the thing ' s in direct view of my house, and we can see the circulation. The circulation patterns change constantly -as the wind changes. In fact , I ' ve seen it within 15 minutes. . . the plume of smoke go in a different direction. . . 180 degrees some- times . MR. EUCKLA : Well, I 've seen that in our neighborhood there. . .we have a neighbor that has horses, and they stock pile that bedding, and they burn it every so often, and when they burn that manure, it ' s pretty potent . MR. HAYES : Well , this is it , then. I guess the operation of the plant , as l would look at it , wouldn ' t be any more potent than the smoldering manure or burning manure, when, in fact , they are doing the same thing. In other words, whatever' s in the manure is being burned, too, and maybe this would describe the very offen- sive smell that we are experiencing. MR. CARLSON: -'hank you, Russell . Any further comments? It ' s been brought up two or three times about the fact of burning manure. Can you explain this? MR. ZARLENGO: Yes , can I recall Mr. Stolte. I do have two -63- or three questions -that I would like to bring up. Mr. Stolte? Do you stock pilo any manure on your property? MR. STOLTE: No , we do not. MR. ZARLENGO: Is there a burning stack of manure on your property? MR. STOLTE: Lloyd had some manure that he was using on his field that lay west of Rolanda' s property, and it was burning. In fact , Ron Stowe notified him of that , I believe. Didn ' t you, Ron? MR. STOWE : Yes, I was talking about the dump on his property. MR. STOLTE : Well , whatever it was last week. He was notified of it , that it was on fire. MR. ZARLENGO : Is this adjacent to the Rolanda plant? MR. STOLTE : Yes , it 's an adjoining property. MR. ZARLENGO : Is it part of the Rolanda outfit? MR. STOLTE : No , it is not . MR. ZARLENGO : Are there flies accumulating on your property -64- in association with your operation? MR. STOLTE: No, we try to keep good control of the flies; of course, at this time of the year, you don't have any flies, but we constantly sprayed for flies last summer, and we didn' t have any problem at all with flies. MR. ZARLENGO: Would you tell the Planni-ng Commission how much money you have invested since last June in the scrubber and the equipment that you're using to comply with the state health laws? MR. STOLTE : Well , the scrubber was $100, 000. The state stack test was $3500, and incidentals are about another $"5`000, so we ' re probably looking at about ] 2b to 135 thousand dollars invested in the plant to control odors and emissions. MR. ZARLENGO: It ' s your intention to comply with the ten requirements set forth on the permit , is that correct? MR. STOLTE : Oh, no question about it . We have those. . . we ' re using those practices right now. The water samples are at the lab, and they are sent in :regularly. We' ve complied with every request , including drawing up platt for these SUP' s. immediately when we were asked to do it last June, we immediately had everything drawn up and a complete proposal of our operation to the Planning Commission. -65- MR. ZARLENGO: For how long has Rolanda been operating? MR. STOLTE : Rolanda was incorporated January 28,1977, so not quite a year. MR. ZARLENGO: Are there odor—producing things on farms besides manure? MR. STOLTE: Yes, quite a few things . MR. ZARLENGO: What things produce odors? MR. STOLTE : Feed lots , there ' s odors from feed lots. I was on a feed lot for many years, so I know that that ' s one of the biggest contributors to odor, Or on farming areas, when you go to spread -manure on fields , of course, there 's odors. Stagnant water in lakes, there 's odors. . The list goes on and on. MR. ZARLENGO: Do one of these conditions exist around the _Rolando plant — manure , stagnant water, or things like that that produce odors? MR. STOLTE: No . MR. ZARLENGO : There' s nothing around there. MR. STOLTE: Like I say, we process this manure when it comes in , we -pour a concrete slab, we dump it an the concrete, -66- we clean up the concrete slab , we immediately get the moisture out of it and put it away. The drying material doesn ' t have any odor to it at all . MR. ZARLENGO: My question was , are there any farms around the Rolanda plant that have things such as -manure, or anything else that produces odor? MR. -STOLTE: Oh, yes, there are several dairies between Keenesberg and the plant , and there' s several . . .we have cattle. . . Mr. Land has Battle down on 52 that is a feed lat . There is a feed lot an Rolanda property with about 200 head of steers that produce some actors. MR. CARLSON: I want to ask you another question. A state- ment was made here that they' ve smelled this smell. -for 21 years , and you said that you just started a year ago . How can that be? MR. STOT,TE : Well , they had a small dryer — Lloyd and another fellow had a small dryer there for a period of time, but as far as Rolanda was concerned and this larger ;fryer, just since January of 1-977. MR. KIEFER: Pardon -me. Who is Lloyd? . Where is that property located? You mentioned a while ago the stock pile or the burning manure . Where would that have been located? MR. STOLT-E : That ' s located northwest of Ttolanda' s property. -67- MR. KIEFER: Northwest . MR. STOLTE : It ' s an adjoining farm. MR. CA-RLSON: Any further _iuestions? MR. NIX: Mr. Stolte, you 're manufacturing this supple- ment feed for sale entir-ely, or are you. . . MR. STOLTE : No , we use some of it on our own _cattle. We have about 700 steers down there nn feed, that we' re using some of it on our own cattle. MR. NIX: I think it ' s obvious that it ' s a commercial operation, and commercially oriented, more than agriculturally • oriented, as I view the situation. MR. STOLTE : Well , I vi-ew it a lot of ways. One of the ways I view it is it 's a very beneficial thing to the people who have the chicken farms that produce the eggs. Before our operation, they _didn' t have any place to go with this manure. The farmers can use it in the spring, they can use it in the fall , but during the summer and during the winter, they can 't use it , and the 1 health departments . . .both the Weld County Health Department and the State Health Department have told me that these places don' t have the problems now that we 're picking up the manure from them and -keeping them cleaned up. So I 'm looking at a beneficial way there . I 'm looking at it as an agricultural product . It is -68- definitely an agricultural product and it is definitely an agricultural use. This year we' re going into the fertilizer a little bit with it , and fertilizer is definitely an agricul- tural product . It ' ll be bagged and sold. MR. NIX: It ' s pretty obvious , though, from the evi- dence that has been presented here that in so doing you're creating a nuisance. . .perhaps maybe even be more of a detriment than yon are beneficial , when you have established your operation in an agricultural area, it seems to me that as much area that we have in this county, that if I was creating the kind of nuisance that you people seem to be, I think _I woulti take a good hard look at moving where I wouldn 't be a nuisance to my neighbors . MR. STOLTE: I non ' t even know how to answer that, because I don ' t think that ' s a fair evaluation for anybody unless they come out and see the operation. I think. . . I don ' t think there 's anything we' re doing to the neighbors -that is of this nature. MR. ZARLENGO : You don ' t have to answer . . . don ' t answer any thing else. That ' s all . Okay, I 'm through with the questions . Anyone else have any questions? We have nothing further to present . NOT IDENTIFIABLE: I have a question. Have you seen the. . . do you have any "inaudible" or anything on this type of facility that they have out there, or what their By-stem looks like. -69- MR. tARLSON: All but two of the members have been out there, and have at least driven by and looked at the situation there. MR. f'RITZLER: Well , I ' d like to pass this around. This as a picture that came out of the Keenesberg paper on the operation at Rolanda. . .the facilities that they have out there, and one of the things that I maintained is if you look at all at it , the construction that they have involved there, that it looks to me like it ' s the same type of operation that one of these oil rigs could move in and move out in a very short period of time to move somewhere else and set up operation. Basically , what it amounts to is putting case ons or small fittings to put in these different types of dryers, the storage facilities, different things there that it ' s all done out in the open. They don' t have a big manufacturing plant as such, and it seems to me like it is very much of a portable type thing that could be very easily moved to another area. Another thing that he stressed a -minute ago is the cost of this scrubber. Mr. Nix asked if they would buy this scrubber with the idea that they may still face problems on it , and they said yes. I wonder if we might also be more or less advised as to how much this facility puts through an hour, what the income of it is, whether it ' s a paid- for facility, something that you can ' t say, well , if you shut us down, you ' re going to break us. It could very well be that in several weeks period of time, they could move to another location , where -they would not bother this many people, they could continue their operation at very little expense. -70- MR. LARLSON: Thank you , _Bob. Well , I think we' ve spent -about enough time on this. I don't know why we've got two blooming things like this in one day, but boy that was something. We do have a couple of things here that do need to be taken care of , and it looks like to me that we 're going to have to ask for it to be tabled in the manner , so we can get some more information out of the State health Department before we can make any full evaluation of the whole situation. I know this much, that our planning staff has spent many hours on this, trying to evaluate everything and trying to put it all together and we are concerned. . .we are concerned. This Board here is ma-de up of people throughout this county, and we have a very high appreciation of this county, and a high outlook on this county, and we intend to keep it the No. 1 county in the state of Colorado, and that 's why we like to think things through and discuss it and really try to make a decision that is an educated decision, rather than just an educated guess. We' d like to study these situations and get this information out of the State Health Department before we go into the. . . MR. FORTNER: Mr. Chairman, what additional information do you want from the State Health Department? MR. CARLSON: Well , it says in here that you needed some more information from. . . input that you hadn' t had up to prior to this day. . . MR. HIATT: We got the input today, didn' t we? -71- MRS . NORTON: . . .testimony from both sides that was given today "inaudible" installation of the "inaudible" that was re- quired by the state, I believe, is that correct? MR. CARLSON: You think this covered all the matters that you wanted to have covered prior to now. MR. FORTNE-R: I don ' t know what additional information we ' re going to get? MR. BUCKLA : I ' d like to add something there. I ' ve never been out there, and I have some doubts in my mind as to this odor. I 'd want to be satisfied in my mind before I make a decision, as to where this odor is coming from. MRS. BRIDGEWATE-H: "inaudible" . The guy from the -Health _Depart- ment said that he, himself , wouldn 't want to live there. We have no choice. We are already there. Are you going to ask us to live with this for a while longer before they make a decision? MR. CARLSON: That 's what we're discussing right now, ma'am. MRS . BRIDGEWATER: Well , the -next point I want to make "inaudible" , that this plant hires 21 people. If you' ll read this article from the Keenesberg paper, it says it's mostly being run by machine. If this is true, how can we "inaudible" so many 'people "inaudible" . -72- MR. KIEFER: I wanted to ask the Chairman, if we do , say, table this, can we guarantee that the people would make a decision in two weeks. MRS. NORTON: You could take the matter under advisement , close the matter for further testimony and then render a decision on February 7. MR. KIEFER: I 'm just thinking of Frank, and I suppose myself , and I don ' t know who else might want to . . . I don ' t know, again , I 'm sorry to say that we ' re -trying to make determination. It ' s not that we don ' t accept where folks are, but there are two sides. I don' t know. I ' d like to at least raise that issue, and to ask others what they think about it . MR. SUCKLA: Well , the reason I said that . When they said there was a burning pile of manure , that I know what burning manure smells like, and, therefore, I feel that maybe some of this could have been coming from the burning manure. NOT IDENTIFIABLE: That was two months ; -the operation was two years, sir. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : We've smelled it for -two years . "Inauduble. " MR. CARLSON: Take it lip in -a motion? Are you ready to make a determination today? -73- MR. NIX: Yep. I am, how about you. MR. ASHLEY: I ' d like to spend two more weeks . MR. NIX: Seems like the majority has it . I ' ll go along with it , but only for two weeks . We 've had this for six months or more. I think these people are entitled to a determination. MR. ASHLEY: I 'd like to have this motion made, so there will be no more discussion on it, "inaudible" hearing, "inaudible" decision, yes or no. MR. CARLSON: Okay. MR. IZARLENGO : Gentlemen, before you adjourn, or close the hearing to any further discussion, may I just make a record, briefly. In fairness to the Commission, I counted 616 names on the petition , which was presented, and of those I count 27 names in Greeley or Keenesberg area. 1 just want to call that to your attention. But we object to the petition presented in opposition. For several reasons . First of all , it 's confused because some people wrote yes and some people wrote no. I don ' t know what that 's supposed to mean. But more than that , it 's too remote from the standpoint of time. We also reject to any statements made today by those in opposition, which were based upon eonjec- tion and speculation that the smell must be elsewhere. Also, I call your attention to the fact that this is an application by Rolanda Feeds , Inc. , who was incorporated less than a year -74- or just about a year ago , and I think any testimony about what people experienced in the area prior to that time is immaterial . Also, some o1 the comments -made, I think that this Beard can well consider that after the time and effort that was spent , and the investment made, since last June to correct the diffi- culties out there, that the odor and the other problems certainly can ' t be as bad today as they were last June. It isn 't even logical . More than that , you 're represented by a very competent council . You have the authority to grant the permit, as you well know, under your regulations , and we do thank you for your kind attention to the hearing today. Will you be requiring our further appearance, or will you simply make a decision -and render it by mail to us? MR. CARLSON: Your appearance will not be. . . MRS. NORTON: The motion is to close the hearing from all further testimony and render a decision on -February 7 at the next Planning Commission meeting. MR. ZARLENGO : Okay, thank you. But no appearance is required, right? MR. CARLSON: No . MRS. NORTON: I believe Mr. Ashley made that motion. MR. CARLSON: Mr. Ashley made that motion. . . -75- MR. KIEFER: Oh, I 'm sorry. I ' ll second it . MR. CARLSON: It ' s been moved and seconded it that we close this to all further input , and it ' ll be decided en February 7 in a closed session. MRS. NORTON: No , no , no. MR. CARLSON: Well , we can 't have any -more input , anyway. MRS . BRRIDGEWATER: I thought you wanted more input. MR. CARLSON: I don ' t . MRS. NORTON: That was the purpose of today 's hearing. NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Weal , they said they could. . . NOT IDENTIFIABLE : But the people on this Planning staff said they didn' t have enough input . NOT IDENTIFIABLE : That 's xight . NOT IDENTIFIABLE : Now you say you don' t want any more input . MR. CARLSON: I was wrong in making that statement , because down in here, they did have the input they wanted. All they wanted for _us to do was make sure that we knew what was going on , and -76- the input that we got today from the Health -Department was the input that they were looking for, and they've 'lone it today, right? MR. HIATT: Plus the input from today' s hearing, and. . . MR. KIEFER: And the residents . MR. CARLSON: Okay, there' s been a motion and a second. Any further discussion. No further discussion. Shirley, poll the Commission, please . MRS. PHILLIPS : Mr. Carlson? MR. CARLSON: Yes. MRS. PHILLIPS : Mr. Nix? MR. NIX: Reluctantly, yes. l '=1 like to vote on it now. MRS . PHILLIPS : Mr. Ashley? MR. ASHLEY: YPS. MRS . PHILLIPS : Mr. Suckla? MR. SUCKLA : Yes. _77_ MRS. PHILLIPS: Mr . Kiefer? MR. KIEFER: Yes . MRS. PHILLIPS : Mr. Hiatt? MR. HIATT: Ycs ; MRS. -PHILLIPS : Mrs . White? MRS. WHITE : Yes. MR. CARLSON: Okay, thank you everybody for your input , and "inaudible" -thank you very much. MEETING OF FEBRUARY 7 , 1978 MR. CARLSON: Okay, I guess it ' s time to get our meeting started and call our meeting to order. Commission members , you were mailed the minutes of the last meeting , and what is your pleasure on those minutes? MR. NIX: Mr. Chairman , I move that the minutes be approved as submitted. MR. CARLSON: It ' s been moved and seconded that the minutes be approved as submitted. All in favor, say I . ALL : I . MR. CARLSON : Opposed, no . Motion ' s carried. We have an agenda before us today of about 7 or 8 items , and ft ' s going to take some time, we know that , but there ' s a lot of you peoplr out there that probably don ' t realize that this Commission is a non-paid job . The last couple or three weeks it wasn ' t very profitable. Our first thing on our agenda today is SUP 335 : 77 : 9, Rolanda Feeds , Inc. , chicken manure dehydration facility , the east half and northeast quarter of Section 31 , Township 2 North, Range 64 West . The location is 3 miles east and a mile and a half north of Hudson. Our last meeting that we had three weeks ago , I guess , we closed to any more testimony or any more feelings on this item, so at this time, we want the staff ' s recommendations and we ' ll go from there. MR. McWILLIAMS : Mr . Chairman , before we make those recom- -2- mendations , possibly you might want to make an announcement about the Peterson-Alexander sub-division has been dropped from the agenda , in case there is anyone waiting for that item. MR. CARLSON: Okay, we ' ll make that announcement . For the Peterson-Alexander sub-division . . . that item has been dropped from today ' s agenda , so it you' re here in that regard, you need not waste your time and be here for the rest of the day, and you may be one of the lucky ones that get to go home . MR . McWILLIAMS : Mr . Chairman , you might also indicate that has been scheduled for the February 21 Planning Commission meeting . MR. CARLSON : It ' s scheduled for our next meeting the 21st of February. MR . McWILLIAMS : See attached Staff Comments , dated February 7 , 1978. MR. CARLSON: Any further comments . MR. McWILLIAMS : That ' s it . MR. CARLSON : Okay , Commission miembers , you have a chance to state , and we ' d like to have a motion before the floor. • MR. NIX: Mr. Chairman , I believe the staff of the -3- Planning Commission has most ably and amply recognized the problem involved and, therefore, I would move that we follow -their recommendations and recommend denial -to the County Commissioners . MRS . WHITE : I second it . MR. CARLSON: It ' s been moved and seconded that we recommend to the County Commissioners the denial of the Rolanda Feeds , Inc. Any further discussion? If no further discussion , we need to ask for a vote on it , but if you were not here at the last meeting, you may abstain . If not , we would prefer that you vote. Shirley , would you poll the Commission , please. MRS . PHILLIPS : Mr. Carlson? MR. CARLSON: Yes . MRS . PHILLIPS : Mr. Nix? MR. NIX : Yes. MRS . PHILLIPS : Mr. Suckla? MR. SUCKLA : No . MRS . PHILLIPS : Mr. Kiefer? MR. KIEFER: Yes. -4- MRS . PHILLIPS : Mr . Hiatt? MR. HIATT: Yes . MRS. PHILLIPS : Mrs . Yost? MRS . YOST : Abstained . MRS . PHILLIPS : Mrs . Kountz? MRS. KOUNTZ : Abstained. MRS . PHILLIPS : Mrs . White? MRS . WHITE : Yes. MR. CARLSON: Okay , with the vote of 5-1 yes, it will be forwarded to the Commissioners to be denied, so I don ' t think we need to make any other statement at this time, and we ' ll leave it at that . Hello